Orwellian Court of Love - Mormon Gestapo! [Archive]

Apologette

11-29-2013, 12:51 PM

"EXCOMMUNICATION AND COURTS OF LOVE

Those who are excommunicated are no longer in "good standing" with the LDS Church. Persons that are excommunicated are no longer able to participate in any Mormon Church function, including praying, teaching or holding any office. The Mormon priesthood is taken away and all "blessings", rights and Temple privileges are taken away. Excommunicated members are not allowed to pay ti th ing however the church does not exempt them from paying ti th ing. Excommunicated members are further ostracized in Mormon Sacrament Meetings where they are forbidden to take the Sacramental offerings - or even speak vocally. Because of this, excommunicated persons are punished further in the eyes of other church members.

Excommunication
Topic: EXCOMMUNICATION AND COURTS OF LOVE -Guid- ↑
The Mormon Church believes that excommunication "Saves the Souls of Transgressors" and to "protect the innocent." Actually, excommunication in the LDS Church is all about protecting the LDS Church. Church members who disobey face Church Courts. The largest section in the Church Handbook Of Instructions is the section on discipline. Long guidelines are set out to ensure that members of the LDS Church obey or they are punished. The Church can and does take away rights of the members to participate in Church activities.

Those who are excommunicated are no longer in "good standing" with the LDS Church. Persons that are excommunicated are no longer able to participate in any Mormon Church function, including praying, teaching or holding any office. The Mormon priesthood is taken away and all "blessings", rights and Temple privileges are taken away. Excommunicated members are not allowed to pay ti th ing however the church does not exempt them from paying ti th ing. Excommunicated members are further ostracized in Mormon Sacrament Meetings where they are forbidden to take the Sacramental offerings - or even speak vocally. Because of this, excommunicated persons are punished further in the eyes of other church members.

From:
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_excommunication.html

So, how does it feel to live spiritually in Germany in the 1940's Mormons?

nrajeffreturns

11-29-2013, 08:03 PM

So, how does it feel to live spiritually in Germany in the 1940's Mormons?
Carm feels like that. When a member of Carm gets excommunicated (suspended or banned for incurring the moderator's ire), he or she is not allowed to speak, and all other rights of Carm membership are declared null and void. I suppose Carm wouldn't refuse donations if the banned member wanted to throw some money into its coffers.....

James Banta

11-30-2013, 11:39 AM

Carm feels like that. When a member of Carm gets excommunicated (suspended or banned for incurring the moderator's ire), he or she is not allowed to speak, and all other rights of Carm membership are declared null and void. I suppose Carm wouldn't refuse donations if the banned member wanted to throw some money into its coffers.....

Donations to CARM don't make them subject to your interpretation of the rules.. You don't like CARM do post there. You don't like it here don't post here.. It's that simple.. CARM, nor Walter Martin are NOT free speech zones.. Break the rules, even if it's only in the mods eyes and you won't be allowed to post.. IHS jim

Apologette

11-30-2013, 03:31 PM

Carm feels like that. When a member of Carm gets excommunicated (suspended or banned for incurring the moderator's ire), he or she is not allowed to speak, and all other rights of Carm membership are declared null and void. I suppose Carm wouldn't refuse donations if the banned member wanted to throw some money into its coffers.....

You should know since you've been banned so frequently. I don't give them any money, Jeff. I think money could be used better elsewhere. You can "adopt" a little child in Africa or India who lives in utter poverty for $30.00 a month which I believe is less than a "super member" pays on CARM. Don't know for sure about that amount. However, feeding a small child is to me more of what Jesus would do! But in any case, "super members" over there get infractions just as much as cultists.

nrajeffreturns

11-30-2013, 06:03 PM

You should know since you've been banned so frequently.
I certainly know, from experience, that Cram isn't a free-speech zone--at least not for pro-LDS people. Yakster can say the crudest stuff some could imagine, and almost never get banned. I wonder why.....

I don't give them any money, Jeff.
Why not? Isn't the Slickter doing God's work by providing a Colosseum for attacking the LDS? Why wouldn't you consider his "ministry" a worthy recipient of your funding so it can keep the attacks going?

I think money could be used better elsewhere. You can "adopt" a little child in Africa or India who lives in utter poverty for $30.00 a month which I believe is less than a "super member" pays on CARM.
I agree that would be a much more Christian thing to do than to help facilitate bigotry and rumor-mongering, but I can see an anti saying "The poor will always be with us. We can worry about them later. Right now the greater need is to make sure there are no Mormons among us."

However, feeding a small child is to me more of what Jesus would do!
I agree so strongly with you on this that I may quote it the next time an anti-LDS person says that attacking the LDS IS what Jesus would do.

But in any case, "super members" over there get infractions just as much as cultists.
Not in the anti-LDS forum, from what I have seen. It's like you're buying yourself some indulgences there, if you become a super Carmer. You can say whatever you want and get away with it. But now you have me wondering about the Yakster and Theo and Brian. I will check their status to see if they are on the "Pre-forgiven for insults and attacks because they paid some $$ " list.

James Banta

12-01-2013, 11:58 AM

I certainly know, from experience, that Cram isn't a free-speech zone--at least not for pro-LDS people. Yakster can say the crudest stuff some could imagine, and almost never get banned. I wonder why.....

Why not? Isn't the Slickter doing God's work by providing a Colosseum for attacking the LDS? Why wouldn't you consider his "ministry" a worthy recipient of your funding so it can keep the attacks going?

I agree that would be a much more Christian thing to do than to help facilitate bigotry and rumor-mongering, but I can see an anti saying "The poor will always be with us. We can worry about them later. Right now the greater need is to make sure there are no Mormons among us."

I agree so strongly with you on this that I may quote it the next time an anti-LDS person says that attacking the LDS IS what Jesus would do.

Not in the anti-LDS forum, from what I have seen. It's like you're buying yourself some indulgences there, if you become a super Carmer. You can say whatever you want and get away with it. But now you have me wondering about the Yakster and Theo and Brian. I will check their status to see if they are on the "Pre-forgiven for insults and attacks because they paid some $$ " list.

leave your arguments started in other forums out of WM.. Stop with the ANIT comments both are against the rules or the addition to those rule added by Jill.. IHS jim

Apologette

12-01-2013, 05:17 PM

I certainly know, from experience, that Cram isn't a free-speech zone--at least not for pro-LDS people. Yakster can say the crudest stuff some could imagine, and almost never get banned. I wonder why.....

Why not? Isn't the Slickter doing God's work by providing a Colosseum for attacking the LDS? Why wouldn't you consider his "ministry" a worthy recipient of your funding so it can keep the attacks going?

I agree that would be a much more Christian thing to do than to help facilitate bigotry and rumor-mongering, but I can see an anti saying "The poor will always be with us. We can worry about them later. Right now the greater need is to make sure there are no Mormons among us."

I agree so strongly with you on this that I may quote it the next time an anti-LDS person says that attacking the LDS IS what Jesus would do.

Not in the anti-LDS forum, from what I have seen. It's like you're buying yourself some indulgences there, if you become a super Carmer. You can say whatever you want and get away with it. But now you have me wondering about the Yakster and Theo and Brian. I will check their status to see if they are on the "Pre-forgiven for insults and attacks because they paid some $$ " list.

Jeff, you don't have to post on CARM. I, too, get frustrated over there - but I post there to get the message out. I don't consider it attacking Mormons, but rather giving the true facts about Mormon history and doctrine. I sincerely believe that Joseph Smith was a very evil man, Jeff. And I think if you could only evaluate him with those Mormon gl***es off, you'd see that as well. I believe you and millions of others have been deceived by a charlatan who was in the whole thing for power, money and sex - just like Manson, just like Jones, just like Koresh. There are a string of false prophets out there, Jeff. You need to make a study of them, and then compare them to Smith. I'm telling you the truth, you have been deceived.

nrajeffreturns

12-02-2013, 05:34 AM

Jeff, you don't have to post on CARM.
Never said I did have to post there. I don't have to take out the trash, either, but I do it and there's no law saying I have to LIKE it. :)

I, too, get frustrated over there - but I post there to get the message out.
See, that's the difference I mentioned--they ALLOW YOU to get YOUR message out. If we try it, we get infractions.

I don't consider it attacking Mormons, but rather giving the true facts about Mormon history and doctrine. I sincerely believe that Joseph Smith was a very evil man, Jeff.
Well, as Russ says: Sincerity of belief doesn't create truth.

And I think if you could only evaluate him with those Mormon gl***es off, you'd see that as well.
If you could take off your Trinitarian or Calvinist gl***es, I wonder what you'd "see" regarding those world views.

I believe you and millions of others have been deceived by a charlatan who was in the whole thing for power, money and sex
I was never in the National Society of Evangelicals. :)

There are a string of false prophets out there, Jeff.
One of my favorites is Roger Williams, who in the 1600s stated:

"There is no regularly-cons***uted church on earth, nor any person authorized to administer any Church ordinance: nor can there be, until new apostles are sent by the great Head of the Church, for whose coming I am seeking...the apostasy ... hath so far corrupted all, that there can be no recovery out of that apostasy until Christ shall send forth new apostles to plant churches anew."

Apologette

12-02-2013, 09:05 AM

leave your arguments started in other forums out of WM.. Stop with the ANIT comments both are against the rules or the addition to those rule added by Jill.. IHS jim

Thank you Jim. Jeff always tries to objectify Christians by calling them "antis." Not only is it rude, and obviously something that Mormons are indoctrinated to think about Christians (that they are "anti" Mormon), it is a psychological technique linked with cultic "stop think." Many cults use slogans or words which induce a "stop think" mechanism in their followers - in this way no information is processed which could harm the cult since the cultist's mind is immediately forced to discard any information from the "enemy." However, we know the subsconscious still stores that information and it can be tapped in the future when some event or phrase, for instance, triggers it!

nrajeffreturns

12-03-2013, 05:25 AM

Thank you Jim. Jeff always tries to objectify Christians by calling them "antis."
Not all Christians--only the teeny, tiny minority of them in the extremist wing of Evangelicalism who are out there attacking the LDS. So the vast majority of Christians are not anti-LDS and I don't objectify them--just the few who have made objects of themselves.

Not only is it rude
Is it rude to call people who are against Communists "anti-Communist"?? Should we ONLY refer to them as "NON-Communist," even if they are actively, stridently out there stirring up opposition to Communism and Communists?

P.U.L.E.E.Z.E.

You have lost this particular debate without even the need for a second round. Find something else to accuse me of--something that might have merit.

and obviously something that Mormons are indoctrinated to think about Christians (that they are "anti" Mormon), it is a psychological technique linked with cultic "stop think."
Actually, isn't it YOU who is trying to STOP people from THINKING that you're against the LDS when the truth is that you obviously are against them? (This is so obvious it should go without saying)

You're saying "Stop using the term anti-LDS to refer to those of us who are activists against the LDS..."

And the common sense response is: WHY? Why shouldn't you be known for the activism you so obviously embrace? And why are you so vehemently against the term, when you should be proud to be known as the people who rail against the LDS?

Imagine a few bullies going out of their way to disparage the nerdy schoolkids, and then when someone notices what's going on, the bullies saying "Nerds are brainwashed into objectifying people who bully them, and into falsely referring to them as bullies."

That's what it looks like is going on with your fake psycho****ysis.

James Banta

12-06-2013, 11:38 AM

[nrajeffreturns;149825]Not all Christians--only the teeny, tiny minority of them in the extremist wing of Evangelicalism who are out there attacking the LDS. So the vast majority of Christians are not anti-LDS and I don't objectify them--just the few who have made objects of themselves.

Here is a news flash for you.. All Christians would call the idea that there are three God in whom we have to do, is heretical and anti biblical. All Christians when told that the Father has a body of flesh and body would that statement unbiblical.. Would they then cross the line you have drawn and be seen as anti-LDS.. Yes they would.. So then anyone that believes the Bible and rejects the nonbiblical is anti-LDS.. Better reevaluate what the "tiny minority" is.. for it is in reality all those who are Bible believing Christians.. That is millions..

Is it rude to call people who are against Communists "anti-Communist"?? Should we ONLY refer to them as "NON-Communist," even if they are actively, stridently out there stirring up opposition to Communism and Communists?

P.U.L.E.E.Z.E.

Are you truly against people because they hold a different idea of what cons***utes the best economic system? You may object to communism to the point of being anti-communism but if you were a Christian being anti any kind of person is flat evil! When you call us Anti LDS aren't you saying that we are against Later Day Saints.. That just isn't true.. Many times are vehemently against what you say but I am very pro jeff.. I hate the idea of losing you to the Lake of Fire.. Instead of allowing you to just walk on toward it I call to you with reasons to get off the wide road of man made doctrine and come with me in following Jesus down the narrow way.. That is in no way anti to anything but error..

You have lost this particular debate without even the need for a second round. Find something else to accuse me of--something that might have merit.
All that I am accusing you of is resorting to hate speech.. Accusing us of hating people when we are here to try to flag you off that wide road with the real Way, Truth, and Life. Everything we say here is to show you that what you have isn't of God but are the teaching of a man.. And how do we know that.. Because the Jesus you teach is not the same Jesus taught in the Bible.. The gospel you teach is another Gospel that Paul didn't teach.. As long as we teach the Bible we teach truth.. As long as we draw our evidence that the LDS church doesn't teach what the Bible does and pull that from LDS sources we teach no lies.. So just how have we lost.. The day we lose is the day you have to stand before God to be judged by your works.. Remember we are taught in God's word that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" . My prayer is that you accept the righteousness of Jesus and give Him your filthy rags and your sins..

Actually, isn't it YOU who is trying to STOP people from THINKING that you're against the LDS when the truth is that you obviously are against them? (This is so obvious it should go without saying)

You're saying "Stop using the term anti-LDS to refer to those of us who are activists against the LDS..."

And the common sense response is: WHY? Why shouldn't you be known for the activism you so obviously embrace? And why are you so vehemently against the term, when you should be proud to be known as the people who rail against the LDS?

Imagine a few bullies going out of their way to disparage the nerdy schoolkids, and then when someone notices what's going on, the bullies saying "Nerds are brainwashed into objectifying people who bully them, and into falsely referring to them as bullies."

That's what it looks like is going on with your fake psycho****ysis.

Why do you demand that we are persecuting the LDS? We are trying to get them to open their eyes and see God's truth in His word.. We hold up the anti biblical statements of your leaders so you can see what the LDS church is teaching.. Tell me what is the traditional Christ? Where did the tradition of that Christ come from? Is it all in the creeds or is it in the Bible where He is called the Mighty God, the everlasting Father? Is it a mere tradition that He refereed to Himself as YHWH the one and only true and living God? Was it a blasphemy for Him to accept the worship of Thomas as he called Him his Lord and his God? That is who the traditional Christ is and that is the Christ that President Hickley denied..

If you must call us anti, ok call us what we are anti of.. The teaching doctrines of the LDS church. Call us anti mormonism for that we are.. We actually teach the Christ who is the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, We teach that Jesus is, was, and will always be YHWH. We worship Him as our Lord and our God just as Thomas did.. We also do our best to change the minds and heart that see Him as anything he isn't or not see Him for all he told us He is..

If we are those like the mobs in Missouri, who didn't even bother to understand who you are or what you taught but hated you for what you are then I could understand being anti LDS or anti mormon.. But it isn't you or any other LDS we hate.. We Hate error and mormonism is filled with it.. IHS jim

Snow Patrol

12-06-2013, 12:02 PM

James, take a moment and look over the ***les on the first page of the Mormonism forum. What two words do you see most? Joseph Smith. Now please tell that is not attacking the person? If you are true to your claims that you are against the doctrines of the LDS Church then ANY individual of the LDS Church should not be a matter of discussion. You should be able to show how the doctrines of the church are wrong based on them being wrong, not because an individual was involved.

Yet, throughout my time here at WM I have seen numerous times where you have railed against individual LDS members. Past Bishops or members. Members fighting in church. Lumping all responses to a Bishop in disguise as completely rejecting him. Your wife has said that not ONE LDS person has ever been nice to her. You have to see at least a glimpse of why we sometimes say anti-LDS.

James Banta

12-07-2013, 09:29 PM

[Snow Patrol;150038]James, take a moment and look over the ***les on the first page of the Mormonism forum. What two words do you see most? Joseph Smith. Now please tell that is not attacking the person? If you are true to your claims that you are against the doctrines of the LDS Church then ANY individual of the LDS Church should not be a matter of discussion. You should be able to show how the doctrines of the church are wrong based on them being wrong, not because an individual was involved.

Unlike any other church, the doctrine of mormonism is the product of one man, That man is Joseph Smith.. If he can be proven to be dishonest in what He says that throws doubt on the whole of the church he created.. Joseph Fielding Smith said, "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground" (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. I, p. 188). Please notice that it is Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ, by which Mormonism stands or falls. Because Joseph Smith is so connected to whether the LDS church is true or false one can't be attacked without attacking the other..

Yet, throughout my time here at WM I have seen numerous times where you have railed against individual LDS members. Past Bishops or members. Members fighting in church. Lumping all responses to a Bishop in disguise as completely rejecting him. Your wife has said that not ONE LDS person has ever been nice to her. You have to see at least a glimpse of why we sometimes say anti-LDS.

I have used the Bible to show why some behavior of the LDS betrays it as a false religion.. We are told in the Bible that:

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

No love for each other, no church! Such a demonstration of LDS lack of love for each other show beyond question that mormonism is not a Christin church much less The Only true Christian Church.. I didn't use any names in showing that it is a general observation of the lack of love I have seen in the LDS church. That is not an attack on any individual it is an attack on the church as a whole.. IHS jim

Apologette

12-08-2013, 12:12 PM

Not all Christians--only the teeny, tiny minority of them in the extremist wing of Evangelicalism who are out there attacking the LDS. So the vast majority of Christians are not anti-LDS and I don't objectify them--just the few who have made objects of themselves.

Is it rude to call people who are against Communists "anti-Communist"?? Should we ONLY refer to them as "NON-Communist," even if they are actively, stridently out there stirring up opposition to Communism and Communists?

P.U.L.E.E.Z.E.

You have lost this particular debate without even the need for a second round. Find something else to accuse me of--something that might have merit.

Actually, isn't it YOU who is trying to STOP people from THINKING that you're against the LDS when the truth is that you obviously are against them? (This is so obvious it should go without saying)

You're saying "Stop using the term anti-LDS to refer to those of us who are activists against the LDS..."

And the common sense response is: WHY? Why shouldn't you be known for the activism you so obviously embrace? And why are you so vehemently against the term, when you should be proud to be known as the people who rail against the LDS?

Imagine a few bullies going out of their way to disparage the nerdy schoolkids, and then when someone notices what's going on, the bullies saying "Nerds are brainwashed into objectifying people who bully them, and into falsely referring to them as bullies."

That's what it looks like is going on with your fake psycho****ysis.

No, I'd invite Mormons to start thinking - instead of allowing the "priesthood file" to think for them. You know Ezra Benson, one of your prophets, said:

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy" (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354).

No wonder you guys have such a hard time thinking independently!

nrajeffreturns

12-08-2013, 08:03 PM

No, I'd invite Mormons to start thinking - instead of allowing the "priesthood file" to think for them.
That "invitation" would have gotten you in big trouble in ancient Israel. Read the story of the golden calf.

You know Ezra Benson, one of your prophets, said:
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy" (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354).

Gee, that would have been good advice to Israel during the time Moses was up on the mountain talking to God face to face. Might have kept them from a lot of death and misery.

No wonder you guys have such a hard time thinking independently!
How did your independent thinking work out for the Israelites who decided it was stoopid to follow their prophet?

Apologette

12-09-2013, 10:15 AM

That "invitation" would have gotten you in big trouble in ancient Israel. Read the story of the golden calf.

Gee, that would have been good advice to Israel during the time Moses was up on the mountain talking to God face to face. Might have kept them from a lot of death and misery.

How did your independent thinking work out for the Israelites who decided it was stoopid to follow their prophet?

Read "1984." By the way, the word is "stu pid," not "stoopid."

nrajeffreturns

12-09-2013, 12:11 PM

Read "1984."
I did read it. It reminds me Cram's anti-LDS forum, where pointing out an attack that was made by an anti-LDS person on a pro-LDS person, is punished for being a "personal attack."

NewSpeak lives.

Apologette

12-09-2013, 12:50 PM

I did read it. It reminds me Cram's anti-LDS forum, where pointing out an attack that was made by an anti-LDS person on a pro-LDS person, is punished for being a "personal attack."

NewSpeak lives.

Have you ever taken any college-level courses in literature? Did you p*** it?

Apologette

12-09-2013, 12:52 PM

nrajeffreturns

12-09-2013, 08:06 PM

Have you ever taken any college-level courses in literature? Did you p*** it?

I took enough English courses to know that "courses" is plural, but "it" is singular. Have you taken any high-school-level English cl***es?

Sir

12-09-2013, 08:28 PM

Read "1984." By the way, the word is "stu pid," not "stoopid."

I didn't know there was a space in that word, apologette.

LOL.....

(She probably doesn't realize how dumb she looks at criticizing Jeff's spelling of that word to get around the filter and her doing the same thing while criticizing him for it. Typical anti-mo duplicity)

Sir

12-09-2013, 08:29 PM

I thought we should get back to the theme of the thread which is "Mormon Courts of Love." How weird is that name folks? Courts of Love - or Examination Time? Snooping Review? Let's castigate those who don't agree with us? Reminds me of what Bonhoeffer had to deal with in Nazi Germany.

Then we wonder why apologette and co. castigate the LDS since we don't agree with them. She must want to be like the Nazis according to her own post.

theway

12-10-2013, 07:11 AM

You should know since you've been banned so frequently. I don't give them any money, Jeff. I think money could be used better elsewhere. You can "adopt" a little child in Africa or India who lives in utter poverty for $30.00 a month which I believe is less than a "super member" pays on CARM. Don't know for sure about that amount. However, feeding a small child is to me more of what Jesus would do!Really???

Then do tell... How many kids in Africa or India do you feed for 30$ a month?

But in any case, "super members" over there get infractions just as much as cultists.LOL....

Think about it CA, just who do you think you are trying to fool here?

James Banta

12-10-2013, 09:15 AM

Really???

Then do tell... How many kids in Africa or India do you feed for 30$ a month?

And if it is only one does that make feeding that child something that isn't worth while? Just where is your comp***ion.. IHS jim

theway

12-10-2013, 11:25 AM

And if it is only one does that make feeding that child something that isn't worth while? Just where is your comp***ion.. IHS jim
I'm just wondering whether CA can put her money where her preaching is? I'll be willing to do such.

Or is she another hypocritical Judas.

nrajeffreturns

12-10-2013, 01:07 PM

I'm just wondering whether CA can put her money where her preaching is? I'll be willing to do such.

Or is she another hypocritical Judas.

Maybe she is like the liberals who are devoted to ending poverty...as long as they can do it by spending OTHER people's money.

James Banta

12-10-2013, 01:13 PM

I'm just wondering whether CA can put her money where her preaching is? I'll be willing to do such.

Or is she another hypocritical Judas.

Maybe she is just a follower of Jesus who commanded us to not allow her left hand to know what out right hand is doing in respect to her alms (Matthew 6:3).. IHS jim

theway

12-10-2013, 01:16 PM

Maybe she is just a follower of Jesus who commanded us to not allow her left hand to know what out right hand is doing in respect to her alms (Matthew 6:3).. IHS jim
Or maybe.... Just maybe..... She is too embarr***ed to admit that she is all speeches and preaching but there is no substance to anything she says.

James Banta

12-10-2013, 01:18 PM

Maybe she is like the liberals who are devoted to ending poverty...as long as they can do it by spending OTHER people's money.

I am wondering why you would say that. Has she ever asked you to give money to the poor in her name? Maybe you thought is would be nice to try to plant evil thoughts toward another poster in the minds of those who may read the attacks you have invented over nothing but a maybe? IHS jim

James Banta

12-10-2013, 01:21 PM

I didn't know there was a space in that word, apologette.

LOL.....

(She probably doesn't realize how dumb she looks at criticizing Jeff's spelling of that word to get around the filter and her doing the same thing while criticizing him for it. Typical anti-mo duplicity)

Because of the auto editing done on the site.. I see nothing wrong with either way around it as long as you try not to address it to a person.. Those that have done so have already be asked to take some time off.. IHS jim

James Banta

12-10-2013, 01:22 PM

Or maybe.... Just maybe..... She is too embarr***ed to admit that she is all speeches and preaching but there is no substance to anything she says.

Nope couldn't be that I have read most of her post and most are quite substantive.. IHS jim

theway

12-10-2013, 01:33 PM

Nope couldn't be that I have read most of her post and most are quite substantive.. IHS jim
No..... That's not it....

James Banta

12-10-2013, 01:35 PM

Then we wonder why apologette and co. castigate the LDS since we don't agree with them. She must want to be like the Nazis according to her own post.

Where is our force?, the guns, the gas chambers, the ovens? Just because we question whether mormonism is Christian, that Smith told the truth in his denial of polygamy, or that the doctrines he invented have any Biblical authority, doesn't mean we can punish you because our criticisms are based in truth.. All we can do is continue to criticize them for a lack of truth.. Without the punishment there is no castigation, it is merely criticism.. Castigation is far more sever than mere criticism. The mormon courts punish, even it is only with action taken against a person's membership. That is Castigation. I don't claim this form of punishment was used against me. I see it as a mutual decision. They didn't want me any more and I surely didn't want them. I have never heard Apologette teach that weapons should be used against the LDS. I have never seen her threaten your freedom, or think up ways to fine you because of your religious views. All I have seen is some criticism. IHS jim

James Banta

12-10-2013, 01:51 PM

No..... That's not it....

This is just the kind of response you are famous for.. A "NOPE" response without adding any reason.. I at least said I found her post to be substantive.. And you come back with your famous NOPE.. IHS jim

Apologette

12-10-2013, 01:51 PM

Where is our force?, the guns, the gas chambers, the ovens? Just because we question whether mormonism is Christian, that Smith told the truth in his denial of polygamy, or that the doctrines he invented have any Biblical authority, doesn't mean we can punish you because our criticisms are based in truth.. All we can do is continue to criticize them for a lack of truth.. Without the punishment there is no castigation, it is merely criticism.. Castigation is far more sever than mere criticism. The mormon courts punish, even it is only with action taken against a person's membership. That is Castigation. I don't claim this form of punishment was used against me. I see it as a mutual decision. They didn't want me any more and I surely didn't want them. I have never heard Apologette teach that weapons should be used against the LDS. I have never seen her threaten your freedom, or think up ways to fine you because of your religious views. All I have seen is some criticism. IHS jim

Sometimes we have to believe that Mormons are either delusional or outright liars. Whatever it is that possesses and motivates them, it is not the truth.

The way, those who are ***ociated with the Mormon cult, which spawned the evil bunch who murdered so many unarmed men, women and children at Mountain Meadows might want to refrain from attacking others!

Apologette

12-10-2013, 01:53 PM

This is just the kind of response you are famous for.. A "NOPE" response without adding any reason.. I at least said I found her post to be substantive.. And you come back with your famous NOPE.. IHS jim

This is all they have, Jim. Outright denial. This is why they can remain in a cult - just as Jim Jones' followers did as they lined up for the Kool Aid!

Sir

12-10-2013, 03:44 PM

Because of the auto editing done on the site.. I see nothing wrong with either way around it as long as you try not to address it to a person..

Uh, yes, I know, Jim. :rolleyes:

Those that have done so have already be asked to take some time off.. IHS jim

Ahhhhhh, I was wondering why your wife hasn't been posting today. You must've moderated her and she listened. Good ***, junior forum-moderator buddy!

James Banta

12-10-2013, 04:02 PM

Uh, yes, I know, Jim. :rolleyes:

Ahhhhhh, I was wondering why your wife hasn't been posting today. You must've moderated her and she listened. Good ***, junior forum-moderator buddy!

You heard me I asked some to take some time off... IHS jim

theway

12-10-2013, 04:56 PM

This is all they have, Jim. Outright denial. This is why they can remain in a cult - just as Jim Jones' followers did as they lined up for the Kool Aid!that's because the proof is in the pudding CA.

Put up or shut up...

I already told you that I am willing to put my beliefs into practice.... Are you???

Or are you just all hypocritical talk?

BigJulie

12-10-2013, 05:05 PM

This is all they have, Jim. Outright denial. This is why they can remain in a cult - just as Jim Jones' followers did as they lined up for the Kool Aid!

Just for everyone out there reading---just so you know....we don't have "koolaid" episodes in the LDS faith.

Here is what one PEW research result found:

http://thevisualcommunicationguy.com/2013/11/12/religious-health-o-meter-infographic/

If you look, Mormons tend to do have a good education, are married, get answers to their prayers, attend church. Overall, we are a pretty happy group.

Billyray

12-10-2013, 05:54 PM

I already told you that I am willing to put my beliefs into practice....
Of course you put your beliefs into practice because that is what you believe. But those beliefs--belief in false gods--will not lead you to heaven.

Billyray

12-10-2013, 05:55 PM

Just for everyone out there reading---just so you know....we don't have "koolaid" episodes in the LDS faith.

But you follow a false prophet who teaches you about false gods and a false gospel. How is this any different?

Billyray

12-10-2013, 05:58 PM

Mormons tend to do have a good education, are married, get answers to their prayers, attend church. Overall, we are a pretty happy group.
So feeling good is how you define truth. Then every person who feels good has the truth which would include people of all sorts of false religions.

BigJulie

12-10-2013, 05:59 PM

So feeling good is how you define truth. Then every person who feels good has the truth which would include people of all sorts of false religions.

Happiness and joy is definitely the fruits of living by truth.

Billyray

12-10-2013, 06:00 PM

Happiness and joy is definitely the fruits of living by truth.
So people who are happy that belong to false religions have the truth?

BigJulie

12-10-2013, 06:02 PM

So people who are happy that belong to false religions have the truth?

Any time anyone lives by any true principle, they will be happy based on living that principle--such as honesty--regardless of what religion they belong to. The more truth one has, if they live by it, they will experience more happiness.

Billyray

12-10-2013, 06:50 PM

Any time anyone lives by any true principle, they will be happy based on living that principle--such as honesty--regardless of what religion they belong to. The more truth one has, if they live by it, they will experience more happiness.
But people who believe in false faiths believe in many false principles does't this mean that they will be unhappy by your definition?

BigJulie

12-10-2013, 07:01 PM

But people who believe in false faiths believe in many false principles does't this mean that they will be unhappy by your definition?

Yes, a false prophet would be someone who teaches false principles and those things would lead to unhappiness.

An example is someone who teaches someone that they do not have to work hard---that God will give them everything without work. The person, thereby, learns laziness which brings about misery. A child who thinks that their parents will give them everything and that they don't have to work soon finds that their life does not have a lot of meaning or satisfaction. The truth sets us free from such misery.

nrajeffreturns

12-10-2013, 09:08 PM

Sometimes we have to believe that Mormons are either delusional or outright liars.
Yes, you have to believe that in order for your programming to run smoothly.

nrajeffreturns

12-10-2013, 09:16 PM

I am wondering why you would say that.
I would say that to anyone who criticizes charity from LDS when the accuser herself has provided no evidence of her superior philanthropy. And even if it were the case that she and/or her church has given more to the poor, it is kinda tacky or no-cl*** to go around criticizing others and putting them down.

theway

12-11-2013, 07:07 AM

I would say that to anyone who criticizes charity from LDS when the accuser herself has provided no evidence of her superior philanthropy. And even if it were the case that she and/or her church has given more to the poor, it is kinda tacky or no-cl*** to go around criticizing others and putting them down.
Oh... I'll go further than that. I'm willing to bet she gives nothing to anybody in Africa or India, but has the nerve to criticize those who do.

Apologette

12-11-2013, 12:01 PM

Oh... I'll go further than that. I'm willing to bet she gives nothing to anybody in Africa or India, but has the nerve to criticize those who do.
My husband and I support Christian missionaries - in Africa/Asia/Polynesia - wherever there is a need through our offerings at Church. Calvary Chapels support many good missionary outreaches. These Christian missionaries provide outreach to the little children who need clothing, food and education. And most of all, the Gospel. My own daughter and her husband, and our grranddauther, are missionaries to Africa! My grandson has done mission work in Ghana. Incredible that Mormons reduce themselves to looking like s t u p i d fools!

Sir

12-11-2013, 12:29 PM

nrajeffreturns

12-11-2013, 02:31 PM

Lots of bragging about trumpeting about her good works going on.

Ouch! No fair holding them up to the scrutiny of their own standards and rhetoric!

theway

12-11-2013, 02:44 PM

My husband and I support Christian missionaries - in Africa/Asia/Polynesia - wherever there is a need through our offerings at Church. Calvary Chapels support many good missionary outreaches. These Christian missionaries provide outreach to the little children who need clothing, food and education. And most of all, the Gospel. My own daughter and her husband, and our grranddauther, are missionaries to Africa! My grandson has done mission work in Ghana. Incredible that Mormons reduce themselves to looking like s t u p i d fools!Really... That's your answer.... "I gave at the office"
How much does this amount to over a year's period? and how many people are in your church to divide this amount against?

I don't filter my money through anybody which takes a cut, nor do I give to any Charity that plans on Evangelizing to them. That is the first question I asked them before we (my wife and I) committed to monthly support for 10 kids and 3 schools.
All the people who run the Charity, run it free of charge out of their own pocket and I found out afterwards that they were all Mormon, but insisted that no missionaries will be involved. You see CA... I don't want my support to be dependent upon whether they accept the gospel or not, nor do I want my money to go for the support of the people helping them.
Nor do I feel that throwing a few bucks a year into a basket so that I can claim I am supporting a vast Charity, very truthful.

RealFakeHair

12-11-2013, 02:47 PM

Really... That's your answer.... "I gave at the office"
How much does this amount to over a year's period? and how many people are in your church to divide this amount against?

I don't filter my money through anybody which takes a cut, nor do I give to any Charity that plans on Evangelizing to them. That is the first question I asked them before we (my wife and I) committed to monthly support for 10 kids and 3 schools.
All the people who run the Charity, run it free of charge out of their own pocket and I found out afterwards that they were all Mormon, but insisted that no missionaries will be involved. You see CA... I don't want my support to be dependent upon whether they accept the gospel or not, nor do I want my money to go for the support of the people helping them.
Nor do I feel that throwing a few bucks a year into a basket so that I can claim I am supporting a vast Charity, very truthful.

I don't think it is a good idea to start bragin on one's charity. Remember what happened to the rich couple?
The Holy Bible says not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doin.

theway

12-11-2013, 03:30 PM

I don't think it is a good idea to start bragin on one's charity. Remember what happened to the rich couple?
The Holy Bible says not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doin.
The whole point to bragging is that people can give you accolades for the work you do. Unlike CA, I am careful not to post anything which would point to my real name or who I am. Therefore bragging would be pointless.

I posted what I did to prove a point free from being accused of bragging because you will never know who I am. The downside is that you will never know whether I am even telling the truth.:D

But the reason people like you will dismiss me by accusing me of bragging, is because it keeps you from having to deal with the truth about yourself.

RealFakeHair

12-11-2013, 03:38 PM

The whole point to bragging is that people can give you accolades for the work you do. Unlike CA, I am careful not to post anything which would point to my real name or who I am.

I posted what I did to prove a point free from being accused of bragging because you will never know who I am. The downside is that you will never know whetherbI am even telling the truth.:D

But the reason people like you will accuse me is because it keeps you from having to deal with the truth about yourself.

What! You're not Bill Crosby? Oh and by the way are you uncomfortable with:
O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought before the throne of God (Book of Mormon, Jacob 3:8).
I've notice you are staying away from answering.

Apologette

12-11-2013, 03:51 PM

Really... That's your answer.... "I gave at the office"
How much does this amount to over a year's period? and how many people are in your church to divide this amount against?

I don't filter my money through anybody which takes a cut, nor do I give to any Charity that plans on Evangelizing to them. That is the first question I asked them before we (my wife and I) committed to monthly support for 10 kids and 3 schools.
All the people who run the Charity, run it free of charge out of their own pocket and I found out afterwards that they were all Mormon, but insisted that no missionaries will be involved. You see CA... I don't want my support to be dependent upon whether they accept the gospel or not, nor do I want my money to go for the support of the people helping them.
Nor do I feel that throwing a few bucks a year into a basket so that I can claim I am supporting a vast Charity, very truthful.

You have no idea of our charitable contributions, nor will I lower myself to answer your asinine question. Grow up. We don't have "baskets" at Calvary Chapels. And we do pool our money to serve different missionaries. Tell us, do you give to separate missionaries? And by the way, I don't go tooting a horn in front of what my husband and I do in terms of charity and good works as YOU do. But then, as a Mormon, you wouldn't understand that. Mormonism breeds pridefulness - which goes before the fall. And don't you have foster kids - and don't you get paid to care for them?

Apologette

12-11-2013, 03:53 PM

What! You're not Bill Crosby? Oh and by the way are you uncomfortable with:
O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought before the throne of God (Book of Mormon, Jacob 3:8).
I've notice you are staying away from answering.

Because he's in a mixed marriage - and he doesn't have the for t i t ude to get out of a cult which teaches that the darker skin of his wife is a sign of sin, and that only the "white and delightsome" Mormons are the spiritually elite.

Imagine being in a mixed marriage and having to sustain Brigham Young as a true prophet - Brigham who said:

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be.

NEVERtheway can find more choice remarks by Young and others here: http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3203-Why-African-Americans-Should-Stay-Away-From-Mormonism

Snow Patrol

12-11-2013, 03:59 PM

And don't you have foster kids - and don't you get paid to care for them?

I wonder, do you have any experience in dealing with foster kids and reimbursement from the state?

RealFakeHair

12-11-2013, 04:10 PM

Because he's in a mixed marriage - and he doesn't have the for t i t ude to get out of a cult which teaches that the darker skin of his wife is a sign of sin, and that only the "white and delightsome" Mormons are the spiritually elite.

Imagine being in a mixed marriage and having to sustain Brigham Young as a true prophet - Brigham who said:

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be.

NEVERtheway can find more choice remarks by Young and others here: http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3203-Why-African-Americans-Should-Stay-Away-From-Mormonism

I am in a mixed marrage too. I am all mixed up so my wife tells me.
I don't care about the color of his or his wife's skin, my skin is pretty wrinkle and bumpy. The sun will do that to you.
I am trying to understand his mindset. When I have time I will tell the story a the beautiful black woman who was married, but the Black mormon man still tried to get her to be spiritually married to him.

theway

12-11-2013, 04:19 PM

Apologette

12-11-2013, 04:24 PM

I am in a mixed marrage too. I am all mixed up so my wife tells me.
I don't care about the color of his or his wife's skin, my skin is pretty wrinkle and bumpy. The sun will do that to you.
I am trying to understand his mindset. When I have time I will tell the story a the beautiful black woman who was married, but the Black mormon man still tried to get her to be spiritually married to him.

If I was married to a black, and saw what Brigham Young had said about "death on the spot" being the penalty for "mixing one's seed" with blacks, I'd stay as far away as I could from such a group. Who knows, maybe that black ACLU lawyer, Leo, was right - the one on Hannity who said that Utah and Idaho practice apartheid! With a cult that recognizes Young as a prophet, can he be so far off the mark?

Apologette

12-11-2013, 04:26 PM

I wonder, do you have any experience in dealing with foster kids and reimbursement from the state?

As a caseworker I was familiar with the reimbursements foster parents receive. And states very in what they pay. Why, do you receive foster care reimbursements?

nrajeffreturns

12-11-2013, 04:45 PM

What I would like to know is whether Carm has been paying people to post against the LDS in the anti-LDS forum. Every time I asked that question, it got me punished for asking. And I never received an answer.

BigJulie

12-11-2013, 05:18 PM

If I was married to a black, and saw what Brigham Young had said about "death on the spot" being the penalty for "mixing one's seed" with blacks, I'd stay as far away as I could from such a group. Who knows, maybe that black ACLU lawyer, Leo, was right - the one on Hannity who said that Utah and Idaho practice apartheid! With a cult that recognizes Young as a prophet, can he be so far off the mark?

Well, luckily the whole world is NOT you and therefore does not think like you and therefore can open their minds to broader insights into what the gospel is and what it means to be Mormon.

Sir

12-11-2013, 05:44 PM

As a caseworker I was familiar with the reimbursements foster parents receive. And states very in what they pay. Why, do you receive foster care reimbursements?

Uh oh....apologette is trying to find out personal information. It's a good thing she doesn't cry about that on these forums.

Apologette

12-11-2013, 06:03 PM

Well, luckily the whole world is NOT you and therefore does not think like you and therefore can open their minds to broader insights into what the gospel is and what it means to be Mormon.

Do you believe that Brigham Young was a true prophet, and was his "death on the spot" for mixing one's seed with a black a true statement?

Snow Patrol

12-11-2013, 08:14 PM

As a caseworker I was familiar with the reimbursements foster parents receive. And states very in what they pay. Why, do you receive foster care reimbursements?

Not anymore I don't. What were you trying to imply in your previous post? Hopefully it wasn't how people can financially benefit by providing foster care services.

nrajeffreturns

12-12-2013, 06:13 AM

I still wonder whether Carm has had a system of 'financially benefiting' antis for each post they made against the LDS. When I would ask Russ about it, he would become suspiciously evasive.

theway

12-12-2013, 07:30 AM

Y And don't you have foster kids - and don't you get paid to care for them?

I'm sorry, but I did not see this first time around because I rarely read past the first line of any of your posts.
It took me a few minutes to draw the connection you were trying to make because I don't consider Foster Parenting a Charity.

This is one of the reasons I have a hard time believing you ever worked in social services because it will almost always states within the first page of your Foster Parent handbook that "YOU AS FOSTER PARENTS, ARE NOT PAID" in fact the checks come in the kid's name. Foster Parents are even required to have a full time *** while they are Foster Parents because even the State realizes that in order to take care of the children the Foster Parents will have to spend more out of their own pocket, then the State covers.
Foster parents are given reimbursements a month later, because it is supposed to be for MONEY ALREADY SPENT BY THE FOSTER PARENT.

Me and my wife are State Advocates for the Foster Parenting program (and no we do not get any money for that) we give cl***es and speak at conventions for people who want to become Foster Parents. (If you were a Social Worker in our State you probably sat in on one) The first thing we tell them is that if you think that you will make money Foster Parenting, or if you even think that the State will cover the kids expenses, then you need to leave now.
Two weeks ago during a question and answer period for perspective Foster Parents one man stood up and asked why I was trying to talk them out of being Foster Parents if at the same time we were saying that we desperately needed more Foster Parents? I told him that it was because, if I was able to to talk them out of it, then they were not ready to become Foster Parents. Foster Parents are only there to provide AN EXAMPLE OF A "TEMPORARY" LOVING HOME ENVIRONMENT that they an take back with them when they are reunited with their parents. The catch 22 with that is that in order to give them a loving home environment, you have to love the kids no matter what. It also means that you will have to spend far more than the state reimburses you for. In fact the dental work for the last two kids we had cost more than the State gave us in a year, because they would only pay to have the teeth pulled, not fixed.
We even get half of what we should because we opted to go under Guardianship for all of them simply because WE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

Right now we still have 8 kids in our home even though 4 of them are over 18 and "aged out" This means we get no money from the state at all to help them. Yet we pay for their living expenses while they go to college (which we also pay for out of our pocket)

You are what is wrong with the program, if indeed you were ever a Social Worker?

RealFakeHair

12-12-2013, 08:41 AM

What does that have to do with being black?

Well I hope you were joking, and if not maybe a history lesson needs to be in your future?

theway

12-12-2013, 09:14 AM

Well I hope you were joking, and if not maybe a history lesson needs to be in your future?

Not joking...

I asked what any scripture in the Book of Mormon has to do with being Black?

Think about it for a second outside of the AntiMormon blinders, and then answer.

RealFakeHair

12-12-2013, 10:14 AM

Not joking...

I asked what any scripture in the Book of Mormon has to do with being Black?

Think about it for a second outside of the AntiMormon blinders, and then answer.

Okay, lets go down the history of Eugenic. Sir Francis Galton introduced it in the year 1880. Eugenic, meaing (well born).
Check out the relationship between Joseph F Smith and eugenic, with an added touch of Polygamy.
Check out the early LDSinc. Idea of the American Indian, and their adoption. Brigham Youngs at***ude towards Blacks, and his treatment of the American Indian. Joseph Smith jr. accepted the genealogy of the Negro curse as the sons of Ham.
The over all question is why did the LDSinc. Change White and delightsome to pure and delightsome?

theway

12-13-2013, 06:49 AM

Okay, lets go down the history of Eugenic. Sir Francis Galton introduced it in the year 1880. Eugenic, meaing (well born).
Check out the relationship between Joseph F Smith and eugenic, with an added touch of Polygamy.
Check out the early LDSinc. Idea of the American Indian, and their adoption. Brigham Youngs at***ude towards Blacks, and his treatment of the American Indian. Joseph Smith jr. accepted the genealogy of the Negro curse as the sons of Ham.
The over all question is why did the LDSinc. Change White and delightsome to pure and delightsome?
You are the one who brought up the allegation, but I can not get you to explain what you are talking about, or give an example of the BOM being racist against Blacks.
If you don't plan on answering it, just let me know so that we can stop wasting my time.

I'm going to ask this question again for the forth and final time now....

What does anything in the Book of Mormon have to do with Blacks?

Apologette

12-13-2013, 09:05 AM

You are the one who brought up the allegation, but I can not get you to explain what you are talking about, or give an example of the BOM being racist against Blacks.
If you don't plan on answering it, just let me know so that we can stop wasting my time.

I'm going to ask this question again for the forth and final time now....

What does anything in the Book of Mormon have to do with Blacks?

So, the Book of Mormon doesn't equate the fact that the Lamanite's skin turned dark as a result of their sinfulness? How obtuse can you get NOTtheway? Dark skin is equated with sinfulness - and other Mormon "revelations" say blacks are children of Cain, and that their dark skin is the "mark of Cain, and the result of sin and lack of valiance in premortal life. You are simply denying facts to soothe yourself. Get out of the kind of cult that condemns your own family.

Billyray

12-13-2013, 05:26 PM

Yes, a false prophet would be someone who teaches false principles and those things would lead to unhappiness.

But there are many people who believe in many false principles who are happy. How can that be given what you have said?

BigJulie

12-13-2013, 05:35 PM

But there are many people who believe in many false principles who are happy. How can that be given what you have said?

Actually, that is not true. You do something that is untrue and it leads to unhappiness. So, someone who lies---it will lead to unhappiness. Someone who steals, it will lead to unhappiness.

Any amount of happiness a person has is directly due to the amount of truth they live by. Wickedness never was happiness.

Billyray

12-13-2013, 05:55 PM

Actually, that is not true. You do something that is untrue and it leads to unhappiness. So, someone who lies---it will lead to unhappiness. Someone who steals, it will lead to unhappiness.

But how do you explain all of the people who follow false teachers/teachings and yet are happy?

BigJulie

12-13-2013, 05:57 PM

But how do you explain all of the people who follow false teachers/teachings and yet are happy?

If they live by some truth, they will find happiness in the truth the are living. Their sins (or false teachings they live by) will bring the unhappiness.

You can tell the degree of truth a person lives by by how happy they are. A person who lies or steals or cheats will experience misery--in this life--eventually. And in my experience, it takes a very short time for this to occur.

Billyray

12-13-2013, 06:29 PM

If they live by some truth, they will find happiness in the truth the are living. Their sins (or false teachings they live by) will bring the unhappiness.

You can tell the degree of truth a person lives by by how happy they are.
What you say is false. Lots of people believe in all sorts of lies yet they are happy.

BigJulie

12-13-2013, 06:33 PM

What you say is false. Lots of people believe in all sorts of lies yet they are happy.

No, people who sin are not happy. I am sure you have seen this as well in your life. They may experience some type of pleasure for a while, but sins catch up with people. For example, liars. It doesn't take too long before no one wants to do business with them or believe what they are saying. They begin to experience misery.

Billyray

12-13-2013, 06:45 PM

No, people who sin are not happy.
Sure they are happy--especially those who think that they are following truth even though it is a lie.

Billyray

12-13-2013, 06:47 PM

No, people who sin are not happy.
What is sin to you is not sin to others. Right? Since they have differing beliefs.

BigJulie

12-13-2013, 06:50 PM

Sure they are happy--especially those who think that they are following truth even though it is a lie.

No, you just think that because you have a faulty belief system. Sin takes us away from God and God is all that is good. As a result, anything that brings us closer to God makes us happy. Anything that takes us away from God makes us less happy.

Those who find happiness are those who live by truth--which all comes from God---whether people recognize it or not. So, someone who does not believe in God, but are honest--will have a measure of happiness for living that truth. Their honesty (a truth which comes from God) will help them to live happier lives. The more truth one has and the more they live by it, the happier they will be still. That is why, in order to truly be happy, one has to understand and accept Jesus Christ as their redeemer--as one of the truths that makes one happy is understanding the ability to repent.

On the other hand, people who state that they believe in God, but do not live by truth, will suffer the misery of their sinful decisions. That is why someone can believe in God, but if they go against the truths they know, they will be unhappy. They will still suffer until they repent and change their wicked ways.

I think the easiest example of this is someone who is addicted to anything. In that case, the flesh takes over and the person, through sin, removes themselves from God. Misery follows.

Show me someone who claims they are happy, but lives a life full of sin and I will show you someone who deep down does not like themselves. I have seen it many times.

Billyray

12-13-2013, 06:52 PM

No, you just think that because you have a faulty belief system.
So what I personally believe is the basis for the happiness of millions of other people in the world with differing belief systems?

Apologette

12-13-2013, 07:06 PM

Actually, that is not true. You do something that is untrue and it leads to unhappiness. So, someone who lies---it will lead to unhappiness. Someone who steals, it will lead to unhappiness.

Any amount of happiness a person has is directly due to the amount of truth they live by. Wickedness never was happiness.
Oh, so you believe in Karma?

theway

12-13-2013, 08:02 PM

So, the Book of Mormon doesn't equate the fact that the Lamanite's skin turned dark as a result of their sinfulness? How obtuse can you get NOTtheway? Dark skin is equated with sinfulness - and other Mormon "revelations" say blacks are children of Cain, and that their dark skin is the "mark of Cain, and the result of sin and lack of valiance in premortal life. You are simply denying facts to soothe yourself. Get out of the kind of cult that condemns your own family.
I think someone needs to point out to you the obvious...

IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR ANYONE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON TO BE TALKING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE,
This is because NO Black people were in the Americas during the time of the Book of Mormon, so they would not even know what a Black person looked like.

The reference to Black and White in the Book of Mormon is exactly as Joseph Smith said the ****ogy represented....
Pureness and filthiness.

BigJulie

12-14-2013, 12:29 AM

Oh, so you believe in Karma?

The idea that what you reap, so shall you sow? That type of thinking?

Billyray

12-14-2013, 01:06 AM

On the other hand, people who state that they believe in God, but do not live by truth, will suffer the misery of their sinful decisions. That is why someone can believe in God, but if they go against the truths they know, they will be unhappy. They will still suffer until they repent and change their wicked ways.
The point that seems to be going right over your head is the fact that those who follow false religions believe that what they are doing IS good by following what their false teachers are teaching. For example LDS feel that they are following their gods yet in reality they are leading sinful lives because they are following after strange gods. In the pursuit of following false gods and false belief systems--many find happiness--BUT they are not following the truth. The same can be said for many false religions all over the world. So this shows the silliness of your argument that "happiness" validates truthfulness. In reality God's word validates truthfulness--something LDS such as yourself seem to have a hard time fully grasping.

BigJulie

12-14-2013, 01:18 AM

The point that seems to be going right over your head is the fact that those who follow false religions believe that what they are doing IS good by following what their false teachers are teaching. For example LDS feel that they are following their gods yet in reality they are leading sinful lives because they are following after strange gods. In the pursuit of following false gods and false belief systems--many find happiness--BUT they are not following the truth. The same can be said for many false religions all over the world. So this shows the silliness of your argument that "happiness" validates truthfulness. In reality God's word validates truthfulness--something LDS such as yourself seem to have a hard time fully grasping.

No, this does not go right over my head because you and I see this differently.

You believe that people have to believe as you believe or you believe that they are going to hell. You then appoint yourself judge and jury to make sure people know this (at least that is how it comes across to me.)

That is very different than the LDS beliefs. We do not use "religion" to determine who will go to heaven or who will go to hell. We believe that God gives to those what he may. He decides. It is like the parable of the talents. Then, he judges them based on what He gave them and what they do with it. So, to me---someone isn't going to go to hell because they don't believe what I do---because I do not know what God or the Spirit has shared with them. What I do believe is that everyone is given the "light of Christ"---or the ability to know the Spirit based on an internal understanding of what is right and wrong. So, a person can know telling the truth is right and lying is wrong, regardless of what religion they believe in.

In the end, all those who are saved will believe in Christ---but not all will have the chance to learn of Christ in this life. So, God allows for them to be taught even in the next life. But ultimately, they will be judged according to what they knew and what they did with it in this life.

This is why we have the scriptures that teach us:

1Pe 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

And this one:

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.