Utah, Gone the Way of the World

[neverending]

Utah has gone the way of the world and I am feeling ashamed of the state I was born and raised in. You see, this past week, a federal court judge ruled that our state's cons***utional law, stating that a marriage is between a man and woman is not valid. This opened the doors for same sex marriages to take place. The Salt Lake County Complex, where people go to buy a marriage license was over run and the office was told they could stay open an extra two hours. Even with that, there were hoards of couples wanting to get their licenses but were turned away til Monday. On our local TV stations, it gave a real time report where the Mayor of Salt Lake actually married two men, one a Senator for our Legislature. It made me sick to my stomach. It continued showing other gay couples being married and even one gay woman sobbing as she said, "I never thought this day would come...to now be able to be married to the woman I love and have the same rights as other married couples." She was holding a small boy in her arms at the time as well. Again, I was sickened by this display of immorality and the shamelessness of these deviants.
With a Judge declaring polygamy is alright because those people have the right to practice their religion, as long as there is only one official marriage license, anyone can live that kind of lifestyle. What has happened? Salt Lake has become the Sodom and Gomorrah of the 21st century and so God will judge accordingly. What are good, Christian people to do? To read the whole story please go to: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57291925-78/marriage-utah-sex-state.html.csp

[James Banta]

Utah has gone the way of the world and I am feeling ashamed of the state I was born and raised in. You see, this past week, a federal court judge ruled that our state's cons***utional law, stating that a marriage is between a man and woman is not valid. This opened the doors for same sex marriages to take place. The Salt Lake County Complex, where people go to buy a marriage license was over run and the office was told they could stay open an extra two hours. Even with that, there were hoards of couples wanting to get their licenses but were turned away til Monday. On our local TV stations, it gave a real time report where the Mayor of Salt Lake actually married two men, one a Senator for our Legislature. It made me sick to my stomach. It continued showing other gay couples being married and even one gay woman sobbing as she said, "I never thought this day would come...to now be able to be married to the woman I love and have the same rights as other married couples." She was holding a small boy in her arms at the time as well. Again, I was sickened by this display of immorality and the shamelessness of these deviants.
With a Judge declaring polygamy is alright because those people have the right to practice their religion, as long as there is only one official marriage license, anyone can live that kind of lifestyle. What has happened? Salt Lake has become the Sodom and Gomorrah of the 21st century and so God will judge accordingly. What are good, Christian people to do? To read the whole story please go to: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57291925-78/marriage-utah-sex-state.html.csp

I agree totally. The only problem is I don't know where there is a place in the whole world that isn't contaminated by the evil thoughts and deeds of the unregenerate heart.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

I agree totally. The only problem is I don't know where there is a place in the whole world that isn't contaminated by the evil thoughts and deeds of the unregenerate heart.. IHS jim
This is what happens when more and more, leave the faith that made Utah great, for anything goes.

[James Banta]

This is what happens when more and more, leave the faith that made Utah great, for anything goes.

Did you see where I showed that still 80% of the Utah State Legislator is LDS? That still 61% of the total population is LDS and 43% attend church weekly? So this happens when more and more leave the faith.. How many do you need to have on your side before evil thoughts and deeds end? IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Did you see where I showed that still 80% of the Utah State Legislator is LDS? That still 61% of the total population is LDS and 43% attend church weekly? So this happens when more and more leave the faith.. How many do you need to have on your side before evil thoughts and deeds end? IHS jim
That 80% are politicians...go figure. It is still Utah Gov't that appoints Judges.

[neverending]

This is what happens when more and more, leave the faith that made Utah great, for anything goes.

NO! This is about gays who continue to push their lifestyles onto the world. And about a Federal Court Judge Shelby who instead of upholding laws is making them. What is so shameful about this is seeing how many people here within the Salt Lake Valley who wanted marriage licenses. The County Complex was crawling with the deviants. And watching the TV news and seeing men kissing men and woman kissing woman, made my stomach turn. God will judge these people but I wish we didn't have to see it every where we go.
BTW, how many of these deviants were Mormons? To ***ume that people have left Mormonism is just that, ***uming for we don't know and I am sure there were many that are members. What is Pres. Monson going to say now? The LDS Church has only said that gays are welcome as long as they don't succumb to their desires. Well, if these people are now married they most certainly will succumb to their desires and will engage in sexual activities. Is your church going to excommunicate these members?

[Pa Pa]

NO! This is about gays who continue to push their lifestyles onto the world. And about a Federal Court Judge Shelby who instead of upholding laws is making them. What is so shameful about this is seeing how many people here within the Salt Lake Valley who wanted marriage licenses. The County Complex was crawling with the deviants. And watching the TV news and seeing men kissing men and woman kissing woman, made my stomach turn. God will judge these people but I wish we didn't have to see it every where we go.
BTW, how many of these deviants were Mormons? To ***ume that people have left Mormonism is just that, ***uming for we don't know and I am sure there were many that are members. What is Pres. Monson going to say now? The LDS Church has only said that gays are welcome as long as they don't succumb to their desires. Well, if these people are now married they most certainly will succumb to their desires and will engage in sexual activities. Is your church going to excommunicate these members?
After what you said about Georgia, "methinks thou doth protest to much".

[neverending]

After what you said about Georgia, "methinks thou doth protest to much".

Papa....now I know you're not playing with a full deck! WHAT about my statement would ever make you think I was gay? I am stunned by your line of thinking! Try going back and reread what I posted, ok? And read very slowly. Are you wanting everyone here to believe you think ****sexuality is alright in your book? Have you gone down that wide path that leads to destruction? Would seem that is the case wouldn't it? Jump on the band wagon Papa and you'll fit right in.
Now I will again ask, what is Pres. Monson going to do with those members who are gay and got married last week? Will they not be excommunicated? For the leadership has said they are welcome in the church, can participate in all church activities as long as they don't give in to their deviant desires. Can you answer that one question or not?

[Pa Pa]

[SIZE=3]NO!

Unbecoming for a lady to yell, even sad that you do not know I am agreeing with you. I feel the same way about my own politicians. Any State who votes on this issue ricks it being overturned. Utah as well as other States rolled the dice and lost.

[James Banta]

That 80% are politicians...go figure. It is still Utah Gov't that appoints Judges.

Not federal judges.. But is is appointed clerks that issue marriage licenses. Even if government position follow only the demographic of the state's population then 60% would hold those positions responsible to issuing those marriage licenses would be LDS.. 60% of the total number of the clerks in the state LDS and still aiding gays to get married.. is that being SALT? If I were in their position rather than to ***ist in the open practice of sin I would QUIT.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Unbecoming for a lady to yell, even sad that you do not know I am agreeing with you. I feel the same way about my own politicians. Any State who votes on this issue ricks it being overturned. Utah as well as other States rolled the dice and lost.

Hey, if I had wanted to yell, everything would have been in caps, not just a two letter word with an explanation point. You do know what an explanation point is for don't you? From your comment, it was hard to even understand let alone see that you were agreeing with me. This whole country has gone off the deep end and it's not going to get better any time soon. It makes me ashamed to call myself an American and now a Utahn. Oh goodness, I digress :(

[Pa Pa]

Hey, if I had wanted to yell, everything would have been in caps, not just a two letter word with an explanation point. You do know what an explanation point is for don't you? From your comment, it was hard to even understand let alone see that you were agreeing with me. This whole country has gone off the deep end and it's not going to get better any time soon. It makes me ashamed to call myself an American and now a Utahn. Oh goodness, I digress :( Well, I served so that you would have the right to be ashamed...and I would still serve again. I love America.

[neverending]

Well, I served so that you would have the right to be ashamed...and I would still serve again. I love America.

I thank you for your service. My father served in the Army in Europe during WW11. The hubby served with the Air Force during Viet Nam and our son served with the Air Force during Desert Storm and was in Saudi Arabia for several months. I say what I do because of what Obama continues to do to weaken this once great nation. He hates Christians. He hates Israel. He gives money to terrorists. What else could Obama do to bring us down? He wants this country weak and he loves seeing Americans struggling. He himself is gay so all this acceptance of the gay lifestyle is right down his alley. Give me the years when Pres. Reagan was in office and the world respected us.

[Apologette]

That 80% are politicians...go figure. It is still Utah Gov't that appoints Judges.

No, the decision regarding ****sexual marriages was made by a Federal judge appointed, I believe, by the Obama administration. The point is that the world is headed toward a final culmination, and one of the signs is that godless acts will escalate. Jesus predicted as much in Matthew 24. Evil is on the rise - all of us probably even see this with our own families and friends. No place is immune to the Devil's final thrust to tear down the Kingdom of God and replace it with his own. Christians are IN the world, but not OF it. With a total lack of social constraints (in the name of Cons***utional justice) I think we'll see more and more flaunt a lifestyle that is particularly singled out in Romans 1 for divine condemnation. I have a relative who is involved in a ****sexual relationship, and I have tried to share the truth but to no avail - but I'm not talking to a Christian in that instance but to someone raised completely outside a Christian influence. In these days I believe we will be attacked, belittled, and castigated from all quarters for standing for Biblical morality. We see Phil Robertson (a good Southern man by the way) expressing his views and he even lost his *** (for a while). He may have used cruder language, but this was his cultural background speaking. At least he is a Christian and isn't afraid to stand with Biblical moral views. God bless him.

[Pa Pa]

No, the decision regarding ****sexual marriages was made by a Federal judge appointed, I believe, by the Obama administration. The point is that the world is headed toward a final culmination, and one of the signs is that godless acts will escalate. Jesus predicted as much in Matthew 24. Evil is on the rise - all of us probably even see this with our own families and friends. No place is immune to the Devil's final thrust to tear down the Kingdom of God and replace it with his own. Christians are IN the world, but not OF it. With a total lack of social constraints (in the name of Cons***utional justice) I think we'll see more and more flaunt a lifestyle that is particularly singled out in Romans 1 for divine condemnation. I have a relative who is involved in a ****sexual relationship, and I have tried to share the truth but to no avail - but I'm not talking to a Christian in that instance but to someone raised completely outside a Christian influence. In these days I believe we will be attacked, belittled, and castigated from all quarters for standing for Biblical morality. We see Phil Robertson (a good Southern man by the way) expressing his views and he even lost his *** (for a while). He may have used cruder language, but this was his cultural background speaking. At least he is a Christian and isn't afraid to stand with Biblical moral views. God bless him.
I hope by quoting Romans one you are suggesting ****sexuals should die?

[nrajeffreturns]

This article pretty much shoots down the whole lie about the overturning of the law being the LDS' fault. Utah voted, with 2/3 of the vote, to define marriage as a male-female thing. The LDS church supported CA's Prop 8, and some of you antis criticized us for that, by the way.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/national/supreme-court-reviews-utah-s-same-sex-marriage-law/article_7aa001cd-7902-5c46-94a7-6626a94db145.html

[Pa Pa]

He himself is gay so all this acceptance of the gay lifestyle is right down his alley. Give me the years when Pres. Reagan was in office and the world respected us. What evidence do you have that Obama is gay? Wow, just wow! I ***ume you hate gay people and think they are worthy of death? The quote I used above you made in just unhinged. So got ahead and hate America, I would still die for her. I think your comments probably lean toward racism. I dislike him for political reason.

[Apologette]

I hope by quoting Romans one you are suggesting ****sexuals should die?

Of course not. I would hope they would repent of their sin, just as they should repent from every other sin. Tell me something, do you believe a ****sexual can change to heterosexual?

[Pa Pa]

Of course not. I would hope they would repent of their sin, just as they should repent from every other sin. Tell me something, do you believe a ****sexual can change to heterosexual?
Only when they are really bi-sexual...completely that is. People do not chose how they feel, but can chose how they act.

[James Banta]

Only when they are really bi-sexual...completely that is. People do not chose how they feel, but can chose how they act.

So you do believe that GOD has created people for the purpose of condemning them? I don't. These that are ****sexual have surrendered to strong delusion that they may believe a lie.. Sounds like the same lie you have believed.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

So you do believe that GOD has created people for the purpose of condemning them? I don't. These that are ****sexual have surrendered to strong delusion that they may believe a lie.. Sounds like the same lie you have believed.. IHS jim

That is the common lie of the LGBT agenda. And even if people do have an inclination toward this sinful lifestyle, if they love Jesus, they will remain celibate, or as Jesus said, become Eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven.

[neverending]

What evidence do you have that Obama is gay? Wow, just wow! I ***ume you hate gay people and think they are worthy of death? The quote I used above you made in just unhinged. So got ahead and hate America, I would still die for her. I think your comments probably lean toward racism. I dislike him for political reason.

I always find it sad that so many Americans haven't a clue about Obama's back ground and don't ever take time to check things out. It doesn't take long to do some checking on the internet but I will share just one article that will change your idea of who Obama is:

"In his article in WND.com, Jerome Corsi, a Harvard Ph.D. in political science, said that Obama (along with Rahm Emanuel) was a lifetime member of Man's Country, a gay bathhouse in Chicago. Obama was evidently well known there and many of the older clientele remembered him:
Investigative journalist Wayne Madsen, who worked with the National Security Agency from 1984 to 1988 as a Navy intelligence ****yst, confirmed DuJan’s claims.
“It is common knowledge in the Chicago gay community that Obama actively visited the gay bars and bathhouses in Chicago while he was an Illinois state senator,” Madsen told WND.
Obama's reputation in gay circles, by the way, was that he liked to receive oral sex but not to give it, which squares with what Larry Sinclair had said about him. (It's his "signature." And receiving **** ***s but not giving them would be consistent with Obama's narcissistic personality.)
As a member of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright's Trinity Baptist Church, Obama was known to have a close friendship with Donald Young, the openly gay choir director of the church. Young was murdered execution-style on December 23, 2007, just as Obama began his climb toward the Presidency. Another gay member of the church, Larry Bland, had also been killed execution-style a month earlier. Both cases remain unsolved. Donald Young's mother believes to this day that he was killed in order to silence him.
Jerome Corsi is dismissed by the Left as a "Tea Party activist and conspiracy theorist." But even if you regard Corsi and Madsen and Dujan with suspicion, what they say fits the larger picture of Obama's life far better than a heterosexual narrative would. The circumstantial evidence -- away from his public image as a family man -- fits the ****sexual narrative perfectly.
There is virtually no record of Obama having had any girlfriends before he married Michelle at age 28. He referred to two in his autobiography, but these were later revealed to be "composites." Are we to believe that a healthy sports-oriented young black man had no record of having chased after girls during his youth? You'd think that after he'd first been elected as President, when he was seen in such a messianic light, all sorts of women would have come forward claiming past flings. But none did.
In his autobiography, Obama stated that during his years at Columbia he spent all his time in the library and "lived like a monk." But if he spent all of his time in the library, he should have gotten excellent grades, especially given how smart he is supposed to be. Then why spend a million dollars hiring 11 lawyers to make sure his academic records were permanently sealed? It's also hard to believe that a young man who by his own admission freely imbibed drugs was otherwise inclined to live like a monk.
Another question: how many successful black men marry women far darker than themselves? If successful black men do marry black, it's often a woman so light-skinned you have to look twice to ascertain her blackness. This tends to be true of successful blacks in business, in entertainment, and in sports. Obama wasn't rich when he married Michelle, but he was a Harvard Law School graduate and did give the impression of an ambitious young man on his way up. And politically ambitious young gay men care more about beards than desirable females.
Michelle, in turn, married Barack out of ambition. She reportedly had divorce papers drawn up after he lost an election to Bobby Rush for a House seat in 2000.
When Barack was first elected President, Michelle wanted to stay in Chicago and raise their two girls there. She was quickly informed that this would not look good, so she moved to the White House.
Has a President's "body man" ever been given such prominence? Part of Reggie Love's *** as Obama's personal valet was to "wake the President up in the morning." (How could he do this without waking Michelle up at the same time?) Love reportedly worked up to 18 hours a day, "often sleeping on the burgundy couch."
The "body man" before Love was Nick Colvin, who left the White House after rumors surfaced that he had had sexual relations with Obama while Obama was a state senator. (Obama hasn't had just one Clyde Tolson, he's had two.)
And why all the snickering when Kal Penn ("Kumar" of Harold and Kumar fame, widely known to be gay in Hollywood) was working in the White House as the President's ***ociate director in the White House Office of Public Engagement? Google "Kal Penn Obama affair" and you'll get 165,000 results.
The ways in which Obama tries to compensate are telling too. His jaunty stride up to the podium is meant to project virility; and his vocal delivery, with that faux vaguely-black accent, is meant to show manliness as well. I've seen other gay guys who try too hard to appear manly, with overly emphatic movements, and it usually leaves the opposite impression.
You never, ever hear any whispers about Obama and women. Sure, there are stories about power struggles between Michelle and other women, like Oprah Winfrey and Desiree Rogers; but no stories about Barack straying with other women. I had always just ***umed that this was because he was a squeaky clean family man who was perhaps a little scared of Michelle. But for a healthy man who ascended to the Presidency at age 48, who had unheard of star power and unlimited access to women if he wanted them to never, ever indulge? That would be practically unheard of. But no, there will be no Monicas for Barack.
Obama has essentially been hiding his sexuality in plain sight all this time. In retrospect, I'm astonished at my own blindness. (There has been chatter about his sexuality on the internet for years.) But he just never set off my gaydar. And after all, he is the President of the United States, which is not a position we generally ***ociate with gayness, any more than, say, Army General.
In a way, it's almost racist not to see Obama's gayness. Sometimes it's hard to see past the blackness: we do have a tendency to ***ume all black males are high testosterone potential rapists.
Obama also has none of the sheepishness, or sense of furtiveness that we sometimes ***ociate with gays. But maybe he doesn't give off that vibe because his narcissism overrides any possible sense of embarr***ment.
I want to emphasize, there's nothing immoral about being gay; it's something you either are or you aren't, and you have no choice in the matter. But with Obama, his duplicity about his sexuality is reflective of his duplicity about practically everything else. He has employed Alinsky-ite methods to hide his gayness the same way he has employed them to hide his far left political leanings.
At this point, more than three years into Obama's Presidency, his sexuality has to be open secret in Washington. The White House press certainly knew about JFK's escapades with women at the time, but kept them quiet. They are undoubtedly performing a similar function with Obama.
(By the way, if you don't believe that Obama is gay, go ahead and laugh at me. But the truth should become much more widely known after Obama has left the Presidency, when the press no longer has a reason to protect him.) You have to wonder whose idea of a joke it was when Newsweek put out that famous cover of him with the multicolored halo over his head and ***led it, "Our first gay President." ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2933126/posts)

You offend me by saying I am a racist, which I am not. I did not vote for Obama ONLY because I am not a democrat and don't accept their platform. If he had been white, I still wouldn't have voted for him. All my life I listened to my father who was so conservative he attended John Birch meetings and many of the speakers at those meetings was Ezra Taft Benson, before he became one of your prophets. I grew up during the cold war and heard all the time about communism and the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Illuminati. Do some home work Papa because you're wandering in the dark on so many issues. The main one being your faith in a man who was not fit to call himself a prophet and made up the majority of Mormonism. Wouldn't it do you well to return to your roots and actually listen to what is being taught. All I can say about those Baptist Churches you attended as a young man, didn't teach the proper things, or you were sitting at the back of the sanctuary and not paying attention. It is now time to pay attention because eternity is a very long time.

[Apologette]

That's interesting stuff, neverending. I've heard some of it before. My big problem with Obama is the fact he claims to be a Christian but his acts and beliefs just don't measure up. Like his opposition to treatment for aborted babies born alive. That's simply outright murder! And his belief in wholesale abortion. He tries to appease Christians by claiming to be one, but I think his heart has always been with Islam. I believe he had a close Muslim friend while he was in college at Occidental. In any case, he wears a Muslim ring which he apparently got in Indonesia (where he was registered by his stepfather as a Muslim when he attended an Islamic madras). It ***erts that Allah is the true god:

This article is from Worldnet Daily:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/obamas-ring-there-is-no-god-but-allah/

[Pa Pa]

So you do believe that GOD has created people for the purpose of condemning them? I don't. These that are ****sexual have surrendered to strong delusion that they may believe a lie.. Sounds like the same lie you have believed.. IHS jim
Jim,

What are you talking about? I have a gay child, what the hell do you know about it!

[Pa Pa]

That's interesting stuff, neverending. I've heard some of it before. My big problem with Obama is the fact he claims to be a Christian but his acts and beliefs just don't measure up. Like his opposition to treatment for aborted babies born alive. That's simply outright murder! And his belief in wholesale abortion. He tries to appease Christians by claiming to be one, but I think his heart has always been with Islam. I believe he had a close Muslim friend while he was in college at Occidental. In any case, he wears a Muslim ring which he apparently got in Indonesia (where he was registered by his stepfather as a Muslim when he attended an Islamic madras). It ***erts that Allah is the true god:

This article is from Worldnet Daily:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/obamas-ring-there-is-no-god-but-allah/
I don't believe is a Christian either...but that comment by a loon that he is gay, way of the hook.

[Apologette]

Jim,

What are you talking about? I have a gay child, what the hell do you know about it!

I have a gay niece. I believe it is a choice. And if it is not, then those who would follow Jesus will become Eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God - don't you believe that? In any case, look at my post above, number 23. A thief must give up thieving. An adulterer must give up being adulterous. A murderer must stop killing. And a ****sexual must abstain from gay relationships. It's the same for all sin. Turn from it and live.

[Pa Pa]

I always find it sad that so many Americans haven't a clue about Obama's back ground and don't ever take time to check things out. It doesn't take long to do some checking on the internet but I will share just one article that will change your idea of who Obama is:

"In his article in WND.com, Jerome Corsi, a Harvard Ph.D. in political science, said that Obama (along with Rahm Emanuel) was a lifetime member of Man's Country, a gay bathhouse in Chicago. Obama was evidently well known there and many of the older clientele remembered him:
Investigative journalist Wayne Madsen, who worked with the National Security Agency from 1984 to 1988 as a Navy intelligence ****yst, confirmed DuJan’s claims.
“It is common knowledge in the Chicago gay community that Obama actively visited the gay bars and bathhouses in Chicago while he was an Illinois state senator,” Madsen told WND.
Obama's reputation in gay circles, by the way, was that he liked to receive oral sex but not to give it, which squares with what Larry Sinclair had said about him. (It's his "signature." And receiving **** ***s but not giving them would be consistent with Obama's narcissistic personality.)
As a member of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright's Trinity Baptist Church, Obama was known to have a close friendship with Donald Young, the openly gay choir director of the church. Young was murdered execution-style on December 23, 2007, just as Obama began his climb toward the Presidency. Another gay member of the church, Larry Bland, had also been killed execution-style a month earlier. Both cases remain unsolved. Donald Young's mother believes to this day that he was killed in order to silence him.
Jerome Corsi is dismissed by the Left as a "Tea Party activist and conspiracy theorist." But even if you regard Corsi and Madsen and Dujan with suspicion, what they say fits the larger picture of Obama's life far better than a heterosexual narrative would. The circumstantial evidence -- away from his public image as a family man -- fits the ****sexual narrative perfectly.
There is virtually no record of Obama having had any girlfriends before he married Michelle at age 28. He referred to two in his autobiography, but these were later revealed to be "composites." Are we to believe that a healthy sports-oriented young black man had no record of having chased after girls during his youth? You'd think that after he'd first been elected as President, when he was seen in such a messianic light, all sorts of women would have come forward claiming past flings. But none did.
In his autobiography, Obama stated that during his years at Columbia he spent all his time in the library and "lived like a monk." But if he spent all of his time in the library, he should have gotten excellent grades, especially given how smart he is supposed to be. Then why spend a million dollars hiring 11 lawyers to make sure his academic records were permanently sealed? It's also hard to believe that a young man who by his own admission freely imbibed drugs was otherwise inclined to live like a monk.
Another question: how many successful black men marry women far darker than themselves? If successful black men do marry black, it's often a woman so light-skinned you have to look twice to ascertain her blackness. This tends to be true of successful blacks in business, in entertainment, and in sports. Obama wasn't rich when he married Michelle, but he was a Harvard Law School graduate and did give the impression of an ambitious young man on his way up. And politically ambitious young gay men care more about beards than desirable females.
Michelle, in turn, married Barack out of ambition. She reportedly had divorce papers drawn up after he lost an election to Bobby Rush for a House seat in 2000.
When Barack was first elected President, Michelle wanted to stay in Chicago and raise their two girls there. She was quickly informed that this would not look good, so she moved to the White House.
Has a President's "body man" ever been given such prominence? Part of Reggie Love's *** as Obama's personal valet was to "wake the President up in the morning." (How could he do this without waking Michelle up at the same time?) Love reportedly worked up to 18 hours a day, "often sleeping on the burgundy couch."
The "body man" before Love was Nick Colvin, who left the White House after rumors surfaced that he had had sexual relations with Obama while Obama was a state senator. (Obama hasn't had just one Clyde Tolson, he's had two.)
And why all the snickering when Kal Penn ("Kumar" of Harold and Kumar fame, widely known to be gay in Hollywood) was working in the White House as the President's ***ociate director in the White House Office of Public Engagement? Google "Kal Penn Obama affair" and you'll get 165,000 results.
The ways in which Obama tries to compensate are telling too. His jaunty stride up to the podium is meant to project virility; and his vocal delivery, with that faux vaguely-black accent, is meant to show manliness as well. I've seen other gay guys who try too hard to appear manly, with overly emphatic movements, and it usually leaves the opposite impression.
You never, ever hear any whispers about Obama and women. Sure, there are stories about power struggles between Michelle and other women, like Oprah Winfrey and Desiree Rogers; but no stories about Barack straying with other women. I had always just ***umed that this was because he was a squeaky clean family man who was perhaps a little scared of Michelle. But for a healthy man who ascended to the Presidency at age 48, who had unheard of star power and unlimited access to women if he wanted them to never, ever indulge? That would be practically unheard of. But no, there will be no Monicas for Barack.
Obama has essentially been hiding his sexuality in plain sight all this time. In retrospect, I'm astonished at my own blindness. (There has been chatter about his sexuality on the internet for years.) But he just never set off my gaydar. And after all, he is the President of the United States, which is not a position we generally ***ociate with gayness, any more than, say, Army General.
In a way, it's almost racist not to see Obama's gayness. Sometimes it's hard to see past the blackness: we do have a tendency to ***ume all black males are high testosterone potential rapists.
Obama also has none of the sheepishness, or sense of furtiveness that we sometimes ***ociate with gays. But maybe he doesn't give off that vibe because his narcissism overrides any possible sense of embarr***ment.
I want to emphasize, there's nothing immoral about being gay; it's something you either are or you aren't, and you have no choice in the matter. But with Obama, his duplicity about his sexuality is reflective of his duplicity about practically everything else. He has employed Alinsky-ite methods to hide his gayness the same way he has employed them to hide his far left political leanings.
At this point, more than three years into Obama's Presidency, his sexuality has to be open secret in Washington. The White House press certainly knew about JFK's escapades with women at the time, but kept them quiet. They are undoubtedly performing a similar function with Obama.
(By the way, if you don't believe that Obama is gay, go ahead and laugh at me. But the truth should become much more widely known after Obama has left the Presidency, when the press no longer has a reason to protect him.) You have to wonder whose idea of a joke it was when Newsweek put out that famous cover of him with the multicolored halo over his head and ***led it, "Our first gay President." ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2933126/posts)

You offend me by saying I am a racist, which I am not. I did not vote for Obama ONLY because I am not a democrat and don't accept their platform. If he had been white, I still wouldn't have voted for him. All my life I listened to my father who was so conservative he attended John Birch meetings and many of the speakers at those meetings was Ezra Taft Benson, before he became one of your prophets. I grew up during the cold war and heard all the time about communism and the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Illuminati. Do some home work Papa because you're wandering in the dark on so many issues. The main one being your faith in a man who was not fit to call himself a prophet and made up the majority of Mormonism. Wouldn't it do you well to return to your roots and actually listen to what is being taught. All I can say about those Baptist Churches you attended as a young man, didn't teach the proper things, or you were sitting at the back of the sanctuary and not paying attention. It is now time to pay attention because eternity is a very long time. What are you a member of the John Birch society?

[Apologette]

What are you a member of the John Birch society?

Look at post #23 above which quotes from Worldnet Daily, a Christian publication. Hardly a John Birch newspaper.

[Pa Pa]

Look at post #23 above which quotes from Worldnet Daily, a Christian publication. Hardly a John Birch newspaper.And you wonder why many think Christianity died...I suppose if they called him the "N" word you would print that and support it. I guess too you think he was not born is this country.

[Apologette]

And you wonder why many think Christianity died...I suppose if they called him the "N" word you would print that and support it. I guess too you think he was not born is this country.

Did you even look at that article from Worldnet Daily? Where does it have anything to do with the N word? You are just trying to play the race card, and it won't work with me, Papa. Now read the article which has good documentation here:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/obamas-ring-there-is-no-god-but-allah/

One of the major problems I have with those who have rejected Christianity for Joseph Smith is their failure to actually apply themselves to study.

[neverending]

What are you a member of the John Birch society?

And what if I were? Would you have a problem with that knowledge? You do see that our country is being lead by a man who is a liar, a fraud and a ****sexual. He is like a wolf in sheep's clothing, fooling many. I thank God that he gave me the gift of discernment for I can meet a person one time and know whether or not they can be a friend. This has been with me for as long as I can remember. Papa, I sincerely pray for your salvation. The Lord is still there, the true God of the Bible. He is waiting for you with open arms and ready to give you HIS gift, His free gift of everlasting life. Won't you reach out and take it?

[Pa Pa]

And what if I were? Would you have a problem with that knowledge? You do see that our country is being lead by a man who is a liar, a fraud and a ****sexual. He is like a wolf in sheep's clothing, fooling many. I thank God that he gave me the gift of discernment for I can meet a person one time and know whether or not they can be a friend. This has been with me for as long as I can remember. Papa, I sincerely pray for your salvation. The Lord is still there, the true God of the Bible. He is waiting for you with open arms and ready to give you HIS gift, His free gift of everlasting life. Won't you reach out and take it?So you are a member, see a a communist behind ever bush. I have salvation already.

[neverending]

So you are a member, see a a communist behind ever bush. I have salvation already.

Jumping to conclusions are you? I too have salvation already since I have faith and trust in the ONE true God. And what does belonging to the John Birch Society, a political organization have to do with religion and salvation?

[dberrie2000]

[SIZE=3]Jumping to conclusions are you? I too have salvation already since I have faith and trust in the ONE true God.

Would that One true God be this one?


John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

[Pa Pa]

Jumping to conclusions are you? I too have salvation already since I have faith and trust in the ONE true God. And what does belonging to the John Birch Society, a political organization have to do with religion and salvation? John Birch society, points out valid things, but they hate gay people as you do and are a bunch of 9/11 truthers.

[James Banta]

John Birch society, points out valid things, but they hate gay people as you do and are a bunch of 9/11 truthers.

I know her better than you do and NE hates no one.. She does hate sin and will not allow anyone that lives in sin to hold office in the church.. Does mormonism allow openly gay men to be bishops or those who are living with a "partner" to be priesthood holders? No? NE would never attend a church that was pastured by a gay pastor.. She wouldn't join a church that had gay elders, or deacons..

As for the JBS that is all political and has nothing to do with whether a man, or a woman has faith in Jesus unto salvation.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

I know her better than you do and NE hates no one.. She does hate sin and will not allow anyone that lives in sin to hold office in the church.. Does mormonism allow openly gay men to be bishops or those who are living with a "partner" to be priesthood holders? No? NE would never attend a church that was pastured by a gay pastor.. She wouldn't join a church that had gay elders, or deacons..

As for the JBS that is all political and has nothing to do with whether a man, or a woman has faith in Jesus unto salvation.. IHS jimNoble that you are defending her, but she did ask what is wrong with the John Birch Society...also they don't consider themselves as political org, just a group involved to educate.

[James Banta]

I know what God has said about it..

Lev 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:26-27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

I also know that God doesn't want to see any perish but for all to come to Him in repentance (2 Peter 3:9). The question is how can a loving God create people with the natural desire for the same sex if being ****sexual is an abomination in His sight, a vile affection.. Maybe because HE didn't make them that way. That it isn't natural? But the acceptance of this abomination this VILE affection would seems as though it is accepted as natural by the LDS.. They have a pick and choose religion. If they don't like what the Bible teaches they either ignore it or call it mistranslated. Is your child a good caring person? I bet they are, but being Gay according to God they are a vile abomination in His sight..

I don't know when your child became gay, neither do you. But it would appear that I do know more about the way God sees it than you are willing to accept. I also know that this is not a sin that is unforgivable. It is more more serious in God's eyes than lying or being faithless. It is also no less serious than adultery or murder (James 2:10).. The main difference here is that those that involve themselves in this abomination live in this sin.. It becomes who they are not just a sin they commit.. So tell me again that I am S T U P I D and don't understand what I am saying? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Noble that you are defending her, but she did ask what is wrong with the John Birch Society...also they don't consider themselves as political org, just a group involved to educate.

And they educate others on weather systems, or is it accounting? Maybe they teach medicine? No, what they teach is all political.. It doesn't belong on this site because it has nothing to do with either the truth of God's word or the error of mormonism.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

I have a gay niece. I believe it is a choice. And if it is not, then those who would follow Jesus will become Eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God - don't you believe that? In any case, look at my post above, number 23. A thief must give up thieving. An adulterer must give up being adulterous. A murderer must stop killing. And a ****sexual must abstain from gay relationships. It's the same for all sin. Turn from it and live.
I do believe that, that should remain celebrate...as does my Church. But her sin will not keep me from keeping her close. My children and grandchildren are the air that I breath. But being gay is "not" a choice. My child never showed any interest in guy...not ever. But I believe all can chose how they act. This is where choice is an option. Just as I was in the military and at times spent long periods, but I remained true to my wife, I did not use it as an excuse. In fact I have known only woman...in the Biblical sense. :)

[James Banta]

I do believe that, that should remain celebrate...as does my Church. But her sin will not keep me from keeping her close. My children and grandchildren are the air that I breath. But being gay is "not" a choice. My child never showed any interest in guy...not ever. But I believe all can chose how they act. This is where choice is an option. Just as I was in the military and at times spent long periods, but I remained true to my wife, I did not use it as an excuse. In fact I have known only woman...in the Biblical sense. :)

If you are one that loves his family more than God and that is what I hear you saying here. saying that your love for them superseads all else then I call you to repentance.

Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Believing that Jesus is God, that He has given us His word (the Bible) is part of loving Him. You deny His word to protect your child. That is a sin you need to take to Jesus.. IHS jim

[neverending]

I do believe that, that should remain celebrate...as does my Church. But her sin will not keep me from keeping her close. My children and grandchildren are the air that I breath. But being gay is "not" a choice. My child never showed any interest in guy...not ever. But I believe all can chose how they act. This is where choice is an option. Just as I was in the military and at times spent long periods, but I remained true to my wife, I did not use it as an excuse. In fact I have known only woman...in the Biblical sense. :)

As a mother of two children, my only desire for them was and is for them to be happy. I know they both are at this time, it wasn't so for my son for many years but he has found a wonderful woman who is now expecting our 9th grandchild.
My oldest brother was gay and my heart broke for him. He is no longer with us having p***ed away when he was only 57 of a stroke. I miss him everyday. I knew how hard his life was, he was a Mormon, went on a mission to New York State and was even in the Hill Cumorah Pageant. My father was very critical of him because he was different and enjoyed music and didn't care for the same things as my father who was an outdoorsman. My brother and I shared so much together and we could talk over the phone for hours, talking about anything; I think that is what I miss most.
Knowing he was gay, and knowing how God condemns that kind of behavior, it wasn't something we would discuss for I know how guilty he felt about it. He never had a partner nor acted on his attraction for other men but I know he was very unhappy. The last 5 years of his life was so hard but I felt I was there for him and did what I could to be of help and let him know he was loved.
So, as a parent like you, that is all you can do; love your child and keep the lines of communication open. Why some children are born to become gay, I don't know. I sometimes wonder if it is a case of Nurture vs Nature. As with my brother because my father was so critical of him and never showed any love for him, I have wondered if that is what lead to the gay feelings. My mother over protected my brother as well and never wanted him to have a life of his own. He lived at home his entire life except for the two years he was on his mission. A very, sad life indeed.
Now please don't think I am saying that this is why your child is gay, I am no expert on the subject and can only speak about what I saw within my own family. Being gay is still a sin just as lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery are all sins. God can't accept sin, it was why Jesus came to earth, to take upon himself the sins of the world. In so doing, he took our sins, giving us his righteousness and his shed blood has cleansed us from all sin (1 John 1:7). Just love your child is all you can do.

[Apologette]

I do believe that, that should remain celebrate...as does my Church. But her sin will not keep me from keeping her close. My children and grandchildren are the air that I breath. But being gay is "not" a choice. My child never showed any interest in guy...not ever. But I believe all can chose how they act. This is where choice is an option. Just as I was in the military and at times spent long periods, but I remained true to my wife, I did not use it as an excuse. In fact I have known only woman...in the Biblical sense. :)

Who said you have to be alienated from a gay child? Although, I've heard of a man in the Calvary Chapels group who is married and has nine children, and gives his testimony frequently. God delivered him from ****sexuality!

[Apologette]

Jumping to conclusions are you? I too have salvation already since I have faith and trust in the ONE true God. And what does belonging to the John Birch Society, a political organization have to do with religion and salvation?
Mormons have no salvation, and the fact is that the John Birch Society was strongly supported by the Mormon prophet, Ezra Taft Benson. I attended one of their meetings which was promoting Reagan's star wars in***iave. Turned out they were very right and the leftist were out to lunch! There are those, today, who are Communist in their thinking, but we call them "progressive" Democrats! Supporters of abortion, gay marriage and supporters of every liberal initiative that comes down the pike! They have no love for traditional Christian values at all - they despise the Word of God and seek to transform this American society into a culture patterned after something found in Venezuela! They pound their fists on the table and say, "what difference does it make," when confronted with the failure of this country to protect Americans in Benghazi. Tell you what, if Americans elect a "progressive" like Clinton to the Presidency then they deserve her and we should all start looking at Belize as a better place to live!

[dberrie2000]

NO! This is about gays who continue to push their lifestyles onto the world. And about a Federal Court Judge Shelby who instead of upholding laws is making them. What is so shameful about this is seeing how many people here within the Salt Lake Valley who wanted marriage licenses. The County Complex was crawling with the deviants. And watching the TV news and seeing men kissing men and woman kissing woman, made my stomach turn. God will judge these people but I wish we didn't have to see it every where we go.
BTW, how many of these deviants were Mormons? To ***ume that people have left Mormonism is just that, ***uming for we don't know and I am sure there were many that are members. What is Pres. Monson going to say now? The LDS Church has only said that gays are welcome as long as they don't succumb to their desires. Well, if these people are now married they most certainly will succumb to their desires and will engage in sexual activities. Is your church going to excommunicate these members?

Any member who enjoins a same sex marriage will probably be excommunicated. My question is--what happens to the same sex partners in a Protestant church--if they are Protestant?

[neverending]

Any member who enjoins a same sex marriage will probably be excommunicated. My question is--what happens to the same sex partners in a Protestant church--if they are Protestant?

Those who are members of a Protestant Church such as the Methodists, some Lutherans and Presbyterians accept gay pastors and any are welcome to attend church services. Any Christian Church for that matter welcomes gay people as well. The Bible teaching and believing churches would not allow any gay person to hold any church position, which means, Elder or Deacon nor could one even teach Sunday School or lead a Bible Study if they are openly gay and have a sexual partner.
What does the LDS Church do now? How many of the over 1,200 marriages that took place last week here in Salt Lake County had someone who was LDS? As of this moment, I've not heard anything from your church other then gay people are welcome to participate in all meetings etc. Can a gay person obtain a temple recommend? Why hasn't Pres. Monson made any statement after last week? The silence is deafening. What in your opinion makes a person gay? Is it when they act on their feelings and have sexual relations with someone of the same sex?
All I can say is, if a person is gay but doesn't act on their attraction then they are welcome within a Protestant Church. I for one do not accept clergy who are openly gay and have a partner or partners. I accept what God has told us within his word, The Bible and God has condemned a gay lifestyle.

[dberrie2000]

Those who are members of a Protestant Church such as the Methodists, some Lutherans and Presbyterians accept gay pastors and any are welcome to attend church services. Any Christian Church for that matter welcomes gay people as well. The Bible teaching and believing churches would not allow any gay person to hold any church position, which means, Elder or Deacon nor could one even teach Sunday School or lead a Bible Study if they are openly gay and have a sexual partner.

One is always welcome to attend the LDS church--but the LDS chuch would not baptize anyone who did not covenant to obey Christ--IE--if one were committing adultery--the LDS church would not baptized them until they had repented of it.

So--a question for you. Would your church baptized one who was actively gay?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If repentance and water baptism was for the remission of sins--then it would be useless to baptize one who was still in the act of adultery--or a gay relationship--would it not?


Matthew 3:7-10----King James Version (KJV)


7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


Can a gay person obtain a temple recommend?

Yes--if they are not actively gay.


Why hasn't Pres. Monson made any statement after last week? The silence is deafening. What in your opinion makes a person gay? Is it when they act on their feelings and have sexual relations with someone of the same sex?

I have no idea what "makes" a person gay. As long as gays do not actively engage in gay behavior--they can share all the blessings of the LDS church. I believe one can be gay and not act on that impulse. I personally believe there are a number of gay people who marry a spouse and raise children in heterosexual preference--without ever acting on their urges.


All I can say is, if a person is gay but doesn't act on their attraction then they are welcome within a Protestant Church.

The gays are welcome either way--as far as attendance goes. But the LDS will not baptize one until they repent.


I for one do not accept clergy who are openly gay and have a partner or partners. I accept what God has told us within his word, The Bible and God has condemned a gay lifestyle.

We agree there.

[neverending]

John Birch society, points out valid things, but they hate gay people as you do and are a bunch of 9/11 truthers.

Papa,
I sure hate people accusing me of something that I've not done or said. Please show me where I said I hated gays. I even shared with you about my brother who was gay and the close relationship we had, how is that hating gays? For a month my brother lived with Jim and I after he got Bells Palsy and couldn't even stand up, he had to crawl to get to the bathroom and afterwards, he would throw up due to severe nausea. I waited on him hand and foot. I even helped with getting him bathed one day. I got him a urinal to use like what a man is given when in the hospital so if during the night he needed to pee he could use that and not worry about having to crawl to the bathroom. I emptied that for him daily. Now tell me if that isn't love? I also have a very dear friend and old co-worker who is gay and lives with his partner and has for 27 years. I've helped him as well going so far as to pay for him to have a walk-in tub so he could bathe without worry of falling. I didn't have to do that for him but since we both worked together in a Long Term Facility, I couldn't bear the thought of him having to go to one. Again, is that not love?
Papa, to make such statements about a person when you really know nothing about them is wrong and bearing false witness. You owe me an apology.

[Pa Pa]

And they educate others on weather systems, or is it accounting? Maybe they teach medicine? No, what they teach is all political.. It doesn't belong on this site because it has nothing to do with either the truth of God's word or the error of mormonism.. IHS jimBeing cute are we?

[neverending]

Being cute are we?

This is all you can say? Still waiting for my apology. And my advise for you is to take your head out of the sand and do some research. Being ignorant of what is going on in this country is the reason we are stuck with Obama and his lies and fraud. You think he won the election fair and square? Do you really believe he was born in Hawaii? Why was the only person who was around when Obama might have been born in Hawaii, killed in a small plane crash just before Christmas. She was the only one aboard that died. Why have two individuals who knew Obama during college and when he was living in Chicago found dead, killed execution style within one month of each other? The one was a known gay man who was the choir director for the church Obama attended. Seems to convenient to me as these crimes have not been solved.
Now, why hasn't the LDS Church said anything about all the marriages for same sex couples that took place last week. Some of those people had to be LDS. dberrie said, "they might be excommunicated." Might? Guess whenever I post something, you avoid reading it.

[Pa Pa]

This is all you can say? Still waiting for my apology. And my advise for you is to take your head out of the sand and do some research. Being ignorant of what is going on in this country is the reason we are stuck with Obama and his lies and fraud. You think he won the election fair and square? Do you really believe he was born in Hawaii? Why was the only person who was around when Obama might have been born in Hawaii, killed in a small plane crash just before Christmas. She was the only one aboard that died. Why have two individuals who knew Obama during college and when he was living in Chicago found dead, killed execution style within one month of each other? The one was a known gay man who was the choir director for the church Obama attended. Seems to convenient to me as these crimes have no been solved.
Now, why hasn't the LDS Church said anything about all the marriages for same sex couples that took place last week. Some of those people had to be LDS. dberrie said, "they might be excommunicated." Might? Guess whenever I post something, you avoid reading it.
My comment was directed at Jim, to which you are replying.

[James Banta]

Being cute are we?

Many would say that I'm cute.. Some would call me ugly.. What I have said here stands.. IHS jim

[neverending]

My comment was directed at Jim, to which you are replying.

Look, you post here on a public forum so anyone can make a comment. You want to tell Jim something in private, then you'll need to send him a message. GEESH! From what I have been reading from you these past few days, I can see a man who truly is in need of being educated.
How about I don't comment to you anymore.

[nrajeffreturns]

Papa,
I sure hate people accusing me of something that I've not done or said. Please show me where I said I hated gays. I even shared with you about my brother who was gay and the close relationship we had, how is that hating gays? For a month my brother lived with Jim and I after he got Bells Palsy and couldn't even stand up, he had to crawl to get to the bathroom and afterwards, he would throw up due to severe nausea. I waited on him hand and foot. I even helped with getting him bathed one day. I got him a urinal to use like what a man is given when in the hospital so if during the night he needed to pee he could use that and not worry about having to crawl to the bathroom. I emptied that for him daily. Now tell me if that isn't love? I also have a very dear friend and old co-worker who is gay and lives with his partner and has for 27 years. I've helped him as well going so far as to pay for him to have a walk-in tub so he could bathe without worry of falling. I didn't have to do that for him but since we both worked together in a Long Term Facility, I couldn't bear the thought of him having to go to one. Again, is that not love?
Papa, to make such statements about a person when you really know nothing about them is wrong and bearing false witness. You owe me an apology.

A lady in our ward, who is a friend and was a great RS president, got Bell's Palsy some years ago, and it really messed her up for a while. I feel sorry for anyone who gets it.

As for excommunicating any of the gay couples who just got married-- if they were LDS, I'd bet there will be consequences, but not necessarily excommunication in every case because certain individual circumstances are considered, on a case by case basis.

[nrajeffreturns]

Mormons have no salvation, ...

Is that because "Jesus didn't die for Mormons" ?

As for the JBS, I agree with some of their statements, but they do seem a little extremist in some areas, such as "Fluoride in our water is a Commie plot to poison us and make us so retarded that they can take over the USA with no resistance."

[Pa Pa]

Look, you post here on a public forum so anyone can make a comment. You want to tell Jim something in private, then you'll need to send him a message. GEESH! From what I have been reading from you these past few days, I can see a man who truly is in need of being educated.
How about I don't comment to you anymore. I sores that neither of you are not allowed here?

[Pa Pa]

A lady in our ward, who is a friend and was a great RS president, got Bell's Palsy some years ago, and it really messed her up for a while. I feel sorry for anyone who gets it.

As for excommunicating any of the gay couples who just got married-- if they were LDS, I'd bet there will be consequences, but not necessarily excommunication in every case because certain individual circumstances are considered, on a case by case basis.Also unless a member comes in and tell the Bishop of their transgression, no action is taken. Unless the sin is very much in the press. I once sat on a Church counsel about someone being gay...but he was ex'ed for stealing Church funds.

[neverending]

Also unless a member comes in and tell the Bishop of their transgression, no action is taken. Unless the sin is very much in the press. I once sat on a Church counsel about someone being gay...but he was ex'ed for stealing Church funds.

This is interesting, that your church felt that stealing was more of a sin then being gay. Maybe this poor individual didn't act on his/her attraction to their same sex but still, is the thoughts not a sin as well?

[neverending]

I sores that neither of you are not allowed here?


Papa, this one sentence made no sense. Would you like to explain it for me? Maybe I am being a bit dense but again this made no sense at all.

[neverending]

UPDATE! WE JUST HEARD THAT UTAH WAS GIVEN A STAY. That now means our Attorney General will be very busy putting together the briefs that are needed to fight this Federal Court for what the majority of Utahns want. We already had an Amendment that 66% of Utahns voted for stating that marriage is between one man and one woman. May that law stand.

[nrajeffreturns]

Also unless a member comes in and tell the Bishop of their transgression, no action is taken. Unless the sin is very much in the press. I once sat on a Church counsel about someone being gay...but he was ex'ed for stealing Church funds.

That is a good point.

[nrajeffreturns]

This is interesting, that your church felt that stealing was more of a sin then being gay. Maybe this poor individual didn't act on his/her attraction to their same sex but still, is the thoughts not a sin as well?

So you think all churches should excommunicate all members who think gay thoughts, and who think about stealing? How many members will be left in the churches of Christendom, after you're done?

[neverending]

That is a good point.

According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right? So, if someone is thinking evil thoughts shouldn't that person take that to their Bishop? After all, isn't he a judge in Israel and isn't he going to be able to counsel that person? As far as I'm concerned, the only one who I need to go to is God and of course anyone I have offended. Seems J. Smith took the idea from the Catholics, only Mormons don't need to do 10 hail Mary's etc. to be forgiven.

[Apologette]

According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right? So, if someone is thinking evil thoughts shouldn't that person take that to their Bishop? After all, isn't he a judge in Israel and isn't he going to be able to counsel that person? As far as I'm concerned, the only one who I need to go to is God and of course anyone I have offended. Seems J. Smith took the idea from the Catholics, only Mormons don't need to do 10 hail Mary's etc. to be forgiven.

Mormonism and Romanism are two peas in a pod!

[nrajeffreturns]

According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right?
WRONG. You are making it very hard to believe that you really were ever LDS.


So, if someone is thinking evil thoughts shouldn't that person take that to their Bishop?
No, God, and bishops, don't expect everyone to take every bad thought they have to their bishop every time they have such thoughts. If they did, the bishop would be spending every minute of every day hearing people's thoughts.

Are you SURE you used to be LDS?

[neverending]

WRONG. You are making it very hard to believe that you really were ever LDS.


No, God, and bishops, don't expect everyone to take every bad thought they have to their bishop every time they have such thoughts. If they did, the bishop would be spending every minute of every day hearing people's thoughts.

Are you SURE you used to be LDS?

Doesn't look like you understood what I was saying. If, a person is having evil thoughts, shouldn't that person go to their Bishop and be counseled? That is what I was saying, not that every person who has an evil thought should go running to their Bishop because you and I both know that men especially have evil thoughts many times a day. But, didn't Christ say, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Sorry I didn't make my comment more plain. With what Christ told the mul***ude, our thoughts are evil and that is sin even if we don't give into those thoughts. Some people can get obsessed with evil thoughts and isn't it then that a Mormon should go to their Bishop? This is what I should have stated to begin with.

As for me having been LDS....you can think what you want. I was born and raised in your faith, married in the Cardston, Alberta, Canada temple on Sept. 1, 1971 to James Banta. I held many church positions the highest being the Primary Secretary of the Branch we were members of in Grand Forks, ND. We lived there while James served our country in the Air Force. I also taught the Beehive cl*** in Mutual, taught Sunday School, taught Primary and of course was a Visiting Teacher for the Relief Society. My father was a temple worker in the Salt Lake Temple for seven years before he p***ed away. He and my mother also were Extraction Missionaries as well. Out of my siblings, I was the only one married in the temple. My oldest brother was gay and never married, my other brother stopped going to church when he was 17, got his girlfriend pregnant and ran to Las Vegas to get married. He still is not an active member and from the few conversations I've had with him, he doesn't believe in anything. So, NRA, believe what you want. Also know it has been over 33 years since I left your church and since that time, I've seen some major changes to your ordinances, things that were never to be changed along with many changes to the BoM.

[nrajeffreturns]

Quoting you:

"According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right?"

There is no simpler way to answer that than to say "No. That is not right."

[James Banta]

Quoting you:

"According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right?"

There is no simpler way to answer that than to say "No. That is not right."

Jeff please understand.. NE wasn't saying that in LDS doctrine that all sin must be taking to the Bishop.. She was saying that if you are struggling with a sin whether is is one that they consider large or small they should take it to their Bishop for support in overcoming it.. So what is so much outside LDS doctrine with that you would make any accusation against her? Personally I believe the Bible that teaches that there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and man and that is Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5 ).. Mormonism requires a man get involved in what they call serious sin in order to completely repent. The Bible says Jesus and only Jesus can handle the problem.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Jeff please understand.. NE wasn't saying that in LDS doctrine that all sin must be taking to the Bishop.. She was saying that if you are struggling with a sin whether is is one that they consider large or small they should take it to their Bishop for support in overcoming it.
Okay, I can address that version: That is part of the responsibilities of pastors--to be like shepherds, guiding the sheep they're responsible for, so they safely arrive at their destination.

That includes meeting and praying with the sheep, offering advice, and recommending scriptures to read, to help the sheep who are struggling. And usually, the way the pastor becomes aware that a sheep is struggling, is by the sheep telling him it needs help.


The Bible says Jesus and only Jesus can handle the problem.. IHS jim
The Bible says Jesus, as our intercessor, pleads our case to the Father, but the Bible doesn't say that pastors shouldn't counsel the members who are struggling.

[Apologette]

This is interesting, that your church felt that stealing was more of a sin then being gay. Maybe this poor individual didn't act on his/her attraction to their same sex but still, is the thoughts not a sin as well?

Maybe they also think that wearing more than one earring in an ear is the ultimate sin! Lying isn't very high on their "sin" list - Joe Smith did it all the time and got away with it - and the Mormons here are so conditioned that they believe all the Satanic drivel that fell from his lips!