Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the "Book of Abraham"

[BrianH]

Dr. Stephen Thompson is a member of the LDS church and a qualified Egyptologist. He received his Bachelors of Arts in Near Eastern Studies from Brigham Young University in 1984. He received his Masters of Arts and his Doctor of Philosophy in Egyptology from Brown University in 1988 and 1991, respectively. As such, we should regard him as informed on matters of Egyptology and his opinion of the document represented by his own church as the supposed original autograph of the “Book of Abraham”, allegedly written by Abraham himself. Had Dr. Thompson concluded his study of the BoA m****cript by endorsing it as authentic, certainly Mormons everywhere (including here in this forum) would be trumpeting his findings and proclaiming his un-questionable authority to draw informed conclusions about the authenticity of the BoA.

So what does this Mormon Egyptologist and scholar say about the Book of Abraham?

HERE (http://www.lds-mormon.com/thompson_book_of_abraham.shtml) is his article en***led, “Egyptology and the Book of Abraham”

(http://www.lds-mormon.com/thompson_book_of_abraham.shtml)

Dr. Thompson provides numerous clear and substantial reasons to dismiss the BoA as a fraud. His conclusion reads as follows


In the preceding I have argued that (1) Joseph Smith's interpretations of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham are not in agreement with the meanings which these figures had in their original, funerary, context; (2) anachronisms in the text of the book make it impossible that it was translated from a text written by Abraham himself; and (3) what we know about the relationship between Egypt and Asia renders the account of the attempted sacrifice of Abraham extremely implausible. If one accepts that Joseph Smith was using the facsimiles in a fashion which was not consonant with their original purpose, it does not make sense to then insist that "the Prophet's explanations of each of the facsimiles accord with present understanding of Egyptian religious practices." I see no evidence that Joseph Smith had a correct conception of "Egyptian religious practices" or that a knowledge of such was essential to the production of the Book of Abraham.

Mormons ...please explain why we should think that your so-called “prophet” really did translate the “Book of Abraham” correctly when, in fact, literally every single qualified Egyptologist who has ever examined the language and images from which the BoA was translated –supposedly by miraculous, divinely inspired means- has concluded that Joe Smith had no idea what he was talking about and that the original papyrus was nothing more than just another example of the normative funeral documents uniquely ***ociated with the pagan religion and mythology of 1st century Egypt. In fact, even all LDS experts (including BOTH Mormon Egyptologists – Dr. Thompson and Dr. Gee) have failed to substantiate the BoA translation and Dr. Thompson even provides several clear and fully substantiated reasons to conclude that Smith’s “divine revelation” was a fake.

Again, if Thompson had confirmed some portion of the BoA as having actually been correctly translated from the original papyrus, we most certainly WOULD be hearing about it ad-nausem. The LDS SILENCE and/or avoidance here in this thread will tell us all we really need to know about their own insecurity and inability to deal with the FACT that their beloved “scripture” is nothing but a lame hoax.

[BigJulie]

If you are going to take Stephen Thompson seriously as a scholar and what he says regarding any scripture in regards to history:


Although not a contributor to New Approaches to the Book of Mormon,1 Stephen E. Thompson is nonetheless an active partisan of the view that the Book of Mormon is nineteenth-century frontier fiction. Thompson's most revealing previous essay is "Balancing Acts."2 In it he explicitly denies the virgin birth of Christ, seriously doubts the resurrection (in what way, then, is Jesus the Son of God?),

http://maxwellins***ute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=4&num=2&id=103

Thompson not only rejects the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon, he also rejects the teachings of the New Testament as a testament of Jesus Christ as possibly the Son of God.

As I believe he is wrong on his "scholarly" interpretation of the NT, why would I then turn around and believe "scholarly" interpretation of any scripture.

[BrianH]

If you are going to take Stephen Thompson seriously as a scholar and what he says regarding any scripture in regards to history:


Although not a contributor to New Approaches to the Book of Mormon,1 Stephen E. Thompson is nonetheless an active partisan of the view that the Book of Mormon is nineteenth-century frontier fiction. Thompson's most revealing previous essay is "Balancing Acts."2 In it he explicitly denies the virgin birth of Christ, seriously doubts the resurrection (in what way, then, is Jesus the Son of God?),

http://maxwellins***ute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=4&num=2&id=103

Thompson not only rejects the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon, he also rejects the teachings of the New Testament as a testament of Jesus Christ as possibly the Son of God.

As I believe he is wrong on his "scholarly" interpretation of the NT, why would I then turn around and believe "scholarly" interpretation of any scripture.

I have no obligation to regard his opinions of the NT simply because he has no expertise on that matter and does not claim any. BTW, he ALSO has no authority on matters matters related to nuclear physics, Chinese music or invertebrate biology, so I really don't care what he things about those things either. Dr. Thompson DOES, however, hold a PhD in Egyptology - therefore his opinon on matters related to his recognized expertise is worthy of some respect ...respect that YOU cannot bother with for the simple reason that his qualified expertise violates your programmed emotional reactions.

Maybe some day you will be able to see how silly your "arguments" really are, Julie.

But probably not.

-BH

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[BigJulie]

I have no obligation to regard his opinions of the NT simply because he has no expertise on that matter and does not claim any. BTW, he ALSO has no authority on matters matters related to nuclear physics, Chinese music or invertebrate biology, so I really don't care what he things about those things either. Dr. Thompson DOES, however, hold a PhD in Egyptology - therefore his opinon on matters related to his recognized expertise is worthy of some respect ...respect that YOU cannot bother with for the simple reason that his qualified expertise violates your programmed emotional reactions.

Maybe some day you will be able to see how silly your "arguments" really are, Julie.

But probably not.

-BH

.

Oh brother. So, to you, a degree in Egyptology has absolutely nothing to do with theology then? Well, he feels like his Ph.D. gives him some knowledge regarding ancient writings--but I can see you differ. Interesting.

[BrianH]

Oh brother. So, to you, a degree in Egyptology has absolutely nothing to do with theology then?

You are kidding right? Of course a degree in Egyptology has nothing to do with theology. Do you actually think a degree in Egyptology has ANYTHING to do with theology? Do you know ANYTHING about what you are talking about here or are you as uninformed as you appear to be? Are you aware of the fact that most Eqyptologists have no particluar theological orientation?

Suppose you do more than just emote and do your best to actually formulate a reasoned argument as to WHY we should think your boy Smith actually translated your so-called "Book of Abraham" correctly in light of the FACT that exactly ZERO egyptologists have accepted that translation as anything more than a bad joke, INCLUDING all BOTH LDS Egyptologists.


Well, he feels like his Ph.D. gives him some knowledge regarding ancient writings--but I can see you differ. Interesting.

YOU are the one who must see "differ". This highly qualified Egyptologist has joined the universal consensus of ALL Egyptologists and debunked YOUR so-called scripture, Julie. Are you going to do something more than just treat us to your emotional reactions or are you going to get serious and start dealign with the reality that your entire religion is nothing but a patheticly lame hoax?

-BH

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[BigJulie]

YOU are the one who must see "differ". This highly qualified Egyptologist has joined the universal consensus of ALL Egyptologists and debunked YOUR so-called scripture, Julie. Are you going to do something more than just treat us to your emotional reactions or are you going to get serious and start dealign with the reality that your entire religion is nothing but a patheticly lame hoax?

-BH

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I do differ--he obviously feels his training lets him speculate on the Book of Abraham as well as the New Testament or the theology of both in a secular fashion because he has done both. I just disagree with his ***essments. But I ***ure you Brian--if you would like to find other scholars who disagree with your ***essment of the Bible, I am sure they exist. While you may choose to argue with each for the validation of your faith, I don't see the need. It would be comparable to arguing over whether Thomas Edison really did invent the light bulb. I have the bulb---it works. Likewise, I have lived by the doctrines taught and have observed they are true. Any amount of scholarly neigh-saying is just that--whether it is in regards to the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham or the Bible. To me, they are all the same.

[BrianH]

I do differ--he obviously feels his training not only lets him speculate on the Book of Abraham as well as the New Testament or the theology of both in a secular fashion because he has done both. I just disagree with his ***essments. But I ***ure you Brian--if you would like to find other scholars who disagree with your ***essment of the Bible, I am sure they exist. While you may choose to argue with each for the validation of your faith, I don't see the need. It would be comparable to arguing over Thomas Edison really did invent the light bulb. I have the bulb---it works. Likewise, I have lived by the doctrines taught and have observed they are true. Any amount of scholarly neigh-saying is just that--whether it is in regards to the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham or the Bible. To me, they are all the same.

Okay Julie, do your very best to actually read these words carefully enough to actually understand them, K?

Dr. Thompson's insights are not "speculation". They are his professional ***essment based on his clearly demonstrated and recognized expertise on a topic about which you obviously know exactly NOTHING. Furthermore, his ***essment is functionally identical to the universal consensus of all other qualified Egyptologists who also recognize that your boy Smith was lying through his teeth when he pretended to translate this all-too-common funeral documentation into the so-called, "Book of Abraham".

How you have lived or not lived is IRRELEVANT to the question of the linguistic authenticity and accuracy of Smith's obviously pretneded "translation". The question of the fidelity of this supposed "translation" is answerable just as are ALL questions of translation - by LINGUISTIC means.

Go ahead and continue to pretend that your life somehow confirms the accuracy of translation of Egyptian texts. You only mock yourself and Mormonism every time you try to pull that silly trick.

Meanwhile the indisputable FACT remains that 100% of all qualified Egyptologists (including LDS Egyptologists) have confirmed that the Sensen papyrus is simply another copy of the usual "Breathign Permits" found almost everywhere Egyptian mummies from about the 1st century have been unearthed.

Do you REALLY believe that the Egyptians were in the habbit of burying their dead with copies of "the Book of Abraham"? Are you REALLY that gullible and clueless?

-BH

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[That Guy]

Julie is confusing. Thompson's expertise deals with the language. The theology of the BoA is absolutely irrelevant if the translation is a complete hoax.

Whatever Thompson's opinions are about Jesus is irrelevant to the nature of the translation of the BoA as well.

Egyptology has nothing to do with theology. Thompson's integrity is not in question simply because he has an opinion about the origins of the Christian faith. Such a conclusion is audacious.

[BrianH]

Relevance is apparently not important to Julie.

It seems that she needs only express her emotions and we are all supposed to just believe what she has been told to "think".

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

Julie is confusing. Thompson's expertise deals with the language. The theology of the BoA is absolutely irrelevant if the translation is a complete hoax.

Whatever Thompson's opinions are about Jesus is irrelevant to the nature of the translation of the BoA as well.

Egyptology has nothing to do with theology. Thompson's integrity is not in question simply because he has an opinion about the origins of the Christian faith. Such a conclusion is audacious.

Okay, we can look at the theology of the Book of Abraham. Here is one quote: Joseph Smith is "an authentic religious genious, unique in our natural history" with "insight [that] could hav only come from a remarkably apt reading of the Bible...so strong was this act of reading that it broke through all orthodoxies---Protestant, Catholic, Judaic--and found its way back to elements that Smith rightly intuited had been censored out of storeis of the archaic Jewish religion." Harold Bloom

[BrianH]

Okay, we can look at the theology of the Book of Abraham. Here is one quote: Joseph Smith is "an authentic religious genious, unique in our natural history" with "insight [that] could hav only come from a remarkably apt reading of the Bible...so strong was this act of reading that it broke through all orthodoxies---Protestant, Catholic, Judaic--and found its way back to elements that Smith rightly intuited had been censored out of storeis of the archaic Jewish religion." Harold Bloom

Julie ...here's an idea. Instead of just executing the programming that causes you to instantly retreat to some LDS website to copy and then paste some lame boilerplate excuse prepared for the unthinking, unquestioning LDS "faithful" - suppose you simply SHOW US some actual reason to dispute Dr. Thompson's confirmation of the universal consensus of Egyptologists that Joseph Smith had no idea what he was talking about when it comes to the translation of an easily recognized Egyptian funeral document into the so-called, "Book of Abraham".

Can you even imagine how silly it would make you look if you publically claimed that you had received a "revelation from God" that a copy of the Magna Carta was REEEEEEAAALY a Japanese cookbook?
-BH

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[BigJulie]

Julie ...here's an idea. Instead of just executing the programming that causes you to instantly retreat to some LDS website to copy and then paste some lame boilerplate excuse prepared for the unthinking, unquestioning LDS "faithful" - suppose you simply SHOW US some actual reason to dispute Dr. Thompson's confirmation of the universal consensus of Egyptologists that Joseph Smith had no idea what he was talking about when it comes to the translation of an easily recognized Egyptian funeral document into the so-called, "Book of Abraham".

Can you even imagine how silly it would make you look if you publically claimed that you had received a "revelation from God" that a copy of the Magna Carta was REEEEEEAAALY a Japanese cookbook?
-BH

.

Once again--my life is my proof. When I apply what is taught in the Book of Abraham to my life, my life is better. I understand basic truths that improve the way I perceive the world and I can avoid the traps of Satan. Let's just look at one of the truths taught in Abraham--that we were intelligences--that our very natures have existed forever.

From Abraham:
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

Now, this answers the question as to why evil exists not only in this world, but out of this world (with Satan) as well. It answers why some were chosen to be leaders and what predestination means. It also explains that God loves us all and why He created a plan in which all can overcome their natures--and that we are all God's children and that He loves us all. It also explains why that gender is not neutral and we have a purpose for being here.

[BrianH]

Once again--my life is my proof. When I apply what is taught in the Book of Abraham to my life, my life is better. I understand basic truths that improve the way I perceive the world and I can avoid the traps of Satan. Let's just look at one of the truths taught in Abraham--that we were intelligences--that our very natures have existed forever.

Total and complete nonsense. Your "life" is not proof that Smith translated ANYTHING correctly any more than anyone else's life is proof that anything else was translated correctly. No one confirms translations by referring to their "life" - except Mormons who obviously cannot do anything else to support this claim. Meanwhile the universal consensus of all qualified linguists (including the few qualified Mormon linguists) uniformly agrees that Smith's translation of this text is based on the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Here is a clue for ya: the Egyptian Book of the Dead is no more the "Book of Abraham" than the U.S. Cons***ution is technical manual for computer programmers.

But, again, since this document (known among Egyptologists as a "Breathing Permit") is so common and is routinely found buried with ~1st century Egyptian mummies, please do, by all means, feel free to explain WHY you "think" that the Egyptians routinely buried their dead with copies of the "Book of Abraham".


From Abraham:
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

Now, this answers the question as to why evil exists not only in this world, but out of this world (with Satan) as well. It answers why some were chosen to be leaders and what predestination means. It also explains that God loves us all and why He created a plan in which all can overcome their natures--and that we are all God's children and that He loves us all. It also explains why that gender is not neutral and we have a purpose for being here.

This is a good example of how utterly irrational one must be to cling so desperately to the claims of Mormonism: You have just committed the logical fallacy known as the "circular argument". Citing the BoA translation as evidence of the authenticity of the BoA translation is meaningless. The problem (since it appears that I need to explain this to you) is that it is the translation YOU just cited that is in question here. Simply REPEATING what you have been programmed to "think" by your handlers is simply no reason to think that this "translation" is correct.

This FACT remains unchallenged: Dr. Thompson, a qualified Egyptologist and a Mormon has clearly stated that there is no connection here between the actual document that was Smith's source and the "Book of Abraham" resulting from Smith's supposed divine revelation of the content of this document. Mindlessly regurgitating what you have been told to "think" only proves that you are unable to engage on this topic even when you get around to trying to avoid changing the subject.

-BH

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[That Guy]

Okay, we can look at the theology of the Book of Abraham. Here is one quote: Joseph Smith is "an authentic religious genious, unique in our natural history" with "insight [that] could hav only come from a remarkably apt reading of the Bible...so strong was this act of reading that it broke through all orthodoxies---Protestant, Catholic, Judaic--and found its way back to elements that Smith rightly intuited had been censored out of storeis of the archaic Jewish religion." Harold Bloom

Are you quoting Bloom's book "The American Religion"? Interesting you would reach to an outside non-LDS source to qualify your argument.

[BrianH]

I note with interest that there is still no coherent LDS support for the claims of the LDS organization about this document.

Nor has anyone even TRIED to show us where Mormon Egyptologist, Dr. Thompson, has erred in his debunking of the LDS "scripture" known as the "Book of Abraham". So far all we have seen from the LDS camp is the usual desperate effort to change the subject into an attack on the Bible. I cannot help but wonder if the Mormons do not just get tired of this obviously evasive behavior.

If you Mormon guys knew that you were telling the truth, I would expect you to do more than just run away from this challenge as you are clearly doing right now. I would have expected you to at least TRY to refute Dr. Thompson's scholarship.

But alas for Mormons everywhere, experience has shown that you will not even TRY.

-BH

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[jdjhere]

Wow. Interesting.

[BrianH]

Still no answer.

Over a month, 220 hits and a couple dozen LDS responses, but still no actual answer. As usual, it has become obvious that no Mormon can step up and even TRY to refute Dr. Thompson's debunking of the so-called "scriptures" of his own church.

Let's explain what is going on here. If the Book of Abraham is a fraud, then the man who claimed it was a revelation from God was a liar and the BoA is precise and inescapable proof that this man is a FALSE prophet, pretending to speak for God while deceiving people to follow a lie all the way to hell.

I would think that at least a few Mormons would be able to muster up the tiny bit of personal honesty to admit that they have been deceived. But, no. Instead they will continue to ignore (or derail) this thread and several others where their own deception is so clearly on display. This is what happens to people when they become Mormons folks.

Beware.

-BH

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[HopefulSaint]

Dr. Stephen Thompson is a member of the LDS church and a qualified Egyptologist..

So you believe that there are LDS people who are qualified scholars? That's a good start for you.

And you trust this LDS person's conclusions?

But wait: You said that to be LDS, a person must be "utterly irrational" so what are you doing trusting the statements of someone you brand utterly irrational ?

Is that a rational thing for you to do? If LDS people are totally unable to think because being LDS removes their ability to be anything but brainwashed, unthinking zombies, then what are you doing placing your trust in Steve Thompson?

[BrianH]

So you believe that there are LDS people who are qualified scholars? That's a good start for you.

And you trust this LDS person's conclusions?

But wait: You said that to be LDS, a person must be "utterly irrational" so what are you doing trusting the statements of someone you brand utterly irrational ?

Is that a rational thing for you to do? If LDS people are totally unable to think because being LDS removes their ability to be anything but brainwashed, unthinking zombies, then what are you doing placing your trust in Steve Thompson?

Obviously Richard knows he cannot refute the facts that Dr. Thompson has documented and which prove the LDS "scriptures" are fake. So, as usual, all he can do is stand in the back of the room and quibble and whimper and jeer. Its the FACTS that you are struggling with, Richard - not the man who is giving them a voice. Dr. Thompson has simply concurred with the universal consensus of all qualified experts on this matter. The problem you face is not whether or not Dr. Thompson is a Mormon; the problem you are struggling to avoid is the FACT that he has proven that you have been played like a card by one of the most imbecilic hoaxes ever perpetrated. That you continue to actually DEFEND this proven lie shows us just how utterly deceived you really are. That you can only even pretend to do so by cat-calling and whimpering is proof that you are simply not even close to being adequately prepared to enter this discussion.

I can only thank you for once again PROVING rather conclusively, by your own behavior, just how vaccuous the LDS apologetic really is. Please continue to demonstrate your incompetence relative to the task of showing us any reason to think Dr. Thompson and all of his collegues are wrong and that Joe Smith was right.

-BH

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[onceblind]

Some people here may not know this.......(and frankly, I wouldn't expect them to, since they don't come from the emotional starting point so evident in the postings of "Big Julie" and other Mormons I've read on this site.)

You see, the posters who refer to factual sources and quote legitimate scholars do not understand the lengths that Mormons will go to to "disprove" what you are saying, because they are EMOTIONALLY-INVESTED in the things they are saying, and are frantically "tap-dancing" to keep one step ahead of the doubt that you are casting on the fact that they simply CAN'T disprove the evidence that you have written about, yet they DON'T DARE QUESTION what they've been told, because if they did, they'd have NOTHING to cling to to replace it.

How do I know this? I've BEEN THERE..........

There's something about the Mormon church that many people are apparently unaware of, and that is that most Mormons are VERY unfamiliar with the teachings of the Bible itself, because they are NOT taught about the Bible as a "free-standing" resource (if you will).

What they are taught is all about what the Book of Mormon says, and 90% of their church "talks" (something like a sermon, but generally on topics "relevant" to "Mormon living"). It is also instructive to know that most Mormons What they are taught is all about what the Book of Mormon says, and 90% of their church "talks" (something like a sermon, but generally on topics "relevant" to "Mormon living"). It is also instructive to know that most Mormons know little or nothing of the teachings of the Bible itself, as most of the emphasis in their "Sunday School" cl***es, and the main part of their Sunday church meetings afterwards stress the teachings of the Book of Mormon.

Also, one does need to know that for most Mormons, the basis for their faith is contained in the "Articles of Faith", something that every Mormon memorizes, and which contains the following statement as "Article 8": "8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

Those unfamiliar with Mormon doctrine (or who haven't yet dealt with Mormons) need to know that the phrase "as far as it is translated correctly", means that "wherever the Bible disagrees with the Book of Mormon" (and by extension, their other books), "THE BIBLE IS WRONG."

Now, they WILL NOT come out and say this to you, but, believe me, that is EXACTLY what they are thinking, because that's what they are told.

They are also conditioned to believe that your attempts to "disprove" Mormon doctrinal teachings are an "attack" on the Mormon Church, so the first thing you need to realize is that when they hear anything that is "critical" of anything to do with their church or what it teaches, they become defensive.

When a Mormon person is in that mindset and thinks you are "attacking" the (LDS) Church, they basically "shut down", and you might as well stop talking.

What Christians need to realize is that it is FAR BETTER to ask questions about Mormon doctrine that will lead to the person actually questioning what the Church leaders have told them.

For example, if you want the person to continue to listen to you, ask them WHY they believe certain things....such as "WHY do you want to be "married in the Temple"? (Remember, though, that they will not tell you about the "ceremony" that is performed there, and DON'T bother asking about it, because it isn't relevant to the point.) WHat you are interested in is the "WHY", and you may be surprised to find out that they actually don't know, and can't give you much of an answer other than, "because I want to"...(Hey, I couldn't!).

But I digress. In reading what "Big Julie" has written, I can immediately see that she is engaging in what I call the "emotional defense" of Mormonism, and I completely understand, because that's where I came from.

For example, I spoke about the Mormon Pioneers in a high school English cl*** and was "hurt" that the other students didn't feel the same way I did about what these "pioneers" went through, because I was emotionally-invested in their EXPERIENCES, and that is where many Mormons STOP -- at the "experience". (In fact, one other thing that they
will tell you is that "you need to pray about it, and will know the truth of the Mormon church 'through faith'".)

Christians are usually at a loss when they hear that, because we have been told to be able to give an answer about "the hope that lies within you", but that isn't where the Mormon is coming from -- he or she is coming from the notion that the "truth" of Mormonism will be revealed though a "burning in your bosom", and that's NOT "reasoning", it's "emotion".

It is from this emotional basis that "Big Julie" and others are operating, and that is the one thing I have seen being overlooked by those who seek to provide rational answers here, you don't realize that EMOTION is the element most in play here, and until you can get past that, you are literally "spitting into the wind".

(I have to go now, but I welcome any comments and will be happy to post here again.)

[Phoenix]

Since you said you welcome comments, here is one for you: Your blindness has yet to be cured.

[RealFakeHair]

Since you said you welcome comments, here is one for you: Your blindness has yet to be cured.

Ha.ha. This blind leading the blind!

[Erundur]

Ha.ha. This blind leading the blind!
Exactly. Blind anti-Mormons teaching other blind anti-Mormons what Mormons supposedly think and believe.

[RealFakeHair]

Exactly. Blind anti-Mormons teaching other blind anti-Mormons what Mormons supposedly think and believe.

Here is your chance Erundur, Tell us again how Joseph Smith jr. Translated the Egyptian book of the Dead into the Book of Abraham?
Come on give it your best shot.

[Erundur]

Here is your chance Erundur, Tell us again how Joseph Smith jr. Translated the Egyptian book of the Dead into the Book of Abraham?
Come on give it your best shot.
I don't think I told you the first time. But you're changing the subject. Here's your chance to back up onceblind's ***ertions.

[RealFakeHair]

I don't think I told you the first time. But you're changing the subject. Here's your chance to back up onceblind's ***ertions.

I think the LDSinc. Got all their ideas on how to defend their faith from Sears and Roebuck invention of the (bait-switch).
Once again tell me just how Joseph Smith jr Was able to take the Egyptian Book of the Dead and turn it into the LDSinc. Book of Abraham? quite a trick aint it?

[Erundur]

I think the LDSinc. Got all their ideas on how to defend their faith from Sears and Roebuck invention of the (bait-switch).
That's nice. But I take it you can't back up onceblind's ***ertions, then?

[RealFakeHair]

I don't think I told you the first time. But you're changing the subject. Here's your chance to back up onceblind's ***ertions.

Oh, I apologize, did (onceblind) mention the Book of Abraham?

[Erundur]

Oh, I apologize, did (onceblind) mention the Book of Abraham?
Nope, he didn't.

[RealFakeHair]

Nope, he didn't.

Then I don't understand why I should back up his or her ***ertions?

[Erundur]

Then I don't understand why I should back up his or her ***ertions?
Okay, then don't and I will continue to reject them.

[RealFakeHair]

Okay, then don't and I will continue to reject them.

Reject what? common sense!

[jdjhere]

Actually BrianH started this thread and it IS about Joseph Smiths Translation of the Book of Abraham so actually RealFakeHair was getting us BACK on subject so lets stay with it. I would love to see an answer to post #1 in this thread?

[dberrie2000]

Mormons ...please explain why we should think that your so-called “prophet” really did translate the “Book of Abraham” correctly when, in fact, literally every single qualified Egyptologist who has ever examined the language and images from which the BoA was translated –supposedly by miraculous, divinely inspired means- has concluded that Joe Smith had no idea what he was talking about and that the original papyrus was nothing more than just another example of the normative funeral documents uniquely ***ociated with the pagan religion and mythology of 1st century Egypt.

Since we have only about 15% of the original papyri extant today--then how would one come to that conclusion?


In fact, even all LDS experts (including BOTH Mormon Egyptologists – Dr. Thompson and Dr. Gee) have failed to substantiate the BoA translation

If one is referring to the Book of Abraham text--there is nothing extant today to compare that translation to. There is certainly no connection between the extant papyri and the Book of Abraham text. One would have to examine the missing 85% of the papyri to come to any conclusion the Book of Abraham text did not have any roots in the missing papyri.