Why African Americans Should Stay Away From Mormonism

[Apologette]

Because of Mormonism's racist past, they are seeking to convert African Americans so that they can prove they are not racist! They even use blacks in their ads, "I'm a Mormon." They think this will counter their past racism! I live among Mormons here in the southwest, and in our area there is not one Mormon who is black, and few who are Hispanic. In fact, I've had Hispanics complain to me about prejudice against them in totally Mormon areas! I believe it because down deep Mormons still believe what their own prophets have taught them in the past:

Brigham Young, second Mormon "prophet," (or profit, might be better):

You see some cl***es of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servants of servants;" and they will be until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree (Journal of Discourses, 7:290; emphasis added)

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be.

The third Mormon prophet, John Taylor supported Young's position:

after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it p*** through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God. . . . (ibid., 23:304; emphasis added).

Here's what the forth Mormon prophet Willie Woodruff had to say about blacks:

What was that mark? It was a mark of blackness. That mark rested upon Cain, and descended upon his posterity from that time until the present. To day there are millions of the descendants of Cain, through the lineage of Ham, in the world, and that mark of darkness still rest upon them (Millennial Star, 51:339; emphasis added).

The tenth "prophet" of the Mormon cult kept up the barrage of racist rhetoric:

Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was place upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning… we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our Negro brethren, for they are our brethren--children of God---notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness.

One of their "apostles," McConkie was racist enough to say this about African Americans: Mormonism teaches: "The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them. Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned. . . . "

In 1978 the cult had to reverse itself, and allow blacks to be Mormon priests! This was because their missionary army had converted a lot of native Brazilians who were of mixed heritage; furthermore, many black football players in American colleges were boycotting the BYU Cougars (not that they are much of a team), and the prophet, "Kimball," had a "revelation" that blacks could now receive their super duper priesthood ordinations - and that's when they began their campaign to enlist blacks in the cult!

Folks, if you are looking in here and are either black or of a darker skin hue, know that the Mormons even today see a darker skin as a sign of sin (mark of Cain). They believe that the very best "spirits" are born into Mormon families - and their offspring's "white and delightsome" features attest to their spiritual superiority! In fact, Mormons who so often denounce the Calvinist view of predestination teach "foreordination," which is the same thing:

"Abraham was told that he was included among the valiant spirits and was therefore chosen or foreordained before his birth to be a leader in God's kingdom on earth (Abr. 3:22-23). The Lord likewise informed Jeremiah, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and…I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jer. 1:5). Alma 2 taught that priests belonging to a "holy order" were foreordained "according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works" (Alma 13:1, 3). The Prophet Joseph Smith concluded that "every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world was ordained to that very purpose in the Grand Council of heaven before this world was" (TPJS, p. 365). And in addition to these foreordinations to priesthood callings, many spirits may have been foreordained to specific nations and generations, which Paul characterized as the "bounds of habitation" (Acts 17:26), as well as to families and to varied ***ignments, work, or missions on earth.

While each of these selections is ultimately based on the omniscience and foreknowledge of God, several factors may influence one's earthly circumstances. Foreordination comes as a blessing or reward for premortal righteousness and valiant commitment to Jesus Christ. Birth into the house of Israel (my note, Mormons think they are the "house of Israel") and heirship to all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are often seen as the birthright of dedicated souls (see Eph. 1:4-5; Rom. 9:4). These rights and blessings may still be obtained by any and all who elect to receive them, whether in this life or the next. People sooner or later will manifest, as Elder B. H. Roberts, of the Seventy, taught, "the strength of that intelligence and nobility to which their spirits had attained in the heavenly kingdom before they took bodies upon earth" (T. Madsen, Defender of the Faith [Salt Lake City, 1980], p. 2). The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that men and women may come to God through righteousness and diligence and thus become numbered with those who are "sons [and daughters] of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God" (D&C 84:34).

Basically what the Mormons are saying there is that the best spirits are foreordained to be Mormons. This is based on their belief in "premortal existence," or that spirits are rewarded according to their performance prior to coming to planet earth, the best being destined to be ordained "priests" in the Mormon cult! Guess the Mormons better change their view of Calvin!

See these sites for confirmation of quotes: http://www.christiandefense.org/mor_black.htm; http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/premortal/foreordination_eom.htm; http://www.mrm.org/white-and-delightsome

So, if your skin is darker than your "white and delightsome" Mormon neighbor, you might want to review racism as incorporated into Mormon history and doctrine. Remember, Mormons are trying to enlist blacks into their cult in order to rectify their racist past! Don't be used!

[RealFakeHair]

Funny thing, I met a black man who was a memeber of the KKK, he even showed me his card. So just as there can be blacks in the LDSinc. So they can be members of the KKK. After all don't everyone want to be white and delightsome?

[Apologette]

Funny thing, I met a black man who was a memeber of the KKK, he even showed me his card. So just as there can be blacks in the LDSinc. So they can be members of the KKK. After all don't everyone want to be white and delightsome?
That's odd since the KKK was organized to oppose blacks. Do you think it was a legitimate card?

[nrajeffreturns]

That's nothing--I know sinners who belong to Christianity--an organization whose stated mission is to eradicate sin from the world!

[RealFakeHair]

That's odd since the KKK was organized to oppose blacks. Do you think it was a legitimate card?

I know, I didn't believe him until he showed me the card, and the long story behind it.

[RealFakeHair]

That's nothing--I know sinners who belong to Christianity--an organization whose stated mission is to eradicate sin from the world!

I know of no such Christian organization. I belong to a christian organization that tries to saved the world from their sins.

[James Banta]

Funny thing, I met a black man who was a memeber of the KKK, he even showed me his card. So just as there can be blacks in the LDSinc. So they can be members of the KKK. After all don't everyone want to be white and delightsome?

I am from the ole school.. I still think a tan looks pretty good.. :) IHS jim

[James Banta]

That's nothing--I know sinners who belong to Christianity--an organization whose stated mission is to eradicate sin from the world!

Since Jesus the Christ is the chief corner stone of those that He has called to be the stones of his CHURCH the Stated mission has been to seek and save those who are lost in sin, just as He reached into the mess that is the world and drew us out and made us whole.. This christianity you have heard of is foreign to me.. It must be like mormonism, a counterfeit of the Church Jesus promise to build, a Church that He will sustain even if attacked by the gates of hell.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

That's nothing--I know sinners who belong to Christianity--an organization whose stated mission is to eradicate sin from the world!

Yes, Jeff, we are sinners. That's why we have to put our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ's Blood shed on Calvary. For you Mormon non-sinners, there's always Gethsemane, right? Saved by sweat, is that how it goes! That plus a whole bunch of Mormon works requirements - and unending list, including no facial hair and ti thing!

[Apologette]

I know, I didn't believe him until he showed me the card, and the long story behind it.
Which pretty much says that even an African American can be deceived into joining an organization that is racist to the core. And Mormonism isn't much better!

[nrajeffreturns]

Which pretty much says that even an African American can be deceived into joining an organization that is racist to the core. And Mormonism isn't much better!

It's just a little better than Reformationism.

[Apologette]

It's just a little better than Reformationism.

Oh, are you referring to the phony Mormon "restoration," which was actually a "replacement." That cult replaced God with gods. Replaced Jesus with Lucifer's brother. Replaced the Gospel with false "revelations." Replaced truth with Nephites and Lamanites and other such fantasies. Think you're s****ing the bottom of the barrel Jeff. Why not jump in the barrel and see if you can't come up with something a little intellectually challenging for a change.

[Ma'am]

That's nothing--I know sinners who belong to Christianity--an organization whose stated mission is to eradicate sin from the world!

Everyone in the whole world is a sinner. Jesus alone was sinless, in all of earth's history. I am a sinner. So is my husband, and daughter, and parents and sister and in-laws and even my pastor--we are all sinners. But Jesus said He didn't come for the righteous, but for the sinners, for they were and are the ones who truly need Him. Those who think they are "righteous" won't feel the need for Jesus and His forgiveness.

I like a bumper sticker I once saw--"Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven."

[James Banta]

Everyone in the whole world is a sinner. Jesus alone was sinless, in all of earth's history. I am a sinner. So is my husband, and daughter, and parents and sister and in-laws and even my pastor--we are all sinners. But Jesus said He didn't come for the righteous, but for the sinners, for they were and are the ones who truly need Him. Those who think they are "righteous" won't feel the need for Jesus and His forgiveness.

I like a bumper sticker I once saw--"Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven."

We, all of us, have broken the Laws of God not just one or two of them but according to the Apostle James but if we keep the whole law but offend in one point we are guilty of the whole Law.. If we bear a false witness (Lie) we are a murderer and thief, and adulterer, and an idolator.. In all that we hear Jesus say "I love you this much" then spreading out His arms to die.. This is why I will always remain IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

We, all of us, have broken the Laws of God not just one or two of them but according to the Apostle James but if we keep the whole law but offend in one point we are guilty of the whole Law..
And since you believe that any sin is an unforgivable sin, then all of us have committed the unpardonable sin, right?

[nrajeffreturns]

Everyone in the whole world is a sinner.
What about the babies who will get aborted today? What sins did they commit?


I am a sinner. So is my husband, and daughter, and parents and sister and in-laws and even my pastor--we are all sinners.
Especially if you have borne false witness against the LDS.


But Jesus said He didn't come for the righteous, but for the sinners, for they were and are the ones who truly need Him.
Do you believe He came for the LDS? Because some of you Calvinists believe that Jesus didn't die for Mormons.


Those who think they are "righteous" won't feel the need for Jesus and His forgiveness.
Do you think you are righteous?


I like a bumper sticker I once saw--"Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven."
I like this one: "Anti-LDS Evangelicals aren't perfect--they're just the elite, elect of God, even though they didn't do anything different from what LDS people did."

[RealFakeHair]

Labels, forget about them, just put your trust in Jesus of the Holy Bible, and see what happens.

[Apologette]

Labels, forget about them, just put your trust in Jesus of the Holy Bible, and see what happens.

People with obsessions often cannot! It is a matter of needed deliverance.

[Ma'am]

What about the babies who will get aborted today? What sins did they commit?

What is your point?



Especially if you have borne false witness against the LDS.

I haven't done so, to my knowledge.



Do you believe He came for the LDS? Because some of you Calvinists believe that Jesus didn't die for Mormons.

Yes, He came for everyone--****sexual, those in cults, Catholics, Protestants, blacks, whites, Africans, Americans, Jews, Gentiles--everyone.



Do you think you are righteous?

Only in Jesus Christ.



I like this one: "Anti-LDS Evangelicals aren't perfect--they're just the elite, elect of God, even though they didn't do anything different from what LDS people did."

I didn't write that so I don't know to what you are referring.

[Apologette]

What is your point?




I haven't done so, to my knowledge.




Yes, He came for everyone--****sexual, those in cults, Catholics, Protestants, blacks, whites, Africans, Americans, Jews, Gentiles--everyone.




Only in Jesus Christ.




I didn't write that so I don't know to what you are referring.

They just have no clue about the Gospel, the Good News. All they know is the bad news of Joe Smith, conman and ritual magician.

[nrajeffreturns]

What is your point?
My point was that you are mistaken if you think that babies have sinned. And you are mistaken if you think the Bible teaches that babies commit sin.

[Apologette]

Since Jesus the Christ is the chief corner stone of those that He has called to be the stones of his CHURCH the Stated mission has been to seek and save those who are lost in sin, just as He reached into the mess that is the world and drew us out and made us whole.. This christianity you have heard of is foreign to me.. It must be like mormonism, a counterfeit of the Church Jesus promise to build, a Church that He will sustain even if attacked by the gates of hell.. IHS jim

I'm afraid Jeff wouldn't know the Gospel or a Christian Church if they came up and bumped into him. He's totally indoctrinated in cultic beliefs! No room for Jesus at all!

[nrajeffreturns]

I'm afraid Jeff wouldn't know the Gospel
Gospel: The gospel of Christ is that He is the Son of God and Savior of the world and only way to salvation who atoned for people's sins and was resurrected after He died.


or a Christian Church
Christian Church: A church that teaches the gospel of Christ.


if they came up and bumped into him.
If a church ever bumps into me, it's gonna be kind of disturbing. I guess it could happen if an earthquake were occurring.


He's totally indoctrinated in cultic beliefs!
Like the belief that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the world and only way to salvation who atoned for people's sins and was resurrected after He died? I guess to a non-believer that might seem pretty "whack."


No room for Jesus at all!
There is no room for a being who is literally 3 separate persons and who is literally omnipresent. Because by definition, such a being takes up a whole lotta space!

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149903]Gospel: The gospel of Christ is that He is the Son of God and Savior of the world and only way to salvation who atoned for people's sins and was resurrected after He died.

Good Jeff, where are the Law and ordinances that are listed in mormonism as part of the Gospel? Is baptism included in that definition? How about the laying on of hand, priesthood, or celestial marriage? Are the ten commandments , or any laws God has given to us part of the Gospel? I don't see them in your definition. If that is the Gospel, then anything that has been added to it like the ordinances I have here asked you about here have no place in the understanding the real Gospel of Jesus Christ. In short the gospel taught in the LDS church is not the Gospel taught in the Bible. The LDS church has clearly added obedience to Laws, and the completion of ordinances to the gospel..

AofF 3
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.


Christian Church: A church that teaches the gospel of Christ.

This would mean that because the LDS church teaches another gospel, a gospel of laws and ordinances, it is not a Christian church.. It is the invention of a man based on what seems right to him, instead of what is right to God..


Like the belief that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the world and only way to salvation who atoned for people's sins and was resurrected after He died? I guess to a non-believer that might seem pretty "whack."

Does the LDS church teach that all the other Christian churches that teach that "Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the world and only way to salvation who atoned for people's sins and was resurrected after He died" are just as true and have the same authority as the LDS church does? Or does it teach that they are all wrong; that all their creeds are an abomination in God's sight; that their teaches are all corrupt; that: they draw near to God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof (JSH 19). Has that changed or do the LDS still see all the Christian churches to still be in that same place.. I don't see that being consistent with how you have defined the the Gospel or the Church in your post..


There is no room for a being who is literally 3 separate persons and who is literally omnipresent. Because by definition, such a being takes up a whole lotta space!

Oh, at last your denial of God.. What did Solomom say about the temple He built for the worship of God? Do you know? Let me bring it to your attention:

1 Kings 8:27
But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built

Unknowingly you have agreed with God's word.. God is "literally 3 separate persons and who is literally omnipresent. Because by definition, such a being takes up a whole lotta space".. You are on the right road now makes these things your foundational faith and as you reject all else that disagrees with these teachings I will be able to call you brother.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

And since you believe that any sin is an unforgivable sin, then all of us have committed the unpardonable sin, right?

Not until we leave this world. For God teaches us in His word that "For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." When night comes no more work can be done.. Those that have not come to Jesus to have Him become sin for them and be made the righteousness of God in Him, will find that all their other sin will have been forgiven them (Matthew 12:31).. Only the sin of denying the Holy Spirit in His leading you to the cross will be left on your account (Matthew 12:31).. It will be that sin and only that sin that will bring a man to the Lake of Fire.. If you yield to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and come to Jesus in faith believing, then that sin will not be there against a person either.. Though the work of Jesus salvation will be available since such a believer will have the righteousness of Jesus and not stand before God in the sin of their denials.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent. That's because Mormons have a puny physical god that spends all day procreating babies, and has to ***ign duties to his underlings. He didn't even create anything, just ***igned some of his kids to reorganize matter. This god is a total fiction.

Is God omnipresent, you can study what the Bible says here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence

[Ma'am]

EVERYONE should stay away from the LDS and not join, not just African-Americans.

[Ma'am]

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent. That's because Mormons have a puny physical god that spends all day procreating babies, and has to ***ign duties to his underlings. He didn't even create anything, just ***igned some of his kids to reorganize matter. This god is a total fiction.

Is God omnipresent, you can study what the Bible says here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence

He sounds like a very weak, ineffectual sort of god.

[nrajeffreturns]

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent.
Nah, I just condemn the supers***ious fairy tale about Jesus being literally simultaneously everywhere. That ain't in the Bible. It's merely an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

You might as well claim that God literally has chicken wings, too, as long as you're doing eisegesis on metaphorical verses.

[Ma'am]

Nah, I just condemn the supers***ious fairy tale about Jesus being literally simultaneously everywhere. That ain't in the Bible. It's merely an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

You might as well claim that God literally has chicken wings, too, as long as you're doing eisegesis on metaphorical verses.

Jesus said that wherever two or three are gathered in His name, there He would be, in the midst of them. That is being omnipresent, as thousands, if not millions, of people gather together in His name all over the world, every day. And Jesus wasn't being poetic. Or do you think Jesus was a liar?

God has stated that there is no place we can go, to get away from Him. He is there in the depths of the sea, and in the farthest reaches of the stars. That is being omnipresent. That isn't being poetic, but a simple statement of fact. Even if it were being poetic, would God say something about Himself that wasn't true, even to be poetic? After all, the bible says that "God is not a man, that He should lie." Unlike Joseph Smith who lied all the time.

So, the LDS Elohim is a weak, ineffectual, limited little "god" not worthy of the t-i-t-l-e.

[nrajeffreturns]

Jesus said that wherever two or three are gathered in His name, there He would be, in the midst of them.
And you took that LITERALLY? I rest my case. You have an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

I guess anytime someone tells you "You're in our thoughts" you believe that you, as a person, will literally be in their thoughts.


And Jesus wasn't being poetic. Or do you think Jesus was a liar?
When Jesus pointed to Mary and told John "Behold your mother" and John took it literally, I bet it was a shock to John. All those years he thought some other lady had been his mom.

So, of the option of Jesus being poetic and speaking metaphorically, or Jesus being a liar, I will vote for "Jesus was being poetic."


God has stated that there is no place we can go, to get away from Him.
And Obama has stated that there was no place Osama Bin Laden could go where he'd be able to escape the U.S. military. So you believe that the U.S. Military is literally everywhere, all the time. Interesting.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE=Apologette;149607]Because of Mormonism's racist past, they are seeking to convert African Americans so that they can prove they are not racist! They even use blacks in their ads, "I'm a Mormon." They think this will counter their past racism! I live among Mormons here in the southwest, and in our area there is not one Mormon who is black, and few who are Hispanic. In fact, I've had Hispanics complain to me about prejudice against them in totally Mormon areas! I believe it because down deep Mormons still believe what their own prophets have taught them in the past:
[B]

I know a lot about this history---especially in light of my family having African American as part of their heritage. I think you are giving a very one-sided look at this issue.

[Apologette]

[QUOTE]

I know a lot about this history---especially in light of my family having African American as part of their heritage. I think you are giving a very one-sided look at this issue.
I don't. It's much worse than I posted.

[BigJulie]

I don't. It's much worse than I posted.

Actually, it is not. The racism that existed was part of the culture of the time period.

Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood and he was a member of the first quorum of the seventy. Like so many issues, if you really want to know what happened, you have to do a lot of historical research--and then, just as of today---it is hard to really know.

Just as we can't really know the full extent of anyone's life or their decisions or their thoughts in our lifetime, it is even more difficult to know the full-truth of the past.

For this reason, if you want to know---you have to really be willing to look at all sides of the issue and present it fully.

What I do know is that God is no respecter of persons and His atonement is for all. This has always been part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[neverending]

And you took that LITERALLY? I rest my case. You have an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

I guess anytime someone tells you "You're in our thoughts" you believe that you, as a person, will literally be in their thoughts.


When Jesus pointed to Mary and told John "Behold your mother" and John took it literally, I bet it was a shock to John. All those years he thought some other lady had been his mom.

So, of the option of Jesus being poetic and speaking metaphorically, or Jesus being a liar, I will vote for "Jesus was being poetic."


And Obama has stated that there was no place Osama Bin Laden could go where he'd be able to escape the U.S. military. So you believe that the U.S. Military is literally everywhere, all the time. Interesting.

Jeff, when I have had a friend who was ill or having difficulties within their family, and I tell them, "you will be in my thoughts and prayers" YOU better know that YES, that person will be in my thoughts and prayers. I don't say that only to hear myself, it is sincere and true. I guess for you saying that would be insincere for you really don't care about that person. Now when Christ looked down from hanging on the cross he said to John, "Behold your mother" Christ was telling John that soon I will be dead and my mother will need someone to look after her; I am asking you to do that and treat her as if she were your mother. It is sad that you didn't realize that touching moment.

[nrajeffreturns]

Jeff, when I have had a friend who was ill or having difficulties within their family, and I tell them, "you will be in my thoughts and prayers" YOU better know that YES, that person will be in my thoughts and prayers.
Yeah, but not literally. The person won't be actually transported inside your head. It's just an expression. It's NEVER intended to be taken literally. Some Bible verses are like that.


I guess for you saying that would be insincere for you really don't care about that person.
You guess wrong.


Now when Christ looked down from hanging on the cross he said to John, "Behold your mother" Christ was telling John that soon I will be dead and my mother will need someone to look after her; I am asking you to do that and treat her as if she were your mother.
You have correctly recognized a metaphorical statement. Congratulations. See, some Bible statements were not intended to be taken literally. This is one example, as you have rightly noticed. "I and My Father are one" is another such statement.


It is sad that you didn't realize that touching moment.
You guessed wrong again. I realized that moment before you did, perhaps. What is REALLY sad is that you have yet to realize those OTHER statements that were intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;150021]Yeah, but not literally. The person won't be actually transported inside your head. It's just an expression. It's NEVER intended to be taken literally. Some Bible verses are like that.

Yes in some verses a simile is used to help us understand God's intent.. God isn't a consuming fire but He is like a consuming fire.. It isn't a hen protecting her chicks but His affection for His children can be seen in that picture.. Can a person be in our thoughts and prayers? No more in that than they can be in our thoughts as they stand directly before us.. But my mother lives in my heart and mind. Her body has been in the ground for many years now.. Who are you to say she doesn't? That is not provable by you or anyone else.. You would be foolish to try..

What do you not want to take literally about the Bible? Maybe your pet doctrines that there are three Gods or is it one God and two ***istants , one a demigod? If you don't like the literal meaning of a scripture you will have to explain the real meaning of the nonliterary text.. Until it can be shown to be a simile or a metaphor it has to be seen as literal..


"I and My Father are one" is another such statement.

Here is where you are running into a problem.. Is it a metaphor? I see the p***ages that teach that there is ONE GOD. That No God has ever been formed before God was God or after He was already God.. God Himself telling us that He doesn't know that any other God exists.. And still you deny that Jesus meant it literally that He and the Father are one.. If there is One God and the Father is God and Jesus is God how can it be that they are NOT literally one? Because of all that He has told us about Himself, the Father and the Son must be one God, coeternal in that state.. If you have other pretended Biblical metaphors please bring then up and we can use the Bible to make it clear whether they are or not..


You guessed wrong again. I realized that moment before you did, perhaps. What is REALLY sad is that you have yet to realize those OTHER statements that were intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally.

What is sad is that you take p***ages to be metaphorically when it is clear that their literal meaning is supported in many other p***ages in the Word.. Such action is mere mistrust of God through His message to us.. That is the opposite of faith and the scripture makes it clear that salvation is by God's grace through Faith and NOT BY WORKS, and not by calling truth mere metaphors.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Actually, it is not. The racism that existed was part of the culture of the time period.

Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood and he was a member of the first quorum of the seventy. Like so many issues, if you really want to know what happened, you have to do a lot of historical research--and then, just as of today---it is hard to really know.

Just as we can't really know the full extent of anyone's life or their decisions or their thoughts in our lifetime, it is even more difficult to know the full-truth of the past.

For this reason, if you want to know---you have to really be willing to look at all sides of the issue and present it fully.

What I do know is that God is no respecter of persons and His atonement is for all. This has always been part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well, I guess it all depends on how you take the ugly, hateful remarks that Brigham Young made about blacks!

[RealFakeHair]

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent. That's because Mormons have a puny physical god that spends all day procreating babies, and has to ***ign duties to his underlings. He didn't even create anything, just ***igned some of his kids to reorganize matter. This god is a total fiction.

Is God omnipresent, you can study what the Bible says here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence

That is the miracle of mormonism, their god has time for all day sex, meetings with his LDSinc. new comers, from their Exaltionals, and who knows what else, all this in a 24 hour day.

[Billyray]

Actually, it is not.
Do you agree with the statements from your early leaders on this issue?

[BigJulie]

Well, I guess it all depends on how you take the ugly, hateful remarks that Brigham Young made about blacks!

I take them to be a part of history (well, as historic as the discourses are because they were not actually written by Brigham Young and were not overviewed by him) and is racism part of our history? Yes. Is it part of all American's history? Yes.

How do we feel about African Americans, today and yesterday.

As I said, a black man was ordained by Joseph Smith into the priesthood and part of the first quorum of the seventy. You have not addressed that. You prefer to keep it one-sided. But as I said, if you really want to know the history of blacks in the LDS faith, it takes a lot more than a few quotes.

[BigJulie]

Do you agree with the statements from your early leaders on this issue?

Billyray, those statements were not canonized and are not part of our religion today.

[Apologette]

Nah, I just condemn the supers***ious fairy tale about Jesus being literally simultaneously everywhere. That ain't in the Bible. It's merely an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

You might as well claim that God literally has chicken wings, too, as long as you're doing eisegesis on metaphorical verses.
As if you knew anything about the Bible!

[Apologette]

I take them to be a part of history (well, as historic as the discourses are because they were not actually written by Brigham Young and were not overviewed by him) and is racism part of our history? Yes. Is it part of all American's history? Yes.

How do we feel about African Americans, today and yesterday.

As I said, a black man was ordained by Joseph Smith into the priesthood and part of the first quorum of the seventy. You have not addressed that. You prefer to keep it one-sided. But as I said, if you really want to know the history of blacks in the LDS faith, it takes a lot more than a few quotes.

Any African-American who doesn't condemn the racial slurs of Mormon leaders has been so indoctrinated that their own self-respect is gone.

[James Banta]

Any African-American who doesn't condemn the racial slurs of Mormon leaders has been so indoctrinated that their own self-respect is gone.

Isn't it interesting that the first non Israelite (Gentile) convert, to Jesus was a Black man? One thought of by God as being so valuable that Philip was taken by the power of God to tell him of the way to life through Jesus? And mormonism had the gall (they being God's one true church) to say that the black race was ever inferior? I am ashamed of the way the southern churches (for that matter the northern ones too) treated the black race.. Apparently God loves them very much.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Any African-American who doesn't condemn the racial slurs of Mormon leaders has been so indoctrinated that their own self-respect is gone.

You forget, my husband's family has African American heritage--and I am close friends with quite a few African American Mormons.

I think they see it the way I do. History is messy--the gospel is pure. Humans will always be flawed. God will always be perfect. Happiness comes from learning who God is and doing as He teaches. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness. As such, it teaches correct principles that lead to happiness.

As I said as with Edison and Tesla--you can either make your opinion by trying to judge history or you can form your opinion by enjoying the "light" of today.

http://thevisualcommunicationguy.com/2013/11/12/religious-health-o-meter-infographic/

Mormons are not surprised by these results.

[Apologette]

That is the miracle of mormonism, their god has time for all day sex, meetings with his LDSinc. new comers, from their Exaltionals, and who knows what else, all this in a 24 hour day.

Hanging out in the various "holy of holies" rooms in the Mormon temples for relaxation!

[Apologette]

You forget, my husband's family has African American heritage--and I am close friends with quite a few African American Mormons.

I think they see it the way I do. History is messy--the gospel is pure. Humans will always be flawed. God will always be perfect. Happiness comes from learning who God is and doing as He teaches. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness. As such, it teaches correct principles that lead to happiness.

As I said as with Edison and Tesla--you can either make your opinion by trying to judge history or you can form your opinion by enjoying the "light" of today.

http://thevisualcommunicationguy.com/2013/11/12/religious-health-o-meter-infographic/

Mormons are not surprised by these results.

How does your husband feel about Young's statements? No problems?

[BigJulie]

How does your husband feel about Young's statements? No problems?

He sees them as just that---statements. He has studied the history of the blacks of the church at length and he said the end result is that his testimony is stronger. You want a "clean" religion---but the only way to do that is to separate yourself from any human of the past--as if the Bible dropped in your lap and there were no humans or human flaws involved. God understands it doesn't work that way. So do I. So does my husband.

[theway]

Why African Americans Should Stay Away From MormonismI'm curious as to why you would use such a racist comment to start your thread?

After all, it appears you think that "African Americans" would be more emotionally unstable and break down after reading your thread, than say if a White was to read your thread. But then maybe I'm ***uming too much; what exactly did you mean by "African Americans". Do you believe that all people from Africa are Black, and therefore will never be able to identify themselves as anything else? What do you have against Blacks only identifying themselves as Americans? Do you not want Black Americans?

It seems someone's racism is peeking through, and its not the LDS.

[RealFakeHair]

I'm curious as to why you would use such a racist comment to start your thread?

After all, it appears you think that "African Americans" would be more emotionally unstable and break down after reading your thread, than say if a White was to read your thread. But then maybe I'm ***uming too much; what exactly did you mean by "African Americans". Do you believe that all people from Africa are Black, and therefore will never be able to identify themselves as anything else? What do you have against Blacks only identifying themselves as Americans? Do you not want Black Americans?

It seems someone's racism is peeking through, and its not the LDS.

I find when one is a member of a racist god who didn't think to much of the black folk it might be best to keep quiet.

[nrajeffreturns]

I find when one is a member of a racist god who didn't think to much of the black folk it might be best to keep quiet.

But if you're a Calvinist, then the lamentable conditions that some races have historically had to endure, is a direct result of God wanting them to suffer that way, and not because of anything those races did that was worse than any other race, but merely because God is capricious and thought He could get more glory out of their suffering than He could have if He'd treated them like other races.

[theway]

I find when one is a member of a racist god who didn't think to much of the black folk it might be best to keep quiet.
Good advice... Especially since according to Evangelical theology, your God is the most racist there is.

Given that you believe in Faith Alone, a person would have had to have had a faith in Christ while on this earth to have been saved. Since the vast majority of Christians were White Europeans for the last 2000 years, that means that God only wants Whites to be saved.... Oh how your God must hate Asians.... They are the majority on this earth, but your God put them in an area with the least likely opportunity for a faith in Christ.

Your right... Best you keep that part of your God under wraps.

[RealFakeHair]

But if you're a Calvinist, then the lamentable conditions that some races have historically had to endure, is a direct result of God wanting them to suffer that way, and not because of anything those races did that was worse than any other race, but merely because God is capricious and thought He could get more glory out of their suffering than He could have if He'd treated them like other races.

lol, Throwing Calvin in there is a hoot. The mormon god was and is racist, Okay that's a given.

[RealFakeHair]

Good advice... Especially since according to Evangelical theology, your God is the most racist there is.

Given that you believe in Faith Alone, a person would have had to have had a faith in Christ while on this earth to have been saved. Since the vast majority of Christians were White Europeans for the last 2000 years, that means that God only wants Whites to be saved.... Oh how your God must hate Asians.... They are the majority on this earth, but your God put them in an area with the least likely opportunity for a faith in Christ.

Your right... Best you keep that part of your God under wraps.

Okay, now who was in that Phillip met in the desert to baptise?

[theway]

So, if your skin is darker than your "white and delightsome" Mormon neighbor, you might want to review racism as incorporated into Mormon history and doctrine. Remember, Mormons are trying to enlist blacks into their cult in order to rectify their racist past! Don't be used!
Hey... Interesting enough I just read mail from my son who is on his third month on his mission(who is Black).

He just baptized one family (all Black) and one 20 year old ex gang member (also Black) who now is following them around wanting to be a missionary also.

Looks like you need to step up your game CA... nobody's listening to the mess you're dishing out.

[Sir]

Hey... Interesting enough I just read mail from my son who is on his third month on his mission(who is Black).

He just baptized one family (all Black) and one 20 year old ex gang member (also Black) who now is following them around wanting to be a missionary also.

Looks like you need to step up your game CA... nobody's listening to the mess you're dishing out.

Awesome!!!

[RealFakeHair]

Hey... Interesting enough I just read mail from my son who is on his third month on his mission(who is Black).

He just baptized one family (all Black) and one 20 year old ex gang member (also Black) who now is following them around wanting to be a missionary also.

Looks like you need to step up your game CA... nobody's listening to the mess you're dishing out.

Have any of them turned alittle bit white yet?

[theway]

Have any of them turned alittle bit white yet?
My wife thinks so based on the way he dances.... It's embarr***ing.

Though he would wonder why you think he would want to be white? Please explain that?

[RealFakeHair]

My wife thinks so based on the way he dances.... It's embarr***ing.

Though he would wonder why you think he would want to be white? Please explain that?

O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought before the throne of God (Book of Mormon, Jacob 3:8).

[Apologette]

Hey... Interesting enough I just read mail from my son who is on his third month on his mission(who is Black).

He just baptized one family (all Black) and one 20 year old ex gang member (also Black) who now is following them around wanting to be a missionary also.

Looks like you need to step up your game CA... nobody's listening to the mess you're dishing out.


So, that's why I'm posting here. So that missionaries like your son won't seduce any more people into the cult. Your son tells them the Mormon version, we tell the truth.

[Apologette]

O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought before the throne of God (Book of Mormon, Jacob 3:8).

Ha! Did you see last night on FOX (Hannity) where Leo, a black ACLU lawyer said there is still apartheid in Utah and Idaho? I don't know if I'd go that far, but I've had hispanics tell me that they were ostrasized by the Mormon cultists for having a darker shade of skin.

[theway]

So, that's why I'm posting here. So that missionaries like your son won't seduce any more people into the cult. Your son tells them the Mormon version, we tell the truth.And these forums are exactly where I would want you to post your mess... Where nobody will ever see it.:D

[theway]

Ha! Did you see last night on FOX (Hannity) where Leo, a black ACLU lawyer said there is still apartheid in Utah and Idaho? I don't know if I'd go that far, but I've had hispanics tell me that they were ostrasized by the Mormon cultists for having a darker shade of skin.I find that if my position matches the ACLU, I'm probably wrong.

Just an aside.. My non member daughter (who is Black) is getting married this month to another non member (who is Black) and will be moving. He had the choice of moving anywhere in the US for his ***, he told me his number 1 choice would be to move back to Utah around SLC.
Strange how it is always so hard to find people which agree with your biased AntiMormon view of the world isn't it CA.

[RealFakeHair]

I find that if my position matches the ACLU, I'm probably wrong.

Just an aside.. My non member daughter (who is Black) is getting married this month to another non member (who is Black) and will be moving. He had the choice of moving anywhere in the US for his ***, he told me his number 1 choice would be to move back to Utah around SLC.
Strange how it is always so hard to find people which agree with your biased AntiMormon view of the world isn't it CA.

I like Utal too, I just don't like those long lines at the ice-cream shops and Krispy Kreme.
Oh, by the way is your non-LDS daughter darker than your pro-LDS son?
And less we forget this verse in the Book of Joseph Smith jr.
O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought before the throne of God (Book of Mormon, Jacob 3:8).

[nrajeffreturns]

lol, Throwing Calvin in there is a hoot. The mormon god was and is racist, Okay that's a given.

Only if the Calvinist god is a sexist. Do you really want to debate that?

[theway]

I like Utal too, I just don't like those long lines at the ice-cream shops and Krispy Kreme.
Oh, by the way is your non-LDS daughter darker than your pro-LDS son?
And less we forget this verse in the Book of Joseph Smith jr.
O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought before the throne of God (Book of Mormon, Jacob 3:8).
Once again... Can you please explain why you think this verse is talking about Blacks?????

[RealFakeHair]

Only if the Calvinist god is a sexist. Do you really want to debate that?

I don't know anything about a calvinist god, I only know the God of the Holy Bible, and yes He is in N.O.W. Interpretation sexist. Jesus is head of the Church and man is head of the woman, That sound good to me.

[BigJulie]

I don't know anything about a calvinist god, I only know the God of the Holy Bible, and yes He is in N.O.W. Interpretation sexist. Jesus is head of the Church and man is head of the woman, That sound good to me.

Ahh, I have met some "Christians" who believe that women can be pastors and hold the priesthood (act as priests) and then I have met others who say no way. So, if I was to act like you, I would say that one of these groups does not believe in the "God of the Bible" and MUST be going to hell.

You seem to believe that the group that allows woman's pastors is the group that does NOT believe in the God of the Bible and must be going to hell.

[Apologette]

And these forums are exactly where I would want you to post your mess... Where nobody will ever see it.:D

I think many see how foolish and disrespectful to God you Mormons are here. Your evil will sow seeds of doubt in many minds about your cult.

[theway]

Your evil will sow seeds of doubt in many minds about your cult.Yes... And that is exactly what evil does, it sows seeds of doubt. Only AntiMormons are the only ones here doing the devil's work of doubt sowing.

[Ma'am]

My point was that you are mistaken if you think that babies have sinned. And you are mistaken if you think the Bible teaches that babies commit sin.

I didn't say anything like that. The bible is silent as to what happens to babies who die, or are stillborn, or aborted. We just don't know. David DID write that "in sin did my mother conceive me" and that he was a sinner from his mother's womb. And babies do physically die, and death is the result of sin upon the world.

On the other hand, babies don't know their left hand from their right hand and haven't yet had time to do anything good or bad. So, I leave that in God's hands; I trust him to do what is right and just and his judgments are always right and just.

Now, back to the OP--EVERYONE should stay away from the LDS--for its teachings are pure heresy. And lead to spiritual death.

[BigJulie]

I didn't say anything like that. The bible is silent as to what happens to babies who die, or are stillborn, or aborted. We just don't know. David DID write that "in sin did my mother conceive me" and that he was a sinner from his mother's womb. And babies do physically die, and death is the result of sin upon the world.

On the other hand, babies don't know their left hand from their right hand and haven't yet had time to do anything good or bad. So, I leave that in God's hands; I trust him to do what is right and just and his judgments are always right and just.

Now, back to the OP--EVERYONE should stay away from the LDS--for its teachings are pure heresy. And lead to spiritual death.

Oh, on another thread, some non-LDS are saying babies are given God's grace.

Now back to the OP---EVERYONE should embrace the LDS--for its teaching are pure and lead to spiritual life. :)

Your turn.

[Apologette]

I find when one is a member of a racist god who didn't think to much of the black folk it might be best to keep quiet.

Right! I just hope African Americans get educated about what Mormonism has traditionally taught about their race!

[Apologette]

Oh, on another thread, some non-LDS are saying babies are given God's grace.

Now back to the OP---EVERYONE should embrace the LDS--for its teaching are pure and lead to spiritual life. :)

Your turn.

Oh, that took a lot of insight and thought! Tell me, were you born into Mormonism?

[James Banta]

Oh, on another thread, some non-LDS are saying babies are given God's grace.

Now back to the OP---EVERYONE should embrace the LDS--for its teaching are pure and lead to spiritual life. :)

Your turn.

The teachings that there are other Gods is pure? Idolatry is one of the reason Israel had so much trouble with her neighbors after coming back into the land after their captivity in Egypt.. The teaching of other Gods is a serious crime against God that isn't purity.. God taught Moses that the Lord our God is ONE LORD (Deut 6:4). Jesus confirmed that doctrine in Mark 12:29.. But what did Smith teach you?

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three const itute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473

Smith's challenge was met and contradicted in the confirmation Jesus gave in Mark 12:29 as to the singularity of GOD..

Even your own BofM contradicts the doctrine of multiple wives.. There it teaches that David committed wicked acts desiring many wives.. The wickedness of polygamy in the taking of many wives, suddenly becomes righteousness in the 132nd of the D&C? And these are the actions that you are willing to call the teachings of purity that lead to spiritual life? REALLY? That is UNBELIEVABLE! IHS jim