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Apologette
12-28-2013, 11:43 AM
I posted this elsewhere a long time ago, but it contains significant issues that Mormons have never addressed:


Mormonism through the years has been revised to make it more palatable to the new breed of Mormons - more educated, more professionally successful, a little less credulous (slightly so) than their cart-pulling ancestors. The modern Mormon likes to dismiss the cult's practice of polygamy as taught in D&C 132 as something their god ins***uted temporarily in the beginning of Mormon history for the purpose of procreation, but which was only practiced for a short time and certainly has no impact on today's modern Mormons. The polygamy revelation of Doctrine and Covenants 132 has been revised to pertain mostly to temple marriage, and polygamy is brushed aside as simply a small, insignificant portion of Smith's infamous revelation. However, this is not how early Mormons saw things. Let's take a look at the original Mormon view of polygamy:

(from principlevoices.org, via http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,469734,469858)

D&C 131:1-4:
“In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.”

D&C 132:4 & 6:
“For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye ****ed; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. *** And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was ins***uted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be ****ed, saith the Lord God.”


George M. Cannon (son of Angus Cannon)
“John [B. Cannon] recalled that his father [George M. Cannon] took him aside in the library of their home and told him that polygamous living was a requirement if one wished to enter the highest level of the celestial kingdom.” (quoted in Solemn Covenant, B. Carmon Hardy, p. 316)

George Q. Cannon:
Is it not a costly bargain which they are asked to make? To barter off all hope of eternal felicity with wives and children in the celestial presence of God and the Lamb for the miserable favor of the world! So intimately interwoven is that previous doctrine with the exaltation of men and women in the great hereafter that it cannot be given up without giving up at the same time all hope of immortal glory.” (Juvenile Instructor 20:136, May 1, 1885)

Abraham Hunsaker:
In open day, a messenger from heaven, with three women clothed in white raiment, stood before him several feet from the ground, and addressed him thus: “You never can receive a full and complete salvation in My Kingdom unless your garments are pure and white and you have three counselors like me.” (LDS Biog. Enc. 3:415)

Heber C. Kimball:
“They (Joseph and Hyrum) had to do the works of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in order to be admitted where they are – they had to be polygamists in order to be received into their society.” (1857, JD 4:224)

Orson Pratt:
“There will be many who will not hearken; there will be the foolish among the wise, who will not receive the new and everlasting covenant in its fullness; and they never will attain to their exaltation;…” (1852, JD 1:65)
Bathsheba Smith: (wife of George A. Smith & 4th Gen. R.S. President)

“Pres. Woodruff, Pres. Young, and Pres. John Taylor taught me and all the rest of the ladies here in Salt Lake that a man in order to be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom must have more than one wife, that having more than one wife was a means of exaltation.” (Temple Lot Case; see pp. 359-363; quoted in Most Holy Principle 3:257)

Joseph Smith: (quoted by Wm. Clayton)
“From him [Joseph Smith] I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth and that without obedience to that principle, no man can ever attain to the fullness of exaltation in celestial glory.” (Historical Record 6:226)
“…without it [polygamy] the highest glory could not be attained in heaven.”
(Joseph Smith, First Mormon, Donna Hill, p. 345)

Joseph F. Smith:
“The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the law of God, is a fulfillment of the celestial law of marriage IN PART – and is good so far as it goes…But this is only the beginning of the law, not the whole of it. Therefore, whoever has imagined that he could obtain the fullness of the blessings pertaining to this celestial law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions, has deceived himself. He cannot do it.” (JD 20:28)

Lorenzo Snow (while in state prison, 1886)
Last stanza of a song he wrote:
“’Twas eighteen hundred forty-three,
This sacred law was shown to me,
Which gives to men his loving wives,
God’s only path to endless Lives!”

Annie Clark Tanner:
“The principle of Celestial Marriage was considered the capstone of the Mormon religion. Only by practicing it could the highest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom of God be obtained.” (A Mormon Mother: An Autobiography, Annie Clark Tanner, p.1)

John Taylor:
(1886) “All I those who would enter into my glory must and shall obey my law.” [plural marriage] And have I not commanded men that if they were Abraham’s seed and would enter into my glory, they must do the works of Abraham? I have not revoked this law, nor will I, for it is everlasting, and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof.” [1886 Revelation]
Brigham Young:
(1852—after the revelation on plural marriage was read in August conference)

“It [plural marriage] is all connected with the exaltation of man, showing how he becomes exalted to be a king and a priest – yea, even a God, like his Father in Heaven. Without the doctrine that this Revelation reveals, no man on earth ever could be exalted to be a God.” (JD 6:282)
Newell K. Young:

“Only those who entered plural marriage would become gods.” (Quoted in Solemn Covenant, Hardy, pp. 190 & 310)
Pe***ion for Amnesty (Dec. 19, 1891) signed by First Presidency and 12 Apostles)

“We formerly taught to our people that polygamy, or celestial marriage, as commanded by God through Joseph Smith, was right; that it was a necessity to man’s highest exaltation in the life to come.” (Smoot Case Proceedings, 1:18)

If one reads D&C 132 in context, it's easy to see that it's main thrust is dealing with plural marriage. Temple marriage is part of that, however as their own prophet, Joseph F. Smith (Hyrum's son), stated above, it is only a portion of the requirement for exaltation. The essential requirement is plural marriage. Are these "modern" Mormons more knowledgeable than their own prophet? Hyrum's son?

The overwhelming amount of evidence supports the conclusion that dismissing the central theme of D&C 132 - that plural marriage is a new and everlasting covenant required for exaltation - is a revisionist position with little to support that view, and a great deal of evidence from Mormonism's authorities supporting the view that polygamy is a practice necessary for full salvation - exaltation to godhood.

James Banta
12-29-2013, 01:26 PM
I posted this elsewhere a long time ago, but it contains significant issues that Mormons have never addressed:


Mormonism through the years has been revised to make it more palatable to the new breed of Mormons - more educated, more professionally successful, a little less credulous (slightly so) than their cart-pulling ancestors. The modern Mormon likes to dismiss the cult's practice of polygamy as taught in D&C 132 as something their god ins***uted temporarily in the beginning of Mormon history for the purpose of procreation, but which was only practiced for a short time and certainly has no impact on today's modern Mormons. The polygamy revelation of Doctrine and Covenants 132 has been revised to pertain mostly to temple marriage, and polygamy is brushed aside as simply a small, insignificant portion of Smith's infamous revelation. However, this is not how early Mormons saw things. Let's take a look at the original Mormon view of polygamy:

(from principlevoices.org, via http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,469734,469858)

D&C 131:1-4:
“In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.”

D&C 132:4 & 6:
“For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye ****ed; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. *** And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was ins***uted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be ****ed, saith the Lord God.”


George M. Cannon (son of Angus Cannon)
“John [B. Cannon] recalled that his father [George M. Cannon] took him aside in the library of their home and told him that polygamous living was a requirement if one wished to enter the highest level of the celestial kingdom.” (quoted in Solemn Covenant, B. Carmon Hardy, p. 316)

George Q. Cannon:
Is it not a costly bargain which they are asked to make? To barter off all hope of eternal felicity with wives and children in the celestial presence of God and the Lamb for the miserable favor of the world! So intimately interwoven is that previous doctrine with the exaltation of men and women in the great hereafter that it cannot be given up without giving up at the same time all hope of immortal glory.” (Juvenile Instructor 20:136, May 1, 1885)

Abraham Hunsaker:
In open day, a messenger from heaven, with three women clothed in white raiment, stood before him several feet from the ground, and addressed him thus: “You never can receive a full and complete salvation in My Kingdom unless your garments are pure and white and you have three counselors like me.” (LDS Biog. Enc. 3:415)

Heber C. Kimball:
“They (Joseph and Hyrum) had to do the works of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in order to be admitted where they are – they had to be polygamists in order to be received into their society.” (1857, JD 4:224)

Orson Pratt:
“There will be many who will not hearken; there will be the foolish among the wise, who will not receive the new and everlasting covenant in its fullness; and they never will attain to their exaltation;…” (1852, JD 1:65)
Bathsheba Smith: (wife of George A. Smith & 4th Gen. R.S. President)

“Pres. Woodruff, Pres. Young, and Pres. John Taylor taught me and all the rest of the ladies here in Salt Lake that a man in order to be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom must have more than one wife, that having more than one wife was a means of exaltation.” (Temple Lot Case; see pp. 359-363; quoted in Most Holy Principle 3:257)

Joseph Smith: (quoted by Wm. Clayton)
“From him [Joseph Smith] I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth and that without obedience to that principle, no man can ever attain to the fullness of exaltation in celestial glory.” (Historical Record 6:226)
“…without it [polygamy] the highest glory could not be attained in heaven.”
(Joseph Smith, First Mormon, Donna Hill, p. 345)

Joseph F. Smith:
“The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the law of God, is a fulfillment of the celestial law of marriage IN PART – and is good so far as it goes…But this is only the beginning of the law, not the whole of it. Therefore, whoever has imagined that he could obtain the fullness of the blessings pertaining to this celestial law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions, has deceived himself. He cannot do it.” (JD 20:28)

Lorenzo Snow (while in state prison, 1886)
Last stanza of a song he wrote:
“’Twas eighteen hundred forty-three,
This sacred law was shown to me,
Which gives to men his loving wives,
God’s only path to endless Lives!”

Annie Clark Tanner:
“The principle of Celestial Marriage was considered the capstone of the Mormon religion. Only by practicing it could the highest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom of God be obtained.” (A Mormon Mother: An Autobiography, Annie Clark Tanner, p.1)

John Taylor:
(1886) “All I those who would enter into my glory must and shall obey my law.” [plural marriage] And have I not commanded men that if they were Abraham’s seed and would enter into my glory, they must do the works of Abraham? I have not revoked this law, nor will I, for it is everlasting, and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof.” [1886 Revelation]
Brigham Young:
(1852—after the revelation on plural marriage was read in August conference)

“It [plural marriage] is all connected with the exaltation of man, showing how he becomes exalted to be a king and a priest – yea, even a God, like his Father in Heaven. Without the doctrine that this Revelation reveals, no man on earth ever could be exalted to be a God.” (JD 6:282)
Newell K. Young:

“Only those who entered plural marriage would become gods.” (Quoted in Solemn Covenant, Hardy, pp. 190 & 310)
Pe***ion for Amnesty (Dec. 19, 1891) signed by First Presidency and 12 Apostles)

“We formerly taught to our people that polygamy, or celestial marriage, as commanded by God through Joseph Smith, was right; that it was a necessity to man’s highest exaltation in the life to come.” (Smoot Case Proceedings, 1:18)

If one reads D&C 132 in context, it's easy to see that it's main thrust is dealing with plural marriage. Temple marriage is part of that, however as their own prophet, Joseph F. Smith (Hyrum's son), stated above, it is only a portion of the requirement for exaltation. The essential requirement is plural marriage. Are these "modern" Mormons more knowledgeable than their own prophet? Hyrum's son?

The overwhelming amount of evidence supports the conclusion that dismissing the central theme of D&C 132 - that plural marriage is a new and everlasting covenant required for exaltation - is a revisionist position with little to support that view, and a great deal of evidence from Mormonism's authorities supporting the view that polygamy is a practice necessary for full salvation - exaltation to godhood.

Which of these statements are the words of God and which are the lies of a man?

Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
or
if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified...

Remember we have God's promise that He does not change


Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

So why did God remain unchanged until Joseph Smith came along and then start giving and revoking His commandments at a whim.. IHS jim

Apologette
12-29-2013, 08:50 PM
Which of these statements are the words of God and which are the lies of a man?

Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
or
if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified...

Remember we have God's promise that He does change



So why did God remain unchanged until Joseph Smith came along and then start giving and revoking His commandments at a whim.. IHS jim

When your "god" is some exalted human from another planet who is married to a slew of women and living on an asteroid situated near Star base Kolob, I suppose you come to accept that a "god" like that can be fickle and capricious.

James Banta
12-30-2013, 09:40 AM
When your "god" is some exalted human from another planet who is married to a slew of women and living on an asteroid situated near Star base Kolob, I suppose you come to accept that a "god" like that can be fickle and capricious.

If someone had such a god, he wouldn't be the God of the Bible, would he? NO! That is why it is important for us to reveal the God of the Bible to such that have a belief in the man/god of mormonism.. That is where the main trust of our message to them must be.. Right on the God of all creation. He alone in the center of our faith and must always be the center of our message. IHS jim

Apologette
01-03-2014, 07:44 AM
If someone had such a god, he wouldn't be the God of the Bible, would he? NO! That is why it is important for us to reveal the God of the Bible to such that have a belief in the man/god of mormonism.. That is where the main trust of our message to them must be.. Right on the God of all creation. He alone in the center of our faith and must always be the center of our message. IHS jim

No, the Mormon god is one of Joseph Smith's own making, a diabolicial subs***ute - a deity who appeased Smith's lust, gave him power and money.............and who in the end, used him up when he was no longer a viable tool. But, this god has Young waiting in the wings - a man of greater abilities than Smith in terms of administration.