New Age - What Do You Think?

[ChrisLaRock]

I was listening to Pastor Joe Shimmel from Blessed Hope Chapel as he spoke about the New Age movement. He stated that it is his personal belief that satan is using the New Age movement to prepare the people of the world so they will be in the right state of mind and heart to embrace the kingdom of anti-christ when it is revealed.

There's no doubt that many of the prophecies dealing with the man of sin have some of the same elements as the New Age ideology. What do the rest of you think?

[Heart2Heart]

I was listening to Pastor Joe Shimmel from Blessed Hope Chapel as he spoke about the New Age movement. He stated that it is his personal belief that satan is using the New Age movement to prepare the people of the world so they will be in the right state of mind and heart to embrace the kingdom of anti-christ when it is revealed.

There's no doubt that many of the prophecies dealing with the man of sin have some of the same elements as the New Age ideology. What do the rest of you think?

I am wondering where your pastor got his source. This is the second time I've heard this, and I'm skeptical. How did your pastor come with this conclusion?

[ChrisLaRock]

I am wondering where your pastor got his source. This is the second time I've heard this, and I'm skeptical. How did your pastor come with this conclusion?

The pastor examined the ideologies of the new age, and compared them to prophecies about the man of sin. The new age teaches that we are divine beings and must look within. They teach that we can have the kingdom without the king. Isn't that something that must be taught to the m***es so they accept anti-christ when he is revealed?

[Heart2Heart]

The pastor examined the ideologies of the new age, and compared them to prophecies about the man of sin. The new age teaches that we are divine beings and must look within. They teach that we can have the kingdom without the king. Isn't that something that must be taught to the m***es so they accept anti-christ when he is revealed?

I know the New Age Movement is mainly influenced by the Eastern philosophy, especially Buddhism and Hinduism. Also the movement contains Native American beliefs and Carl Jung's teachings of collective unconscious. You might be right. I purchased a book from a used bookstore today. The book is called, "The Everything World's Religions Book" by Robert Pollock. It mentions the followers are looking to a New World Order that would end wars, pollutions, poverty, and discrimination.

[Heart2Heart]

The pastor examined the ideologies of the new age, and compared them to prophecies about the man of sin. The new age teaches that we are divine beings and must look within. They teach that we can have the kingdom without the king. Isn't that something that must be taught to the m***es so they accept anti-christ when he is revealed?

I know the New Age Movement is mainly influenced by the Eastern philosophy, especially Buddhism and Hinduism. Also the movement contains Native American beliefs and Carl Jung's teachings of collective unconscious.

You might be right. I purchased a book from a used bookstore today. The book is called, "The Everything World's Religions Book" by Robert Pollock. It mentions the followers are looking to a New World Order that would end wars, pollutions, poverty, and discrimination. By the way, the book is so-so.

[ChrisLaRock]

I know the New Age Movement is mainly influenced by the Eastern philosophy, especially Buddhism and Hinduism. Also the movement contains Native American beliefs and Carl Jung's teachings of collective unconscious.

You might be right. I purchased a book from a used bookstore today. The book is called, "The Everything World's Religions Book" by Robert Pollock. It mentions the followers are looking to a New World Order that would end wars, pollutions, poverty, and discrimination. By the way, the book is so-so.

In my opinion, the new age thought is paving the way for anti-christ. The pastor I mentioned pointed out what ideologies have to be popular in the world in order for a global leader to be accepted. Many of those ideologies are being taught in the new age.

I was watching a DVD of Dr. Martin, and he said that new agers are awaiting a global leader who will usher in the "age of aquarius". Could it be that this is the kingdom of anti-christ?

[Margie23]

HI all, well, I am a new ager but I don't even like to use that label as it implies something which I am not. I think many do not understand the nature of new agers or really "understand" waht we are about... and they/I most certainly do not subscribe to ushering in satan at all. We do not believe in satan.. satan/lucifer was born of the "human mind"..this idea/concept was birthed by man in the story of adam and eve in the bible... and it is really a metaphor which stood/stands for man's darker side that created and continues to create the darkest energy/events on earth...all because of his free choice/will. Now I have chosen to focus on gods unabiding love for all and stricly adhere to the golden rule and law of reciprocity..with that, how can I truly be spreading darkness..when all I desire is for humanity to live with all our diversities in utter peace, love and respect for one another..

peace and Love
Margie

[Heart2Heart]

HI all, well, I am a new ager but I don't even like to use that label as it implies something which I am not. I think many do not understand the nature of new agers or really "understand" waht we are about... and they/I most certainly do not subscribe to ushering in satan at all. We do not believe in satan.. satan/lucifer was born of the "human mind"..this idea/concept was birthed by man in the story of adam and eve in the bible... and it is really a metaphor which stood/stands for man's darker side that created and continues to create the darkest energy/events on earth...all because of his free choice/will. Now I have chosen to focus on gods unabiding love for all and stricly adhere to the golden rule and law of reciprocity..with that, how can I truly be spreading darkness..when all I desire is for humanity to live with all our diversities in utter peace, love and respect for one another..

peace and Love
Margie

One of my relatives is a New Ager, and she pretty much says the same thing. However, she does follow the teachings of several Eastern leaders including Jesus and has them on a wall in her bedroom. I don't advocate her philosophy, because she doesn't see the importance of Jesus as the only way.

Blessings....

[Margie23]

:)sounds like you have a diverse family heart2heart..well, not all "new agers" are alike...and i think many have the much older tainted version of who and what we are..i believe in Jesus and God, but i also beleive they are both a part of us..thus making us all one in god/jesus... and i'm also not a bible literalist or inerantist..

I also wanted to respond to the thought that we are "waiting" for a "global leader"..if anything i was waiting for obama lol, and i most certainly hope that he is not condsidered to be the anti-christ..lol..i think we are in msot auspicious times and clearly for me, obama represents a much needed change..may not be a perfect one..but a change from the old ways of leading in this world and most certainly a front runner..


much love
Margie

[Trinity]

I also wanted to respond to the thought that we are "waiting" for a "global leader"..if anything i was waiting for obama lol, and i most certainly hope that he is not condsidered to be the anti-christ..lol..i think we are in msot auspicious times and clearly for me, obama represents a much needed change..may not be a perfect one..but a change from the old ways of leading in this world and most certainly a front runner...

I have to admit that I was impressed by these documents the first time I studied them. However, later, I had found some flaws in these novelties.

Are you familiar with these works?

The Hidden Messages in Water
by Masaru Emoto
http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Messages-Water-Masaru-Emoto/dp/1582701148

What the Bleep Do We Know!?
Starring: Marlee Matlin, Elaine Hendrix Director: Betsy Ch***e, Mark Vicente
http://www.amazon.com/What-Bleep-Do-We-Know/dp/B0006UEVQ8/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

What the Bleep Do We Know!?: Discovering the Endless Possibilities for Altering Your Everyday Reality
by William Arntz (Author), Ch***e (Author), Mark Vicente (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/What-Bleep-Know-Discovering-Possibilities/dp/0757305628/ref=pd_sim_d_1

Trinity

[Margie23]

Hi Trinity;

Yes I know of masaro emoto, i really do believe in sending water gra***ude and love, and it's been scientifically shown how just doing that changes its molecular structure back to it's purest form...I'll include soem web pages and a youtube link for your perusal..now I ahven't read "what the bleep do we know" but i do know many that have adn they report ebign very satisfied with what it talks about..hmm, now you've got me curious..might look into reading it..i think as well, there is a movie out about it..

heres the links to masaro emoto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbpXRSIUnE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZDOPQRdxJM&feature=related

This one takes all the national anthems and applies them to water and shows the effect it has on the water crystal:

http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/ephoto.html

And here's another site:

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm


Love
margie

[sunofmysoul]

Hi Trinity;

Yes I know of masaro emoto, i really do believe in sending water gra***ude and love, and it's been scientifically shown how just doing that changes its molecular structure back to it's purest form...I'll include soem web pages and a youtube link for your perusal..now I ahven't read "what the bleep do we know" but i do know many that have adn they report ebign very satisfied with what it talks about..hmm, now you've got me curious..might look into reading it..i think as well, there is a movie out about it..

heres the links to masaro emoto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbpXRSIUnE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZDOPQRdxJM&feature=related

This one takes all the national anthems and applies them to water and shows the effect it has on the water crystal:

http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/ephoto.html

And here's another site:

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm


Love
margie

this fascinates me so...i am trying to find the research done on plants that seem to imply the same thing....(if anyone has links i would love it!)
there seems to be at least some evidence that nature is affected by positive or negative thoughts or words (there are many studies showing plants affected by sound http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TW2-487DB9C-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4c5a82309c073df38118f2d64186f03e and http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20518460
i have often wondered of the power of sound....and music...
and the voice of God...and creation..or ...the beginning....:)

[constantine70]

Hi SOMS!
I think that you have hit the nail on the head about 'sound', but since we know that 'frequency' is a 'wave' that can only be termed as 'sound' when there are physical devices to interpret the sound. I tend to agree with the gnostics that 'light' is that which has no begining and no end. But as we see 'light' is a wave as well that is interpreted by a physical devices. Now the metaphysical is also light/sound/frequency that is so moldable that we can create from it, were some new agers believe that we created this Earth with Jesus in order for the growth process. When you think about it, Perfect Humility would not create things unless it is for the good of all things. Perfect Humility would allow others to create as well. I think that the best description of Jesus that I have come across is the one by Christian Anderson that the spliting of First Light to the first split being male/female and the joining of the two together created Yeshua or the Christ aspect. The only begotten son. We are not birthed cause we came from First Light prior (same time since time has no meaning there) to the spliting/re-unification of the male/female aspect of First Light. The gnostics only see Yeshua as having the authority from First Light to do the things that Christ does. It is very complex in the multi dimensional existance that is 'being'.
I am terrible at articulation, but I hope someone understands where I am comming from.
Peace and Harmony through Unconditional LOVE!

[Margie23]

Hi Constantine...so nice to see you here and yes, i can understand you....you seem to have flaire and ease with the more metaphysical descriptions and explanations which i do not so well in, so i look forward to hearing more.:)

Love
margie

[TamTam]

HI all, well, I am a new ager but I don't even like to use that label as it implies something which I am not. I think many do not understand the nature of new agers or really "understand" waht we are about... and they/I most certainly do not subscribe to ushering in satan at all. We do not believe in satan.. satan/lucifer was born of the "human mind"..this idea/concept was birthed by man in the story of adam and eve in the bible... and it is really a metaphor which stood/stands for man's darker side that created and continues to create the darkest energy/events on earth...all because of his free choice/will. Now I have chosen to focus on gods unabiding love for all and stricly adhere to the golden rule and law of reciprocity..with that, how can I truly be spreading darkness..when all I desire is for humanity to live with all our diversities in utter peace, love and respect for one another..

peace and Love
MargieHi Margie. I have been "labeled" as new age by many folks however, I don't think it really fits me in every instance either. I have very eclectic beliefs and chose to take the good I learn from all belief systems and try to incorporate those beliefs into my daily life.

I think the term "new age" is misleading at best as new age is really nothing "new", many of it's views and pilosophies have been around for hundreds of years or more.

As far as the original topic of the thread regarding new age views being the "preparation" for the anti-christ. I really don't believe that, not just because I don't believe in the biblical view of the anti-christ but also because the new age "way" is to focus on light, love, peace harmony, doing good to those around you, etc. The "true" new age believer has no need or desire to focus on "evil" or darkness. Even those of us that lean towards "new age" beliefs but do not fully consider ourselves to be labeled as such, even we have much more interest in the good things life has to offer and tend to focus on that and also look for it when it isn't blatently aparant. I find it really hard to believe that "new age" views would be the thing that would usher in something ego driven like an anti-christ type figure.

Blessings-

Tam

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

Hi Margie. I have been "labeled" as new age by many folks however, I don't think it really fits me in every instance either. I have very eclectic beliefs and chose to take the good I learn from all belief systems and try to incorporate those beliefs into my daily life.

I think the term "new age" is misleading at best as new age is really nothing "new", many of it's views and pilosophies have been around for hundreds of years or more.

As far as the original topic of the thread regarding new age views being the "preparation" for the anti-christ. I really don't believe that, not just because I don't believe in the biblical view of the anti-christ but also because the new age "way" is to focus on light, love, peace harmony, doing good to those around you, etc. The "true" new age believer has no need or desire to focus on "evil" or darkness. Even those of us that lean towards "new age" beliefs but do not fully consider ourselves to be labeled as such, even we have much more interest in the good things life has to offer and tend to focus on that and also look for it when it isn't blatently aparant. I find it really hard to believe that "new age" views would be the thing that would usher in something ego driven like an anti-christ type figure.

Blessings-

Tam

Sounds good to me,Tam. i've read, in my time, a book from an evangelical bookstore back in the 1970's by an overly dramatic (but then quite popular) Christian author named Salem Kirban, wherein he "proved" that then U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was indeed the "Beast" spoken of in the New Testament Book of Revelation.....(:p). Ever look inside a Christian bookstore? They virtually burst at the seams with this silly, defamatory, overly dramatic garbage in print (which ends up hurting the lives and hard earned reputations of real, identifiable people.

So you tell me.........where is the "darkness"?

ys,
bmd.

[sayso]

i've read, in my time, a book from an evangelical bookstore back in the 1970's by an overly dramatic (but then quite popular) Christian author named Salem Kirban,

ys,
bmd.

Never heard of him, must have been Krishna's reading his works. :D

[Margie23]

Hi Margie. I have been "labeled" as new age by many folks however, I don't think it really fits me in every instance either. I have very eclectic beliefs and chose to take the good I learn from all belief systems and try to incorporate those beliefs into my daily life.

I feel the same way Tam..


I think the term "new age" is misleading at best as new age is really nothing "new", many of it's views and pilosophies have been around for hundreds of years or more.

It is most certainly misleading and much of coming from the 'old' way of looking at new age. I really think we are far beyond that label and I have heard it described now as the 'new, new age'..so gone are the crystals, tarot cards and such that used to define it, mind you they are still used as ways of looking at potentials, and the healing arts such as reiki are still very much used. I actually see more and more people embracing alternate healing modalities apart from traditional medicine. It's even started at the medical centre where I work, esp. for cancer patients and those who suffer from terminal illness's and post surgically as well.



As far as the original topic of the thread regarding new age views being the "preparation" for the anti-christ. I really don't believe that, not just because I don't believe in the biblical view of the anti-christ but also because the new age "way" is to focus on light, love, peace harmony, doing good to those around you, etc. The "true" new age believer has no need or desire to focus on "evil" or darkness. Even those of us that lean towards "new age" beliefs but do not fully consider ourselves to be labeled as such, even we have much more interest in the good things life has to offer and tend to focus on that and also look for it when it isn't blatently aparant. I find it really hard to believe that "new age" views would be the thing that would usher in something ego driven like an anti-christ type figure.


Tam, I feel the same way, thanks so much for sharing..:)

Blessings and love
Margie

[Jill]

Sounds good to me,Tam. i've read, in my time, a book from an evangelical bookstore back in the 1970's by an overly dramatic (but then quite popular) Christian author named Salem Kirban, wherein he "proved" that then U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was indeed the "Beast" spoken of in the New Testament Book of Revelation.....(:p). Ever look inside a Christian bookstore? They virtually burst at the seams with this silly, defamatory, overly dramatic garbage in print (which ends up hurting the lives and hard earned reputations of real, identifiable people.

So you tell me.........where is the "darkness"?

ys,
bmd.


Oh please, bmd, this is such a broad and unverifiable statement. I sincerely doubt that the majority of Christian bookstores are bursting at the seams with "silly, defamatory, over dramatic garbage" or that anyone would have the time or energy to prove this.

Do some authors write silly things? Absolutely, but this silliness extends to all religions--including Hare Krishna--so to blame Christians alone for it or use it as an excuse to avoid Christianity is illogical. Are some things defamatory? Probably not, based on how paranoid most publishers are when it comes to these things. And if they were to the degree you argue, lawsuits would constantly be in the news.

Maybe this is a good place to remember how many people were driven away from Hare Krishna in the 1960s and 1970s due to harr***ment at the airports and public places by overly zealous (some might even say programmed) recruits? Could this behavior (such as taking back a flower when a donation was not forthcoming) be called silly or overly dramatic?

Yes. So, I fail to see a solid or defendable point here.

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

Are some things defamatory? Probably not, based on how paranoid most publishers are when it comes to these things. And if they were to the degree you argue, lawsuits would constantly be in the news.

Maybe this is a good place to remember how many people were driven away from Hare Krishna in the 1960s and 1970s due to harr***ment at the airports and public places by overly zealous (some might even say programmed) recruits? Could this behavior (such as taking back a flower when a donation was not forthcoming) be called silly or overly dramatic?

Yes. So, I fail to see a solid or defendable point here.

Consider, please, if you will, the historical context of the appearance of the Hare Krishna movement in the United States during the 1960's and 1970's (and ALSO the generation to which that movement primarily appealed), and compare that with the established tenure (and cons***uency) of (primarily) Protestant, evangelical Christianity in the United States.

For the benefit of those who were not a part of that most interesting segment of U.S. history, i (who am one that was) will try to explain. The youth of America were again questioning traditional values (having come to a realization they were not living in a "Leave it to Beaver" world, but that senile old politicians were asking them to go out and sacrifice their lives on foreign soil in a war (in defense of such a fantasy) which they (the politicians) had no intention of winning. The idealism of their youth then became prey to alot of senile old politicians (on the Communist side) who saw their vulnerability, and therefore unleashed a campaign of tabloid sloganism, cheapening the import of such lofty yearnings as "PEACE" and "LOVE", among American youth (who, by this time, were doping themselves up on hallucinogenic drugs and calling "free love" what was, in reality, an expenditure of unbridled lust and anxiety, because the hypocrisy of their parents (and the values their parents had pretended to uphold) was the only gleam of Truth impinging on their conscious processes.

Srila Prabhupada appeared from the East (at a time when nearly every American adolescent considered it "cool" to have an Eastern guru, and those to whom he appealed came into his own residence and temples stinking of marijuana smoke and recently ejaculated semen, and it was from this tired, cynical, and basically unruly band of recruits that the underpinnings of an ancient Vedic civilization were transplanted onto American soil by a humble Indian soul, who had taken the commission of his spiritual master seriously, to familiarize people on the entire planet with the Hare Krishna Mahamantra, and to hold forth the chanting of the Holy Names of God and prayerful surrender unto Him as being the ultimate "escape route" back to Him, and that God was offering this most timely benediction not only to American youth, but also to all people on this entire Planet.

These were his "soldiers" in the early days- American kids who had come to the mistaken belief that the ends justify the means, and thus, many mistakes were made and are most frankly acknowledged by those of us whose lives were touched by Srila Prabhupada during the 60's and 70's, and i have personally asked God's (AND now your) forgiveness for all such mistakes that i have
made (and will yet make) and have received from God the truly blissful ***urance that they have been forgiven (and will be, for as long as i make trying to serve God the object of primary focus in my life).

What i have shared with you here is not someone else's ****ysis of history, Jill, that you or any other member of this Discussion Board can "Google up" and find that it was copied from someone else's (or even my own) "canned" ****ysis of the pivotal role played by historical events in the birth or subsequent evolution of the Hare Krishna movement in the United States- please accept this as my very personal gift , offered exclusively to Walter Martin Discussion Boards.

ys,
bmd.

[CleoSquare]

Yes, I am always wary of these sorts of books bmd- I remember a book from my youth called 'the late great planet earth' that prophesied the end of the world. It quite messed me up for a while... made me very fearful and judgemental towards different countries etc.

I am also really wary of all these Christians who claim to have had near death experiences and visited Hell and use this as a proof of hell. The Bible does not teach that people go straight to hell- so how can there experience be anything other than a bizarre hallucination?

I really do think that we need to use our brains- as well as our emotions....

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

Yes, I am always wary of these sorts of books bmd- I remember a book from my youth called 'the late great planet earth' that prophesied the end of the world. It quite messed me up for a while... made me very fearful and judgemental towards different countries etc.

I am also really wary of all these Christians who claim to have had near death experiences and visited Hell and use this as a proof of hell. The Bible does not teach that people go straight to hell- so how can there experience be anything other than a bizarre hallucination?

I really do think that we need to use our brains- as well as our emotions....

Frankly, i doubt that Mr. Kissinger & people reeaching his level of respect in public life could feel much threatened by these (quite wealthy) false prophets, and wouldn't waste time dignifying the accusations with lawsuits.

ys,
bmd.

[sleepyhead]

Hello,

I think I might be a new ager. I believe in the Edgar Cayce material which taught reincarnation, dream study, and astrology. I used to put a lot of effort into recording my dreams but I don't anymore. I never got to involved in astrology because it was too complicated. We believe in Jesus though we probably differ from mainstream Christianity on exactly what Jesus accomplished. We believe he will return when the way has been prepared for him. We aren't looking for any other world leader though I was rather happy to see Bush leave office and Obama take over as President.

[Margie23]

:)Hi sleeyhead and welcome!

I'm also very interested in reincarnation..and funny cause i think obama really looks like Abraham lincoln :D

Love
margie

[TamTam]

:)Hi sleeyhead and welcome!

I'm also very interested in reincarnation..and funny cause i think obama really looks like Abraham lincoln :D

Love
margieReincarnation is interesting to me also although at this point I have not quite figured out exactly how I feel about it or if I even believe in it but I am fasinated with it all.

[sleepyhead]

Reincarnation is interesting to me also although at this point I have not quite figured out exactly how I feel about it or if I even believe in it but I am fasinated with it all.

Hello Tam Tam,

For me reincarnation was upsetting at first because I felt I was going to heaven after death. The belief had to grow on me so that now I prefer it to any other form of afterlife.

[TamTam]

Hello Tam Tam,

For me reincarnation was upsetting at first because I felt I was going to heaven after death. The belief had to grow on me so that now I prefer it to any other form of afterlife.I'm not sure what you mean.

My understanding of reincarnation (just from what I have read about it and from friends who believe in it) is that there is a heaven after this life and reincarnation is a choice, meaning that if you want to go back and be incarnated again into another body, you can but you can also chose to stay in heaven.

Reincarnation seems plausable. It would certianly explain a few things such as: Child prodigys, dejavu, unexplainable debilitating personal fears, memories of living out another person's life in the past as if it were your own, speaking a language you have never learned in this life or even heard other people speak before, going to a new place and feeling like you have been there before and being totally comfortable with it, knowing where things were and the local history of the people and environment as if you had lived there yourself. It would explain like some people constantly feel they were meant for "bigger or better" things or why some people have a natural ability to do things that no one else in their family has any talant for or interest in. It would also explain why you can meet someone for the first time and feel like you have known them your whole life and instantly connect with them as if the two of you have a history together.


Like I said, I really don't know what I think of reincarnation at this point. I think it is plausable like many other things are plausable, I just haven't made up my mind on it all.

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

I'm not sure what you mean.

My understanding of reincarnation (just from what I have read about it and from friends who believe in it) is that there is a heaven after this life and reincarnation is a choice, meaning that if you want to go back and be incarnated again into another body, you can but you can also chose to stay in heaven.

Reincarnation seems plausable. It would certianly explain a few things such as: Child prodigys, dejavu, unexplainable debilitating personal fears, memories of living out another person's life in the past as if it were your own, speaking a language you have never learned in this life or even heard other people speak before, going to a new place and feeling like you have been there before and being totally comfortable with it, knowing where things were and the local history of the people and environment as if you had lived there yourself. It would explain like some people constantly feel they were meant for "bigger or better" things or why some people have a natural ability to do things that no one else in their family has any talant for or interest in. It would also explain why you can meet someone for the first time and feel like you have known them your whole life and instantly connect with them as if the two of you have a history together.


Like I said, I really don't know what I think of reincarnation at this point. I think it is plausable like many other things are plausable, I just haven't made up my mind on it all.!

What a sweet and innocent view you hold on reincarnation, friend Tam! :)Sound quite "fun", really......leaving "heaven" (any thoughts regarding "places of remedial correction" in your philosophy,or do the Adolf Hitlers, Jeffrey Dahmers, John Wayne Gaceys and Chuck Mansons just get a frown and a wristslap, followed by a "Come right on in!")????.........

Interested in knowing your thoughts here, Tam......and if/when you tire of New Agey "fun" explanations (in favor of pursuing the real and quite "unfun", truthful explanation), i cordially invite you to Hinduism Forum here at WM, where i (allowing for any additional time and continued ability to access a computer that by His Mercy, Krishna, in His perfect arrangement for my life, may grant me) will gladly add to any reincarnation-related material you may find and continue to have questions or speculations regarding.

your friend and servant,
bmd.:)

[jade84116]

This belongs more in the Kingdom of the Occult section is what I think.:)

[sleepyhead]

This belongs more in the Kingdom of the Occult section is what I think.:)

Hello Jade,

I think the present day understanding of occult is the practice of contacting the spirit world, perhaps using a ouigi board. Here are the one look dictionary definitions:

▸ noun: occult practices and techniques ("He is a student of the occult")
▸ noun: supernatural forces and events and beings collectively
▸ verb: hide from view ("The lids were occulting her eyes")
▸ verb: become concealed or hidden from view or have its light extinguished ("The beam of light occults every so often")
▸ verb: cause an eclipse of (a celestial body) by intervention ("Planets and stars often are occulted by other celestial bodies")
▸ adjective: hidden and difficult to see ("An occult fracture")
▸ adjective: having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding ("Occult lore")

I'll we are discussing is another possible version of the afterlife. I don't understand how you came to your conclusion

[TamTam]

!

What a sweet and innocent view you hold on reincarnation, friend Tam! :)Sound quite "fun", really......leaving "heaven" (any thoughts regarding "places of remedial correction" in your philosophy,or do the Adolf Hitlers, Jeffrey Dahmers, John Wayne Gaceys and Chuck Mansons just get a frown and a wristslap, followed by a "Come right on in!")????.........

Interested in knowing your thoughts here, Tam......and if/when you tire of New Agey "fun" explanations (in favor of pursuing the real and quite "unfun", truthful explanation), i cordially invite you to Hinduism Forum here at WM, where i (allowing for any additional time and continued ability to access a computer that by His Mercy, Krishna, in His perfect arrangement for my life, may grant me) will gladly add to any reincarnation-related material you may find and continue to have questions or speculations regarding.

your friend and servant,
bmd.:)I don't think that there is a litteral hell for people like Adolf Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey, etc. I think it is very possible that they could go to a "mental" hell in an after-life... a hell of their own making, one that is in their mind because of the distortions in their mind while on earth but I do not believe in eternal torture (as the Bible describes) for all eternity. My personal view is that people like those stated are above are severely mentally ill to even do the things they do and therefore, they don't even have the ability to think and reason like "normal" people do. I believe the terrible things they have done are horrid and disgusting and it doesn't make much sense to me but I do not see how anyone could be anything but completely mentally deranged to do such things in the first place. I just can't see a loving god ( or gods) eternally punishing someone who is so extremely mentally sick. Perhaps these type of people are forced to incarnation repeatedly without mental illness to have a chance to "make up for" what they did in previous lives but then again, I don't know.

I don't believe in any belief system that is based on "get even" or "suffering". I suppose this is why my beliefs are eclectic and I refuse to "belong" to any one relgion.

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

I don't think that there is a litteral hell for people like Adolf Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey, etc. I think it is very possible that they could go to a "mental" hell in an after-life... a hell of their own making, one that is in their mind because of the distortions in their mind while on earth but I do not believe in eternal torture (as the Bible describes) for all eternity. My personal view is that people like those stated are above are severely mentally ill to even do the things they do and therefore, they don't even have the ability to think and reason like "normal" people do. I believe the terrible things they have done are horrid and disgusting and it doesn't make much sense to me but I do not see how anyone could be anything but completely mentally deranged to do such things in the first place. I just can't see a loving god ( or gods) eternally punishing someone who is so extremely mentally sick. Perhaps these type of people are forced to incarnation repeatedly without mental illness to have a chance to "make up for" what they did in previous lives but then again, I don't know.

I don't believe in any belief system that is based on "get even" or "suffering". I suppose this is why my beliefs are eclectic and I refuse to "belong" to any one relgion.

If an individual is "born with" a tendency toward mental illness, how come? Do you think maybe God just up and arbitrarily decides that one segment of the population shall be His "nutcases" who shall have free reign to act as predators on the remainder of society, and have no ultimate accountability before God or human society? Are you content to leave questions like this an unsolveable "mystery", and will you pick and choose delicacies from the colorful smorgiasbord of religious eclecticism, going with whatever "seems right" to you at any given moment- or wll you not rather, in humility, concede that there is greater wisdom available than your own immediate thoughts and inclinations, and having made that concession, why would you want to make it any less than your personal lifetime desideratum to align yourself with that wisdom? .....even if that wisdom accomodates suffering and finds usefulness for it as an educative tool?

ys,
bmd.

[Margie23]

:) Hello dear BMD, i wonder if you have any insight to contribute to the subject of why these people have mental illnesses..and perhaps why they have so called chosen to be the "nut cases" of society. I appreciate your response and knowledge in this area as it seems you know soemthing we do not..

..my own knowledge base comes form working with those who are "nut cases' as you put it, and those are very real and horrible dis-eases that they suffer from. Hitler however, is a by product of being raised by both abusive (mentally and physcially) parents and having a mother who herself suffered from schizophrenia..it is my knowledge that those who suffer from this type of mental illness, do not have the ability to balance the hormone "dopamine" which is what this disease is all about..as for gacey and dalmer..they were also raised in horrible and brutally abusive households where both parents subjected them to repeated bouts of mental and physical absue..

...now addressing the reincarnation side of things, it is the individuals choice to be born into such circumstances (and they can say no)..for the betterment of society as a whole by bringing attention to abuse and what it can do to a person...sure got lot's of attention didn't it, and there is most certainly alot being done for those individuals who suffer in this way..no disrespect intended, but i find your use of words such as "nut case" offensive..hmm, maybe i'm jsut advocating for those who I work with in real llife ;)...it does not say that what they did is right, but merely showing contrast by moving the outside world along in terms of what abuse can do along with having a mental illness such as schizophrenia..

I look ofrward to your response and enlightenment..

humbly
Margie

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

:) Hello dear BMD, i wonder if you have any insight to contribute to the subject of why these people have mental illnesses..and perhaps why they have so called chosen to be the "nut cases" of society. I appreciate your response and knowledge in this area as it seems you know soemthing we do not..

..my own knowledge base comes form working with those who are "nut cases' as you put it, and those are very real and horrible dis-eases that they suffer from. Hitler however, is a by product of being raised by both abusive (mentally and physcially) parents and having a mother who herself suffered from schizophrenia..it is my knowledge that those who suffer from this type of mental illness, do not have the ability to balance the hormone "dopamine" which is what this disease is all about..as for gacey and dalmer..they were also raised in horrible and brutally abusive households where both parents subjected them to repeated bouts of mental and physical absue..

...now addressing the reincarnation side of things, it is the individuals choice to be born into such circumstances (and they can say no)..for the betterment of society as a whole by bringing attention to abuse and what it can do to a person...sure got lot's of attention didn't it, and there is most certainly alot being done for those individuals who suffer in this way..no disrespect intended, but i find your use of words such as "nut case" offensive..hmm, maybe i'm jsut advocating for those who I work with in real llife ;)...it does not say that what they did is right, but merely showing contrast by moving the outside world along in terms of what abuse can do along with having a mental illness such as schizophrenia..

I look ofrward to your response and enlightenment..

humbly
Margie

Dear friend Margie,

To me, three options immediately suggest themselves for review:

Option 1: There is no God, and no personal accountability, so predatorial behavior is desirable.....these people are 'Übermensch' (aka "above the law"). Or:

Option 2: There is a God, who's a p***ion-driven, sadistic old coot who takes pleasure in human and animal suffering. Or:

Option 3: There is a God who set the very laws of physics in motion (not the least familiar of which in anyone's mind reads something like this: "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" aka "As ye sow, so shall ye reap" aka "He that lives by the sword shall die by the sword" aka the "Law of Karma".

As you no doubt suspected (:D), i opt for Option #3....

When an act of violence occurs in the universe, causal factors, for both the perpetrator and the victim, boil down to one basic invariable: several series of harmful choices have been made (possibly at points quite distant from one another on a timeline) by the perpetrator, by the victim(s), and by the collective society forming the context for both. Several insurmountable webs of karmic cause-effect relationships have come into play, for which no autosoteriological efforts, practiced with the most exacting consistency, over the course of a zillion lifetimes will ever atone or compensate conclusively.Neither Jnana yoga nor visualization of chakras or their corresponding colors and biija mantras can make it right......if anything, such efforts tend to bury one deeper in the karmic web, by offering some (very real) occult powers, which will be coveted by the unregenerate and misused for egoistic sense-gratification and control over Nature and her creatures (including other people).

There is, however, a very simple (but not "easy") solution to Man's dilemma:in Bhagavad Gita, chapter 8, Lord Krishna (the Supreme Personality of Godhead) explains to Arjuna that one's final object of ideation at the end of an incarnation is the determinant of one's afterlife.......if that object of ideation is Krishna Himself (Who can only be understood by those conversant with the trancendental dynamic of Love and any or all of the nine procedures for cultivating Bhakti ( engagement in the Lord's ,devotional service {which the Lord most Mercifully enables} ), Krishna then reciprocates in Love and Mercy, intervening directly to save His devotee from the ultimately miserable and otherwise nonending wheel of birth, death, and subsequent rebirth. If not, by His truly infinite Love and Mercy, He has given each soul an infinite number of opportunities in an infinite number of lifetimes in 8,400,000 (Vedically demarcated) species of living beings to qualify for the ever-enduring and truly transcendental bliss that characterizes this eternal conscious engagement in His service.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead- Krishna- of truly infinite Patience and Love- wants each and every soul to return back Home to Godhead- to the Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual world, from whence there is never a return to the prison-house of material suffering, and where every day is an adventure in a place and condition, of which all love affairs on the physical plane are, at best, merely pale reflections. No one is excluded from participation in this......when (at different points in time), this earth's Adolf Hitlers, Jeffrey Dahmers, John Wayne Gaceys, Charles Mansons and bhuvana-mohan dasas have arrived at the point of selfless Love of God, then He will Mercifully lift them from His Lotus Feet where they lay prostrate and receive them into His most tender embrace. He will have saved them all from their own poor choices. Each may take as long ah he/she wishes, and (in theory, at least) the possibilty exists that some will never avail themselves of God's Mercy. They will always have the opportunity to do so......:).

All misery arising from mistaken identification of the self with the material body is ultimately reducible to one root cause, according to my spiritual master: We have forgotten our relationship with Krishna. This problem admits of but one solution: In humility, studiously undertake to restore that relationship. The method is beautifully simple: dedicate your life to drawing His Holy Names from your heart, and encourage others to terminate their misery by doing likewise. i pray that all may find their way back Home to God before i do......

ys,

bmd.

[CleoSquare]

My own view is that Mental illness covers a huge spectrum of disorders/problems from anxiety based issues that can often be overcome by relaxation and cognitive behavioural therapy and correct spiritual grounding to problems caused by childhood attachments and deep seated abuse to the major illness such as bipolar and schizophrenia.

Some of these disorders may be as utterly physical as say heart disease. Some people are born with a tendancy towards heart disease, and unhealthy lifestyle can trigger it, but there are some people who do everything healthily and still develop it...

Schizophrenia is a physical condition, but of course if you smoke weed, you increase your of developing it 12 fold if vulnerable, however, sadly there are people, through no fault of their own develop it.

[Margie23]

Dear BMD, thanks for your response...had me a whole long post go `POOF` so will come back this later..not to mention i was logged out against my will..lol

Much Love
Margie

[TamTam]

If an individual is "born with" a tendency toward mental illness, how come? Do you think maybe God just up and arbitrarily decides that one segment of the population shall be His "nutcases" who shall have free reign to act as predators on the remainder of society, and have no ultimate accountability before God or human society? Are you content to leave questions like this an unsolveable "mystery", and will you pick and choose delicacies from the colorful smorgiasbord of religious eclecticism, going with whatever "seems right" to you at any given moment- or wll you not rather, in humility, concede that there is greater wisdom available than your own immediate thoughts and inclinations, and having made that concession, why would you want to make it any less than your personal lifetime desideratum to align yourself with that wisdom? .....even if that wisdom accomodates suffering and finds usefulness for it as an educative tool?

ys,
bmd.Very long reply below:

I do not know why some people become mentally ill and others do not. I know that it is usually hereditary and usually skips a generation. I know that those who are severly mentally ill can "reason" and appear normal one minute and like the snap of a finger, be in an entirely different world in their mind the next minute. I know this because my mother is severly mentally ill. Bi-Polar Schizophrenic and has been so my entire life ( I am 36 yr. old now). I know the disease of severe mental illness on a very personal level and not only did on live with it through my mother the entire time I was growing up but I have studied it in great detail as a way to better understand her and why she does the "crazy" things she does. It is an ugly, sad and debilitating disease and it is hereditary and is brought on by physical reactions and lack of nessary chemicals in the brain. It is also interesting to me that my husband's sister suffers from the same mental disease as my mother and is currently in the hospital for the 6th time because of it (she is only 26 years old.

You ask if I am happy with my eclectic beliefs, if I am happy to leave some things to "mystery"... the answer is yes and yes. It took me many years before I was able and willing to HUMBLY accept that all belief systems have some good to offer. My eclectic beliefs have given me "grounding", they have given me the opportunity to relate to people of all different beliefs and backgrounds, they have given me understanding and peace and most of all, they have given me a greater love for my fellow man. For me on a personal level, they have given me life and joy and gra***ude for life... how could I not be happy about that? As far as leaving some things to mystery ... there will always be things that are "mysterious". I will not "know it all" in this life. I live and learn and as my knowledge and experience increase, so does my understanding and my beliefs on particular issues. I have always been very "in tune" to things not of this world, however, I leave it to God to show me what he/she/it wants me to know at any given time. I don't need to know it all right now, nor do I believe that me knowing it all will determine if I am in a "heaven or hell" when I die.

I live, I love and I do the best I know how with the knowledge and experience that God has blessed me with at any given time. I believe it all is about love, plain and simple. Love is the key to everything. I have no concern with "getting even" or seeing others suffer for their mistakes. I have no desire to see vengence wrought out on another human being. I have been through far too many horific things in my lifetime to ever want to see another human being go through even 1/10 of what I have.

It doesn't bother me if people view my "peace, light and love" stance as "new age" or "fruity". It works for me. It has bettered my life and the lives of those around me. I am grateful for my "pick and choose" beliefs and I wouldn't have it any other way at this point in my life.


We as human beings base our beliefs on what we have learned and what we experience personally. That is why there are so many different belief systems out there. I have learned it wise to base my beliefs on what I know and have experienced rather than on what other people think I should believe. I do learn from other's beliefs and am gratefu that others share their beliefs with me and give me something to consider, however, that does not mean that I will embrase those beliefs as my own.

From the words of your post to me (which come across as quite judgemental and harsh. I truly hope it was not your intention to come across this way) it seems that you have the impression that I have no humility and am void of recognizing or embrasing wisdom greater than myself. I admit that I am always asking God for greater humility and understanding so that I can better love however, it would be incorrect to ***ume that I don't believe in "a greater wisdom" and it would be even more incorrect to ***ume that I do not embrase "greater wisdom" when God shows it to me and teaches me how to incorporate it into my life. Humility does not equal humiliation. They are too very different things. I do not have to feel "less than" anyone else to live in humility.

It is not my life's ambition to figure out the mysteries of the Universe. It is my life's ambition to be open to God and receptive to the love, knowledge and answers that God wants me to learn, in that God's time and way, not mine. I will know what I need to know when I need to know it.

Blessings and love to you.

[Trinity]

My own view is that Mental illness covers a huge spectrum of disorders/problems from anxiety based issues that can often be overcome by relaxation and cognitive behavioural therapy and correct spiritual grounding to problems caused by childhood attachments and deep seated abuse to the major illness such as bipolar and schizophrenia.

Some of these disorders may be as utterly physical as say heart disease. Some people are born with a tendancy towards heart disease, and unhealthy lifestyle can trigger it, but there are some people who do everything healthily and still develop it...

Schizophrenia is a physical condition, but of course if you smoke weed, you increase your of developing it 12 fold if vulnerable, however, sadly there are people, through no fault of their own develop it.

There is a mental illness that is purely accidental. I have a sister who had lacked of oxygen at her brain when she was born. She has a mental age of a baby of two years old. She suffered all her life but she is sinless. Not a big consolation. It is difficult to find a reasonable explanation (philosophically and spiritually) for her brain damages, unless she have a particular mission in this life. And perhaps we (my family) are concerned by this mission. Perhaps this is about us.

Trinity

[TamTam]

There is a mental illness that is purely accidental. I have a sister who had lacked of oxygen at her brain when she was born. She has a mental age of a baby of two years old. She suffered all her life but she is sinless. Not a big consolation. It is difficult to find a reasonable explanation (philosophically and spiritually) for her brain damages, unless she have a particular mission in this life. And perhaps we (my family) are concerned by this mission. Perhaps this is about us.

Trinity
Hi Trinity. Thank you for sharing with us about your personal experience.

My own personal belief (of course this is just my belief) is that some things just are. We humans could spend our entire lives trying to figure out why everything is the way it is... thus driving us crazy with questions that just lead to more questions. I used to do this with my own life. Why was I born into a home where my father abused me to the age of 13, why born into a home where my mother was so mentally ill, why are we so financially broke when everyone I know is well off, why does my body have so many illnesses when everyone I know is so healthy, why did I have to have a hystorectomy at the age of 27 when all three of my sisters have easy pregnancies and can pop babies out like it's nothing, why, why, why..... it drove me to drink, literally. haha

Now days I don't even spend time on the "why", I just spend time on the "this is just how it is, now how can I use this to better my life and the lives of those around me".

What a load off my shoulders this new way of thinking has been. It's so freeing and liberating. For myself I have found that when I stopped focusing on the "why", it opened up my heart and my mind to the opportunities of the situation that I was not able to see before.

The way I see it, life can be hard enough without adding any more "whys" to it. The "whys" just drive me crazy. The "what can I learn from this and how can I use it to better my life and the lives of those around me" is much more enlightening and productive. IMO of course.

Blessings.

[Margie23]

Dearest friend BMD, i agree with the karma and do hold the same beleif as you do for #3...we come into this life with something to "do"..to set the record straight of sorts, and to change it's cyle both within and without..As for variables and such..it's all so interdependant of our own very personnal paths and "karmic loops"..we also come into this life with a veil of sorts, but it's all so very perfect as we set out on our own missions to come home to who we really are and re-member...we are divine sparks of god and it is in this lifeitme, we come to that very precious knowing that all was in divine perfect order...all paths are good no matter how hard they are such in the case of dalmer, mental illness,etc, and no matter what religious/spiritual connection you serve....For me it's always about the highest good for all..not just myself..as we work thru our personnal karmic cycles, we complete that which we came here to do..and now we lovingly march forward in all the perfection that we are..sharing our experiences freely without the need to convert anyone or calim our knowing as "the absolute knowing"...

I would also like to say dear TamTam, that i was deeply moved by what you wrote...my heart sings :)

Blessings and love to all
Margie

[CleoSquare]

Thanks for sharing that Trinity- I worked for many years with children with cerebral palsy, so I know what you talk about. I also have very close personal experience of bipolar disorder- and so understand first hand that experience too.

I guess despite much prayer, I have never really seen a major miracle occur, although I have seen many people claim healings of colds and headaches. I tend to take the view that when God does not heal us, then he can be alongside us in our afflictions.

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

Not meaning to suggest that you're not humble or don't acknowledge greater wisdom than you now possess, Tam (nor that you're doomed to an "eternal hell" if you don't believe as i do).....i apologize for leaving you with that impression. (Most all the time), i express myself too bluntly and carelessly. As your friend, i regard it as my personal responsibility to offer you a straight line between points A and B, if it occurs to me that (in my own eyes) you are on a path fraught with curvature and dangerous detours. Forgive, please, the personal interest i take in wanting to spare you that suffering.

ys,
bmd.

[sunofmysoul]

I'm not sure what you mean.

My understanding of reincarnation (just from what I have read about it and from friends who believe in it) is that there is a heaven after this life and reincarnation is a choice, meaning that if you want to go back and be incarnated again into another body, you can but you can also chose to stay in heaven.

Reincarnation seems plausable. It would certianly explain a few things such as: Child prodigys, dejavu, unexplainable debilitating personal fears, memories of living out another person's life in the past as if it were your own, speaking a language you have never learned in this life or even heard other people speak before, going to a new place and feeling like you have been there before and being totally comfortable with it, knowing where things were and the local history of the people and environment as if you had lived there yourself. It would explain like some people constantly feel they were meant for "bigger or better" things or why some people have a natural ability to do things that no one else in their family has any talant for or interest in. It would also explain why you can meet someone for the first time and feel like you have known them your whole life and instantly connect with them as if the two of you have a history together.


Like I said, I really don't know what I think of reincarnation at this point. I think it is plausable like many other things are plausable, I just haven't made up my mind on it all.
ah tam! :)
i understand exactly what you are saying here...
(especially the not having it all figured out part yet :D)
my questions on reincarnation came from the question of what happens to babies when they die...
within Christianity i was given a couple answers.
1. babies are under a "blanket of grace" and will get to go to heaven...cause the did not reach the age of accountability...(which all sounds nice cept...its not in the Bible...(that i could find)
2. they will go to hell (yes some denominations actually believe this!!!!!!)

and also, what about a person who becomes weak....depressed and at that teensie moment in time...takes too many pills and ends it all...

etc etc...
these types of scenarios made me begin to wonder how "justice" could/would be served if one did not get to make "rational" decisions in this life...
to justify where one ends up in the next...
(is this making any sense?)

then i ran into several people who had testimonies of unexplained events/memories which also gave probably cause into further study on the matter.

The thought of where do we get our fears/phobias...was another one...
that led me to thoughts of causes by either reincarnation or genetic mapping in a evolution theory , both by previous death or bad encounters causing the
either "memory" or genetic mapping of the fear to be given.

I am enjoying your posts very much as always tam...:)

with love,
somsy

[TamTam]

Not meaning to suggest that you're not humble or don't acknowledge greater wisdom than you now possess, Tam (nor that you're doomed to an "eternal hell" if you don't believe as i do).....i apologize for leaving you with that impression. (Most all the time), i express myself too bluntly and carelessly. As your friend, i regard it as my personal responsibility to offer you a straight line between points A and B, if it occurs to me that (in my own eyes) you are on a path fraught with curvature and dangerous detours. Forgive, please, the personal interest i take in wanting to spare you that suffering.

ys,
bmd.Thank you for these kind words, bhuvana. I too have a tendancy at times to jump to the "blunt" of things with my words. I work on it daily as it often gets me in trouble. haha

I can understand your desire to see me follow those beliefs that you truly feel in your heart are correct. I think we have all experienced that desire for another at different times. I will continue to follow the path that I believe God is leading me down, around, over and up (hehe) but I do appreciate your concern for me.

Blessings to you

Tam

[TamTam]

ah tam! :)
i understand exactly what you are saying here...
(especially the not having it all figured out part yet :D)
my questions on reincarnation came from the question of what happens to babies when they die...
within Christianity i was given a couple answers.
1. babies are under a "blanket of grace" and will get to go to heaven...cause the did not reach the age of accountability...(which all sounds nice cept...its not in the Bible...(that i could find)
2. they will go to hell (yes some denominations actually believe this!!!!!!)

and also, what about a person who becomes weak....depressed and at that teensie moment in time...takes too many pills and ends it all...

etc etc...
these types of scenarios made me begin to wonder how "justice" could/would be served if one did not get to make "rational" decisions in this life...
to justify where one ends up in the next...
(is this making any sense?)

then i ran into several people who had testimonies of unexplained events/memories which also gave probably cause into further study on the matter.

The thought of where do we get our fears/phobias...was another one...
that led me to thoughts of causes by either reincarnation or genetic mapping in a evolution theory , both by previous death or bad encounters causing the
either "memory" or genetic mapping of the fear to be given.

I am enjoying your posts very much as always tam...:)

with love,
somsyI always enjoy your posts too, SOMS.

Much of what you said above resinates with me. I was raised in the Mormon church as a child so the idea of babies going to heaven was never an issue with me as Mormons believe that all children under the age of 8 go to "the celestial kingdom" (the highest degree of lds heavens". However, lds are very against reincarnation. So for me, as a child, I used to think "why do we believe that we pre-existed and that babies go to heaven no matter what but our members say it is cultish and of the devil to believe in reincarnation?" It seemed like such a contradiction. Then of course in my late 20's I left the llds church and became a die-hard, bible thumping, preach it, teach it, born-again Christian.... that just created another set of questions much like what you have stated. I started to re-think the whole reincarnation things again.

I am still thinking about it. May spend my whole life learning about it or being interested in it. I definetly have not made my mind up on it yet, however, I do find it fasinating.

Blessings sweet SOMS

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

Thank you for these kind words, bhuvana. I too have a tendancy at times to jump to the "blunt" of things with my words. I work on it daily as it often gets me in trouble. haha

I can understand your desire to see me follow those beliefs that you truly feel in your heart are correct. I think we have all experienced that desire for another at different times. I will continue to follow the path that I believe God is leading me down, around, over and up (hehe) but I do appreciate your concern for me.

Blessings to you

Tam

Tam, i don't ask you to "follow", but to consider. It isn't real easy to become a Hare Krishna.....i'm not a "recruiter"
(shuttup, soms!....:D), just a kind of ornery and highly opinionated old HK....my best wishes and prayers will accompany you in your search for God-
may He find you...:)...

ys,
bmd.

[TRiG]

I really do believe in sending water gra***ude and love, and it's been scientifically shown how just doing that changes its molecular structure back to it's purest form.

What?

I seriously find it difficult to believe that someone typed that sentence.

TRiG.:confused:

[sunofmysoul]

What?

I seriously find it difficult to believe that someone typed that sentence.

TRiG.:confused:

oh be nice TRiG....:p
seriously have you seen the experiments done on water molecules and its response to positive /negative influence? or different types of music?

it is intriguing to me...
(like the particle slit experiment...)

[Tatanka_Maza]

I know the New Age Movement is mainly influenced by the Eastern philosophy, especially Buddhism and Hinduism. Also the movement contains Native American beliefs and Carl Jung's teachings of collective unconscious. You might be right. I purchased a book from a used bookstore today. The book is called, "The Everything World's Religions Book" by Robert Pollock. It mentions the followers are looking to a New World Order that would end wars, pollutions, poverty, and discrimination.


Just to note that the various New agey practices have nothing to do with traditional native ways and beliefs. By and large, we can't stand the newagers, as most of them are culture vultures and spiritual pirates who will latch on to anything that appears "cool".

[TRiG]

Just to note that the various New agey practices have nothing to do with traditional native ways and beliefs. By and large, we can't stand the newagers, as most of them are culture vultures and spiritual pirates who will latch on to anything that appears "cool".I'm sure New Agers are fond of things like dream-catchers (while probably understanding their cultural context no more than I do). As you say, vultures.

TRiG.:)

[Tatanka_Maza]

I'm sure New Agers are fond of things like dream-catchers (while probably understanding their cultural context no more than I do). As you say, vultures.

TRiG.:)

If it were only *dreamcatchers* it wouldn't be that big of an issue. It is the wholesale appropriation and exploitation of our traditional ways for personal gain. Go into any bookstore and look in either the new age section, or if they have a *Native American* section. None of the books there are written by legitimate native spiritual people, but rather self styled *medicine men* (and women) who mix up an eclectic blend of various tribal traditions with a hodge podge of new agey airy fairy ****. The public reads this garbage, thinks it is the real deal, and when encountering a genuine traditional native, dismisses our true beliefs as nonsense. People who try to practice the horse hockey published in these books often get hurt, or hurt others, spiritually and sometimes physically.

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

If it were only *dreamcatchers* it wouldn't be that big of an issue. It is the wholesale appropriation and exploitation of our traditional ways for personal gain. Go into any bookstore and look in either the new age section, or if they have a *Native American* section. None of the books there are written by legitimate native spiritual people, but rather self styled *medicine men* (and women) who mix up an eclectic blend of various tribal traditions with a hodge podge of new agey airy fairy ****. The public reads this garbage, thinks it is the real deal, and when encountering a genuine traditional native, dismisses our true beliefs as nonsense. People who try to practice the horse hockey published in these books often get hurt, or hurt others, spiritually and sometimes physically.

i agree, Tatanka.......they have done the same to Native American tradition as to the Vedic......they've squeezed out novelties like "affirmations" (Mantras) and reincarnation......and turned their yuppie backs on accountability and morality.....

ys,
bmd.

[Apologette]

The fact is that New Agers readily embrace Hinduism. For instance, in our town in the wilderness mountains, a regular enclave for New Agers who control most of the tourist enterprises, the New Agers embrace Hindu phallic symbols, lingams I think they're called, used for Shiva worship. They sell these little phallic stones in the streets to bring world peace. When I pointed out to the lady that these were simply phallic symbols - she said they came from some river in India, and this river makes phallic symbols out of stones (I guess so that they can be sold by New Agers - who will buy into just about anything). New Agers also practice forms of Hinduism, thinking that it is superior to Christianity, I suppose. Hard to believe that worshipping mythical deities could be superior to knowing the Living God - but, of course, there is a spiritual blindness which prevades this area.

[TRiG]

Hard to believe that worshipping mythical deities could be superior to knowing the Living God.Ah, arrogance. The casual dismissive tone you use while talking to people you disagree with is evidence of a rather unpleasant personality. And besides, you have no more evidence that your god is alive than anyone else here has that theirs is.

As has just been pointed out, the New Agers don't really accept Hinduism, or Native American spirituality, or anything much. They just pick out the bits they find pretty. We called them vultures. Perhaps they'd be better described as magpies.

I suppose what these people really want is mysticism, and perhaps the appeal of the unfamiliar. Of course, Christianity too has a mystic tradition, though it's uncommon these days. And if you want a group which is (a) within the general Christian tradition while being suitably heterodox to have the appeal of the unfamiliar, and (b) mystic, there's always the Gnostics.

But real Gosticism, real Mystic Christianity, or real Hinduism for that matter, take effort. Which is why the magpies don't do it, and just collect their crystals instead.

TRiG.

[alanmolstad]

I was listening to Pastor Joe Shimmel from Blessed Hope Chapel as he spoke about the New Age movement. He stated that it is his personal belief that satan is using the New Age movement to prepare the people of the world so they will be in the right state of mind and heart to embrace the kingdom of anti-christ when it is revealed.

There's no doubt that many of the prophecies dealing with the man of sin have some of the same elements as the New Age ideology. What do the rest of you think?
there is some signs that Pastor Joe Shimmel is correct....
For the teachings that were seen as strange to the church now have worked their way down into the church...