Proof of Smith's Pedophilia

[John T]

It is well-known that Smith had 34 wives.

It is well-known that he married (sealed) 7 women under the age of 18, 14 years old Helen mar Kimble ; Nancy Winchester, age 15; Fanny Alger and Flora Woodworth, both 16, and at the age of 17, Flora Ann Woodworth, Sarah Laurence and Lucy Walker.

Since these women, excepting Fanny were all taken by Joseph at a later age, and some could possibly argue (unsuccessfully though) that this does not cons***ute pedophilia. and to be honest, I was reluctant to make that charge until I saw this as an entry on wikipedia about Mary Elizabeth Rollins Leightner IN HER OWN WORDS:

9 April 1818 in Lima, New York–17 December 1913 in Minersville, Utah) Claimed that Smith had a private conversation with her in 1831 when she was twelve years old,[32][33]

[At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. … In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife … [In 1842 I] went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing … for time, and all Eternity. I did just as Joseph told me to do[.]

After Smith's death, she remarried, becoming the 24th plural wife of Brigham Young. They married in 1845 and she bore him no children. Mary Elizabeth and her sister Caroline were instrumental in salvaging printed pages of the Book of Commandments when the printing press was destroyed by a mob on 20 July 1833.[34]

footnootes:

32 Newell & Avery 1994, pp. 65, .

33 a b c Compton 1997
34 Carter, Kate (1962), Our Pioneer Heritage, Salt Lake City, UT: Daughters of Utah Pioneers, p. 308


NOTE
When this woman was 12 years old, Joseph was 26 (1834 minus 1805) This is what is called "grooming" by a pedophile to a victim

It couldn't be much clearer that here is a woman describing that sort of behavior, and there is only ONE possible outcome: JOSEPH SMITH WAS A PEDOPHILE

Does the Bible record any of the prophets of a just, righteous and holy God as having behaviors of a pedophile.

[John T]

I did not include some of the websites and other sources that helped me gather the data.

http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/09/the-many-wives-of-joseph-smith.html
wivesofjosephsmith.org

Footnotes from the wiki article:
Sorry for the poor formatting. Footnote 30 in the above article is # 2; footnote 31 is #3; footnote 32 is #4 etc.


Historical Record 6:233
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-30)Smith, J.F. (1905) Blood Atonement and the Origin of Plural Marriage (http://books.google.ca/books?id=kMHECcPZU3wC&dq=%22Blood+Atonement+and+the+Origin+of+Plural+Mar riage%22+&pg=PP1&ots=MN34vWsNlc&sig=3Da93EgvtbbBsYa4X0A3DUQr9JA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA2,M1) Salt Lake City, Utah: The Deseret News Press, 75)
Compton 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFCompton1997) , pp. 153
Newell & Avery 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFNewellAvery1 994), pp. 65, link (http://books.google.com/books?id=UjHEhhqVu1UC&pg=PA65&vq=Mary+Rollins&dq=Mormon+Enigma:+Emma+Hale+smith&source=gbs_search_s&sig=ACfU3U0DACkZ8P0Nb8quB_hWPbU53xuiIA).
a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Compton_1997_33-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Compton_1997_33-1) c (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Compton_1997_33-2) Compton 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFCompton1997)
Carter, Kate (1962), Our Pioneer Heritage, Salt Lake City, UT: Daughters of Utah Pioneers, p. 308
Compton 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFCompton1997) , pp. 175–179
a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Krakauer-2003-120_36-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Krakauer-2003-120_36-1) Krakauer 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFKrakauer2003 ), pp. 120. Krakauer quotes Miranda's older brother Luke Johnson: "[The mob] had Dr. Dennison there to perform the operation [of castration]; but when he saw the Prophet stripped and stretched on the plank, his heart failed him and he refused to operate."
Times and Seasons 3 [August 1, 1842]: 869
Times and Seasons 3 [October 1, 1842]: 940
a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-1) c (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-2) d (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-3) e (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-4) f (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-5) g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-6) Clayton (1874 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFClayton1874) , p. 225).5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFPeregoMyersW oodward2005)

[RealFakeHair]

I did not include some of the websites and other sources that helped me gather the data.

http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/09/the-many-wives-of-joseph-smith.html
wivesofjosephsmith.org

Footnotes from the wiki article:
Sorry for the poor formatting. Footnote 30 in the above article is # 2; footnote 31 is #3; footnote 32 is #4 etc.


Historical Record 6:233
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-30)Smith, J.F. (1905) Blood Atonement and the Origin of Plural Marriage (http://books.google.ca/books?id=kMHECcPZU3wC&dq=%22Blood+Atonement+and+the+Origin+of+Plural+Mar riage%22+&pg=PP1&ots=MN34vWsNlc&sig=3Da93EgvtbbBsYa4X0A3DUQr9JA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA2,M1) Salt Lake City, Utah: The Deseret News Press, 75)
Compton 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFCompton1997) , pp. 153
Newell & Avery 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFNewellAvery1 994), pp. 65, link (http://books.google.com/books?id=UjHEhhqVu1UC&pg=PA65&vq=Mary+Rollins&dq=Mormon+Enigma:+Emma+Hale+smith&source=gbs_search_s&sig=ACfU3U0DACkZ8P0Nb8quB_hWPbU53xuiIA).
a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Compton_1997_33-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Compton_1997_33-1) c (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Compton_1997_33-2) Compton 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFCompton1997)
Carter, Kate (1962), Our Pioneer Heritage, Salt Lake City, UT: Daughters of Utah Pioneers, p. 308
Compton 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFCompton1997) , pp. 175–179
a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Krakauer-2003-120_36-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Krakauer-2003-120_36-1) Krakauer 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFKrakauer2003 ), pp. 120. Krakauer quotes Miranda's older brother Luke Johnson: "[The mob] had Dr. Dennison there to perform the operation [of castration]; but when he saw the Prophet stripped and stretched on the plank, his heart failed him and he refused to operate."
Times and Seasons 3 [August 1, 1842]: 869
Times and Seasons 3 [October 1, 1842]: 940
a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-1) c (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-2) d (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-3) e (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-4) f (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-5) g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#cite_ref-Harvtxt.7CClayton.7C1874.7Cp.3D225_39-6) Clayton (1874 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFClayton1874) , p. 225).5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives#CITEREFPeregoMyersW oodward2005)


All the foot-notes mean nothing to a TBM, sad aint it. To bad they didn't have cell-phones and internet back then. Could you imagine the texting back and forth Mary and Jo would have done? Not to mention the texting she would be having with her friends about Jo's advancements.

[Novato]

The Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU
Mary Lightner, Address to Brigham Young University, 1905,
BYU Archives and M****cripts
Source: Mary Elizabeth Lightner, Address at Brigham Young University,
April 14, 1905, typescript, BYU.

Remarks by Sister Mary E. Lightner who was sealed to Joseph Smith in 1842. She is 87 years of age.]

Well, my young brethren, I can say I never was more surprised in my life than to be called upon to speak to you young men who are called upon to go into the mission field to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth. It is true I have been in the Church from its beginning. Just six months after it was organized, I joined it. I have been acquainted with all of those who were first members of this Church, with all of those who saw the plates and handled them, with even those who saw the angel Moroni who came to them. I am well acquainted with every one of them and I have known them from the time that they came to Ohio until their death; and I am the only living witness who was at the first meeting that the Prophet [Joseph Smith] held in Kirtland.

The Smith family was driven from New York, and a small church had been organized. Oliver Cowdery, Peter Whitmer, and Ziba Peterson were members. Well, I being anxious, though young, to learn about the plates from those who knew all about it, my mother and I went up to the Smith family the next night after they came to Kirtland. As I went in, there were two or three others present. They were all there, from the old gentleman and his wife to all the sons and daughters. As we stood there talking to them, Joseph and Martin Harris came in. Joseph looked around very solemnly. It was the first time some of them had ever seen him.

Said he, "There are enough here to hold a little meeting." They got a board and put it across two chairs to make seats. Martin Harris sat on a little box at Joseph's feet. They sang and prayed. Joseph got up and began to speak to us. As he began to speak very solemnly and very earnestly, all at once his countenance changed and he stood mute. Those who looked at him that day said there was a search light within him, over every part of his body. I never saw anything like it on the earth. I could not take my eyes off him; he got so white that anyone who saw him would have thought he was transparent. I remember I thought I could almost see the cheek bones through the flesh. I have been through many changes since but that is photographed on my brain. I shall remember it and see in my mind's eye as long as I remain upon the earth.

He stood some moments. He looked over the congregation as if to pierce every heart. He said, "Do you know who has been in your midst?" One of the Smiths said an angel of the Lord. Martin Harris said, "It was our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." Joseph put his hand down on Martin and said: "God revealed that to you. Brethren and sisters, the Spirit of God has been here. The Savior has been in your midst this night and I want you to remember it. There is a veil over your eyes for you could not endure to look upon Him. You must be fed with milk, not with strong meat. I want you to remember this as if it were the last thing that escaped my lips. He has given all of you to me and has sealed you up to everlasting life that where he is, you may be also. And if you are tempted of Satan say, 'Get behind me, Satan.'"

These words are figured upon my brain and I never took my eye off his countenance. Then he knelt down and prayed. I have never heard anything like it before or since. I felt that he was talking to the Lord and that power rested down upon the congregation. Every soul felt it. The spirit rested upon us in every fiber of our bodies, and we received a sermon from the lips of the representative of God.

Much has come and gone from me through the powers and vicissitudes of this Church. I have been in almost every mob. I have been driven about and told I would be shot and had a gun pointed at me, but I stayed with the Church until it was driven from Nauvoo. The words of the Prophet that had been revealed to him always have been with me from the beginning to the end of the gospel. Every principle that has been given in the Church by the prophet is true. I know whereon I stand, I know what I believe, I know what I know and I know what I testify to you is the living truth. As I expect to meet it at the bar of the eternal Jehovah, it is true. And when you stand before the bar you will know. He preached polygamy and he not only preached it, but he practiced it. I am a living witness to it. It was given to him before he gave it to the Church. An angel came to him and the last time he came with a drawn sword in his hand and told Joseph if he did not go into that principle, he would slay him. Joseph said he talked to him soberly about it, and told him it was an abomination and quoted scripture to him. He said in the Book of Mormon it was an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, and they were to adhere to these things except the Lord speak. I am the first being that the revelation [D&C 132] was given to him for and I was one thousand miles away in Missouri, for we went up to Jackson County in 1841 [1831].

I was there in all the tribulations and trials. I have been in the houses that have been stoned. The rocks have been thrown criss-cross in every direction. I have seen the brethren shot and ruined for life. I saw the first martyr dead and a more heavenly corpse I never saw or expect to see on the face of the earth. His face was so happy. I have seen our bishop tarred and feathered in the streets of Missouri. They took off his shirt and covered him with tar and then took a pillow and turned the feathers over him. I looked at him and thought if ever man was counted worthy to be a martyr, he was. His life proved it for he lived an upright and honorable life and was beloved by the prophet while he lived and after he died the prophet honored him. Two of his sisters were Joseph's wives. Emma took them by the hand and gave them to Joseph.

I asked him if Emma knew about me, and he said, "Emma thinks the world of you." I was not sealed to him until I had a witness. I had been dreaming for a number of years I was his wife. I thought I was a great sinner. I prayed to God to take it from me for I felt it was a sin; but when Joseph sent for me he told me all of these things. "Well," said I, "don't you think it was an angel of the devil that told you these things?" Said he, "No, it was an angel of God. God Almighty showed me the difference between an angel of light and Satan's angels. The angel came to me three times between the years of 1834 and 1842 and said I was to obey that principle or he would slay me. "But," said he, "they called me a false and fallen prophet but I am more in favor with my God this day than I ever was in all my life before. I know that I shall be saved in the Kingdom of God. I have the oath of God upon it and God cannot lie; all that he gives me I shall take with me for I have that authority and that power conferred upon me."

Well, I talked with him for a long time and finally I told him I would never be sealed to him until I had a witness. Said he, "You shall have a witness." Said I, "If God told you that, why does he not tell me?" He asked me if I was going to be a traitor. "I have never told a mortal and shall never tell a mortal I had such a talk from a married man," said I. "Well," said he, "pray earnestly for the angel said to me you should have a witness." Well, Brigham Young was with me. He said if I had a witness he wanted to know it. "Why should I tell you?" said I. "Well," said he, "I want to know for myself." Said he, "Do you know what Joseph said? Since we left the office the angel appeared to him and told him he was well pleased with him and that you should have a witness."

I made it a subject of prayer and I worried about it because I did not dare to speak to a living being except Brigham Young. I went out and got between three haystacks where no one could see me. As I knelt down I thought, why not pray as Moses did? He prayed with his hands raised. When his hands were raised, Israel was victorious, but when they were not raised, the Philistines were victorious. I lifted my hands and I have heard Joseph say the angels covered their faces. I knelt down and if ever a poor mortal prayed, I did. A few nights after that an angel of the Lord came to me and if ever a thrill went through a mortal, it went through me. I gazed upon the clothes and figure but the eyes were like lightning. They pierced me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. I was frightened almost to death for a moment. I tried to waken my aunt, but I could not. The angel leaned over me and the light was very great, although it was night. When my aunt woke up she said she had seen a figure in white robes p*** from our bed to my mother's bed and p*** out of the window.

[RealFakeHair]

All this is sicking!

[Pa Pa]

It is well-known that Smith had 34 wives.

It is well-known that he married (sealed) 7 women under the age of 18, 14 years old Helen mar Kimble ; Nancy Winchester, age 15; Fanny Alger and Flora Woodworth, both 16, and at the age of 17, Flora Ann Woodworth, Sarah Laurence and Lucy Walker.

Since these women, excepting Fanny were all taken by Joseph at a later age, and some could possibly argue (unsuccessfully though) that this does not cons***ute pedophilia. and to be honest, I was reluctant to make that charge until I saw this as an entry on wikipedia about Mary Elizabeth Rollins Leightner IN HER OWN WORDS:

9 April 1818 in Lima, New York–17 December 1913 in Minersville, Utah) Claimed that Smith had a private conversation with her in 1831 when she was twelve years old,[32][33]

[At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. … In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife … [In 1842 I] went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing … for time, and all Eternity. I did just as Joseph told me to do[.]

After Smith's death, she remarried, becoming the 24th plural wife of Brigham Young. They married in 1845 and she bore him no children. Mary Elizabeth and her sister Caroline were instrumental in salvaging printed pages of the Book of Commandments when the printing press was destroyed by a mob on 20 July 1833.[34]

footnootes:

32 Newell & Avery 1994, pp. 65, .

33 a b c Compton 1997
34 Carter, Kate (1962), Our Pioneer Heritage, Salt Lake City, UT: Daughters of Utah Pioneers, p. 308


NOTE
When this woman was 12 years old, Joseph was 26 (1834 minus 1805) This is what is called "grooming" by a pedophile to a victim

It couldn't be much clearer that here is a woman describing that sort of behavior, and there is only ONE possible outcome: JOSEPH SMITH WAS A PEDOPHILE

Does the Bible record any of the prophets of a just, righteous and holy God as having behaviors of a pedophile.Do you lack confidence in you argument that you need bright colors and large font to make your case. My grandfather at 21 married his wife at 13, had nine children and a 60+ year marriage. So was my minister grandfathers pedophile?

[RealFakeHair]

Do you lack confidence in you argument that you need bright colors and large font to make your case. My grandfather at 21 married his wife at 13, had nine children and a 60+ year marriage. So was my minister grandfathers pedophile?

All in a state of mind. If Joseph Smith jr. had at the age of 21 looked upon Mary Rollins a person whom he wish to marry and had courted her and then married her, and if this was his only wife to be them your argument would have wroth.

[James Banta]

[Novato;151380]The Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU
Mary Lightner, Address to Brigham Young University, 1905,
BYU Archives and M****cripts
Source: Mary Elizabeth Lightner, Address at Brigham Young University,
April 14, 1905, typescript, BYU.

Remarks by Sister Mary E. Lightner who was sealed to Joseph Smith in 1842. She is 87 years of age.]

Welcome back.. I guess you can see that the forum has grown and not died after all.. Did this post of a young MARRIED woman submitting to Joseph Smith as his wife have some other message other than what the Christian have been saying about Smith's wife stealing activities? You did know that she was married to Adam Lightner? I see a polyandrous marriage as just another way of teaching that adultery as a good thing.. Right there in the quote I see that the spirit of God was showing her his truth before she went to convince herself of the lies she really wanted to believe "I had been dreaming for a number of years I was his wife. I thought I was a great sinner. " She knew that even marrying spiritually was a betrayal of her vows to her husband.

Also your post makes it look like Mary Lightner was 87 years old when she married Smith.. She was 23! She was 87 when he addressed missionaries at BYU.. I know you were aware of that but your post made it look like she was old when her marriage to Joseph Smith was conducted.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Do you lack confidence in you argument that you need bright colors and large font to make your case. My grandfather at 21 married his wife at 13, had nine children and a 60+ year marriage. So was my minister grandfathers pedophile?

YES! It doesn't matter what he did for a living.. That is pedophila.. Today such a relationship would send a man to jail. Just because he never got caught doesn't mean that he was justified in such a marriage..

Most LDS people condemn Tom Green for his marriage to his 13 year old wife. Mr Green spent six years in jail for his crime. Maybe that is what should have been done to your grandfather. What was wrong with your grandmother's parents to allow her to marry when she was just a child.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Do you lack confidence in you argument that you need bright colors and large font to make your case. My grandfather at 21 married his wife at 13, had nine children and a 60+ year marriage. So was my minister grandfathers pedophile?


All in a state of mind. If Joseph Smith jr. had at the age of 21 looked upon Mary Rollins a person whom he wish to marry and had courted her and then married her, and if this was his only wife to be them your argument would have wroth.
So the original posters comments have nothing to do with age. BS.

[Pa Pa]

YES! It doesn't matter what he did for a living.. That is pedophila.. Today such a relationship would send a man to jail. Just because he never got caught doesn't mean that he was justified in such a marriage..

Most LDS people condemn Tom Green for his marriage to his 13 year old wife. This was in 1901, Georgia, my grandmother did not even have to get the consent of her parents. Moron.

[RealFakeHair]

This was in 1901, Georgia, my grandmother did not even have to get the consent of her parents. Moron.

Did your grandfather use religion to convince your grandmaother to marry him?

[RealFakeHair]

http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/1f3f01b5-988a-4d03-9fd7-19eca73ea060
Man, Joseph Smith jr. Would love this place!

[Pa Pa]

Did your grandfather use religion to convince your grandmaother to marry him?No, but religion played a big part of why this was legal in Georgia in 1901.

[RealFakeHair]

No, but religion played a big part of why this was legal in Georgia in 1901.

There are many methods of coercion, money, land, family connections, religion, and love, as well as others reasons.
The lowest of lows in all of humanity is when a person used religion as a method of coercion as did Joseph Smith jr. Did.
Promising goddessness to a young innocence girl if she would have sex with him. This is the life of Joseph Smith jr.

[Pa Pa]

There are many methods of coercion, money, land, family connections, religion, and love, as well as others reasons.
The lowest of lows in all of humanity is when a person used religion as a method of coercion as did Joseph Smith jr. Did.
Promising goddessness to a young innocence girl if she would have sex with him. This is the life of Joseph Smith jr.13 year old woman were woman by law, if Alabama it is still 14. As it was the countries and states that allowed for such law. John Quincy Adams was sporting a 15 year old, and despite their would have married but James Quincy, were for fore bedded Buy

[RealFakeHair]

13 year old woman were woman by law, if Alabama it is still 14. As it was the countries and states that allowed for such law. John Quincy Adams was sporting a 15 year old, and despite their would have married but James Quincy, were for fore bedded Buy

Are we missing something here? I know the history of the South in the early 1900s and before. I have no problem with 13 year olds proposal of marriage to older non-married men.

[neverending]

This was in 1901, Georgia, my grandmother did not even have to get the consent of her parents. Moron.

Name calling will not get you anywhere! And certainly wasn't necessary. And just because the state of Georgia allowed a child of 13 to marry, doesn't make it right! Gad, use your brain Papa. Do you have a daughter? Would you allow her to marry at 13 to a man of 21? I think I know the answer to that. There are many states in this country that have laws that are not fit for people who are Christian or have good morals.

[James Banta]

This was in 1901, Georgia, my grandmother did not even have to get the consent of her parents. Moron.

I will not get into a name calling war with you.. I used to find you lost but sincere in your posts but after your name calling I take that back.. Your grandfather at 21 was a pedophile getting romantically involved with a 13 year old baby girl. What knowledge or wisdom has a 13 years old to make such life changing decisions as marriage.. She had no time to play with dolls before having a baby to care for. She was still a baby herself.. It was because of the perversion of grown men burning in lust for children that governments had to step in and put an end to child abuse like grown men taking little girls into their home and beds Just because the state at that time didn't have standards for child being marries doesn't make your sick perverted grandfather innocent in his actions.. He was without honor by the evidence from your own lips..

I see that you don't find it at all important to check your facts before you post. Here are the legal ages for marriage today in the states herein discussed.

Georgia
Minimum Legal Age With Parental Consent Male: 16; Female: 16
Minimum Legal Age Without Parental Consent Male: 18; Female: 18

Alabama
Minimum Legal Age With Parental Consent Male: 16; Female: 16
Minimum Legal Age Without Parental Consent Male: 18; Female: 18 (http://statelaws.findlaw.com/family-laws/marriage-age-requirements.html)

Go look it up.. I know you won't believe me..

This wasn't the first time you were wrong and I am sure it won't be the last..

Does it matter if the Laws were in place in the early 20th century. In that day there were people that put 7 and 8 year old children to work in the mines and mills.. Was that legal? yes.. Was it wrong? YES! Were the people that allowed their industries to employ those babies moral? NO!! Neither was it moral to put a 13 year into marriage.. Now, or anytime.. Governments seem to agree with this moron, the change in the laws support that.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

There are many methods of coercion, money, land, family connections, religion, and love, as well as others reasons.
The lowest of lows in all of humanity is when a person used religion as a method of coercion as did Joseph Smith jr. Did.
Promising goddessness to a young innocence girl if she would have sex with him. This is the life of Joseph Smith jr.
Yes, Abraham, Moses, Jacob...oh wait,don't those just the ugly Mormons.

[James Banta]

Yes, Abraham, Moses, Jacob...oh wait,don't those just the ugly Mormons.

I am lost, easy thing to have happen.. Where were any of these men commanded by God to be polygamists? Do you have proof that Moses ever lived in polygamy? Israel was tricked into his polygamy.. Even that wasn't God's doing.. I am curious to know what under heaven you are thinking.. It sure isn't what the Bible teaches..
IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

I will not get into a name calling war with you.. I used to find you lost but sincere in your posts but after your name calling I take that back.. Your grandfather at 21 was a pedophile getting romantically involved with a 13 year old baby girl. What knowledge or wisdom has a 13 years old to make such life changing decisions as marriage.. She had no time to play with dolls before having a baby to care for. She was still a baby herself.. It was because of the perversion of grown men burning in lust for children that governments had to step in and put an end to child abuse like grown men taking little girls into their home and beds Just because the state at that time didn't have standards for child being marries doesn't make your sick perverted grandfather innocent in his actions.. He was without honor by the evidence from your own lips..

I see that you don't find it at all important to check your facts before you post. Here are the legal ages for marriage today in the states herein discussed.

Georgia
Minimum Legal Age With Parental Consent Male: 16; Female: 16
Minimum Legal Age Without Parental Consent Male: 18; Female: 18

Alabama
Minimum Legal Age With Parental Consent Male: 16; Female: 16
Minimum Legal Age Without Parental Consent Male: 18; Female: 18 (http://statelaws.findlaw.com/family-laws/marriage-age-requirements.html)

Go look it up.. I know you won't believe me..

This wasn't the first time you were wrong and I am sure it won't be the last..

Does it matter if the Laws were in place in the early 20th century. In that day there were people that put 7 and 8 year old children to work in the mines and mills.. Was that legal? yes.. Was it wrong? YES! Were the people that allowed their industries to employ those babies moral? NO!! Neither was it moral to put a 13 year into marriage.. Now, or anytime.. Governments seem to agree with this moron, the change in the laws support that.. IHS jimI know you are from out West, but this is Georgia mountain folk in post Civil War South. Thank the wife for the cheep shot about Georgia. Also to gross sin you speak of does not refer to age as it does boys are girls pre****scent.

[neverending]

I know you are from out West, but this is Georgia mountain folk in post Civil War South. Thank the wife for the cheep shot about Georgia. Also to gross sin you speak of does not refer to age as it does boys are girls pre****scent.

My comment was not a cheap shot at Georgia. I was speaking truth! If your state was allowing young children to marry, that was wrong! Are you accepting of young girls being married? They are children! Sure, life was very different back in the 1800's but a 13 year old child is still a child and didn't and doesn't have the maturity necessary to be a wife. I think you need to look back at my comments and do some serious thinking.

[Apologette]

It is well-known that Smith had 34 wives.

It is well-known that he married (sealed) 7 women under the age of 18, 14 years old Helen mar Kimble ; Nancy Winchester, age 15; Fanny Alger and Flora Woodworth, both 16, and at the age of 17, Flora Ann Woodworth, Sarah Laurence and Lucy Walker.

Since these women, excepting Fanny were all taken by Joseph at a later age, and some could possibly argue (unsuccessfully though) that this does not cons***ute pedophilia. and to be honest, I was reluctant to make that charge until I saw this as an entry on wikipedia about Mary Elizabeth Rollins Leightner IN HER OWN WORDS:

9 April 1818 in Lima, New York–17 December 1913 in Minersville, Utah) Claimed that Smith had a private conversation with her in 1831 when she was twelve years old,[32][33]

[At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. … In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife … [In 1842 I] went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing … for time, and all Eternity. I did just as Joseph told me to do[.]

After Smith's death, she remarried, becoming the 24th plural wife of Brigham Young. They married in 1845 and she bore him no children. Mary Elizabeth and her sister Caroline were instrumental in salvaging printed pages of the Book of Commandments when the printing press was destroyed by a mob on 20 July 1833.[34]

footnootes:

32 Newell & Avery 1994, pp. 65, .

33 a b c Compton 1997
34 Carter, Kate (1962), Our Pioneer Heritage, Salt Lake City, UT: Daughters of Utah Pioneers, p. 308


NOTE
When this woman was 12 years old, Joseph was 26 (1834 minus 1805) This is what is called "grooming" by a pedophile to a victim

It couldn't be much clearer that here is a woman describing that sort of behavior, and there is only ONE possible outcome: JOSEPH SMITH WAS A PEDOPHILE

Does the Bible record any of the prophets of a just, righteous and holy God as having behaviors of a pedophile.

He was also a "groomer" and a "stalker." He preyed on young girls Emma had invited to live in their home such as Fanny Alger. I believe the Partridge sisters and the Lawrence sisters. These tactics are commonly used by those who engage in sexual contact with younger girls, especially in incestuous instances in the family home. Most often the girls are afraid to divulge what is going on because of intimidation and embar***ment.

[Apologette]

I know you are from out West, but this is Georgia mountain folk in post Civil War South. Thank the wife for the cheep shot about Georgia. Also to gross sin you speak of does not refer to age as it does boys are girls pre****scent.

In the case of early marriage in the deep south or even in the southwest where I live( in earlier times) girls may have married at young ages. However, this has nothing to do with a married man who preys upon younger girls, even young girls brought into his own household to be watched over. Apples and oranges PaPa. Don't forget, Smith claimed to be in touch with God on a constant basis, and told these young girls that his pursuit of them was angel-directed. Big difference here. Social norms of the nineteenth century prove that women generally waited until they were near twenty to marry by the way.

[James Banta]

I know you are from out West, but this is Georgia mountain folk in post Civil War South. Thank the wife for the cheep shot about Georgia. Also to gross sin you speak of does not refer to age as it does boys are girls pre****scent.

You may want to apologize for the personal attack before trying to justify child sexual abuse.. That is men in their 30's taking 13 years old girls as wives, and plural wives at that.. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

You may want to apologize for the personal attack before trying to justify child sexual abuse.. That is men in their 30's taking 13 years old girls as wives, and plural wives at that.. IHS jimThe wives get younger and younger. What no once has ever been able to explain is how Joseph never had any offspring with 34 different women. Some of these women swore that the had Joseph's baby, all were lying. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that some were polygamist (true wives), but you dwell on the very young and pay no mind to the very old he was sealed too.

[Pa Pa]

You may want to apologize for the personal attack before trying to justify child sexual abuse.. That is men in their 30's taking 13 years old girls as wives, and plural wives at that.. IHS jimWhat have I ever said that meant I approve or made apologies?

[Apologette]

The wives get younger and younger. What no once has ever been able to explain is how Joseph never had any offspring with 34 different women. Some of these women swore that the had Joseph's baby, all were lying. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that some were polygamist (true wives), but you dwell on the very young and pay no mind to the very old he was sealed too.

As you well know, D&C 132 commands that plurality is only to be entered into to "raise up seed" to the Mormon deity. Read it again. Are you suggesting that Smith didn't intend to do that when entering into these "marriages?" And please don't be so naive that you think Smith didn't have sex with his wives, when Brigham Young got fourteen of Smith's plurals to sign affidavits that they did have sex with him when the Reorganized Church was accusing Young of starting the whole polygamy mess. And by t he way, go to a medical book and look up coitus interruptus, the common method of nineteenth century birth control. There is also the issue of Smith making his "wives" live with other men - and in this way covering up any mistakes. Bennett was always around if further measures needed to be taken.

[Pa Pa]

As you well know, D&C 132 commands that plurality is only to be entered into to "raise up seed" to the Mormon deity. Read it again. Are you suggesting that Smith didn't intend to do that when entering into these "marriages?" And please don't be so naive that you think Smith didn't have sex with his wives, when Brigham Young got fourteen of Smith's plurals to sign affidavits that they did have sex with him when the Reorganized Church was accusing Young of starting the whole polygamy mess. And by t he way, go to a medical book and look up coitus interruptus, the common method of nineteenth century birth control. There is also the issue of Smith making his "wives" live with other men - and in this way covering up any mistakes. Bennett was always around if further measures needed to be taken.
That is no longer required...also it says to those whom this law has been revealed. It is no longer required under any circumstances. Just like no need for the Law of Moses and the sacrifice of animals.

[Apologette]

That is no longer required...also it says to those whom this law has been revealed. It is no longer required under any circumstances. Just like no need for the Law of Moses and the sacrifice of animals.

How do you know that Joseph Smith was telling the truth, PaPa? Why would God change His mind (and the BoM solidly condemns polygamy), and if it was God's will, why would Joseph Smith consistently lie about it? Do you think God told David Koresh to take young teenage girls into his bed (as he did)?

[alanmolstad]

Do you lack confidence in you argument that you need bright colors and large font to make your case. My grandfather at 21 married his wife at 13, had nine children and a 60+ year marriage. So was my minister grandfathers pedophile?

oh yes....your grandfather was a true pedophile to be sure....

[alanmolstad]

The wives get younger and younger. What no once has ever been able to explain is how Joseph never had any offspring with 34 different women..
....likely got a lot of head from the little girls?....or just pulled out?

[alanmolstad]

......The angel leaned over me and the light was very great, although it was night. When my aunt woke up she said she had seen a figure in white robes p*** from our bed to my mother's bed and p*** out of the window.


Let me get this right...


The little girl is sleeping, and wakes up and sees a guy leaning over her,,

and....

This "angel" then jumped out the window?






Ummm,,,ok, I think I know what what that "angel" actually was...

[Apologette]

Do you lack confidence in you argument that you need bright colors and large font to make your case. My grandfather at 21 married his wife at 13, had nine children and a 60+ year marriage. So was my minister grandfathers pedophile?



Well, Papa, he obviously leaned in that direction. Your grandmother's parents were remiss in allowing that. Was she pregnant?

[Erundur]

"[At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. …"



"In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife …"


Question: If JS was command in 1834 to take Mary Elizabeth for a wife, how could he have told her about it in 1831?