dberrie says that Satan is a real god!

[Apologette]

How many Mormons here agree with that?

[Pa Pa]

How many Mormons here agree with that?
Not a one! Satan is a fool and a loser. "Satan has no power over us except that which we give him" (Joseph Smith)

[Apologette]

Not a one! Satan is a fool and a loser. "Satan has no power over us except that which we give him" (Joseph Smith)

Then why does a Mormon, dberrie, say that Satan is a "real god?"

[Pa Pa]

Then why does a Mormon, dberrie, say that Satan is a "real god?"
"If" he does, he is wrong. The only way Satan is aGod is for those who worship him.

[dberrie2000]

How many Mormons here agree with that?

Paul would:


2 Corinthians 4:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Pulpit Commentary

Verse 4. - The god of this world; rather, the god of this age. It is, as Bengel says, "a great and horrible description of the devil." He is not, however, here called a god of the kosmos, but only of the olam hazzeh, the present dispensation of things as it exists among those who refuse to enter that kingdom in which the power of Satan is brought to nought. The melancholy attempt to get rid of Manichean arguments by rendering the verse "in whom God blinded the thoughts of the unbelievers of this world" is set aside by the fact that the terrible description of Satan as "another god" (El acheer) was common among the rabbis.

For me--there seems to be two kingdoms--the kingdom of Light--which has Jesus Christ at it's Head--and the kingdom of darkness--who has satan as it's head. Anyone who is not aware of the power of satan--may very well fall prey to his deceptions.

[Pa Pa]

Paul would:


2 Corinthians 4:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Pulpit Commentary

Verse 4. - The god of this world; rather, the god of this age. It is, as Bengel says, "a great and horrible description of the devil." He is not, however, here called a god of the kosmos, but only of the olam hazzeh, the present dispensation of things as it exists among those who refuse to enter that kingdom in which the power of Satan is brought to nought. The melancholy attempt to get rid of Manichean arguments by rendering the verse "in whom God blinded the thoughts of the unbelievers of this world" is set aside by the fact that the terrible description of Satan as "another god" (El acheer) was common among the rabbis.

For me--there seems to be two kingdoms--the kingdom of Light--which has Jesus Christ at it's Head--and the kingdom of darkness--who has satan as it's head. Anyone who is not aware of the power of satan--may very well fall prey to his deceptions.
This is a reference to whom the wicked honor and obey. Satan is no more a God than I am..."if" you are Mormon you are misleading others and giving them cannon fodder to belittle our beliefs. Stop it!

[James Banta]

This is a reference to whom the wicked honor and obey. Satan is no more a God than I am..."if" you are Mormon you are misleading others and giving them cannon fodder to belittle our beliefs. Stop it!


I am with you PaPa.. We don't need Satan to be evil.. The heart of man is deceitful above all thing.. ALL THINGS that mean our hearts are more deceitful than Satan. We don't need him to be evil.. He also rules over nothing! There is one Kingdom and one King. That is God. Even today Satan and all other evil spirit are subject to Him. The problem Satan has is that he has sin in hm just as we do, but he had special knowledge of God. Like a son of perdition (he is perdition) Satan's sin can never be forgiven. At the judgment he will find his place in the Lake of Fire with all other unrepentant sinners.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

How many Mormons here agree with that?

First off.....We should never, ever name a topic at a fellow member of the message board, as all of us should be allowed to either post of not post on any topic, and never feel like we have been singled out for attack (As this topic has done)

[Apologette]

This is a reference to whom the wicked honor and obey. Satan is no more a God than I am..."if" you are Mormon you are misleading others and giving them cannon fodder to belittle our beliefs. Stop it!
Thank you PaPa.

[Apologette]

First off.....We should never, ever name a topic at a fellow member of the message board, as all of us should be allowed to either post of not post on any topic, and never feel like we have been singled out for attack (As this topic has done)

Either the Mormons acknowledge Satan as a real god or they do not. If they do not, then they should be given an opportunity to disagree with that belief. Papa did well to disagree with that teaching.

[Apologette]

Paul would:


2 Corinthians 4:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Pulpit Commentary

Verse 4. - The god of this world; rather, the god of this age. It is, as Bengel says, "a great and horrible description of the devil." He is not, however, here called a god of the kosmos, but only of the olam hazzeh, the present dispensation of things as it exists among those who refuse to enter that kingdom in which the power of Satan is brought to nought. The melancholy attempt to get rid of Manichean arguments by rendering the verse "in whom God blinded the thoughts of the unbelievers of this world" is set aside by the fact that the terrible description of Satan as "another god" (El acheer) was common among the rabbis.

For me--there seems to be two kingdoms--the kingdom of Light--which has Jesus Christ at it's Head--and the kingdom of darkness--who has satan as it's head. Anyone who is not aware of the power of satan--may very well fall prey to his deceptions.

dberrie's beliefs, which he posts on other forums as well, about Jesus being equal to Satan, and both having a kingdom, is Zoroastrianism.

[BigJulie]

dberrie's beliefs, which he posts on other forums as well, about Jesus being equal to Satan, and both having a kingdom, is Zoroastrianism.

I've read a lot of Dberrie's quotes and I never have come away with the belief that he thinks Jesus is "equal to Satan". Can you please give his quote on this that makes you believe he thinks this?

[BigJulie]

This is a reference to whom the wicked honor and obey. Satan is no more a God than I am..."if" you are Mormon you are misleading others and giving them cannon fodder to belittle our beliefs. Stop it!

Pa Pa, I think Dberrie is just trying to give an explanation of how a "god" (little "g") is used. The term "god" is used in the Bible for idols as well. One mistake I think many make is when they read "god" to mean "God".

[BigJulie]

How many Mormons here agree with that?

Apologette, will you please give your definition of a "real god"?

[Apologette]

Apologette, will you please give your definition of a "real god"?

If you don't know what a real god is, I can't help you. GO to FAIR, where I have been and ask them if Satan is a real and powerful god.

[alanmolstad]

Apologette, will you please give your definition of a "real god"?


This is actually a very good question to ask...

Walter Martin used to say that the first thing we need to do when we seek to convert people is to "Define your terms"

There are so very many terms like "god", "Jesus", "baptize' "holy Spirit" that mean one thing in one religion, and a totally different thing in another religion.

So a good place to start is to ask people to define their terms....

[alanmolstad]

Apologette, will you please give your definition of a "real god"?


This is actually a very good question to ask...

Walter Martin used to say that the first thing we need to do when we seek to convert people is to "Define your terms"

There are so very many terms like "god", "Jesus", "baptize' "holy Spirit" that mean one thing in one religion, and a totally different thing in another religion.

So a good place to start is to ask people to define their terms....

[alanmolstad]

First off.....We should never, ever name a topic at a fellow member of the message board, as all of us should be allowed to either post of not post on any topic, and never feel like we have been singled out for attack (As this topic has done)


Again,I just want to say this,
This topic has a ***le that is clearly aimed at only one member of this message forum and that is something we should never do.

people should feel free to come here and not be attacked by name,
And none of us should be put on the spot like this

[BigJulie]

This is actually a very good question to ask...

Walter Martin used to say that the first thing we need to do when we seek to convert people is to "Define your terms"

There are so very many terms like "god", "Jesus", "baptize' "holy Spirit" that mean one thing in one religion, and a totally different thing in another religion.

So a good place to start is to ask people to define their terms....

Alan, it is good to chat with you again.

I agree, it is good to define terms as I am not even sure what is meant by "real god" (little "g").

I will give you the definitions that you mentioned as I understand them:

1. god (little g): ruler, judge, idol, graven image.
2. Jesus: God, Son of God, Redeemer, Savior of mankind, the only begotten Son of the Father. The One who was born of Mary, died on the cross, and was resurrected and whom without no one can be saved.
3. baptize: to be reborn, immersion in water, outward manifestation of an inward commitment to follow God.
4. Holy Spirit: Holy Ghost, third member of Godhead, bears truth of Jesus Christ.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Paul would:

2 Corinthians 4:4---King James Version (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 4. - The god of this world; rather, the god of this age. It is, as Bengel says, "a great and horrible description of the devil." He is not, however, here called a god of the kosmos, but only of the olam hazzeh, the present dispensation of things as it exists among those who refuse to enter that kingdom in which the power of Satan is brought to nought. The melancholy attempt to get rid of Manichean arguments by rendering the verse "in whom God blinded the thoughts of the unbelievers of this world" is set aside by the fact that the terrible description of Satan as "another god" (El acheer) was common among the rabbis.

For me--there seems to be two kingdoms--the kingdom of Light--which has Jesus Christ at it's Head--and the kingdom of darkness--who has satan as it's head. Anyone who is not aware of the power of satan--may very well fall prey to his deceptions.


dberrie's beliefs, which he posts on other forums as well, about Jesus being equal to Satan, and both having a kingdom, is Zoroastrianism.

Please do give us a quote where dberrie ever postulated satan and Jesus are equal. Cite, please.

My postulation is Paul testified satan is a god--the "god of this world".

If that is true--that certainly destroys any notion Paul was monotheistic--by the modern definition(I believe Paul was monotheistic)--

Full Definition of polytheism--Merriam Webster
: belief in or worship of more than one god

Where do we find a capital "G" there?

[Apologette]

Apologette, will you please give your definition of a "real god"?

There is only ONE God in existence, and He is Father, Son and Holy Ghost.