Where is the SALT of mormonism?

[James Banta]

Jesus calls His children to be the Salt of the earth? What is the purpose of salt? It is to resist corruption.. And yet Utah has been p***ing out marriage licenses to hundreds of Gay couples all over the state.. Well over a thousand "couples" applied for marriages licenses as soon as the court ruled Utah's marriage laws uncons***utional. Thousands, not just a few.. And what does the Gay rights parade in Salt Lake every year say about the level of corruption in the state? Mormonism is NOT SALT.. Think.. When was the last time a openly gay mormon was excommunicated from the LDS church? I will tell you right now such a person wouldn't last a week trying to remain part of a Christian church.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Jesus calls His children to be the Salt of the earth? What is the purpose of salt? It is to resist corruption.. And yet Utah has been p***ing out marriage licenses to hundreds of Gay couples all over the state.. Well over a thousand "couples" applied for marriages licenses as soon as the court ruled Utah's marriage laws uncons***utional. Thousands, not just a few.. And what does the Gay rights parade in Salt Lake every year say about the level of corruption in the state? Mormonism is NOT SALT.. Think.. When was the last time a openly gay mormon was excommunicated from the LDS church? I will tell you right now such a person wouldn't last a week trying to remain part of a Christian church.. IHS jim
You'd think if the Mormons were really the ONLY true church on the face of the whole earth, they'd be up in arms. But only silence from the Board Room!

[neverending]

You'd think if the Mormons were really the ONLY true church on the face of the whole earth, they'd be up in arms. But only silence from the Board Room!

Yes, I've noticed that no Mormon seems to have an opinion, so with the silence we must ***ume that they approve of the new law here in Utah. I saddens me to know end to see my home State being forced to allow the deviants to continue to brag about their lifestyle and blatantly with giddiness, kissing as they are pronounced, husband and husband or wife and wife. It seems these people are multiplying by the day. The LDS Church has only white washed their stance with, "we are accepting of gays, and lesbians as long as they don't act on their desires." Well, if these deviants are now getting married we know that they WILL be acting out their desires. It turns my stomach. God designed that man would be with woman and He has condemned ****sexuality several times within His word.
We know we're living in the end times when evil is called good and good is called evil. God we await your coming.

[Erundur]

And yet Utah has been p***ing out marriage licenses to hundreds of Gay couples all over the state..
You seem to be conflating Utah and the Church of Jesus Christ...

[James Banta]

You seem to be conflating Utah and the Church of Jesus Christ...

Yes, and your point is what? IHS jim

[Erundur]

Yes, and your point is what?
Seriously? My point is that you're wrong. They are two different en***ies.

[neverending]

Seriously? My point is that you're wrong. They are two different en***ies.

Richard,
Oh, I see.....you're the only person here who knows anything and is always right? PLEASE!! If you aren't going to support your church's doctrines, you are wasting my time and every other Christian here. Why not do us all a favor and leave if you are to afraid to support anything. Your comments are of no value.

[Erundur]

Oh, I see.....you're the only person here who knows anything and is always right? PLEASE!!
Gotta love the melodrama...


If you aren't going to support your church's doctrines, you are wasting my time and every other Christian here.
I have every intention of supporting my church's doctrines, but it is not a doctrine of my church that the State of Utah and the Church of Jesus Christ are the same en***y. In fact, that's not a position held by any rational person.


Why not do us all a favor and leave if you are to afraid to support anything. Your comments are of no value.
You sound awfully desperate to get rid of me. That's okay, I'd be terrified of me, too, if I were you.

[neverending]

Gotta love the melodrama...


I have every intention of supporting my church's doctrines, but it is not a doctrine of my church that the State of Utah and the Church of Jesus Christ are the same en***y. In fact, that's not a position held by any rational person.


You sound awfully desperate to get rid of me. That's okay, I'd be terrified of me, too, if I were you.

Oh, my goodness!!! Are you threatening me now?? Where are your comments that support your doctrines? I am still waiting to see even one. I will now say, you can't!! That you have NO desire to do so because frankly, you have no honesty, nor knowledge to discuss anything here other then your veiled threats towards a woman. WOW....how brave of you.....NOT!! And don't think I can't or won't find out who you are if this continues. Either discuss Mormonism or get off this site! :mad:

[RealFakeHair]

Seriously? My point is that you're wrong. They are two different en***ies.

Once again the LDSinc. Waits and sticks its finger in the air. PC once again is working here. No bad PR for now.

[Erundur]

Oh, my goodness!!! Are you threatening me now??
ROFL! Not only melodramatic, but paranoid as well!


And don't think I can't or won't find out who you are if this continues.
Why, neverending, are you threatening me? Sounds like you have no honesty, nor knowledge to discuss anything here other than your veiled threats towards a complete stranger. :p

[neverending]

ROFL! Not only melodramatic, but paranoid as well!


Why, neverending, are you threatening me? Sounds like you have no honesty, nor knowledge to discuss anything here other than your veiled threats towards a complete stranger. :p

Thing is, you're NO stranger! You are Richard, the King of Lies, deception and ignorance!! And you're also the King of TROLLS here! Congrats!! Now, I have better things to do then send comments to a person of such low character.

[Erundur]

Thing is, you're NO stranger! You are Richard, the King of Lies, deception and ignorance!!
No, I'm not. Yet another thing you're wrong about. :D

[James Banta]

Once again the LDSinc. Waits and sticks its finger in the air. PC once again is working here. No bad PR for now.

It's a simple thing to come in here and say "You're wrong" with nothing to support that denial.. This is what I use to support my ***ertion that the state of Utah is operated under the influence of the LDS church..

1. Ezra Taft Benson was quoted by the ***ociated Press that it would be difficult for a faithful Latter-day Saint to be a liberal Democrat (Salt Lake Tribune May 3, 1998).
2. About 80% of Utah's Legislature are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Deseret Morning News, March 15, 2006).

It is clear that the LARGELY Utah State Legislature brings their LDS teachings with them into their ***s as representatives of the people. For as it has been said by official LDS source "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)."

The overwhelming LDS membership of all Utah State leadership remembers that statement as they go to work on the people's business.. IHS jim

[neverending]

It's a simple thing to come in here and say "You're wrong" with nothing to support that denial.. This is what I use to support my ***ertion that the state of Utah is operated under the influence of the LDS church..

1. Ezra Taft Benson was quoted by the ***ociated Press that it would be difficult for a faithful Latter-day Saint to be a liberal Democrat (Salt Lake Tribune May 3, 1998).
2. About 80% of Utah's Legislature are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Deseret Morning News, March 15, 2006).

It is clear that the LARGELY Utah State Legislature brings their LDS teachings with them into their ***s as representatives of the people. For as it has been said by official LDS source "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)."

The overwhelming LDS membership of all Utah State leadership remembers that statement as they go to work on the people's business.. IHS jim

Yes, it is a real shame that the LDS members can't think for themselves. It's also a shame to see that one man here must have had a terrible childhood since they constantly have to keep reminding themselves that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Poor guy, he never got any pats on the back growing up, not that that doesn't surprise me knowing all the pressures an LDS father puts on their sons.

[Erundur]

And yet Utah has been p***ing out marriage licenses to hundreds of Gay couples all over the state..
Yes, counties in Utah have begun issuing gay marriage licenses (only because a federal overlord forced them to). However, in contrast to many protestant churches,* the Church of Jesus Christ does not perform gay marriages. Therefore, I conclude that Mormonism has more salt than protestantism.

*See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessing_of_same-sex_unions_in_Christian_churches

[James Banta]

Yes, counties in Utah have begun issuing gay marriage licenses (only because a federal overlord forced them to). However, in contrast to many protestant churches,* the Church of Jesus Christ does not perform gay marriages. Therefore, I conclude that Mormonism has more salt than protestantism.

*See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessing_of_same-sex_unions_in_Christian_churches

Like most LDS you wouldn't know the deference between a Christian church and liberal religious club if you life depended on it. Not one Christian church has agreed with sodomy even when the government has demanded it to be "normalized ". No Christian minister conducts such abominations. Here in Utah, on the other hand are people who claim to be Christian p***ing out licensees to carry out that abomination like it is candy. They are too in love with their ***s to stand up for right. It would be better to quit their ***s rather than to bow down to a sin ridden authority and by so doing to become just as much a part of the sin as those who are asking for this sick connection to be formed. Sorry but in Utah there is no SALT among the LDS. Again proving that there is nothing of Jesus in their man invented church.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Yes, counties in Utah have begun issuing gay marriage licenses (only because a federal overlord forced them to). However, in contrast to many protestant churches,* the Church of Jesus Christ does not perform gay marriages. Therefore, I conclude that Mormonism has more salt than protestantism.

*See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessing_of_same-sex_unions_in_Christian_churches

Only a matter of time just as giving blacks the priesthood in '78. When enough pressure is brought to bear on the leadership they'll cave.

[Erundur]

Like most LDS you wouldn't know the deference between a Christian church and liberal religious club if you life depended on it. Not one Christian church has agreed with sodomy even when the government has demanded it to be "normalized ". No Christian minister conducts such abominations.

First, I didn't say Christianity is lacking salt, I said protestantism is.

Second, you commit the logical fallacy No True Scotsman.


No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned ***ertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the ***ertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

While I suppose I should have asked you first whether protestantism was salt, I ***umed you would say it is, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Sorry but in Utah there is no SALT among the LDS.
If you define salt as not issuing gay marriage licenses, then the most certainly is, because the Church of Jesus Christ does not issue them. Protestantism, on the other hand, does bless gay unions, which, according to you, demonstrates a lack of salt and proves that there is nothing of Jesus in your man-invented church.

[Erundur]

Only a matter of time just as giving blacks the priesthood in '78. When enough pressure is brought to bear on the leadership they'll cave.
Worthless anti-Mormon rhetoric. This is really just a concession, which I'll happily accept.

But just to play along, do you think it will take more or less pressure than it took to get protestant leadership to cave?

[James Banta]

Erundur;151339]First, I didn't say Christianity is lacking salt, I said protestantism is.

I am not here to defend religion. I don't think much of religion whether it is mormonism or protestantism.. Both are the inventions of men, neither one has any relationship with God.. A Christian's relationship to God is that of Father and child. Just what relationship does religion, any religion offer?


Second, you commit the logical fallacy No True Scotsman.

Can a true mormon say and teach that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, a womanizer, and adulterer, and a liar? That would have been a much better comparison than statement about a Scotsmen. No Christian would issue a license to legally allow anyone to commit the abomination of sodomy.. Before they did they would resign a position that required such an agreement with sin..


While I suppose I should have asked you first whether protestantism was salt, I ***umed you would say it is, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You brought protestantism up in this thread.. I never use the term to describe my faith in Jesus.. There are members of some protestant churches that are salt.. Not all but some.. After seeing the free for all that went on in county offices across the state of Utah, I am not seeing any salt in mormonism at all.. There is no attempt to resist corruption at all in mormonism.. The excuse raised in "It wasn't us it was a court order".. I have news for you, supplying a marriage license is the work of individual. Yes there is a court order and still I personally have never supplied a marriage license to anyone.. Why? You may ask.. Because I don't work for the county. Those that would be SALT in this matter should not work for the county either.. Let this be the work of the government if that is what the governments insists on doing.. Let those that follow Jesus to resist corruption and He has commanded..

The lack of SALT that over 300 LDS church members displayed was clearly seen this last June second as they marched in the Gay Right Parade in Salt Lake City.. Now county officials most of who are LDS are supplying marriage licenses to these same group of perverts.. God have mercy on them.. (June 3, 2013 Salt Lake Tribune)


If you define salt as not issuing gay marriage licenses, then the most certainly is, because the Church of Jesus Christ does not issue them. Protestantism, on the other hand, does bless gay unions, which, according to you, demonstrates a lack of salt and proves that there is nothing of Jesus in your man-invented church.

YES! Protestantism is a man made religious club.. Since much of Protestantism is no longer involved in teaching God's word,and like mormonism is more concerned about looking good than being good it is as evil as mormonism.. There is a decided lack of salt in Protestantism..

This is not the case in those that look to Jesus and only to Jesus as the Way, the Truth , and the Life.. Accepting His grace through a faith He gives them as the only means of salvation.. Those that see any sin as so serious that it can separate a person from God eternally and require such person to to cast into the Lake of Fire eternally.. They like these 300 mormons that marched in the Gay rights parade hold that acceptance of all no matter what they believe, who or what they affirm God to be, and now whether God's word is the rule and law for their lives. And the LDS here have pounded on me for my belief in James 2:10. Go figure. IHS jim

[neverending]

Worthless anti-Mormon rhetoric. This is really just a concession, which I'll happily accept.

But just to play along, do you think it will take more or less pressure than it took to get protestant leadership to cave?

First off, I am not a protestant and second, those Pastors, Ministers who do perform same sex marriages, ARE NOT CHRISTIAN! THEY DO NOT FOLLOW GOD'S WORD AND HAVE GONE ASTRAY DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS GOOD. SO, THEY CALL EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL! Do you understand now? Here in Salt Lake, many of these deviant marriages were performed by the Mayor and Justices of the Peace who have nothing to do with any church. These deviants didn't care who married them, they could have cared less if God had anything to do with their marriages. Only goes to show you that these people are not God fearing since they blatantly live lives that are far from pleasing to God.

[neverending]

First, I didn't say Christianity is lacking salt, I said protestantism is.

Second, you commit the logical fallacy No True Scotsman.



While I suppose I should have asked you first whether protestantism was salt, I ***umed you would say it is, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


If you define salt as not issuing gay marriage licenses, then the most certainly is, because the Church of Jesus Christ does not issue them. Protestantism, on the other hand, does bless gay unions, which, according to you, demonstrates a lack of salt and proves that there is nothing of Jesus in your man-invented church.

Please show me where James made this comment: "No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned ***ertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the ***ertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) " I have not seen anywhere, where he has made this comment.

[neverending]

Worthless anti-Mormon rhetoric. This is really just a concession, which I'll happily accept.

But just to play along, do you think it will take more or less pressure than it took to get protestant leadership to cave?

You are a broken record and you make no sense. WHO is conceding here? You are stuck on this idea with everyone! Look, no one is conceding anything, that is in your own imagination. Actually, I feel sorry for you since it is evident that you grew up never being heard or whatever opinion you had was made light of.....best get some help with that. As I said in a previous post, those Pastors or Ministers who do perform same sex marriages, ARE NOT CHRISTIAN! THEY KNOW NOTHING OF GOD'S WORD NOR CARE TO FOLLOW IT.

[Erundur]

First off, I am not a protestant and second, those Pastors, Ministers who do perform same sex marriages, ARE NOT CHRISTIAN! THEY DO NOT FOLLOW GOD'S WORD AND HAVE GONE ASTRAY DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS GOOD. SO, THEY CALL EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL! Do you understand now? Here in Salt Lake, many of these deviant marriages were performed by the Mayor and Justices of the Peace who have nothing to do with any church. These deviants didn't care who married them, they could have cared less if God had anything to do with their marriages. Only goes to show you that these people are not God fearing since they blatantly live lives that are far from pleasing to God.
Does not answer my question.

[Erundur]

Please show me where James made this comment:
Wow, seriously? You realize I was quoting Wikipedia, not James, don't you?

[Erundur]

You are a broken record and you make no sense.
I'm sorry if my post went over your head.


WHO is conceding here?
You are. When you respond to me without addressing my point at all, I can only ***ume that you can't refute my point, and therefore my point is correct.


You are stuck on this idea with everyone!
Everyone keeps conceding to me! ;)


Look, no one is conceding anything, that is in your own imagination.
Then I look forward to your substantive responses.

[James Banta]

I'm sorry if my post went over your head.


You are. When you respond to me without addressing my point at all, I can only ***ume that you can't refute my point, and therefore my point is correct.


Everyone keeps conceding to me! ;)


Then I look forward to your substantive responses.

Who is conceding? Your posts are answered so by just telling us that you don't see the answers maybe the answer are too much for your unregenerate heart to understand. In your own word I say "I'm sorry if my posts went over your head."

I have shown you in the word of one of your own prophets that aligning with the liberals democrats is wrong. I have shown you where the state legislature is over 80% LDS. I have asked you how such men could lay down their religion just because they enter the state capital doors.. I am sorry but this is ALL evidence that mormonism is at the root of all the laws, and efforts to keep Utah a GREAT STATE to live and worship "how, were, and what we may".. Yes even their efforts to be accepting is based in the AofF.. It is all about their religion. That is just how mormonism runs Utah.. IHS jim

[neverending]

I'm sorry if my post went over your head.


You are. When you respond to me without addressing my point at all, I can only ***ume that you can't refute my point, and therefore my point is correct.


Everyone keeps conceding to me! ;)


Then I look forward to your substantive responses.

Funny how trying to have a discussion with you is like spitting into the wind. Until you decide to join in with a discussion, you have already conceded and I call you out on it due to your silence. Guess you don't know as much as you think. And you never answered my question, thank you for your concession.

[James Banta]

Funny how trying to have a discussion with you is like spitting into the wind. Until you decide to join in with a discussion, you have already conceded and I call you out on it due to your silence. Guess you don't know as much as you think. And you never answered my question, thank you for your concession.

Erundur, like every other mormon that has or will ever post here, believes in a man/god who commands and revokes commands as it seems right to his "prophet". The God of the Bible has kept the same commandments since the day the Law was given to Moses. Nothing has ever been revoked.. They have denied right to our faces the teaching of God given in James 2:10.. It is strange that they rely so heavily on James 2 for their teaching on faith and works but turn and deny a teaching abut the seriousness of sin in the same context.. I have explained to them that true faith brings us to not show practicality, to cloth the naked, and feed the hungry. We believe all the Bible, the mormons see it as a Chinese restaurant menu. One from column A, two fro column B, but taking the whole of it's teachings as truth? Nope!

Even when they refuse to discuss their beliefs (and they are different for ever mormon) we know what they believe.. We know that they believe that Go is a glorified man. That they believe they will follow him into exaltation and have eternal increase, making sexual behavior the main goal of their faith.. We can praise God we are no longer caught in that sex trap but look to Jesus and a deep relationship with Him as His child as our ultimate goal.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Yes, it is a real shame that the LDS members can't think for themselves. It's also a shame to see that one man here must have had a terrible childhood since they constantly have to keep reminding themselves that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Poor guy, he never got any pats on the back growing up, not that that doesn't surprise me knowing all the pressures an LDS father puts on their sons.

It's been three days now since I pointed out the strong connection between mormonism and the government of Utah.. I guess Erundur has conceded the point, having no argument for the logic of our position.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Wow, seriously? You realize I was quoting Wikipedia, not James, don't you?

Which has not one thing to do with whether a person is a Christian or a tare among the wheat.. You can point to people who are acting the Christian part all day, but if they are not truly of the Church their fraud comes out eventually. Not all church people are Christians.. No one here is here to defend protestantism. We are here to defend the Church and Her, rule of Law, the Bible.. You have tried to twist that into a defense of an ISM.. That was a sneaky attempt to win an argument, one that doesn't exist.. Protestantism is as man made as mormonism. Can there be real Christians in protestant churches and still adhere to that churches beliefs? Yes! Can there be real Christians in the LDS church and still adhere to that it's beliefs? NO WAY! That is the main difference between a protestant church and the LDS church. membership in neither of them guarantees membership in the one true Church that only the Lord can add a person to (Acts 2:47) IHS jim

[Erundur]

I have shown you in the word of one of your own prophets that aligning with the liberals democrats is wrong.
No you haven't. You have claimed that one of my own prophets said it would be difficult.


I have asked you how such men could lay down their religion just because they enter the state capital doors..
No you haven't.


I am sorry but this is ALL evidence that mormonism is at the root of all the laws
No it isn't. This conclusion doesn't follow from any of your premises.

[Erundur]

It's been three days now since I pointed out the strong connection between mormonism and the government of Utah.. I guess Erundur has conceded the point, having no argument for the logic of our position..
Oh, is that the criterion you want to use? Okay, make sure you answer every single point I make within three days, or you will be conceding.

[James Banta]

Oh, is that the criterion you want to use? Okay, make sure you answer every single point I make within three days, or you will be conceding.

And here you are and still no answer.. What else am I to think.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151370]No you haven't. You have claimed that one of my own prophets said it would be difficult.

So difficult that it is impossible to point to one faithful LDS that is a liberal democrat..


No you haven't.

If you didn't hear that before, I am asking now..


No it isn't. This conclusion doesn't follow from any of your premises.

I guess your mind is just to thick to see it.. Over 80% of the Utah Legislature is LDS. They don't lay their LDS hearts aside as they enter the Capital to conduct the State's business.. I don't know if you live in Utah or not, I do.. I have spoken with my representative about this point and has told tell me that he votes as he believes is proper for the good of the whole state.. As he also told me that he believes in following the prophet always.. In those two statements all the prophet teaches to be truth are used by every one of the over 80% of the total members of the Utah Legislature. Without thinking too hard anyone can understand that the will and teachings of the President of the LDS church rules the whole of Utah.. Is he unjust? No! He is a good man who believes in freedom. Still His teachings are the springboard of all new Utah Law.. It has been so from the time BY can into the Salt Lake Valley..

The Federal Government has forced Utah to conform to federal laws before.. They are doing so again.. Last time to protect Church property valued at more than $50,000 the doctrine of plural marriage was abandoned and mere temple marriage put in it's place as a saving ordinance.. What will mormonism change this time to protect it's tax exempt status. Maybe soon we will see same sex temple weddings and ****sexual priesthood leaders..

I will continue responding to you if you give up the opinion that you are the only one here with any intelligence, or that everyone who isn't LDS is a liar.. If those words come from you again you won't see me responding to you ever again.. You won't be banned by any moderator but you will be banned from conversations with me.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

So difficult that it is impossible to point to one faithful LDS that is a liberal democrat..
And how would you prove that?


If you didn't hear that before, I am asking now..
And my answer is, I don't know; you'll have to ask the people who do it.


I guess your mind is just to thick to see it..
Or maybe you're just too blinded by your bigotry.


I have spoken with my representative about this point and has told tell me that he votes as he believes is proper for the good of the whole state.. As he also told me that he believes in following the prophet always.. In those two statements all the prophet teaches to be truth are used by every one of the over 80% of the total members of the Utah Legislature. Without thinking too hard anyone can understand that the will and teachings of the President of the LDS church rules the whole of Utah..
Maybe that's the problem. Think a little harder and you'll see that that's just plain nuts.


Maybe soon we will see same sex temple weddings and ****sexual priesthood leaders..
We'll see. Anti-Mormons have been prophesying that for years.


I will continue responding to you if you give up the opinion that you are the only one here with any intelligence, or that everyone who isn't LDS is a liar.. If those words come from you again you won't see me responding to you ever again..
Have those words ever come from me? Seriously.


You won't be banned by any moderator but you will be banned from conversations with me..
You say that as if it's a bad thing. ;)

[neverending]

Oh, is that the criterion you want to use? Okay, make sure you answer every single point I make within three days, or you will be conceding.

I'm still waiting to see you say anything in defense of your religion. So, three days, three weeks, months, years, you won't make it. All you know how to do is make sarcastic remarks, not one word to defend anything. You sir have conceded with every post you've made.

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151375]And how would you prove that?

Through the platform of the liberals and the statement of your own prophet..


And my answer is, I don't know; you'll have to ask the people who do it.

I would think you would be better studied before coming here to represent that which you believe to be the truth..


Or maybe you're just too blinded by your bigotry.

It's not me that say he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church.. That must be a profession of mormonism, so either you were one of the kids that ignored what was being taught in Priesthood meetings and Sunday School or you were just what I said about you too thick to allow truth to gain access to your mind..

You call me a bigot for not accepting error? Do you accept that which you believe to be error? How about the Nicene Creed? Are you willing to call your rejection of the truth in it bigotry? You understand you came here on your own, You were not invited here by the owners of this site.. You are just as welcome here as anyone but you are also subject to the same rules.. Here is the truth again.. You are either blind to truth of so thick that you can no longer identify truth.. You could say that say thing about me for holding the Bible to be the ONLY rule and law, the only message I have on how I can gain His salvation.. You can say I am foolish for believing His promises, and I will do the same to you for denying them..

Understand I am not calling you S T U I PI D as I say thick. I am saying that you are congested no path to see truth.. I have never given you a statement of doctrine that I can't support from the Bible. So you are safe.. You deny all the Bible that doesn't fit into doctrines taught by Joseph Smith. Case in point, the 132nd section of the D&C demands that it was a commandment from God for Abraham to take Hagar as a second wife.. That is UNBIBLICAL. No where in the Bible is it taught that God had word one to do with Abraham entering polygamy.. That is just an example of way mormonism twists and thereby denies the word of God.. There are even examples of Smith denying LDS scripture.. But you are to thick to allow these truths to be identified in your mind..


Maybe that's the problem. Think a little harder and you'll see that that's just plain nuts.

What is nuts? The fact that people bring their beliefs with them into such positions, or that there is such a large percentage of LDS among the state's law makers? I personally agree more often with them than not with how the state is run.. I agree with their push to end the federal courts power to make law for the people of Utah. I vote for many members of the LDS church in their desire to take up the duties of making Utah a better place to live.. I wouldn't want the ***.. Hats off to them.. Still the fact that the LDS Church has REAL POLITICAL POWER is not a figment of my imagination.. After all more than 80% of the members of the legislator have promised to FOLLOW THE PROPHET..


We'll see. Anti-Mormons have been prophesying that for years.

You are right we shall see.. Back in the 50's Christians also said that blacks would be given the priesthood and access to the temples.. That happened.. So you are right we shall see..


Have those words ever come from me? Seriously.

Yes, you have called me a liar in reporting to you the words of your prophets. Doctrines that disagree with the teachings of the Bible.. Since you now seem willing to drop the personal attacks and actual discuss the issues I will answer you.. But if you revert, well that will be a way to get ignored..


You say that as if it's a bad thing. ;)

If you can't stand up to my posts that expose the real truth of what mormonism really teaches and how it compares to what the Bible teaches you can ignore me.. I don't attack you personally.. I have never called you a liar, never have I attacked your character.. I will not be doing so. So if you decide to ignore me (and you can if you wish) it will be because like you made clear in you post you just Don't Know how to answer me.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Through the platform of the liberals and the statement of your own prophet..
But what if someone produced a faithful LDS who is a liberal democrat?


It's not me that say he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church..
Then which churches know more about God and his ways than you?


You call me a bigot for not accepting error?
No, I suggested you were engaging in bigotry because you are a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc., which is what the word means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot


What is nuts?
The nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.


You are right we shall see.. Back in the 50's Christians also said that blacks would be given the priesthood and access to the temples..
We were saying it earlier than that.


Yes
Then give me a link.


If you can't stand up to my posts that expose the real truth of what mormonism really teaches and how it compares to what the Bible teaches you can ignore me..
Okay, if I ever find a post like that I'll consider ignoring you.


I don't attack you personally.. I have never called you a liar, never have I attacked your character..
"I imagine that it is too much to ask for you to follow the rules anyway right?"
"Maybe I am giving you to much credit for even having a little knowledge.."
"Nope you can't read, it is doubtful that you can think.."
"Erundur can't stand to hear the truth. He hate it so much..."
"Do you really think he would be honest enough to look them up for Himself, I doubt it.."
"Like most LDS you wouldn't know the deference between a Christian church and liberal religious club if you life depended on it."
"...maybe the answer are too much for your unregenerate heart to understand."
"I guess your mind is just to thick to see it.."


So if you decide to ignore me (and you can if you wish)
Don't think you're going to get off that easily. ;)

[Pa Pa]

Jesus calls His children to be the Salt of the earth? What is the purpose of salt? It is to resist corruption.. And yet Utah has been p***ing out marriage licenses to hundreds of Gay couples all over the state.. Well over a thousand "couples" applied for marriages licenses as soon as the court ruled Utah's marriage laws uncons***utional. Thousands, not just a few.. And what does the Gay rights parade in Salt Lake every year say about the level of corruption in the state? Mormonism is NOT SALT.. Think.. When was the last time a openly gay mormon was excommunicated from the LDS church? I will tell you right now such a person wouldn't last a week trying to remain part of a Christian church.. IHS jim
Salt has many functions, it also cure up and preserve us. Many food in many countries their food supplies could be maintained, thus by it we a freed.

[James Banta]

Salt has many functions, it also cure up and preserve us. Many food in many countries their food supplies could be maintained, thus by it we a freed.

So the Church being called the Salt of the earth has two functions, to preserve and to add savor.. So where are the LDS doing either in the case of Gay marriage being forced on the state?

[Novato]

So the Church being called the Salt of the earth has two functions, to preserve and to add savor.. So where are the LDS doing either in the case of Gay marriage being forced on the state?

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

[neverending]

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

Even if a law goes against God's laws? You agree with everything Obama is doing to our nation too? If people followed the Mormon's Article of Faith, we'd still be under English rule wouldn't we? There are certainly laws that we all should obey such as traffic laws, not to steal, or commit murder but considering moral laws, acceptance of ****sexuality is wrong and I for one have had my fill of gays, lesbians bragging about their deviant lifestyle and forcing it on everyone.

[RealFakeHair]

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

Navoto, I am your ruler and king, leave the cult of LDSinc. Now!

[Novato]

Navoto, I am your ruler and king, leave the cult of LDSinc. Now!

So Fake Hair, you would have me abandon the Lord’s Truth for the cult of Trinitarian nonsense. I will leave the readers to decide if the nonsense you seem to believe in makes any sense both logically and scientifically.

The core belief of traditional & Evangelical religion is the Christian Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is the Christian belief that:
There is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Other ways of referring to the Trinity are the Triune God and the Three-in-One.

The Trinity is a controversial doctrine; many Christians admit they don't understand it, while many more Evangelical Christians don't understand it but think they do.The doctrine of the Trinity is one of the most difficult ideas in Christianity, but it's fundamental to Evangelical Christians because it:

•states what Christians believe God is like and who he is
•plays a central part in Christians' worship of an "unobjectifiable and incomprehensible God"
•emphasises that God is very different from human beings
•reflects the ways Christians believe God encounters them
•is a central element of Christian iden***y
•teaches Christians vital truths about relationship and community
•reveals that God can be seen only as a spiritual experience whose mystery inspires awe and cannot be understood logically.

Unpacking the doctrine:

The idea that there is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means:
•There is exactly one God
•The Father is God
•The Son is God
•The Holy Spirit is God
•The Father is not the Son
•The Son is not the Holy Spirit
•The Father is not the Holy Spirit

An alternate way of explaining it is:

•There is exactly one God
•There are three really distinct Persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
•Each of the Persons is God

Christianity adopted this complicated idea of God in the 3rd century because it was the only way they could make sense of One God in the context of the events and teaching of the Bible.
The idea of the Trinity does not supersede monotheism; it interprets it, in the light of a specific set of revelatory events and experiences.

[Novato]

I'm sorry the board will not let me fully edit or paste anything anymore.
Novato

[James Banta]

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

Daniele the prophet was faced with a choice of whether to obey the Law of the king or obey God, He chose the later. This justification using the LDS creed to stake along when it was a fact that mormonism knowingly flaunted the Law to be obedient to polygamy is screaming in my ear right now.. Polygamy to a Christian is not the proper form of marriage being strictly denied to the Elders and deacons of the Church. Then in the USA a Christian was denied by the laws of man and the laws of God for it's leaders to practice polygamy and yet they did so.. Is ****sexuality permitted in the scripture? NO! It doesn't matter how much the state says it is fair, or denying it is evil, God pronounced it as evil.. The state has called good evil, and evil has been called good. A christian can't and shouldn't try to end all the evil in the world, but we should resist it.. That would include working to end abortion, and doing all we can to stop the perversions of the ****sexual.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151392]But what if someone produced a faithful LDS who is a liberal democrat?

Then the words of President Benson would be erred and he would be a false teacher..


Then which churches know more about God and his ways than you?

I don't know any Christian church that does since we share the same information of who and what He is.. It differently isn't mormonism that denies the Biblical teaching of His nature.. It isn't Islam or the eastern religions that all deny the divinity of Jesus.. You tell me..


No, I suggested you were engaging in bigotry because you are a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc., which is what the word means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

If you are teaching here that God is "engaging in bigotry" when He tell us through the Apostle that

1Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

I will glady be seen as the same kind of bigot you must see Him to be..


The nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.

So it's a nutty idea that the 80% of leaders of the State of Utah that are LDS lay their religion aside when they walk into the Capital building. All the time they work there they don't follow their prophet.
President Benson again teaches how a LDS should "Follow the Prophet.. I guess you have never seen His teaching on the subject, Here is a short version:
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter—temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the first presidency—follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer. (http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=88)

So even if only 60% of the legislators believed this that would mean that nothing would ever be done in Utah that wasn't the will of the LDS first Presidency. It would mean that Utah is controlled 100% by the LDS church.. And believe me it is!


We were saying it earlier than that.

But most believed it would happen ONLY after all the sons that would have come through righteous Able had been given the priesthood.. That wouldn't have been until the second coming..


Don't think you're going to get off that easily.

Yes I have shown what low esteem I have for you as you came here with a chip on your shoulder..

While I doubted your ability to understand truth or willingness to look up what we teach here and ascribe to your leaders you deny everything and ***ume you have won a point. To ***ume victory you have made personal attacks on others. Here are your attacks..

maybe you're just too blinded by your bigotry.
So you lie.
lie, lie, lie. Just keep lying, and I'll keep calling you on it.
you would try to twist this quote to rationalize your dishonesty
Now you're just lying.

Personally I think we should give up the name calling and stay with the discussion of doctrine.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Then the words of President Benson would be erred and he would be a false teacher..
They would be if he said that no faithful LDS liberal democrat existed or could ever exist. But he didn't say that, did he?


I don't know any Christian church that does
So you are the one who says he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church after all.


If you are teaching here that God is "engaging in bigotry"
I'm not.


So it's a nutty idea that the 80% of leaders of the State of Utah that are LDS lay their religion aside when they walk into the Capital building.
No, it's a nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.


So even if only 60% of the legislators believed this that would mean that nothing would ever be done in Utah that wasn't the will of the LDS first Presidency.
No it wouldn't. That doesn't follow at all.


It would mean that Utah is controlled 100% by the LDS church.. And believe me it is!
I don't believe you because it clearly isn't.


Yes I have shown what low esteem I have for you as you came here with a chip on your shoulder..
Does that explain why you began insulting me right out of the gate, before I had even spoken to you? No, it doesn't.


Personally I think we should give up the name calling and stay with the discussion of doctrine..
That would be a refreshing change from you.

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151471]They would be if he said that no faithful LDS liberal democrat existed or could ever exist. But he didn't say that, did he?

Sure sounded like it to me..


So you are the one who says he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church after all.

I said I didn't know.. Two can play at your word games..


I'm not.

Sure sound like you are to me..


No, it's a nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.

And yet a clear majority of the Utah State government has sworn in the Temple before God to be obedient to the prophet..


No it wouldn't. That doesn't follow at all.

We can do a "is so, is not" argument all day. I have shown you why it is so and all you have said is "IS NOT". I accept your concession..


I don't believe you because it clearly isn't.

There is is again that desprate denial.. Calm down.. I won't rub your concession in..


Does that explain why you began insulting me right out of the gate, before I had even spoken to you? No, it doesn't.

Yes it does because right out of the gates you called me a lair.. Lying is a very serious sin. It is included in the Bible with murder, ***** mongering, sorcery, and idolatry (Rev 21:8).. You use that terrible charge against me and think I wouldn't respond with the truth about you? Hardly..


That would be a refreshing change from you.

It appears as you don't wish to set all this behind.. Well I can go back to ignoring you.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Sure sounded like it to me..
And yet he didn't, at least not in anything you quoted. Maybe the problem is a lack of reading comprehension skills?


I said I didn't know.. Two can play at your word games..
So you admit you're just playing word games.


Sure sound like you are to me..
See above.


And yet a clear majority of the Utah State government has sworn in the Temple before God to be obedient to the prophet..
And yet the President of the Church still doesn't rule Utah.


We can do a "is so, is not" argument all day. I have shown you why it is so and all you have said is "IS NOT". I accept your concession..
That only works when the person actually concedes.


There is is again that desprate denial..
Acknowledging reality != desperate denial.


Yes it does because right out of the gates you called me a lair..
That's a lie, James.


Lying is a very serious sin. It is included in the Bible with murder, ***** mongering, sorcery, and idolatry (Rev 21:8)..
Then you'd better stop doing it.

[James Banta]

I thought we could have a discussion.. I had hopes for you, but here in this post you again call me a liar.. That means we are done, and this time it is permanent. Good bye.. IHS jim