Mormon Temples and the reins***ution of animal sacrifices

[Billyray]

Mormons teach that animal sacrifices will be started up again at some point. This subject is quite interesting to me and I am curious if there are any lds out there who could fill me in on when these sacrifices will begin (if they haven't started already). What animals the lds plan on sacrificing and the logistics of how they will get the animals--i.e. will they have special ranches dedicated to raising these animals? Do they anticipate any negative reaction from the surrounding non lds population?

[Libby]

I've never heard that. Where did you get that information?

[alanmolstad]

I've never heard that. Where did you get that information?
http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2007/12/mormon-prophet-joseph-smith-viewed-pre.html I googled...


I have actually heard this idea myself from a Mormon I knew and worked with in Seattle.

[Libby]

Have to admit, this is completely new to me.

Towards the bottom of the page.

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/sections-10-to-20/section-13-the-restoration-of-the-aaronic-priesthood?lang=eng

[Billyray]

Have to admit, this is completely new to me.

Towards the bottom of the page.

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/sections-10-to-20/section-13-the-restoration-of-the-aaronic-priesthood?lang=eng
Very good Libby you quoted the exact manual that I was going to quote as a reference--since it is in one of the "official LDS publications" and since it is in one of the "official LDS publications" it is considered LDS doctrine. BTW you can find lots of quotes about this from the so-called LDS leaders but if I were to quote these instead of the one that you already quoted then LDS will immediately say something like "he was speaking as a man" etc.

[Billyray]

http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2007/12/mormon-prophet-joseph-smith-viewed-pre.html I googled...


I have actually heard this idea myself from a Mormon I knew and worked with in Seattle.
Chris has a lot of the relevant quotes which any LDS can look up to verify. Many can be found directly at the "Book of Abraham Project" website


Book of Abraham Project
BOAP, c/o W.V Smith
278 TMCB
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602

http://www.boap.org
Book of Abraham Project-->A Joseph Smith Commentary on the Book of Abraham-->Main Text of the Commentary-->In that article search for "animal sacrifices"

[Here is a quote from that article]

". . .President Brigham Young discussed plans for a room in the Salt Lake Temple to be used for animal sacrifices: "[Speaking of the temple plan] Under the pulpit in the west end [Aaronic priesthood end] will be a place to offer sacrifices. There will be an altar prepared for that purpose so that when any sacrifices are to be offered, they should be offered there." [Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 18, 1857, Archives] [Floor plan drawings done during construction of the Salt Lake Temple do not indicate such a room.]. . ."

[Libby]

Very good Libby you quoted the exact manual that I was going to quote as a reference--since it is in one of the "official LDS publications" and since it is in one of the "official LDS publications" it is considered LDS doctrine. BTW you can find lots of quotes about this from the so-called LDS leaders but if I were to quote these instead of the one that you already quoted then LDS will immediately say something like "he was speaking as a man" etc.

This is a priesthood manual, which is probably why I have not heard of it...

Kind of incredible.

[Billyray]

This is a priesthood manual, which is probably why I have not heard of it...

Kind of incredible.
The interesting thing about it is that I would bet if you ask most LDS they haven't heard of this either. The reason I find this subject interesting is because Christians believe that the Jews will rebuild their Temple on the Temple Mount and will reins***ute animal sacrifices--but in their case it is certainly different because they don't believe that the Messiah has come.

[Libby]

The interesting thing about it is that I would bet if you ask most LDS they haven't heard of this either. The reason I find this subject interesting is because Christians believe that the Jews will rebuild their Temple on the Temple Mount and will reins***ute animal sacrifices--but in their case it is certainly different because they don't believe that the Messiah has come.

Yeah, I don't think this is talked about much, because this is the first I have heard of it...and I thought I had heard most everything!

I am going to ask my close LDS friends about this, just to see if they are aware of it.

I hope someone here will have some input, as well.

I have heard different things about the Jews rebuilding the Temple. Most do not really want to reinstate animal sacrifice.

[Libby]

I'm having an interesting conversation with one of my LDS friends, about this, Basically, he is confirming that this is true and has something to do with fulfilling prophecy received through Joseph Smith, when the Aaronic Priesthood was bestowed upon him and Oliver Cowdery.

He sent this quote from JS History.


69 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness. Joseph Smith - History

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1.69?lang=eng

[alanmolstad]

I think I was in my early to mid 20s when i was working on a farm outside the seattle area when the guy I was working with and I started talking about the large Mormon Temple we see on the drive to work each day.

In our conversation I was asking the guy questions about the temple, and at some point....I just pulled out of nowhere that the reason for such things is animal sacrifice, not the weddings and baptisms that go on there now.

I got no clue where this idea came from?
I just sorta said it ....and didnt have any real way to support it at all.

This got the co-worker shaking his head "no" and said that I did not know what i was talking about..

The truth is that I dont know where I came up with this idea of the temples being a place where they would kill animals, but it turned out to be an interesting thing to have said to the young Mormon I was working with.

You see he went home and talked to his dad that very night seeking more proof that I was way off the mark on my comments about the Mormon Temples, and ended up coming to work the next day with a strange look on his face.

later on the 2nd day we were talking on a break and he asked me about how I knew about the Mormon Temple animal sacrifice stuff?

He then went on to tell me that his dad confirmed the things I had been telling him.

I dont remember much else of the topic....

All I came away with from the conversations we had is that the idea of starting to sacrifice animals in the Mormon temple we well-known to the dad....and yet was not something that the younger Mormon I worked with had heard about....

Im not sure why the dad had not taught his son this stuff yet?
Or Im not sure of how important this teaching is within the current mormon church?
But I do know that the teaching is still being promoted , at-least in the case of the dad I ran into and whatever ranking or office he held within the church.

[Libby]

Interesting story, Alan.

The Old Testament Temple was a place for animal sacrifice. The sacrifices were for blood atonement.

The LDS Temple is a "New Testament" Temple, where Christ's blood has already been shed for atonement of our sins.

This animal sacrifice thing, seems to be an "end times" prophecy of some sort, but I really don't understand the reason for it or why it would be required of the Levites.

[Billyray]

This animal sacrifice thing, seems to be an "end times" prophecy of some sort, but I really don't understand the reason for it or why it would be required of the Levites.
Recall that the Jews don't believe that Jesus is their Messiah and from their point of view they are still under the law. In order for them to perform these sacrifices requires a temple for them to do so but their temple can't be built right now because the Dome of the Rock is in the way. But the Bible says that in the latter days they will offer sacrifices so we know that at some point they will rebuild it--when that will happen nobody knows for sure. But the Jews have everything ready to rebuild it at a moments notice. Several years back I was in Jerusalem and went to the Temple Ins***ute which is a stone throw away from the Western Wall--and they discussed how everything is in place for them to rebuild the temple and offer sacrifices again.

Temple Ins***ute
https://www.templeins***ute.org/main.htm

Below is just one of many short Youtube clips that show that the Jews have been preparing--and are prepared to rebuilt their Temple

How is Israel preparing for the temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr9M8jprAcA

[Billyray]

Here is another interesting video showing how serious the Jews are about this--they are building a replica model in Israel to train the Levitical priest for their future role when the Temple will be rebuilt.

Preparing for Service in the Rebuilt Temple - Biblical End Time Prophecies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-rwqOo1K2E

[Libby]

I think I understand this, now. Joseph Smith was saying that the Levites (who convert) must do sacrifices in an LDS Temple, as some kind of res***ution (during the end times).

Thanks for the videos, Billy. I'll watch them, in a bit. I did know there was a Temple rebuilding committee of some kind, but it was my understanding that they were kind of in the minority (for some reason).

Rebuilding of the Jewish Temple is prophecied as an event beginning the end times...yes?

[alanmolstad]

.

Rebuilding of the Jewish Temple is prophesied as an event beginning the end times...yes?well........at best its a wild understanding of a verse here or there in the Bible....

I dont remember Jesus ever saying that it had to be rebuilt...other than the one he built in 3 days....

[Billyray]

I think I understand this, now. Joseph Smith was saying that the Levites (who convert) must do sacrifices in an LDS Temple, as some kind of res***ution (during the end times).

I will have to double check Libby but my understanding is that it is not just the Levites who convert that perform this but this is something that is a true principle of God and must be reinstated and since the priesthood was supposedly restored they have the right and obligation to perform these ordinances and some point. His rationale was that since animal sacrifices pre-date the Mosaic law then this is a true ordinance of God that must be reinstated. From the lds point of view the fullness of the gospel existed prior to the Law of Moses and the Law was given because of unrighteousness and some of the true principles were withdrawn. For example they believe that the Melchizedek priesthood existed along with the ordinances such as temple marriage from Adam down to Moses but because of wickedness the fulness was withdrawn and they were given the Law of Moses which is a step down when compared to what they had prior t this. So the fulness existed which was taken away during the Law, then it was given back when Christ came to the earth, then lost again during the apostasy, then restored again with Joseph Smith. So it is a recurring theme of fullness-->apostasy-->fullness-->apostasy-->fullness (Mormon restoration via Joseph Smith). Anyway it would be nice if the lds on this board could give us their take since this is a fascinating--yet not talked about much--topic to explore.

[Billyray]

Rebuilding of the Jewish Temple is prophecied as an event beginning the end times...yes?
Different Christians have a slightly different take on the events of the last days. But I would say that many (if not most) Christians would say that we are currently in the last days yet the Jewish temple is obviously not rebuilt yet. If what you mean by end times is the "tribulation" period then yes most would say that the Temple will be built before or during this tribulation period because in order for them to perform sacrifices as discussed in the Bible there has to be a standing temple. But this temple could be built at any time as long as it is standing and functional during the tribulation period.

If you or anyone else is interested in end times study I would recommend a book that I read not too long ago by Mark Hitch****. Although I have read several books on this subject Mark's book is fairly new, easy to read, and although some people may disagree with him here or there he does a pretty good *** explaining the end times along with different points of view.

The End: A Complete Overview of Bible Prophecy and the End of Days by Mark Hitch****

[Libby]

I will have to double check Libby but my understanding is that it is not just the Levites who convert that perform this but this is something that is a true principle of God and must be reinstated and since the priesthood was supposedly restored they have the right and obligation to perform these ordinances and some point. His rationale was that since animal sacrifices pre-date the Mosaic law then this is a true ordinance of God that must be reinstated. From the lds point of view the fullness of the gospel existed prior to the Law of Moses and the Law was given because of unrighteousness and some of the true principles were withdrawn. For example they believe that the Melchizedek priesthood existed along with the ordinances such as temple marriage from Adam down to Moses but because of wickedness the fulness was withdrawn and they were given the Law of Moses which is a step down when compared to what they had prior t this. So the fulness existed which was taken away during the Law, then it was given back when Christ came to the earth, then lost again during the apostasy, then restored again with Joseph Smith. So it is a recurring theme of fullness-->apostasy-->fullness-->apostasy-->fullness (Mormon restoration via Joseph Smith). Anyway it would be nice if the lds on this board could give us their take since this is a fascinating--yet not talked about much--topic to explore.

Interesting...and you could be right about the reinstatement of something that was an original ordinance. It's difficult to know for sure. I haven't seen a lot of information on it...and my LDS friend is very knowledgeable on almost all LDS subjects, and he didn't seem to know much about this, either. But, he was aware of it, at least.

[Libby]

Different Christians have a slightly different take on the events of the last days. But I would say that many (if not most) Christians would say that we are currently in the last days yet the Jewish temple is obviously not rebuilt yet. If what you mean by end times is the "tribulation" period then yes most would say that the Temple will be built before or during this tribulation period because in order for them to perform sacrifices as discussed in the Bible there has to be a standing temple. But this temple could be built at any time as long as it is standing and functional during the tribulation period.

If you or anyone else is interested in end times study I would recommend a book that I read not too long ago by Mark Hitch****. Although I have read several books on this subject Mark's book is fairly new, easy to read, and although some people may disagree with him here or there he does a pretty good *** explaining the end times along with different points of view.

The End: A Complete Overview of Bible Prophecy and the End of Days by Mark Hitch****

I haven't been very interested in "end times" stuff, but thank you for the reference, and maybe I'll look into it one of these days. I'll keep that on my book list.

[Apologette]

Interesting story, Alan.

The Old Testament Temple was a place for animal sacrifice. The sacrifices were for blood atonement.

The LDS Temple is a "New Testament" Temple, where Christ's blood has already been shed for atonement of our sins.

This animal sacrifice thing, seems to be an "end times" prophecy of some sort, but I really don't understand the reason for it or why it would be required of the Levites.
Mormon temples are "New Testament temples." Where do you get that? The Body of Christ is the Temple, and the mul***ude of buildings built by the Mormon cult have nothing to do with the New Testament - they have everything to do with Masonry and occult ceremonies!

D&C 84: Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses—for the sons of Moses and also of Aaron [Levi] shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed.


I knew about the re-ins***ution of animal sacrifices taught by Smith, and I was never a Mormon, Praise God! Why wouldn't you? And by the way, you can see this "acceptable offering" prophecy was part of the FALSE PROPHECY about a temple being built in Missouri "in this generation," which never happened.

The whole sordid prophecy is a repudiation of the Blood of Christ! A pathetic testimony to the evil of Mormonism! You might want to review this denial of Christ's Blood as the Final Sacrifice and Fulfillment of the Law right here - this doctrine of animal sacrifice was an ongoing teaching:

http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2007/12/mormon-prophet-joseph-smith-viewed-pre.html

[Libby]

Mormon temples are "New Testament temples." Where do you get that?

Mormon doctrine, that's where. I didn't say I "believed it".


I knew about the re-ins***ution of animal sacrifices taught by Smith, and I was never a Mormon, Praise God! Why wouldn't you?

Good for you. I'm sure you know all of the "dirt" on Mormonism. I didn't know about this. There were plenty of things I didn't know about and probably still don't. I was never taught this in the church..never.

[Billyray]

I haven't been very interested in "end times" stuff, but thank you for the reference, and maybe I'll look into it one of these days. I'll keep that on my book list.
Over 25% of the Bible is prophecy--a lot has obviously already been fulfilled, but there is a significant amount still to be fulfilled. With such a large percentage of the Bible devoted to prophecy do you think that it is important to study it?

[Libby]

Over 25% of the Bible is prophecy--a lot has obviously already been fulfilled, but there is a significant amount still to be fulfilled. With such a large percentage of the Bible devoted to prophecy do you think that it is important to study it?

Yes, of course.

[Billyray]

Recall that the Jews don't believe that Jesus is their Messiah and from their point of view they are still under the law. In order for them to perform these sacrifices requires a temple for them to do so but their temple can't be built right now because the Dome of the Rock is in the way. But the Bible says that in the latter days they will offer sacrifices so we know that at some point they will rebuild it--when that will happen nobody knows for sure. But the Jews have everything ready to rebuild it at a moments notice. Several years back I was in Jerusalem and went to the Temple Ins***ute which is a stone throw away from the Western Wall--and they discussed how everything is in place for them to rebuild the temple and offer sacrifices again.

Temple Ins***ute
https://www.templeins***ute.org/main.htm

Below is just one of many short Youtube clips that show that the Jews have been preparing--and are prepared to rebuilt their Temple

How is Israel preparing for the temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr9M8jprAcA
Here is an another interesting article--this one is about Jewish women recreating the Temple Veil.


Jewish Women Recreating Temple Veil
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/24644/Default.aspx?hp=article_***le

"For more than two years a small group of women have been attempting to recreate the veil that separated the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem.

"The women of the veil chamber," as they call themselves, have founded a little workshop in the biblical Samarian community of Shiloh that is filled with weaving devices and wool. Their attempt to weave the veil is in accordance with the commandment: "you shall make a veil woven of blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine woven linen. It shall be woven with an artistic design of cherubim" (Ex. 26:31).

Learning how to weave the veil is another way of preparing for the day the Temple will be rebuilt. . ."

[Libby]

Very interesting, Billy.

So, it has to be done exactly as it was done in O.T. times? Wow.


But the task is almost beyond reach. Everything needs to be learned from scratch. The weaving techniques and the special six-cord threads required by the biblical text, the production of the correct blue, purple and scarlet dyes - all of these are lost arts.

The size of the veil itself, a single rag-like object measuring 20 meters high, 10 meters wide and 10 centimeters thick, is a project of immense complexity in and of itself. The making of the veil is therefore going to be a long learning process of trial and error.

One of the more unique challenges is to weave the faces of the cherubim so that it is an eagle face on one side of the veil and a bull's face on the other side. Another is the aforementioned production of the exotic colors needed for the veil. The scarlet is ***umed to be made out of an oak aphid; the blue out of a special sea snail. The purple was also produced from animals, though no one knows for certain what animal.

While the project is beset by seemingly insurmountable obstacles already in its infancy, the women believe they will be able to produce a veil that will p*** the scrutiny of the rabbis.

So, if they do complete this Temple, at some point...do they intend to do animal sacrifices?

[Apologette]

Very interesting, Billy.

So, it has to be done exactly as it was done in O.T. times? Wow.



So, if they do complete this Temple, at some point...do they intend to do animal sacrifices?

Paul does prophesy that the Man of Lawlessness will sit in the Temple of God proclaiming himself to be God; here is an article giving the different views:

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/677-study-of-pauls-man-of-sin-a

Here are the verses: "The Man of Lawlessness

2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[a] 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness[b] is revealed, the son of destruction,[c] 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thess. 2

If the "temple of God," is a literal temple yet to be rebuilt, it would appear that Satan is attempting to impose his rule in this temple through this "man of lawlessness." If, on the other hand, the "temple" is the Body of Christ, as Paul insists elsewhere, it would appear that the Church body has been infiltrated on some level by unbelievers following Satan. Jesus did ask if the Son of Man would find faith on the earth at His return. I suppose that this can be interpreted to support the rapture, or if one is post-trib, it could refer to the great falling away just prior to the Lord's Second Advent (which would be, for me, the logical meaning).

[Billyray]

Very interesting, Billy.

So, it has to be done exactly as it was done in O.T. times? Wow.

So, if they do complete this Temple, at some point...do they intend to do animal sacrifices?
Yes they intend to resume animal sacrifices because they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah--at least yet. From their perspective they are still under the Law.

[Libby]

Yes they intend to resume animal sacrifices because they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah--at least yet. From their perspective they are still under the Law.

So, that act (animal sacrifice) is what they are talking about, when they speak of the redemption of their people, I ***ume?

[Apologette]

So, that act (animal sacrifice) is what they are talking about, when they speak of the redemption of their people, I ***ume?

Pretty terrible is you ask me! Jesus' sacrifice was the END of all animal sacrifices - why shed the blood of innocent animals?

[Libby]

Pretty terrible is you ask me! Jesus' sacrifice was the END of all animal sacrifices - why shed the blood of innocent animals?

Yes, I totally agree. :(