Fig?

[alanmolstad]

His name is Fig - bearing Thistle.

I liked the way he worded his posts.
I liked the way he never was mean or nasty, and helped control the more hot-tempered posters on both sides of the aisle.

I liked that he caught most of my jokes.


but then...

And then he stopped posting?


Anyone know where he went off too?

[James Banta]

His name is Fig - bearing Thistle.

I liked the way he worded his posts.
I liked the way he never was mean or nasty, and helped control the more hot-tempered posters on both sides of the aisle.

I liked that he caught most of my jokes.


but then...

And then he stopped posting?


Anyone know where he went off too?

Where he always goes... Back to CARM.. IHS jim

[neverending]

His name is Fig - bearing Thistle.

I liked the way he worded his posts.
I liked the way he never was mean or nasty, and helped control the more hot-tempered posters on both sides of the aisle.

I liked that he caught most of my jokes.


but then...

And then he stopped posting?


Anyone know where he went off too?

Probably ran off screaming into the night because he was sick and tired of your comments and you needing to say something on every thread. I think someone who does that is wanting attention, don't you, that or they are very lonely.

[alanmolstad]

shh, grownups are talking...


The thing about Fig I liked is that he seemed to really enjoy the posts and reading what people had to say.
he was a bit stuck in that he only was interested in Mormon topics....but to each their own I guess....

[Zeus]

Anyone know where he went off too?

Yes.


Where he always goes... Back to CARM.. IHS jim


Probably ran off screaming into the night because he was sick and tired of your comments and you needing to say something on every thread. I think someone who does that is wanting attention, don't you, that or they are very lonely.

No.

Fig finished his mortal race and went to be with his Heavenly Father.

Your non-LDS examples toward the LDS is noted.

[alanmolstad]

Zeus.......can you PM me any details.

I must confess I will grieve.
he was one of the guys on this forum that seemed to enjoy a good laugh...and we are all less with his loss.

[Apologette]

We never know when our earthly life will end - that is why it is so important to know that we are a child of God through faith in the Biblical Christ.

[James Banta]

Yes.

No.

Fig finished his mortal race and went to be with his Heavenly Father.

Your non-LDS examples toward the LDS is noted.


By what authority do you say that Fig went to be with the Father? Was he 100% obedient to the commandments of Jesus? Had he become perfect as the Father is perfect? Had he completely overcome the world? He would be the first LDS I have ever heard of that became worthy of the first resurrection if this is what you are saying.. Seems to me it wasn't that long ago he admitted that he wasn't yet perfect.. The prophet Isaiah admitted that he was a liar, and that he lived among liars. He said "Woe is me for I have seen the Lord of hosts" (Isaiah 6:5).. If a great prophet such as Isaiah admitted that he had sin in his life, that he was a liar how can we believe that Fig was pure before God? Even Paul the Apostle said that "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. (Romans 7:19). If these men who were spiritual giants were sinner before God how much more a sinner was Fig, how much more a sinner are we all?

The ONLY way we can keep the commandments of Jesus the commandments that call for perfections is to have His righteousness imputed to us.

Romans 4:22-25
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

Was Fig so imputed with the righteousness of Jesus or did he rely on his baptism, his church membership, priesthood and his temple marriage? That is an important question. Do you know the answer? IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

We never know when our earthly life will end -.....

I as of yet have not been able to receive any more information on the p***ing of Fig.
Be that it may, should Fig have p***ed away then I would feel very sad over this news.

Fig was at all times with me a true gentleman, never eager to put other people down, easy going when in dialog with me on many issues dealing with what was him main topic of interest, - "Mormonism"

I noted right away when I first came to this forum that Fig seemed to stand out among the Mormon visitors due to his posts that did not seem so steeped in anger and belligerence.

I also noted that when people would respond to his posts with what I felt were needless belligerence on their part,that Fig would turn the cheek and not respond to them in kind.

His fine character might be a credit to his parents and the fine way they raised him.
I would hope this was something he could p*** on to his own children.

I'm not 100% sure why he stopped posting on this forum?
I noted at the time that when he stopped posting here a few other Mormons also dropped out at about the same time.

I thought it was a shame they stopped posting here, but it's a free country..

If anyone knows more about Fig's story please drop me a Private Message , I would like it if you would bring me up to speed.

[Apologette]

I as of yet have not been able to receive any more information on the p***ing of Fig.
Be that it may, should Fig have p***ed away then I would feel very sad over this news.

Fig was at all times with me a true gentleman, never eager to put other people down, easy going when in dialog with me on many issues dealing with what was him main topic of interest, - "Mormonism"

I noted right away when I first came to this forum that Fig seemed to stand out among the Mormon visitors due to his posts that did not seem so steeped in anger and belligerence.

I also noted that when people would respond to his posts with what I felt were needless belligerence on their part,that Fig would turn the cheek and not respond to them in kind.

His fine character might be a credit to his parents and the fine way they raised him.
I would hope this was something he could p*** on to his own children.

I'm not 100% sure why he stopped posting on this forum?
I noted at the time that when he stopped posting here a few other Mormons also dropped out at about the same time.

I thought it was a shame they stopped posting here, but it's a free country..

If anyone knows more about Fig's story please drop me a Private Message , I would like it if you would bring me up to speed.

Well, if works have anything to do with salvation, perhaps "Fig" was a winner. However, works have nothing to do with salvation, and the Devil comes in many guises. God alone knows a man's heart.

[John T]

shh, grownups are talking...


The thing about Fig I liked is that he seemed to really enjoy the posts and reading what people had to say.
he was a bit stuck in that he only was interested in Mormon topics....but to each their own I guess....

There is no accounting for taste, is there? ...but to each their own I guess.... :rolleyes:

[alanmolstad]

There is no accounting for taste, is there? ...but to each their own I guess.... :rolleyes:


There are just so many posters on both sides of the aisle that I wish would learn from the good manners and good humor that Fig showed this Forum....
Fig shared a good example on how to act, how to respond...and how to begin a conversation...

I will miss him.

I wish i could have gotten to know him better...but the internet forums being the way they are that just was not possible.
I hope to learn one day if there are others that knew him as i did, and it would be comforting to be able to sit down on this forum with them and discuss Fig's posts and share stories...

But given the belligerent nature of everyone's posts, that's not going to happen.


Thus all I can say now is that I will miss the guy...

[Apologette]

There are just so many posters on both sides of the aisle that I wish would learn from the good manners and good humor that Fig showed this Forum....
Fig shared a good example on how to act, how to respond...and how to begin a conversation...

I will miss him.

I wish i could have gotten to know him better...but the internet forums being the way they are that just was not possible.
I hope to learn one day if there are others that knew him as i did, and it would be comforting to be able to sit down on this forum with them and discuss Fig's posts and share stories...

But given the belligerent nature of everyone's posts, that's not going to happen.


Thus all I can say now is that I will miss the guy...

The "belligerent nature of everyone's posts?" I think that's over the line. Truth cannot be compromised regardless of the situation. What Jim had to say was especially insightful and biblical. We can't abandon truth for the sake of appearing comp***ionate. Jesus never did. Conviction of the Holy Spirit unto repentance and faith in God the Son, Jesus Christ, is the Biblical path to salvation, and those who have exchanged the Biblical doctrines for the teachings of Mormonism (salvation by works, belief in polytheism, a "created" Jesus, that the Mormon deity is an exalted being from another planet, and that Mormons will become gods, along with their teaching that there is no salvation outside of the LDS Church) have gone their own way.

[alanmolstad]

[B][SIZE=3]
The "belligerent nature of everyone's posts?" I think that's over the line. ......
Calm down, it's just my opinion...

But I do think that everyone would be far better off if they could temper down their reactions like was Fig's example.
It's weird at times here....
This forum almost died due to a lack of posts and posters, yet time and time again I see people acting like they believe that other posters should stop posting?.....

Its weird that some people would come to a open message board forum like this, and then get themselves upset at the fact that there are other people here posting comments.....(It's like, What did they expect?)

[Phoenix]

There are just so many posters on both sides of the aisle that I wish would learn from the good manners and good humor that Fig showed this Forum....
Fig shared a good example on how to act, how to respond...and how to begin a conversation...

I will miss him.

I wish i could have gotten to know him better...but the internet forums being the way they are that just was not possible.
I hope to learn one day if there are others that knew him as i did, and it would be comforting to be able to sit down on this forum with them and discuss Fig's posts and share stories...
But given the belligerent nature of everyone's posts, that's not going to happen.
Thus all I can say now is that I will miss the guy...

I knew him fairly well, for about 8 years, in various other forums and by email conversations we shared. He was just as you say, and his humility and most of all his patience with antagonists were a good example to me. I miss him and think of him often. I have talked to his wife (widow) and when I informed her of the forums in which he posted (she wasn't aware of how involved he was in internet-based apologetics) she told me she was grateful to know that he was a good influence in people's lives. His motto when seeing his beliefs, his intelligence, and his honesty attacked and mocked, was this:

"Turn the other cheek."

His young children should be grateful to have had him for a father even for the short time they knew him on this Earth.

[alanmolstad]

good post...

[John T]

But given the belligerent nature of everyone's posts, that's not going to happen.


Pot, kettle black



But I do think that everyone would be far better off if they could temper down their reactions like was Fig's example.

I guess that you then approve of the MANY times that he was suspended, both here and on CARM for hurling insults instead of dealing with facts.

[alanmolstad]

His young children should be grateful to have had him for a father even for the short time they knew him on this Earth.
he had young kids?...thats too bad.
it will be a **** for them to deal with for a long time.

I was lucky that my dad lived until I was off on my own.
but even then I have found that it's never as good later as it was when dad was alive.

There is the loss of Dad's experience, the helping hand that a dad can bring to a son's tasks.
The advice that is no longer heard.

I have some friends who had to grow up without their dad from an early age, and you can tell when we talk that they really did have a harder time doing things that i took for granted because I grew up with a dad.

[Apologette]

Pot, kettle black




I guess that you then approve of the MANY times that he was suspended, both here and on CARM for hurling insults instead of dealing with facts.

Exactly right JohnT. I recall debating him often on CARM. Too bad that he's dead, but we can't compromise the Gospel to accomodate our "wish" that somebody who denied the Biblical Christ, and in fact, used forums to promote the Impostor "Jesus" of Mormonism is somehow acceptable to God. We aren't acceptable to God in our own persons, because we are sinners and must have the covering of Christ's Blood.

Ultimately, this is why we post I think. So that people won't be lured into the destructive cult of Mormonism, a cult which teaches antichrist doctrines and, in fact, makes itself the vehicle of salvation. The cult teaches belief in Joseph Smith is necessary:

“[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 190


There you have it folks - you must accept Joseph Smith (not Jesus). And that's what Mormons do. Joseph Smith is the central figure in the Mormon cult. And, sadly, that is what Mormons promote - and if they die in that sin, then they die separated from the True and Living God.

Jesus said, the way is narrow. He also said that He was the Way. The Mormon Impostor Jesus is Another Way, a false way. It's always sad when a Mormon, or any other unsaved person, leaves this life with their sins unforgiven through the Blood of Christ, shed upon the cross. The wicked Mormon cult has taught its followers that water and Mormon Jesus' sweat in the Garden of Gethsemane save them.

MRM.org: "In his book "The Promised Messiah," Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote, "Forgiveness is available because Christ the Lord sweat great drops of blood in Gethsemane as he bore the incalculable weight of the sins of all who ever had or ever would repent" (pg. 337). On page 552 of the same book McConkie continues by saying, "In a garden called Gethsemane, outside Jerusalem's walls, in agony beyond compare, he took upon himself the sins of all men on condition of repentance."

McConkie was a Mormon Apostle. You will never find a cross in a Mormon chapel or temple. Mormons have abandoned the cross, and in fact, diminish it. They eschew the Blood of Christ for a bloodless, works-based salvation. And they encourage others to do likewise. Furthermore, they claim they are destined for godhood, a godhood equal with that of their bogus "heavenly father," who Joseph Smith taught was a human being who grew up on another earth, who also had a father:

The false prophet and serial adulterer, Joseph Smith, taught: ""If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it.""

He also taught:

"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings, pg. 345).

That's right, for Joseph Smith God was not always God. In fact, he grew up on another planet:

"It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us;...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did"... (Gospel Principles, 1997 ed, p. 305)


These blasphemous teachings were confirmed by Mormon Orson Apostle Pratt: "We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so one, from one generation to generation" (The Seer, pg. 132). (by the way, Orson Pratt later had to had over his wife to Joe Smith, but that's another story)

Read all about the blasphemous theology of God taught by the Mormon cult here: http://www.mrm.org/god-of-mormonism

Folks, a Mormon may be outwardly a nice person; outwardly easy to talk to - but the minute you attempt to share the truth of the Gospel with them, you'll see another side. They are totally sold out to Joseph Smith's antichrist system, and unless the True and Living God takes away the scales from their eyes, the sad fact is they WILL NOT SEE!

Thanks for reminding us of why we are here John. Good ***.

[Apologette]

I might point out here that Fig used to cast doubt on the Holy Trinity. Here Fig posted a a thread questioning Russ's testimony of faith in Christ? You can find that thread right here:
http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?245-An-Opportunity-for-Russ&highlight=bearing+thistle

Then Mr. Fig proceeds to cast doubt on Russ's testimony (nicely of course). And then makes a swipe at the Holy Trinity:

"Where does the Bible say: "God is a Trinity" " Fig asks.

This is a cl***ic example of Mormon treachery. Of course, the Bible doesn't use the word "Trinity," nor does it use the word Bible (a Greek word) for that matter. However, the Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. One can find the biblical teaching here:

http://bible-truth.org/Trinity.html

Too bad that some depart from this world with faith in a rotten false prophet like Joseph Smith, who after all, said he'd be "god" to the Mormons. And so he is.

Ted Kennedy once said about the death of his brother, Robert: "Do not try to make him larger in death than he was in life." This is good advice.

[alanmolstad]

Yes, I used to love to debate topics with him too!

We disagreed on most everything, yet.....and yet I never felt disrespected.
Fig was always a real gentleman with me, and that is something I will miss.

He was a good sport, witty, seemed to know how to turn a phrase that was both funny and interesting.
Fig also wrote with a style that was easy to read....( a very rare gift)

We never agreed, but we were never disagreeable.

and that brings up the one thing that stands out the most now that Fig has p***ed and I have a chance to think back to him and what things i now take away from knowing him.

I think what I liked the most about him is that he brought out the best in me.

[James Banta]

Yes, I used to love to debate topics with him too!

We disagreed on most everything, yet.....and yet I never felt disrespected.
Fig was always a real gentleman with me, and that is something I will miss.

He was a good sport, witty, seemed to know how to turn a phrase that was both funny and interesting.
Fig also wrote with a style that was easy to read....( a very rare gift)

We never agreed, but we were never disagreeable.

and that brings up the one thing that stands out the most now that Fig has p***ed and I have a chance to think back to him and what things i now take away from knowing him.

I think what I liked the most about him is that he brought out the best in me.

He thought you were corrupt.. As you taught the truth of God's word he saw you as a man blinded by the deceit of men. having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof.. A blind guide who had already fallen in a ditch.. That challenge may have inspired you to search the word of God to confirm what was the truth but the more you told God's truth the more he was convinced that you were a liar.. Not really the salt of the earth was he? IHS jim

[neverending]

Yes, I used to love to debate topics with him too!

We disagreed on most everything, yet.....and yet I never felt disrespected.
Fig was always a real gentleman with me, and that is something I will miss.

He was a good sport, witty, seemed to know how to turn a phrase that was both funny and interesting.
Fig also wrote with a style that was easy to read....( a very rare gift)

We never agreed, but we were never disagreeable.

and that brings up the one thing that stands out the most now that Fig has p***ed and I have a chance to think back to him and what things i now take away from knowing him.

I think what I liked the most about him is that he brought out the best in me.


You're going to have to prove how Fig has brought the best out in you. First off, you don't know ALL the doctrines of the LDS Church and seem to not care. You sing the praises of an LDS man who has p***ed who believed in a false god and Jesus, believed that he could become a god himself, believed he must do good works to obtain his salvation, and that the only ones who can go to be with god are those who are members of his church and were baptized by someone with "Mormon authority", ie. priesthood. Believed that the Bible was corrupt and would pick and choose what he would accept out of it. After all, all LDS have the excuse that the Bible wasn't translated correctly. How do you see anything good in these doctrines or a man who believed in such lies?
So, you can stop singing praises about a dead man, who was lost and is now in Hell! Alan, you have much to learn if you want to be on the Mormonism forum. I suggest you go and educate yourself before posting here again.

[Apologette]

Yes, I used to love to debate topics with him too!

We disagreed on most everything, yet.....and yet I never felt disrespected.
Fig was always a real gentleman with me, and that is something I will miss.

He was a good sport, witty, seemed to know how to turn a phrase that was both funny and interesting.
Fig also wrote with a style that was easy to read....( a very rare gift)

We never agreed, but we were never disagreeable.

and that brings up the one thing that stands out the most now that Fig has p***ed and I have a chance to think back to him and what things i now take away from knowing him.

I think what I liked the most about him is that he brought out the best in me.

Did you ever happen to tell him that unless he repented of believing in the gospel of Joseph Smith, and put His faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that when he died he would be eternally separated from the True and Living God?

[alanmolstad]

Im sure I always spoke what was on my mind....I only hope I did so in a manner equal to the fine manners that Fig always showed me.

[alanmolstad]

Did you ever happen to tell him that unless he repented of believing in the gospel of Joseph Smith, and put His faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that when he died he would be eternally separated from the True and Living God?

can you point me to any of the well known Mormons that post on this forum that when someone said that same statement of yours to them and their reaction was "Oh I didn't know that! Hey thanks for the info, that really changes things"....LOL


Come-on, get cereal....

[alanmolstad]

I have taken the liberty of starting a topic that I hope will be a place where people that knew Fig can visit and read about my last thoughts on the man now that he has p***ed away.

He was a very well-known poster on this and I hear other message forums,and so I think it would be nice and appropriate that if someone has a story to tell or an observation that they take the time to come and share.

I would hope that we are able to find things to share about him that don't just remained anchored in the endless debate seen on all the other topics, (Ok, we all get Fig was a Mormon, but he has left this world so dont be an a$$ ),

[Phoenix]

I have taken the liberty of starting a topic that I hope will be a place where people that knew Fig can visit and read about my last thoughts on the man now that he has p***ed away.

He was a very well-known poster on this and I hear other message forums,and so I think it would be nice and appropriate that if someone has a story to tell or an observation that they take the time to come and share.

I would hope that we are able to find things to share about him that don't just remained anchored in the endless debate seen on all the other topics, (Ok, we all get Fig was a Mormon, but he has left this world so dont be an a$$ ),

Thanks again for being so decent regarding my dear departed friend. He really was a good example of turning the other cheek.

[RealFakeHair]

Thanks again for being so decent regarding my dear departed friend. He really was a good example of turning the other cheek.

This may sound crazy, but did he take his fig to the grave with him? Like isn't it part of his apron?

[alanmolstad]

This may sound crazy, but did he take his fig to the grave with him? Like isn't it part of his apron?
a legitimate question to ask a Mormon if such is the standard thing that a Mormon man does at his death?

I would not want to make this a specific question about Fig alone as thats a bit personal, but I dont think there is any harm in asking what would be the normal thing to happen at the death of any Mormon man in general?

[Apologette]

can you point me to any of the well known Mormons that post on this forum that when someone said that same statement of yours to them and their reaction was "Oh I didn't know that! Hey thanks for the info, that really changes things"....LOL


Come-on, get cereal....

We are commanded to tell them the truth. What they do with it isn't our responsibility.

[alanmolstad]

We are commanded to tell them the truth. What they do with it isn't our responsibility.


well, thats kinda ...Amateur-ish
It's reminds me of that one Bible story of the farmer that walks though his fields casting seed on the ground.
Remember how in the story it says that the farmer cast some of the seed on the rocks and it died, some got cast on the dry ground and it dies, some got cast on the ground and was eaten by birds. etc, etc, etc?

Most people in church that listen to that story in a sermon might think, "What a great story!"

However in the back row of the church you will find the real farmers sitting, and they listen to that same story and think to themselves something very different.

"That farmer is a moron!"
"You cant go around planting your crops in such a manner and expect to not starve to death!"
"It's a waste of good seed if you ask me. Why didn't the farmer in the story Prepare The Ground beforehand ?"!


You get way better yields if you correctly prepare the ground before you bring out the seed to be planted.
(Clearly the bible story was from a guy who did not actually make a living in farming)




Let me show you a different way to write here that Saint Paul liked to try in his writings.


If you ever want to know what is the greatest lesson found within the Bible about how to get your point across and how to sway people to your side?.....
Its NOT found in the words spoken by Jesus, (he actually was not all that good at it)

But turn to the book of Philemon.
There from start to finish you will read from the hand of a true master how to get a point across with style, with power, yet with a very soft touch.

http://www.biblegateway.com/p***age/?search=Philemon+1

Paul is not just "telling the truth and then deciding that it's "all up to the other guy to decided to listen or not"
Rather Paul takes his careful time to frame his words, couched in hints dropped.
Paul builds his case...he applies pressurize with love....always with love.

He also leads by example...never lording over the reader.
Paul brings the other person on to his side, by showing that both you and the other person are actually on the same side..

I think that if a person were truly seeking to reach out to people of a different point of view, (or in the case of this Walter Martin Forum), or their different religion, you would NOT see them doing what I see is the main interest on this forum by many people - .(you know what I mean - picking fights, acting smart-mouthed, and making use of person information when and where it serves the best interest of hurting people, etc) Rather you would be a type of poster that would remind you of how Saint Paul acted in his manner of posting in the letter of Philemon.

drawing the other person close....not slamming them, not hitting them with your fist, but reaching out to them in brotherhood.
bringing them to your side with a calm spirit of union...



You speak of your responsibility
What is your responsibility?

|Your "responsibility" is to make better use of the tools God has given you.
The Bible is said to be a sword, but why do so many use the Bible to do little more than flick the ****ons of the other person?
Why by their nasty at***ude do so many make moot all the important things they tried to say?

Remember, "you" are the Bible the other person is reading first...not the text you fling at them ,
you are the text that they do stop to read.

if you act like a ****, then its not just yourself that is colored by this.
|Its also the religion you were seeking to promote that comes off looking like it's nothing more than a "****'s religion"

And if a person's religion has turned them into a ****, why would anyone seek to take it serious?

[neverending]

Yes.



No.

Fig finished his mortal race and went to be with his Heavenly Father.

Your non-LDS examples toward the LDS is noted.

HI Richard!! Hey, if you like my comment, there will be more and your anti-Christ, anti-Bible and anti-faith saves and let's not forget, anti-Christian comments; are noted too :)

[Zeus]

HI Richard!! Hey, if you like my comment, there will be more and your anti-Christ, anti-Bible and anti-faith saves and let's not forget, anti-Christian comments; are noted too :)

I'm sorry but I think you must have me confused with someone else. :confused:

[neverending]

well, thats kinda ...Amateur-ish
It's reminds me of that one Bible story of the farmer that walks though his fields casting seed on the ground.
Remember how in the story it says that the farmer cast some of the seed on the rocks and it died, some got cast on the dry ground and it dies, some got cast on the ground and was eaten by birds. etc, etc, etc?

Most people in church that listen to that story in a sermon might think, "What a great story!"

However in the back row of the church you will find the real farmers sitting, and they listen to that same story and think to themselves something very different.

"That farmer is a moron!"
"You cant go around planting your crops in such a manner and expect to not starve to death!"
"It's a waste of good seed if you ask me. Why didn't the farmer in the story Prepare The Ground beforehand ?"!


You get way better yields if you correctly prepare the ground before you bring out the seed to be planted.
(Clearly the bible story was from a guy who did not actually make a living in farming)




Let me show you a different way to write here that Saint Paul liked to try in his writings.


If you ever want to know what is the greatest lesson found within the Bible about how to get your point across and how to sway people to your side?.....
Its NOT found in the words spoken by Jesus, (he actually was not all that good at it)

But turn to the book of Philemon.
There from start to finish you will read from the hand of a true master how to get a point across with style, with power, yet with a very soft touch.

http://www.biblegateway.com/p***age/?search=Philemon+1

Paul is not just "telling the truth and then deciding that it's "all up to the other guy to decided to listen or not"
Rather Paul takes his careful time to frame his words, couched in hints dropped.
Paul builds his case...he applies pressurize with love....always with love.

He also leads by example...never lording over the reader.
Paul brings the other person on to his side, by showing that both you and the other person are actually on the same side..

I think that if a person were truly seeking to reach out to people of a different point of view, (or in the case of this Walter Martin Forum), or their different religion, you would NOT see them doing what I see is the main interest on this forum by many people - .(you know what I mean - picking fights, acting smart-mouthed, and making use of person information when and where it serves the best interest of hurting people, etc) Rather you would be a type of poster that would remind you of how Saint Paul acted in his manner of posting in the letter of Philemon.

drawing the other person close....not slamming them, not hitting them with your fist, but reaching out to them in brotherhood.
bringing them to your side with a calm spirit of union...



You speak of your responsibility
What is your responsibility?

|Your "responsibility" is to make better use of the tools God has given you.
The Bible is said to be a sword, but why do so many use the Bible to do little more than flick the ****ons of the other person?
Why by their nasty at***ude do so many make moot all the important things they tried to say?

Remember, "you" are the Bible the other person is reading first...not the text you fling at them ,
you are the text that they do stop to read.

if you act like a ****, then its not just yourself that is colored by this.
|Its also the religion you were seeking to promote that comes off looking like it's nothing more than a "****'s religion"

And if a person's religion has turned them into a ****, why would anyone seek to take it serious?

Oh, you mean Mormonism? I've known many Mormons who were ****s! So many of them think they are better then you or I because they have the, "truth"? And for you to criticize Jesus is shameful! I am shocked by your words here and have to say this, why then if your approach of preaching had NO effect on Fig? You must not have spoken well, else he would have listened and turned from Mormonism. So, what happened alan?

[Zeus]

Oh, you mean Mormonism? I've known many Mormons who were ****s! So many of them think they are better then you or I because they have the, "truth"?

But don't you and the other non-Mormons here believe you have the truth? Haven't you recently stated that Mormons are all going to Hell, but that you will be in Heaven? Doesn't this come across as being a "****"? Do you think maybe you have misrepresented Mormons as being ****s based on their convictions?


And for you to criticize Jesus is shameful! I am shocked by your words here and have to say this, why then if your approach of preaching had NO effect on Fig? You must not have spoken well, else he would have listened and turned from Mormonism. So, what happened alan?

I've read a lot of hostility from your posts toward alan. But I have to question this comment. Wouldn't that be like saying that Jesus must not have spoken well since many did not listen and turn from their ways? Is that a fair criticism to make about someone, considering it is the Lord and the Holy Ghost that speak to the heart to convert, not the fluency of the deliverer.

[alanmolstad]

I'm sorry but I think you must have me confused with someone else. :confused:

finally you post.....!

about time ...I was wondering ....

[neverending]

But don't you and the other non-Mormons here believe you have the truth? Haven't you recently stated that Mormons are all going to Hell, but that you will be in Heaven? Doesn't this come across as being a "****"? Do you think maybe you have misrepresented Mormons as being ****s based on their convictions?



I've read a lot of hostility from your posts toward alan. But I have to question this comment. Wouldn't that be like saying that Jesus must not have spoken well since many did not listen and turn from their ways? Is that a fair criticism to make about someone, considering it is the Lord and the Holy Ghost that speak to the heart to convert, not the fluency of the deliverer.

Zeus,
It isn't only Mormons who will go to Hell, it is all unbelievers; all those who reject Jesus Christ and his gospel. Now I know what you're going to say, "Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, his name is on all our Ward and Stake houses." It doesn't matter what you call your church if you're believing doctrines that are counter to the true gospel of Christ which is found ONLY in the Bible, not from some extra-Bibical drivel. And if you've read your BoM, it doesn't even teach the main doctrines of Mormonism for those came through the warped mind of JS and BY. Why claim such a book that doesn't teach Mormon doctrines?
And YES, it is the Holy Spirit that speaks to a person, opening their eyes to God's truths. Most Mormons go around with their eyes closed and never hear the promptings because they are convinced that what they believe is the ONLY truth and anything else is total nonsense and so it must be dismissed as such. Do read 1 John 5:13, that is what I claim and KNOW that someday I will be in heaven. It is there for anyone to read for themselves for it is true.
And for my posts to alan, when someone criticizes my Lord I will come out against that person. To say that Paul was more eloquent then Jesus, that is offensive! The prophets and apostles wrote and said what the Holy Spirit lead them to do. When someone constantly comes across acting like they run this site, I will say something. alan is not the know all of this site but have you not seen that he has something to say on every thread? I say that he is to caught up in himself and his own importance, which I find offensive. He goes on and on about the p***ing of Fig, a member who once made comments here but yet alan failed to convince Fig to come to Jesus, so guess Alan's way of speaking wasn't so eloquent or Fig would have denounced Mormonism. God chooses who will come to Him. I for example questioned Mormonism from a young age and I didn't realize that God's Holy Spirit had been speaking to me for many years til the day I went through the temple to be married.....that was my eye opening moment. I praise GOD for His love and grace.