'Twas the Night Before Smithmas!

[Apologette]

'Twas the night before Smithmas, and all through the temple,
Not a cumelon was creeping, or a tapir, (for ex-emple!)
The garments were hung out to dry in the air,
But fortunately for us, we have two extra pairs.

The children were stashed at Gramma's homestead,
While Mom and Pop got dunked once again for the dead!
And Mom in her veil, and I in my old bakers' cap,
Had just about finished another endowment wrap!

When beyond the temple grounds I heard a big clatter
Even sprang from my seat to see about the chatter;
To the pentagram window I flew like an eagle,
Peered out to see some Christians - they were legal!

The icky tall towers cast a shadow below
But still I could see someone I did know.
For what to unbelieving eyes should appear,
But my eldest daughter and hubby, my greatest fear!

With signs held high, walking about and about
And above the din, I could even hear them shout!
Rapidly, quickly, their sentences came,
And they shouted each "profit", yes even by name!

"Now Smith, now Young, now Kimball and Monson!
Come on Woodruff, and Taylor, and every man's son!
To the top of the temple, to the top of the spire!
Each man can explain why he did conspire"!

"Joseph Lied"! They shouted as the leaves began to fly,
We've met the Tanners, and discovered the lies!
So come out and face us, bring the whole crew!
Hinckley and "Fielding," and McConkie, too!

And then in a while, I perceived on the roof!
That Moroni was laughing, banging his hoof!
And as I turned back to see my dear wife,
I saw her run and cry, "getting out with my life."

The wiggling hand dropped from the eerie veil,
And soon the whole crowd ran out, 'cept the frail!
Some hobbled along, they didn't look back,
'Til there was just me, and Satan in black!

Old Slew Foot's eyes flashed, as he called after the flee-ers
"Ha, you fools won't escape, you can't be "believers."
You see, you've covenanted Joe Smith to obey,
If you don't, why then fools, I'll rule the day!

But the stump of one sign still stood on it's pole,
And it's words could be seen, even thru the cold!
"Joseph has lied, no first vision , he's a boaster!
Moronoi never existed, and Smith's an impostor!

The Christians rejoiced as the Mormons streamed out,
And I couldn't help hearing them put up a shout!
With a smile and a prayer, they welcomed the lost,
And told them the Gospel, Good News in the frost!

And they spoke God's Word, going straight to their work,
Filling hearts with hope, and healing the hurt!
They p***ed out Bibles, and with tears in their eyes,
Praised the God of the Universe, who vanquishes lies!

And with hope's spark in my heart, I ran out to see,
My family who cared to love, love mother and me!
And I heard them exclaim, as they prayed so intense!
"Good bye Joseph Smith, and to Satan, get thee hence"!

[Snow Patrol]

Hey Apologette, please do yourself and the rest of the world a favor and don't ever lie again saying that you do this out of love for the LDS. By this you clearly show anybody interested enough to read through it that you really don't respect the LDS at all. No cl***.

[Apologette]

Hey Apologette, please do yourself and the rest of the world a favor and don't ever lie again saying that you do this out of love for the LDS. By this you clearly show anybody interested enough to read through it that you really don't respect the LDS at all. No cl***.

I have no respect at all for a cult that lies it's way into the homes of "contacts" and lies its way into peoples' minds by pretending to be something they are not....a restoration of Christianity. However, as for Mormons themselves - they are victims of Joseph Smith, and those who followed him and are in power. They are deceived, apart from God, without hope unless they repent and come to Christ.

[Snow Patrol]

I have no respect at all for a cult that lies it's way into the homes of "contacts" and lies its way into peoples' minds by pretending to be something they are not....a restoration of Christianity. However, as for Mormons themselves - they are victims of Joseph Smith, and those who followed him and are in power. They are deceived, apart from God, without hope unless they repent and come to Christ.

Nonetheless, still no common decency in your example of supposed "Christian" love. It is simply pitiful that at this glorious time of year the filth that you present for the cause of your christ just shows the state of your heart. I'm a little surprised that other "Christians" haven't recognized the sleaze and asked that you remove it.

Anyway, for all that read this forum, look at the type of posts that come from those who really are anti-lds person. Because someone who truly loved their neighbor, LDS, would not post something like this.

[Apologette]

Nonetheless, still no common decency in your example of supposed "Christian" love. It is simply pitiful that at this glorious time of year the filth that you present for the cause of your christ just shows the state of your heart. I'm a little surprised that other "Christians" haven't recognized the sleaze and asked that you remove it.

Anyway, for all that read this forum, look at the type of posts that come from those who really are anti-lds person. Because someone who truly loved their neighbor, LDS, would not post something like this.

Merry Smithmas! Hopefully one day you'll be celebrating "Merry Christmas."

[neverending]

'Twas the night before Smithmas, and all through the temple,
Not a cumelon was creeping, or a tapir, (for ex-emple!)
The garments were hung out to dry in the air,
But fortunately for us, we have two extra pairs.

The children were stashed at Gramma's homestead,
While Mom and Pop got dunked once again for the dead!
And Mom in her veil, and I in my old bakers' cap,
Had just about finished another endowment wrap!

When beyond the temple grounds I heard a big clatter
Even sprang from my seat to see about the chatter;
To the pentagram window I flew like an eagle,
Peered out to see some Christians - they were legal!

The icky tall towers cast a shadow below
But still I could see someone I did know.
For what to unbelieving eyes should appear,
But my eldest daughter and hubby, my greatest fear!

With signs held high, walking about and about
And above the din, I could even hear them shout!
Rapidly, quickly, their sentences came,
And they shouted each "profit", yes even by name!

"Now Smith, now Young, now Kimball and Monson!
Come on Woodruff, and Taylor, and every man's son!
To the top of the temple, to the top of the spire!
Each man can explain why he did conspire"!

"Joseph Lied"! They shouted as the leaves began to fly,
We've met the Tanners, and discovered the lies!
So come out and face us, bring the whole crew!
Hinckley and "Fielding," and McConkie, too!

And then in a while, I perceived on the roof!
That Moroni was laughing, banging his hoof!
And as I turned back to see my dear wife,
I saw her run and cry, "getting out with my life."

The wiggling hand dropped from the eerie veil,
And soon the whole crowd ran out, 'cept the frail!
Some hobbled along, they didn't look back,
'Til there was just me, and Satan in black!

Old Slew Foot's eyes flashed, as he called after the flee-ers
"Ha, you fools won't escape, you can't be "believers."
You see, you've covenanted Joe Smith to obey,
If you don't, why then fools, I'll rule the day!

But the stump of one sign still stood on it's pole,
And it's words could be seen, even thru the cold!
"Joseph has lied, no first vision , he's a boaster!
Moronoi never existed, and Smith's an impostor!

The Christians rejoiced as the Mormons streamed out,
And I couldn't help hearing them put up a shout!
With a smile and a prayer, they welcomed the lost,
And told them the Gospel, Good News in the frost!

And they spoke God's Word, going straight to their work,
Filling hearts with hope, and healing the hurt!
They p***ed out Bibles, and with tears in their eyes,
Praised the God of the Universe, who vanquishes lies!

And with hope's spark in my heart, I ran out to see,
My family who cared to love, love mother and me!
And I heard them exclaim, as they prayed so intense!
"Good bye Joseph Smith, and to Satan, get thee hence"!

Apologette,
Having been born and raised LDS and my father was a temple worker for over 7 yrs. I was sorry to see this supposed poem. I don't think we can be taken seriously if we are making fun of something that the LDS hold dear. Kind of like someone making fun of our crosses or Pastors wearing robes. Maybe you could delete this thread.

[Apologette]

Apologette,
Having been born and raised LDS and my father was a temple worker for over 7 yrs. I was sorry to see this supposed poem. I don't think we can be taken seriously if we are making fun of something that the LDS hold dear. Kind of like someone making fun of our crosses or Pastors wearing robes. Maybe you could delete this thread.
Sorry if you take it that way, but it is the end of the poem that is intended to be the teaching. It was intended to vindicate those who stand outside the temple and protest what's going on inside. I consider the temple rites of Mormonism to be occult, and participation in them spiritually dangerous. I also recall that its rites mocked Christian preachers as money-grubbing servants of Satan. So sorry your father was involved with these occult rites, however my father (and other family members) was involved in Masonry, which I also consider to be occult. These things need to be cast out in Jesus' Name. Hereditary bondage can be overcome by the Blood of the Lamb.

[Ma'am]

Hey Apologette, please do yourself and the rest of the world a favor and don't ever lie again saying that you do this out of love for the LDS. By this you clearly show anybody interested enough to read through it that you really don't respect the LDS at all. No cl***.

Joseph Smith didn't respect orthodox Christianity, either. Did he have cl***?

[James Banta]

Joseph Smith didn't respect orthodox Christianity, either. Did he have cl***?

Respect of another's beliefs is not required of the LDS people.. After all ever other religion but theirs is part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.. Since mormonism is the only true church, it p***es that all others are false.. After all right in their scripture we read:

1 Nephi 14:10
There are only two churches, one of the Lamb of God and one of the devil

Christian insist that they are NOT part of or ***ociated with the LDS church.. That would mean that they would perceive Christians as being part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil..

One of the more contemporary leaders of the LDS church has said:

This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 164-165)

Is that not evidence that they have no respect for any other religion.. They will act as through they are part of the lager ecumenical community when the facts are they look down their noses at all other churches as teaching error! Smith's history tell the whole story as his Jesus told him that all the churches are WRONG.. Even their Jesus has no cl*** according to Snow's definition that respect is required to have cl***.. The mormon Jesus must have had no love for mankind allowing more than 1700 years to p*** before repairing the damage done by men to the Church of the first century. Didn't he care about those people? Were they cursed by God? The same as to why millions of Blacks before 1978 were cursed by God because of the color of their skin? Tell me who is recorded in God's word to be the first Gentile to hear the Gospel? A BLACK MAN!

The cheep mormon copy of the Real Jesus is a very hateful, cl***less, man made, man invented god.. The doctrines and teachings of mormonism, as well as those that invented them deserve no respect.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Respect of another's beliefs is not required of the LDS people.. After all ever other religion but theirs is part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.. Since mormonism is the only true church, it p***es that all others are false.. After all right in their scripture we read:

1 Nephi 14:10
There are only two churches, one of the Lamb of God and one of the devil

Christian insist that they are NOT part of or ***ociated with the LDS church.. That would mean that they would perceive Christians as being part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil..

One of the more contemporary leaders of the LDS church has said:

This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 164-165)

Is that not evidence that they have no respect for any other religion.. They will act as through they are part of the lager ecumenical community when the facts are they look down their noses at all other churches as teaching error! Smith's history tell the whole story as his Jesus told him that all the churches are WRONG.. Even their Jesus has no cl*** according to Snow's definition that respect is required to have cl***.. The mormon Jesus must have had no love for mankind allowing more than 1700 years to p*** before repairing the damage done by men to the Church of the first century. Didn't he care about those people? Were they cursed by God? The same as to why millions of Blacks before 1978 were cursed by God because of the color of their skin? Tell me who is recorded in God's word to be the first Gentile to hear the Gospel? A BLACK MAN!

The cheep mormon copy of the Real Jesus is a very hateful, cl***less, man made, man invented god.. The doctrines and teachings of mormonism, as well as those that invented them deserve no respect.. IHS jim

I do try and separate the mormon from the mormonism, it is not easy at times, but the few LDSinc. Friends I have agree we do not talk religion, and it works.

[Snow Patrol]

Respect of another's beliefs is not required of the LDS people..

Just because most of the LDS may not be posting at this time doesn't mean we are going to put up with blantant lies. This is so false how can you even post this with a straight face? At least your wife had the decency to acknowledge when something is unnecessarily offensive.

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

You guys need to make up your mind on your criticisms because when we do work with people of other faiths we get criticized for that. An example is when LDS help a Sikh temple, was it?


After all ever other religion but theirs is part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.. Since mormonism is the only true church, it p***es that all others are false.. After all right in their scripture we read:

1 Nephi 14:10
There are only two churches, one of the Lamb of God and one of the devil

Christian insist that they are NOT part of or ***ociated with the LDS church.. That would mean that they would perceive Christians as being part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil..

One of the more contemporary leaders of the LDS church has said:

This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 164-165)

Is that not evidence that they have no respect for any other religion..

Absolutely not. Just like when you say "anyone who isn't Christian isn't saved or going to heaven" does THAT mean you don't respect any other religions.

What a hypocrit.

[Apologette]

Joseph Smith didn't respect orthodox Christianity, either. Did he have cl***?

The Mormons will never, ever say a word against their idol and god, Joe Smith.

[Apologette]

Just because most of the LDS may not be posting at this time doesn't mean we are going to put up with blantant lies. This is so false how can you even post this with a straight face? At least your wife had the decency to acknowledge when something is unnecessarily offensive.

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

You guys need to make up your mind on your criticisms because when we do work with people of other faiths we get criticized for that. An example is when LDS help a Sikh temple, was it?



Absolutely not. Just like when you say "anyone who isn't Christian isn't saved or going to heaven" does THAT mean you don't respect any other religions.

What a hypocrit.
Hypocrisy? How about your idol and god, Joe Smith claiming on the one hand that he only had one wife, and on the other hand being married to over 34 women? That's fine right?

[Apologette]

Hey Apologette, please do yourself and the rest of the world a favor and don't ever lie again saying that you do this out of love for the LDS. By this you clearly show anybody interested enough to read through it that you really don't respect the LDS at all. No cl***.

I love all those poor targets out there who YOU and your cohorts are leading to eternal destruction. Why do Mormons believe that lying and concealing the truth about Mormonism and its history is noble? I believe it's ignoble!

[Snow Patrol]

The mormon Jesus must have had no love for mankind allowing more than 1700 years to p*** before repairing the damage done by men to the Church of the first century. Didn't he care about those people? Were they cursed by God?


Really? Don't you believe that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their Savior is doomed to eternal torment? Please tell me how newborns, mentally retarded, or anyone that has lived in an area that has never heard the word Jesus have the chance to accept Christ? Doesn't He care about those people? Were they cursed by God? You religion does not allow for exceptions. Maybe you should slow down in typing your criticism of everything LDS because you are showing your hypocrisy over and over.

[James Banta]

[Snow Patrol;151149]Just because most of the LDS may not be posting at this time doesn't mean we are going to put up with blantant lies. This is so false how can you even post this with a straight face? At least your wife had the decency to acknowledge when something is unnecessarily offensive.

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

You guys need to make up your mind on your criticisms because when we do work with people of other faiths we get criticized for that. An example is when LDS help a Sikh temple, was it?

Right here on this forum I have had LDS tell me that "We just have more revelation".. isn't such a statement saying that the LDS church is superior to all other churches? How many times have you said in your heart and with your lips that The LDS church is the "Only True Church"? And you tell me that this isn't calling all other churches false?

Is that the kind of RESPECT you are offering? Superiority and out and out conceit in believing that only mormonism is right and everyone else is false.. You do say "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." Then you send tens of thousands of young missionaries into the world with the message that ONLY mormonism is TRUE, therefore every other church is FALSE"? A Christian missionary has one message that message is Jesus.. His place in the universe (He is God), and what He accomplished as God (Offering us salvation by His grace through faith in Him)..

There is a huge difference in proclaiming that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life that no one comes to the Father but by Him, and a church adding their baptism, their authority, their church membership, and the acceptance of their leaders to the simple qualifications Jesus gave us, "Believe in Me".. We don't believe that anyone that denies the Jesus of the Bible are His children.. If someone isn't in Jesus they are in their sin and God's wrath abides on them. Does mormonism see it as something the Church should do to help or condone the idolatry found in other religions? Those aren't my private teachings that is the word of God.. Inventing your own Jesus writing your own gospel is what is hypocritical. Supporting nonchristian religions is plain wrong.. That is something mormonism does while the Christian Church will never do.. Unless you can show that your Jesus is THE JESUS you are outside the family of God.. You hold an idol to be your god..

The Bible say that He is God. That God alone is God.. He is One Lord.. God teaches us in His word that no other God not one formed before Him, and not one formed after Him is God.. The Jesus you call god was created after the Father was already God. Because of that God tells us that such a being can't be God.. You can do two things about that p***age (Isaiah 43:10). One is to deny it.. The other is to change it's message.. I have seen that attempt and it still doesn't explain how Jesus and the Father are both the God(s) of this world but became God(s) at different times.. I doubt you can understand that p***age in any way that makes sense to mormonism. I do wish you would try..



Absolutely not. Just like when you say "anyone who isn't Christian isn't saved or going to heaven" does THAT mean you don't respect any other religions.

What a hypocrit.

No I have no respect for false teachers, or their false religions..

This is great.. Because I believe God's word I am a hypocrite.. That sounds just like the TV Channel A&E condemning one of their channels stars for holding christian beliefs. Saying that He believed that unconfessed sin will **** the sinners to hell.. Yes you are now totally of the world, You call the teaching of God through His word, evil and the evil of the world (Accepting all men as good) good..

Here is your verse

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

That is you in the denial of God's word.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Hypocrisy? How about your idol and god, Joe Smith claiming on the one hand that he only had one wife, and on the other hand being married to over 34 women? That's fine right?

Can't you see where I got the defense of the exclusiveness of the Church? It was all biblical.. All directly from God not from me.. Snow is calling God's word Hypocrisy.. That is calling God a liar.. That sounds like serious sin to me.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Right here on this forum I have had LDS tell me that "We just have more revelation".. isn't such a statement saying that the LDS church is superior to all other churches? How many times have you said in your heart and with your lips that The LDS church is the "Only True Church"? And you tell me that this isn't calling all other churches false? Is that the kind of RESPECT you are offering? Superiority and out and out conceit in believing that only mormonism is right and everyone else id false.. You do say "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." Then you send tens of thousands of young missionaries into the world with the message that ONLY mormonism is TRUE, therefore your church is FALSE"? A Christian missionary has one message that message is Jesus.. His place in the universe (He is God), and what He accomplished as God (Offering us salvation by His grace through faith in Him)..

There is a huge difference in proclaiming that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life that no one comes to the Father but by Him, and a church adding their baptism, their authority, their church membership, and the acceptance of their leaders to the simple qualifications Jesus gave us, "Believe in Me".. We don't believe that anyone that denies the Jesus of the Bible are His children.. If someone isn't in Jesus they are in their sin and God's wrath abides on them.. Those are my private teaching that is the word of God.. Inventing your own Jesus writing your own gospel is what is hypocritical.. Unless you can show that your Jesus is THE Jesus you are outside the family of God.. You hold an idol to be your god..

The Bible say that He is God. That God alone is God.. He is One Lord.. God teaches us in His word that no other God not one formed before Him, and not one formed after Him is God.. The Jesus you call god was created after the Father was already God. Because of that God tells us that such a being can't be God.. You can do two things about that p***age (Isaiah 43:10). One is to deny it.. The other is to change it's message.. I have seen that attempt and it still doesn't explain how Jesus and the Father are both the God(s) of this world but became God(s) at different times.. I doubt you can understand that p***age in any way that makes sense to mormonism. I do wish you would try..




This is great.. Because I believe God's word I am a hypocrite.. That sounds just like the TV Channel A&E condemning one of their channels stars for holding christian beliefs. Saying that He believed that unconfessed sin will **** the sinners to hell.. Yes you are now totally of the world, You call the teaching of God through His word, evil and the evil of the world (Accepting all men as good) good..

Here is your verse

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

That is you in the denial of God's word.. IHS jim

Nope, you are wrong. I'm calling you the hypocrit. You can try and justify away all you want, but it obvious to anyone with intellectual integrity your hypocrisy.

[Erundur]

The Mormons will never, ever say a word against their idol and god, Joe Smith.
We have no idol and our God is not "Joe Smith". Stop lying, Apologette.

[Apologette]

Really? Don't you believe that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their Savior is doomed to eternal torment? Please tell me how newborns, mentally retarded, or anyone that has lived in an area that has never heard the word Jesus have the chance to accept Christ? Doesn't He care about those people? Were they cursed by God? You religion does not allow for exceptions. Maybe you should slow down in typing your criticism of everything LDS because you are showing your hypocrisy over and over.

Do a study on the Jewish Atonement sacrifices and sins of innocence. After that, actually read the Bible and get your answers.

[Apologette]

We have no idol and our God is not "Joe Smith". Stop lying, Apologette.

"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead...and if you don't like it, you must lump it!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (http://forums.carm.org/vbb/mormon-books.html#sermons), p.363).

[James Banta]

[Snow Patrol;151154]Really? Don't you believe that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their Savior is doomed to eternal torment?

Yes I do because that is what God has taught us.. It didn't come from me..

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mormonism is much different than that.. Believing Jesus isn't enough: The prophet Herold B Lee said "No man can accept Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, no man can accept this as His church, the Church of Jesus Christ, unless he can accept Joseph Smith as God's mouthpiece and the restorer of His work in these latter days. (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, [1996], p. 371 as quoted in Ensign (Dec. 2003). There is part of the Hypocrisy of the LDS church.. Adding holding faith in Joseph Smith as a prerequisite for the ability to hold faith in Jesus.. That is totally anti biblical. There is no such teaching that anyone must trust any man to be able to receive faith in Jesus and thereby God's grace.. This is just another lie perpetrated by the LDS church..

I have always said I believe the Bible. I am not being a hypocrite when I show that I do..


Please tell me how newborns, mentally retarded, or anyone that has lived in an area that has never heard the word Jesus have the chance to accept Christ? Doesn't He care about those people? Were they cursed by God? You religion does not allow for exceptions. Maybe you should slow down in typing your criticism of everything LDS because you are showing your hypocrisy over and over.

Firstly the babies, and those still children if only because of a mental handicap Jesus said "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." If Jesus tells us that it is that way in His Kingdom, I don't deny the teaching.. After all it is Biblical.. I don't believe mormonism is wrong in their teaching along these lines..

Next those that live in an area that has never heard the word Jesus have the chance to accept Christ. What does God tell us about them?

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

You don't like that take it up with God.. After all that is His word on the matter not mine.. I just believe Him, are you willing to do so? IHS jim

[Apologette]

Yes I do because that is what God has taught us.. It didn't come from me..

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mormonism is much different than that.. Believing Jesus isn't enough: The prophet Herold B Lee said "No man can accept Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, no man can accept this as His church, the Church of Jesus Christ, unless he can accept Joseph Smith as God's mouthpiece and the restorer of His work in these latter days. (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, [1996], p. 371 as quoted in Ensign (Dec. 2003). There is part of the Hypocrisy of the LDS church.. Adding holding faith in Joseph Smith as a prerequisite for the ability to hold faith in Jesus.. That is totally anti biblical. There is no such teaching that anyone must trust any man to be able to receive faith in Jesus and thereby God's grace.. This is just another lie perpetrated by the LDS church..

I have always said I believe the Bible. I am not being a hypocrite when I show that I do..



Firstly the babies, and those still children if only because of a mental handicap Jesus said "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." If Jesus tells us that it is that way in His Kingdom, I don't deny the teaching.. After all it is Biblical.. I don't believe mormonism is wrong in their teaching along these lines..

Next those that live in an area that has never heard the word Jesus have the chance to accept Christ. What does God tell us about them?

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

You don't like that take it up with God.. After all that is His word on the matter not mine.. I just believe Him, are you willing to do so? IHS jim
Jim I've told these Mormons about the Atonement covering sins of innocence many, many times. They feign ignorance of the Christian view. I don't bother with them in this regard anymore since this would be casting pearls over and over to those who trod on them. They simply use it as a diversion tactic anytime they can't think of anything else.

[James Banta]

Nope, you are wrong. I'm calling you the hypocrit. You can try and justify away all you want, but it obvious to anyone with intellectual integrity your hypocrisy.


Know what.. You don't matter.. I have shown where my beliefs are rooted.. You call me a hypocrite for believing those teaching what do you call the author of those words? You have made a huge step in calling Good evil.. You have now added God to your list of hypocrites.. Good ***.. Let me see.. God is not the greatest being that has ever existed because He himself has a God.. Jesus is the creation of that created God so he is even less of a God that the being He calls Father.. and now those that believe His word are hypocrites for doing so.. Yes indeed you do call Good evil.. I am the hypocrite for believing God, and you are not even though you doubt Him.. Yeah that makes sense.. But since you are LDS you know more than just a Christian. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Know what.. You don't matter.. I have shown where my beliefs are rooted.. You call me a hypocrite for believing those teaching what do you call the author of those words? You have made a huge step in calling Good evil.. You have now added God to your list of hypocrites.. Good ***.. Let me see.. God is not the greatest being that has ever existed because He himself has a God.. Jesus is the creation of that created God so he is even less of a God that the being He calls Father.. and now those that believe His word are hypocrites for doing so.. Yes indeed you do call Good evil.. I am the hypocrite for believing God, and you are not even though you doubt Him.. Yeah that makes sense.. But since you are LDS you know more than just a Christian. IHS jim

I call you a hypocrit for believing one thing and then ridiculing others for believing the same thing. It matters not where they get their beliefs. I can't say I believe Obama is a bad President and then make fun of you for believing Obama is a bad President for a different reason. That is being hypocritical. You can try to write this off any way you want, but still when you hold one belief and then ridicule someone else for holding that same belief then you are a hypocrit. Plain and simple.

[Erundur]

"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead...and if you don't like it, you must lump it!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (http://forums.carm.org/vbb/mormon-books.html#sermons), p.363).
Someone familiar with the Bible would recognize this as a reference to Exodus 7:1, but it doesn't surprise me in the least that you would try to twist this quote to rationalize your dishonesty. It is an unquestionable, objective fact that Joseph Smith is not our God, and every time you say it you are lying.

[Apologette]

Someone familiar with the Bible would recognize this as a reference to Exodus 7:1, but it doesn't surprise me in the least that you would try to twist this quote to rationalize your dishonesty. It is an unquestionable, objective fact that Joseph Smith is not our God, and every time you say it you are lying.

God called Aaron to speak for Moses; Joseph Smith called HIMSELF, and shook his fist in God's face, by claiming to be god to the Mormons!

[Apologette]

Mormons regarded Joe Smith and Brigham Young as gods on earth:

“[Heber C. Kimball] declared to the people that Brigham Young was his God, and their God, and the only God they would ever see if they did not obey him: ‘Joseph Smith was God to the inhabitants of the earth when he was amongst us, and Brigham is God now.’ This strain was caught up and reiterated by many of the elders, from Orson Hyde, the president of the twelve apostles, down to the most ignorant teacher, and to question it openly was to be put under the ban.”

- T.B.H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints, 1873, 1904 edition, p. 294;

[Erundur]

Joseph Smith called HIMSELF, and shook his fist in God's face, by claiming to be god to the Mormons!
No he didn't; you just made that up.

[RealFakeHair]

No he didn't; you just made that up.

Wait a minute. You're questioning Apologetter, over makeing something up and you never question Joseph Smith jr. and his imaginary mind?

[Erundur]

Wait a minute. You're questioning Apologetter, over makeing something up and you never question Joseph Smith jr. and his imaginary mind?
Joseph Smith is not posting here; Apologette is.

[Apologette]

No he didn't; you just made that up.

blah, blah, blah. Smith said he was your god. And he was right.

[Apologette]

Wait a minute. You're questioning Apologetter, over makeing something up and you never question Joseph Smith jr. and his imaginary mind?

Just imagine if they questioned the adultery angel that Smith says threatened to kill him if he didn't take a bunch of women to bed!

[James Banta]

I call you a hypocrit for believing one thing and then ridiculing others for believing the same thing. It matters not where they get their beliefs. I can't say I believe Obama is a bad President and then make fun of you for believing Obama is a bad President for a different reason. That is being hypocritical. You can try to write this off any way you want, but still when you hold one belief and then ridicule someone else for holding that same belief then you are a hypocrit. Plain and simple.

So you don't believe that the LDS church has more revelation than other churches? You don't believe that the LDS church is superior to all other churches? You don't believe that the LDS church is the "Only True Church"? I deny all of that.. I don't see that that the LDS church has anything more than false teachings.. So where is hypocrisy in my words?

Does the LDS church not send tens of thousands of young missionaries into the world with the message that ONLY mormonism is TRUE, therefore all other churches are FALSE?

I never said anything about the President, good or bad.. I never criticized mormonism for being false only to call it true.. No Christian Church believes that baptism, or membership in their church provides salvation.. That is a teaching of mormonism.. I did make one error in my post.. I missed the n't on the word are in this statement "Those are my private teaching that is the word of God" It should read "Those aren't my private teachings, that is the word of God". If that is what you are pointing out thank you for correcting my weak typing skills.. I fixed it and added a bit more to it.. Reread it if your want.. IHS jim

[John T]

Just imagine if they questioned the adultery angel that Smith says threatened to kill him if he didn't take a bunch of women to bed!

Apologette has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

Wazzup?

[Apologette]

Apologette has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

Wazzup? Okay, I'm so popular. I'll fix it.

[John T]

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Erundur http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151159#post151159)

We have no idol and our God is not "Joe Smith". Stop lying, Apologette.




"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead...and if you don't like it, you must lump it!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (http://forums.carm.org/vbb/mormon-books.html#sermons), p.363).

The character of Apologette is NOT THE ISSUE HERE.

Why do you go after her personally when all she did was to quote something from CARM. There is where the author of that quoted. therefore your argument is there, not here. Go there, sign up, and then discuss that matter THERE.

[Apologette]

I have never once read any Mormon who took exception to Smith's lifestyle and his predatory stalking of women and young girls. Apparently, as is any idol, he is above judgment. He is, in fact, god to the Mormons. They never mention Jesus (other than in p***ing). Everything is Joseph, Joseph and more Joseph. It's a sad state of affairs.

[nothead]

I have never once read any Mormon who took exception to Smith's lifestyle and his predatory stalking of women and young girls. Apparently, as is any idol, he is above judgment. He is, in fact, god to the Mormons. They never mention Jesus (other than in p***ing). Everything is Joseph, Joseph and more Joseph. It's a sad state of affairs.

Hey he was just a lusty guy. What's so bad about having 38 wives? He didn't STALK them, he made up a religion where he could HAVE THEM.

Pletty shmart fella, I gumpshun. That's a harem all right.

If he made himself God, then so did Hirohito until he had to take it back. God told Moses he would be ELOHIM to pharoah, so what's the big deal?

Hint: Hebrews had no term for 'God' as we know it now. The closest word then was ELOHIM.

You know the inherent problem with the early Mormon Church was...

If JS had 38 wives, then what happened to the men these were supposed to have normally wed? They got put to pasture? Couldn't even have children, or find some women somewhere else, because if JS didn't get all the pretty ones, then one of them OTHER big shots did...
...immediately making the Church as a WHOLE survival of the fittest, or studliest, or something....LUSTIEST??

Whoo hoo. Some guys get ALL the girls. YOU GO, Guys.

[Erundur]

blah, blah, blah. Smith said he was your god. And he was right.
lie, lie, lie. Just keep lying, and I'll keep calling you on it.

[Erundur]

The character of Apologette is NOT THE ISSUE HERE.
Then don't bring it up.


Why do you go after her personally when all she did was to quote something from CARM.
I'm going after her lie, not her.


There is where the author of that quoted. therefore your argument is there, not here. Go there, sign up, and then discuss that matter THERE.
So when Apologette brings up a topic here, I have to go to another board to discuss it? That makes perfect sense.

Or not.

[RealFakeHair]

Then don't bring it up.


I'm going after her lie, not her.

So when Apologette brings up a topic here, I have to go to another board to discuss it? That makes perfect sense.

Or not.
Come after what you believe is my lie, and let's duke it out!

[nothead]

Come after what you believe is my lie, and let's duke it out!

You can't 'duke it out.' If you punch the screen, Fake Hair still don't feel it.

You might.

Wow talk about the obvious. Make love online, not war.

whoops I got fake hair mixed up with the other one. Which is what around here anyway?

[RealFakeHair]

You can't 'duke it out.' If you punch the screen, Fake Hair still don't feel it.

You might.

Wow talk about the obvious. Make love online, not war.

whoops I got fake hair mixed up with the other one. Which is what around here anyway?

Okay, selflove person, whatever, the challenge is still on.

[Apologette]

Hey he was just a lusty guy. What's so bad about having 38 wives? He didn't STALK them, he made up a religion where he could HAVE THEM.

Pletty shmart fella, I gumpshun. That's a harem all right.

If he made himself God, then so did Hirohito until he had to take it back. God told Moses he would be ELOHIM to pharoah, so what's the big deal?

Hint: Hebrews had no term for 'God' as we know it now. The closest word then was ELOHIM.

You know the inherent problem with the early Mormon Church was...

If JS had 38 wives, then what happened to the men these were supposed to have normally wed? They got put to pasture? Couldn't even have children, or find some women somewhere else, because if JS didn't get all the pretty ones, then one of them OTHER big shots did...
...immediately making the Church as a WHOLE survival of the fittest, or studliest, or something....LUSTIEST??

Whoo hoo. Some guys get ALL the girls. YOU GO, Guys.

Well, I'm not sure if you know this, but Joe Smith "married" the wives of living Mormon husbands, and then told them to remain living with their first husbands in polyandry. The guy was a true sicko - not to mention that if an annoying pregnancy occurred. the fact that the plural wife as living with their "other" husband was a good cover. As far as his teenage wives go, the guy was a pervert, what more can I say?

[Apologette]

Then don't bring it up.


I'm going after her lie, not her.


So when Apologette brings up a topic here, I have to go to another board to discuss it? That makes perfect sense.

Or not.

Richard, I really don't care much about anything you post - I just consider the source.

[Erundur]

Come after what you believe is my lie, and let's duke it out!
Like I originally said, Apologette, it is a lie that Joseph Smith is our idol and god.

[Erundur]

Richard
Did your Protestant discernment powers tell you that I'm Richard?

[Apologette]

Did your Protestant discernment powers tell you that I'm Richard?

No, your snarky remarks.

[Erundur]

No, your snarky remarks.
Then who did your discernment powers tell you I am?

[nothead]

-

Well, I'm not sure if you know this, but Joe Smith "married" the wives of living Mormon husbands, and then told them to remain living with their first husbands in polyandry. The guy was a true sicko - not to mention that if an annoying pregnancy occurred. the fact that the plural wife as living with their "other" husband was a good cover. As far as his teenage wives go, the guy was a pervert, what more can I say?

It were a cultural thing. Many cultures marry their girls at ****rty. This in my view is natural. For men to like these girls even if older is natural too, to the FLESH.

God exhorts us to live in the spirit. Although not really PERVERTED, obviously LUST INDUCED.

Like King David. He would have been better off marrying one girl he could love deeply.

God never intended for us to have HAREMS, as nice a dream it might seem TO us.

[nothead]

Okay, selflove person, whatever, the challenge is still on.

Thought you challenged the other guy. I don't even know if you Mormon ou no Mormon. All I know is you got fake hair.

Get real.

[neverending]

-


It were a cultural thing. Many cultures marry their girls at ****rty. This in my view is natural. For men to like these girls even if older is natural too, to the FLESH.

God exhorts us to live in the spirit. Although not really PERVERTED, obviously LUST INDUCED.

Like King David. He would have been better off marrying one girl he could love deeply.

God never intended for us to have HAREMS, as nice a dream it might seem TO us.

Sure, there are cultures in this world who marry off 8 year olds to 40 somethings, does that make it RIGHT!! Your very comment here has told us all that you have the desire for sex with children, so what does that make you? A sick, pedophile! REAL MEN do NOT have desires for sex with children! And you want to use the excuse, "in the flesh." There was a culture of cannibals in Borneo, was that RIGHT too? So what I am reading here is that YOU feel it is alright for older men to marry, have sex with children? Did you know that is against the law in THIS culture?? And you don't think King David loved Bathsheba deeply? You have some very strange ideas. I can also say you don't read much in the way of news either. How about the 8 year old girl in Yemin. Story below:

September 10, 2013


According to the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/09/bride-aged-8-dies-internal-sexual-injuries-wedding-night-_n_3892892.html?just_reloaded=1) on Sept. 9, an 8-year-old Yemeni girl dies from internal injuries on her wedding night. It is believed that the girl died from a tear to her genitals and severe bleeding from a uterine rupture.
Identified only by the name Rawan, the girl died in the tribal area of Hardh in the governorate of Hajjah in northwestern Yemen which borders Saudi Arabia.
Yemeni and Kuwaiti activists are calling for the arrest of the girl's husband and her family for allowing the marriage to take place.
A local rights organization says this is not the first time a death has occurred because of a young girl was forced to marry a much older man. In 2010, a 13-year-old Yemeni girl who was forced into an arranged marriage died five days after her wedding when she suffered an internal rupture.

As a mother, my heart would be broken over the death of my precious little girl and her innocence. These disgusting people will face God's judgment, and it won't be pretty. It's a fearful thing to fall under the hands of an angry God.
It would do you well to keep informed now wouldn't it? As for J. Smith, he was a sick, sick man. A pedophile, an adulterer and traitor and many other things, oh most of all, a fraud, con man! Now tell me, having these traits did that make him a man of God?

[Apologette]

Sure, there are cultures in this world who marry off 8 year olds to 40 somethings, does that make it RIGHT!! Your very comment here has told us all that you have the desire for sex with children, so what does that make you? A sick, pedophile! REAL MEN do NOT have desires for sex with children! And you want to use the excuse, "in the flesh." There was a culture of cannibals in Borneo, was that RIGHT too? So what I am reading here is that YOU feel it is alright for older men to marry, have sex with children? Did you know that is against the law in THIS culture?? And you don't think King David loved Bathsheba deeply? You have some very strange ideas. I can also say you don't read much in the way of news either. How about the 8 year old girl in Yemin. Story below:

September 10, 2013


According to the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/09/bride-aged-8-dies-internal-sexual-injuries-wedding-night-_n_3892892.html?just_reloaded=1) on Sept. 9, an 8-year-old Yemeni girl dies from internal injuries on her wedding night. It is believed that the girl died from a tear to her genitals and severe bleeding from a uterine rupture.
Identified only by the name Rawan, the girl died in the tribal area of Hardh in the governorate of Hajjah in northwestern Yemen which borders Saudi Arabia.
Yemeni and Kuwaiti activists are calling for the arrest of the girl's husband and her family for allowing the marriage to take place.
A local rights organization says this is not the first time a death has occurred because of a young girl was forced to marry a much older man. In 2010, a 13-year-old Yemeni girl who was forced into an arranged marriage died five days after her wedding when she suffered an internal rupture.

As a mother, my heart would be broken over the death of my precious little girl and her innocence. These disgusting people will face God's judgment, and it won't be pretty. It's a fearful thing to fall under the hands of an angry God.
It would do you well to keep informed now wouldn't it? As for J. Smith, he was a sick, sick man. A pedophile, an adulterer and traitor and many other things, oh most of all, a fraud, con man! Now tell me, having these traits did that make him a man of God?



There are cultures which perform female circumcision too. That doesn't make it right! How can Mormons justify their own "culture" by comparing it to pagan cultures?

[nothead]

Sure, there are cultures in this world who marry off 8 year olds to 40 somethings, does that make it RIGHT!! Your very comment here has told us all that you have the desire for sex with children, so what does that make you? A sick, pedophile! REAL MEN do NOT have desires for sex with children! And you want to use the excuse, "in the flesh." There was a culture of cannibals in Borneo, was that RIGHT too? So what I am reading here is that YOU feel it is alright for older men to marry, have sex with children? Did you know that is against the law in THIS culture?? And you don't think King David loved Bathsheba deeply? You have some very strange ideas. I can also say you don't read much in the way of news either. How about the 8 year old girl in Yemin. Story below:

September 10, 2013


According to the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/09/bride-aged-8-dies-internal-sexual-injuries-wedding-night-_n_3892892.html?just_reloaded=1) on Sept. 9, an 8-year-old Yemeni girl dies from internal injuries on her wedding night. It is believed that the girl died from a tear to her genitals and severe bleeding from a uterine rupture.
Identified only by the name Rawan, the girl died in the tribal area of Hardh in the governorate of Hajjah in northwestern Yemen which borders Saudi Arabia.
Yemeni and Kuwaiti activists are calling for the arrest of the girl's husband and her family for allowing the marriage to take place.
A local rights organization says this is not the first time a death has occurred because of a young girl was forced to marry a much older man. In 2010, a 13-year-old Yemeni girl who was forced into an arranged marriage died five days after her wedding when she suffered an internal rupture.

As a mother, my heart would be broken over the death of my precious little girl and her innocence. These disgusting people will face God's judgment, and it won't be pretty. It's a fearful thing to fall under the hands of an angry God.
It would do you well to keep informed now wouldn't it? As for J. Smith, he was a sick, sick man. A pedophile, an adulterer and traitor and many other things, oh most of all, a fraud, con man! Now tell me, having these traits did that make him a man of God?



Ooo. Did I get someone excited?

Did I say 8 YEARS OLD is 'of age?' Rather read the text. ****RTY was mentioned. When does God deem a girl old enough? Eh?

Rest my case. Cases cannot rest but I can. Rest my head too.

Also, I do not recall calling JS a 'man of God' or anything else, except LUSTFUL. Am I wong or am I white?

[neverending]

Ooo. Did I get someone excited?

Did I say 8 YEARS OLD is 'of age?' Rather read the text. ****RTY was mentioned. When does God deem a girl old enough? Eh?

Rest my case. Cases cannot rest but I can. Rest my head too.

Also, I do not recall calling JS a 'man of God' or anything else, except LUSTFUL. Am I wong or am I white?

Look, you seem to not know much of anything! As a nurse and educated in the medical field, you evidently don't know that there are girls as young as 9 who begin to have their monthly cycle. You do know what that means. So, don't make such blanket statements without knowing facts!! This has nothing to do with God, but common sense and morality!! It would seem you aren't showing either one with your comments here! So, go off and rest your head and hopefully the next comments you make will be ones that make sense; not ridiculous nonsense. BTW, you ignored my question......due to JS's desires for girls & women, and all the other things to break the law, did that make him a man of God? Bye Richard!!

[RealFakeHair]

Ooo. Did I get someone excited?

Did I say 8 YEARS OLD is 'of age?' Rather read the text. ****RTY was mentioned. When does God deem a girl old enough? Eh?

Rest my case. Cases cannot rest but I can. Rest my head too.

Also, I do not recall calling JS a 'man of God' or anything else, except LUSTFUL. Am I wong or am I white?

No, U R just an idiot, but you have lots of company. Happy Holidays.

[Apologette]

Ooo. Did I get someone excited?

Did I say 8 YEARS OLD is 'of age?' Rather read the text. ****RTY was mentioned. When does God deem a girl old enough? Eh?

Rest my case. Cases cannot rest but I can. Rest my head too.

Also, I do not recall calling JS a 'man of God' or anything else, except LUSTFUL. Am I wong or am I white?

Are you "wong or white?" What country are you posting from - maybe an Islamic country. After all, old Mohammed married a four year old! Joe said he'd be a Second Mohammed.

(Frankly I smell phony troll)

[nothead]

Look, you seem to not know much of anything! As a nurse and educated in the medical field, you evidently don't know that there are girls as young as 9 who begin to have their monthly cycle. You do know what that means. So, don't make such blanket statements without knowing facts!! This has nothing to do with God, but common sense and morality!! It would seem you aren't showing either one with your comments here! So, go off and rest your head and hopefully the next comments you make will be ones that make sense; not ridiculous nonsense. BTW, you ignored my question......due to JS's desires for girls & women, and all the other things to break the law, did that make him a man of God? Bye Richard!!

Oooo you a nurse? That does it then, I rest my case for shore! Just lak a doc, you THANK you know everythang, eh?

Did you know that the menstrual cycle comes earlier than ever, due to flourescent lighting AND steriods, chemicals et al misc. unknown factors....antibotics, booster shots, anti-depressants, ritalin for ADHD, flouride, all being CANDIDATES?

HUH? Ancient girls had a later first onset, maybe we don't know all the facts miss.

I ain't no proponent of JS. He was of the flesh not spirit. This MEANS he ain't a man of God, hay?
But don't overlay present day 8 yr adolescent stage which was NOT THERE in ancient times, including the 1800's since I don't go back that far.

[nothead]

No, U R just an idiot, but you have lots of company. Happy Holidays.

Yeah but my hair ain't fake. Hurts your potential for clear and uninhibited thought. Like a rug over a fire.

[neverending]

Oooo you a nurse? That does it then, I rest my case for shore! Just lak a doc, you THANK you know everythang, eh?

Did you know that the menstrual cycle comes earlier than ever, due to flourescent lighting AND steriods, chemicals et al misc. unknown factors....antibotics, booster shots, anti-depressants, ritalin for ADHD, flouride, all being CANDIDATES?

HUH? Ancient girls had a later first onset, maybe we don't know all the facts miss.

I ain't no proponent of JS. He was of the flesh not spirit. This MEANS he ain't a man of God, hay?
But don't overlay present day 8 yr adolescent stage which was NOT THERE in ancient times, including the 1800's since I don't go back that far.

As a woman with a back ground in nursing, having worked as one for 20 years, I know far more about medical issues then you would ever know. And I call for a reference please to defend your comments here, especially you statement about fluorescent lights. What I know the main cause is the hormones that poultry farmers and dairy farmers give their animals.
Helen Mar Kimball was only 14 and JS was 38. JS married 11 women who already had living spouses. How disgusting is that? This is only a tip of the iceberg when it comes to all the moral laws JS broke.
And I do think you need to stay off the alcohol since you can't seem to put a coherent sentence together.

[RealFakeHair]

Yeah but my hair ain't fake. Hurts your potential for clear and uninhibited thought. Like a rug over a fire.
There you go discriminating against non-real-hair. There is a special place in Hell for persons like U!

[James Banta]

blah, blah, blah. Smith said he was your god. And he was right.

We both know that he really did say that he would be a god to the LDS.. And this Erundur can't stand to hear the truth. He hate it so much he calls it lie without even asking for or looking up references.. Is short I don't find his continued name calling or laziness worth engaging him over.. I figure if we all ignore him he will just go away.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

We both know that he really did say that he would be a god to the LDS.. And this Erundur can't stand to hear the truth. He hate it so much he calls it lie without even asking for or looking up references.. Is short I don't find his continued name calling or laziness worth engaging him over.. I figure if we all ignore him he will just go away.. IHS jim

Most Mormons are beyond the ability to actually research anything - they just have visceral responses!

[Erundur]

We both know that he really did say that he would be a god to the LDS..
But only the brain dead think this is literal--that he would actually take the place of God to us. Figurative speech is lost on anti-Mormons, isn't it?


And this Erundur can't stand to hear the truth. He hate it so much he calls it lie without even asking for or looking up references..
So you lie.


I figure if we all ignore him he will just go away..
Good luck with that. ;)

[Erundur]

Most Mormons are beyond the ability to actually research anything - they just have visceral responses!
You mean like in this thread (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3253-Isn-t-Tomorrow-a-Mormon-quot-Holy-Day-quot), where I researched it and you didn't? :)

[James Banta]

Most Mormons are beyond the ability to actually research anything - they just have visceral responses!

Yes and he can complain and call us liars all day.. All the teachings he has received in Sunday School won't tell him what one ten minute visit to UTLM.org could show. His level of study shows through every time he makes an unsupported denial of what history really shows..

So until he starts to provide actual evidence that what we are saying is false. Until he stops throwing around the liar term, unless he can show that we have really lied, it is my subjection that we ignore him 100%.. Such proof could be easily found. I have and am willing again to give him the proper references. Not found in what he would call an ANTI mormon site but in copies of LDS owned and controlled historical documents.

Do you really think he would be honest enough to look them up for Himself, I doubt it.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Yes and he can complain and call us liars all day.. All the teachings he has received in Sunday School won't tell him what one ten minute visit to UTLM.org could show. His level of study shows through every time he makes an unsupported denial of what history really shows..

So until he starts to provide actual evidence that what we are saying is false. Until he stops throwing around the liar term, unless he can show that we have really lied, it is my subjection that we ignore him 100%.. Such proof could be easily found. I have and am willing again to give him the proper references. Not found in what he would call an ANTI mormon site but in copies of LDS owned and controlled historical documents.

Do you really think he would be honest enough to look them up for Himself, I doubt it.. IHS jim

Maybe 1-in-100 TBMs who come to this sight come in (all honesty). Lets not forget the 1, and just let the other 99 show their ignorance.

[James Banta]

I do try and separate the mormon from the mormonism, it is not easy at times, but the few LDSinc. Friends I have agree we do not talk religion, and it works.

No where in that post is there one reference to any mormon doing anything negative.. The closest I got was saying that the LDS people are not required to respect others.. I didn't say they couldn't.. Then I showed that in the LDS religion such a teaching of respect is not given.. That they are taught that all other churches are part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil. I believe I have separated mormons from mormonism in my post.. I am sorry that they feel personally ***aulted when the teachings of their church are attacked.. It is against mormon church that I attack.. I couldn't possible have better neighbors that the LDS people.. IHS jim

[nothead]

As a woman with a back ground in nursing, having worked as one for 20 years, I know far more about medical issues then you would ever know. And I call for a reference please to defend your comments here, especially you statement about fluorescent lights. What I know the main cause is the hormones that poultry farmers and dairy farmers give their animals.
Helen Mar Kimball was only 14 and JS was 38. JS married 11 women who already had living spouses. How disgusting is that? This is only a tip of the iceberg when it comes to all the moral laws JS broke.
And I do think you need to stay off the alcohol since you can't seem to put a coherent sentence together.

Both parents MD's so I ain't immune to the medical profession...seen sexy nurses, dumb ones, short ones fat ones smart ones and wise ones.

The last being as usual the least among us.

Was that coherent enough for you dear? Ooops I missed a few commas. Don't be so picky.

[James Banta]

Both parents MD's so I ain't immune to the medical profession...seen sexy nurses, dumb ones, short ones fat ones smart ones and wise ones.

The last being as usual the least among us.

Was that coherent enough for you dear? Ooops I missed a few commas. Don't be so picky.

You are most welcome to post here on this channel, but remember this channel is for the discussion of mormonism and not for personal grips.. Again welcome please try to follow the rules of the channel.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Maybe 1-in-100 TBMs who come to this sight come in (all honesty). Lets not forget the 1, and just let the other 99 show their ignorance.

Hey I will even talk to Erundur IF he wants to discuss mormonism without the personal attacks.. I don't expect that he will agree with us, BUT the fact that we hold a different view of mormonism than he does doesn't make us hypocrites or liars.. Until he grows up a bit and learns how to make a logical point based in what he "Knows is the truth". I will continue to ignore him.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Hey I will even talk to Erundur IF he wants to discuss mormonism without the personal attacks.. .. IHS jim

Wishful thinking!

[neverending]

Both parents MD's so I ain't immune to the medical profession...seen sexy nurses, dumb ones, short ones fat ones smart ones and wise ones.

The last being as usual the least among us.

Was that coherent enough for you dear? Ooops I missed a few commas. Don't be so picky.

Hard to believe your comment here about both of your parents being doctors. You don't speak like a person who's had much education. Ain't isn't proper English, you should know that. Now, care to discuss Mormonism or not? If not then why are you here? All I've read out of you so far is snotty comments, with no content.

[John T]

As a woman with a back ground in nursing, having worked as one for 20 years, I know far more about medical issues then you would ever know. And I call for a reference please to defend your comments here, especially you statement about fluorescent lights. What I know the main cause is the hormones that poultry farmers and dairy farmers give their animals.
Helen Mar Kimball was only 14 and JS was 38. JS married 11 women who already had living spouses. How disgusting is that? This is only a tip of the iceberg when it comes to all the moral laws JS broke.
And I do think you need to stay off the alcohol since you can't seem to put a coherent sentence together.

Today, those sorts of people I put in bold red are called SWINGERS.

Can anyone tell me why that is NEVER mentioned as part of the LSD history?

[nothead]

You are most welcome to post here on this channel, but remember this channel is for the discussion of mormonism and not for personal grips.. Again welcome please try to follow the rules of the channel.. IHS jim

You mean personal GRIPES?

Let's stay coherent now. She said I was on the bottle. So I get the chide? Who has the grips, anyhoo? Is that some kinda consta-machination?

[James Banta]

You mean personal GRIPES?

Let's stay coherent now. She said I was on the bottle. So I get the chide? Who has the grips, anyhoo? Is that some kinda consta-machination?

This she you are speaking of might have said that because of your strange speech.. Straighten up and speak like the educated man you want us to believe you are and that will not happen.. But act like a drunk and it most likely will.. Do you have any comment on the OP or not? IHS jim

[neverending]

You mean personal GRIPES?

Let's stay coherent now. She said I was on the bottle. So I get the chide? Who has the grips, anyhoo? Is that some kinda consta-machination?

Who's she? You want to talk about me, it would be nice if you would use my name here. HEY Richard! you are a pain where I never had an ache. Care to talk about your religion? Seems you came here only to be sarcastic and avoid any conversation about Mormonism. I guess from now on....any comment made by you will be ignored til you decide to post what this site is about. Have a good life.

[neverending]

Today, those sorts of people I put in bold red are called SWINGERS.

Can anyone tell me why that is NEVER mentioned as part of the LSD history?

Well John T, if the LDS were to come out and reveal some of their dark history, it could cause many to question; as I did and they could lose many members. Heaven forbid that would happen for Pres. Monson....how would the church be able to keep him living in luxury?
What I do find very sad is how the majority of LDS members have no idea nor have read their own Church History. It should be a must read or at least taught to seminary students. Wouldn't people want to know how their church began, (we all know how Mormonism began) but how it got from A to B, to C etc? A shame so many LDS are so gullible, willing to believe anything.

[Apologette]

Well John T, if the LDS were to come out and reveal some of their dark history, it could cause many to question; as I did and they could lose many members. Heaven forbid that would happen for Pres. Monson....how would the church be able to keep him living in luxury?
What I do find very sad is how the majority of LDS members have no idea nor have read their own Church History. It should be a must read or at least taught to seminary students. Wouldn't people want to know how their church began, (we all know how Mormonism began) but how it got from A to B, to C etc? A shame so many LDS are so gullible, willing to believe anything.
I read a story about one high official's daughter who had no idea that Joe Smith was a polygamist. I have a book on Mormon history put out by the cult which makes absolutely no mention of polygamy - a central practice of early Mormonism. It has been completely sanitized.

[neverending]

I read a story about one high official's daughter who had no idea that Joe Smith was a polygamist. I have a book on Mormon history put out by the cult which makes absolutely no mention of polygamy - a central practice of early Mormonism. It has been completely sanitized.

That's why I was saying it is sad that the majority of LDS people have no idea about their church's history. As I said before, if more knew the dark secrets of their beginnings, they would question as I did. Course there's always going to be the die hard members who refuse to see anything and will believe anything. Such was the case with my parents and they are both gone now. How difficult it is for me to know they are not with the Lord even though I and James had many discussions with my Dad, my Mom would leave the room; she knew everything about every religion, that's what she would tell us.

[nothead]

This she you are speaking of might have said that because of your strange speech.. Straighten up and speak like the educated man you want us to believe you are and that will not happen.. But act like a drunk and it most likely will.. Do you have any comment on the OP or not? IHS jim

How many notheads are educated? I got EDUMACATED by the School of Hard Knocks. I know many nots and a few amens.

Your OP is confusing. Some oddball POEM you wrote or some author who dislikes Mormonism? Lot of scarcasm there. I recognize SARCASM all right.

Otherwise I am content being the Moderator of Checks and Balances Regarding Pedantic Blanket Statements.

[neverending]

How many notheads are educated? I got EDUMACATED by the School of Hard Knocks. I know many nots and a few amens.

Your OP is confusing. Some oddball POEM you wrote or some author who dislikes Mormonism? Lot of scarcasm there. I recognize SARCASM all right.

Otherwise I am content being the Moderator of Checks and Balances Regarding Pedantic Blanket Statements.

If you're going to slam this OP best make sure you have who the author was who wrote it. As for this OP, it's not confusing at all if you knew anything about your own Church History....so much for being educated. James Banta is NOT the person who started this OP so best go back to the beginning nothead....or should it be knothead?

[Pa Pa]

'Twas the night before Smithmas, and all through the temple,
Not a cumelon was creeping, or a tapir, (for ex-emple!)
The garments were hung out to dry in the air,
But fortunately for us, we have two extra pairs.

The children were stashed at Gramma's homestead,
While Mom and Pop got dunked once again for the dead!
And Mom in her veil, and I in my old bakers' cap,
Had just about finished another endowment wrap!

When beyond the temple grounds I heard a big clatter
Even sprang from my seat to see about the chatter;
To the pentagram window I flew like an eagle,
Peered out to see some Christians - they were legal!

The icky tall towers cast a shadow below
But still I could see someone I did know.
For what to unbelieving eyes should appear,
But my eldest daughter and hubby, my greatest fear!

With signs held high, walking about and about
And above the din, I could even hear them shout!
Rapidly, quickly, their sentences came,
And they shouted each "profit", yes even by name!

"Now Smith, now Young, now Kimball and Monson!
Come on Woodruff, and Taylor, and every man's son!
To the top of the temple, to the top of the spire!
Each man can explain why he did conspire"!

"Joseph Lied"! They shouted as the leaves began to fly,
We've met the Tanners, and discovered the lies!
So come out and face us, bring the whole crew!
Hinckley and "Fielding," and McConkie, too!

And then in a while, I perceived on the roof!
That Moroni was laughing, banging his hoof!
And as I turned back to see my dear wife,
I saw her run and cry, "getting out with my life."

The wiggling hand dropped from the eerie veil,
And soon the whole crowd ran out, 'cept the frail!
Some hobbled along, they didn't look back,
'Til there was just me, and Satan in black!

Old Slew Foot's eyes flashed, as he called after the flee-ers
"Ha, you fools won't escape, you can't be "believers."
You see, you've covenanted Joe Smith to obey,
If you don't, why then fools, I'll rule the day!

But the stump of one sign still stood on it's pole,
And it's words could be seen, even thru the cold!
"Joseph has lied, no first vision , he's a boaster!
Moronoi never existed, and Smith's an impostor!

The Christians rejoiced as the Mormons streamed out,
And I couldn't help hearing them put up a shout!
With a smile and a prayer, they welcomed the lost,
And told them the Gospel, Good News in the frost!

And they spoke God's Word, going straight to their work,
Filling hearts with hope, and healing the hurt!
They p***ed out Bibles, and with tears in their eyes,
Praised the God of the Universe, who vanquishes lies!

And with hope's spark in my heart, I ran out to see,
My family who cared to love, love mother and me!
And I heard them exclaim, as they prayed so intense!
"Good bye Joseph Smith, and to Satan, get thee hence"!
You know there is no such thing as Smithmas.

[Apologette]

You know there is no such thing as Smithmas.

Parody. Sometimes that's the best method to address things. The point was, that Mormons have an unusual devotion to Joseph Smith, comparable to the way Christians are devoted to Christ. Take Smith out of the equation, and there is no Mormonism, right? However, you can take Luther, or Calvin, or Wycliff, or Hus out of Christianity and our faith still stands.

[Pa Pa]

Apologette,
Having been born and raised LDS and my father was a temple worker for over 7 yrs. I was sorry to see this supposed poem. I don't think we can be taken seriously if we are making fun of something that the LDS hold dear. Kind of like someone making fun of our crosses or Pastors wearing robes. Maybe you could delete this thread.
I don't understanding such mocking either, not to mention there is no such thing as "Smithmas". This type of mocking shows the devil that lives within them, and those given over to a reprobate mind.

[Pa Pa]

Parody. Sometimes that's the best method to address things. The point was, that Mormons have an unusual devotion to Joseph Smith, comparable to the way Christians are devoted to Christ. Take Smith out of the equation, and there is no Mormonism, right? However, you can take Luther, or Calvin, or Wycliff, or Hus out of Christianity and our faith still stands.Oh yes, Luther who is only second to Hitler as a anti-Semite, and Calvin who ordered other to commit murder. In fact Hitler used the words of Luther to justify the murder of 6,000,000 Jews. Both Calvin and Luther are in hell.

[Apologette]

I don't understanding such mocking either, not to mention there is no such thing as "Smithmas". This type of mocking shows the devil that lives within them, and those given over to a reprobate mind.

As a former Baptist, you know very well, Pa Pa, that a reprobate mind is one that can no longer be reached for Christ. Would you say that those who have given themselves fully to Joseph Smith are included in that category (if you were a Baptist of course)? I think you know what you're talking about, but are simply misusing the term. Joseph Smith is not Jesus, and to point out his heresies and evil lifestyle is not wrong. Everything done in secret will be exposed.It is not a sign of being reprobate to point out the sordid, destructive lifestyle lived by Joseph Smith - he was a womanizer, who married the wives of other Mormon men, groomed little girls as young as age twelve to be his "plurals," and claimed God sent an angel to him to force him to commit adultery. Come on, Papa, had you known this stuff before the missionaries proselyted you you'd have run the other way! Smith was evil and there's no use trying to cover it up, because the Lord God has exposed him for what he was! He was the same as most cult leaders of modern times who used power and position for sexual favors. Hey, Koresh and Jones deceived many people (and had they lived in the nineteenth century, they'd probably still be alive sowing their destructive seeds and spiritually murdering their followers). Take a step back, Papa, and really look at Smith, and then remember Our Lord's Words:

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Papa, Smith said that Jesus came in the "secret chambers" of a grove - it was a lie! And Jesus warned you beforehand!

[Pa Pa]

As a former Baptist, you know very well, Pa Pa, that a reprobate mind is one that can no longer be reached for Christ. Would you say that those who have given themselves fully to Joseph Smith are included in that category (if you were a Baptist of course). I think you know what you're talking about, but simply misusing the term. Joseph Smith is not Jesus, and to point out his heresies and evil lifestyle is not wrong. Everything done in secret will be exposed.You know I was a Baptist...Mt Zion Baptist Church, Cartersvile GA, Autry Baptist Church, Acworth, GA, Westside Baptist Church, Glenvile, GA. I don't lie here...though you and I were past this? I know Joseph is not Jesus as does every Mormon living, and it is insulting that you would imply such a thing...also I know you believe that there are people from the beginning of all time that cannot be reached by Christ, according to God's will and pleasure. The awful truth is someday that those who cannot extend Charity to other will meet this God and reap the whirlwind.

[Apologette]

You know I was a Baptist...Mt Zion Baptist Church, Cartersvile GA, Autry Baptist Church, Acworth, GA, Westside Baptist Church, Glenvile, GA. I don't lie here...though you and I were past this? I know Joseph is not Jesus as does every Mormon living, and it is insulting that you would imply such a thing...also I know you believe that there are people from the beginning of all time that cannot be reached by Christ, according to God's will and pleasure. The awful truth is someday that those who cannot extend Charity to other will meet this God and reap the whirlwind.

Of course I know you were a Baptist, and I also know that if you were truly saved, God will tug you back to Him. Maybe that's why you are here.

[Apologette]

As a former Baptist, you know very well, Pa Pa, that a reprobate mind is one that can no longer be reached for Christ. Would you say that those who have given themselves fully to Joseph Smith are included in that category (if you were a Baptist of course)? I think you know what you're talking about, but are simply misusing the term. Joseph Smith is not Jesus, and to point out his heresies and evil lifestyle is not wrong. Everything done in secret will be exposed.It is not a sign of being reprobate to point out the sordid, destructive lifestyle lived by Joseph Smith - he was a womanizer, who married the wives of other Mormon men, groomed little girls as young as age twelve to be his "plurals," and claimed God sent an angel to him to force him to commit adultery. Come on, Papa, had you known this stuff before the missionaries proselyted you you'd have run the other way! Smith was evil and there's no use trying to cover it up, because the Lord God has exposed him for what he was! He was the same as most cult leaders of modern times who used power and position for sexual favors. Hey, Koresh and Jones deceived many people (and had they lived in the nineteenth century, they'd probably still be alive sowing their destructive seeds and spiritually murdering their followers). Take a step back, Papa, and really look at Smith, and then remember Our Lord's Words:

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Papa, Smith said that Jesus came in the "secret chambers" of a grove - it was a lie! And Jesus warned you beforehand!

Papa what about the rest of the post above?

[Pa Pa]

I read a story about one high official's daughter who had no idea that Joe Smith was a polygamist. I have a book on Mormon history put out by the cult which makes absolutely no mention of polygamy - a central practice of early Mormonism. It has been completely sanitized.
We just finished and entire years studying the teaching of on of our Presidents. Throughout the book it spoke of his polygamy. In Sunday School,mother D&C, and section 132 what discussed. So, it is nonsense that we don't talk about.

[Apologette]

We just finished and entire years studying the teaching of on of our Presidents. Throughout the book it spoke of his polygamy. In Sunday School,mother D&C, and section 132 what discussed. So, it is nonsense that we don't talk about.

That's today, Papa, when the cult is trying to deal with the truth. Look at the older book, "Church History in the Fulness of Times," which I have and try to find it in that. Many younger Mormons are leaving today when confronted with the terrible truth of Smith's lifestyle. Look at the series, "Teachings of the Presidents of the Church," and you'll find scant mentioning of polygamy. The whole sordid thing was covered up and you know it. And that's because down deep Mormons know what a shameful thing it was. Smith was a conman who used his position for sex, money and power, just as Koresh did and just as Jones did. No difference at all.

[James Banta]

We just finished and entire years studying the teaching of on of our Presidents. Throughout the book it spoke of his polygamy. In Sunday School,mother D&C, and section 132 what discussed. So, it is nonsense that we don't talk about.

Good to hear that you remember the sins of mormonism.. Is it still spoken of as the ordinance that can bring a person to exaltation or is it spoken of as a early church aberration to deal with the large number of women coming to Utah from the "mission field"? You do know that the problem with that is that there was never a surplus of women in Utah.. In the early days when Utah was a Territory men always out numbered women.. That being true the only reason for polygamy was the lust of the men that made up the centers of power within the church hierarchy..

What you were taught is SS if it taught that polygamy was only to deal with the influx of women to Utah was a lie.. The facts make it clear that polygamy was never needed. Tell me why was it tat when the world need to have it's population increase that God still provided one wife for each man? Adam had one wife, the sons of Noah all had one wife.. Polygamy then is a system based only on men's lusts, not at all the teaching of God, nor the kind of marriage wherein God lives.. Understand I am not calling it sin. I am saying that it is not the kind of marriage that God has directed.. When a man becomes involved in that sort of marriage he is automatically disqualified from being a leader of the Church.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Of course I know you were a Baptist, and I also know that if you were truly saved, God will tug you back to Him. Maybe that's why you are here.
If I am wrong...I hope he will. But I have had too many overwhelming experiences that would suggest otherwise. My wife had a serious cancer scare, I gave her a blessing; afterward they could no longer find the growth. My daughter had a a condition that could not be corrected without surgery and after a blessing she was healed. Unless you believe they were healed by Satan to confuse me...if so a God who would allow this deserves hell.

[Apologette]

If I am wrong...I hope he will. But I have had too many overwhelming experiences that would suggest otherwise. My wife had a serious cancer scare, I gave her a blessing; afterward they could no longer find the growth. My daughter had a a condition that could not be corrected without surgery and after a blessing she was healed. Unless you believe they were healed by Satan to confuse me...if so a God who would allow this deserves hell.
I think many times God will answer the prayers of those who may not have been faithful to Him. He is a God of mercy, Papa. If He wasn't, how would He answer the prayers of those who do not yet believe? And He does. God has a plan for each of us, and obviously that included your wife's health. Was she originally a believer too? I think God is leading you back, Papa, and you have a *** to do in the future, and it won't be easy.

[Pa Pa]

This she you are speaking of might have said that because of your strange speech.. Straighten up and speak like the educated man you want us to believe you are and that will not happen.. But act like a drunk and it most likely will.. Do you have any comment on the OP or not? IHS jim
Who died and made you Pope, Jim?

[Pa Pa]

I think many times God will answer the prayers of those who may not have been faithful to Him. He is a God of mercy, Papa. If He wasn't, how would He answer the prayers of those who do not yet believe? And He does. God has a plan for each of us, and obviously that included your wife's health. Was she originally a believer too? I think God is leading you back, Papa, and you have a *** to do in the future, and it won't be easy.
These were blessings not prayers...also you know you all believe I pray to a different God. Don't patronize me.

[Apologette]

These were blessings not prayers...also you know you all believe I pray to a different God. Don't patronize me.
No, they were appeals to God, and that is prayer. YOU have no "priesthood" powers. I've had my own children and grandchildren miraculously healed through the laying on of hands and just simple prayer. I had my grandson, who was on the brink of death from mastoiditis with brain infection and in the hospital healed miraculously after prayer, even after the doctors had expressed grave concern. God answers prayers according to HIS Sovereign will, not according to ours. Most Christians here can share similar stories of miraculous acts by God and Divine intervention. Repent and come back to God, I believe that is His will for you.

[Pa Pa]

No, they were appeals to God, and that is prayer. YOU have no "priesthood" powers. I've had my own children and grandchildren miraculously healed through the laying on of hands and just simple prayer. I had my grandson, who was on the brink of death from mastoiditis and in the hospital healed miraculously after prayer, even after the doctors had expressed grave concern. God answers prayers according to HIS Sovereign will, not according to ours. Most Christians here can share similar stories of miraculous acts by God and Divine intervention. Repent and come back to God, I believe that is His will for you.What about an lever powering experience in the 1983 dedication of the Atlanta Temple, I had. Is this from God? You are trying to play both sides of the of the fence. Also I said that I did not believe he was Christian. Also "Allah" means God in Arabic...so translated into English it means, "There is no God but God". How do you know it was not a gift from someone he loves. If my mother had given me a Cross when I was young I would wear even today.

[Apologette]

What about an lever powering experience in the 1983 dedication of the Atlanta Temple, I had. Is this from God? You are trying to play both sides of the of the fence. Also I said that I did not believe he was Christian. Also "Allah" means God in Arabic...so translated into English it means, "There is no God but God". How do you know it was not a gift from someone he loves. If my mother had given me a Cross when I was young I would wear even today.

Papa, don't you realize that when you go into occult "temples" you can experience occult manifestations? The Hare Krishnas report miraculous experiences in their temples, too. The Christian Scientists report m***ive amounts of healings through reading Mary Baker Eddy's book. There were many supposed "miracles" when the Kirtland temple was dedicated. Papa, has God told us in the Bible to go by "experiences" or by His Word?

The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it Jer. 17:9

Look, Papa, when I got saved it was by reading Ephesians chapter 2 in the Bible. It went clearly against my belief that works saved. I had been told the truth by Evangelicals, but I mocked them. I thought they were deluded! But there it was in black and white in God's Word. I had to choose to believe the Word above my feelings and opinions. And when I confessed my sins, God released me from false beliefs. He'll do the same for you. But you must get on your knees and tell God you repent of false beliefs. God will do the rest. Don't let the Devil confuse you with false miracles and experiences, remember what Jesus said:

Matt. 24:24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Of course the false signs and wonders accompany false prophets and their followers. Jesus said so. But if you have been called by God, the Biblical God, He will release you from delusion and bring you back. I believe that. When it comes to a tug of war between my experiences or opinions, and God's Word, I've found out each time that God's Word was right!

[Ma'am]

The LDS may have more "revelations" than orthodox Christian church, but that doesn't mean that they come from God. In fact, they come from the devil, the father of lies.

[Pa Pa]

Papa, don't you realize that when you go into occult "temples" you can experience occult manifestations? The Hare Krishnas report miraculous experiences in their temples, too. The Christian Scientists report m***ive amounts of healings through reading Mary Baker Eddy's book. There were many supposed "miracles" when the Kirtland temple was dedicated. Papa, has God told us in the Bible to go by "experiences" or by His Word?

The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it Jer. 17:9

Look, Papa, when I got saved it was by reading Ephesians chapter 2 in the Bible. It went clearly against my belief that works saved. I had been told the truth by Evangelicals, but I mocked them. I thought they were deluded! But there it was in black and white in God's Word. I had to choose to believe the Word above my feelings and opinions. And when I confessed my sins, God released me from false beliefs. He'll do the same for you. But you must get on your knees and tell God you repent of false beliefs. God will do the rest. Don't let the Devil confuse you with false miracles and experiences, remember what Jesus said:

Matt. 24:24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Of course the false signs and wonders accompany false prophets and their followers. Jesus said so. But if you have been called by God, the Biblical God, He will release you from delusion and bring you back. I believe that. When it comes to a tug of war between my experiences or opinions, and God's Word, I've found out each time that God's Word was right!
No I don't realize Temples are occult. I am sorry that you think an "I sorry" to God releases you from true repentance. This belief means you will never truly repent.

[Pa Pa]

The LDS may have more "revelations" than orthodox Christian church, but that doesn't mean that they come from God. In fact, they come from the devil, the father of lies.
Try to come up with an original thought.

[Apologette]

The LDS may have more "revelations" than orthodox Christian church, but that doesn't mean that they come from God. In fact, they come from the devil, the father of lies.

Hi, Ma'am. Yes, and extra-biblical revelations are certainly one of the paramount hallmarks of a cult! They all have them.

[Apologette]

No I don't realize Temples are occult. I am sorry that you think an "I sorry" to God releases you from true repentance. This belief means you will never truly repent.
Praying for you, Papa. I'm not the Holy Spirit, and I can't convict anybody. Listen carefully, though. And humble yourself.

[Pa Pa]

Hi, Ma'am. Yes, and extra-biblical revelations are certainly one of the paramount hallmarks of a cult! They all have them.
So God closed the heavens and no longer speaks to man...and this is why?

[Pa Pa]

Praying for you, Papa. I'm not the Holy Spirit, and I can't convict anybody. Listen carefully, though. And humble yourself.
You know Appologette you write in soft tones, but you are as vicious an anti-Mormon as any other.

[Apologette]

So God closed the heavens and no longer speaks to man...and this is why?

He speaks to us all the time, Papa. Pick up your Bible, pray for protection by the Holy Spirit when you read, and God will speak to you! You should know that! I'm a charismatic, and you should understand we believe that the Holy Spirit is not "our companion," but indwells believers and leads them. By Word and Spirit, Papa. And they must agree.

[Apologette]

You know Appologette you write in soft tones, but you are as vicious an anti-Mormon as any other.
Not anti-Mormon, but surely anti-false prophets, and anti-Mormonism. I believe Mormons seduced you Papa. You should be glad and blessed that Christians take the time to share the truth with you. Remember, it was Smith who first said my faith was an abomination. That was anti-Christian.

[Pa Pa]

Not anti-Mormon, but surely anti-false prophets, and anti-Mormonism. I believe Mormons seduced you Papa. You should be glad and blessed that Christians take the time to share the truth with you. Remember, it was Smith who first said my faith was an abomination. That was anti-Christian.

I see, I am just stupid enough to be deceived. Joseph did not say your faith was an abomination, Christ did.

[Apologette]

I see, I am just stupid enough to be deceived. Joseph did not say your faith was an abomination, Christ did.

I was once deceived. My best friend was once a Swedenborgian cultist. God led her out when she got on her knees and asked God to tell her the truth. We all were once in the Kingdom of Darkness until God, through grace and mercy brought us out. Well, I have to actually do some work now. Have a great weekend.

[Pa Pa]

He speaks to us all the time, Papa. Pick up your Bible, pray for protection by the Holy Spirit when you read, and God will speak to you! You should know that! I'm a charismatic, and you should understand we believe that the Holy Spirit is not "our companion," but indwells believers and leads them. By Word and Spirit, Papa. And they must agree.
I am currently reading the OT, will he speak to me there?

[Pa Pa]

I was once deceived. My best friend was once a Swedenborgian cultist. God led her out when she got on her knees and asked God to tell her the truth. We all were once in the Kingdom of Darkness until God, through grace and mercy brought us out. Well, I have to actually do some work now. Have a great weekend.
You would be marvel at how many times I have done, since my birth and after joining the Church that if I were deceived that he would give me his Spirit to know. He has only confirmed my belief as have the Scriptures. So many of you rely on others views of scripture rather than see it for what it is. Especially evil men like Luther and Calvin. Why not Roger Williams, founder of the Baptist religion who looked for new Apostles and Prophets.

[neverending]

You would be marvel at how many times I have done, since my birth and after joining the Church that if I were deceived that he would give me his Spirit to know. He has only confirmed my belief as have the Scriptures. So many of you rely on others views of scripture rather than see it for what it is. Especially evil men like Luther and Calvin. Why not Roger Williams, founder of the Baptist religion who looked for new Apostles and Prophets.

Many can be fooled or deceived. Take your own Prophet Spencer Kimball who was deceived by Mark Hoffman and bought many m****cripts that were forgeries. What happened there when your Prophet is called, Seer and Revelator? Why didn't the Holy Spirit tell him these m****cripts were fake? So, don't rely on feelings, they will let you down. I rely on myself and what the Holy Spirit leads me to. If you want to know how I really feel about organized religion, I think they're all bad.

[Pa Pa]

Many can be fooled or deceived. Take your own Prophet Spencer Kimball who was deceived by Mark Hoffman and bought many m****cripts that were forgeries. What happened there when your Prophet is called, Seer and Revelator? Why didn't the Holy Spirit tell him these m****cripts were fake? So, don't rely on feelings, they will let you down. I rely on myself and what the Holy Spirit leads me to. If you want to know how I really feel about organized religion, I think they're all bad. What a sick comparison. How many were deceived by the President of Evangelicals in America, fooled by a true gay man...which people I know you hate.

[Pa Pa]

Many can be fooled or deceived. Take your own Prophet Spencer Kimball who was deceived by Mark Hoffman and bought many m****cripts that were forgeries. What happened there when your Prophet is called, Seer and Revelator? Why didn't the Holy Spirit tell him these m****cripts were fake? So, don't rely on feelings, they will let you down. I rely on myself and what the Holy Spirit leads me to. If you want to know how I really feel about organized religion, I think they're all bad. Another thing, my many prayers to not be deceived...God just don't give a ****?

[Apologette]

Another thing, my many prayers to not be deceived...God just don't give a ****?

The Mormon "god" to whom you are praying doesn't exist, Papa. You believe in a god who was born on another planet, according to Joe Smith, and who was "exalted" by another "god" to godhood and ***igned to rule over planet earth. Your god is a myth. Try praying to the true God, who does want you to come to the truth.

[RealFakeHair]

What a sick comparison. How many were deceived by the President of Evangelicals in America, fooled by a true gay man...which people I know you hate.

For sure anytime we look towards man we have allready begin to fall.

[James Banta]

For sure anytime we look towards man we have allready begin to fall.

Have you ever heard of such a man? Is there anywhere a synod in the Lutheran church that respects the edict of the Presbyterian authority? How about a congregational church that accepts no outside authority over their church? Who is this "President of Evangelicals in America". PaPa says that he is ****sexual.. I was unaware that any such man existed. In fact I say that there is no such person.. Never has been never will be..

As far as hating anyone a Christian does NOT do so.. We hate it when we see millions of Christian being murdered because of their faith in Jesus (Fox Book of Martyrs) but as taught by our Lord we love them and pray for them.. How could we do less for the ****sexual? IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Try to come up with an original thought.

Speaking of an original thought, when was the last time anyone came up with one?

[RealFakeHair]

Have you ever heard of such a man? Is there anywhere a synod in the Lutheran church that respects the edict of the Presbyterian authority? How about a congregational church that accepts no outside authority over their church? Who is this "President of Evangelicals in America". PaPa says that he is ****sexual.. I was unaware that any such man existed. In fact I say that there is no such person.. Never has been never will be..

As far as hating anyone a Christian does NOT do so.. We hate it when we see millions of Christian being murdered because of their faith in Jesus (Fox Book of Martyrs) but as taught by our Lord we love them and pray for them.. How could we do less for the ****sexual? IHS jim

papa should know this question. How many members of the Southern Baptist Convention knows the name of its president?
I bet less then 30%. How many members of the LDSinc. Know their president name? I bet 99.4400.%