Are Baptists More Easily Seduced by Mormonism?

[Apologette]

According to the stats on this webstie they are:

http://www.bradmelton.org/***ets/Tennessee_Mormon_notes.pdf

I attended a Baptist Church for 15 years (we lived in a remote area at the time, and that was the only church suitable). We recited the Apostles' Creed once in all those years as I recall (it was at the back of the hymnal). We knew how to get saved up and down and sideways. Altar calls given when everybody was supposedly saved. Doctrine kept at a real minimum. Never a sermon on the Trinity that I can recall. Very few warnings about cults - plenty about "seeker friendly churches."

When I was young I came into contact with the Mormons and wrote to the headquarters in SLC for more information. They sent me some literature, including the pamphlet called "What the Mormons Think of Christ." In it it stated that Jesus Christ had "attained" godhood in premortal existence. Now, I was a member of the Episcopal Church, and we recited the Nicene Creed weekly. I instantly knew that the Mormons weren't Christians because they had "another Jesus." He was not "Very God of Very God." I knew to stay away from Mormonism.

So, I wonder how the dearth of doctrinal teaching in many Baptist Churches who pride themselves on their "independence" has worked out for them? You can be so "independent" that you cut yourself off from the historic roots of Christianity and set your people up for those peddling the false doctrines of Joe Smith!

[cheachea]

According to the stats on this webstie they are:

http://www.bradmelton.org/***ets/Tennessee_Mormon_notes.pdf

I attended a Baptist Church for 15 years (we lived in a remote area at the time, and that was the only church suitable). We recited the Apostles' Creed once in all those years as I recall (it was at the back of the hymnal). We knew how to get saved up and down and sideways. Altar calls given when everybody was supposedly saved. Doctrine kept at a real minimum. Never a sermon on the Trinity that I can recall. Very few warnings about cults - plenty about "seeker friendly churches."

When I was young I came into contact with the Mormons and wrote to the headquarters in SLC for more information. They sent me some literature, including the pamphlet called "What the Mormons Think of Christ." In it it stated that Jesus Christ had "attained" godhood in premortal existence. Now, I was a member of the Episcopal Church, and we recited the Nicene Creed weekly. I instantly knew that the Mormons weren't Christians because they had "another Jesus." He was not "Very God of Very God." I knew to stay away from Mormonism.

So, I wonder how the dearth of doctrinal teaching in many Baptist Churches who pride themselves on their "independence" has worked out for them? You can be so "independent" that you cut yourself off from the historic roots of Christianity and set your people up for those peddling the false doctrines of Joe Smith!




This reminds me of my story. I Grew up in a small town that was 75% Mormon, 20% Roman Catholic, 5% First Baptist/Southern Baptist/Methodist.

I grew up in the First Baptist Church. I knew how to be saved and basic Christian Truths, but it seems like we never really got into Church History, Church Doctrines, Theology Etc. I do remember talking about the Trinity and the Divinity of The Lord Jesus Christ a few times. Honestly, I kind of feel cheated a little bit when I think about how unprepared I was for Spiritual battles and the trials of a being a Christian brings.

Learning about the Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox Churches has really helped me in my Christian Walk. I had never even heard of Orthodoxy growing up in the South West. I believe it is Vital that we study Christian History, Christian Doctrines, Christian Apologetics and Theology.

[cheachea]

Honestly, I would say Protestants in general that are not Biblically literate are easily seduced by both JW's and Mormons.

[Apologette]

This reminds me of my story. I Grew up in a small town that was 75% Mormon, 20% Roman Catholic, 5% First Baptist/Southern Baptist/Methodist.

I grew up in the First Baptist Church. I knew how to be saved and basic Christian Truths, but it seems like we never really got into Church History, Church Doctrines, Theology Etc. I do remember talking about the Trinity and the Divinity of The Lord Jesus Christ a few times. Honestly, I kind of feel cheated a little bit when I think about how unprepared I was for Spiritual battles and the trials of a being a Christian brings.

Learning about the Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox Churches has really helped me in my Christian Walk. I had never even heard of Orthodoxy growing up in the South West. I believe it is Vital that we study Christian History, Christian Doctrines, Christian Apologetics and Theology.

Coptic and Orthodox Christians are far more tied into the historical church and are taught essential Christians doctrines such as the Trinity. So did the Episcopal Church (now called the gay church) by many - we had to learn to catechism before confirmation. While many Baptists and evangeicals churches are lax in teaching doctrine - one is certainly not, and that is Calvary Chapels. CCs accentuate doctrine and often have special presentations on the cults.

[Apologette]

Honestly, I would say Protestants in general that are not Biblically literate are easily seduced by both JW's and Mormons.

I'd say you are right.

[cheachea]

One thing that I will give credit to my Baptist upbringing is that Simple Child like Saving faith in The Lord Jesus Christ that really sticks with you especially if you are raised in it as a youngster and go to Christian Summer Camps, Retreats, and Vacation Bible School.

Going to Christian Summer Camp was honestly some of my funnest and fondest memories as a teenager. Seeing kids commit there lives to The Lord and the praise and worship was one of the most intense and beautiful experiences I've ever had in my Christian life.

[Apologette]

One thing that I will give credit to my Baptist upbringing is that Simple Child like Saving faith in The Lord Jesus Christ that really sticks with you especially if you are raised in it as a youngster and go to Christian Summer Camps, Retreats, and Vacation Bible School.

Going to Christian Summer Camp was honestly some of my funnest and fondest memories as a teenager. Seeing kids commit there lives to The Lord and the praise and worship was one of the most intense and beautiful experiences I've ever had in my Christian life.

Yes, something the Episcopal Church never had.

[The Pheonix]

Honestly, I would say Protestants in general that are not Biblically literate are easily seduced by both JW's and Mormons.Sad and insulting...may God forgive your arrogance.

[cheachea]

Sad and insulting...may God forgive your arrogance.



How is my statement arrogant in any way ?

[The Pheonix]

How is my statement arrogant in any way ?
If you don't know, there is even a bigger problem than you ego.

[cheachea]

If you don't know, there is even a bigger problem than you ego.


Can you please just tell me what was arrogant about my statement ? What is arrogant about me saying that if a Protestant doesn't know what the Bible actually says and is not literate in Bible Knowledge and Christian Doctrines that they are easily seduced by JW's and Mormons ? Seriously how is that arrogant ? It's a true statement.

[The Pheonix]

Can you please just tell me what was arrogant about my statement ? What is arrogant about me saying that if a Protestant doesn't know what the Bible actually says and is not literate in Bible Knowledge and Christian Doctrines that they are easily seduced by JW's and Mormons ? Seriously how is that arrogant ? It's a true statement.
Your comment that Protestants are not Biblically literate and easily seduced...arrogant. As if you did not know...oh I left out condescending.

[cheachea]

Your comment that Protestants are not Biblically literate and easily seduced...arrogant. As if you did not know...oh I left out condescending.


NO No I siad IF Protestants are not Biblically Literate Then they are easily seduced by JW's and Mormons. I didn't say that they are biblically illiterate. Do you get what I was saying now ? That's why I was confused to why you thought I was being arrogant.

[Libby]

I was raised in a First Baptist Church, up until I was eleven, and then we moved to California and went to a Temple Baptist Church through most of my teens. I wasn't very involved, though. Mostly just Sundays. My parents made us go, but they did not attend very often, themselves. My dad was usually working on Sundays and my mother worked all week and I think was just too tired. But, she wanted to make sure we received a "Christian education" and upbringing.

I was baptized in the First Baptist Church at age eight. I had answered an altar call and I was very elated about it. So excited when the Pastor gave me a Bible of my very own. I still have it.

What I remember about the teachings of that Pastor was about how Jesus cleansed us of all sin. I remember it so well, because he always used magic tricks. :) He had a vile full of black water, which represented our sins. He, then, put a dropper of something in the vile that made the water clear and clean again. That represented the blood of Jesus cleansing our sins. He was really good with kids. He also taught us about the Trinity with inner stacking dolls (like nesting dolls)...three of them of different sizes all nesting together to make one. He was a good teacher and all the kids loved him. :)

I don't think it is always not knowing the Bible or mainstream Christian thought that makes us vulnerable. I didn't know a lot, but I knew the basics. Sometimes, it's just a rejection of mainstream's interpretation. I have had so many LDS converts tell me that so much of "basic" LDS theology just "made sense". It made sense that the Father also had a body. It made sense that salvation is extended to everyone and can even be extended after death. It made sense and many people LOVE the idea that families can be together forever. Even the levels of heaven and God's long suffering view towards us, reminds them of how a good father should be. Eternal progression....that there is more substance to heaven than just wearing a halo and wings and singing hymns, as heaven is so often portrayed. There is a lot in the LDS religion that is attractive to people, even for some of those who might have an "intellectual" understanding of mainstream theology.

[alanmolstad]

Can you please just tell me what was arrogant about my statement ? ......
There was nothing arrogant, nor even slightly wrong about your statement, that many in the Christian church simply have not opened their Bible enough to know what it says within.

The CULTS feed on the over-supply of Scripture ignorance found in the Christian church memberships.

Oh and this problem cuts across all denominations.

It has a lot to do not so much with the different church leaderships, or the guys up front , but rather the problem stems from a lack of concerned parents teaching children.
It comes from a national trend, if not a world-wide trend for parents to simply not be all that interested anymore in teaching about the Bible to their kids.

You can see this when you look at the number of Bibles given as gifts to kids.
Used to be the common gift,,,,,,now?....its rare.

[Libby]

Yes...my two oldest grandchildren were baptized into a Christian Church and neither of them received a Bible. I went out and bought them both a nice Bible.

[The Pheonix]

NO No I siad IF Protestants are not Biblically Literate Then they are easily seduced by JW's and Mormons. I didn't say that they are biblically illiterate. Do you get what I was saying now ? That's why I was confused to why you thought I was being arrogant.OK why do you have to qualify it...I started at age 11 taking Bible lessons by mail and preached in the Baptist Church...growing up with a Baptist Minister father. Why ***ume that the ones who convert to Mormonism are uneducated about the Bible?

[The Pheonix]

Yes...my two oldest grandchildren were baptized into a Christian Church and neither of them received a Bible. I went out and bought them both a nice Bible.When I was "saved", I got one on December 21, 1972.

[Libby]

When I was "saved", I got one on December 21, 1972.

In the First Baptist Church, you mean?

Everyone should have a Bible. :)

When I was young, there was only the KJV (for Protestants). I love all of the new editions, now available. I prefer the NIV, but I also have an ESV Reformation Study Bible. I don't really care for it, because it has no maps! I couldn't believe it.

[The Pheonix]

In the First Baptist Church, you mean?

Everyone should have a Bible. :)

When I was young, there was only the KJV (for Protestants). I love all of the new editions, now available. I prefer the NIV, but I also have an ESV Reformation Study Bible. I don't really care for it, because it has no maps! I couldn't believe it.
Yes...in Baptist Church.

[Apologette]

I was raised in a First Baptist Church, up until I was eleven, and then we moved to California and went to a Temple Baptist Church through most of my teens. I wasn't very involved, though. Mostly just Sundays. My parents made us go, but they did not attend very often, themselves. My dad was usually working on Sundays and my mother worked all week and I think was just too tired. But, she wanted to make sure we received a "Christian education" and upbringing.

I was baptized in the First Baptist Church at age eight. I had answered an altar call and I was very elated about it. So excited when the Pastor gave me a Bible of my very own. I still have it.

What I remember about the teachings of that Pastor was about how Jesus cleansed us of all sin. I remember it so well, because he always used magic tricks. :) He had a vile full of black water, which represented our sins. He, then, put a dropper of something in the vile that made the water clear and clean again. That represented the blood of Jesus cleansing our sins. He was really good with kids. He also taught us about the Trinity with inner stacking dolls (like nesting dolls)...three of them of different sizes all nesting together to make one. He was a good teacher and all the kids loved him. :)

I don't think it is always not knowing the Bible or mainstream Christian thought that makes us vulnerable. I didn't know a lot, but I knew the basics. Sometimes, it's just a rejection of mainstream's interpretation. I have had so many LDS converts tell me that so much of "basic" LDS theology just "made sense". It made sense that the Father also had a body. It made sense that salvation is extended to everyone and can even be extended after death. It made sense and many people LOVE the idea that families can be together forever. Even the levels of heaven and God's long suffering view towards us, reminds them of how a good father should be. Eternal progression....that there is more substance to heaven than just wearing a halo and wings and singing hymns, as heaven is so often portrayed. There is a lot in the LDS religion that is attractive to people, even for some of those who might have an "intellectual" understanding of mainstream theology.

So, while you were in this Baptist Church did you ever learn standard Christian doctrine? The Trinity? The Deity of Christ? stuff like that?

[Apologette]

NO No I siad IF Protestants are not Biblically Literate Then they are easily seduced by JW's and Mormons. I didn't say that they are biblically illiterate. Do you get what I was saying now ? That's why I was confused to why you thought I was being arrogant.

You are right - and sadly, we can see the results all around us. Faithful Catholics and E.O.s, are really far more knowledgeable about traditional orthodox doctrine than Protestants who sometimes pride themselves on not saying creeds! Well, we can see the result! At least young Catholic kids learn the catechism (as do Anglicans), and can pretty much detect there is something wrong with a teaching that denies Christ is God.

[Apologette]

This reminds me of my story. I Grew up in a small town that was 75% Mormon, 20% Roman Catholic, 5% First Baptist/Southern Baptist/Methodist.

I grew up in the First Baptist Church. I knew how to be saved and basic Christian Truths, but it seems like we never really got into Church History, Church Doctrines, Theology Etc. I do remember talking about the Trinity and the Divinity of The Lord Jesus Christ a few times. Honestly, I kind of feel cheated a little bit when I think about how unprepared I was for Spiritual battles and the trials of a being a Christian brings.

Learning about the Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox Churches has really helped me in my Christian Walk. I had never even heard of Orthodoxy growing up in the South West. I believe it is Vital that we study Christian History, Christian Doctrines, Christian Apologetics and Theology.

I think you've hit on one of the central problems with Protestantism........in many cases, it has cut itself off from its roots and proudly proclaims its "independence." But in so doing, they have lost their footing. I remember growing up in the Episcopal Church I always felt I had roots that reached back to the first century Church. That is something that just doesn't seem to happen in many Protestant groups. It's as if Christianity just sprang up in the 19th century - and that's one reason somebody as evil as Joseph Smith was able to seduce so many. I don't think a lot of Romans or Anglicans or Orthodox were seduced by Smith's claims; most of the early Mormons were Campbellites, or Baptists or Methodists, as far as I can tell. Smith, himself, wanted to join the Methodist Church but refused to repent of his occultic ties.

[Libby]

So, while you were in this Baptist Church did you ever learn standard Christian doctrine? The Trinity? The Deity of Christ? stuff like that?

The basics, yes.

At age 17 I left the Baptist Church and started attending our local Catholic Church. I had a lot of Catholic friends. I took catechism cl***es and was baptized into the church. My "seeking" started very young.

[cheachea]

OK why do you have to qualify it...I started at age 11 taking Bible lessons by mail and preached in the Baptist Church...growing up with a Baptist Minister father. Why ***ume that the ones who convert to Mormonism are uneducated about the Bible?


Because they would know that the Mormon Concept of WHO The Lord Jesus Christ is and Who He is in Historical Christianity are different. Also Mormon Doctrines are completely different from Historical Christianity's doctrines.

Mormons are nice people, but The Theology is completely different from Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christianity.

[Apologette]

The basics, yes.

At age 17 I left the Baptist Church and started attending our local Catholic Church. I had a lot of Catholic friends. I took catechism cl***es and was baptized into the church. My "seeking" started very young.

Okay, so I just saw this post. Catholic catechism cl***es can be daunting, but they generally cover all the essentials of the traditional body of faith. Boy, Libby, nobody can say that you haven't been searching!

[Apologette]

Because they would know that the Mormon Concept of WHO The Lord Jesus Christ is and Who He is in Historical Christianity are different. Also Mormon Doctrines are completely different from Historical Christianity's doctrines.

Mormons are nice people, but The Theology is completely different from Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christianity.
Exactly. The easiest way to determine if a group is or is not cultic is to see what they do with Jesus. Is He fully God and fully Man? Is He the Second Person of the Trinity? These are basic doctrines that the Mormons fail to teach.

[Libby]

LDS do teach that Jesus is fully God and fully man, but they teach that he is a separate God and One only in "purpose" (not in essence) with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

[Apologette]

LDS do teach that Jesus is fully God and fully man, but they teach that he is a separate God and One only in "purpose" (not in essence) with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

Actually, Libby, Mormons totally reject the hypostatic union. They teach that Jesus was born as an ordinary spirit baby, "attained godhood" in some way prior to mortal existence, and then was born as a human on planet earth. He is not fully God and fully man in on Person as Christians teach. Here is a little study:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_union

As you know, Mormons teach that Jesus is a "god" separate from the Father; Christians believe there is only One God, Who is a Triune center of Being. The Word of God took the additional nature of flesh, and became God and Man in the Person of Christ. Mormons reject this.

[Libby]

Actually, Libby, Mormons totally reject the hypostatic union. They teach that Jesus was born as an ordinary spirit baby, "attained godhood" in some way prior to mortal existence, and then was born as a human on planet earth. He is not fully God and fully man in on Person as Christians teach. Here is a little study:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_union

As you know, Mormons teach that Jesus is a "god" separate from the Father; Christians believe there is only One God, Who is a Triune center of Being. The Word of God took the additional nature of flesh, and became God and Man in the Person of Christ. Mormons reject this.

Yes, they don't call it the Hypostatic Union, but they do recognize that Jesus was both God (a god) and human, at the same time. Of course, they believe all "gods" are "human", as well as divine.

And, no, they do not believe in a Truine God.

[Apologette]

Yes, they don't call it the Hypostatic Union, but they do recognize that Jesus was both God (a god) and human, at the same time. Of course, they believe all "gods" are "human", as well as divine.

And, no, they do not believe in a Truine God.
No, they do not teach that Jesus was BOTH God and Man while on earth. On earth he was simply a man - and that is why they deny the hypostatic union. I have been round and round with Mormons on this issue. Jesus birth on earth was the same as any other birth of a spirit on earth. Ask them. If you think they believe in the dual nature of Christ while on earth present a reference.

If Christ was not BOTH God and Man while one earth, His Atonement on the Cross was not Infinite, and we are lost in our sins.

Here is a good teaching on the subject: http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm026_3.htm

Mormons are essentially Arians - believing Jesus is a "created" being as are all of "heavenly father's" spirit children. This is a complete rejection of the Eternal Deity of Christ, and the central reason Christians must reject Mormonism along with other Arian cults as non-Christian. Jesus said, "unless you believe that I AM" you shall die in your sins.........and that is the result of rejecting the Eternal Deity of Christ. Futhermore, since Mormons evily teach that both gods and men are the "same species," there is no question that they reject the unique Full Deity of Christ - that He was God from eternity past, and that God's Nature is not the nature of men.

[Libby]

I realize they do not see Jesus as most Christians, but they do still hold the believe that he was both man and "a god".

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ

"From His mother, Mary, Jesus inherited mortality, the capacity to feel the frustrations and ills of this world, including the capacity to die. We believe that Jesus was fully human in that He was subject to sickness, to pain and to temptation."

"We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death."

[Phoenix]

I realize they do not see Jesus as most Christians, but they do still hold the believe that he was both man and "a god".

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ

"From His mother, Mary, Jesus inherited mortality, the capacity to feel the frustrations and ills of this world, including the capacity to die. We believe that Jesus was fully human in that He was subject to sickness, to pain and to temptation."

"We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death."
Thanks for that post. Good ***.

[Gary_Biblelover]

Honestly, I would say Protestants in general that are not Biblically literate are easily seduced by both JW's and Mormons.

I couldn't agree more. Biblical ignorance is the main reason protestants become LDS. acck btw hi I am Gary I am new but jumped right in hope you don't mind :)

[Libby]

Thanks for that post. Good ***.

You're welcome. :)

[Libby]

Hi Gary. Welcome! We could certainly use more people over here! :)

I think I have seen you posting over on CARM?

[Apologette]

Hi Gary. Welcome! We could certainly use more people over here! :)

I think I have seen you posting over on CARM?
Yes he has been posting on CARM and is a welcomed addition.

[Gary_Biblelover]

Hi Gary. Welcome! We could certainly use more people over here! :)

I think I have seen you posting over on CARM?

HI Libby yes I have been on CARM. Glad to be here. Thanks

[Gary_Biblelover]

You're welcome. :)

totally agree with Phoenix nice post!!

[Libby]

Thanks.

Of course, what LDS mean, when they say Jesus Christ is also "god" is not the same as what Christians mean, when they say that (as we all know). That's part of the problem of discussing Mormonism vs mainstream Christianity. We all use the same words, but have different definitions for many of them.