The worst failing of Mormonsim

[James Banta]

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. Any revelation of Him must agree with all He has taught us about Himself in His word or we have invented a God made up in the heart of flesh.

He tells us that He is One Lord.. If anyone teaches that God is three they disagree with His revelation. He tells us that He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting. Of anyone teaches that they know how God became God, they again teach the message of a deceitful heart. The Lord Jesus taught us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as it was obvious He had. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches is that God is invisible. Anyone that teaches that God is a being of flesh and bone again teaches from their own understanding and will not submit to the righteousness of God.

Mormonism teaches all those errors and yet tries to teach the world that they are the most Bible believing people of all Christ believing people.. Maybe they need to change their AofF to reflect how they really believe the Bible. Not even as far as it is translated correctly but only as far as they can force the square peg of mormonism into the clearly round opening of the Bible.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. IHS jim

Well, that sure ****s a hole in the Faith Aloners' theology!!!

"No, I'm sorry. You aren't saved by grace through faith. You are only saved based on your knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who sent Him."

[James Banta]

Well, that sure ****s a hole in the Faith Aloners' theology!!!

"No, I'm sorry. You aren't saved by grace through faith. You are only saved based on your knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who sent Him."

What the p***age teaches us is that it is only in knowing the only true God that eternal life can be found. These Persons can only be know by faith. That reaffirms that it is by Grace through faith and not of WORKS where salvation can be obtained.

Why do you make it a practice to try to set p***ages of scripture against each other instead of finding how they complement each other? You saw a false meaning in the p***age I quoted believing that it denied another p***age of scripture, WHY? All I see is so you can cling to a man invented teaching that the Bible is flawed and untrustworthy. If you would come instead from the concept that the Bible is all God's truth, then you would start to see the truth, Until you come to that realization you will remain lost on that spiritually deadly wide easy road.. iHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

What the p***age teaches us is that it is only in knowing the only true God that eternal life can be found. These Persons can only be know by faith. That reaffirms that it is by Grace through faith and not of WORKS where salvation can be obtained.

So your first post only talks about knowing God. Then when challenged on it you then say that one can only know God through faith. Well, I can then add that only those who have works have true and living faith. So, if you link those together, one can say that they must have works to know God.

Also, in your first post you mentioned that Jesus says God is Spirit. What you left out is that he also says that we must worship Him in spirit and truth. Now, if we take the interpretation that Jesus is saying that God is only Spirit, then we should also take it that we must worship Him in only spirit. How can one do that in this life? One must shed their body to worship Him in only spirit. How can we do that?

[RealFakeHair]

Well, that sure ****s a hole in the Faith Aloners' theology!!!

"No, I'm sorry. You aren't saved by grace through faith. You are only saved based on your knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who sent Him."

One must know both Old Testament and New to fully understand the meaning of Grace. Remember Grace does what the Law could not.
Oh, and another thought. If The God of the Holy Bible is the only True God does that make His grandfather a false god?

[Sir]

Oh, and another thought. If The God of the Holy Bible is the only True God does that make His grandfather a false god?

Another thought:

The verse says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate en***y? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

[James Banta]

[Snow Patrol;149294]So your first post only talks about knowing God. Then when challenged on it you then say that one can only know God through faith. Well, I can then add that only those who have works have true and living faith. So, if you link those together, one can say that they must have works to know God.

And what does Jesus say is the work of God?

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

As for James.. I have been through that deeply over the past few days as I held up the lack of charitable giving from the LDS church.. The Word James points to are clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, and caring for the needs of the orphan. It should be enough for you for me to tell you that I do those things.. My reserved the details of my giving for Jesus and Him alone.. You have seen in my posts the agencies I support listed as examples of the percent of their income that is used to support the needy.. I will also tell you that giving is a love offering not a mere ***he.. By using one of the agencies I have listed in that thread my offering is magnified in their purchasing power. I don't like discussing my giving. I agree with Jesus that my left hand should know what my right hand is doing.. let this be the last time we have to discuss me personally in relation to James 2.. I see James 2 being kept by the Church not as a way to gain faith, not even as an example to the world that they have faith. What it is, is a response to the love Jesus have offered us.. We love Him and his little ones because He LOVED US FIRST.


Also, in your first post you mentioned that Jesus says God is Spirit. What you left out is that he also says that we must worship Him in spirit and truth. Now, if we take the interpretation that Jesus is saying that God is only Spirit, then we should also take it that we must worship Him in only spirit. How can one do that in this life? One must shed their body to worship Him in only spirit. How can we do that?

God is Spirit.. Why would Jesus make a point about saying that if He were a person of flesh and bone as tangible as man? Would he have told us that God is a tangible God/Man instead of saying that He is Spirit? But Jesus makes it clear that God is Spirit. Then later He tells us that a spirit has not a body of flesh and bone. That makes the nature of the invisible God (Yes, a God that isn't seen, a God that CAN'T be seen by eyes of mere flesh). Still you are right, we are to worship Him in spirit and truth.. Tell me how can I become truth? I can tell the truth, I can understand truth, but in my nature, God says that my heart (my very being) is deceitful, and more than that, it is deceitful above ALL things. But I am still commanded by the Lord to worship God in truth.. So I am to worship in truth and I am not truth (Only Jesus is the Truth) then not being a person of only spirit should disqualify me from worshiping God in spirit. I don't have to physically worship, offering sacrifice, or doing some ceremony to worship Him.. I can recognize His Godhood, His Glory, and Majesty. I can praise Him for who He is and all He has done.. I can hold Him dearer to me than anything I have ever known and that would be worshiping Him in spirit.. You may stop adding to the scripture now.. I can worship Him in many ways (prayer, giving, ***embling with others who believe Him) and not ONLY one way. Still I am called to worship Him in Spirit, and in Truth, for that is how he desires me to worship Him.. IHS jim

[Sir]

What the p***age teaches us is that it is only in knowing the only true God that eternal life can be found. These Persons can only be know by faith. That reaffirms that it is by Grace through faith and not of WORKS where salvation can be obtained.

But faith isn't having a knowledge of things. Faith is the substance of theings "hoped" for.


Why do you make it a practice to try to set p***ages of scripture against each other instead of finding how they complement each other? You saw a false meaning in the p***age I quoted believing that it denied another p***age of scripture, WHY? All I see is so you can cling to a man invented teaching that the Bible is flawed and untrustworthy. If you would come instead from the concept that the Bible is all God's truth, then you would start to see the truth, Until you come to that realization you will remain lost on that spiritually deadly wide easy road.. iHS jim

All I see is the typical whining rant of James when his posts get debated and questioned, and when people see things different than you, you go off on the "your lost and blind and spiritually dead" mantra.

Boring.

[RealFakeHair]

Another thought:

The verse says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate en***y? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

Well, you could either say Jesus Christ is one member of the Godhead ie Trinity, or else He is a false god, take your pick.

[James Banta]

Another thought:

The verse says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate en***y? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

You always harp about how false the doctine of trinity is but you can argue that the Father is the only true God, now can you it's right there in that scripture.. But the LDS call Jesus a God as well.. If the Father is the only true God but Jesus is a separate God then He must be a false God. The ONLY way Jesus can be God, the true God, is if He is one Being with the other Persons that are called God in the Scripture.. ONLY in the doctrine of the Trinity can the Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus be the one true God. No, mormonism in this p***age denies the deity of the Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.. That is counter to the teachings of Joseph Smith as he said:

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three const i tute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

Who will you believe God (Jesus), or a mere man (Smith).. If Smith and God then you are admitting that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are false Gods according to the verse "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.".. IHS jim

[Sir]

Well, you could either say Jesus Christ is one member of the Godhead ie Trinity, or else He is a false god, take your pick.

You didn't address my post.

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate ent.ity? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

[RealFakeHair]

You didn't address my post.

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate ent.ity? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

They are seperate persons, that we can agree on, God The Father is the only True God, but if we leave it there then as it has been said before.(Houston we have a problem).
However in other verse in the Holy Bible we find that The Father and the Son are one, one what do you ask?
Isaiah 44.6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God
Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
As we find here Jesus and God are both the First and the Last, and beside me there is no God.
We Christians didn't just make up the Trinity out of thin air. We Had no choice in the matter.

[Sir]

They are seperate persons, that we can agree on, God The Father is the only True God, but if we leave it there then as it has been said before.(Houston we have a problem).
However in other verse in the Holy Bible we find that The Father and the Son are one, one what do you ask?
Isaiah 44.6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God
Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
As we find here Jesus and God are both the First and the Last, and beside me there is no God.
We Christians didn't just make up the Trinity out of thin air. We Had no choice in the matter.

Who is Jesus' God?

[James Banta]

[Sir;149298]But faith isn't having a knowledge of things. Faith is the substance of theings "hoped" for.

Biblical.. I have no objection.. In no way did I ever say anything that disagrees with that statement..




All I see is the typical whining rant of James when his posts get debated and questioned, and when people see things different than you, you go off on the "your lost and blind and spiritually dead" mantra.

Boring.

And you pray that your missionaries are lead to the "honest" of heart do you not? Just what is that saying about those of us that know the real foundation of mormonism? About the occultic spiritualism in the gl*** looking, the womanizing of polygamy, and the murder of MMM.. I am honest in quoting the word of God and what do you say about lesson direct from God's word "BORING".. You call it a Mantra, I call it a warning from God Himself (Rev 20:15).. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Who is Jesus' God?

His flesh? The same as ours.. The one true God of heaven and earth the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Who is Jesus' God?

Lets see what Jesus had to say about it. Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Taking into account there is only one God Form, Jesus can only be God or else the Holy Bible lied, and I do not believe it does. Thus Jesus is God, God The Father is God and the Holy Ghost is God. Three Persons, one Godhead.

[Sir]

His flesh? The same as ours.. The one true God of heaven and earth the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. IHS jim

Jesus is his own God?

[Sir]

Lets see what Jesus had to say about it. Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Taking into account there is only one God Form, Jesus can only be God or else the Holy Bible lied, and I do not believe it does. Thus Jesus is God, God The Father is God and the Holy Ghost is God. Three Persons, one Godhead.

Jesus didn't say that.

[RealFakeHair]

Jesus didn't say that.

Okay, then who thought it was not robbery to be equal with God?

[Snow Patrol]

Okay, then who thought it was not robbery to be equal with God?

Being equal with something requires two things. How can something be equal to God if He is God? I'm not equal to myself. It just doesn't make sense.

[RealFakeHair]

Being equal with something requires two things. How can something be equal to God if He is God? I'm not equal to myself. It just doesn't make sense.

Well, I am glad to say, no one is equal to me. However you will agree if you are equal to someone it means you are not lower or higher, but equal. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God

[Snow Patrol]

Well, I am glad to say, no one is equal to me. However you will agree if you are equal to someone it means you are not lower or higher, but equal. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God

Hey we agree.

[RealFakeHair]

Hey we agree.

That's no fun!

[Sir]

Okay, then who thought it was not robbery to be equal with God?

Jesus.

But Jesus didn't say that. Paul did.

[RealFakeHair]

Jesus.

But Jesus didn't say that. Paul did.

Okay, so was Paul correct in his statement or not?

[Sir]

Okay, so was Paul correct in his statement or not?

yes, Jesus was equal to His God.

paul was correct, you were not.

[RealFakeHair]

yes, Jesus was equal to His God.

paul was correct, you were not.

Okay, good, now when did he become equal with his god?

[Sir]

Okay, good, now when did he become equal with his god?

At some point, obviously.

And who do you say was "his God"?

[RealFakeHair]

At some point, obviously.

And who do you say was "his God"?

No it is not obviously, there must be a time line or event or else we are all equal to his god.

[Sir]

No it is not obviously, there must be a time line or event or else we are all equal to his god.

Who is Jesus' God?

You keep ignoring that question.

[RealFakeHair]

Who is Jesus' God?

You keep ignoring that question.

You're just now asking me who is Jesus, why He is The Son of God, as it states He is equal to His Father. As the Holy Bible states Jesus and God His Father are the first and the last, one in the same, but two persons.
Now that I have answered your question, try answering my question of when did Jesus become equal to his Father?

[Sir]

You're just now asking me who is Jesus, why He is The Son of God, as it states He is equal to His Father. As the Holy Bible states Jesus and God His Father are the first and the last, one in the same, but two persons.
Now that I have answered your question, try answering my question of when did Jesus become equal to his Father?

No, you haven't answered.

It's an easy question: Who is Jesus' God?

I know the answer. I'm trying to find out if you do.

Jesus said that he has a God. Remember?

[RealFakeHair]

No, you haven't answered.

It's an easy question: Who is Jesus' God?

I know the answer. I'm trying to find out if you do.
Wait are you asking who is Jesus's God? If this is the question I'd be glad to answer it.
Jesus said that he has a God. Remember?

Wait are you asking who is Jesus's God? If this is the question I'd be glad to answer it.
Jesus is the Son of God, His Father, He called Him My Father, and he called Him, My God, and God called Jesus His Son, but never his god son.
Jesus while in the flesh and taking upon himself the sins of the world His Looke upon His Father as also His God.
In this relationship only a mortal man could take upon himself sins of the world. Thus the both God/and man Jesus did his work here on earth. However at no time did Jesus ever stop being Emmanuel. Oh by the way doesn't my God, my God sound better than me God, me God?
Now your answer?

[James Banta]

Jesus is his own God?

Just who do you believe Jesus is? Is He or is He not the Child foretold by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 9 verse 6? Is that Child not called the Might God, the Everlasting Father? How many true Gods does the Bible say exist? Just one! So that one God is the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. The fleshly body of the Lord Jesus was a creation of God.. I have already established that Jesus is God, and that God created His mortal body.. I see no other answer other than YES, Jesus is the Creator of His earthy body.. If you disagree you are telling me that you either deny that Jesus is God, or you deny that God created the flesh of Jesus. Who knows what you believe, all mormons believe different doctrines. Maybe you deny both.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

No, you haven't answered.

It's an easy question: Who is Jesus' God?

I know the answer. I'm trying to find out if you do.

Jesus said that he has a God. Remember?

Yes and he does.. His God is the one true and living God.. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. There is no other and this God is one Lord.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Jesus didn't say that.

Is the whole Bible God's word? Even if you believe it has been mistranslated the LDS Creed calls the Bible the word of God.. That same Bible calls Jesus God.. Therefore even the Epistles are His word. They can all be ascribed to Jesus.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Yes and he does.. His God is the one true and living God.. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. There is no other and this God is one Lord.. IHS jim

It's a little strange to suggest that Jesus stating he was going to "His God" means he was going to the Father AND going to Himself, as though his self was still in Heaven with the father while His self was still on earth.

[Sir]

Is the whole Bible God's word? Even if you believe it has been mistranslated the LDS Creed calls the Bible the word of God.. That same Bible calls Jesus God.. Therefore even the Epistles are His word. They can all be ascribed to Jesus.. IHS jim

I forgot that you are a bibliolotrist.

No, James, you cannot claim that every word in the Bible was spoken by Jesus (since that was the conversation you seem that you have interjected your comments in ).

[James Banta]

I forgot that you are a bibliolotrist.

No, James, you cannot claim that every word in the Bible was spoken by Jesus (since that was the conversation you seem that you have interjected your comments in ).

I never said that ever word was spoken by Jesus, I said the Bible is the word of God and that Jesus is God therefore the Bible is the word of Jesus.. Can you show me where I said Jesus spoke every word of the Bible, is any language? No it's not there! IHS jim

[James Banta]

It's a little strange to suggest that Jesus stating he was going to "His God" means he was going to the Father AND going to Himself, as though his self was still in Heaven with the father while His self was still on earth.

Again this come down to DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE OR NOT.. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God and that God is omnipresent.

1 Kings 8:27
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee...

If you believe these things (the Bible), then you must believe that nothing is large enough to contain God. Not even the created flesh He used to walk among us during His mortal ministry. In this p***age He was preparing to present Himself before the Throne of God in the resurrection body God created for Him.. Does that mean He was only in that body and not in the hearts of believing people?

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me".

Eph 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith...

Didn't the Apostle teach these thing AFTER Jesus was resurrected? And yet he make it clear through the authority of the Holy Spirit that Jesus still can live within us? It doesn't matter if you understand the power of God or His nature or not.. God is what He is and your lack of understanding of Him doesn't change that.. Was Jesus with the Father, Yes He is always with the Father. Was He still on earth, Yes, He said He would always be with us and never forsake us. It's about time you believe all of His word instead of just those you already agree with.. IHS jim

[theway]

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

LOL.....
So says a follower of "The Great Mystery" better known as the Trinity doctrine.

[theway]

Again this come down to DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE OR NOT.. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God and that God is omnipresent.

Really???

Is God in Hell?

If Jesus is God, and Jesus has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bone "never to be separated from", then aren't you admitting that Joseph Smith was right; that God has a body of flesh and bones?

[Sir]

Really???

Is God in Hell?

If Jesus is God, and Jesus has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bone "never to be separated from", then aren't you admitting that Joseph Smith was right; that God has a body of flesh and bones?

James has a strange belief about Jesus, IIRC.

Here he is stating that "Was Jesus with the Father, Yes He is always with the Father. Was He still on earth, Yes, He said He would always be with us and never forsake us."

James' belief of Jesus is that, since he is outside of time, he is actually perpetually present in all parts of time, and he is also perpetually in all locations at once. He states that Jesus was on earth as a man, but he was also still "with the father". I even remember when James told us that Jesus is continually dying on the cross. He is perpetually there, since he is everywhere at everytime and not limited to the time of earth.

It gets to be a dizzying and incomprehensible position to take, but James says if we don't believe that position we are not able to be saved.

[RealFakeHair]

Sir, I hope you're not copping out on me. Now when did Jesus become equal with His Father?

[nrajeffreturns]

Sir, I hope you're not copping out on me. Now when did Jesus become equal with His Father?
What makes you think He already did? How do you know it's not a future event?

[theway]

James has a strange belief about Jesus, IIRC.

Here he is stating that "Was Jesus with the Father, Yes He is always with the Father. Was He still on earth, Yes, He said He would always be with us and never forsake us."

James' belief of Jesus is that, since he is outside of time, he is actually perpetually present in all parts of time, and he is also perpetually in all locations at once. He states that Jesus was on earth as a man, but he was also still "with the father". I even remember when James told us that Jesus is continually dying on the cross. He is perpetually there, since he is everywhere at everytime and not limited to the time of earth.

It gets to be a dizzying and incomprehensible position to take, but James says if we don't believe that position we are not able to be saved.Yeah... I've heard tell of this bizarre scenario. The only problem is all the paradoxes it creates.

For instance, how can they claim they are saved if right now Christ has yet to go to the cross?
"It is finished" means nothing.

[James Banta]

Really???

Is God in Hell?

If Jesus is God, and Jesus has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bone "never to be separated from", then aren't you admitting that Joseph Smith was right; that God has a body of flesh and bones?

We can say that God does have a body of Flesh and Bone in the Person of Jesus.. So at the fave time we must agree that Jesus is the invisible God who is spirit, a spirit that has not flesh and bone.. I am fine with that too.. God isn't three separate beings, He is One Lord. Everything that the Father and Holy Spirit is so is Christ..

Ok is God in hell? OF COURSE!! Jesus took my sin and paid the FULL penalty for it.. That means He will eternally be in Hell.. Not only is He there to pay my debt, but He created the place.. In doing that His eternal omnipresent nature makes it impossible not to be there.. So you can limit God to fit your preconceived anti Bible notion of what He is or you can read His word and see that He is as I said before. That God is to Big too be constrained even in the feebly mind of men.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Yeah... I've heard tell of this bizarre scenario. The only problem is all the paradoxes it creates.

For instance, how can they claim they are saved if right now Christ has yet to go to the cross?
"It is finished" means nothing.

How can that be if the cross is PRESENT at the cross and He is Present laying the foundation of the universe, as He is enthroned at the end of the age.. Remember the meaning of YHWH? It isn't I was, or I will be, it is I AM.. As He stood before the Pharisees Jesus said that "I AM before Abraham was".. Was He lying.. You sure seem to want to make Him out to be a liar a lot.. IHS jim

[theway]

We can say that God does have a body of Flesh and Bone in the Person of Jesus.. So at the fave time we must agree that Jesus is the invisible God who is spirit, a spirit that has not flesh and bone.. I am fine with that too.. God isn't three separate beings, He is One Lord. Everything that the Father and Holy Spirit is so is Christ..

Ok is God in hell? OF COURSE!! Jesus took my sin and paid the FULL penalty for it.. That means He will eternally be in Hell.. Not only is He there to pay my debt, but He created the place.. In doing that His eternal omnipresent nature make it impossible not to be there.. So you can limit God to fit your preconceived anti Bible notion of what He is or you can read His word and see that He is as I said before. That God is to Big too be constrained even in the feebly mind of men.. IHS jimWell, I think I'm done listening to this nonsense (or more like this No-Sense).
This was so *****ic, I don't know where I would start.

James I love you man, but run from this heresy as fast as you can.

[Sir]

Sir, I hope you're not copping out on me. Now when did Jesus become equal with His Father?

I already told you.

We know Jesus became part of the Godhead before his earthly ministry. We also know that it wasn't until Jesus had a resurrected body that he was even more like his Father.

That's about all I need to know.

You?

[Sir]

We can say that God does have a body of Flesh and Bone in the Person of Jesus.. So at the fave time we must agree that Jesus is the invisible God who is spirit, a spirit that has not flesh and bone.. I am fine with that too.. God isn't three separate beings, He is One Lord. Everything that the Father and Holy Spirit is so is Christ..

Ok is God in hell? OF COURSE!! Jesus took my sin and paid the FULL penalty for it.. That means He will eternally be in Hell.. Not only is He there to pay my debt, but He created the place.. In doing that His eternal omnipresent nature make it impossible not to be there.. So you can limit God to fit your preconceived anti Bible notion of what He is or you can read His word and see that He is as I said before. That God is to Big too be constrained even in the feebly mind of men.. IHS jim

Uhhhhhhhh..........

Yeah, what 'theway" said.

[James Banta]

Well, I think I'm done listening to this nonsense (or more like this No-Sense).
This was so *****ic, I don't know where I would start.

James I love you man, but run from this heresy as fast as you can.

I should run from the idea that God is the creator of all things whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. I will not do so for in doing that I deny who my God is..

I know that the finally judgment of God on sin will be to cast unrepentant sinners into the Lake of Fire eternally.. God's word tell me that, Jesus was made to be sin for me. That means He who knew no sin was condemned to the judgment for sin in my place. That is the Good News the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I will not run from it. I will morn because I was the cause of that judgment, and I will stand amazed at His grace and willingness to give His all for my salvation.. Maybe you see it as I D I O T I C because the Gospel of Christ is foolishness to those that are perishing.. I will continue to pray for you and all the LDS that you might be saved.. That was Paul's prayer to God for His people Israel. That is my prayer for my people the LDS.. IHS jim

[theway]

I know that the finally judgment of God on sin will be to cast unrepentant sinners into the Lake of Fire eternally.. LOL....
What does that matter?
After all, according to you, Jesus will be there too.

[James Banta]

LOL....
What does that matter?
After all, according to you, Jesus will be there too.

Will be? When did I said he will be.. He is!!!! Tell me what it matters to those that have been there for a few thousand years.. Without that understanding I figured you would have such a "So what" att itude.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

LOL.....
So says a follower of "The Great Mystery" better known as the Trinity doctrine.

As it can be clearly seen in the Bible.. IHS jim

[theway]

Maybe you see it as I D I O T I C because the Gospel of Christ is foolishness to those that are perishing..
And maybe James... things are seen as I D I O T I C and foolish, because they "ARE" I D I O T I C and foolish.


I will continue to pray for you and all the LDS that you might be saved.. That was Paul's prayer to God for His people Israel. That is my prayer for my people the LDS.. IHS jimAnother paradox of AntiMormon theology.
According to you guys, "God does it all" and the actions of man whether they be sinners or saved will have no effect on what God does.
Therefore your prayers are useless if I am not already one of the predestined to be Saved. In fact, if I am not one of the predestined, then you are praying for an outcome different than God's Will... Making you the same as Satan.

If you really believed what you preached, then the only thing you can say would be "Thy Will be done" and stop trying to change things, pray for people, try to get them out of cults, or preach anything, for fear of going against his Will.

[theway]

Will be? When did I said he will be.. He is!!!! Tell me what it matters to those that have been there for a few thousand years.. Without that understanding I figured you would have such a "So what" att itude.. IHS jimYour theory that God is outside time means that, will be, is now, and was, are all legitimate responses.
And this is exactly why you made up these theories, it's an attempt by you to try and reconcile all the contradictions and paradoxes that your theology creates. However the only thing which you have actually created, are more paradoxes and contradictions.

Given that, I can say "So What" to anything you say, because your made up beliefs have made the opposite position to everything you say, all true at the same time.

[Sir]

Your theory that God is outside time means that, will be, is now, and was, are all legitimate responses.
And this is exactly why you made up these theories, it's an attempt by you to try and reconcile all the contradictions and paradoxes that your theology creates. However the only thing which you have actually created, are more paradoxes and contradictions.

Given that, I can say "So What" to anything you say, because your made up beliefs have made the opposite position to everything you say, all true at the same time.

Yep.

And if God and Jesus are also in Hell, then that would really mean Hell is also a Heaven.

So according to the gospel of James Banta, there really is no Hell at all and no need for LDS to change since God will be everywhere we go anyway.

[theway]

Yep.

And if God and Jesus are also in Hell, then that would really mean Hell is also a Heaven.

So according to the gospel of James Banta, there really is no Hell at all and no need for LDS to change since God will be everywhere we go anyway.Or like I said it makes the opposite true, that it doesn't matter whether you go to Heaven or Hell because you will be with your Savior and God either way.

[James Banta]

Or like I said it makes the opposite true, that it doesn't matter whether you go to Heaven or Hell because you will be with your Savior and God either way.

Just because God is omnipresent doesn't mean He will be with the sinner. They have rejected Him.But, either He is the God described in the Bible or He isn't.. Mormonism insists that He isn't.. Therefore mormonism has created their own god and as we all can see will not submit to righteousness, or power of the Biblical God.. IHS jim

[theway]

Just because God is omnipresent doesn't mean He will be with the sinner. They have rejected Him.But, either He is the God described in the Bible or He isn't.. Mormonism insists that He isn't.. Therefore mormonism has created their own god and as we all can see will not submit to righteousness, or power of the Biblical God.. IHS jim
LOL.... So Jesus (who has become sin) will be in Hell, but he will not ***ociate with the sinners (who are merely sinners)

But wait... Didn't you also say that God was everywhere? And now you say He will not be in our segregated part of Hell?

LOL... Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

[nrajeffreturns]

LOL.... So Jesus (who has become sin) will be in Hell, but he will not ***ociate with the sinners (who are merely sinners)

But wait... Didn't you also say that God was everywhere? And now you say He will not be in our segregated part of Hell?

LOL... Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

It's what happens when people take certain Bible verses too literally--especially verses that were obviously intended to be metaphors.

[James Banta]

LOL.... So Jesus (who has become sin) will be in Hell, but he will not ***ociate with the sinners (who are merely sinners)

But wait... Didn't you also say that God was everywhere? And now you say He will not be in our segregated part of Hell?

LOL... Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

Can there be fellowship with anyone or anything while all that is experienced is weeping and gnashing of teeth? hell is private for each and every sinner condemned to it's confines.. I don't make this stuff up like the LDS make up their weird doctrines. Mine is reported in Jude 6; Matt 8:12; Matt 13:42, 50; and Matt 25:30..

I have shown you that God MUST punish sin, That Jesus became sin in the place of the believing sinner. God wrath then fell on Him.. How long does that punishment endure? ETERNALLY (Rev 20:11).. But you can believe in the words of a man over the word of God, I am sure that God will understand as you stand before His Great White Throne to be judged (NOT).. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Can there be fellowship with anyone or anything while all that is experienced is weeping and gnashing of teeth?
Sure! Don't worry, Jim, those of us who go to heaven will be allowed to visit you antis, and fellowship with you occasionally. We will bring Kleenex for the weeping, and we will bring Sensodyne for your sore teeth. :)


hell is private for each and every sinner condemned to it's confines.. I don't make this stuff up like the LDS make up their weird doctrines.
If you aren't the one making up your weird doctrines, then who is making them up for you?


Mine is reported in Jude 6; Matt 8:12; Matt 13:42, 50; and Matt 25:30..

"6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

12 "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

30 "And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

No "private" mentioned in any of those, Jim. So yep--you made that up.


... Jesus became sin in the place of the believing sinner.
What did Jesus do for the NON-believing sinner, Jim? Nothing? You're making up stuff again.


But you can believe in the words of a man over the word of God,
No thanks. I don't want to believe in your words.


I am sure that God will understand as you stand before His Great White Throne to be judged (NOT)..
So you feel you can speak for God regarding what He will and won't understand? Wow.
You don't think God is all-understanding?

You're gonna need that Kleenex and Sensodyne.....

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149458]Sure! Don't worry, Jim, those of us who go to heaven will be allowed to visit you antis, and fellowship with you occasionally. We will bring Kleenex for the weeping, and we will bring Sensodyne for your sore teeth. :)

And your authority for this is what the inerrant "Because I said so"?


If you aren't the one making up your weird doctrines, then who is making them up for you?

You deny that the Bible teaches that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire? Just who is there to comfort them.. Looke at te parable of the Rich man and Lazerth and see what is taught there about the rich man in the flame.. And that is before the judgement. The Lake of Fire (post judgment) is much worse.


"6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

12 "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

30 "And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

No "private" mentioned in any of those, Jim. So yep--you made that up.

Does it sound like these will be in the mood for fellowship? Have you ever been really sick? I have.. I had no desire for anyone to visit me until I felt better. And you believe that a person in the worst pain a person has ever felt, a agony that is only described as a Lake of Fire, will have fellowship one with another or even visits from others whose names were in the Book of Life? And you say I made up what I am saying.. WOW...



What did Jesus do for the NON-believing sinner, Jim? Nothing? You're making up stuff again.

That gets into points of Calvinism.. Calvinist believe that God did nothing for them.. I disagree with Calvinism on that point. I believe the Bible where we are taught that Jesus died once for ALL (Hebrews 9:28).. but not all are willing to receive Him by faith and became his children. It is by grace accessed through Faith in Jesus that allows our names to be in the Lamb's book of life.. Better reread my statement I said nothing about unbelievers..


No thanks. I don't want to believe in your words.

I was thinking more the words of Smith over the Bible.. Those you seem to accept quite easily..


So you feel you can speak for God regarding what He will and won't understand? Wow.
You don't think God is all-understanding?

See I make many errors in what I write here. Sometimes no matter how many time I proof read it it always says what I want it to say instead of what it says. It should read:

I am sure that God will understand and have sympathy for your excuses as you stand before His Great White Throne to be judged (NOT)..

God will have no mind that that time for nonsense.. I hope that is clearer to you even if you don't agree..


You're gonna need that Kleenex and Sensodyne.

I am actually going to ask for His grace of not having to watch the judgment of the dead.. IHS jim

[neverending]

It has been a very long time since I was last here. As for your comment I must say, how do you know for certain that you will go to heaven? And snide comments won't impress anyone, these are subjects that should be taken seriously for we are speaking of people's eternal destiny, not just something that will happen for a few days or months or years but eternity!

[Sir]

It has been a very long time since I was last here. As for your comment I must say, how do you know for certain that you will go to heaven? And snide comments won't impress anyone, these are subjects that should be taken seriously for we are speaking of people's eternal destiny, not just something that will happen for a few days or months or years but eternity!

I see you got the call.

???

[nrajeffreturns]

You deny that the Bible teaches that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire?
I don't deny that.


Just who is there to comfort them..
The other people who were sent there, presumably.


Looke at te parable of the Rich man and Lazerth and see what is taught there about the rich man in the flame.. And that is before the judgement. The Lake of Fire (post judgment) is much worse.
That doesn't mean that each person who goes there will be alone.


Does it sound like these will be in the mood for fellowship?
Prisoners often desire fellowship. But that is not relevant, because the issue is whether those imprisoned in hell will be in solitary confinement or not. You say yes, I say the answer is unknown to us.


Have you ever been really sick?
Yes.


I have.. I had no desire for anyone to visit me until I felt better.
In my case, the sicker I got, the more I wanted someone to be with me.


And you believe that a person in the worst pain a person has ever felt, a agony that is only described as a Lake of Fire, will have fellowship one with another or even visits from others whose names were in the Book of Life? And you say I made up what I am saying.. WOW...
Yes, I think you made it up. It may be correct, but it's extrabiblical.


That gets into points of Calvinism.. Calvinist believe that God did nothing for them.. I disagree with Calvinism on that point.
That is good to know. I am glad you reject that part of Calvinism.

[neverending]

I see you got the call.

???

Sir,
Today being Thanksgiving, I do sincerely wish you and all your loved ones a very special day. May it bring many wonderful memories to one and all. As you sit down with your family may you pray and thank the Lord for His many blessings He has so graciously given to you. There are many blessings we take for granted but today thank God for each one. Our lives could be so different as I think of those in the Phillipines who have lost loved ones and their homes and have nothing today. For now we live in a free country where we can travel where we want, can say what we want but that could end at anytime, all at the hands of a President who's only desire is to bring down this great country. So today, pray for this country for she is in desperate need of God's help as so many are turning their backs on Him. I am sure you can see how corrupt our government has become.
Ok, as for your remark, "see you got the call" I never said any such thing, that is you. I came back for one purpose, to defend my dear husband from your cruel and thoughtless remarks! We've been married now for 42 years and I've known James since I was 14. We grew up together, have weathered many hardships but yet, we are still together and still have love for one another. FYI, but I am sure you could care less, James is not a well man. He almost died twice in 2008 and I lived on pins and needles everyday for 9 months as I watched him brave surgeries and struggled to recover from a bowel rupture and a major car accident. He was left with permanent injuries from that accident and lives with pain everyday. He needs a cane to walk since he has nerve damage in his foot. Then after all that, the next year, he began having shortness of breath and was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. Each day for me is a gift for I awake each morning wondering if I will find my dear husband alive. I shouldn't be fearful of death but I am, only because I need him for we have no family that lives here, they are a thousand miles away. We have no siblings, no parents, no aunts or uncles, we only have each other. So life goes on for us and today, I am so very grateful to God for his blessings that he has poured out on us this year. I have witnessed answers to prayers this year and it is humbling. God is always there, He has lifted me up when I never thought I could stand on my own. I owe Him everything. So Sir, your snotty, arrogant demeanor is not impressive and it certainly isn't becoming to someone who claims to believe in the, "Only True Church." It is due to members like you who caused me to question Mormonism. As I sit with James later today to have our Thanksgiving meal, I will silently think of you and thank God for you and others like you for I would be among the Walking Dead had I not found Him and learned the truth and accepted Him into my heart. It is my wish for you too and something I will pray for daily. God has a plan for all of us and if it is His will that you come to Him, it will happen.
Enjoy your day today. Be well.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149515]I don't deny that.

Then you believe it? What happened to the telestial kingdom? Are not those ***igned there the persons who are thrust down to hell? (D&C 76:84) And yet Smith has been quoted as saying that if we could see it's glory we would willing die to gain it?


The other people who were sent there, presumably.

How can that be since these are in just as much misery as anyone else. A suffering unknown to mortal men.. Immersed in a Lake of Fire that can't be quenched and yet the comp***ion of death is denied them. And these who have rejected Jesus and his mercy will in their discernible pain minister to others as they are cursing God?


That doesn't mean that each person who goes there will be alone.

Each will have to suffer their own torment. Each will be so consumed by their own eternal pains they will have no thought to the other.. Sorry but under that level of torture no one as a thought for others.. This has been proven in torture. One of the most common results of torture is social impairment (The Psychology of Torture, Stanford University, 2006). This ministration you call for by others in torture is not possible.. Each person will be quite alone..


Prisoners often desire fellowship. But that is not relevant, because the issue is whether those imprisoned in hell will be in solitary confinement or not. You say yes, I say the answer is unknown to us.

This isn't just being held prisoner. This is being tormented day and night is a pain we in mortality can't understand.. That means each cast into that Lake suffers their own hell in private.. there will not be the conscience ability to reach out to others.. I have shown that there is social impairment and that is after torture. How is there any social interaction during the torture? And in the Lake of fire the torture in continuous. Sorry there there is no social interaction at all.. All those who have rejected Christ will suffer eternally in that flame..


Yes.

Did you want to get up and serve others at that time? No, all you wanted to do is suffer alone.. And that was nothing compared to being immersed in fire eternally.


In my case, the sicker I got, the more I wanted someone to be with me.

That isn't the question.. Did you want to rise from your bed and minister to others? How could you you were too sick.. Someone just as sick as you could be laying not 5 feet away and you would not have ministered to them..


Yes, I think you made it up. It may be correct, but it's extrabiblical.

What part is extrabiblical? The idea that there is pain in being cast into God's judgment described as a lake of fire? Maybe it's the idea that no one will willingly enter God's judgment to minister to them? Where in the Bible is it taught that such will be the case? It isn't I that brings an extrabiblical doctrine to the world about the wonderful glories of hell.. That is only found in mormonism and is entirely extrabiblical. It is contained only in the wild imagination of a man, Joseph Smith, not the Holy Bible..


That is good to know. I am glad you reject that part of Calvinism.

Yes, the Bible teaches Jesus died for the sin of all men, not just those who come to Him in repentance. The unforgivable sin is the rejection of His offer of life through His sacrifice.. See it isn't just those that have had knowledge and rejected it. It is also those who reject His sacrifice thinking that when life is over it's over, or those that believe they can do the *** of obtaining their own salvation.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. Any revelation of Him must agree with all He has taught us about Himself in His word or we have invented a God made up in the heart of flesh.

He tells us that He is One Lord.. If anyone teaches that God is three they disagree with His revelation. He tells us that He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting. Of anyone teaches that they know how God became God, they again teach the message of a deceitful heart. The Lord Jesus taught us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as it was obvious He had. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches is that God is invisible. Anyone that teaches that God is a being of flesh and bone again teaches from their own understanding and will not submit to the righteousness of God.

Mormonism teaches all those errors and yet tries to teach the world that they are the most Bible believing people of all Christ believing people.. Maybe they need to change their AofF to reflect how they really believe the Bible. Not even as far as it is translated correctly but only as far as they can force the square peg of mormonism into the clearly round opening of the Bible.. IHS jim

Just as Paul warned, these followers of Joe Smith have another "jesus," and "another gospel and spirit." It's sad, but prophecy is thus fulfilled!

[Apologette]

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. Any revelation of Him must agree with all He has taught us about Himself in His word or we have invented a God made up in the heart of flesh.

He tells us that He is One Lord.. If anyone teaches that God is three they disagree with His revelation. He tells us that He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting. Of anyone teaches that they know how God became God, they again teach the message of a deceitful heart. The Lord Jesus taught us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as it was obvious He had. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches is that God is invisible. Anyone that teaches that God is a being of flesh and bone again teaches from their own understanding and will not submit to the righteousness of God.

Mormonism teaches all those errors and yet tries to teach the world that they are the most Bible believing people of all Christ believing people.. Maybe they need to change their AofF to reflect how they really believe the Bible. Not even as far as it is translated correctly but only as far as they can force the square peg of mormonism into the clearly round opening of the Bible.. IHS jim

You know, Jim, I've known atheists with more integrity than Mormons.