UPCI Standards Questions

[PostTribber]

'koom-byah .... koom-byah .... sniffin regular octane on a warm sunny day .... koom-byah .... koom-byah!!'

[WildCard~]

Originally Posted by jean

I have never been mistaken for a man. My husband knew I was a female in the beginning.
I don't know one lady friend of mine that has been ever mistaken for a man because she had slacks on.
Have you noticed, Women aren't built like men. We shop for our clothing in the ladies department.
Don't believe everything you think.

jean

Same here, my hubby knew I was all woman....

[WildCard~]

Originally Posted by jean

Spoken like a true man of God.
Are you aware of this passage, 1 Jn.4:10-11 "Love one another." verse 19--21 "Whoever loves God must also love his brother"

Do you really believe that oneness pentecostals are the only believers that are going to be saved??? That would mean Christ died on the cross for one Church. Do you really believe this?
Is this what your leaders teach you? I sincerely hope not.

jean

Hi Jean~ I'm a she... I'm an ex-UPCIer....I no longer believe those things, I was set free~

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by WildCard~

Hi Jean~ I'm a she... I'm an ex-UPCIer....I no longer believe those things, I was set free~

Thank you for the update.
Very happy you left upci. I have two dear friends that are still involved with this church.

In my opinion their pastor will have to answer for teaching false doctrine.
The fact they deny the Trinity is bad enough but they also deny the sufficiency of Jesus to save them. they rely on works. ie, 'speaking in tongues

Lets pray for them,
jeanm'

[JE]

Originally Posted by jade84116

What do you think of the UPCI's holiness standards? What do you think of their refusal to serve in the military or politics?

Why is it then that whenever oneness pentecostals teach about “holiness” they teach about rules for the way you look? “Don’t wear jewelry, don’t wear make-up, women can’t wear pants, men can’t wear a beard.” Some even teach that if women wear open toed shoes they will go to hell! I can’t find any scriptures in the Bible that support these claims. The ones used to support these claims are used out of context, or are misread. In fact, Ezekiel 16 shows that God does not have a problem with jewelry. Peter said, (my paraphrase) “let your beauty before God not be your outward appearance”; he did not say, “don’t wear gold.” If he did, then we shouldn’t be wearing clothes either (1 Peter 3:3). In the same light, Leviticus 19:27 says that men MUST wear a beard. When did God change his mind on that and say, “You can’t serve me if you have a beard?” The only proof for most of the “holiness standards” is misused scriptures. While we are on the subject (which so many are curious about), oneness pentecostals use a scripture from the mosaic law (Deut 22:5) to say that women should not wear pants, however they ignore another scripture from the mosaic law (Lev 19:27) that requires men to wear a beard. The point of Deuteronomy 22:5 is to ensure definition between the sexes; men should look like men and women vice versa. Why? Both the old and new covenants were representative of marriage contracts. The man has a specific role in the marriage contract, which is representative of God, and the woman has specific roles likewise which are representative of the church. If the lines between the sexes are blurred, the definitions of the contracts between God and humanity become blurred. Therefore God gave commandments to ensure we don’t blur these lines. What could be more manlike than keeping the beard God gave you?
In Colossians 2:20-23 Paul asks (my paraphrase), “If you really believe that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, then why do you follow man-made rules that you think make you look holy; but they really have nothing to do with true holiness?”
1st John 5:3 says, “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.” What are the commandments of God? The ten commandments? Jesus said that the greatest commandment was “HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." If you look at the ten commandments, you will see that the first five have to do with how to love God, and the second five have to do with loving others; which is exactly what Jesus said. Read the 15th Chapter of John. That is as good a summation as I can find. Do you really love God? Do you really love your fellow man? If not, are you really being holy like God wants? AND, does a dress code in any way make you more holy (according to scripture)?

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by JE

Why is it then that whenever oneness pentecostals teach about “holiness” they teach about rules for the way you look? “Don’t wear jewelry, don’t wear make-up, women can’t wear pants, men can’t wear a beard.” Some even teach that if women wear open toed shoes they will go to hell! I can’t find any scriptures in the Bible that support these claims. The ones used to support these claims are used out of context, or are misread. In fact, Ezekiel 16 shows that God does not have a problem with jewelry. Peter said, (my paraphrase) “let your beauty before God not be your outward appearance”; he did not say, “don’t wear gold.” If he did, then we shouldn’t be wearing clothes either (1 Peter 3:3). In the same light, Leviticus 19:27 says that men MUST wear a beard. When did God change his mind on that and say, “You can’t serve me if you have a beard?” The only proof for most of the “holiness standards” is misused scriptures. While we are on the subject (which so many are curious about), oneness pentecostals use a scripture from the mosaic law (Deut 22:5) to say that women should not wear pants, however they ignore another scripture from the mosaic law (Lev 19:27) that requires men to wear a beard. The point of Deuteronomy 22:5 is to ensure definition between the sexes; men should look like men and women vice versa. Why? Both the old and new covenants were representative of marriage contracts. The man has a specific role in the marriage contract, which is representative of God, and the woman has specific roles likewise which are representative of the church. If the lines between the sexes are blurred, the definitions of the contracts between God and humanity become blurred. Therefore God gave commandments to ensure we don’t blur these lines. What could be more manlike than keeping the beard God gave you?
In Colossians 2:20-23 Paul asks (my paraphrase), “If you really believe that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, then why do you follow man-made rules that you think make you look holy; but they really have nothing to do with true holiness?”
1st John 5:3 says, “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.” What are the commandments of God? The ten commandments? Jesus said that the greatest commandment was “HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." If you look at the ten commandments, you will see that the first five have to do with how to love God, and the second five have to do with loving others; which is exactly what Jesus said. Read the 15th Chapter of John. That is as good a summation as I can find. Do you really love God? Do you really love your fellow man? If not, are you really being holy like God wants? AND, does a dress code in any way make you more holy (according to scripture)?

JE,
Oneness definition of holiness has nothing to do with the way a person dresses.
Christian holiness comes from the heart.
If oneness ladies are foolish enough to have a man tell them how to dress they are weak minded. Dress codes are out of date.
There is nothing wrong with a lady weaing slacks. It's the custom today. Styles change, otherwise we would all be wearing robes and sandles.

The Bible speaks of modesty, which I agree with.
Amish choose to dress alike, certain catholics dress differently as well.
I'm not going to put myself in the position of judging anyone.
Why is this such a devisive issue?

jeanm

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by John Carr

I am not on another site, I am on this one.

So why is it Trinity women do not abide by Biblical standards of Holiness?

They cut their haid and dishonor themselves and their husband. see 1 Cor.11:1-16
They paint their face with paints and are not shamefaced as 1 TIM 2:9 states
They wear jewlery and deny the Bible and what it stated for N.T. Christians 1 Tim.2;9 and 1 Pet 3;3.
They wear pants and jeans and are considered a abomination by the Lord from DT. 22:5
Many pierce their bodies and wear tatoos and dye their hair and drink and smoke and cuss adn take drugs, so why is this so prevalent in the Trinity (supposed Christian) Cult?

Oneness women don't do these things and lay them down and are cleaned by the Spirit of God and his word in them.

carr,
Your definitions of the above scriptures are wrong.
It's your opinion.
Pants or jeans that some ladies choose to wear today are not armor.

jeanm

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by John Carr

Jean, God does look on the inward, but he also expects his real saints dressed and looking different on the outward when the inward is clean.
Oneness don't dress like the trinitarians and the world.
Women don't wear makeup and jewelery nor cut their hair and dress immodestly.
Neither men or women drink or curse, or smoke and men are to not have long hair or dress immodest and act or look feminine.

JC

carr,
I'm aware how oneness are required to dress. It has nothing to do with holiness, but a lot to do with conrol.
The Lord looks on the heart of man, not their outside appearance.
I have never met a drunken christian. Also, I don't know of any friend of mine whose vocabulary is so limited that would would have to interject profanity to make a point. I don't know one friend of mine that even smokes.
Where do you get you ideas from? Are you judging others?
See Mt.7:1-5 it may curb your judging attiitude.

God bless,
jeanm

Rom.2:11 "For God does not show favortism."

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by John Carr

Those Biblical scriptures tear you up don't they.
No lies, that is real Biblical truth.
Women who dress in pants are a abomination. Theya re paiting their faces and are not shamefaced, they wear jewelery adn immodest clothing against 1 tim 2:9 and 1 pet.3:3

Put up some links to women in your church, or organization if you don't have a web site.
I bet we sin plenty of sin and corruption.

carr,
you are reading into these passages with a 51 A.D. atitude
Jewish women in that culture were treated as second class citizens.
You are also describing dress codes which your church is foolish enough to pass unto a third millenium woman.
As long as your not doing this with a judgmental attitude , you ways are your own.
What matters is... do you view this as a salvation issue? Dress codes that is.

God bless,
jeanm

[kentuckypreacher]

What are "trinity women"?

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by jade84116

What do you think of the UPCI's holiness standards? What do you think of their refusal to serve in the military or politics?

Holiness standards? There is nothing holy in the way they dress.
They choose to dress differently from others . I find that exeptable for them, but God looks at the heart of man, not the outside appearance.
Pride is another problem to watch for.

jeanmarie

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by John Carr

Jean, God does look on the inward, but he also expects his real saints dressed and looking different on the outward when the inward is clean.
Oneness don't dress like the trinitarians and the world.
Women don't wear makeup and jewelery nor cut their hair and dress immodestly.
Neither men or women drink or curse, or smoke and men are to not have long hair or dress immodest and act or look feminine.

JC

john,
I realize there are ladies and young people that do dress as you have discribed.
The length of hair has nothing to do with salvation. 1Cor.11 was the culture of dress in the early church. We don't wear robes and sandles today.
Smoking of course is bad for a persons health. Drunkeness is a sin.
Jesus performed His first miracle at Cana by changing the water into wine .
Having a glass of wine is not a sin.
Dressing immodestly is also not to be done.
We as Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit. Some folks haven't gotten that far yet.
Jesus does not show favortism. Rom.2:11 he loves everyone. Even sinners.
And non-Pentecostals.

God bless you,
jeanm