One God and Father of all [Archive] - Walter Martin Ministries Forum

dberrie2000

07-19-2012, 05:17 AM

dberrie----Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post---All of God's creation.

dberrie---Does that include all spirits also?

Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?

Oh? So you believe that the "Father" here in Ephesians is Jesus Christ?

Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all,"

Who is the "one Lord" here?

Billyray

07-19-2012, 08:40 AM

Oh? So you believe that the "Father" here in Ephesians is Jesus Christ?

No. The Father is the Father.

Billyray

07-19-2012, 08:42 AM

Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all,"

You didn't answer my question.

Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?

dberrie2000

07-20-2012, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all,"

You didn't answer my question.

Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?

More boundary maintenance to a faith alone theology.

Ephesians does not state that Jesus was the God and Father of all--that points to God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

If your postulation that the "one God and Father of all" is a reference to Christ--then that is a direct contradiction to what Christ declared.

The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

Is that some spirits--or all spirits?

James Banta

07-20-2012, 08:25 AM

More boundary maintenance to a faith alone theology.

Ephesians does not state that Jesus was the God and Father of all--that points to God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

If your postulation that the "one God and Father of all" is a reference to Christ--then that is a direct contradiction to what Christ declared.

The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

Is that some spirits--or all spirits?

Do you deny that God is the the Father of all? Do you deny that Jesus is called the Mighty God the Everlasting Father? Why can't the same thing be said of Him at all time is all meaning? You are again taking the word out of context of the complete Biblical text.. Do you also deny the context that Jesus is God? That He created ALL thing both visible and invisible? What is there about the Bible you will not deny in your false doctrines? IHS jim

Billyray

07-20-2012, 09:15 AM

The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

The scriptures say let "US" make man in our image and it says in the NT that Jesus made all things viable and invisible. So you are wrong. Agree?

Billyray

07-20-2012, 09:22 AM

Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

Is that some spirits--or all spirits?

Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.

James Banta

07-20-2012, 09:40 AM

Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.

AND the scripture does call Him the mighty God, the everlasting Father.. IHS jim

dberrie2000

07-21-2012, 06:33 PM

Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.

Cite, please. Please give any scripture that specifically gives Jesus Christ as the Father of spirits.

There is but one specific designation of the Father of spirits--and that is God the Father.

And the spirits were Fathered before they were believers. The spirit came first.

So--if Jesus Christ created all spirits--then could you explain the explanation of Christ:

John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

If that is true--then Christ was not the Father of those spirits--but His God and Father was--God the Father.

And if this scripture is true--then none of the spirits were Fathered by Christ:

Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

If Christ deferred to His God and Father as the Father of Himself and His brethren--then that means that at least some of the spirits He was not the Father of.

And as Ephesians states that God the Father was the Father of all--that puts all the spirits as being Fathered by God the Father. Jesus Christ is exempted from any responsibility there, if that is true, seeing that Christ has already stated that both He and His brethren were Fathered by His God and Father.

That means the "one God and Father of all" must be a ***le to God the Father only.

Billyray

07-21-2012, 11:21 PM

Cite, please. Please give any scripture that specifically gives Jesus Christ as the Father of spirits.

Colossians 1:16*For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

dberrie2000

10-18-2012, 02:32 PM

Colossians 1:16*For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

John 1:3---King James Version (KJV)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Obviously--some things were not made. For example--Christ did not make His God and Father. That is a power in heaven--right?

Neither did He made the spirits:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

If Christ had a God and Father that was the same God and Father of men--then Christ did not make them either.

But the scriptures do identify who did Father the spirits:

Hebrews 12:9----King James Version (KJV)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Billyray

10-18-2012, 03:16 PM

Obviously--some things were not made. For example--Christ did not make His God and Father. That is a power in heaven--right?
Right Jesus did not make the Father because the single God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) have been eternally God. But I ***ume that you believe that Jesus has made everything both visible and invisible. Right?

Billyray

10-18-2012, 03:52 PM

Neither did He made the spirits:

And how did you come to that conclusion?

alanmolstad

10-18-2012, 04:42 PM

What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

That all men have one God.
That there is only one God.

dberrie2000

10-18-2012, 04:51 PM

That all men have one God.
That there is only one God.

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If there is but the "one God"--then it does not include Jesus Christ, in the NT Bible.

Billyray

10-18-2012, 04:55 PM

[
If there is but the "one God"--then it does not include Jesus Christ, in the NT Bible.
I still don't understand what point you are trying to make by this argument of yours. Could you explain it for me?

alanmolstad

10-18-2012, 04:57 PM

I was talking at the door with a JW on that verse...

He was attempting to use this verse to prove that Jesus was not God, because it says there is but one God.

But I pointed out that if the verse is teaching that ONLY the father is God and not the Son, then it also teaching that only Jesus is the Lord, because there is only ONE LORD!!!!

and the Bible says that Jehovah is "Lord of Lords"

"Therefore the Father cant be Jehovah" I told him.

Unless.....

Unless the way the Mormons and the JWs are attempting to use this verse is in error.( and thats the case by the way)

dberrie2000

10-18-2012, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

That all men have one God.
That there is only one God.

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If there is but the "one God"--then it does not include Jesus Christ, in the NT Bible.

I was talking at the door with a JW on that verse...

He was attempting to use this verse to prove that Jesus was not God, because it says there is but one God.

I do not think the Bible makes that point. Both Jesus and God the Father are Gods. The Bible just makes the point they are two different Gods.

God the Father is the God of Jesus Christ. And the only one to ever be referred to as the "one God".

But I pointed out that if the verse is teaching that ONLY the father is God and not the Son,

But that is not true--the Bible has both Jesus Christ and His God as Gods--among a number of other gods.

And the Bible has both God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ as Lord:

Matthew 22:44--King James Version (KJV)

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

This is the Father's address to the Son--and shows they were two different Lords also.

alanmolstad

10-18-2012, 05:37 PM

The Bible says there is only one Lord...not 2....

Just as the Bible says there is but one God, not 2.....or 3...or 36 and 1/2 billion....

dberrie2000

10-18-2012, 07:06 PM

The Bible says there is only one Lord...not 2....

The Bible states this:

Matthew 22:44--King James Version (KJV)

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Why would they split the Lords if there was not two of them?

Just as the Bible says there is but one God, not 2.....or 3...or 36 and 1/2 billion....

But the "one God" of the NT was never designated as Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Billyray

10-18-2012, 07:24 PM

But the "one God" of the NT was never designated as Jesus Christ:

Which means what exactly in your mind?

alanmolstad

10-18-2012, 07:29 PM

dberrie2000

10-19-2012, 07:10 AM

yes, just read in 1 Corinthians 8:6 "and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ"

"One Lord"

not 2 Lords....

The Bible says one and so you got to ask yourself, "Do I believe the Bible at that verse or not?"

And 1 Cor8:6 explains there is but "one God" :

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Does that mean that God the Father is the only God--seeing that Jesus Christ is not included in that designation of "one God"?

Billyray

10-19-2012, 07:42 AM

Does that mean that God the Father is the only God--seeing that Jesus Christ is not included in that designation of "one God"?

There is only a single God as defined by many Biblical verses. Right?

Billyray

10-19-2012, 02:08 PM

John 1:3---King James Version (KJV)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

What wasn't made by Jesus?

alanmolstad

01-27-2014, 12:48 PM

"There is one body, .....The Body is the Church.
and one Spirit, the Spirit here is found only within the church.

even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;...The calling is only found from the church

5 One Lord, This is the Lord found in the church's teachings

one faith, The christian faith.

one baptism,.....of the christian believer

6 One God .....For the believer, although for the non-believer there are many false gods.

and Father The God is father for the believer as we are his children.
There are other fathers as we see in the Text for the nonbelievers were said to have as their father "The devil"

of all, [/B]who is above all, and through all, and in you all."...the "all" is the church of believers.

So what this means is that Satan and the demons have God as their "creator", for the term "Creator" describes the work God did....God "created' all things.

But Satan and the demons do not have God as their own "father" for that term is describing the loving relationship that the believers have with the lord.
He is our "Father" and that makes us his "children"....for children do the work of their father. and have a loving relationship of father and child.

Satan and the demons have no such a relationship with god.

dberrie2000

10-05-2014, 06:09 AM

alanmolstad

10-05-2014, 10:38 AM

"all" = me

When we believe the Lord comes into our hearts and lives in us....
Therefore the "all" talked about in the verse is being defined as the "church" of the "body of Christ".....for that is they who are said to be the 'body" of Christ in the world, we are the "light" of the world....we are the hands and feet of God in the world as we bring the light to they who stumble in darkness....

So in a very real way I feel blessed enough to answer that the "all" talked about in the verse is...."me"

dberrie2000

10-05-2014, 04:12 PM

One God and Father of all

Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

"all" = me

What is your evidence the "all" is limited to just you?

Therefore the "all" talked about in the verse is being defined as the "church" of the "body of Christ".

No doubt it included that--but what is your evidence it is limited to just the church? What is your evidence that God the Father is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

dberrie2000

08-17-2016, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post One God and Father of all

Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post"all" = me

What is your evidence the "all" is limited to just you?

Therefore the "all" talked about in the verse is being defined as the "church" of the "body of Christ".

No doubt it included that--but what is your evidence it is limited to just the church? What is your evidence that God the Father is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Anyone?

Berean

01-16-2017, 11:10 AM

What is your evidence the "all" is limited to just you?

No doubt it included that--but what is your evidence it is limited to just the church? What is your evidence that God the Father is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Anyone?

Nonsense.

Uninformed Mormon doublespeak.

In the first place, you're obviously attempting to use (according to Mormon teaching), a corrupt and unreliable source for your "proof text;" The Bible, to prove a false doctrine. Which is laughable.

Under those conditions, you are surely destined to fail. And especially since some of us actually know what the Bible teaches and are here to correct you, with all diligence, patience and long-suffering. 2 Tim 4:

I only need two Bible verses to prove the Mormon doctrine of eternal progression wrong.

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,

Genesis 2:7
Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And I only need one Mormon verse, to also prove you wrong.

Mosiah 5:7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

When your own "scriptures" (and I use that term loosely) prove you wrong, that's bad.

I can understand why you don't believe the Bible, since it has been deemed a work of Satan by your "prophets." (and I use that term loosely).

Why don't you believe your own "scriptures?" (and I use that term loosely)

Obviously you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Next.

Christian

01-18-2017, 11:28 AM

Do you deny that God is the the Father of all? Do you deny that Jesus is called the Mighty God the Everlasting Father? Why can't the same thing be said of Him at all time is all meaning? You are again taking the word out of context of the complete Biblical text.. Do you also deny the context that Jesus is God? That He created ALL thing both visible and invisible? What is there about the Bible you will not deny in your false doctrines? IHS jim

I have pointed out to berry that text out of context is pretext, but he insists on posting pretext anyway. Some people NEVER learn ANYTHING.

Berean

01-23-2017, 10:47 AM

I have pointed out to berry that text out of context is pretext, but he insists on posting pretext anyway. Some people NEVER learn ANYTHING.

I think it's more a matter of bully pride than anything. There's no way DBerrie does not understand faith alone doctrine, or that the Bible clearly teaches that salvation is NOT by works. The best way to make a Mormon troll disappear is to quote contradicting Mormon "scriptures" (and I use that term loosely) and ask them to explain the contradiction. But notice they will never do that, because they simply can't. Instead DBerrie attempts to turn the tables on us, but he has to confound the truth to do that.

Everything about Mormonism is a lie and DBerrie is probably tired of being made a complete fool of trying to defend those lies. So he lashes out in hatred and anger with dishonest and false arguments. And by doing so, in his mind he thinks he has won. Even though everyone else knows better. Does anyone remember Bert from the 80's sit-com, SOAP? When Bert was confronted with something he was embarr***ed for, he would wave his hands and snap his fingers and then ***ume that he would become invisible and no one could see him. Mormons as much as do that same thing when confronted with the truth about their religion. They disappear.

DBerrie is only good at taking Scriptures out of context and setting up straw men arguments that present fake inconsistencies designed to cause the Bible to line up with false Mormon doctrines, but that's only because he doesn't have a clue how to explain away the very real problems with his own false religion, so he ignores them. That's why DBerrie never tries to defend Mormonism when we point out all of the glaring inconsistencies with his false religion. Instead he attempts to focus the attention away from that reality, to his intentionally dishonest doctrinal arguments against the truth of the Bible. We don't have to go out of our way to contrive anything to prove Mormonism is a false religion, all we need is facts, but DBerrie must spin falsehoods and lies in an attempt to prove his false arguments.

Bullies are just cowards in reality. DBerrie is probably some mush-brained teenager living in his mothers basement. If not, then he sure has us fooled.

Christian

01-29-2017, 05:21 PM

Do you NOT believe Jesus is GOD?

dberrie2000

02-06-2017, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post What is your evidence the "all" is limited to just you?

No doubt it included that--but what is your evidence it is limited to just the church? What is your evidence that God the Father is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Anyone?

In the first place, you're obviously attempting to use (according to Mormon teaching), a corrupt and unreliable source for your "proof text;" The Bible, to prove a false doctrine. Which is laughable.

The LDS do not believe the Biblical text is "laughable".

Again--what is your evidence God the Father is not the Father of all spirits which is placed in mankind?

Under those conditions, you are surely destined to fail. And especially since some of us actually know what the Bible teaches and are here to correct you, with all diligence, patience and long-suffering. 2 Tim 4:

I only need two Bible verses to prove the Mormon doctrine of eternal progression wrong.

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,

Genesis 2:7
Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Please do explain how either of those verses somehow negate the fact the scriptures testify God the Father is the Father of spirits?

And I only need one Mormon verse, to also prove you wrong.

Mosiah 5:7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

That is a reference to the adoption--which occurs for those who have faith in Christ---years after the spirit is already present in the body.

It does nothing to account for the origins of the spirit. There are many who will never have the adoption--because of unbelief--but they still have a spirit within their body--which the scriptures testify is Fathered by God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,

And which are the offspring of God:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

alanmolstad

08-28-2017, 05:14 AM

What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?
In any question about a word found in the Bible, you have to always look at the word in it's correct context.

When dealing with the term "Father" we are looking at people that are in a father/child relationship with their Lord.

Now we know for a fact that God is not the father of all, for Jesus tells the evil men that were against him that they were doing the will of their father the Devil...

So while the text may say that God is the Father of all, we know this is to be understood within the context of "all believers" and not all people as God is not the Father of the unbelievers.

alanmolstad

09-08-2017, 10:53 PM

In any question about a word found in the Bible, you have to always look at the word in it's correct context.

When dealing with the term "Father" we are looking at people that are in a father/child relationship with their Lord.

Now we know for a fact that God is not the father of all, for Jesus tells the evil men that were against him that they were doing the will of their father the Devil...

So while the text may say that God is the Father of all, we know this is to be understood within the context of "all believers" and not all people as God is not the Father of the unbelievers.

I like getting the last word...

dberrie2000

09-11-2017, 04:11 PM

In any question about a word found in the Bible, you have to always look at the word in it's correct context.

When dealing with the term "Father" we are looking at people that are in a father/child relationship with their Lord.

Now we know for a fact that God is not the father of all,

Could you tell us what God is the Father of the remainder of spirits--if He is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,and live?

Ephesians4:4-6:
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

alanmolstad

09-11-2017, 09:28 PM

again, God is the father to all they that he has a relationship with...
This is why even if Gid is the creator of all men, and that all men have a spirit or a soul, yet God is not the father of all men because Jesus said that some men have Satan as their Father....

So Gid is the Father to all that he has a relationship as their father with, and he is not the father of they that he has no relationship with...

Satan is not the creator of men, but he is the father of some men...

This is also the case when the Bible talks about a place prepared for "the devil and his angels>,,,

So while we know that the Devil did not create any spirits, yet it is clear some angels are "his"

alanmolstad

09-11-2017, 09:31 PM

Could you tell us what God is the Father of the remainder of spirits--if He is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,and live?

Ephesians4:4-6:
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

The "all" is clairfied for us as talking about the people that believe, and have the love of God in their hearts...

And as the Bible does say that this is not true with all men, it thus shows us that while the Lord is the creator of all men, he is yet the father to all they that have the love of God in their hearts.....and not all do.....and the Lord is not their father at all, because the Bible tells us clearly that the Devil is the Father of some men.........

alanmolstad

09-11-2017, 09:41 PM

Could you tell us what God is the Father of the remainder of spirits--if He is not the Father of all spirits?

see John 8:44......

Who is their "father"?

alanmolstad

09-12-2017, 08:59 PM

so as we see and as I have shown- the Bible talks about the fact that some people are called the child of God, while other people are called the children of the Devil.

This is at the very heart of the Bible's use of the term "Father" for it is speaking to us about "Relationships"

People that are called the children of God , are said to have God as their "Father"
Yet, the people that are called the children of the Devil are said to have satan as their "Father"

So both God and Satan are called different people's "Father" in the Bible.

This is all because the people have a relationship that brings God or Satan into a "Father-Son" relationship with them.

dberrie2000

09-29-2017, 08:08 AM

see John 8:44......

Who is their "father"?

So--is your claim that satan is the god who created the remainder of spirits?

dberrie2000

09-29-2017, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Could you tell us what God is the Father of the remainder of spirits--if He is not the Father of all spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,and live?

Ephesians4:4-6:
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

The "all" is clairfied for us as talking about the people that believe,

I don't find that clarification in the "Father of all"--only in those whom the Father dwells.

alanmolstad

09-30-2017, 05:27 AM

So--is your claim that satan is the god who created the remainder of spirits?

The "creator" is a term that talks about who "made" things...

The "Father" is a term that talks about the relationship somone has with another.

This is why Jesus is the "Creator" of all things, yet later Jesus could tell some even men that Satan was their "Father".

Jesus was pointing out that while GOD might be the creator of all , he yet is not the "Father" to some.

To sum up>
You have to understand that there is a big difference between the use of the terms "Father" and "Creator"
and once you understand this fact you will catch-on to what the Bible is talking about.

alanmolstad

09-30-2017, 05:39 AM

I don't find that clarification in the "Father of all"--only in those whom the Father dwells.

In some of my debates with people on the book of Genesis, I have to sometimes point out that the Bible tells us that Eve was the
mother of all the living",. or in the Hebrew I think it actually reads that she was the "mother of all life"

So the Bible does literally say that Eve was the mother of all the living.....we understand this to be talking about "only people"....but that the Bible does say she was the mother of all the living" is not in doubt.

So unless you understand that the term "all" in the Bible as being always subject to the context, you have Eve being the mother of Adam,,,(for Adam was the only "living human" at the time).....or that Eve was the mother of all life, including snails and sharks and trees. etc....things created before her.

So in the Bible we see clearly that the term "all" is always limited to the context.

It's like when you walk into a bar the day your daughter gets married and shout "Drinks for everyone!" ....the "everyone" you mean is all they at the bar at that moment...
You dont mean everyone on the Earth.....LOL

alanmolstad

09-30-2017, 05:44 AM

Let me know if you have a question about any answer I have posted for you to read???

I tried to get to every question you asked of me, and I hope I have not overlooked any of your posted comments to me.

dberrie2000

09-30-2017, 07:58 AM

The "creator" is a term that talks about who "made" things...

The "Father" is a term that talks about the relationship somone has with another.

And, in this case--the two is combined--as God the Father is both the creator and Father of the spirits--as earthly fathers are the creator and father of our flesh:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,and live?

IOW--fathering is a creative act. Offspring are always of the same species as their Father:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

alanmolstad

09-30-2017, 08:02 AM

alanmolstad

09-30-2017, 08:08 AM

so when the Bible tells us that some people are children of the Devil , does this mean they were created by the devil?.....NO!

When the Bible tells us that some people have the Devil as their "Father" does this mean they were created by the devil?....No!!!

what we see therefore now clearly is that God can be the Father , and God can be the creator, but God is the creator of the heavens and the earth, while he is the Father of only they who that share that type of father/son relationship with him...

thats why Satan is also called the Father

Thats why some people are called the children of the Devil....etc

dberrie2000

09-30-2017, 08:12 AM

"This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child"

as quoted from the Bible at 1st John 3:10

and as supports my teaching here that the use of the term "father" is based only on the relationship the person has with the other person.

calling a person "father" does not mean they were the "creator"

It does if they were the originator of the offspring:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Alan--your quote above is in reference to the adoption--long after the spirit and body are originated by a F(f)ather. We make choices during our time of accountability which determines who we are adopted to--and they become our father--in adoption, not the originator.

IOW--the spirit and the body have been present a long time before we make choices, and either become the child of the devil--or God the Son. That does not in any way account for the origins of the physical body or the spirit.

alanmolstad

09-30-2017, 08:23 AM

It does if they were the originator of the offspring:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Alan--your quote above is in reference to the adoption--long after the spirit and body are originated by a F(f)ather. We make choices during our time of accountability which determines who we are adopted to--and they become our father--in adoption, not the originator.

IOW--the spirit and the body have been present a long time before we make choices, and either become the child of the devil--or God the Son. That does not in any way account for the origins of the physical body or the spirit.

we learn in the Bible that God is the creator of all things....

This comes out clearly in Genesis, where it says - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

So God is clearly the creator of all things.
Both the things seen and unseen.

But God is only the "Father" to they that he has this same type of Father/son relationship with.

To be called a "creator" is because you made something.

This is why the evil men are said to be the children of the devil.
They are not said to be created by the devil.
The devil did not make them...

The devil is not the creator.

But the devil is their father.

They are his children.

So you can be a child of the devil without needing to be created by the devil.

This is what the Bible teaches about the term "creator" and "Father"

any questions?

dberrie2000

09-30-2017, 12:43 PM

we learn in the Bible that God is the creator of all things....

Fathering is a creational act--whether it be the physical or the spiritual:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,and live?

IOW--fathering is a creative act. Offspring are always of the same species as their Father:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

But God is only the "Father" to they that he has this same type of Father/son relationship with.

The scriptures testify God the Father is the Father of all spirits:

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The devil is not the creator. But the devil is their father. They are his children.

That is long after the fact they had a previous F(f)ather in the flesh--and the spirit:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,and live?

Again, Alan--they BECOME the children of satan because of their choices--which is years after the spirit and the flesh is F(f)athered.