One thing I remember Walter mentioning on several occaisions...

[johnd]

...how the defense of the faith and the ministry of the saints is often obstructed by believers. Believers. People who are called to humbly serve the Master but whose lack of humility hinders the Gospel as much or moreso than the unbelieving world around us does.

I do not make that statement rashly nor impulsively. An obstructed witness or defense of truth is all the more evil when one who is commissioned and charged by God to witness and defend truth is the cause of the obstruction. And make no mistake about it... only the devil is served when the Gospel in muzzled or imprisoned in church walls.

This obstruction by believers comes in basically three forms. One form is self will (selfishness) trying to place one's will or interpretation or benefits on par with God or the Gospel message. Another form is profiteering. And the third form is cowardice.

Believers who suffer from cowardice fear drawing attention to themselves or are afraid to rock the boat under any circumstance. And getting along with everyone all the time becomes their definition of being loving.

Those who are deceived by the prospects of wealth hold truth for ransom. Oh they may freely give at first, but eventually the pleas for money begin or the noose gets tightened more and more as contributors get nickel and dimed to death. Those who levy taxes on believers in the form of tithes and offerings... for things not so much about the Gospel as they are for lining peoples' pockets or (ego) "building programs" all alleged "in the name of the Lord."

Then there are the self-willed believers who sometimes directly but most of the time surreptitiously... so much so even they themselves are blind to it... try to impose their will on others including God. This can be done through basing the authority of interpretation or of establishing doctrine (and almost always in tradition building).

This condition is what I call the best of both worlds. A mere mortal man (or a group of them) can make all the rules and call all the shots essentially as gods while claiming to believe in a God who they define and keep on a leash and who they blame when things go wrong.

In one sense, all people are capable of this. And it is unsettling. Most of us impose our will on God some of us without meaning to. But when we hold truth for ransom for any reason (personal opinion, profit, tradition) we are doing precisely this.

I remember the old Southern Baptist pocket witnessing tract which illustrated this in a couple of drawings. One was the picture of a chair called the throne. And it asked the question... who sits on the throne in your life? God? or You?

Another illustration was the image of a train. God is the engine and you are the caboose. Which should be pulling the train?

[johnd]

Today I permanently severed the ties with another Christian message board for censuring the Gospel and the defense of the faith. It has been a rocky relationship because like my mentor Walter Martin I am not adept in tact especially in as serious a matter as warning the world that the spiritual bridge ahead is out.

I never met Walter, but I have thoroughly benefited from his legacy. I spoke to him on air (the old call in Bible Answer Man broadcast in 1986). He answered my question (which I can't even remember today what the question was) and said God bless you. I admired the man listening to his broadcast but did not study the Bible from that legacy until about 7 years later.

I rushed through my work every Friday in those days to get home to tape the weekly taped message from Walter that CRI aired on radio in those days... I listened to the tapes over and over as I copied them to send to family members or make better tapes than the "capture" tapes I had (cassettes were of lengths on each side that were not very user friendly).

I agree that forums (message boards) such as these must maintain civility and put down abuse and vulgarity at once. And I would include in that list showing the door to those who do not believe the core beliefs of a given forum... especially when their behavior proves they are only there to harass, stir up, cast doubts and fears, or recruit.

I consider myself a kind of sheep dog that barks and growls and shows fangs when a wolf endangers the flock. Over the years on the Christian Forums message board I was often taken to task by the moderators of the board for my having been unloving towards the wolves. And the censure was upheld on appeal. Their determination was that control must be maintained.

And I blinked... not believing the computer screen in my own study den. I was not concerned with control. Only defending the truth when it was assaulted. But the appearance was (they feared) that they lost control of me and the WAY I called a liar a liar, etc.

I simply pointed out the untruth proved it by scripture and quoting their duplicity in their own statements and said they were not telling the truth. But that was not loving... that was not can we all just get along...

At Christian Forums all a cultist, atheist, false religionist or whoever opposes Jesus Christ has to do to get a believer's post removed and the believer censured is play the broken paw act with the moderators... I am offended this, or he was unloving that... and truth is completely obstructed by board rules.

They are rules alright... on how to best make Satan laugh...

Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Believers do not realize this. They do not see how human reason gets in the way of truth or obstructs it completely. They get it in their head that this or that is "fair play" when they draft rules they are unwilling to bend (placing the rules above the truth or even above God). "Politics" is another name for it. And it is what got the Lord of glory and innocence nailed to a cross when a murderer was set free in his stead for political expediency.

Few people or ministries want to face much less teach how human reason is founded and seeded in satanism.

Matthew 16:23
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

John 8:40-44
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And this is why believers obstruct truth. They believe in Jesus. They just don't want to submit to him. And they use human reason / humanism to rationalize their duplicity. Sometimes (as is the case at Christian Forums) this duplicity gets into the moderation and administration and ownership of those who "with the best of intentions" sell the Gospel down the river in the name of their rules... and use humanism to justify it.

[johnd]

I just added Bible Database forum to the list of my former message board pit stops... There they want to molly coddle Partial Preterists
citing Church tradition for their toleration of this partial form of anti-prophetic doctrine.

They do not tolerate Full Preterism because it disagrees with that same Church tradition. I drew their censure for refuting all forms of Preterism with scripture (I didn't even get warmed up before they pulled my posts and wagged their finger at me).

I inquired of the administration of Bible Database this was their reply:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

John,
What you've personally have found to be truth isn't necessarily the same found by all other board members in their study of eschatology.

In regards to eschatology, our board welcomes views from many perspectives within Protestantism to be discussed. (Pretrib, Midtrib, PreWrath, Postrib,Premill, Amill, Postmill, Dispensational, Non-dispensational, etc...)

Our board stance is that full-Preterism is a doctrine that runs counter to the historic Christian faith and is not allowed to be taught or advanced.

Our board stance on Partial-Preterism, however, allows its adherence and discussion among members.

What you'll need to decide, is if you can accept and live with this approach, and choose not to villify or put Partial-Preterism on a witchhunt or not.

Adherents to that view are allowed to share their understand without fear of retribution.

Your early posts towards Partial-Preterism come across pretty condescending and condemning and are just too antagonistic and lack the patience, grace, and charity toward that interpretation that we need you to have.

We can share why we disagree with any view, but we gotta do so thoughtfully (of others who might hold that view) and with care and gentleness.

A good rule-of-thumb scripture:
II Timothy 2:24 "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves"

Our board won't become a platform against Partial-Preterism or any other viewpoint demonization.

if you can agree to this and conform to our board guidelines then we thank you welcome you to continue...
If not, we wish you well if you choose to depart and move on.

Can you agree to follow our board policy regarding End Time views?

To which I replied:

Originally Posted by JohnD

1 Thessalonians 5:2121 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (test) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Acts 17:11
11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Full Preterism is not tolerated because it goes against tradition. I have shown (and could show by many more passages how both Full and Partial Preterism are proven false by the scriptures... and that they are anti-prophetic...

You and this board offered no scripture whatsoever as to why you allow partial preterism and disallow full preterism, citing only tradition. Then you cite a verse out of context ignoring all the imprecatory passages regarding wolves in sheeps clothing and false doctrines (i.e. doctrines of demons) etc.

If this board determines once and for all it will be only Bible based forsaking the traditions of mere men... email me... only then will I be willing to post biblical truth here.

Until then...

[johnd]

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible.

John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word IS truth.

Psalm 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

The three major divisions of scripture are:

The Law (Torah)
The Prophets (Neviim)
The Writings (Ketuvim)

All three contain warnings not to add to or take away from the scriptures.

The Law:

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

The Prophets:

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Writings:

Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Along comes uppity, feeble minded, hind sighted mortal man adding to and taking away from the word of God with traditions and opinions...

Mark 7:13
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

When, Oh Lord, will we ever learn?