Fig will be missed. ( the p***ing of a forum member)

[alanmolstad]

Fig was a good guy to chat with and debate.

Fig was a Mormon...that much was clear to me.

But Fig also was a normal guy....and that's what struck me the most about him.
How different the posts of Fig were compared to all the other Mormons who posted on this forum.

All the other Mormons seem to me to come here with only one thing on their mind...."**** people off"

But Fig actually treated me at all times with respect.
Fig listened to people.
When Fig asked a question on the forum, the way it was phrased was a credit to his skills as a writer.

I never saw him act snotty.
I never saw him act with disrespect.
I never saw him post things that were hurtful.

Due to the nature of this forum and the type of people that come here via our open-door, I have gotten used to seeing the most childish comments posted from BOTH sides of the debate.

But Fig set a tone, a higher standard of behavior.

i never once agreed with fig on any religious question, yet I never felt in all of our conversations that he tried to put me down as a person.

he disagreed with my views....but he was never disagreeable to me as a person.
(A lesson so few learn to do)

He stopped posting here a while ago, Im not sure why?
I always felt bad when I saw he was no longer responding to posts aimed at him...

I will miss him.

[neverending]

Fig was a good guy to chat with and debate.

Fig was a Mormon...that much was clear to me.

But Fig also was a normal guy....and that's what struck me the most about him.
How different the posts of Fig were compared to all the other Mormons who posted on this forum.

All the other Mormons seem to me to come here with only one thing on their mind...."**** people off"

But Fig actually treated me at all times with respect.
Fig listened to people.
When Fig asked a question on the forum, the way it was phrased was a credit to his skills as a writer.

I never saw him act snotty.
I never saw him act with disrespect.
I never saw him post things that were hurtful.

Due to the nature of this forum and the type of people that come here via our open-door, I have gotten used to seeing the most childish comments posted from BOTH sides of the debate.

But Fig set a tone, a higher standard of behavior.

i never once agreed with fig on any religious question, yet I never felt in all of our conversations that he tried to put me down as a person.

he disagreed with my views....but he was never disagreeable to me as a person.
(A lesson so few learn to do)

He stopped posting here a while ago, Im not sure why?
I always felt bad when I saw he was no longer responding to posts aimed at him...

I will miss him.

We ALL know Fig has died. WE need to move on with our lives now. I think your bromance needs to end as well for this is getting a bit sickening and embarr***ing for you. Glad that you felt Fig was such a nice guy but what should really be bothering you is the fact that he is now in Hell! What did you do to try and show him the way to eternal life? Did you witness to Fig and explain to him the TRUE gospel, trying to follow what our Savior told us to do? You want to mourn this man's loss? Mourn for him because he is lost forever and will stand before God to be judged.

[Phoenix]

Fig is not in hell. He is in Paradise.

[alanmolstad]

Fig had a gentle manner about him, and the other day I saw a link on the forum to many of Fig's older posts. In reading the posts you can really get the calmness of the man.
If I have time today I hope to do a copy/paste of a few of his posts that show how a person (In this case a Mormon) can be forceful in his defense of his faith, yet never once rude...

A skill lost on this newer generation it seems :(

[RealFakeHair]

Where is paradise?

[alanmolstad]

Where is paradise?


If all the universe is all that is encomp***ed within Time and Space.....then "paradise" is outside that.

There is no thing made that I can point to that actually compares to "paradise"
The earthly life we have now is one way, the heavenly life we will have one day is a different way.
Nothing here is like anything there.

Thus there is nothing we can point to and say, "there it is" or "it's over there next to that"
There is nothing that we can point to that is close to paradise.

So there is no real earthly answer as to the "where is it?" question

[RealFakeHair]

If all the universe is all that is encomp***ed within Time and Space.....then "paradise" is outside that.

There is no thing made that I can point to that actually compares to "paradise"
The earthly life we have now is one way, the heavenly life we will have one day is a different way.
Nothing here is like anything there.

Thus there is nothing we can point to and say, "there it is" or "it's over there next to that"
There is nothing that we can point to that is close to paradise.

So there is no real earthly answer as to the "where is it?" question
Have you been watching too many Star Trek episodes?

[alanmolstad]

Have you been watching too many Star Trek episodes?Once again, I was remembering how Walter Martin talked about how we can never in a million years, ever come to any understanding of what Heaven is like....for even the phrase "Heaven is like" is actually not going to work....for heaven is not like anything around us in the universe.

[RealFakeHair]

Once again, I was remembering how Walter Martin talked about how we can never in a million years, ever come to any understanding of what Heaven is like....for even the phrase "Heaven is like" is actually not going to work....for heaven is not like anything around us in the universe.

You would have to say that while I am WORKING!

[alanmolstad]

everyone must be at work.....but Im free today...

So Im in charge!



The Mormons must be stumped by the "Jesus is his brother?" question...

So to kill time while one of em figures out how to answer that one, you may ask a question as a topic starter....

[alanmolstad]

Walter Martin was once asked during his radio show about the chances of a caller's friend being saved, even if that friend attended a Mormon church and was married to a Mormon man?

Walter's answer was that we are only going to be judged according to how we responded to the light from heaven we received.

Walter went on to talk about the fact that over the years he had known many Mormons that were always going to attend a Mormon church out of family connections, but who also considered none of the Mormon teachings about God and the person of Jesus as being truthful.

(So in effect, they were bad Mormons)

Walter also talked about how many former-Mormons who once had a strong faith in Smith and the Mormon church only to suddenly find themselves with the "blinders taken off" when they entered into the Mormon temple and saw for themselves what Mormonism is actually all about.


lets remember-
We are after all, saved by Grace THOUGH faith, and that faith is in the Jesus of the Christian church not the so-called "Jesus" found in Mormonism.

So it's not the church building you go in that sends you to heaven or hell, it's the faith in the true Lord jesus Christ that is what Grace is talking about .

Thus, there is every hope for a person that is now p***ed, that regardless of how strongly they may have protested their trust in Smith and the Mormon teachings, as long as they respond correctly within the privacy of their own hearts to the Light from the true Jesus of the christian church they can be saved.

Some Christians object to this idea.

Some Christians hold that the former Mormon must refute all the Mormon teachings,,,be baptized....accept the Holy Spirit..before they are saved.

But I think of it like this:
When a person is trapped down in a pit, and I toss a rope down to them, they tie-off and I drag them out, I'm going to expect that a lot of dirt and filth will still cling to them even after that are saved.

But they are saved none the less.....







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXMUDC_pw8&list=PL12A55D36C180D6E8

keep this teaching in mind when considering the fate of Mormons who have come into our lives for a time and then p***ed.

[Apologette]

Fig is not in hell. He is in Paradise.

Did he repent and come to Christ? The Biblical Christ, and renounce the Impostor of Mormonism?

[Apologette]

We ALL know Fig has died. WE need to move on with our lives now. I think your bromance needs to end as well for this is getting a bit sickening and embarr***ing for you. Glad that you felt Fig was such a nice guy but what should really be bothering you is the fact that he is now in Hell! What did you do to try and show him the way to eternal life? Did you witness to Fig and explain to him the TRUE gospel, trying to follow what our Savior told us to do? You want to mourn this man's loss? Mourn for him because he is lost forever and will stand before God to be judged.

I'd have to agree here. Silly to make a man in death larger than he was in life. Fig combated the Gospel very efficiently. I don't know how many folks he deceived with the lies of Mormonism, but my guess is many. Those who seek to teach others, as you know, come under more intense judgment. Hopefully he repented of, and renounced, Mormonism and left this world covered int he Blood of Christ - if not, however, his death should be a warning to other Mormons that leaving this world "in Joseph Smith," is no more efficacious for salvation than worshipping Buddha. Christ said that no man comes to the Father but by HIM - and that "HIM" is the Jesus we find in Scripture.

[alanmolstad]

You are judged only according to your response to the Light from Heaven you received.

We judge the outward, but our judgement is always incomplete and flawed.

Once a person has p***ed, we who are left should only hope that the person found rest, and that one day if it be the Lord's will we shall all meet them again in God's kingdom.

[Phoenix]

Did he repent and come to Christ?

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me publicly proclaiming that you're being eternally tormented in some pit of fire.
That kind of judgmentalism is something that Mormons leave in the hands of Jesus and/or His Father.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt if I have to predict their future abode.

[James Banta]

[alanmolstad;153227]You are judged only according to your response to the Light from Heaven you received.

Do the LDS have less light than the Church does? Does not nearly ever mormon in the world have their own copy of the scriptures? Didn't Fig have a copy of God's word available to him? Didn't Jesus command us to study the scriptures because in them is the message of Life and they are what testifies of Him (John 5:39).. Even if he never opened the Bible he would still be without excuse (Romans 1:20).. Is the true God that hidden from the world that having faith in His is so hard to be known.. Jesus agreeing with Moses explained Him (Mark 12:29).. Fig will be judged in the full light of what was available to Him.. The fact that the Father is God (John 20:17). The fact that Jesus is God. The fact that the Holy Spirit is God. And yet the Fact that Jesus confirmed that the Fact that God is One Lord. Not being willing to believe God, that He is one dismisses a person to hold faith is a council of gods. Gods that demand works to prove to them our faith. Obedience to their laws to show our devotion? Sorry but id Fig held faith in his mormon gods to the time of his death he gained the same reward of all pagans.. Hell until judgement than the Lake of Fire.. Our judgment in this matter only agrees with the direct teaching of the Lord Jesus:

John 3:38
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


We judge the outward, but our judgement is always incomplete and flawed.

This is not our judgment it is the judgment of God given to us in His word.. His judgment is complete, perfect, just, and eternal..


Once a person has p***ed, we who are left should only hope that the person found rest, and that one day if it be the Lord's will we shall all meet them again in God's kingdom.

That is my prayer for the lost, all of them including the LDS.. Not after their death but here and now in life.. After their death the doors are closed and there is no salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2).. If a person dies that has thrown the grace of God aside putting their hopes in Good works and a man invented priesthood, they have no hope. All there is left to them is God's wrath.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me..........

The P***ings... (a work by Alan , The text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, saw the hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"

[Apologette]

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me publicly proclaiming that you're being eternally tormented in some pit of fire.
That kind of judgmentalism is something that Mormons leave in the hands of Jesus and/or His Father.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt if I have to predict their future abode.
What did you say JEFF?

[Apologette]

You are judged only according to your response to the Light from Heaven you received.

We judge the outward, but our judgement is always incomplete and flawed.

Once a person has p***ed, we who are left should only hope that the person found rest, and that one day if it be the Lord's will we shall all meet them again in God's kingdom.

Sorry, but faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the WORD OF GOD! Mormons aren't exempt from being responsible before God for what they do with the Gospel. I know Jim and Neverending have faithfully told the Mormons here the Gospel of Salvation found in the Bible. Evidence of salvation is found in how we respond to the Gospel. If a person rejects it unto death, what do you suppose that means? Are we to compromise the Words of Christ because somebody was a "nice guy." "Nice Guy" isn't the way to heaven, Christ is.

[RealFakeHair]

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me publicly proclaiming that you're being eternally tormented in some pit of fire.
That kind of judgmentalism is something that Mormons leave in the hands of Jesus and/or His Father.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt if I have to predict their future abode.
Could someone tell me where are all the bad people buried in the cemeteries?

[alanmolstad]

Sorry, but .....
But nothing...

What I have posted is the truth.
You can check it out for yourself here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXMUDC_pw8&list=PL12A55D36C180D6E8
(starting at the :20 sec point in the video clip)

[neverending]

The P***ings... (a work by Alan , The text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, saw the hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"

Alan,
Sure, we were told not to judge but when a person has come right out and cursed God saying that when they die and see God that they will spit in his eye, what then is one to think? This was my brother who has now p***ed away. Even my own father rejected God's truths as James and I presented them to him. My mother who would say, "I know what your church teaches" and would walk out of the room. If we are to believe in God's word and what is said by Christ himself, then I can only say that YES! my parents and brother are not with the Lord but awaiting judgment and the Lake of Fire. To attend an LDS funeral is a very sad experience for no one can rejoice in a life that was never lived for Christ (but living for a false one) and a soul that is not free from pain and not existing with God forever. My heart still is broken knowing I will never see my loved ones again til the day they stand before God; that is why we are so insistent here with trying desperately to show Mormons the truth. God doesn't want to **** his children to Hell but He has to when those children have rejected his free gift of eternal life.
As for Fig, I didn't know him other than to see his handle and a few comments here and there but, Alan, if you know the scriptures and what God himself has told us, then you know that Fig is not with God for he believed in a false god, believing he too would become a god and never trusted in the shed blood of Christ, believing he had to prove himself by doing good works to gain his salvation and obeying all the strange laws and ordinances of Mormonism. Please don't fool yourself or us here.

[alanmolstad]

Alan,
Sure, we were told not to judge but .....

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....

[Apologette]

But nothing...

What I have posted is the truth.
You can check it out for yourself here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXMUDC_pw8&list=PL12A55D36C180D6E8
(starting at the :20 sec point in the video clip)

What I posted was from the Bible - maybe you don't agree with it.

[Apologette]

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....

So, what kind of church do you attend anyway? How do they view salvation?

[Apologette]

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....
But, on the other hand, aren't you simply giving lurkers and others a foolish sense of ***urance - the nice guy salvation lie? Seems to me that you are being deluded by your belief that Fig was such a nice guy and ignoring the truth of the matter. . I won't judge his salvation, but I will tell you this: he consistently fought against the Gospel of Christ, believed in a false god and an Impostor Jesus, and seems to have bamboozled you too. I know for a fact that he preached Mormonism day in and out. That's the danger of Mormonism. Some people become deluded into believing that all these "nice" Mormons are saved. Without Christ. Without the gospel. Take that lie elsewhere.

[James Banta]

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....

Can God judge? Yes? Then when we read his judgements in his word we either deny His righteousness or we submit to them that they are the truth.. If we do that we know that there is one God, that the Father is invisible and Jesus is the physical, image of God's invisible nature, that the Holy Spirit is there to convict of sin and lead us to His salvation by the cross and comfort us of God's faithfulness. Is it therefore wrong to restate God's judgments that we must hold faith in Jesus to gain grace?

Could I set a garden gnome up in my garden and call it Jesus and say that it is the same Jesus that suffered for our sins? Sure I can. If anyone believes in that Jesus gnome will such faith save them or must we have faith in the Jesus revealed in the Bible? Anyone that doesn't have faith in the Jesus of the Bible the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of peace is lost.. If Fig retained his mormon beliefs about who God is then Fig was condemned to hell at his death.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

What I posted was from the Bible - maybe you don't agree with it.I posted a link to a video by Walter Martin, and as far as I know I agree 100% with Walter on what he says in the video.

If there is a question about the teaching from Walter in the video Im not sure I can speak to that matter, but I can try.

Was there anything in the video you have a question about?

[alanmolstad]

[B][SIZE=3]But, on the other hand, aren't you simply giving lurkers ............."lurkers".............eh?

Pay attention to me all you "lurkers", this is what Im trying to say to everyone, including YOU!


What I'm saying here (on post number #17 of this topic), is what I think is not only in-line with proper Christ-like behavior, it's also the best way to reach out to people at such times of loss.



Thats it, thats all Im saying.
Thats what the fuss is all about.

The advice I give you guys here, little as it is, ( again I am referring to post #17 of this topic) is actually better than the things I see posted lately that seem to go on and on, repeating the same tired message, that never worked even one time while Fig was still with us, let alone work now...LOL

I received a Private message the other day on the topic , in the PM the person (who shall remain un-named) went on-and-on with the same dulling comments that they have been making and being ignored for making for years.

That's all they got....
Their gas tank of "evangelism ideas" has run dry.
So they just burp-up the same old stuff as if- "This time it will really sink in!" :rolleyes:

But I got little time to entertain such foolishness.

[neverending]

........"lurkers".............eh?

Pay attention to me all you "lurkers", this is what Im trying to say to everyone, including YOU!


What I'm saying here (on post number #17 of this topic), is what I think is not only in-line with proper Christ-like behavior, it's also the best way to reach out to people at such times of loss.



Thats it, thats all Im saying.
Thats what the fuss is all about.

The advice I give you guys here, little as it is, ( again I am referring to post #17 of this topic) is actually better than the things I see posted lately that seem to go on and on, repeating the same tired message, that never worked even one time while Fig was still with us, let alone work now...LOL

I received a Private message the other day on the topic , in the PM the person (who shall remain un-named) went on-and-on with the same dulling comments that they have been making and being ignored for making for years.

That's all they got....
Their gas tank of "evangelism ideas" has run dry.
So they just burp-up the same old stuff as if- "This time it will really sink in!" :rolleyes:

But I got little time to entertain such foolishness.

alan: which side are you on? And now preaching the cross and Christ's teachings of salvation is foolishness (to those who are perishing). I think you need to point your finger right at yourself. You called Fig your friend? If so, he certainly didn't listen to you either so what was the problem alan? You claimed God chose you before you were born to see His light well, Fig evidently wasn't chosen or he would have seen the light too and been saved.

[alanmolstad]

alan: ...... I think you need to....

There you go again...

Tell you what I will do, I will re-post the main point I am making here on this topic, and if you go over it and if there is something found you think is wrong?, something that is non-Christian?, or shows poor manners?, or is disrespectful of others?,....then you may ask me to go over that again...

[alanmolstad]

The P***ings... (My text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners of their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, or saw the unspoken of hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"

[RealFakeHair]

The P***ings... (My text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners of their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, or saw the unspoken of hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"
Some times we are caught between a rock and a hard spot.
If I knew a person had rejected the Saving Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, and if I were asks the do the poor departed service. I would not place them in Hell or Heaven, but I would put enough info out there so others could make their own call.

[Apologette]

alan: which side are you on? And now preaching the cross and Christ's teachings of salvation is foolishness (to those who are perishing). I think you need to point your finger right at yourself. You called Fig your friend? If so, he certainly didn't listen to you either so what was the problem alan? You claimed God chose you before you were born to see His light well, Fig evidently wasn't chosen or he would have seen the light too and been saved.

I was going to ask the same question.

[Apologette]

The P***ings... (My text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners of their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, or saw the unspoken of hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"

Better that you pray that he found Christ!

[Phoenix]

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....

That was an excellent mini-sermon, and a good reminder for all of us. Thanks for posting it.

[Apologette]

That was an excellent mini-sermon, and a good reminder for all of us. Thanks for posting it.

Well, at least I've told you the truth, Jeff. You need to repent, and all the "mini sermons" from alan won't help you unless you do. You've turned your back on the Gospel and consistently fight against Christians. I hope this Mormon's death has some impact on you - if you die in Joseph Smith you will be eternally separated from God. Come to Christ.

[alanmolstad]

we should always use our screen nwame ( there is a rule about it)

[Apologette]

we should always use our screen nwame ( there is a rule about it)

Maybe you should be more concerned with your current propagation of some kind of univeralism.

[alanmolstad]

my posts have never been better...

and if you check you will see the rule i listed

[alanmolstad]

Maybe you should be more concerned with your current propagation of some kind of univeralism.

I have been out of town for the last few days, and did not see this post until later and then I was not able to really respond until now.

so this is my response:

First off - I would say that none of the things I have ever posted here are my ideas.
I have posted a few links to some Walter Martin videos and that seems to be where you take objection to my actions.

I doubt you actually watched these short videos based on your misunderstanding of what they teach....so I then have to credit your comment about "universalism" to your simply not knowing the details of what you were commenting on.

Secondly - My point is that even when joking we should always try to use the correct screen-name of the person we are addressing.
Now there are some screen names that are difficult to write or say out loud, and i can understand that if a person has a Screen name that is overly long ( like my own)to write that we can expect some shorting without needing to believe its disrespectful of the other person.

Also there is the normal shorting of a longer name that has a common shorter form...Jim for James....Al for Alan....Sue for Suzann etc..and "Fig" for the name he had that was a mile long..that also is normal and does not mean any disrespect to the person.

But on the other hand, there are things that do seem to be a pointed use of a non-screen name for the aim of embarr***ment or to cause hurt and confusion.
That is something that we should point out is against the rules.

The rules that govern this website (that we all have already agreed to follow) do state that we should only use the screen names of others on the forum.


So if in the middle of a conversation any of use make use of a non-screen name when talking to the other person we should also point out if it was "just a joke" to the other person and to others who might get the wrong idea as to what is allowed here as far as showing the proper respect for each other.

[neverending]

I have been out of town for the last few days, and did not see this post until later and then I was not able to really respond until now.

so this is my response:

First off - I would say that none of the things I have ever posted here are my ideas.
I have posted a few links to some Walter Martin videos and that seems to be where you take objection to my actions.

I doubt you actually watched these short videos based on your misunderstanding of what they teach....so I then have to credit your comment about "universalism" to your simply not knowing the details of what you were commenting on.

Secondly - My point is that even when joking we should always try to use the correct screen-name of the person we are addressing.
Now there are some screen names that are difficult to write or say out loud, and i can understand that if a person has a Screen name that is overly long ( like my own)to write that we can expect some shorting without needing to believe its disrespectful of the other person.

Also there is the normal shorting of a longer name that has a common shorter form...Jim for James....Al for Alan....Sue for Suzann etc..and "Fig" for the name he had that was a mile long..that also is normal and does not mean any disrespect to the person.

But on the other hand, there are things that do seem to be a pointed use of a non-screen name for the aim of embarr***ment or to cause hurt and confusion.
That is something that we should point out is against the rules.

The rules that govern this website (that we all have already agreed to follow) do state that we should only use the screen names of others on the forum.


So if in the middle of a conversation any of use make use of a non-screen name when talking to the other person we should also point out if it was "just a joke" to the other person and to others who might get the wrong idea as to what is allowed here as far as showing the proper respect for each other.

Mountains out of mole hills? I really don't see the problem with calling someone by their real name, if that person has no objections. As for my husband, James, well he uses his real name. I don't find it disrespectful at all. Guess you see things differently but as I said, unless someone objects to being called by their real name, I see no problem with doing so.

[alanmolstad]

Mountains out of mole hills? I really don't see the problem with calling someone by their real name, if that person has no objections.
just play by the given rules...that's all any of us should be expected to do.

But I dont think we should just decide for ourselves what rules we shall keep and what ones we get to break.

When we came here and registered we agreed to follow the given rules of the site....
if later we find that we would rather not follow the rules?...then we should perhaps find other websites where we wont look like we cant keep our word...

[neverending]

just play by the given rules...that's all any of us should be expected to do.

But I dont think we should just decide for ourselves what rules we shall keep and what ones we get to break.

When we came here and registered we agreed to follow the given rules of the site....
if later we find that we would rather not follow the rules?...then we should perhaps find other websites where we wont look like we cant keep our word...

alan, get over yourself! You're not any better then anyone else here. If you think so, then you have a huge problem!

[Phoenix]

alan, get over yourself! You're not any better then anyone else here. If you think so, then you have a huge problem!

I think he is better, behavior-wise, than some people here.

[neverending]

I think he is better, behavior-wise, than some people here.

Sure, he is, it's patronizing is all.

[alanmolstad]

I think he is better, behavior-wise, than some people here.
thanks phoenix

I try not to call anyone a "****", but then again neither did Fig so he set a good example for us to follow :)

[RealFakeHair]

thanks phoenix

I try not to call anyone a "****", but then again neither did Fig so he set a good example for us to follow :)

I don't care if I am called a ****, Steve Martin, made millions being a ****!

[alanmolstad]

I don't care if I am called a ****, Steve Martin, made millions being a ****!In that movie do you actually remember anyone calling Steve that?______

[RealFakeHair]

In that movie do you actually remember anyone calling Steve that?______

No really he is a jurk!

[Libby]

Fig was one of the kindest people I have ever known and he is very missed.

Alan, not sure how you found out about his death, but this thread, on this board, was one of the things I was hoping to avoid. People judging him and telling everyone he is burning in hell. He definitely does not deserve that. Appreciate your supporting posts, though.

We are not to place final judgment on anyone. That is God's alone.

[alanmolstad]

Alan, not sure how you found out about his death, but this thread, on this board, was one of the things I was hoping to avoid. .

Hi Libby, long time no see...



There is another topic that I started before this one , I think it's named "Fig?".
( http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3310-Fig )
I started that topic in the effort to see if anyone knew where Fig was?
At some point news came that Fig had p***ed.
I was and am sorry to hear he has left us.
I'm told he had a wife and kids....

He was a good man, a nice and well-mannered member of this forum.
He will be missed.


This topic was just my effort to remember him, and a place to have others who knew him to exchange thoughts.
Yes, along the way you are going to find that not all the posts are going to be sympathetic.
Fig was a Mormon who was known to post comments on Christian-based sites, so there is going to be a few members of the message board that have a ....well, colored history with their interactions with him.

But I took from his posts that he was a quiet man, not given to heated remarks.
I remember how he would keep his comments short.
I remember how he would use a line or two of space between paragraphs (Something I try to copy from time to time too).
I remember how he used words that did not approach being insulting.
I remember when he and I would debate a point that he would keep his target the "idea" and not attack the other person in a personal way.

All such things set a good example for the rest of us.




EDIT ADDITION:
Libby on a side note, in drafting my comment above I went back to the topic ***led "Fig?" that I posted the link to and re-read all the comments.
I learned a great deal about my ability to respond to the posts of others in my re-examination of that topic just now.

I note how my reactions to the posts of others and how their reactions to me seem to have a flow to them.

It's kinda an eye-opening experience to drop back and go over a whole topic like that from time to time to see how the more frequent posters on this forum respond to each other.

And thanks for your kind words.
I will miss Fig....
In the end all I can say to both sides of the cl***ic Mormon/Christian debate is that "Alan and Fig were friends, I pray that Fig has found rest" and leave it at that.

[Apologette]

Fig was one of the kindest people I have ever known and he is very missed.

Alan, not sure how you found out about his death, but this thread, on this board, was one of the things I was hoping to avoid. People judging him and telling everyone he is burning in hell. He definitely does not deserve that. Appreciate your supporting posts, though.

We are not to place final judgment on anyone. That is God's alone. Yes, he very kindly led people astray into Mormonism! You included.

[Sheamus]

There are many "nice guys" on the earth, but being good does not merit heaven. We are worthy only because of what Jesus did for us at Calvary. Sadly, the LDS church missed the boat on that one.

[RealFakeHair]

There are many "nice guys" on the earth, but being good does not merit heaven. We are worthy only because of what Jesus did for us at Calvary. Sadly, the LDS church missed the boat on that one.

Yeah, but the mormon jesus made up for it in Joseph Smith jr. imaginary mind.

[Libby]

Hi Libby, long time no see...



There is another topic that I started before this one , I think it's named "Fig?".
( http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3310-Fig )
I started that topic in the effort to see if anyone knew where Fig was?
At some point news came that Fig had p***ed.
I was and am sorry to hear he has left us.
I'm told he had a wife and kids....

He was a good man, a nice and well-mannered member of this forum.
He will be missed.


This topic was just my effort to remember him, and a place to have others who knew him to exchange thoughts.
Yes, along the way you are going to find that not all the posts are going to be sympathetic.
Fig was a Mormon who was known to post comments on Christian-based sites, so there is going to be a few members of the message board that have a ....well, colored history with their interactions with him.

But I took from his posts that he was a quiet man, not given to heated remarks.
I remember how he would keep his comments short.
I remember how he would use a line or two of space between paragraphs (Something I try to copy from time to time too).
I remember how he used words that did not approach being insulting.
I remember when he and I would debate a point that he would keep his target the "idea" and not attack the other person in a personal way.

All such things set a good example for the rest of us.




EDIT ADDITION:
Libby on a side note, in drafting my comment above I went back to the topic ***led "Fig?" that I posted the link to and re-read all the comments.
I learned a great deal about my ability to respond to the posts of others in my re-examination of that topic just now.

I note how my reactions to the posts of others and how their reactions to me seem to have a flow to them.

It's kinda an eye-opening experience to drop back and go over a whole topic like that from time to time to see how the more frequent posters on this forum respond to each other.

And thanks for your kind words.
I will miss Fig....
In the end all I can say to both sides of the cl***ic Mormon/Christian debate is that "Alan and Fig were friends, I pray that Fig has found rest" and leave it at that.

I have no problem with your very kind remembrance of Fig, Alan. Many of us do remember him kindly and with affection. It's just that I knew any expression of that, on this particular board, would not go without the judgments and unkind words, we have seen here, as a part of this board's "daily bread".

[alanmolstad]

206Libby.....

This has been a weird year for me too>
I have had to face a moment when I looked at my wife for what could well have been the last time.

All I can tell you is that "I am able to let it all slide"....and I think if you remember what Fig was like you would agree with me that he would not allow the rude comments of others get to him.
That's kinda why I liked to read his posts, he never got snotty, he never got personal, and he knew when to press his point, and when to back away and show good manners.

I can tell you that while I wish he was here so we could pick up where we left off, I understand that when the good Lord calls you that is it.
Time to go.

My only wish now that he has found rest.

I would hope that if things go not so good for me with my silly health issue, that you also find it in your heart to also wish that I find rest too.

[Phoenix]

I am already wishing you peace and rest, in both this world and the next, Alan.

By the way, in your updated photo, you look a bit different from your avatar! :)

[Libby]

206Libby.....

This has been a weird year for me too>
I have had to face a moment when I looked at my wife for what could well have been the last time.

All I can tell you is that "I am able to let it all slide"....and I think if you remember what Fig was like you would agree with me that he would not allow the rude comments of others get to him.
That's kinda why I liked to read his posts, he never got snotty, he never got personal, and he knew when to press his point, and when to back away and show good manners.

I can tell you that while I wish he was here so we could pick up where we left off, I understand that when the good Lord calls you that is it.
Time to go.

My only wish now that he has found rest.

I would hope that if things go not so good for me with my silly health issue, that you also find it in your heart to also wish that I find rest too.

I'm very sorry to hear about your trials, Alan. I hope things are going well for you, now. I know what it's like to face death. I've been there, myself, and with several close family members. I wish you peace, no matter what happens....I wish that for everyone on this board.

You're right, that Fig would not have been bothered about unkind words - it wouldn't have changed the kind way he responded to people.

Take good care and God bless.

[alanmolstad]

I am already wishing you peace and rest, in both this world and the next, Alan.

By the way, in your updated photo, you look a bit different from your avatar! :)

its not the years...its the miles.

[Apologette]

There are many "nice guys" on the earth, but being good does not merit heaven. We are worthy only because of what Jesus did for us at Calvary. Sadly, the LDS church missed the boat on that one.

Thank you.

[alanmolstad]

There are many "nice guys" on the earth, .....
Im not so sure about that...

from what I have seen after about 10 years or so on the internet and seeing what goes on, even on forums that are aimed at attracting people that claim to be 'religious" I have my doubts that this world has all that many nice people walking on it at all.

guys like Fig are rare...
The last of the "Gentlemen"