The Unpardonable Sin (and why I don't believe Anti-LDS Inc.)

[Sir]

RealFakeHair stated the following:

"It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin. However on the other hand any TBM that hasn't accept Jesus of the Holy Bible as their Lord and Savior, every day you live in the unpardonable sin; That is blaspheming against the Holy Ghost."

Jesus stated:


Matthew 12:31-32
King James Version (KJV)

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Anti-LDS are so blinded by their hate for the LDS church that they resort to making up their own interpretation of scripture if they think it will apply to the LDS people. Here, for example, we see that speaking against Jesus IS forgivable. Obviously LDS people do not speak AGAINST Jesus since our whole faith is about following Him and looking to His atonement for our salvation. However, critics of Mormons will claim that we do deny Jesus or speak against Him. They then claim that because of this LDS people are guilty of the unpardonable sin. This already goes against the clear teachings of Jesus Himself.

Also, if LDS are guilty of committing the unpardonable sin "everyday", then wouldn't it stand to follow that there is already no forgiveness of that sin in this life or the next and are thusly perpetually condemned now? Why, then, do Anti-LDS try to get LDS to see things their way? To change? To accept Jesus the way they do? If LDS have already committed the unforgivable sin, would that change the LDS' fate? If so, then they make Jesus a liar.

Lastly, as believers in Jesus Christ, LDS are Christians, so according to RFH's first statement, it would be impossible for them to commit the unpardonable sin.

Why do Anti-LDS twist scripture and eisegete verses simply to try to attack the LDS? This is dishonest and another reason LDS do not take their enemies seriously.

[theway]

RealFakeHair stated the following:

"It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin. However on the other hand any TBM that hasn't accept Jesus of the Holy Bible as their Lord and Savior, every day you live in the unpardonable sin; That is blaspheming against the Holy Ghost."

Jesus stated:



Anti-LDS are so blinded by their hate for the LDS church that they resort to making up their own interpretation of scripture if they think it will apply to the LDS people. Here, for example, we see that speaking against Jesus IS forgivable. Obviously LDS people do not speak AGAINST Jesus since our whole faith is about following Him and looking to His atonement for our salvation. However, critics of Mormons will claim that we do deny Jesus or speak against Him. They then claim that because of this LDS people are guilty of the unpardonable sin. This already goes against the clear teachings of Jesus Himself.

Also, if LDS are guilty of committing the unpardonable sin "everyday", then wouldn't it stand to follow that there is already no forgiveness of that sin in this life or the next and are thusly perpetually condemned now? Why, then, do Anti-LDS try to get LDS to see things their way? To change? To accept Jesus the way they do? If LDS have already committed the unforgivable sin, would that change the LDS' fate? If so, then they make Jesus a liar.

Lastly, as believers in Jesus Christ, LDS are Christians, so according to RFH's first statement, it would be impossible for them to commit the unpardonable sin.

Why do Anti-LDS twist scripture and eisegete verses simply to try to attack the LDS? This is dishonest and another reason LDS do not take their enemies seriously.Here is yet another paradox of modern Christianity which cannot be reconciled with the Bible or the gospel.

If it is impossible for the regenerated (Christian) to commit the unpardonable sin, then that leaves only the unregenerated.

If, according to "Faith Aloners" the unregenerated can do nothing "but" deny Christ, then every single person has commited the unparadonable sin before they were regenerated.

Of course... The opposite reality is always true when dealing with Faith Aloners, it is only saved Christians which are even capable of committed the unpardonable sin.

It's a small point against the Faith Aloners which can not be denied, yet, it is a another point which brings down their whole theological house of cards.

[Billyray]

Here is yet another paradox. . .

A paradox? Really?



If, according to "Faith Aloners" the unregenerated can do nothing "but" deny Christ, then every single person has commited the unparadonable sin before they were regenerated.

Who said that the unpardonable sin was to "deny Christ"?

[theway]

A paradox? Really?Yes... Really!


Who said that the unpardonable sin was to "deny Christ"?Why.... AntiMormon Posters have on this very forum. We were trying to correct him, but you know how that goes....LOL.

[RealFakeHair]

RealFakeHair stated the following:

"It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin. However on the other hand any TBM that hasn't accept Jesus of the Holy Bible as their Lord and Savior, every day you live in the unpardonable sin; That is blaspheming against the Holy Ghost."



As you can see if a Saved person sins are not covered by the Blood of Christ, then Salvation would be a one time shot. If you lose it according to LDSinc. teachings you can never get it back.

Jesus stated:



Anti-LDS are so blinded by their hate for the LDS church that they resort to making up their own interpretation of scripture if they think it will apply to the LDS people. Here, for example, we see that speaking against Jesus IS forgivable. Obviously LDS people do not speak AGAINST Jesus since our whole faith is about following Him and looking to His atonement for our salvation. However, critics of Mormons will claim that we do deny Jesus or speak against Him. They then claim that because of this LDS people are guilty of the unpardonable sin. This already goes against the clear teachings of Jesus Himself.

Also, if LDS are guilty of committing the unpardonable sin "everyday", then wouldn't it stand to follow that there is already no forgiveness of that sin in this life or the next and are thusly perpetually condemned now? Why, then, do Anti-LDS try to get LDS to see things their way? To change? To accept Jesus the way they do? If LDS have already committed the unforgivable sin, would that change the LDS' fate? If so, then they make Jesus a liar.

Lastly, as believers in Jesus Christ, LDS are Christians, so according to RFH's first statement, it would be impossible for them to commit the unpardonable sin.

Why do Anti-LDS twist scripture and eisegete verses simply to try to attack the LDS? This is dishonest and another reason LDS do not take their enemies seriously.

Here is your answer; Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subject Him to public disgrace.
All sins of a Saved person are covered, or else we are all doomed.

[Sir]

Here is your answer; Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subject Him to public disgrace.
All sins of a Saved person are covered, or else we are all doomed.

Wait....

You said "It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin.". Remember?

Now you are showing us a scripture that states it is impossible for a Christian to repent if they fall away!

So not only did you just prove that the only people that can commit the unpardonable sin HAVE to be those who were Christians, you also just destroyed the whole theology of the "Once-Saved-Always-Saved".

Good ***!!

[Sir]

Who said that the unpardonable sin was to "deny Christ"?

...........


The blood of Christ covers all sins but one, the rejection of Him as Lord and Savior.

[RealFakeHair]

Wait....

You said "It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin.". Remember?

Now you are showing us a scripture that states it is impossible for a Christian to repent if they fall away!

So not only did you just prove that the only people that can commit the unpardonable sin HAVE to be those who were Christians, you also just destroyed the whole theology of the "Once-Saved-Always-Saved".

Good ***!!

Well, I guess you're trying to understand it anyways. Never in the verse does it say If a believer, christian, born againder falls away. The verse says if a person who has Tasted. Now what does that mean? It means anyone who begins down the road to becoming a followers of Christ, and even if they were baptized and still held out a total transformation as in when Jesus told Nicodemus; Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Born again meaning born of the Spirit! ie the Holy Ghost. Thus you see if one rejected the Holy Ghost, that is the blaspheming against Him, and thus is unforgiving.
However, if a person is a born againder he or she can not reject that which has accepted them, or else they must be re-baptised by the Spirit and it can't be done.
Salvation is a one time deal accept it or reject it neither can be undone.

[Sir]

Well, I guess you're trying to understand it anyways. Never in the verse does it say If a believer, christian, born againder falls away.

The sad part is I think you are serious.

The verse speaks to those who ARE believers. If you're telling us that those who have been enlightened, tasted of the Heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the Word of God are all NON-BELIEVERS in Jesus, then your eisegesis of the Bible is more flawed than I thought!

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance...."

It sure seems clear to all of us LDS that someone who is a believer CAN fall away, at least according to the Bible. But you are forced to read your own interpretation into it in order for it to make sense to the OSAS theology.

[James Banta]

The sad part is I think you are serious.

The verse speaks to those who ARE believers. If you're telling us that those who have been enlightened, tasted of the Heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the Word of God are all NON-BELIEVERS in Jesus, then your eisegesis of the Bible is more flawed than I thought!

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance...."

It sure seems clear to all of us LDS that someone who is a believer CAN fall away, at least according to the Bible. But you are forced to read your own interpretation into it in order for it to make sense to the OSAS theology.

Just where in all that does it say such people ever believed? IHS jim

[Sir]

Just where in all that does it say such people ever believed? IHS jim

The same place it says "Trinity". ;)

[RealFakeHair]

The sad part is I think you are serious.

The verse speaks to those who ARE believers. If you're telling us that those who have been enlightened, tasted of the Heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the Word of God are all NON-BELIEVERS in Jesus, then your eisegesis of the Bible is more flawed than I thought!

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance...."

It sure seems clear to all of us LDS that someone who is a believer CAN fall away, at least according to the Bible. But you are forced to read your own interpretation into it in order for it to make sense to the OSAS theology.

Then YOU can't come back! Your religion is a religion of no hope.

[Sir]

Then YOU can't come back! Your religion is a religion of no hope.

I don't know what what point you are trying to make.

[RealFakeHair]

I don't know what what point you are trying to make.

How can a believer come back if the word of God says it would be impossible?
Thus, you have no hope?

[Sir]

How can a believer come back if the word of God says it would be impossible?
Thus, you have no hope?

Wrong.

LDS don't believe that a believer who leaves the church cannot come back. Like many mainstream Christians, LDS believe that someone who leaves the fold and has a desire to return does not have the spirit in them that cons***utes committing the unforgivable sin. Only those who have had a sure witness of of the Holy Ghost and having a perfect knowledge of who the Holy Ghost is, and to still deny him or his power would fit that category.

Thus, LDS have great hope!

[RealFakeHair]

Wrong.

LDS don't believe that a believer who leaves the church cannot come back. Like many mainstream Christians, LDS believe that someone who leaves the fold and has a desire to return does not have the spirit in them that cons***utes committing the unforgivable sin. Only those who have had a sure witness of of the Holy Ghost and having a perfect knowledge of who the Holy Ghost is, and to still deny him or his power would fit that category.

Thus, LDS have great hope!

So you are saying a TBM can't lose his Exaltation?

[Sir]

So you are saying a TBM can't lose his Exaltation?

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

:)

[RealFakeHair]

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

:)

You believe a TBM can lose his Exaltation and then get it back?

[James Banta]

The same place it says "Trinity". ;)

Ok, lets deal with the concept. Just where is the concept that a person must be a believer in order to become a son of perdition? I can again show you the concept for the trinity in the Bible.. in Mark 12:29 Jesus quotes Moses saying that the Lord is one. That being the truth and Jesus saying that He had to ascend to His God and our God, that Jesus is called the Word who is God, and that Peter called the Holy Spirit God in Acts. 5:3-4; there must be something to a doctrine that explains how these three Persons can still be one God.. That is all the doctrine of the trinity does. Now please explain why a person must be a special believer to be a son of perdition in the light of Rev 20:15.. IHS jim

[Sir]

You believe a TBM can lose his Exaltation and then get it back?

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

You need to understand the LDS doctrine of salvation/ exaltation/ falling from grace/ etc. in order to understand the idea of the unpardonable sin in LDS context.

[RealFakeHair]

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

:)

So, once you are SAVED, you is Saved and can't lose it?

[theway]

So, once you are SAVED, you is Saved and can't lose it?
No.... Only in the world of Calvinist heresies is there such a thing as the unbiblical Salvation Security as you know it.

[RealFakeHair]

No.... Only in the world of Calvinist heresies is there such a thing as the unbiblical Salvation Security as you know it.

Now I am confused, so you can lose your exaltation and regain it. Just for the record is that correct?

[Sir]

Now I am confused,

Because you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe - like theway has pointed out.

[RealFakeHair]

Because you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe - like theway has pointed out.

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?

[Sir]

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?

Why do you expect a yes or no will suffice when you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe?

[nrajeffreturns]

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?
You need to learn a few things about LDS soteriology before your question can be answered.
LDS don't believe in OBIS or OSAS while the person is in mortality, generally speaking. Eternal life is a FUTURE event, which person is given on Judgment day, which occurs after Resurrection Day.

[RealFakeHair]

Why do you expect a yes or no will suffice when you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe?

For some reason I expect this kind of answer. Oh by the way why can't you give a yes or no? I am not trying to trap you, I do realize not all questions come with a yes or no, but for the life of me I can't reason why you are hesitant to give a simple yes or no, is there a reason for your none answer?

[RealFakeHair]

You need to learn a few things about LDS soteriology before your question can be answered.
LDS don't believe in OBIS or OSAS while the person is in mortality, generally speaking. Eternal life is a FUTURE event, which person is given on Judgment day, which occurs after Resurrection Day.

Thank you for trying a yes or no, well I do understand the mortal vs the immortal to exaltation or saved.
Your answer is of course at anytime a TBM can slip out of his exaltation slippers. What I mean is he can be walking towards his reward and at the last moment lose it all.

[Sir]

For some reason I expect this kind of answer. Oh by the way why can't you give a yes or no? I am not trying to trap you, I do realize not all questions come with a yes or no, but for the life of me I can't reason why you are hesitant to give a simple yes or no, is there a reason for your none answer?

nrajeff gave a pretty good reason why.

[James Banta]

You need to learn a few things about LDS soteriology before your question can be answered.
LDS don't believe in OBIS or OSAS while the person is in mortality, generally speaking. Eternal life is a FUTURE event, which person is given on Judgment day, which occurs after Resurrection Day.

This must be another Biblical doctrine that the LDS have decided to either ignore or deny.. But what could the Bible say about this? Lets look..

John 11:25-26
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

How is it that believers are promised that they will never die? All men die.. And yet there is Jesus say that all who believe in His will never die? Why is it that the Holy Spirit teaches us through the Apostle John that those that believe have eternal life? Did Jesus really teach that all who believe in Him would live in the flesh till He comes? He must have been teaching a different kind of life to teach that we who believe would never die? If we aren't alive physically we don't have to be spiritually dead. That tell us that those live and believe in Him will never die, because that have eternal life. NOT LATER BUT WHILE THEY LIVE.. So why is it you tell us that the LDS church denies these truths and yet insist that the LDS are believers in the Bible? IHS jim

[James Banta]

nrajeff gave a pretty good reason why.

If you agree with him then you also prove you know little about the Bible.. You can read my answer to him to see what the Bible teaches as to when eternal live comes to a believer.. Just because the LDS church denies truth doesn't change truth into a lie.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Thank you for trying a yes or no, well I do understand the mortal vs the immortal to exaltation or saved.
Do you understand the concept of the path that leads to eternal life?


Your answer is of course at anytime a TBM can slip out of his exaltation slippers.
You are of course wrong, if you're saying that LDS believe that a person can lose his salvation. You can't lose something that hasn't been given to you yet.


What I mean is he can be walking towards his reward and at the last moment lose it all.
Well done. Yes, the Bible doctrine that it's possible to start down the path that LEADS to eternal life, but stray OFF that path and end up at some other destination--is also an LDS doctrine.

Do you have a problem with that Biblical doctrine?

[Billyray]

No.... Only in the world of Calvinist heresies is there such a thing as the unbiblical Salvation Security as you know it.

What is unbiblical about what he said?

[theway]

What is unbiblical about what he said?What wasn't!!!

[James Banta]

What wasn't!!!

The idea that we can never lose our salvation is what isn't unbiblical.. Jesus said:

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Therefore it is unbiblical to hold a belief that anyone the Father gives to Jesus will ever be cast out. You notice that there is no exceptions in this for a person who falls into sin once they come. Instead Jesus teaches us that there is no reason He would ever cast such a person, that the Father had given to Him, out.. No room for denial that once saved always saved is not of God, that it is a man invented doctrine. There it is right in the words spoken by Jesus. You asked so I thought you should be told what wasn't unbiblical.. IHS jim

[theway]

The idea that we can never lose our salvation is what isn't unbiblical.. Jesus said:

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Therefore it is unbiblical to hold a belief that anyone the Father gives to Jesus will ever be cast out. You notice that there is no exceptions in this for a person who falls into sin once they come. Instead Jesus teaches us that there is no reason He would ever cast such a person, that the Father had given to Him, out.. No room for denial that once saved always saved is not of God, that it is a man invented doctrine. There it is right in the words spoken by Jesus. You asked so I thought you should be told what wasn't unbiblical.. IHS jim
More unbiblical rubbish.... In fact, you don't even make sense coming from your own point of view????

Listen... It's very simple.

If you believe you can not lose your salvation, (salvation being defined from your point of view) then you likewise believe that it is impossible for someone to know whether are not they are really saved.

For instance, if I believed I was saved after having made an alter call with a sincere heart, and then 2 years later I commited a rape and a murder; then which is true?

1. That's proof I was never saved to begin with.

Or...

2. No need to worry, because Christ already had that one covered.

[Sir]

More unbiblical rubbish.... In fact, you don't even make sense coming from your own point of view????

Listen... It's very simple.

If you believe you can not lose your salvation, (salvation being defined from your point of view) then you likewise believe that it is impossible for someone to know whether are not they are really saved.

For instance, if I believed I was saved after having made an alter call with a sincere heart, and then 2 years later I commited a rape and a murder; then which is true?

1. That's proof I was never saved to begin with.

Or...

2. No need to worry, because Christ already had that one covered.

Good point.

They will say that God knows your heart, and if you really believed in Jesus, then the answer is #2.

But if you are someone who has accepted the gospel of Jesus and then goes down a different path later on, they will say that you simply were never saved in the first place. That's how they justify their position when the problems arise. It's easier to just claim the person was never really saved in the first place than to understand how people can believe different things about Jesus and his gospel and still be saved.

[RealFakeHair]

Do you understand the concept of the path that leads to eternal life?


You are of course wrong, if you're saying that LDS believe that a person can lose his salvation. You can't lose something that hasn't been given to you yet.


Well done. Yes, the Bible doctrine that it's possible to start down the path that LEADS to eternal life, but stray OFF that path and end up at some other destination--is also an LDS doctrine.
Do you have a problem with that Biblical doctrine?

There in lies the difference between LDSinc. and The Christian belief of of Once saved always saved, as I believe.
I believe the Grace of Jesus Christ through His blood over came what the Law could not do. It gives the believe eternal security in Christ Jesus, or else why have the blood of Christ at all? Just keep the old Law and the sarifice altar fires buring.

[theway]

Good point.

They will say that God knows your heart, and if you really believed in Jesus, then the answer is #2.

.That's the problem, it's not whether God knows, it's can you know whether you are saved or not under AntiMormon theology? Under the AntiMormon theology, you'll always be second guessing yourself.

I am saved and I sin!

Or is it

I sin, am I saved?

[nrajeffreturns]

There in lies the difference between LDSinc. and The Christian belief of of Once saved always saved, as I believe.
And OSAS is a dogma of Calvinism, and Calvinism is a small subset of Christianity. So you can get away with calling OSAS a Christian belief, as long as you are willing to also call Catholic Transubstantiation or Mary as a Coredemptrix, Christian beliefs.

Are you willing to do that?


I believe the Grace of Jesus Christ through His blood over came what the Law could not do. It gives the believe eternal security in Christ Jesus, or else why have the blood of Christ at all? Just keep the old Law and the sarifice altar fires buring.
You are on an irrelevant tangent. The issue is whether all who start on the path that leads to eternal life have some unconditional guarantee that they will stay on it to its destination. If the correct answer is "no" (which it is), then OSAS has one huge strike against it being true.

[theway]

There in lies the difference between LDSinc. and The Christian belief of of Once saved always saved, as I believe.
I believe the Grace of Jesus Christ through His blood over came what the Law could not do. It gives the believe eternal security in Christ Jesus, or else why have the blood of Christ at all? Just keep the old Law and the sarifice altar fires buring.So you are saying that if you went out and killed someone, that you know you would have nothing to worry about with God.

[Sir]

That's the problem, it's not whether God knows, it's can you know whether you are saved or not under AntiMormon theology? Under the AntiMormon theology, you'll always be second guessing yourself.

I am saved and I sin?

Or is it

I sin, am I saved?

Or is it, i no longer believe the Bible the same way I did when I was saved, am I now NOT saved? Or does that mean I was never saved in the first place?

Yep....

[RealFakeHair]

So you are saying that if you went out and killed someone, that you know you would have nothing to worry about with God.

I didn't say it was fair that I could kill someone or more than one person and still be Saved, but I didn't make the rule.
We humans seem to be quite able to condemn a murder to eternal exile, but excuse a little white lie, but to God a sin is a sin.
PS to the person I killed, I wonder if they were so willingly to forgive? Oh by the way it is only a hypothetical question, I haven killed anyone yet.

[James Banta]

I didn't say it was fair that I could kill someone or more than one person and still be Saved, but I didn't make the rule.
We humans seem to be quite able to condemn a murder to eternal exile, but excuse a little white lie, but to God a sin is a sin.
PS to the person I killed, I wonder if they were so willingly to forgive? Oh by the way it is only a hypothetical question, I haven killed anyone yet.

By what Jesus taught us I am a murderer.. I have been angry more than once without just cause.. According to our Lord that is murder.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

More unbiblical rubbish.... In fact, you don't even make sense coming from your own point of view????

Listen... It's very simple.

If you believe you can not lose your salvation, (salvation being defined from your point of view) then you likewise believe that it is impossible for someone to know whether are not they are really saved.

For instance, if I believed I was saved after having made an alter call with a sincere heart, and then 2 years later I commited a rape and a murder; then which is true?

1. That's proof I was never saved to begin with.

Or...

2. No need to worry, because Christ already had that one covered.

I know you hate my "unbiblical rubbish" but my answers are embedded in it. That which you attack with those words is the Bible.. Your answer to how we know we are saved and why once we are saved we forever belong to Jesus is Biblical..

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If you believe in Jesus you have Eternal life.. Even in mormonism eternal life and salvation mean the same thing..

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

How can a person made to be the righteousness of God and still be seen as being in sin of any kind.. You laid the ground rules here you said that This man's confession was sincere.. In that case it isn't he that sinned but sin that lives in his flesh (Romans 7:17).. But that is unbiblical rubbish too, right? After it has the same source of all my unbiblical rubbish.. The Bible.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Here is the answer:

If you read the Mat 12 verse that is at the heart of this issue what you learn is that the sin that is not forgiven is to speak against the Holy Spirit.
The example given us was that some Jews said that Jesus cast out demons by the power of the devil.

So we have to look at this issue with the understanding that the unforgivable sin had something to do with the ability of a person to believe Jesus had the authority to do his works from God and not from the devil.

But it is also interesting to remember that the Jews that were the target of the unforgivable sin teaching did not actually bring up the name of the Holy Spirit....nor would I expect them to even know about the Holy Spirit.

So the sin that is always unforgiving seems to cover a bunch of stuff, and we are not talking about one single type of list-able sin, but rather an "at***ude that rejects Jesus's authority"



So we dont have to worry that you might have said the wrong wording one time and broken the unforgivable sin.
and you dont have to worry that you might have broken this sin....for the truth is, the people that are truly guilty never worry about it.....Thats why the sin is never dealt with,,,never repented of.



So the person that claims that the "Unforgivable sin" is talking about many types of things is correct.