Here they go again

[James Banta]

This time in Philadelphia the LDS church is going to build a 490,000-square-foot apartment building. I ask again, is this a church or a business? IHS jim

[John T]

This time in Philadelphia the LDS church is going to build a 490,000-square-foot apartment building. I ask again, is this a church or a business? IHS jim

Are you aware of the "Duck Rule"? No it does not have to do with any of the Robinson family on TV.

Here is the rule:
If it walks like a duck, if it swims like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, THEN it is a duck

Therefore the LDS church is a church, and I have my "Maalox moment" to prove it!

[alanmolstad]

when your church takes in a few extra 100 $ you think about adding to the parking lot.

When you take in a few extra $1,000s you think about adding on to the building.

when your church takes in an extra $million bucks, you think about setting up a whole new business line to sell things.

When your church takes in an extra $Billion bucks, you think about adding a new street to the new building for your new International business that you started.....

[alanmolstad]

in retrospect...I don't find much fault with the Mormons starting different business adventures...

I think it's a fine way to go,,,adds to the economy....puts people to work...and is not like they are selling drugs on the street corner or stuff like that.

The Mormons are a big church, they take in a lot of extra money...and they got lots of people that work full-time at finding things to do with that money that are worth the time and effort to do....
|
I don't really think that this or that Mormon-financed building projects or start-up business is really something we should criticize all that much...

we should treat them like any church in that respect..
Yes, we should watch the way they spend their money to make sure its for the greater good, just like we should watch any other church deals.....
Given the fact that your average Mormon is scared to death to speak up and disagree with their leadership, it does fall to non-Mormons to keep a close eye on the Mormon business deals...

And, if the Mormons screw up we should speak up and give them an ear full....but if they are just doing business deals like any other business we should just nod and move on....

[James Banta]

Are you aware of the "Duck Rule"? No it does not have to do with any of the Robinson family on TV.

Here is the rule:
If it walks like a duck, if it swims like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, THEN it is a duck

Therefore the LDS church is a church, and I have my "Maalox moment" to prove it!


Really, you don't see the LDS church building condos, and shopping centers to the tune of 3+ billion dollars? I am not talking about the wasted money they use primarily to service the dead (Temple building).. I am talking about their commercial activities.. They walk like businessmen, they swim like businessmen. and they quack like businessmen.. They must businessmen and mormonism must be a business... IHS jim

[James Banta]

when your church takes in a few extra 100 $ you think about adding to the parking lot.

When you take in a few extra $1,000s you think about adding on to the building.

when your church takes in an extra $million bucks, you think about setting up a whole new business line to sell things.

When your church takes in an extra $Billion bucks, you think about adding a new street to the new building for your new International business that you started.....

Maybe yours does.. Mine thinks about supporting more missionaries, and being of service to others that have almost nothing. I see the Church using the Lord's resources in that manner.. I don't see the Church wasting Her Lord's resources on self promotion with an eye to expand Her own wealth.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

They are bringing in high-paying construction ***s, providing places for people to live, helping with the rejuvenation an area of town that had been underused ...
It sure sounds to me like the church is being a good neighbor...


When you are in a small church with a few buck$ to spend you think about new carpet.
When you are in a bigger church with a lot of money to spend you think about an addition to the building, or perhaps new blacktop in the parking lot.
But when your church is a multimillion in the black, then you got to think in terms of the biggest bang for the buck.

a 30 story building as part of a new temple project area is what that kind of money can get you.

Yes, we should keep tabs on how Mormon money is spent, we don't want to see any money used if the results dont add to the lives of people.
And because of how most Mormons don't have any ability or the guts to challenge their Church leadership (Typical for a CULTS) , it falls to everyone to keep an eye out for trouble.

But so far I dont see any need to criticize this building project at all.

Lots of people are going to be employed in the construction and in the maintenance and staff of this building, and thats good for families

[James Banta]

in retrospect...I don't find much fault with the Mormons starting different business adventures...

I think it's a fine way to go,,,adds to the economy....puts people to work...and is not like they are selling drugs on the street corner or stuff like that.

The Mormons are a big church, they take in a lot of extra money...and they got lots of people that work full-time at finding things to do with that money that are worth the time and effort to do....
|
I don't really think that this or that Mormon-financed building projects or start-up business is really something we should criticize all that much...

we should treat them like any church in that respect..
Yes, we should watch the way they spend their money to make sure its for the greater good, just like we should watch any other church deals.....
Given the fact that your average Mormon is scared to death to speak up and disagree with their leadership, it does fall to non-Mormons to keep a close eye on the Mormon business deals...

And, if the Mormons screw up we should speak up and give them an ear full....but if they are just doing business deals like any other business we should just nod and move on....

There are a lot of Work left undone for the Church to busy Herself in the doing.. There are still poor among us. There are still those who are hungry, uneducated, naked, and in need of physical and spiritual rescue. But to the LDS who spend less than 1% of their income on those matters, they build shopping centers and High rise condos.. They love to use James 2 to prove that our faith we teach that alone is the key to God's grace is a dead faith. never the less the Church was in Haiti for over 100 years helping the poor there. We (the Church) have responded to disasters with His (Jesus') resources long before the 1815 Eruption of Mount Tambora. I have no record of actions before that but if the Church was following Her Lord such work continued as long as She does and we have His promise that she will always exist, then such works have always done by the Church.. The Church has never been in the business of business, and "church" that is, is a business not a church.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

While I criticize the Mormon teachings...I dont find any fault at all with how they spend their money on their building projects.
Its going to put a lot of Americans to work.
Its going to build up an area of town that needs help.
its going to put a lot of bread on the tables of a lot of construction workers...

Its to be encouraged in this economy



Now as for the old "But what about the little starving kids in Africa?"
My answer is that while we all feel sorry for people that are in bad situations, we also need to not forget that we all got our own bills to pay too....and that charity starts at home.

So once again, I find a lot of errors with Mormon teachings, I think that joe Smith was a con man, and just made his "Golden Plates" in an effort to get some money or some younger girls in his bed.

But as for the Mormon's building programs?...I just consider that none of our business really and wish them luck with that.....

[John T]

Really, you don't see the LDS church building condos, and shopping centers to the tune of 3+ billion dollars? I am not talking about the wasted money they use primarily to service the dead (Temple building).. I am talking about their commercial activities.. They walk like businessmen, they swim like businessmen. and they quack like businessmen.. They must businessmen and mormonism must be a business... IHS jim

That last statement was a statement of sarcasm and of mockery. I wrote it as if I were a LDS who attempts to deny logical conclusions because he has his "testimony".

[Apologette]

While I criticize the Mormon teachings...I dont find any fault at all with how they spend their money on their building projects.
Its going to put a lot of Americans to work.
Its going to build up an area of town that needs help.
its going to put a lot of bread on the tables of a lot of construction workers...

Its to be encouraged in this economy



Now as for the old "But what about the little starving kids in Africa?"
My answer is that while we all feel sorry for people that are in bad situations, we also need to not forget that we all got our own bills to pay too....and that charity starts at home.

So once again, I find a lot of errors with Mormon teachings, I think that joe Smith was a con man, and just made his "Golden Plates" in an effort to get some money or some younger girls in his bed.

But as for the Mormon's building programs?...I just consider that none of our business really and wish them luck with that.....

You don't mind how they spend the money of their ***hers to erect even more money making propositions like apartment buildings. How can I take that SERIOUSLY? Mormonism is a cult which operates with filthy lucre, making merchandise of men's souls. Maybe you should read the book, "The Mormon Empire," so that you can grasp that aspect of this dangerous cult.

[alanmolstad]

You don't mind how they spend the money of their ***hers to erect even more money making propositions like apartment buildings. .
I dont mind one bit!

It's not my money.
There is nothing, nothing wrong at all with building an apartment building where people can live.

Now as for the "money making proposition" part?...well, I don't have any issues at all with people who want to invest their money in the hope that they will get a good return back.

Do you have a problem with people making money........ comrade?

[Apologette]

I dont mind one bit!

It's not my money.
There is nothing, nothing wrong at all with building an apartment building where people can live.

Now as for the "money making proposition" part?...well, I don't have any issues at all with people who want to invest their money in the hope that they will get a good return back.

Do you have a problem with people making money........ comrade?

You don't mind one bit? But God does.

[alanmolstad]

There is no "anti-apartment" clause to the Golden Rule!...LOL

If my church were in the middle of a building project and a bunch of Mormons were to start badmouthing the deal? I would tell the Mormons to "Mind their own business!"

[James Banta]

There is no "anti-apartment" clause to the Golden Rule!...LOL

If my church were in the middle of a building project and a bunch of Mormons were to start badmouthing the deal? I would tell the Mormons to "Mind their own business!"

Yes Jesus built a lot of homes and rented them out. With the management of the Apostles this plan to make the money needed to see the Gospel taking to the whole world became the way of the Church.. After all the poor are always with us right? No need to worry about serving them.. James 2 only teaches us to work out our own salvation and not to claim the Promise of Jesus that "Whosoever believes in Him will have eternal life".. So to be saved we must have faith in a Jesus that wasn't/isn't the eternal God, be baptized by LDS authority, be confirmed a member of the church by their authority, be married in their temples again ONLY BY THEIR AUTHORITY, and endure to the end in righteousness/obedience to their newly invented laws and ordinances to their newly invented gospel.

Strange James teaches us that we must never hold the rich in preference over the poor, remember not one of the highest GAs of the LDS Church isn't financially RICH. The poor of the church are looked down on and even despised.. I personally attended a priesthood meeting that taught that it was EVIL to be a renter (I was the only renter in the group). That is one area where mormonism fails to keep the admonition of James. I saw other poor in a branch of the LDS church turned away from receiving some hand me downs from the members because they didn't attend their meeting enough.. Is that meeting the teaching of James " If a brother or sister be naked, and des***ute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. " Yet this IS the pattern of mormonism. Building 3 billion dollar shopping centers, purchasing thousands of acres in Florida to harvest lumber not to build homes for the poor but to seek profit by it's sale. And now it's spreading it's VAST real estate holding to Philly.. And this is Good when I see little old ladies in the Church forced into slavery to the LDS church just so they can receive help from their brothers and sisters of the church to buy their medicine, have food on their shelves and pay their utilities? They won't even help each other.. The profit they can gain in worldly business where rust and dust corrupts is far more important than living as James called the Church to live.. And you find this to be Good? What is it you find to be evil? IHS jim

[James Banta]

They are bringing in high-paying construction ***s, providing places for people to live, helping with the rejuvenation an area of town that had been underused ...
It sure sounds to me like the church is being a good neighbor...


When you are in a small church with a few buck$ to spend you think about new carpet.
When you are in a bigger church with a lot of money to spend you think about an addition to the building, or perhaps new blacktop in the parking lot.
But when your church is a multimillion in the black, then you got to think in terms of the biggest bang for the buck.

a 30 story building as part of a new temple project area is what that kind of money can get you.

Yes, we should keep tabs on how Mormon money is spent, we don't want to see any money used if the results dont add to the lives of people.
And because of how most Mormons don't have any ability or the guts to challenge their Church leadership (Typical for a CULTS) , it falls to everyone to keep an eye out for trouble.

But so far I dont see any need to criticize this building project at all.

Lots of people are going to be employed in the construction and in the maintenance and staff of this building, and thats good for families

I am shocked that you don't see evil in a church looking for profit instead of looking to follow the teachings of the Bible.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

That last statement was a statement of sarcasm and of mockery. I wrote it as if I were a LDS who attempts to deny logical conclusions because he has his "testimony".

I am glad to hear that you find the actions of the LDS board of directors to be out of step with the behavior that Jesus taught to us.. IHS jim

[Phoenix]

There is no "anti-apartment" clause to the Golden Rule!...LOL

If my church were in the middle of a building project and a bunch of Mormons were to start badmouthing the deal? I would tell the Mormons to "Mind their own business!"

Thank you for having the courage to defend your position on this issue. If the LDS wanted to, they could point out the investment portfolios of many of the churches of Christendom....probably even the churches of the anti-lds posters who are criticizing you. But the LDS won't criticize wise investing in community-helping projects by other churches, for exactly the reasons you have listed--***s are created, a church maintains its own self-sufficiency, and towns get renovated.

Another reason the LDS won't bad-mouth wise investing by other churches is the same reason you don't do it: It's snarky and arguably immature to do so. Blessings upon you for taking a brave stand on this.

[alanmolstad]

Some of you are not alone in your criticism of how religious people spend money on things other than gifts to the poor,,,,I remember a Bible story where there was once a guy who didn't like the way Jesus was overseeing the spending of money that could have been given to the poor....

So you are in good company.

[Apologette]

Some of you are not alone in your criticism of how religious people spend money on things other than gifts to the poor,,,,I remember a Bible story where there was once a guy who didn't like the way Jesus was overseeing the spending of money that could have been given to the poor....

So you are in good company.

Mormons make merchandise of men's souls. They are the quintessential example of those who embrace religion to gain filthy lucre. I believe the "Brethren" are quite aware that the whole cult is based on a mountain of lies and fraudulent teachings - but they are in it for gain. Read: "The Mormon Corporate Empire" to learn about how "the Brethren" use the cult's income.

[James Banta]

[Phoenix;152799]Thank you for having the courage to defend your position on this issue. If the LDS wanted to, they could point out the investment portfolios of many of the churches of Christendom..

Do IT.. I challenge you.. I attend Sandy Ridge Christian fellowship. It is part of the Conservative Baptist movement of America.. Show me the for profit and or investment profiles for this organization where the proceeds are not used to keep the Great Commission.. They there are cults out there that look to money as their greatest goals. I think of one lead by Joel Osteen the Senior Pastor of Lakewood Church who will deny that Jesus is the only way to the Father but plead for donations weekly on his television broadcasts. Are such that deny God and love money any better at following God than the mormonism who deny that Jesus is the mighty God the everlasting Father? No both are lost in error and sin..

I have made my case very clear. By showing that there are other churches that love money and turn away from God only shows that the LDS are not alone in their sin. The adolescent excuse "But everyone else is doing it" is no excuse at all. In the first place a church whose membership reflects the membership of the larger Body of Christ, is NOT DOING IT. You have yet to show that REAL CHRISTIAN churches hold the same desire for wealth that mormonism does.. I can't wait to see your financial research into the business operations of Christian churches..


probably even the churches of the anti-lds posters who are criticizing you. But the LDS won't criticize wise investing in community-helping projects by other churches, for exactly the reasons you have listed--***s are created, a church maintains its own self-sufficiency, and towns get renovated.

I have shown you proof that the LDS church IS operating for profit businesses. All I am seeing from you is your imagination. If the LDS wants to employee people start with your local leaders.. After all a Bishop has a lot to do and many responsibilities.. He shouldn't have to wait tables (Acts 6:2) when he should be fully involved in ministry.. Let the business of the Church be to reach out to the world with the message of God's grace through the works of Jesus..


Another reason the LDS won't bad-mouth wise investing by other churches is the same reason you don't do it: It's snarky and arguably immature to do so. Blessings upon you for taking a brave stand on this.

Ok now that you have taken my remarks aimed at mormonism and turned them to be a personal attack on me shall we turn back to the subject at hand. Please show me scriptural support for the Church being a money making business or that Christian Church involves Herself in the business of business instead of proclaiming Jesus to the world. I would like to see your evidence that doing so is the will of God for His people.. I don't believe you see your remarks as being personal attacks as I did.. Just remember my remarks were not aimed at any individual but at mormonism, isn't that the purpose of this channel of the forum? IHS jim

[Apologette]

Thank you for having the courage to defend your position on this issue. If the LDS wanted to, they could point out the investment portfolios of many of the churches of Christendom....probably even the churches of the anti-lds posters who are criticizing you. But the LDS won't criticize wise investing in community-helping projects by other churches, for exactly the reasons you have listed--***s are created, a church maintains its own self-sufficiency, and towns get renovated.

Another reason the LDS won't bad-mouth wise investing by other churches is the same reason you don't do it: It's snarky and arguably immature to do so. Blessings upon you for taking a brave stand on this.

Oh, really? I bet they won't point out the income of their own cult, will they? How about being up front about your cult's income - they hide it, and for good reason. If their members knew how their cult was rolling in dough, they'd get a little antsy! Paying to go to the temple is a good example of Mormon blackmail! No ***hing, no go!

[alanmolstad]

Thank you for having the courage to defend your position on this issue. If the LDS wanted to, they could point out the ......
You make a good point.

We Christians should never claim to be "better" that other religions.

Christians forgiven only because we have the one true Savior.
But time after time its clear to the whole world we are not "better"

I mean how much money has the Catholic Church had to cough-up to over the last 20-30 years to pay off their own priest's victims......Im not sure it comes to by now?...Millions?....more that that?...enough to build a 30-story apartment building?

[neverending]

You make a good point.

We Christians should never claim to be "better" that other religions.

Christians forgiven only because we have the one true Savior.
But time after time its clear to the whole world we are not "better"

I mean how much money has the Catholic Church had to cough-up to over the last 20-30 years to pay off their own priest's victims......Im not sure it comes to by now?...Millions?....more that that?...enough to build a 30-story apartment building?

Alan, so which are you doing here? Supporting Mormonism or Christianity? As a member of a small Baptist Church, our Pastor has had to work a second *** to make ends meet. Monies given to our church from ***hes was saved for quite a few years and finally we had enough money to send out mailers, to let people know about our church and what we were about, address and meeting times. Do you know of any Christian Church that spends ***hes in order to own a business? I see any church that does that as using it's members for the leaderships gain and is nothing more then a cult. Remember, the leadership of the LDS Church doesn't have any poor men. All are well educated and have been lawyers, doctors, engineers, and prominent businessmen within the community.
Why does the LDS Church need to build malls and high rise apartments? Isn't it their *** to do the Lord's work? When did Jesus EVER build a mall or high rise apartment? Or for that matter, temples? Millions and even billions have been spent by the LDS Church and their need to acquire more and more money. Is this not treasuring up things on earth and not heavenly things? Give us all a break, ok? Get educated on these cults before you fall prey to one for you are ripe for the picking with you ideas.

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon" (Matthew 6:19-24).

With that said, what example are the LDS showing? Seems that they have a love for money more then a love for God.

[alanmolstad]

[SIZE=3]
Alan, so which are you doing here? Supporting Mormonism or Christianity?

Im telling the truth.......

And, I fully support any Baptist Church Pastor such as yours in his efforts to earn some extra money.

I consider that his private business and none of our business.

And I would defend his actions should anyone (yes, including the Mormons here) be silly enough to attack your pastor's efforts to earn some money and claim that "He was making too much money" ....

Now as far as what the Mormons spend their cash on?......it's none of my concern.

As long as the IRS is happy?...Im happy.

Its really none of my business what the Mormons do with their extra money or what your Baptist church does with it's extra money...

Just as I consider what i do with my money none of the Mormon's business, or the Baptist's business...

The Golden Rule should be our guide here on such matters.


Just keep the IRS happy...that is really the only concern I have about such issues.
So as long as we see that the IRS is happy with what the Mormons are spending their extra money on, then I don't give a rip if they invest it wisely on developing downtown property, or **** the whole wad on new Christmas lights.

It's their money.

[neverending]

Im telling the truth.......

And, I fully support any Baptist Church Pastor such as yours in his efforts to earn some extra money.

I consider that his private business and none of our business.

And I would defend his actions should anyone (yes, including the Mormons here) be silly enough to attack your pastor's efforts to earn some money and claim that "He was making too much money" ....

Now as far as what the Mormons spend their cash on?......it's none of my concern.

As long as the IRS is happy?...Im happy.

Its really none of my business what the Mormons do with their extra money or what your Baptist church does with it's extra money...

Just as I consider what i do with my money none of the Mormon's business, or the Baptist's business...

The Golden Rule should be our guide here on such matters.


Just keep the IRS happy...that is really the only concern I have about such issues.
So as long as we see that the IRS is happy with what the Mormons are spending their extra money on, then I don't give a rip if they invest it wisely on developing downtown property, or **** the whole wad on new Christmas lights.

It's their money.

Then if what the Mormons do is no one's business then none of us should be on this site. As for the IRS, I wouldn't trust the whole lot of them as far as I could throw them. You also think it's ok that the IRS was given orders to spy on conservative non-profit groups? That's for a different forum but not a very good debate on this one. Oh, and since any church is supposed to be a non-profit organization, the IRS has no idea how much money the Mormons have in the bank. They aren't taxed on their buildings. Course these terribly expensive apartment buildings and their mall is another matter and they probably do get taxed on them; which is only right.

[Apologette]

I am shocked that you don't see evil in a church looking for profit instead of looking to follow the teachings of the Bible.. IHS jim

I'd agree. If somebody lives among the Mormons, they'll soon see it's all about money - personal fortunes are a big time evidence in Mormonism of their "god's" blessing. Do you think the cult calls any "fisherman" to be its Apostles? Any mechanics? Any chimney sweeps? Not a chance. The criteria of making it big time in the Mormon cult is 1) relationship to the "elite" of Mormonism - descendant of the Smiths, Youngs and Kim*****, etc.; and 2) Have you made it professionally? Mormonism is all about wealth.

[alanmolstad]

Then if what the Mormons do is no one's business then none of us should be on this site. .


Do, with their money.

What they teach as religious doctrine is open for discussion, so feel free to dig into that.....

[alanmolstad]

the IRS has no idea how much money the Mormons have in the bank.

As long as the Mormons are making the IRS happy by following the rules, then i dont care how much money they make, or what they do with it...
If they want to start making places for people to live?...good for them, i wish them luck.

[Apologette]

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age," (***us 2:11-12).

10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil (1 Tim. 6:10)

[John T]

I'd agree. If somebody lives among the Mormons, they'll soon see it's all about money - personal fortunes are a big time evidence in Mormonism of their "god's" blessing. Do you think the cult calls any "fisherman" to be its Apostles? Any mechanics? Any chimney sweeps? Not a chance. The criteria of making it big time in the Mormon cult is 1) relationship to the "elite" of Mormonism - descendant of the Smiths, Youngs and Kim*****, etc.; and 2) Have you made it professionally? Mormonism is all about wealth.

Yeah, I would imagine if Mitt ever became POTUS, then he would be an "instant 12" or perhaps an "Instant Q70"

[RealFakeHair]

Yeah, I would imagine if Mitt ever became POTUS, then he would be an "instant 12" or perhaps an "Instant Q70"
Which do the TBM obay?
Jesus of the Holy Bible said. "Sell all that you have and come follow me." Or, as Joseph Smith jr. said. "Hey, bab, I have a revelation in my pocket, come follow me."

[James Banta]

Yeah, I would imagine if Mitt ever became POTUS, then he would be an "instant 12" or perhaps an "Instant Q70"

Mitt will never be elected to the presidency. He had his chance.. Mitt is also not close enough to his church to be considered GA material.. He has git a pretty foul mouth.. The outward morality, that which can be seen by others is perfect among GAs.. But who knows they did have J. Golden Kimball. Mitt might fit in, at least as a member of the First Council of Seventy.. ;) IHS jim