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Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 03:13 PM
The ***le of this thread seems to be a land in which I live...and I am not alone.

Anyone ever find yourself caught in the middle of the battle of faith?

James Banta
10-07-2012, 03:25 PM
The ***le of this thread seems to be a land in which I live...and I am not alone.

Anyone ever find yourself caught in the middle of the battle of faith?

If you believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and the BofM is the word of God you are mormon. If you believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father that He the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the eternal God who created ALL THINGS and in Him is salvation and He GIVES that salvation to all who believe then you are Christian.. Mormonism is about what you can do to earn God grace, Christianity is about what God has DONE.. IHS jim

Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 03:29 PM
If you believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and the BofM is the word of God you are mormon. If you believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father that He the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the eternal God who created ALL THINGS and in Him is salvation and He GIVES that salvation to all who believe then you are Christian.. Mormonism is about what you can do to earn God grace, Christianity is about what God has DONE.. IHS jim
I agree with both.

James Banta
10-07-2012, 03:34 PM
I agree with both.

Since Joseph Smith taught that God BECAME GOD, it is hard to believe both Him and the Bible that teaches that from everlasting to everlasting God is God.. You are going to have to choose which one you believe God's word the Bible or Joseph Smith. They are completely out of agreement.. IHS jim

Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 03:44 PM
Since Joseph Smith taught that God BECAME GOD, it is hard to believe both Him and the Bible that teaches that from everlasting to everlasting God is God.. You are going to have to choose which one you believe God's word the Bible or Joseph Smith. They are completely out of agreement.. IHS jim

Christ taught this...Joseph expand on this teaching. However since Christ can been seen as the Father in so many ways I believe that KFD was about Christ.

Apologette
10-07-2012, 03:44 PM
I agree with both.

Ironically, I was in a similar situation. I was the only conservative in an Episcopal Church. I had been raised in that Church, but by a miracle of God's grace, got saved at 28. I really tried to stay in the Church "where I was planted," but when they started ordaining women priests and bishops, some even suggesting that same-sexed couples should be married, and other non-biblical things, I finally left. Jesus was more important to me than acceptance at that Church. Of course, I was labeled a "bible thumper" and a "radical" and "uncharitable," and so on. But even those things didn't deter me.

I remember once I was at a liberal Episcopal Bible study and the priest started getting on me about being very fundamental about the bible. He said, well do you think that if your hand offends you, you should cut it off? Or, do you think if your eye offends you, you should pluck it out? You see you can't take the bible literally!

I really didn't know what to say, but of all things, a female priest (who just happened to be a genuine Christian) said, "well, Father, you know those are Hebraic hyperboles!" In other words, a rabbi would say such things to make a point. In this case, Rabbi Jesus was making a point about holiness.

Well, kind of ironic I know that the "female priest," came to my aid, and I didn't even believe in women priests (and still don't by the way). I think the Mormons are right on that score. But, I never forgot the lesson God gave me - sometimes the ones you expect the least of, will be the ones who give the most.

That female priest, Mother Betsy, was really a wonderful woman. We got to be friends. She eventually moved out of the NJ diocese due to its liberalness and went north to the "baretta belt," (a place of conservative Episcopal priests) where she ministered in the deaf ministry. You can imagine how sad I was when I learned she had died of a brain tumor - and so young - only in her late thirties I believe.

Strangely, the priest who tied to get me to admit that the Bible couldn't be God's infallible word in all its part, also died of cancer at a relatively young age. But, I believe he was a true believer, and with the Lord...just contaminated by the liberal seminaries turning out Episcopal priests.

So, if you want a maze of craziness just try being a conservative Christian in an Episcopal Church.

Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 03:50 PM
Ironically, I was in a similar situation. I was the only conservative in an Episcopal Church. I had been raised in that Church, but by a miracle of God's grace, got saved at 28. I really tried to stay in the Church "where I was planted," but when they started ordaining women priests and bishops, some even suggesting that same-sexed couples should be married, and other non-biblical things, I finally left. Jesus was more important to me than acceptance at that Church. Of course, I was labeled a "bible thumper" and a "radical" and "uncharitable," and so on. But even those things didn't deter me.

I remember once I was at a liberal Episcopal Bible study and the priest started getting on me about being very fundamental about the bible. He said, well do you think that if your hand offends you, you should cut it off? Or, do you think if your eye offends you, you should pluck it out? You see you can't take the bible literally!

I really didn't know what to say, but of all things, a female priest (who just happened to be a genuine Christian) said, "well, Father, you know those are Hebraic hyperboles!" In other words, a rabbi would say such things to make a point. In this case, Rabbi Jesus was making a point about holiness.

Well, kind of ironic I know that the "female priest," came to my aid, and I didn't even believe in women priests (and still don't by the way). I think the Mormons are right on that score. But, I never forgot the lesson God gave me - sometimes the ones you expect the least of, will be the ones who give the most.

That female priest, Mother Betsy, was really a wonderful woman. We got to be friends. She eventually moved out of the NJ diocese due to its liberalness and went north to the "baretta belt," (a place of conservative Episcopal priests) where she ministered in the deaf ministry. You can imagine how sad I was when I learned she had died of a brain tumor - and so young - only in her late thirties I believe.

Strangely, the priest who tied to get me to admit that the Bible couldn't be God's infallible word in all its part, also died of cancer at a relatively young age. But, I believe he was a true believer, and with the Lord...just contaminated by the liberal seminaries turning out Episcopal priests.

So, if you want a maze of craziness just try being a conservative Christian in an Episcopal Church.
The problem is that everyone has some true, and few have it all...so where do we "live"?

Apologette
10-07-2012, 03:57 PM
The problem is that everyone has some true, and few have it all...so where do we "live"?

I guess, we can only put our hand in God's and go where he takes us. I tell you, when I left the Episcopal Church I felt hopeless and homeless. But, over time I learned to appreciate the Charismatics, Pentecostals, the Baptists, and the Lutherans, all of who gave us shelter. I learned that there are believers in every Church (maybe even the Episcopal Church). I learned a little from each group, until at last I feel comfortable in any Christian Church. And also, I learned to have a best friend who was a Mormon believe it or not.

In the end, God led us to a little fellowship of believers who had separated from the Episcopal Church. Now I have the best of both worlds - the Anglican liturgy once a month, and Calvary Chapels the other three Sundays. To tell you the truth, if God hadn't dealt with me, I never would have chosen to go to a Calvary Chapel - but now I can't wait to get there!

Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 04:01 PM
I guess, we can only put our hand in God's and go where he takes us. I tell you, when I left the Episcopal Church I felt hopeless and homeless. But, over time I learned to appreciate the Charismatics, Pentecostals, the Baptists, and the Lutherans, all of who gave us shelter. I learned that there are believers in every Church (maybe even the Episcopal Church). I learned a little from each group, until at last I feel comfortable in any Christian Church. And also, I learned to have a best friend who was a Mormon believe it or not.

In the end, God led us to a little fellowship of believers who had separated from the Episcopal Church. Now I have the best of both worlds - the Anglican liturgy once a month, and Calvary Chapels the other three Sundays. To tell you the truth, if God hadn't dealt with me, I never would have chosen to go to a Calvary Chapel - but now I can't wait to get there!if I had a choice of who to hear each week in the EV world it would Charles Swinall. (hope I spelled it right) I miss GBH.

Apologette
10-07-2012, 04:06 PM
if I had a choice of who to hear each week in the EV world it would Charles Swinall. (hope I spelled it right) I miss GBH.

Charles Swindoll is a good man. Did you ever listen to any of the sermons of Donald Gray Barnhouse. He's one of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6V578z6eaM

Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 04:13 PM
Charles Swindoll is a good man. Did you ever listen to any of the sermons of Donald Gray Barnhouse. He's one of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6V578z6eaM

I listened to Dr Swinwdoll for years on my lunch break every day for years.

Apologette
10-07-2012, 04:53 PM
I listened to Dr Swinwdoll for years on my lunch break every day for years.

You can watch him on video as well:

http://www.insight.org/video/insights/

Pa Pa
10-07-2012, 05:02 PM
You can watch him on video as well:

http://www.insight.org/video/insights/

Wow...he has aged! He is a great orator.

James Banta
10-07-2012, 05:22 PM
Christ taught this...Joseph expand on this teaching. However since Christ can been seen as the Father in so many ways I believe that KFD was about Christ.

Jesus taught this? This what that there is one God and that He Himself is the YHWH? Yes he did that but He didn't teach anything about God that Smith taught in the late 1830's and throughout the rest of his life in the 40's.. If you believe that three Gods are supportable in the Bible give the reference instead of just making a blanket statement.. I understand why you do this.. You do it because there is no such reference for any such teaching in the Bible..

Smith expanded his doctrine right out of Christianity and into paganism. Over and over even in the exact words of Jesus the Lord our God is one Lord (Mark 12:29) not three gods.. IHS jim



Just as I thought you can't show anything Biblically that supports your erred statement.. Unless you can back up what you say Biblically I would advise you to just SHUT UP.. IHS jim

Apologette
10-07-2012, 05:28 PM
Wow...he has aged!

Haven't we all!

Libby
10-08-2012, 12:15 AM
if I had a choice of who to hear each week in the EV world it would Charles Swinall. (hope I spelled it right) I miss GBH.

I miss GBH, too, Papa. He was part of the reason I joined the LDS Church, to begin with. I just never had that connection with Pres Monson.

I think there is some truth in all religion (some more than others) and at this point in my life, I try to sincerely listen to the spirit within. If you can get internally quiet (not always easy to do) and just try to listen to God, for a change (instead of doing all the talking, as we tend to do in prayer), it can be very helpful.

Libby
10-08-2012, 12:27 AM
“Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul.” - Walt Whitman quotes ( Poet, 1819-1892)

Pa Pa
10-08-2012, 08:28 AM
“Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul.” - Walt Whitman quotes ( Poet, 1819-1892)

Great line and great poet.

James Banta
10-08-2012, 08:29 AM
“Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul.” - Walt Whitman quotes ( Poet, 1819-1892)

You're back :( And when you come back you enter with the "wisdom" of a ****sexual pervert like Whitman.. Figures.. Wouldn't it have been better to quote the word of God "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21. It's always better to go to the real source that a cheep godless copy.. IHS jim

Libby
10-08-2012, 11:33 AM
And when you come back you enter with the "wisdom" of a ****sexual pervert like Whitman

Really? Nice, Jim. Keep the love flowing.

Libby
10-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Great line and great poet.

I knew you would appreciate that, Papa, since you are a poet, yourself.

James Banta
10-08-2012, 02:58 PM
Really? Nice, Jim. Keep the love flowing.

Whitman is described as either ****sexual or bisexual in his feelings and attractions (Loving, Jerome. Walt Whitman: The Song of Himself. University of California Press, 1999 p19).. Whitman also apposed the abolitionist movement saying that it was a threat to democracy (http://www.whitmanarchive.org/criticism/current/encyclopedia/entry_51.html).. I guess if you can still see good in Joseph Smith knowing that he was a unconfessed adulterer, you can see Waly Whitman as a source for spiritual inspiration.. Never mind Jesus He isn't important in your thinking at all.. IHS jim

Libby
10-08-2012, 03:03 PM
I don't have prejudices against gays or bisexuals or LDS or even you, Jim.

We are all children of God and we all have access to the Holy Spirit...and, thus, to inspiration from God.

Sir
10-08-2012, 03:13 PM
I don't have prejudices against gays or bisexuals or LDS or even you, Jim.

We are all children of God and we all have access to the Holy Spirit...and, thus, to inspiration from God.

Libby,

This is the kind of gospel James professes. While on one hand he proclaims that to feel angry toward another person is the same as being a murderer and adulterer, he has no problem judging others and condemning others for their weaknesses.

This is why he gets frustrated and cannot get people to accept the "gospel" he preaches. It is not of Jesus.

James Banta
10-08-2012, 03:15 PM
I don't have prejudices against gays or bisexuals or LDS or even you, Jim.

We are all children of God and we all have access to the Holy Spirit...and, thus, to inspiration from God.

We are all the offspring of God. To become His Child requires faith in the Jesus of the Bible (John 1:12).. This the mormons don't have, this Libby doesn't have.. Neither you not they are Children of God.. This would mean that all do NOT have the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are not all inspired by God.. IHS jim

Libby
10-08-2012, 03:34 PM
Believe what you will, James.

I'll take Walt Whitman any old day, over the bigoted beliefs of some people.

Libby
10-08-2012, 07:30 PM
Libby,

This is the kind of gospel James professes. While on one hand he proclaims that to feel angry toward another person is the same as being a murderer and adulterer, he has no problem judging others and condemning others for their weaknesses.

This is why he gets frustrated and cannot get people to accept the "gospel" he preaches. It is not of Jesus.

I didn't see this, before, Sir. Appreciate the comments. I don't like to get too personal, but I agree with you that many of the comments here are very far from being God inspired. But, people are where they are, and I guess we can all be pretty pathetic, at times. But, I really do know that we all have the ability to receive inspiration....and to recognize it, when we see it. Something which is God-inspired lifts and edifies...it causes our chest to expand with joy...it doesn't tear down. We may gently let go of those things which are not of God, when we finally see beauty in the truth, but God will not just rip your house down, for you. That's not how he (she :)) works.

Pa Pa
10-08-2012, 07:45 PM
You're back :( And when you come back you enter with the "wisdom" of a ****sexual pervert like Whitman.. Figures.. Wouldn't it have been better to quote the word of God "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21. It's always better to go to the real source that a cheep godless copy.. IHS jim

James...this is sad. I have a gay daughter. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. What a warm welcome to a friend of mine. Mind your manners sir. :(

Libby is a friend of mine, so tone it down. Good words are good words.

alanmolstad
10-08-2012, 07:48 PM
Any bible questions? ....

Any?

Pa Pa
10-08-2012, 07:51 PM
Any bible questions? ....

Any?

I know it well...I can help.

RealFakeHair
10-09-2012, 09:41 AM
The ***le of this thread seems to be a land in which I live...and I am not alone.

Anyone ever find yourself caught in the middle of the battle of faith?

Faith Vs Science, oil/water mix, and the left side of the brain.

There comes a point when the building bocks of faith meet eye level with Science, and the human emotion struggle with the cold face of mankind's evolution.
The question is, who wins in the end?
I've witnessed this contest between the known, and the unknown in the eyes of three lovely souls who facted the Grim Reaper in the last few years, and each parted this World with faith in one hand and fear in the other.
Oh, for the hand of faith over fear, but saddly knowledge cloaks its victim with the unknown.
Pa.Pa, your walk is not a lonely one, but you will be alone when it counts in the end as we all are.
I hope in some small way blind faith can meet up with you, because that is all we are asked of, by God, of the Holy Bible.
Christ, of the Holy Bible made it simple with His Words in St John 3;16.
Only man makes it complicated, with his rules and traditions.
Blind faith, it's a beautiful thing, don't make it ugly with words of man.

Libby
10-09-2012, 11:31 AM
Christ, of the Holy Bible made it simple with His Words in St John 3;16.
Only man makes it complicated, with his rules and traditions.

Amen to that, RFH.

James Banta
10-12-2012, 08:31 AM
Amen to that, RFH.

If you don't know that mormonism is a copulation of a man's rules and commandments added to the simplicity of the teachings of Jesus; you haven't ever read the D&C.. You support mormonism and the attacks of the mormonism against the Church and Her members then you agree that the rules and regulation of men are wrong.. WHO ARE YOU.. Please try to stay true to one point or the other instead of wanting to walk on both sides of an issue.. IHS jim

James Banta
10-12-2012, 08:40 AM
Believe what you will, James.

I'll take Walt Whitman any old day, over the bigoted beliefs of some people.

Great believe the teaching of a ****sexual over the teaching of God in His word


John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

Clearly God commands us to BECOME children of God through faith in Jesus. No one can become something they already are.. I became a college grad. I wasn't one to start with I had to become one.. I have always been male. I don't need to become male.. maybe you don't understand the difference.. That is sad.. IHS jim

James Banta
10-12-2012, 08:59 AM
James...this is sad. I have a gay daughter. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. What a warm welcome to a friend of mine. Mind your manners sir. :(

Libby is a friend of mine, so tone it down. Good words are good words.

Sorry about your daughter.. I pray that she overcomes the tendencies of ****sexuality and stays close to the commandments of God.. ****sexuality like any sin may be forgiven though the blood of Jesus. Living is the sin and ignoring the cleansing power of the Blood unto death is unforgivable. May your daughter like all sinners (We are all sinners), come to Jesus and receive life..

I guess you hold Paul in the same hateful way you hold me:


Romans 1:26-27
For this reason God gave them over to degrading p***ions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Again through your condemnation of me and my beliefs in God's word you trash the teachings of the Holy Spirit as given through the Holy Apostle.. Even though I have turned (repented) of my sin, you have insisted on trashing my character over and over on this and other forums. Now you tell me THAT I AM BEING THE FIRST TO CAST STONES? HYPOCRITE! Do as you say you do before coming at me with such a charge. I do not condemn your daughter or any individual who is tangled in the sin of ****sexuality. She has an opportunity to come to Jesus and get right with God. Whitman had his chance and sold it for unnatural lust. I pray this isn't the path your daughter follows. As I do for anyone involved in sin I pray that Jesus will save her and all involve in all sin that God will change them into the people He wants them to be.. If that is bad manners GET USED TO IT.. IHS jim

James Banta
10-12-2012, 09:12 AM
I know it well...I can help.

You don't seem to remember that the Holy Spirit through Paul the Apostle condemned ****sexuality as sin.. You seem to have selective memory as to what the Bible teaches.. But at least you have studied the Bible most LDS study only a few short proof text.. IHS jim

Libby
10-12-2012, 01:04 PM
That's not true, James (as you should well know). LDS study the Old and New Testament for a whole year, EACH, every third and fourth year. They certainly study a lot more than a few simple proof texts. Interestingly enough, a religious survey (a Pew survey) indicated that LDS know their Bible better than any other Christian sect. Only atheists came out (slightly) ahead.

http://www.pewforum.org/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey-Who-Knows-What-About-Religion.aspx

James Banta
10-12-2012, 10:22 PM
That's not true, James (as you should well know). LDS study the Old and New Testament for a whole year, EACH, every third and fourth year. They certainly study a lot more than a few simple proof texts. Interestingly enough, a religious survey (a Pew survey) indicated that LDS know their Bible better than any other Christian sect. Only atheists came out (slightly) ahead.

http://www.pewforum.org/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey-Who-Knows-What-About-Religion.aspx

You must not have been listening or your teacher didn't know the scripture.. After having been a many of these cl***es I have to believe it is both.. By telling me "That's not true" you have proven to be the one not being truthful here.. IHS jim

Libby
10-12-2012, 10:25 PM
Then, you better start proving what I just said is wrong....because, it is very true. If you were ever a Mormon, you would know it and not deny it.

If you had said that LDS "interpret the Bible differently than you do", well, then, yes, that is true. But, it's not true that they "don't know or study the Bible, except for certain proof texts". That is simply untrue.

James Banta
10-13-2012, 02:34 PM
Then, you better start proving what I just said is wrong....because, it is very true. If you were ever a Mormon, you would know it and not deny it.

If you had said that LDS "interpret the Bible differently than you do", well, then, yes, that is true. But, it's not true that they "don't know or study the Bible, except for certain proof texts". That is simply untrue.

Really.. I hold one example that what I say is correct (There are many more)
In Ezek 37 we read


Ezek 37:16-22
Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all

These are clearly the two nation of the Children of Israel and not books of scripture.. But your learned mormon teaches disagree with God telling us what the p***age means and make up their own meaning about this p***age being about books..

It doesn't matter how many times they are right.. They teach false doctrine that they try to make into a teaching about their church.. It isn't and they are corrupt, You are falling back into their lies.. IHS jim

Libby
10-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Yes, indeed, they do disagree. That was not what you said.

You said, they don't study the Bible, except for certain proof texts. That was an untruth.

"most LDS study only a few short proof text.. IHS jim "

James Banta
10-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Yes, indeed, they do disagree. That was not what you said.

You said, they don't study the Bible, except for certain proof texts. That was an untruth.

"most LDS study only a few short proof text.. IHS jim "

And I am right.. All the study they do is based in the teaching of Joseph Smith and the proof text they use to support their religion.. Ned me to turn again to another mormon proof text that is just flat wrong? I have several more I can bring up. The one I am thinking of is in 1 Cor 15.. They say it's about 3 degrees of Glory, the Bible is speaking of the difference between the resurrection body and the natural body.. And this is how they "study" the Bible.. I say it again There is no real Bible study in all of Mormonism.. IHS jim

Libby
10-13-2012, 04:40 PM
Everyone has their favorite proof texts, even you. That is still not the issue you claimed. I think anyone who reads here will understand what I said, and that you were wrong to claim that LDS only study certain "proof texts" of the Bible. I know LDS know that is not true.

James Banta
10-14-2012, 08:19 AM
Everyone has their favorite proof texts, even you. That is still not the issue you claimed. I think anyone who reads here will understand what I said, and that you were wrong to claim that LDS only study certain "proof texts" of the Bible. I know LDS know that is not true.

Oh they look at all of it and yet use only their proof text to try to prove that mormonism is true and everything else is a Satan inspired lie.. It is their twisted use of the Bible their out and out lie as to it's meaning that make me disagree with you.. Mormonism uses the Bible only as a far as their proof text will allow beyond that they have twisted the meaning of all of it teaching. I can point to several they use and by their interpretation I can show you that no one can be saved..


Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey him

Search your heart and tell me that you or anyone is obedient.. Do we obey His perfect will at all times? Or do we mostly give lip service to obedience.. Ask mormons what they think is being obedient and they will give you a list of the ten commandments.. And yet they will admit lust, anger, love for worldly things, and envy. I full liturgy of the causes of breaking the LAW.. Then the Bible it's self tells us that there is NONE righteous, no not one.. The use of their proof text the way they interpret it allows for no salvation at all. No one is obedient! To say that they teach the Scripture is a lie.. They teach a corruption of the scripture and ALL their study is aimed at that corruption.. That is not Bible study.. IHS jim

alanmolstad
10-14-2012, 08:20 AM
I don't have prejudices against ....
I have strong feelings against the sin....but I dont have any thoughts against the people themselves.
\

As for the art that is created by gays or other perverts, I believe that we should never hold our opinions of their art as a hostage to our feelings against the sins they may be guilty of.


Thus I can listen to Mozart and enjoy it fully, while not having to deal with the reports of his vulgarities in his personal life.

Libby
10-16-2012, 12:26 PM
Alan, the very idea that you could call them "perverts" shows a strong feeling against the "person"...not just (what you consider) the sin.

alanmolstad
10-03-2014, 05:46 PM
The ***le of this thread seems to be a land in which I live...and I am not alone.

Anyone ever find yourself caught in the middle of the battle of faith?

I have met a few people who were in the same position.
They were halfway out of the JWs...but just not enough to say the JWs were100% wrong about God.


I knew a guy who came out of a CULT ( the Mormons), only to get sucked into the 7th Dayers.
I talked to him about it....why he seemed to be ducking the truth in an effort to stay out of the traditional church?....

It was almost as if he knew the Mormons were evil, but had fought against the Christian Church for so many years that he could not face accepting the church as true.....

dberrie2000
10-05-2014, 04:59 AM
I have met a few people who were in the same position.
They were halfway out of the JWs...but just not enough to say the JWs were100% wrong about God.


I knew a guy who came out of a CULT ( the Mormons), only to get sucked into the 7th Dayers.
I talked to him about it....why he seemed to be ducking the truth in an effort to stay out of the traditional church?....

It was almost as if he knew the Mormons were evil, but had fought against the Christian Church for so many years that he could not face accepting the church as true.....

Alan--when you use the term "Christian"--are you referring to the faith alone, who preach a faith without works for salvation--or the true Christianity of the Biblical text?

alanmolstad
10-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Alan--when you use the term "Christian"--are you referring to the faith alone, who preach a faith without works for salvation--or the true Christianity of the Biblical text?
When I say "Christian" I mean the faith of the Bible, meaning that the person is saved by GRACE "though faith".

We are saved by Grace....the path that this walks is though "faith"

We are not saved by faith,we are not saved by works....
Rather we are saved by Grace though faith and not by works.

dberrie2000
10-05-2014, 04:38 PM
When I say "Christian" I mean the faith of the Bible, meaning that the person is saved by GRACE "though faith".

Is that a faith without works--dead faith--or a faith with works?

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

theway
10-14-2014, 01:16 PM
You don't seem to remember that the Holy Spirit through Paul the Apostle condemned ****sexuality as sin.. You seem to have selective memory as to what the Bible teaches.. But at least you have studied the Bible most LDS study only a few short proof text.. IHS jim
But you did not condemn the sin did you?
You immediately played God and condemned the person.
You then posted scripture saying to test all things and hold fast to that which is true, but then hypocritically rejected anything the Poet may have said without considering first testing it to see whether it was true.....

It appears the longer you are away from the spirit of truth as it is within the Church if Jesus Christ of a later Day Saints, the more angry and silly your rantings are becoming.

cheachea
10-17-2014, 12:16 AM
Is that a faith without works--dead faith--or a faith with works?

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



He's saying GRACE. God's Grace. Unmerited Favor. We are saved by GRACE Through Faith. *GRACE. *GOD'S UNMERITED FAVOR. *WE DON'T DESERVE IT.

* It's Not Faith that saves you.
* It's Not Works That save you.
* We ARE Saved BY GRACE Through Faith . *We are saved by GOD'S GRACE. *God Alone does the saving. Man does not save himself.

dberrie2000
10-17-2014, 05:33 AM
He's saying GRACE. God's Grace. Unmerited Favor. We are saved by GRACE Through Faith.

And the "faith" Walter Martin--and the faith alone--- is a faith without works in salvation. The faith alone believe dead faith saves in salvation--then works follow.

ames 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

cheachea
10-17-2014, 10:50 PM
And the "faith" Walter Martin--and the faith alone--- is a faith without works in salvation. The faith alone believe dead faith saves in salvation--then works follow.

ames 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



The verse in James does not contradict or even go against the fact that We ARE Saved By GRACE Through Faith.

I never said that we are saved by Faith. I Said that we Are Saved By GRACE through Faith. It is God Who Saves.




*What is it with you people? It's like You Really Think That you can Earn Your Salvation. Your own Righteous is Filthy Rags To God. Remember That.

alanmolstad
10-18-2014, 12:20 PM
We are saved not by faith alone, nor by works alone, nor by ANY FREAKING COMBINATION OF THE TWO!


We are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

So Grace saves us , though faith, and this means that that hot steaming pile of works that many in the world of the CULTS thinks will count for something are only fooling themselves.

dberrie2000
10-20-2014, 05:06 AM
The verse in James does not contradict or even go against the fact that We ARE Saved By GRACE Through Faith.

The faith alone preach a salvation through a faith without works:

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If you disagree--please print what works you believe is added to faith in salvation.


What is it with you people? It's like You Really Think That you can Earn Your Salvation.

Is God giving His salvational grace to them that obey Him--an example of one earning salvation?

Acts 2:38--King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Your own Righteous is Filthy Rags To God. Remember That.

Maybe we need to relay that info to John:

1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

dberrie2000
10-20-2014, 05:11 AM
We are saved not by faith alone, nor by works alone, nor by ANY FREAKING COMBINATION OF THE TWO!

We are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

So Grace saves us , though faith,

In the faith alone theology--that is a faith without works in salvation. Faith alone theology is just that--salvation through a faith that is alone. One is saved by grace through a dead faith.


and this means that that hot steaming pile of works that many in the world of the CULTS thinks will count for something are only fooling themselves.

Paul had quite a high pile of works he felt counted for something:

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

cheachea
10-21-2014, 12:40 AM
Paul had quite a high pile of works he felt counted for something:

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.






Wait a second, those are "sins" in that verse. Those aren't "Works" as in Godly Works. I don't understand why you posted that. Works that you do that are godly would be stuff like feed the poor, take care of the sick, visit people in prison etc.

dberrie2000
10-21-2014, 04:48 AM
Wait a second, those are "sins" in that verse. Those aren't "Works" as in Godly Works. I don't understand why you posted that. Works that you do that are godly would be stuff like feed the poor, take care of the sick, visit people in prison etc.

Works are anything we do that affects salvation, IMO. And Christ testified all will be judged in accordance with works:

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


That judgment is after death--and for life or ****ation.

How does that compare to a faith alone theology--which preaches a salvation through a faith without works?

cheachea
10-21-2014, 01:24 PM
Works are anything we do that affects salvation, IMO. And Christ testified all will be judged in accordance with works:

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


That judgment is after death--and for life or ****ation.

How does that compare to a faith alone theology--which preaches a salvation through a faith without works?

Mostly I'm trying to show that doing good works will not save anyone. You can not earn salvation. If a person really thinks they can earn salvation then they have some very real theological issues they need to deal with. One thing that I will say that is good about posters like you is that you remind us that we should labor for The LORD.

dberrie2000
10-21-2014, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Works are anything we do that affects salvation, IMO. And Christ testified all will be judged in accordance with works:

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


That judgment is after death--and for life or ****ation.

How does that compare to a faith alone theology--which preaches a salvation through a faith without works?


Mostly I'm trying to show that doing good works will not save anyone. You can not earn salvation.

I agree. But that in no way negates the fact the scriptures testify that God gives His salvational grace to them that obey Him:


Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;