Does "Concern" Excuse Rudeness? [Archive] - Walter Martin Ministries Forum

Snow Patrol

08-13-2010, 11:05 AM

They don't like us quietly knocking on does out of concern…bullhorns would be received very well don't you think? Not!

That is exactly what I was thinking. Could you imagine the outpouring of hostility if even one set of missionaries were going around neighborhoods with bullhorns and yelling insulting things at Christian gatherings? Of course, it really would be out of love for those people.:rolleyes:

Father_JD

08-13-2010, 01:52 PM

Libby

08-13-2010, 10:59 PM

In another thread a poster seemed to be (actually he was) excusing Preachers with bullhorns at Mormon events. His quote… "God bless them for caring enough about your soul."

When does "concern" excuse rudeness?

I would say almost never....but, I wouldn't say absolutely never.

The guys out there with the bullhorns...if they really are there just to disrupt, because they think all LDS are going to hell, I don't really see the point. If you think they're going to hell, just leave them in peace. Right?

We are commanded to share the gospel and I think anyone who isn't doing that, isn't doing what Christ asked.

Richard

08-13-2010, 11:13 PM

I would say almost never....but, I wouldn't say absolutely never.

The guys out there with the bullhorns...if they really are there just to disrupt, because they thing all LDS are going to hell, I don't really see the point. If you think they're going to hell, just leave them in peace. Right?

We are commanded to share the gospel and I think anyone who isn't doing that, isn't doing what Christ asked.

I agree, do the Evangelicals have to share our Temple Ordinances, I find this more then rude, it's despicable. Mocking in some sense, not really educating people since we all know that not many lurkers or visitors frequent CARM or WM. So we really know why EV's do it.

Libby

08-13-2010, 11:33 PM

I agree, do the Evangelicals have to share our Temple Ordinances, I find this more then rude, it's despicable. Mocking in some sense, not really educating people since we all know that not many lurkers or visitors frequent CARM or WM. So we really know why EV's do it.

If people are trying to reach Latter-day Saints (sincerely)...sharing Temple ordinances would probably be one of the worst ways to go about reaching them. In most cases it would be silly, anyway, if the person they're ministering to has already been through the temple.

But, teaching a cl*** on Mormonism to Christians? I could understand revealing the temple rituals, in that case. I think showing the garments is just wrong, though....mostly because it's underwear and private by virtue of what it is(regardless of the meaning). I would draw the line there. I know some here would probably disagree with me...

teenapenny

08-14-2010, 06:41 AM

If people are trying to reach Latter-day Saints (sincerely)...sharing Temple ordinances would probably be one of the worst ways to go about reaching them. In most cases it would be silly, anyway, if the person they're ministering to has already been through the temple.

But, teaching a cl*** on Mormonism to Christians? I could understand revealing the temple rituals, in that case. I think showing the garments is just wrong, though....mostly because it's underwear and private by virtue of what it is(regardless of the meaning). I would draw the line there. I know some here would probably disagree with me...
Growing up in the church, the Temple ordinances and garments were a great big secret, and many members only found about about them when they got to the temple. I know some members who wanted to walk out the minute it was revealed to them, but were too embarr***ed to do anything but continue on. That is why I feel a cl*** on Mormonism to Christians should include both temple rituals and garments, so that if any consider joining they know all there is to know.

Richard

08-14-2010, 09:43 AM

If people are trying to reach Latter-day Saints (sincerely)...sharing Temple ordinances would probably be one of the worst ways to go about reaching them. In most cases it would be silly, anyway, if the person they're ministering to has already been through the temple.

But, teaching a cl*** on Mormonism to Christians? I could understand revealing the temple rituals, in that case. I think showing the garments is just wrong, though....mostly because it's underwear and private by virtue of what it is(regardless of the meaning). I would draw the line there. I know some here would probably disagree with me...

Yep, I have been mocked by a Pastor of another Church who waved them in my face and embarr***ed me in front of his own members, it was a set up and I fell for it by being invited by a neighbor friend trying to witness to me.

Richard

08-14-2010, 09:46 AM

Growing up in the church, the Temple ordinances and garments were a great big secret, and many members only found about about them when they got to the temple. I know some members who wanted to walk out the minute it was revealed to them, but were too embarr***ed to do anything but continue on. That is why I feel a cl*** on Mormonism to Christians should include both temple rituals and garments, so that if any consider joining they know all there is to know.

Hate to disagree with you, but they are not now a big secret, "Big Love" on television is very revealing.

Big Love is an American television drama on HBO about a fictional fundamentalist Mormon family in Utah who practice polygamy

RJ.

Father_JD

08-14-2010, 10:08 AM

Ain't Bill Paxton grand? :D

John T

08-14-2010, 10:49 AM

In another thread a poster seemed to be (actually he was) excusing Preachers with bullhorns at Mormon events. His quote… "God bless them for caring enough about your soul." When does "concern" excuse rudeness?

You may be conflating several posters in that statement, and one of them is me, Marvin.

However, the use of bullhorns does not automatically create rudeness, and that is where you greatly err, and create a logical error.

While I do not agree with the use of bull horns as an effective tool of evangelism at the Pageant, it is NOT being rude to use them AFTER the pageant as people are crossing the street, going to the parking fields.

It would be indeed rude if the bull horns were used DURING the pageant in an effort to disrupt the staged production. In fact they could be cited for disturbing the peace if that were the case.

You may personally believe that it is rude to address a crowd with a bull horn, I do not. As long as the user does not accost or single out to shame a person in public, I believe that it is an acceptable, and protected exercise in free speech

teenapenny

08-14-2010, 10:59 AM

Hate to disagree with you, but they are not now a big secret, "Big Love" on television is very revealing.

Big Love is an American television drama on HBO about a fictional fundamentalist Mormon family in Utah who practice polygamy

RJ.

When I grew up in the Mormon church there was no television and it was all a big secret. Television has changed a lot of things.

Russianwolfe

08-14-2010, 11:04 AM

You may be conflating several posters in that statement, and one of them is me, Marvin.

You got that wrong, John T. I am not Pa Pa. And Pa Pa is not me. I am Russianwolfe or Marvin but never anybody else. I do not have any other names nor do I sign on under any other names. Or maybe, since it is not clear, you are claiming to be me? Sad state of affairs when you claim to be me. It would not be your best choice.

Marvin

Russianwolfe

08-14-2010, 11:13 AM

When I grew up in the Mormon church there was no television and it was all a big secret. Television has changed a lot of things.

Either you were of a fundamentalist sect or you are over 70 or 80 years old. And anybody who has read Mormonism: Myth or Reality will tell you, the garments were no secret as well as many other things.

Having joined the church more recently, I knew about the garments several years before I went to the temple. And my mother, who regretted her decision to allow me to join the church, was quick to point out anything that she thought would separate me from the church.

The only way these things were a secret was for decent people to ignore the yellow journalism that was quick to publish and broadcast anything they thought they could spin to their advantage.

Sorry, you didn't pay attention until you decided the church wasn't worth your time. Most member are too busy help others, doing their duty, and taking care of their families to bother with all the dissenting voices that clog the public media.

Marvin

teenapenny

08-14-2010, 11:30 AM

[QUOTE=Russianwolfe;65738]Either you were of a fundamentalist sect or you are over 70 or 80 years old. And anybody who has read Mormonism: Myth or Reality will tell you, the garments were no secret as well as many other things.

Having joined the church more recently, I knew about the garments several years before I went to the temple. And my mother, who regretted her decision to allow me to join the church, was quick to point out anything that she thought would separate me from the church.

The only way these things were a secret was for decent people to ignore the yellow journalism that was quick to publish and broadcast anything they thought they could spin to their advantage.

Sorry, you didn't pay attention until you decided the church wasn't worth your time. Most member are too busy help others, doing their duty, and taking care of their families to bother with all the dissenting voices that clog the public media.

Marvin[/QUO
Yes, I am over 70. My father's family came across the plains with the second hand cart division to SLC and some settled in Salt Lake and others went up to Idaho. I have pictures of some of my family along with George Q Cannon in prison for polygamy. So you can see that I know what I am talking about. You are probably the most unkind person I have ever met, and
telling me that I did not pay attention until I decided the church wasn't worth my time was a very UnChristian thing to say. But people like you are part of the reason I left.

Pa Pa

08-14-2010, 01:34 PM

You may be conflating several posters in that statement, and one of them is me, Marvin.

However, the use of bullhorns does not automatically create rudeness, and that is where you greatly err, and create a logical error.

While I do not agree with the use of bull horns as an effective tool of evangelism at the Pageant, it is NOT being rude to use them AFTER the pageant as people are crossing the street, going to the parking fields.

It would be indeed rude if the bull horns were used DURING the pageant in an effort to disrupt the staged production. In fact they could be cited for disturbing the peace if that were the case.

You may personally believe that it is rude to address a crowd with a bull horn, I do not. As long as the user does not accost or single out to shame a person in public, I believe that it is an acceptable, and protected exercise in free speech

I think it I despicable for anyone to bother anyone else who is at what they consider a religious gathering. Inexcusable…rude…uncouth…sad…should I go on?

Richard

08-14-2010, 02:50 PM

When I grew up in the Mormon church there was no television and it was all a big secret. Television has changed a lot of things.

I think if you go back through history and I believe it was the first anti-book ever written, Mormonism Unveiled, was published by Eber D. Howe in 1834.

Of fifty-six anti-Mormon novels published during the nineteenth century, four established a pattern for all of the others. The four were sensational, erotic novels focusing on the supposed plight of women in the Church. Alfreda Eva Bell's Boadicea, the Mormon Wife (1855) depicted Church members as "murderers, forgers, swindlers, gamblers, thieves, and adulterers!" Orvilla S. Belisle's Mormonism Unveiled (1855) had the heroine hopelessly trapped in a Mormon harem. Metta Victoria Fuller Victor's Mormon Wives (1856) characterized Mormons as a "horrid" and deluded people. Maria Ward (a pseudonym) depicted Mormon torture of women in Female Life Among the Mormons (1855). Authors wrote lurid p***ages designed to sell the publications. Excommunicated members tried to capitalize on their former membership in the Church to sell their stories. Fanny Stenhouse's Tell It All (1874) and Ann Eliza Young's Wife No. 19 (1876) sensationalized the polygamy theme. William Hickman sold his story to John H. Beadle, who exaggerated the danite myth in Brigham's Destroying Angel (1872) to caricature Mormons as a violent people. Anti-Mormon Publications

by William O. Nelson

Now comes another series of Big Love, and despite earlier ***urances from HBO it once again blurs the distinctions between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the show’s fictional non-Mormon characters and their practices. Such things say much more about the insensitivities of writers, producers and TV executives than they say about Latter-day Saints.

If the Church allowed critics and opponents to choose the ground on which its battles are fought, it would risk being distracted from the focus and mission it has pursued successfully for nearly 180 years. Instead, the Church itself will determine its own course as it continues to preach the restored gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world.

akaSeerone

08-14-2010, 03:04 PM

I think if you go back through history and I believe it was the first anti-book ever written, Mormonism Unveiled, was published by Eber D. Howe in 1834.

Of fifty-six anti-Mormon novels published during the nineteenth century, four established a pattern for all of the others. The four were sensational, erotic novels focusing on the supposed plight of women in the Church. Alfreda Eva Bell's Boadicea, the Mormon Wife (1855) depicted Church members as "murderers, forgers, swindlers, gamblers, thieves, and adulterers!" Orvilla S. Belisle's Mormonism Unveiled (1855) had the heroine hopelessly trapped in a Mormon harem. Metta Victoria Fuller Victor's Mormon Wives (1856) characterized Mormons as a "horrid" and deluded people. Maria Ward (a pseudonym) depicted Mormon torture of women in Female Life Among the Mormons (1855). Authors wrote lurid p***ages designed to sell the publications. Excommunicated members tried to capitalize on their former membership in the Church to sell their stories. Fanny Stenhouse's Tell It All (1874) and Ann Eliza Young's Wife No. 19 (1876) sensationalized the polygamy theme. William Hickman sold his story to John H. Beadle, who exaggerated the danite myth in Brigham's Destroying Angel (1872) to caricature Mormons as a violent people. Anti-Mormon Publications

by William O. Nelson

Now comes another series of Big Love, and despite earlier ***urances from HBO it once again blurs the distinctions between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the show’s fictional non-Mormon characters and their practices. Such things say much more about the insensitivities of writers, producers and TV executives than they say about Latter-day Saints.

If the Church allowed critics and opponents to choose the ground on which its battles are fought, it would risk being distracted from the focus and mission it has pursued successfully for nearly 180 years. Instead, the Church itself will determine its own course as it continues to preach the restored gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world.I have to admit, it is hard to believe but you are good for something after all Richard......THANKS FOR THE LAUGH BUDDY :D Andy

Richard

08-14-2010, 03:11 PM

I have to admit, it is hard to believe but you are good for something after all Richard......THANKS FOR THE LAUGH BUDDY :D Andy

Hey good buddy, I love the way you shadow me around. Chuckle.

We Mormons are good at bringing laughter to others, Chuckle, chuckle. How's it going over at CARM, caught on to my new User Name yet?

Richard, your friend.

John T

08-14-2010, 05:56 PM

I think it I despicable for anyone to bother anyone else who is at what they consider a religious gathering. inexcusable…rude…uncouth…sad…should I go on?

Spare us!

You are en***led to your opinion, no matter how much in error you are.

Since we both have been there, we both know that the protesters are separated on to the other side of a busy two lane road going on a curve and up a small knoll. Between the two is a phalanx of mounted police, police on bikes, ambulances, and an unknown numbers of under cover officers.

If this were on Temple grounds (one is nearby), or interrupting the drama on the stage, I would agree. In essence, and in fact, this is no different than having protesters outside on the other side of the street of an abortion clinic.

Your argument is akin to supporting the abortion providers (just an ****ogy, not an accusation) who do things in their clinic on the other side of the street who could make similar arguments as you do.

So rant and rage all you wish, you may NOT like it, but it is NOT illegal, and it does NOT interrupt the drama of the Pageant, and it is entirely (about 1/4 mile) away from the Pageant itself. Therefore, you make a mountain out of a molehill.

BTW I will wait for your rant on MADB about this. OOPS! I see that you already made a rant there.

nrajeff

08-16-2010, 07:38 AM

Yes, I am over 70. My father's family came across the plains with the second hand cart division to SLC and some settled in Salt Lake and others went up to Idaho. I have pictures of some of my family along with George Q Cannon in prison for polygamy. So you can see that I know what I am talking about.
---That doesn't prove that you always know what you are talking about.

You are probably the most unkind person I have ever met, and
telling me that I did not pay attention until I decided the church wasn't worth my time was a very UnChristian thing to say
----But he didn't even use a MEGAPHONE to say it to you, so how can it have been rude or mean? If your Westboro-esque pals can say MEANER things to US at our religious gatherings, and NOT be mean or rude, then how can what Marvin quietly typed on his keyboard be worse than that?

But people like you are part of the reason I left
---Since it is true that no given church is right for everyone, you probably did us and yourself a favor by quitting. So thanks for that.

Pa Pa

08-16-2010, 09:54 AM

Interesting that he who defends such behavior will not commment in this thread.

Libby

08-16-2010, 10:13 PM

Either you were of a fundamentalist sect or you are over 70 or 80 years old. And anybody who has read Mormonism: Myth or Reality will tell you, the garments were no secret as well as many other things.

Having joined the church more recently, I knew about the garments several years before I went to the temple. And my mother, who regretted her decision to allow me to join the church, was quick to point out anything that she thought would separate me from the church.

The only way these things were a secret was for decent people to ignore the yellow journalism that was quick to publish and broadcast anything they thought they could spin to their advantage.

Sorry, you didn't pay attention until you decided the church wasn't worth your time. Most member are too busy help others, doing their duty, and taking care of their families to bother with all the dissenting voices that clog the public media.

Marvin

I must have been really sheltered or something, because I really didn't know about the garments until I was getting ready to go to Temple.

I'm sure I could have found that information online or somewhere, but I didn't know to even inquire. They may not be "secret", but it's not like LDS talk about them all the time, either.

nrajeff

08-17-2010, 01:10 PM

I must have been really sheltered or something, because I really didn't know about the garments until I was getting ready to go to Temple. I'm sure I could have found that information online or somewhere, but I didn't know to even inquire. They may not be "secret", but it's not like LDS talk about them all the time, either.

--They are not mentioned at all in Gospel Principles, the book INTENDED for investigors and new members?

Libby

08-17-2010, 01:28 PM

--They are not mentioned at all in Gospel Principles, the book INTENDED for investigors and new members?

I never saw a Gospel Principles manual until after I joined the church. Garments are in there? I don't recall that. (Not saying you are wrong...just don't remember anything about that)..

The studies I did with the missionaries were almost exclusively out of the Book of Mormon. Probably, because I was in the process of reading it for the first time and had questions about it.

Honestly, Jeff, there was no mention of garments, that I recall...not until I started the Temple cl***es.

Pa Pa

08-18-2010, 07:34 AM

Spare us!

You are en***led to your opinion, no matter how much in error you are.

Since we both have been there,

Both of who?

Pa Pa

08-18-2010, 08:14 AM

BTW I will wait for your rant on MADB about this. OOPS! I see that you already made a rant there.

BTW…since you reported me for bringing up the other board…I returned the favor.

nrajeff

08-18-2010, 12:47 PM

I never saw a Gospel Principles manual until after I joined the church. Garments are in there? I don't recall that. (Not saying you are wrong...just don't remember anything about that)..
---I looked at the chapters on temple ordinances and on eternal marriage and didn't find an explicit mention of garments, but I did find the following:

“Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple,”

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=9903cb7a29c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=cf755f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Father_JD

08-18-2010, 01:38 PM

I looked at the chapters on temple ordinance and what did I see? Popcorn popping on the ordinance tree...:D

Libby

08-18-2010, 02:09 PM

---I looked at the chapters on temple ordinances and on eternal marriage and didn't find an explicit mention of garments, but I did find the following:

“Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple,”

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=9903cb7a29c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=cf755f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

That's not the Gospel Principles Manual, Jeff. That looks like what I received when I took the Temple cl***es. There is an explicit mention of garments in there, towards the middle of the page.

I knew about the white temple clothing (exterior clothing) because my mentor told me about that. But, she never mentioned garments. Probably didn't want to give me too much too soon.

Vlad III

08-18-2010, 10:03 PM

mod edit

Don't worry, URLoony, some people think that merely mentioning an encounter with those against Mormonism is being rude and making fun of them. We can all see that you did not make fun of anyone and in fact shared that you had an experience conversing with them. :)

Libby

08-18-2010, 10:11 PM

Over the last few years there seem to be two distinct camps of anti's (I use that term here because the individuals I spoke to referred to themselves as "anti-mormons.") In Palmyra, which is the only pageant I attend,there is the bullhorn crowd and the group of "concerned" individuals. I spoke to several members with yellow T-shirts from a group called "what Mormons won't tell." What I found interesting is that they are almost as offended by the bullhorn group as we are and feel their disruption prevents them (the concerned group) from sharing their message. They are afraid of being all lumped together as one hateful group by Latter-Day Saints, as we tend to do.

I'm not defending either of the groups, but did enjoy the discussion we had, it was the usual fare that we see here.

I'm glad to hear that, because I have seen videos of some of the "bullhorn" people and I would consider what I saw on those videos as very rude...as well as being unproductive. I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with the others. That's great. :)

Pa Pa

08-19-2010, 04:23 AM

I looked at the chapters on temple ordinance and what did I see? Popcorn popping on the ordinance tree...:D

Oh so being rude is ok when the beliefs differ your own?

Father_JD

08-19-2010, 04:56 AM

Oh so being rude is ok when the beliefs differ your own?

Lighten up, dude. :cool: It was a JOKE. Do you know the meaning of the word? :eek:

Pa Pa

08-19-2010, 07:23 AM

Lighten up, dude. :cool: It was a JOKE. Do you know the meaning of the word? :eek:

Yes but poor taste in this thread. In another maybe not.

Father_JD

08-19-2010, 07:57 AM

Yes but poor taste in this thread. In another maybe not.

Well, excu-u-u-u-use me. It fit PERFECTLY whether you like it or not. Lighten up. :cool:

Pa Pa

08-19-2010, 08:00 AM

Well, excu-u-u-u-use me. It fit PERFECTLY whether you like it or not. Lighten up. :cool:

If I must...

Father_JD

08-19-2010, 08:13 AM

If I must...

Please do.

Pa Pa

08-19-2010, 08:23 AM

Please do.

Alright…but I will proceed with caution.

Father_JD

08-19-2010, 08:46 AM

Alright…but I will proceed with caution.

Let me get this straight: You need to lighten up by proceeding with caution.

O-o-o-o-okay.

Pa Pa

08-19-2010, 09:30 AM

Let me get this straight: You need to lighten up by proceeding with caution.

O-o-o-o-okay.

I thought that was funny. Oh well.

Father_JD

08-19-2010, 02:14 PM

I thought that was funny. Oh well.

Good one!! That was so down-right droll I didn't realize you were making a "funny"!! Thanks! :D

Pa Pa

08-25-2010, 01:37 PM

Good one!! That was so down-right droll I didn't realize you were making a "funny"!! Thanks! :D

Droll for the troll.

Father_JD

08-25-2010, 01:53 PM

Droll for the troll.

Funnier still. Thanks! :D

alanmolstad

09-07-2012, 04:42 AM

In another thread a poster seemed to be (actually he was) excusing Preachers with bullhorns at Mormon events. His quote… "God bless them for caring enough about your soul."

When does "concern" excuse rudeness?
actually it would depent on the situation.

At a normal Mormom service or something that is normal day-to-day to Mormon worship service I would say that it would be rather rude to stand nearby with a bullhorn.

But if this is a different and special Mormon thingy, like some type of gathering or outside a Temple....or something like a general meeting, then it is very correct to stand outside and let them hear your words of warning that they will die and go to hell for their Mormon faith!

James Banta

09-07-2012, 10:07 AM

actually it would depent on the situation.

At a normal Mormom service or something that is normal day-to-day to Mormon worship service I would say that it would be rather rude to stand nearby with a bullhorn.

But if this is a different and special Mormon thingy, like some type of gathering or outside a Temple....or something like a general meeting, then it is very correct to stand outside and let them hear your words of warning that they will die and go to hell for their Mormon faith!

I am more of a one on one kind of guy.. I would rather do street evangelism as you can see Ray Comfort doing it on Way of the Master.. Bull horns are taking things way outside my comfort zone.. IHS jim

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 04:56 PM

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 05:18 PM

I saw a few people going over this topic, so I checked it out for myself and felt that I had something to add to the topic...

I did not mean for it to be upsetting to you, rather I felt that the topic was interesting and had some merit....

I believe that it would be rude to stand outside a Mormon local church with a bullhorn and cuss them out inside..

however I dont think there is a thing wrong with picketing a Mormon church, and bringing out the bullhorn when at any Mormon main temple....the location allows for such types of protest.....they should be expected...

Remember, the Mormon church is a Non-Christian CULT, and as such the members of this CULT are ****ed to eternal hell-fire.

Thus it is the Lord's will that we do what we feel led to do to warn them of their destruction,.

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 05:24 PM

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 05:33 PM

What absolute ****...there is no hell-fire.
yes there is....

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 05:37 PM

yes there is....

So be it...I guess a so called righteous God has decided many of us will go there from before the foundations of the earth according to John Calvin...according to "his good will and pleasure". Not!

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 05:40 PM

Yes, God is not surprised at the fate of the lost........

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 05:45 PM

Yes, God is not surprised at the fate of the lost........

Then why bother...and why debate? I can tell you this...if there is a hell-fire, John Calvin and all Calvinist who have died are there.

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 05:51 PM

Then why bother...and why debate? .....

To save and call to salvation the ones whom God has sent us to reach with the Good News from before the world was made.....

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 05:57 PM

To save and call to salvation the ones whom God has sent us to reach with the Good News from before the world was made.....

If they have already been selected...what is the point. So you are saying publicly that Christ did not die for all...just there-selected ?

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 06:30 PM

The blood of Christ is "sufficient" to save every man's sin

The blood of Christ is "efficient" in taking away the sins OF THEY WHO BELIEVE!

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 06:40 PM

The blood of Christ is "sufficient" to save every man's sin

The blood of Christ is "efficient" in taking away the sins OF THEY WHO BELIEVE!

So you are not a Calvinist Christian? Good.

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 06:47 PM

So you are not a Calvinist Christian? Good.

Have you not listened to Dr Walter Martin's short recording on the 5 main things of Calvinism yet?

I have not posted them for you yet?

one moment.......BRB

Pa Pa

09-08-2012, 06:53 PM

Have you not listened to Dr Walter Martin's short recording on the 5 main things of Calvinism yet?

I have not posted them for you yet?

one moment.......BRB

I would not listen too 10sec's of him...he was not ever a pastor, nor anyone in his org. Hank is a hack.

alanmolstad

09-08-2012, 07:01 PM

now the link no longer works...

The weird thing I found is that when I did a GOOGLE search for [Dr Walter martin, 5 points of Calvinism] the first listed link was from this forum and my own listing of the link I was looking for tonight.

But the link no longer works for some reason?

anyway, this address - http://ip-72-167-135-18.ip.secureserver.net/forums/showthread.php?p=93393 is where i talk about the good and bad of the 5 points of Calvinism....

Apologette

09-20-2012, 04:19 PM

John T

09-22-2012, 11:51 AM

To save and call to salvation the ones whom God has sent us to reach with the Good News from before the world was made.....

This thread is utterly hypocrisy.

The OP complains about "rudeness" and concern. Rudeness is not nice, but it is a far cry from someone trying to re-open the wounds of marital discord (unfortunately very public) in an effort to "score points for mormonism".

For anyone to use the marital faults of another and to try to further inflict pain to drive them apart, and then to complain about a trumped-up charge of "rudeness" is an appealing exercise in moral relativity.

For such an egregious breech of civility, and for treading where he has no business, interfering in the marriage of another, I am truly surprised that he does not have a lifetime ban. But that is not my call.

I wrote that just so you know the sort of '"temple-worthy mormon" with whom you correspond. BTW he has not repented, nor asked forgiveness from those whom he wanted to hurt.

Nice record of "dealing honestly with others" (temple recommend question # 8), right?

Just a thought, would certain accurate terms to describe this person be considered "being rude", or" baiting", or "being crude"? Ah, yes, the flag of moral relativism flies WITH SULFUROUS PRIDE with some here on WM.

Sir

09-22-2012, 04:37 PM

This thread is utterly hypocrisy.

The OP complains about "rudeness" and concern. Rudeness is not nice, but it is a far cry from someone trying to re-open the wounds of marital discord (unfortunately very public) in an effort to "score points for mormonism".

For anyone to use the marital faults of another and to try to further inflict pain to drive them apart, and then to complain about a trumped-up charge of "rudeness" is an appealing exercise in moral relativity.

For such an egregious breech of civility, and for treading where he has no business, interfering in the marriage of another, I am truly surprised that he does not have a lifetime ban. But that is not my call.

I wrote that just so you know the sort of '"temple-worthy mormon" with whom you correspond. BTW he has not repented, nor asked forgiveness from those whom he wanted to hurt.

Nice record of "dealing honestly with others" (temple recommend question # 8), right?

Just a thought, would certain accurate terms to describe this person be considered "being rude", or" baiting", or "being crude"? Ah, yes, the flag of moral relativism flies WITH SULFUROUS PRIDE with some here on WM.

Well, the thread is 2 years old. So if you hate it go tell Jill. It's been up for over 2 years now.

But it also seems like you simply wanted to chime in to be able to score your own little ad hominem points and polemical attacks on a person, while ecscoriating them. I think that means your complaint is pretty much null and void.

alanmolstad

09-22-2012, 05:03 PM

This thread is utterly hypocrisy.

.

not sure about that,
and I am stumped as to why my words appeared before you make such a statement?

alanmolstad

09-22-2012, 05:03 PM

When does calling another person "evil" become a sin?

when they are not evil I would guess....

alanmolstad

09-22-2012, 05:07 PM

papa, what im saying is this...

God knew before the Big bang who would come to believe in him and be saved, and who would never believe and was lost.

So before the world was made God knew that Billions of people would be lost because of their lack of faith.

god also knew before the world began that i would believe and be saved.

God knew this 100% and there never was even the slightest doubt in this.

But.....and here is the tricky part.
But we dont know the future.
i dont know who is saved and who is lost.
Thus I am sent into ALL the world to talk to EVERYONE I can about being saved.

i dont have a clue who will turn and have faith and who will walk away...
Thus I have to send the same calling out to all,,,even to you...

John T

09-23-2012, 10:21 PM

not sure about that,
and I am stumped as to why my words appeared before you make such a statement?

I replied about the subject you were addressing.
Obviously I was not replying to you.
Sorry for the confusion :o

Pa Pa

09-29-2012, 06:39 PM

When does calling another person "evil" become a sin?

When you do it, unless it is your hatred which is the stuff of legend on the net...Carol, CARMella, The King's Servant...which is it today Syble.

Pa Pa

09-29-2012, 06:42 PM

James Banta

09-30-2012, 08:29 AM

Then there is no choice...and created many for hell and we are better than God. We would not burn are children alive. If that is who he is, it is he who should suffer hell.

We ALL are called the offspring of God because He is the source of all life.. It would be just as accurate to call snails and slugs the offspring of God for He is their source as well (Acts 17:18-19, 22-26, 28).. To be a child of God requires a person to have faith in Christ (John 1:12)..

To say that God doesn't know what we will be, how we will react in any given situation is to deny that God is God and limits Him to the present when the Bible tells is that God said He is everywhere present (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus (God) taught is that he is present before Abraham (John 8:58)..

Does knowing how a person will react make the one who knows responsible for their actions? I say we are responsible for our action and no one else whether they know about those actions or not have any responsibility for them what so ever.. Should a parent kill their child because them know that they will become a serial murderer later in life? To make God responsible for our action because he knows all things is blasphemy.. IHS jim

John T

09-30-2012, 09:55 PM

When you do it, unless it is your hatred which is the stuff of legend on the net...Carol, CARMella, The King's Servant...which is it today Syble.

For what you did to other posters, amd then complain about a "perception of hatred about Apologette" is akin to someone killing his mother and father, then to claim mercy is due him because he is an orphan.

I could be more graphic, but will wait to see if you get my point.

What you did was no different than a drive-by killing. You used words instead of bullets. But you have not asked forgiveness, nor shown any remorse. Therefore your behavior here is contemptible, and it makes ANY civilized person wretch in horror.

And to do it in order to "score a point for Joe" is a demonstration without needing further proof that your CULT is EVIL, CORRUPT and an ABOMINATION to a just, righteous and holy God.

Sir

10-01-2012, 12:32 PM

For what you did to other posters, amd then complain about a "perception of hatred about Apologette" is akin to someone killing his mother and father, then to claim mercy is due him because he is an orphan.

I could be more graphic, but will wait to see if you get my point.

What you did was no different than a drive-by killing. You used words instead of bullets. But you have not asked forgiveness, nor shown any remorse. Therefore your behavior here is contemptible, and it makes ANY civilized person wretch in horror.

And to do it in order to "score a point for Joe" is a demonstration without needing further proof that your CULT is EVIL, CORRUPT and an ABOMINATION to a just, righteous and holy God.

How dramatic.

At least we know who would cast the first stone.

LOL

Pa Pa

10-01-2012, 05:47 PM

We ALL are called the offspring of God because He is the source of all life.. It would be just as accurate to call snails and slugs the offspring of God for He is their source as well (Acts 17:18-19, 22-26, 28).. To be a child of God requires a person to have faith in Christ (John 1:12)..

To say that God doesn't know what we will be, how we will react in any given situation is to deny that God is God and limits Him to the present when the Bible tells is that God said He is everywhere present (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus (God) taught is that he is present before Abraham (John 8:58)..
IHS jim

Christ made clear, we are his brothers and we all have the same Father and both worship the same God.

"Touch me not, for I have note yet ascended unto my Father; but go and tell my brethren that I go to my Father, and their Father, to my God and unto your God"

Wow...God has a Father and God.

John T

10-01-2012, 08:04 PM

Christ made clear, we are his brothers and we all have the same Father and both worship the same God.

"Touch me not, for I have note yet ascended unto my Father; but go and tell my brethren that I go to my Father, and their Father, to my God and unto your God"

Wow...God has a Father and God.

Why7 do you obdurately refuse to man-up to your OWN hypocrisy? You sought to destroy a marriage all to "score points for Joe" but then complain about "rudeness" in your OP.

THAT is a "moral equivalence argument" in the absurd. Go and leave here until you have the man hood to man-up on what you did.

Sir

10-01-2012, 08:28 PM

Why7 do you obdurately refuse to man-up to your OWN hypocrisy? You sought to destroy a marriage all to "score points for Joe" but then complain about "rudeness" in your OP.

THAT is a "moral equivalence argument" in the absurd. Go and leave here until you have the man hood to man-up on what you did.

One would think JohnT would simply "ignore" PaPa, like he brags about ignoring others and recommends to his other friends to do....

....but instead, he continues to post to PaPa and wondering about his manhood.

I think there is more underlying issues to JohnT than we realized.

Billyray

10-01-2012, 08:53 PM

I think there is more underlying issues to JohnT than we realized.

More of the same from you--anything you can do to avoid talking about the real issues surrounding Mormonism.

Sir

10-01-2012, 09:34 PM

More of the same from you--anything you can do to avoid talking about the real issues surrounding Mormonism.

No need to talk about my faith with 1) people who have chosen to close their ears and eyes to anything about it that will cause them to rethink their beliefs about it and 2) guys who seem to only want to publically "shame" another poster and then asking about his manhood things.....*shudder*

Billyray

10-01-2012, 10:07 PM

No need to talk about my faith with 1) people who have chosen to close their ears and eyes to anything about it that will cause them to rethink their beliefs about it and 2) guys who seem to only want to publically "shame" another poster and then asking about his manhood things.....*shudder*

You don't want to discuss Mormonism because deep down you know that you can't defend it from the Bible so you are forced to criticize a poster's grammar or other ad hominem attacks because that is all you have to work with.

Sir

10-01-2012, 10:16 PM

You don't want to discuss Mormonism because deep down you know that you can't defend it from the Bible so you are forced to criticize a poster's grammar or other ad hominem attacks because that is all you have to work with.

lol...yeah, you think think you can psycho****yze me in an attempt to make yourself feel better about why no LDS will talk to you. So i say, whatever you want to believe about me, go ahead. You have 20,000+ posts just here, and nothing has opened your eyes and ears, so I'm not the least bit interested in wasting time with your merry-go-round and worrying about what silly things you want to believe about me. :)

It's sad, though, that you continue to taunt me into talking to you, since it only proves I was right when I noted that you guys NEED the LDS here for you to survive. That's why you keep begging for dialogue.

Pa Pa

10-02-2012, 07:46 AM

Billyray

10-02-2012, 10:32 AM

It's sad, though, that you continue to taunt me into talking to you, since it only proves I was right when I noted that you guys NEED the LDS here for you to survive. That's why you keep begging for dialogue.
it only proves that you are incapable to defend your defenseless beliefs. But go ahead and believe what you want, in the end you are only hurting yourself.

Sir

10-02-2012, 10:54 AM

it only proves that you are incapable to defend your defenseless beliefs.

Too many logical fallacies in one breath to bother with.....

But go ahead and believe what you want, in the end you are only hurting yourself.

That's what I say to you too, since obviously that is what you do anyway. 20,000+ posts and your ears and eyes and mind are still completely closed.

I know you will need to have the last word, so I will leave it with you.....

James Banta

10-02-2012, 02:32 PM

Too many logical fallacies in one breath to bother with.....

That's what I say to you too, since obviously that is what you do anyway. 20,000+ posts and your ears and eyes and mind are still completely closed.

I know you will need to have the last word, so I will leave it with you.....

Whose eyes are closed? NOT the Christians. We hold that the Bible is God's truth.. A book that tells us who He is and what He did.. Mormonism denies those points of doctrine concerning the Nature of God.. You believe what a man taught instead..

The Bible teaches that there is one God..
Smith taught that there are three Gods

The Bible teaches that God has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting.
Smith taught that God became God through obedience to Laws and ordinances.

The Bible teaches that we (mankind) are saved by God's grace through Faith in Jesus and NOT of works.
Smith teaches that we are saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO.

And who has closed their eyes to these and many more Biblical teachings only to turn to the teachings of a man? Not the Christians.. IHS jim

John T

10-02-2012, 11:12 PM

Whose eyes are closed? NOT the Christians. We hold that the Bible is God's truth.. A book that tells us who He is and what He did.. Mormonism denies those points of doctrine concerning the Nature of God.. You believe what a man taught instead..

The Bible teaches that there is one God..
Smith taught that there are three Gods

The Bible teaches that God has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting.
Smith taught that God became God through obedience to Laws and ordinances.

The Bible teaches that we (mankind) are saved by God's grace through Faith in Jesus and NOT of works.
Smith teaches that we are saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO.

And who has closed their eyes to these and many more Biblical teachings only to turn to the teachings of a man? Not the Christians.. IHS jim

Indeed, it is sad, but you can tell a Mormon that according to the Bible, he/she is spiritually blind, and they cannot believe it if you copy it from Scripture:

2 Corinthians 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There is the sad, and unvarnished truth, but watch them squawk about it, and attempt to say that Paul was wrong, but Joseph was right. :eek:

Pa Pa

10-03-2012, 08:23 AM

Billyray

10-03-2012, 01:01 PM

Too many logical fallacies in one breath to bother with.....

Here is my statement
"it only proves that you are incapable to defend your defenseless beliefs."

Please list all of the logical fallacies in the above sentence.

BTW I notice that you are still avoiding talking about Mormonism. Have you ever stepped back and asked yourself why you are afraid to do so?

James Banta

10-03-2012, 05:12 PM

Here is my statement
"it only proves that you are incapable to defend your defenseless beliefs."

Please list all of the logical fallacies in the above sentence.

BTW I notice that you are still avoiding talking about Mormonism. Have you ever stepped back and asked yourself why you are afraid to do so?

You nailed it brother.. Mormonism is not defensible.. If is filled with inconsistencies right from it's very foundation.. For an example.. The foundation of the LDS church is it's priesthood. All the keys for the "kingdom" are held there within it.. If even one holder of that priesthood lives through an almost total lose of human life of the planet the church would continue through that priesthood holder.. The BofM teaches that John the Beloved and three Nephites continued in the flesh even through the dark ages and into the 19th century. And yet Joseph Smith was required to bring about a "restoration" of the one true church, and the priesthood they believe is the power to act in the name of God.. Why didn't John or the three Nephites reestablish the God Church, why was a man like Smith needed in the process? Isn't this an inconsistency in the very beginning of mormonism? YES IT IS... IHS jim

John T

10-04-2012, 10:45 AM

You first little one.

Do you not know that what you did is to seek the DESTRUCTION of two people in order to "win points for joe".

Look at what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
What you did was an attempt of verbal murder

So go ahead, and pretend that there is nothing wrong in your EVIL attempt to publicly destroy two people.

Your lack of remorse is indicative of a person having a low standard of morality, and those who willfully engage in the defense of your indefensible breech of common courtesy and lack of moral standards in this matter are share equally in the guilt that you bring upon yourself.

In that respect, you both are no different than other murderer. You made the intention with your words, another makes the same intention when he defends your "verbal murderers".

Therefore you both are despicable creatures, demonstrating an evil core of beliefs resulting in sulfurous fruits of demonic habitation, and well-deserving of any condemnation you receive here on earth, and well-deserving of any punishment you receive in eternity.

May the Lord rebuke you both, but give undeserved mercy to your souls.

Apologette

10-04-2012, 11:03 AM

edited for style

Pa Pa

10-04-2012, 06:30 PM

Do you not know that what you did is to seek the DESTRUCTION of two people in order to "win points for joe".

Who is "old joe"...if you are speaking of Joesph Smith he did not get to be old because of an armed Christian mob who murdered him for daring to believe differently than they did...anyone here coming to kill me? I don't believe anything you say...you more than most.

Pa Pa

10-04-2012, 06:31 PM

They'll do anything, won't they, to protect the infamous "prophet" Smith? ]

No we won't come kill you as you did JS.

Pa Pa

10-04-2012, 06:32 PM

They'll do anything, won't they, to protect the infamous "prophet" Smith? Even to the point of personal attacks on someone beyond the internet. That's why I don't like these Mormons to have any private information. And I'm requesting right now that the owner of this site, Jill, please prevent such posters as PA PA FROM USING PERSONAL NAMES. He's doing it in a threatening way, and is simply using the internet to hide behind. Cowardness breeds that type of activity!

I think you would just prefer she does not have all you account names.

Apologette

10-04-2012, 07:15 PM

edited for style

Apologette

10-04-2012, 08:26 PM

edited for style

Apologette

10-04-2012, 08:27 PM

edited for style

Apologette

10-04-2012, 08:29 PM

edited for style

John T

10-04-2012, 10:30 PM

originally posted by john t http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost.gif (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=135750#post135750)
do you not know that what you did is to seek the destruction of two people in order to "win points for joe".

who is "old joe"...if you are speaking of joesph smith he did not get to be old because of an armed christian mob who murdered him for daring to believe differently than they did...anyone here coming to kill me? I don't believe anything you say...you more than most.
This is a DELIBERATE MISQUOTE

Apologette

10-05-2012, 08:05 AM

edited for style

Pa Pa

10-05-2012, 01:35 PM

This is a DELIBERATE MISQUOTE

Seriously dude or dudet.

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 05:40 AM

I wish you guys would only talk about "Ideas".

and stop talking about each other personally....

Apologette

10-07-2012, 07:58 AM

edited for style

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 08:09 AM

Oh, what a manly comment! .....
Thanks for the complement:o

Apologette

10-07-2012, 08:12 AM

edited for style

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 08:20 AM

Learn to spell, the word is "compliment." And you are isntructing us?

"isntructing"?

Anyway,

Im reminding you of things you already know to be true.

Im not saying anything that you dont already know full well are correct.

Your anger is great, that much come out clear to us in your posts.

But when you anger subsides i hope you find that you would want a reputation that is different than being seen as a rule-cheating person with total disregard to the respect you and I should always show to Jill's rules.

Remember, these are not my rules.
They are not Mormon rules.
I didnt force you to agree to play by them.

You gave your word that you would play by them however....Im just reminding you of this.

Apologette

10-07-2012, 08:23 AM

"isntructing"?

Anyway,

Im reminding you of things you already know to be true.

Im not saying anything that you dont already know full well are correct.

Your anger is great, that much come out clear to us in your posts.

But when you anger subsides i hope you find that you would want a reputation that is different than being seen as a rule-cheating person with total disregard to the respect you and I should always show to Jill's rules.

Remember, these are not my rules.
They are not Mormon rules.
I didnt force you to agree to play by them.

You gave your word that you would play by them however....Im just reminding you of this.

I sent you a privatge message. Read it.

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 08:24 AM

I sent you a privatge message. Read it.
thanks...
I always enjoy PMs, and will answer appropriately.

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 08:59 AM

I wish you guys would only talk about "Ideas".

and stop talking about each other personally....

I am all for it.

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 09:02 AM

Oh, what a manly comment! Are you joking? Don't you see that all your mealy-mouthed comments have as much impact as telling Charlie Manson to "play nice." What is happening to the courageous defenders of Christ's Gospel?

Here's an idea we can discuss: Why did Joseph Smith blame his pedophile behavior on an angel sent by God? Why did he technically rape Helen Mar Kimball? Why did God give him permission to have virgins only as plural wives, and then he went out and grabbed the wives of other men to marry? All these little questions, and no Mormon here can answer one of them because they know way down deep that Joseph Smith was a pig.
Well it is on now...comparing Mormons to the Manson Family...and your comment about "what a manly comment". I also knew you felt marginalized by men. I so get you issues with Mormons. Get help Carol.

Apologette

10-07-2012, 09:17 AM

edited for style

Apologette

10-07-2012, 09:21 AM

edited for style

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 09:25 AM

You don't even know what the word "marginalized" means, do you Pop? I supervised men - hardly marginalization. Grow up. You are nothing but a stalker without any depth of integrity. I have a wonderful and successful husband who treats me as his equal (unlike the nutty Mormon men who think they are going to resurrect their wives by calling them forth from the grave with their secret temple name - what garbage). He could teach you a thing or two about how a man should act..........not the cowardly antics you perform behind your little keyboard.

And by the way, you should read my new thread on the lie of Forever Families. How's that working out for you, pal?

You supervised men...wow. All the while wishing you were one?

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 09:28 AM

You're full of it. You came to CARM complaining about how you were being treated by the Mormons over at MDD, and hoodwinked a whole bunch of Christians into "consoling" you. Then you turned on them like a rabid snapping turtle (if there is such a thing). I haven't forgotten. You cannot be trusted to do the right thing - for, in the end, you act like an apostate, attacking Christians, and calling the Gospel of Christ, darkness. Imagine, you call the Gospel DARKNESS. How evil is that?

In the Name of Jesus Christ, be rebuked.

When was the last time you saw me at the vomit pool? I don't post at CARM, for over 4 months now. I am lying in bed with a broken back...no doubt one I deserve..,yes sweetie, I know how your mind works. You need to let your rage go...at least you can know some peace before hell begins.

James Banta

10-07-2012, 09:51 AM

When was the last time you saw me at the vomit pool? I don't post at CARM, for over 4 months now. I am lying in bed with a broken back...no doubt one I deserve..,yes sweetie, I know how your mind works. You need to let your rage go...at least you can know some peace before hell begins.

This is terrible news.. I knew you were having health issues I am sorry to hear that they are this serious.. You will probably not believe that I am sincere in that like your support of mormonism you would be wrong about my sincerity as well.. You know that I feel none of us deserves even the air we breath but I still hate the terrible things you have had to endure over these last few years..

I have had good LDS tell me that it is because I left the church that I have my bowel rupture, and be crippled in a car accident. I have a connection with you knowing that you disagree with that level of nonsense. The Bible tells us that God causes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on both the wicked and the righteous (Matthew 5:45).. There is no way to identify you as either wicked or righteous based on these personal disasters. There is a way to see evil in others if they accuse you of wickedness due to these person problems. With that said I want you to know that you still have my offer to aid you in these hard times.

I see your anger in your words either directed at me or others. I will try to understand your rage. You need someone to take the problem you are suffering from out on someone and here we stand Christian who oppose your religion down to it's core. Who better for you to turn your anger toward and lash out at.. IHS jim

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 09:54 AM

This is terrible news.. I knew you were having health issues I am sorry to hear that they are this serious.. You will probably not believe that I am sincere in that like your support of mormonism you would be wrong about my sincerity as well.. You know that I feel none of us deserves even the air we breath but I still hate the terrible things you have had to endure over these last few years..

I have had good LDS tell me that it is because I left the church that I have my bowel rupture, and be crippled in a car accident. I have a connection with you knowing that you disagree with that level of nonsense. The Bible tells us that God causes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on both the wicked and the righteous (Matthew 5:45).. There is no way to identify you as either wicked or righteous based on these personal disasters. There is a way to see evil in others if they accuse you of wickedness due to these person problems. With that said I want you to know that you still have my offer to aid you in these hard times.

I see your anger in your words either directed at me or others. I will try to understand your rage. You need someone to take the problem you are suffering from out on someone and here we stand Christian who oppose your religion down to it's core. Who better for you to turn your anger toward and lash out at.. IHS jim

Some kid playing with his phone lost control of his car and hit my wife and I while on the way home from the Doctor. I have learned how to type on an IPad while lying on my back.

James Banta

10-07-2012, 10:18 AM

Some kid playing with his phone lost control of his car and hit my wife and I while on the way home from the Doctor. I have learned how to type on an IPad while lying on my back.

I will pray that your needs are met though holding those that caused this major injury responsible for their lack of care.. IHS jim

Apologette

10-07-2012, 10:45 AM

Praying for Papa's healing.

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 11:05 AM

[B]Oh, too bad. ]

This is what Carol's Jesus requires of her...look closely everyone.

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 11:58 AM

This is what _______ Jesus requires of her...look closely everyone.

It's a poor reflection to be sure...

I have warned her today that her anger was getting the best of her.
I would only ask you to forgive her, and try to keep in mind that she is not speaking on any authority but her own..

And that in every faith we have people that simply have moments when they don't live up to the best expectations of their faith.

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 12:02 PM

It's a poor reflection to be sure...

I have warned her today that her anger was getting the best of her.
I would only ask you to forgive her, and try to keep in mind that she is not speaking on any authority but her own..

And that in every faith we have people that simply have moments when they don't live up to the best expectations of their faith.

It is hard to forgive while being injured continually...but I will try.

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 12:06 PM

It is hard to forgive while being injured continually...but I will try.

Being of a forgiving nature reflects a lot better on your religion, than all the skills you might have as a debater.

oh.....and I have posted the rule about 'names"...so that we all can see what the rule is, so that we all can submit to it on an equal footing.

I dont think any of us want it to be said that we had given our word to play by the rules, only to start breaking them to score points.

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 12:43 PM

Being of a forgiving nature reflects a lot better on your religion, than all the skills you might have as a debater.

oh.....and I have posted the rule about 'names"...so that we all can see what the rule is, so that we all can submit to it on an equal footing.

I dont think any of us want it to be said that we had given our word to play by the rules, only to start breaking them to score points.

One thing if I remain you will learn about me...I do not do things for points. I am a believer and that offends some to anger. It is not my desire. I demonstrate the absurd, by being absurd.

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 12:47 PM

and then it should be no trick to demonstrate forgiveness by being forgiving.

Pa Pa

10-07-2012, 01:08 PM

and then it should be no trick to demonstrate forgiveness by being forgiving.

Here let me help...I wrote this:

Forgive

Forgive,
The scripture seemed to read,
As once again I’d look.
Forgive,
The scripture clearly said,
Annoyed I closed the book.
“Forgive“,
The Spirit softly spoke,
Startled I did fear.
Forgive,
The Spirit louder spoke,
I pretended not to hear.
“Forgive“,
The Saviour said to me,
I quickly questioned , Why?
“Forgive“,
The Saviour said again,
“For this I came to die.”

Then bitterly I cried out
How canst thou know my pain?
The wounds that I have suffered
My tears that fell like rain.
The quietly he spoke my name
And said, “I understand”.
Reached out that he may lift me
With wounds in both his hands.
Ashamed I said, How can I?
He reminded me again,
“For he who will not forgive,
In him lies the greater sin.”

Forgive,
The scripture seemed to read,
As once again I’d look.
Forgive,
The scripture clearly read,
I then embraced the book.
“Forgive“,
The Spirit softly spoke,
Now I did not fear.
“Forgive“,
The Spirit said again,
Once deaf, I now can hear.
“Forgive“,
The Saviour said to me,
“To you this gift I give.”
“Forgive,”
The Savior said again,
“Do this and ye shall live.”

William E. Lee
Copyright 1996

alanmolstad

10-07-2012, 01:13 PM

Can't add to that!

alanmolstad

03-14-2014, 07:55 PM

In another thread a poster seemed to be (actually he was) excusing Preachers with bullhorns at Mormon events. His quote… "God bless them for caring enough about your soul."

When does "concern" excuse rudeness?

the use of a bullhorn is up to the thing...the context at the time.

if the Mormons are in the middle of a prayer. then even if the Christians were to whisper in the middle of it it is a sin....
shows poor manners...
and is a bad example for others.

on the other hand...if the Christians are outside a Mormon temple, or outside walking on the sidewalk or some type of Mormon event?...then "let er rip!"

(remember the Mormons are going to burn one day so I think that would value our efforts to save them )

SO ITS DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT....

alanmolstad

01-09-2015, 11:42 AM

so not only do I think its a good idea to use a bullhorn at Mormon events to witness to the Mormons, I am the guy who has a history of being the guy who bought the bullhorn in the first place!

The bull horns I have gotten for Preachers to use when calling out to people lost inside a cult are the same type of bullhorns used by the fire departments.

These things are LOUD!
They are made to be heard inside buildings 100s of feet away.

I made sure they were so super-loud so that the Mormons and JWs can hear them even when they are inside their church, even with the doors closed and the music playing!

Christian

01-09-2015, 12:58 PM

In another thread a poster seemed to be (actually he was) excusing Preachers with bullhorns at Mormon events. His quote… "God bless them for caring enough about your soul."

When does "concern" excuse rudeness?

JESUS WAS RUDE at times, calling some folks "whitewashed sepulchers" etc. So was John the Baptist, calling them 'brood of vipers. . ."

YOUR excuse?

MORMONS in these forums are just as rude as everyone else. More so quite often!

Christian

01-09-2015, 01:03 PM

So any behavior is acceptable as long as one cares?

Do you think JESUS and JOHN THE BAPTIST 'didn't care?' THEY were rude. I remember the terms 'whitewashed tombs. . .' and 'brood of vipers. . .'

Perhaps you don't think the mormon missionaries should be coming to our doors telling us that joey smith said that ALL OF OUR "professors" were bad, but BOY DO THEY HAVE A NICE FALSE PROPHET WE COULD FOLLOW!

Oh, that's right, your mishies don't bother to TELL THOSE TRUTHS, do they?

Christian

01-09-2015, 01:08 PM

I agree, do the Evangelicals have to share our Temple Ordinances, I find this more then rude, it's despicable. Mocking in some sense, not really educating people since we all know that not many lurkers or visitors frequent CARM or WM. So we really know why EV's do it.

Would YOU go into a house of pros***ution to 'share' their stuff with you as YOU 'shared' with them?

Naah. SOME THINGS are simply inappropriate. . .even for the mormons to do.

Sharing the TRUTH about the REAL Jesus Christ (not smith's 'spirit-brother-of-satan-'jesus') is NEVER simply mocking, though mocking may be done at the same time. IT IS appropriate to mock FAKES at times, of course

alanmolstad

03-09-2017, 09:40 AM

MORMONS in these forums are just as rude as everyone else. More so quite often![/B][/COLOR]

From reviewing the past history of this forum, from looking at the number of past members of this forum who now carry the listing of "BANNED" under their name, and from my own interaction with guests here , I have come to one conclusion, that being the following -

Religious affiliation is no guide as to predicting the ability of people to display good manners while visiting this type of message board.

The greatest cause for people to get banned is a deep-down lack of proper respect of the person for the rules.

Why do people show such bad manners and lack of respect for the rules?

The 2 main reasons I have seen from the time I have been here are -
#1 - frustration with other guests.
#2 - being unconvinced any consequences will result in breaking a rule.

Christian

03-09-2017, 11:49 AM

That is exactly what I was thinking. Could you imagine the outpouring of hostility if even one set of missionaries were going around neighborhoods with bullhorns and yelling insulting things at Christian gatherings? Of course, it really would be out of love for those people.:rolleyes:

Would you prefer air horns? Or how about goat horns? Last time I heard, preaching CHRIST to NON-Christians, whether by airhorn or not, was USUALLY OFFENSIVE to the heathens.

People have been MURDERED for preaching the Word of GOD!

Christian

03-09-2017, 12:02 PM

They don't like us quietly knocking on does out of concern…bullhorns would be received very well don't you think? Not!

No,we don't much care for the jw's, mormons or other cultists coming to our doors trying to peddle their religions to us.

NON-Christians such as the white supremecists, mormons, and jws don't impress us Christians much. I guess that is why mormon missionaries are rejected so much. The NON-Christians are not impressed by you other NON-Christians much either.

But

If you sent out a gazillion 'missionaries,' you are BOUND to find a few 'suckers' who get sucked in.

Like P.T. Barnum once said (Or was it joseph smith who said it?) "There's a sucker born every minute."

dberrie2000

03-11-2017, 05:48 AM

No,we don't much care for the jw's, mormons or other cultists coming to our doors trying to peddle their religions to us.

I believe that is your right, but do you consider Paul as one who would "peddle" his religion?

Acts 20:20-21---King James Version (KJV)
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.