Second thread of the day; why does This forum have 90,000 posts over others.

[Pa Pa]

I mean 90,000+ more that almost every forum combine. I think it is because Walter Martin made a fortune by attacking the restored Gospel above all others, (as he was a Calvinist) and lost Calvinists feel the need to attack the truth. Like I said you can see my sig line and others here and go to CARM, and see Mormonism is the biggest target there as most are Calvinist.

In fact other than the KJV only crowd who tells everyone who does not used it is going to hell. Everyone else yelling and holding signs, seeking self promoting videos are Calvinists. The exception is the ones they hire to hold signs and yell.

[MacG]

I mean 90,000+ more that almost every forum combine. I think it is because Walter Martin made a fortune by attacking the restored Gospel above all others, (as he was a Calvinist) and lost Calvinists feel the need to attack the truth. Like I said you can see my sig line and others here and go to CARM, and see Mormonism is the biggest target there as most are Calvinist.

In fact other than the KJV only crowd who tells everyone who does not used it is going to hell. Everyone else yelling and holding signs, seeking self promoting videos are Calvinists. The exception is the ones they hire to hold signs and yell.

C'mon now, who threw the first punch" I mean we Calmenians were all content in our corrupted sects until JS riled us all up by saying only he had the restored gospel. Or do you see it another way?

[dberrie2000]

C'mon now, who threw the first punch" I mean we Calmenians were all content in our corrupted sects until JS riled us all up by saying only he had the restored gospel. Or do you see it another way?

Sounds kinda like Jesus telling the Jews that only He had the truth.

[Pa Pa]

Sounds kinda like Jesus telling the Jews that only He had the truth.
No Jesus taught that the law had been corrupted...no one ever quoted the OT more than Christ. Of course the OT was his words...so is that quoting.

[Pa Pa]

C'mon now, who threw the first punch" I mean we Calmenians were all content in our corrupted sects until JS riled us all up by saying only he had the restored gospel. Or do you see it another way?

If the truth is a punch...also I must be slow. What is a "Calmenian"?

[MacG]

If the truth is a punch...

So you see then we are on the defensive not the attackers.


also I must be slow. What is a "Calmenian"?

I would not say that you are slow, I have been know to be presumptive or obtuse at times. Sometimes I don't even get what I wrote :)

Calmeinans is a blanket term for those who are not settled in one camp or the other but rest on or wrestle with the paradox of Calvin and Arminius' views as the truth of the topic is some where in between. The paradox is that we are called to respond but few are chosen, wide is the path to destruction but narrow is the path to righteousness, narrow is the gate and few are they who find it.

[Pa Pa]

So you see then we are on the defensive not the attackers.



I would not say that you are slow, I have been know to be presumptive or obtuse at times. Sometimes I don't even get what I wrote :)

.Nothing I said suggests I am defensive, but if you think I am slow...I can take it. But I do not see everyone as anti-Mormon, as I stated everyone who admits it, starts anti-Mormon sites who believe this behavior is Christian. However, when ex-Mormon start sites...it is far worse sites than any Christian site (I mean Christian as they define it) I have ever been to. Former members who have become atheist or feel wronged by the Church are vicious...like vipers. I would rather converse with a Calvinist than someone who hates me for being a Mormon.

[Billyray]

Sounds kinda like Jesus telling the Jews that only He had the truth.
You mean that the truth was not in the existing scriptures (i.e. the OT) under the Law at the time of Jesus?

[MacG]

Nothing I said suggests I am defensive,

I never said you were defensive but you and I agreed that JS attacked all denominations known to him and therefore these sects are defending against the first attack and have been ever since.


but if you think I am slow...I can take it.

I pretty much said the opposite but you turn it around...


But I do not see everyone as anti-Mormon, as I stated everyone who admits it, starts anti-Mormon sites who believe this behavior is Christian. However, when ex-Mormon start sites...it is far worse sites than any Christian site (I mean Christian as they define it) I have ever been to. Former members who have become atheist or feel wronged by the Church are vicious...like vipers. I would rather converse with a Calvinist than someone who hates me for being a Mormon.


Persecution.Is it real or is projected? It is difficult to ascertain sometimes for real persecution exists but so does projected persecution. Like the black man who feels disrespected that a white woman pulls her purse close to her when he gets into the elevator. Nevermind that she does this when every man gets into the elevator. Maybe he never asked why she did that but was once told that white women fear black men for being thugs. If I hated you PaPa I would not give you the time of day but if I gave you that impression, please forgive me. I love you for the sake of Christ because He first loved me.

I cannot stand however for that alternate gospel revealed by Moroni and the rapid turn from the Only God. The subsequent teachings of the TCJCLDS Apostles which add nothing of import to the Gospel as presented in the New Testament but instead cause division.

You, I have love and respect for, the gospel according to TCJCLS, I do not.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post--Sounds kinda like Jesus telling the Jews that only He had the truth.

You mean that the truth was not in the existing scriptures (i.e. the OT) under the Law at the time of Jesus?

If the Mosaic Law held the truths and power unto life eternal--there would have been no need for Jesus's ministry.

[Pa Pa]

I never said you were defensive but you and I agreed that JS attacked all denominations known to him and therefore these sects are defending against the first attack and have been ever since.



I pretty much said the opposite but you turn it around...



Persecution.Is it real or is projected? It is difficult to ascertain sometimes for real persecution exists but so does projected persecution. Like the black man who feels disrespected that a white woman pulls her purse close to her when he gets into the elevator. Nevermind that she does this when every man gets into the elevator. Maybe he never asked why she did that but was once told that white women fear black men for being thugs. If I hated you PaPa I would not give you the time of day but if I gave you that impression, please forgive me. I love you for the sake of Christ because He first loved me.

I cannot stand however for that alternate gospel revealed by Moroni and the rapid turn from the Only God. The subsequent teachings of the TCJCLDS Apostles which add nothing of import to the Gospel as presented in the New Testament but instead cause division.

You, I have love and respect for, the gospel according to TCJCLS, I do not.
Maybe a few reading lessons, you are answering question I did not imply and answering charges I did not make, since said you are not a Calvinist and not an anti-Mormon:why do you go on?

[Billyray]

If the Mosaic Law held the truths and power unto life eternal--there would have been no need for Jesus's ministry.

Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?

[dberrie2000]

Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?

Not through the Mosaic Law:

Hebrews 10:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


And not through faith alone:


James 2:24---King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only



But by God's grace--which comes through obedience to Jesus Christ:


Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

[Billyray]

Not through the Mosaic Law:

Perhaps you could answer my question this time. BTW your long answers (which doesn't answer the question) with the bright red text doesn't fool anyone--all it does is point out that you are being deceptive by not answering my question. "Spy the Lie: Former CIA Officers Teach You How to Detect Deception" this is an excellent secular book which describes patterns of deception. A quick read of this book will explain a lot of patterns that we see on this board.


Here is my question again.

Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post----Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?


Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post----Not through the Mosaic Law:

Hebrews 10:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


And not through faith alone:


James 2:24---King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only



But by God's grace--which comes through obedience to Jesus Christ:


Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Perhaps you could answer my question this time. BTW your long answers (which doesn't answer the question) with the bright red text doesn't fool anyone--all it does is point out that you are being deceptive by not answering my question.

Are you referring to the quotes from the Biblical text?


Here is my question again. Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?

And here is my answer again:

Not under the Mosaic Law:

Hebrews 10:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

[Billyray]

Not under the Mosaic Law:

Wasn't anyone saved in the OT under the Law?

[Billyray]

Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?


Not through the Mosaic Law:



Perhaps you could answer my question this time. BTW your long answers (which doesn't answer the question) with the bright red text doesn't fool anyone--all it does is point out that you are being deceptive by not answering my question. "Spy the Lie: Former CIA Officers Teach You How to Detect Deception" this is an excellent secular book which describes patterns of deception. A quick read of this book will explain a lot of patterns that we see on this board.


Here is my question again.

Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?


Are you referring to the quotes from the Biblical text?

No I am referring to the fact that you won't answer my question which is deceptive behavior.

[Apologette]

No Jesus taught that the law had been corrupted...no one ever quoted the OT more than Christ. Of course the OT was his words...so is that quoting.

PaPa, Don't you forget that the Law with its ordinances were nailed to the Cross with Christ? The Bible says you can be saved by the Law (keeping it perfectly) or grace, and if it is by Law there is no more grace. Which would you want - grace or law?

[James Banta]

No Jesus taught that the law had been corrupted...no one ever quoted the OT more than Christ. Of course the OT was his words...so is that quoting.

WHAT??? Jesus never said the Law was corrupt.. He said there were hypocrites that put their traditions ahead of the Law.. The Law has never been corrupt nor will it ever be.. This is why I doubt that you were ever in a Christian church much less ever were a Christian.. A Christian would never say such a terrible thing about Jesus.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

I never said you were defensive but you and I agreed that JS attacked all denominations .

I deleted the rambling on topics that have nothing to do with the thread and must ask? When did I agree with you about JS?

[Pa Pa]

WHAT??? Jesus never said the Law was corrupt.. IHS jim
Corrupt"ed"...you know the law he established. I have never seen such diversion and attempts to misrepresent others. Even by you Jim. Now I know why there are 90,000+ posts more than any other forum! this includes all forums combined. When fighting the truth people are compelled A LOT!

[MacG]

I deleted the rambling on topics that have nothing to do with the thread and must ask? When did I agree with you about JS?

Me:
C'mon now, who threw the first punch" I mean we Calmenians were all content in our corrupted sects until JS riled us all up by saying only he had the restored gospel. Or do you see it another way?
You:
If the truth is a punch...
Me:
So you see then we are on the defensive not the attackers.

You somehow interpreted defensive to be about you and replied:
Nothing I said suggests I am defensive,...

Which is one of the reasons I said:
I pretty much said the opposite but you turn it around...

I was making the point that Walter Martin was defending against the attacks by JS (counter to your charge in your OP) on what he believed to be an all corrupt Church. Hence TCJCLDS is the 'attacker' and we of the churches that JS declared corrupt are defending. You agreed by saying if truth is a punch, JS threw it (truth as defined by TCJCLS).

[dberrie2000]

PaPa, Don't you forget that the Law with its ordinances were nailed to the Cross with Christ?

Which law are you referring to here? The Law of Christ has ordinances also.

[Apologette]

Which law are you referring to here? The Law of Christ has ordinances also.

The Law with its ordinances - this isn't hard to figure out. Stop trying to dichotomize the Law. That's what seventh-day Adventists do - and I've noted that Mormons do also. But, if you aren't under grace, don't worry - you are under all the Law and will be judged by it. Hope you aren't wearing any clothing of mixed materials or kindling a fire on the Sabbath.

[James Banta]

Corrupt"ed"...you know the law he established. I have never seen such diversion and attempts to misrepresent others. Even by you Jim. Now I know why there are 90,000+ posts more than any other forum! this includes all forums combined. When fighting the truth people are compelled A LOT!

He never said that the Law had been corrupted.. All the time that the Pharisees replaced the Law with their TRADITIONS the Law was still with them as clear, clean, and pure as the day Moses brought it to them from God..

I have told you why I come here.. I am not called to lift Jesus up to the JW or any other of the nonchristian cults.. I am called to MY PEOPLE, just as Paul was called to teach his Israel. Yes there are a lot of people that are trying to get through to the LDS.. By far they send more of their missionaries into the world than any other religion. So we (Christians) fight it harder than any other man made invented church..

As always Papa I will pray for you that the Holy Spirit can break though the LDS brain washing and teach you his truth.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Don't you believe that anyone in the OT under the law was saved?
Since you believe they would have to perfectly obey all 613 laws...do you. How could the "totally depraved" as you believe live all 613 laws perfectly?

[Billyray]

Since you believe they would have to perfectly obey all 613 laws...do you. How could the "totally depraved" as you believe live all 613 laws perfectly?
Those who kept the Law perfectly would be saved by their works but I don't believe that anyone kept the Law. Now what do you believe? Was anyone in the OT under the Law saved?