Joseph Smith, the de facto "god" of the Mormon cult!

[Apologette]

You call us fools: but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a God, and also upon Brigham Young, our Governor in the Territory of Deseret.

Heber Kimball, Mormon Apostles, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5

If you are around Mormons for any length of time, you'll see that the centerpiece of their beliefs, their whole religious system is Joseph Smith. He is, in fact, their god! Lip service is paid to "heavenly father," (and exalted man from another planet), and to Jesus (the brother of Satan, the older brother of Mormons). But in reality, it is Joseph Smith (a pedohile, practicing occultist and astrologer, dowser, treasure hunter, and banking criminal) who holds center stage. This is the truth, and the above quote by an early Mormon Apostle (inspired by the Mormon "god") proves that is correct.

Here's some more:

"Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a p***port to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."

--Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7

Are you thinking of joining Mormonism? Then cast aside your belief in the God of the Bible, the Jesus of Scriptures, and embrace the new gods: Smith and Young!

[Snow Patrol]

Pure bullpucky. If you want to know who our God is...then ask. Pulling quotes out of context without looking at the big picture is not a way to get a true understanding of anyone's beliefs. Hopefully by now you've come to understand the posts from this poster are extraordinarily biased and full of misrepresentations. Sad, but that is what it is.

[Apologette]

Pure bullpucky. If you want to know who our God is...then ask. Pulling quotes out of context without looking at the big picture is not a way to get a true understanding of anyone's beliefs. Hopefully by now you've come to understand the posts from this poster are extraordinarily biased and full of misrepresentations. Sad, but that is what it is.

Of course I don't agree with YOUR Brethren, but the fact is they saw Smith as a god. Go ahead an renounce those false statements and say they are straight from the pit. I dare you!

[James Banta]

Pure bullpucky. If you want to know who our God is...then ask. Pulling quotes out of context without looking at the big picture is not a way to get a true understanding of anyone's beliefs. Hopefully by now you've come to understand the posts from this poster are extraordinarily biased and full of misrepresentations. Sad, but that is what it is.

And as we ask, who is the God of mormonism we are always left wondering.. Is Jesus God? Is the Holy Ghost God? Or is the only God the Father and Jesus merely his only begotten son? If that is the case how is or isn't the Holy Spirit God? Does the fact that the BofM teaches that these three persons are God, have any effect of the God of mormonism? Inspirit of what scripture teaches there are the words of Joseph Smith on who and what God is and we wonder is that the final rule for the LDS church? So what is truth the BofM teaches about the nature of God as it says "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21). The teaching that there is one God and not three as Amulek taught saying "Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No." (Alma 11:27-29)

With that recorded in a book the LDS affirm is the Word of God without a cavort as to it's correctness of translation. Joseph Smith still taught that there are three Gods, teaching that "Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473).

Let me tell you who can contradict it. Smith himself as he wrote the testimony of the three witnesses, His book of mormon as I have shown here, and Jesus who quoting the scripture given to Moses affirming that the Lord our God is one Lord (Mark 12:29).. So is Smith or is he not the centerpiece of LDS beliefs? Seems that the LDS believe him as they reject the teaching of their own scripture.. Not just the Bible but the BofM that the LDS church ignore and instead hold only to the most late of all the words of their prophet. Tell me when did these things change and God who teaches us in all these records decide that they are false and He isn't one Lord but three? Only God Himself could make such a correction so Smith must be the LDS God. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Pure bullpucky. If you want to know who our God is...then ask. Pulling quotes out of context without looking at the big picture is not a way to get a true understanding of anyone's beliefs. Hopefully by now you've come to understand the posts from this poster are extraordinarily biased and full of misrepresentations. Sad, but that is what it is.

Well, Snow, when are you going to denounce those Mormons who claim Smith is their god?

[Snow Patrol]

Well, Snow, when are you going to denounce those Mormons who claim Smith is their god?

If you are trying to say that they taught and believed that Joseph Smith was to replace God the Father, then they were absolutely WRONG. But that is not what they were saying.

[James Banta]

If you are trying to say that they taught and believed that Joseph Smith was to replace God the Father, then they were absolutely WRONG. But that is not what they were saying.

Snow, Jesus is God! He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.. No one comes to the Father but by Him.. Yet the LDS teach that no one of this dispensation will enter the Kingdom of God without a certificate from Joseph Smith.. That is a teaching that replaces Jesus with the man, the sinner, Joseph Smith.. In this way Smith is the God of the LDS.. Praise to the man, right? IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Snow, Jesus is God!

Actually, Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the mediator between us and God. Look it up in the Bible.

[Apologette]

If you are trying to say that they taught and believed that Joseph Smith was to replace God the Father, then they were absolutely WRONG. But that is not what they were saying.

So, you believe Smith (and Young) are now gods? Are they gods over you?

[Apologette]

Actually, Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the mediator between us and God. Look it up in the Bible.

What does the term "and the Word was God" mean to you, nothing? How can people deny Christ's deity? It has to be spiritual deception!

[James Banta]

Actually, Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the mediator between us and God. Look it up in the Bible.

You have just pointed out two things that Jesus is, could there be other things He is? Is He Wonderful? Is He the Councilor? Is He the Mighty God the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace? Is He the Lord? Is He Savior? You seem to be missing a lot of things that the Bible teaches that He is..

So what is this that He is called the Mighty God? And how many true and living Gods does the Bible teach us exist? ONE!!! No where is all the Bible is there one single word about there being more than one true God.. And yet Jesus is referred to as that God.. So while I see you are denying the divinity of Jesus I hear Joseph Smith saying that Jesus is God.. Yes, he taught that Jesus was one of three true Gods never the less even Smith had to admit that Jesus is a God.. All you will tell me that He is the Son of God the mediator between God and man..

I am believing that you believe He holds those positions because He is literally the direct offspring of God in the flesh not because of being born spiritually in the preexistence? But to you the Father is the one true and living God for this world, He and He alone? Jesus nor the Holy Spirit is God? You just believe in God the Father and in Jesus who is God's Son but is not God and you believe in the Holy Ghost who is what? A nothing without any credentials as being anything to God but His child born to Him in His preexistant form? Isn't Satan then His equal since that is all he is? That he is a spirit that has no tangible body? Tell me if He is not God as the Bible tell us He is (Acts 5:3-4).. what is He? Why is lying to Him, lying to God? If He isn't God it wouldn't be no worse than lying to me, or for that matter his equal, Satan.. Come on now make sense of this, you quote two of the positions that Jesus holds and ignore many many others.. You completely ignore the Holy Spirit to the point that it looks like He doesn't matter to you or the LDS church at all.. I know of several duties and position that He holds, but I would never deny that He is my Lord and my God..

It really looks like this is a hard place for the LDS to explain to themselves never mind be able to explain it to others.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

You have just pointed out two things that Jesus is, could there be other things He is?

Yes, but He is not His own Father.


So what is this that He is called the Mighty God?
He is the God of Israel, but His Father in Heaven is supposed to be the God of Christians. You guys blew it when you rejected His Father as your God.


No where is all the Bible is there one single word about there being more than one true God..
You may be right about that.


And yet Jesus is referred to as that God..
You are wrong about that. Of the 3 Persons of the "trinity," the Person who Jesus identifies as being the only true God is His Father in Heaven.


So while I see you are denying the divinity of Jesus
If you think you see that, then you need gl***es.


I hear Joseph Smith saying that Jesus is God.. Yes, he taught that Jesus was one of three true Gods never the less even Smith had to admit that Jesus is a God..
I think that is fairly accurate.


All you will tell me that He is the Son of God the mediator between God and man..
I am relying on the Bible for that info. Is there a problem with it?
Whether there are 2 deities or 2000 deities out there, to us Christians there is only one God--Jesus' Father. And to us there is one Lord--Jesus Christ, "the Son of God," as He called Himself.



I am believing that you believe He holds those positions because He is literally the direct offspring of God in the flesh not because of being born spiritually in the preexistence? But to you the Father is the one true and living God for this world, He and He alone?
That's what the Bible seems to teach--John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ."


Jesus nor the Holy Spirit is God?
They are deities, too.


Why is lying to Him, lying to God?
Because whatever the Holy Spirit knows, The Father also knows. They have a pretty close relationship. Whatever your spirit communicates to the Holy Spirit through prayer, for example, gets communicated to the Father.


It really looks like this is a hard place for the LDS to explain
It wasn't difficult.

[Apologette]

What sacrifice for Joseph Smith would be too great for you to make, Jeff?

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149978]Yes, but He is not His own Father.

I am saying that Jesus is and has always been God.. Jesus was not begotten the same way our natural children are begotten. There was no uniting of male and female cells since God is an invisible spirit that has no body of flesh and bone.. This was a creative act of God.. Of GOD, and who is God? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is God! Each of these points is completely Biblical and you know it.. One of the ti tles of Jesus is the Son of God. He has many others, even the Son of man.. Does that mean that Jesus is ONLY the son of man? If Jesus is God as the Bible teaches He is what does that say to you? It means that Jesus is the creator of His own mortal body.. After all the Bible does teach that He created ALL things visible and invisible.. Last time I read the Bible the disciples had no problem seeing the Lord's mortal body..


He is the God of Israel, but His Father in Heaven is supposed to be the God of Christians. You guys blew it when you rejected His Father as your God.

After all this time you still don't know who the God of the Christian Church is? He is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. Each of these Persons are refereed to as God in the New Testament. While each is God, They are one God.. There are not two or three separate Gods that are the God of different times. The Bible, even Jesus in the Bible teaches that the Lord our God is one Lord (Mark 12:29). Never is it taught that there is a different God for the OT than is taught in the NT.. I have no idea where you are coming up with that idea but it sure isn't taught in the Bible.. The Bible teaches that God doesn't change (Mal 3:6)..

And why do we teach that there is one God? Because the Bible is so clear that the Lord our God is one Lord.. That God, who knows all things, doesn't know about the existence of any other true and living Gods. We are taught That God is God and besides Him there is no Savior ( Isaiah 43:11).. Instead of trying to find ways around these statements even to the point of ignoring them, the Christian Church just believes Him..

There are not three Gods. Jesus is God having been with God from the beginning (John 1:1). We are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.. So that means that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is God.. This is not a Holy Quorum of Holy beings with the Father being the one and only God among them.. No, instead this is one Holy Being that is manifest to mankind in three Persons.. Each Person being fully God..


You may be right about that.

I MAY be right about that.. I AM right about that! The Bible is clear that there is ONE GOD not three.. It is also clear that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.. And as it teaches that it still teaches us that God is one Lord..


You are wrong about that. Of the 3 Persons of the "trinity," the Person who Jesus identifies as being the only true God is His Father in Heaven.

So if you insist that that is the only p***age that counts in identifying the nature of the true God you deny that Jesus is God! I believe that the Father is the only true God so that verse is completely correct. But I also believe that Jesus is the only true God, and while I do that I believe that the Holy Spirit is the ONLY TRUE GOD. Because they are one God, not three as Smith taught.. Is the Father not Lord because Jesus is said to be Lord in that same context? That is outside responsibility.. You still have a problem in that Jesus IS identified in the Scripture as God.. Look at the scripture for yourself.. Jesus is called God in John 1:1. He claims to be YHWH in John 8:58. Did not YHWH call Himself God in Exodus 3:6 saying that "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Therefore YHWH is God and Jesus did use that name in reference to Himself..

As the rich man called Him "Good Master" Jesus asked why he called Him Good. That there is one that is Good and that is God (Luke 18:19). He couldn't get this man to proclaim Him as God since he loved his wealth more than he loved God. And yet when Thomas saw His wounds and could see that Jesus had been resurrected, Jesus accepted His worship as Thomas called Him his Lord and his God (John 20:28).. There must be something true about Jesus being God.. You just confirmed in your post that Joseph Smith said that Jesus is one of the God's of this world, and yet you deny that He is God. How can you question the teaching of your own prophet? If he was lying about that he could have been lying about the first vision.. If he was lying about that then there is no divine calling of Smith's mission to restore the Church.


If you think you see that, then you need gl***es.

So you deny that Jesus is the only true God but you embrace His divinity? Just how does that work? God tells us that before him or after Him no other God is formed.. Since the LDS teach that the Father was God and formed the Spirit of Jesus with one of His wives, how is it that Jesus can be a God.. How can He be divine? (Isaiah 43:10)



I think that is fairly accurate.

If I am accurate about that how can you come alone and strip Godhood away from Jesus even after your prophet proclaimed Him to be at least a God?


I am relying on the Bible for that info. Is there a problem with it?
Whether there are 2 deities or 2000 deities out there, to us Christians there is only one God--Jesus' Father. And to us there is one Lord--Jesus Christ, "the Son of God," as He called Himself.

As I have told you before, the Bible also teaches us that Jesus is God.. It teaches us that the Holy Spirit is God. AND it teaches that the Father is God.. Since they are the one true God it is not incorrect to call the Father the Only True God and Jesus the Mediator. Those are correct statements. But it is also not incorrect to call Jesus God, as Thomas did. Knowing all along that the Lord our God is ONE LORD.. As I said before the God that spoke though the prophet Isaiah said that He (Who Knows all things) doesn't know that any other Gods like Him exist. (Isaiah 44:8) How did Smith or Jeff learn more than God knows? Because The Father,Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one God it is totally proper to call any of them our only true God.. That is what this p***age is doing.. That is what you must do IF YOU BELIEVE AS SMITH DID THAT JESUS IS GOD.. If you deny Godhood to Jesus then you must believe this verse excludes all other Persons other than the Father.. Either that or you are saying that Jesus is a false god.. Is that your doctrines on His nature?


That's what the Bible seems to teach--John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ."[/QUOTE

Yes the Bible teaches that, so the the only true God is vitally important to our eternal life.. Who is that true God.. It is the Being that the Bible calls God.. Since the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ALL called God in the scripture, then the only true God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is the one that God sent.. Without knowing that God there is no eternal life, without know that Jesus is the one that was sent there is no eternal life.. That has to be the proper way of reading this verse IF JESUS IS GOD..

[QUOTE]They are deities, too.

But according to your doctrine there must be a difference between being a deity and being God?


Because whatever the Holy Spirit knows, The Father also knows. They have a pretty close relationship. Whatever your spirit communicates to the Holy Spirit through prayer, for example, gets communicated to the Father.

But the question still persists. Is the Holy Spirit God, or is He merely a servant of the Father who is the only one of the three persons called God in the Bible that is actually God.. If He isn't how is it that you deny the teaching of the Bible that He is God.. If He is how is it that there are more than one true God, when the Bible teaches that there is but one? Is it because that God word is a lie in certain places? If that is the case then how can we trust anything it teaches at all? We have no idea where it is a lie and where it explains truth.. We are therefore lost having no ***urance that God is even there..


It wasn't difficult.

It must be because you haven't even come close to explaining.. IHS jim