Mormons can't find ONE THING smith 'restored.' [Archive]

Christian

03-11-2015, 01:05 PM

Nature of God

Nope, joey smith INVENTED HIS OWN. A 'jesus' that is supposedly a spirit-brother of his 'jesus.' Multiple gods.

CHRIST and all of the prophets before Him taught there is only ONE REAL GOD ANYWHERE; He doesn't even KNOW of any others!

Isa 43:10-11
10 "You are My witnesses," says the Lord,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.
NKJV

Isa 44:6
6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
NKJV

Isa 44:7-8
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

conman false prophet joey smith taught that HE believed in the existance of MANY gods:
See pgp, abraham chapters 3 & 4

Joey made up his own. We CHRISTIANS have always served the ONLY TRUE GOD.

Christian

03-11-2015, 01:08 PM

Living apostles.

According to joey smith's made-up version your religion relies upon MORTAL living apostles.

Christ's church does not.

Jesus is the head of our CHRISTIAN church, HIS apostles are alive and well. . .in heaven.

JESUS NEVER REQUIRED that joey smith's made-up 'apostles' EVER be in HIS church.

Once again, NONE OF joey smith's 'mormon-specific' horse-apples existed in Jesus' church.

Christian

03-11-2015, 01:11 PM

The Spirit World - Spirit Prizon/Paradise

The existance of a spirit world, spirit prison, and paradise are BIBLICAL (not mormon-specific at all) truths.

The existance of joey smith's version of them however, was not taught or believed by ANY first century CHRISTIAN writer.

Sorry, but STILL NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored. NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Christian

03-11-2015, 01:15 PM

Open Canon

Not a mormon-specific teaching. Many cults believe what you believe, have their own 'prophets' or 'prophetesses' and their own additional writings.

AT LEAST 150+ DIFFERENT break-offs of joey smith's religions have them.
Jehovah witnesses have them.
Seventh day adventists have Ellen G White and her writings

Nothing 'new' about joey smith believing the Bible isn't all.

Of course the BIBLE says otherwise.

The BIBLE says the faith was delivered 'once for all' in Jude 3.

Not being added to by the winds of changing 'prophets' or 'prophetesses.'

Christian

03-11-2015, 01:19 PM

Baptism for the dead

NOT ONE SINGLE CHRISTIAN is ever written about EVER being baptized for the dead. Joey smith's made-up theory is all his own.

And STILL
NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.

NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Christian

03-11-2015, 01:21 PM

Man's preexistance

Joey smith made up his own little fairytale about that. JESUS did pre-exist from before the worlds began. WE did not.

No CHRISTIAN in the first century is ever said to have believed joey's version.

AND STILL
NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.

NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Joey the adulterer, conman, peepstone gazer who tried to shoot his way out of jail is likely in a very HOT PLACE right now, where his worm will never die. :(

theway

03-11-2015, 05:22 PM

NOT ONE CHRISTIAN WRITING ANYWHERE from the first century teaches the 'mormon-specific' teaching of joey smith's, that you may go to any of 'three degrees of' anything at all. Joey smith made that all up.

You have nothing from GOD that says otherwise. ALL you have is the word of your peepstone gazer, thief, adulterer, conman who tried to shoot his way out of jail, false 'prophet.'LOL...
Now you are moving the goalposts because your original challenge has been debunked.
You only stated that I needed to show only "ONE THING" that was restored.... I did that! Now you are claiming it has to be something from a First Century Christian...
It appears you never learn your lesson.

Very well then, here it is from First Century Christians...

1 Cor. 15:40-42
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

John14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

theway

03-11-2015, 05:46 PM

The existance of a spirit world, spirit prison, and paradise are BIBLICAL (not mormon-specific at all) truths.There you go moving the goal posts again.
I'd like to thank you for finally admitting that the existence of a spirit world with a division where the evil go to spirit Prison and the good go to paradise. But you only said you wanted a "uniquely Mormon belief"... And as far as I know, not one modern Christian Church believes in an intermediate spirit world.
You lose again

The existance of joey smith's version of them however, was not taught or believed by ANY first century CHRISTIAN writer.Sure it was... by none other than Jesus!

Luke 16:22-26
22And it came to p***, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would p*** from hence to you cannot; neither can they p*** to us, that would come from thence.

Sorry, but STILL [COLOR=#0000ff]NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored. NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.
So far I have proven two... Even with you moving the goalposts around.
But I know the futility of trying to educate you. Therefore I write only to the Lurkers.
For as *** continues on to say, even if someone rose from the grave beyond and told what it was like, you would be too stubborn and prideful to believe them.

Erundur

03-11-2015, 06:52 PM

According to joey smith's made-up version your religion relies upon MORTAL living apostles.
Um no, according to reality our church has mortal living apostles.

Just like Christ's original church.

Christian

03-18-2015, 04:42 PM

Um no, according to reality our church has mortal living apostles.

Just like Christ's original church.

So do the 150 OTHER smithite churches including the REAL one, the one Joseph Smith III became president of, just like God told his daddy, your 'prophet' he would.

And of course, ALL of the MANMADE 'apostles' are fakes anyway. The original church, the one JESUS CHRIST BUILT made no provisions for 'p***ing down' any the Apostleships of CHRIST'S apostles.

Your cult has lied to you, erunder.

Oh, and you forgot to mention that IF Christ's Apostles had to remain PHYSICALLY HERE, then JESUS HIMSELF had to be PHYSICALLY HERE TOO. But of course you can't come up with a fake 'jesus' except for your imaginary 'spirit-brother-of-satan' one, can you?

Erundur

03-18-2015, 07:09 PM

So do the 150 OTHER smithite churches including the REAL one, the one Joseph Smith III became president of, just like God told his daddy, your 'prophet' he would.
All of them? I didn't know that, but okay.

And of course, ALL of the MANMADE 'apostles' are fakes anyway.
Yes, but the real ones chosen by Jesus are not.

The original church, the one JESUS CHRIST BUILT made no provisions for 'p***ing down' any the Apostleships of CHRIST'S apostles.
Of course it did.

Your cult has lied to you, erunder.
Prove it.

Oh, and you forgot to mention that IF Christ's Apostles had to remain PHYSICALLY HERE, then JESUS HIMSELF had to be PHYSICALLY HERE TOO.
That's true, because it's a made-up anti-Mormon rule. I see no indication in the New Testament that the apostles became illegitimate as soon as Jesus ascended.

But of course you can't come up with a fake 'jesus' except for your imaginary 'spirit-brother-of-satan' one, can you?
No, I can't come up with a fake Jesus. That's why I follow the real one.

Christian

03-19-2015, 07:24 AM

tw posted:
There you go moving the goal posts again.

Not an inch.

Originally Posted by ChristianThe existance of a spirit world, spirit prison, and paradise are BIBLICAL (not mormon-specific at all) truths.

I'd like to thank you for finally admitting that the existence of a spirit world with a division where the evil go to spirit Prison and the good go to paradise. But you only said you wanted a "uniquely Mormon belief"... And as far as I know, not one modern Christian Church believes in an intermediate spirit world.
You lose again

Sorry tw, but I have said NOTHING about 'accepting' any such REDEFINITION of the spirit world as joey smith invented. No 'daddy god having sex with goddesses and popping out millions of 'spirit babies' at all. ALL of that mormo specific garbage was invented by joey smith & company.

What do you think I have lost? The FACT that I believe the BIBLE when it talks about demons, angels, and heaven and Hell (not just a spirit prison, but a place of eternal torment) is not a loss at all.

Originally Posted by ChristianThe existance of joey smith's version of them however, was not taught or believed by ANY first century CHRISTIAN writer.

Sure it was... by none other than Jesus!

Luke 16:22-26
22And it came to p***, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom (in other words HEAVEN): the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell (The place of eternal torment, where his worm will never die) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would p*** from hence to you cannot; neither can they p*** to us, that would come from thence.

Yep, there IS a great gulf between heaven and Hell. No "three glory heaven" of course (joey smith's redefinition of heaven), and hell is NOT just a place where only sons of perdition go (more of joey smith's dung).

No mormon god having sex with mormon goddesses and popping out zillions of 'spirit babies' (more of joey's perverse invention) or his having jesus and satan as 'spirit sons' anywhere. More of joey's dung. . .

Sorry, but STILL NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored. NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

So far I have proven two... Even with you moving the goalposts around.

None yet. Not ONE bit of 'proof' that your god and goddesses are popping out zillions of 'spirit children' OR that there are any such '3 heavens.' ALL of that dung came from joey smith's INVENTIONS.

But I know the futility of trying to educate you.

"Educate" me how? By telling me more of joey smith's fairytales? By trying to twist what I say into something I do not say? Yes, your attempts ARE FUTILE indeed.

Therefore I write only to the Lurkers.

I do too. That is why I keep pointing out the contradictions and lies that come from your religion and from your false prophet, so that the lurkers may see for themselves that joey smith and his manmade religion are not from God.

Not a difficult task at all.

For as *** continues on to say, even if someone rose from the grave beyond and told what it was like, you would be too stubborn and prideful to believe them.

You may 'say' anything you wish. That does not make what you 'say' any less of a lie. I believe EVERY WORD JESUS EVER SAID. It is joey smith's imaginary jesus I don't believe. . .you know. . .his 'spirit-brother-of-satan-'jesus?'

The Bible tells us:

Matt 24:24-25
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
NKJV
joey smith and his false christ fit that description perfectly. I will keep exposing joey's foibles to the lurkers so they can see that.

Christian

03-19-2015, 07:45 AM

E posted:

Originally Posted by Christian
So do the 150 OTHER smithite churches including the REAL one, the one Joseph Smith III became president of, just like God told his daddy, your 'prophet' he would.

All of them? I didn't know that, but okay.

And of course, ALL of the MANMADE 'apostles' are fakes anyway.

Yes, but the real ones chosen by Jesus are not.

Why should we believe YOURS and not THEIRS were chosen by Jesus? That's not what each of THEM believe?
Where did JESUS EVER SAY He chose yours?

The original church, the one JESUS CHRIST BUILT made no provisions for 'p***ing down' any the Apostleships of CHRIST'S apostles.

Of course it did.

Then why can't you find CHAPTER AND VERSE where GOD ever said so? So far all we have is YOUR own word and the word of the false prophet, liar, conman joey smith. Not much reason to believe your claim.

Your cult has lied to you, erunder.

Prove it.

I have, many times. You won't be convinced though. You are blind.

Oh, and you forgot to mention that IF Christ's Apostles had to remain PHYSICALLY HERE, then JESUS HIMSELF had to be PHYSICALLY HERE TOO.

That's true, because it's a made-up anti-Mormon rule. I see no indication in the New Testament that the apostles became illegitimate as soon as Jesus ascended.

Your religion bases its manmade theory that Christ's church must always have 'mortal living apostles' on the following p***age:

Eph 2:20-21
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
NKJV

Since Jesus Christ is part of the SAME SENTENCE and SAME SUBJECT, then you MUST (according to your own misinterpretation of this p***age) have a LIVE AND PHYSICALLY MORTAL 'jesus' hiding in your cellar somewhere. But of course you cannot come up with one.

The TRUTH is that Jesus never once said that the church required physical Apostles in every generation at all. That was manure invented by joey smith, the false prophet.

But of course you can't come up with a fake 'jesus' except for your imaginary 'spirit-brother-of-satan' one, can you?

No, I can't come up with a fake Jesus. That's why I follow the real one.

So now you agree with me by claiming that you don't follow smith's 'spirit-brother-of-satan' 'jesus.'

A little wishy-washy aren't you?

Christian

03-19-2015, 08:40 AM

LOL...
Now you are moving the goalposts because your original challenge has been debunked.
You only stated that I needed to show only "ONE THING" that was restored.... I did that! Now you are claiming it has to be something from a First Century Christian...
It appears you never learn your lesson.

Very well then, here it is from First Century Christians...

1 Cor. 15:40-42
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

John14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

That is like

Judas went and hanged himself
go thou and do likewise
go quickly, do not tarry!

You can try to connect Bible verses together randomly to 'get them to say' anything you want.

NOT ONE SINGLE WORD in 1 Corinthians about 3 heavens where PEOPLE ever go. One star differs from another in 'wunder' (german) or 'beauty' (English). The word "glory' does NOT appear in the original-language Greek texts btw.

NONE of joey smith's trash about 'forever families' living 'together' in 3 different 'glories' and Hell, btw. Sorry, but joey's junk contradicts joey's junk all over the place!

NOT ONE BIT of joey's 'mormo-specific' dung was ever believed by the first century Christians.

No need to 'move any goalposts' at all. NONE of my original challenge (that mormons can't find ONE THING that is mormo-specific that was ever believed by ANY FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS AT ALL)

Joey made his 'new religion' up all by himself (or with the help of satan. . .)

Phoenix

03-19-2015, 01:21 PM

NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.
NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.
NOT ONE.
Comments?

Yes, I have a comment: It seems like you have plagiarized a rant that an antiMormon dude at carm has been spamming the antimormon forum with. Here is an example of the striking similarities between your rant and "morefish's" rant:

STILL no complete apostasy of Jesus' church

No lost scriptures
No lost authority to preach/teach/speak for/act for God
NOTHING of essential value lost from THE ORIGINAL church that Jesus built, the one that has lasted just fine for about 2,000 years now.

And no need for joey smith to 'restore' anything at all. (Of course he never really 'restored' anything at all, he just MADE UP a bunch of junk).

Comments?

That is all I want to comment on at this time. Thanks for asking.

alanmolstad

03-19-2015, 01:40 PM

eh?

I am just reading the two posts Phoenix, and Im not really seeing anything I would try to paint as "plagiarized"

What are you looking at that would be?

Its kinda slightly like, in that both make use of the term " joey smith"....and ending with the word "Comments? "

However the use of "Joey Smith" is something I also have been known to do...and I also have ended a post with the invitation like "any Questions?"...or "Any Comments?" and while I dont claim to be the first person to ever use these words, I dont think that makes me guilty of having "plagiarized".

The truth is, that when you read some posts on the forums you do tend to remember a few of them that strike a cord, or are so clever in this case, as to be worth remembering in the future...

I actually think its a complement when and if I see someone else using a phrase that I have posted....

theway

03-19-2015, 02:11 PM

tw posted:
There you go moving the goal posts again.

Not an inch.

I'd like to thank you for finally admitting that the existence of a spirit world with a division where the evil go to spirit Prison and the good go to paradise. But you only said you wanted a "uniquely Mormon belief"... And as far as I know, not one modern Christian Church believes in an intermediate spirit world.
You lose again

Sorry tw, but I have said NOTHING about 'accepting' any such REDEFINITION of the spirit world as joey smith invented. No 'daddy god having sex with goddesses and popping out millions of 'spirit babies' at all. ALL of that mormo specific garbage was invented by joey smith & company.

What do you think I have lost? The FACT that I believe the BIBLE when it talks about demons, angels, and heaven and Hell (not just a spirit prison, but a place of eternal torment) is not a loss at all.

Sure it was... by none other than Jesus!

Luke 16:22-26
22And it came to p***, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom (in other words HEAVEN): the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell (The place of eternal torment, where his worm will never die) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would p*** from hence to you cannot; neither can they p*** to us, that would come from thence.

Yep, there IS a great gulf between heaven and Hell. No "three glory heaven" of course (joey smith's redefinition of heaven), and hell is NOT just a place where only sons of perdition go (more of joey smith's dung).

No mormon god having sex with mormon goddesses and popping out zillions of 'spirit babies' (more of joey's perverse invention) or his having jesus and satan as 'spirit sons' anywhere. More of joey's dung. . .

So far I have proven two... Even with you moving the goalposts around.

None yet. Not ONE bit of 'proof' that your god and goddesses are popping out zillions of 'spirit children' OR that there are any such '3 heavens.' ALL of that dung came from joey smith's INVENTIONS.

But I know the futility of trying to educate you.

"Educate" me how? By telling me more of joey smith's fairytales? By trying to twist what I say into something I do not say? Yes, your attempts ARE FUTILE indeed.

Therefore I write only to the Lurkers.

I do too. That is why I keep pointing out the contradictions and lies that come from your religion and from your false prophet, so that the lurkers may see for themselves that joey smith and his manmade religion are not from God.

Not a difficult task at all.

For as *** continues on to say, even if someone rose from the grave beyond and told what it was like, you would be too stubborn and prideful to believe them.

You may 'say' anything you wish. That does not make what you 'say' any less of a lie. I believe EVERY WORD JESUS EVER SAID. It is joey smith's imaginary jesus I don't believe. . .you know. . .his 'spirit-brother-of-satan-'jesus?'

The Bible tells us:

Matt 24:24-25
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
NKJV
joey smith and his false christ fit that description perfectly. I will keep exposing joey's foibles to the lurkers so they can see that.I invite all who wish to know the truth to look up the words Abraham's Bosom and Hades (Hades was translated Hell in this verse) in a good bible dictionary or commentary (do not use an Evangelical one they are biased)

Phoenix

03-19-2015, 02:27 PM

alanmolstad

03-19-2015, 02:53 PM

I dont know what you are referring to about the Book of Mormon, but I do know that you cant say that the post in question was "plagiarism" because it's not....so you have failed to win that argument with me.

How much does the post have to be like another post before I should say, "That's clear plagiarism !"?

To me, personally I would have to see where a post went on and on, copying word for word of another work before I would say the thing was plagiarism.

Now regardless of what we are talking about,(The post in question or the Book of Mormon) if you can point to something that is clearly word for word taken out of something else?...then that would be correctly called "plagiarism"

I think there has been enough case law on the books to know how to define the term as used in a court of law....

Phoenix

03-19-2015, 04:49 PM

I dont know what you are referring to about the Book of Mormon,
Then I guess there is a lot you haven't yet learned about the field of antimormonism. Accusations that "joe smith" plagiarized verses from the Bible, or from other books such as shakespeare, have been hurled for well over 100 years I think, but especially in the past couple of decades.

but I do know that you cant say that the post in question was "plagiarism" because it's not..
But I can say it seems like plagiarism. Can't I? Because that is what I actually said. I didn't say the post in question was plagiarism. I am pretty sure I can say that.

so you have failed to win that argument with me.
Since I never made that argument, I guess you are right. It is indeed hard to win an argument that a person didn't ever make.

How much does the post have to be like another post before I should say, "That's clear plagiarism !"?

One site I consulted says this:

"Yale views plagiarism as the "... use of another's work, words, or ideas without attribution," which includes "... using a source's language without quoting, using information from a source without attribution, and paraphrasing a source in a form that stays too close to the original."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

To me, personally I would have to see where a post went on and on, copying word for word of another work before I would say the thing was plagiarism.
But to another person personally, they wouldn't have to do that. I wasn't trying to convince you personally of anything anyway, at least until you ****ed into the conversation. My response was to the poster called "Christian." It was he who asked for comments, so I obliged him and made one.

theway

03-19-2015, 06:48 PM

Like I said, comments were requested, and my comment was that there is a striking similarity.

Some people say that similarities between book of mormon verses and Bible verses are proof of plagiarism.

Comments on THAT?It was not plagiarized, because it is the same person. This is why I said in my other post that he never learns. He spams the other forums with this same argument, and I give him the same answers every time.

Phoenix

03-19-2015, 07:40 PM

It was not plagiarized, because it is the same person. This is why I said in my other post that he never learns. He spams the other forums with this same argument, and I give him the same answers every time.

Ah, thank you for that info. And you are of course correct--it wouldn't be plagiarism if you post your own rantings in multiple paces.

alanmolstad

03-19-2015, 10:07 PM

If a post is word for word.....or if there is a clear sign that a text was copied with small changes that clearly were added...then we might have a legal case against the author...

I have not actually looked into the matter of the book of Mormon being a plagiarism of some other book, but I will do a GOOGLE search and see if Walter martin has any position on the topic....

Erundur

03-19-2015, 11:37 PM

Why should we believe YOURS and not THEIRS were chosen by Jesus?
I don't care what you believe. However, even if one of the splinter groups had the real apostles, that still precludes your cult from being Christ's church.

Then why can't you find CHAPTER AND VERSE where GOD ever said so?
You ***ume that I can't. Apostles were chosen after the original 12. You should really read the New Testament sometime.

I have, many times.
Yeah, that's what I thought. You're all talk, no substance.

Since Jesus Christ is part of the SAME SENTENCE and SAME SUBJECT, then you MUST (according to your own misinterpretation of this p***age) have a LIVE AND PHYSICALLY MORTAL 'jesus' hiding in your cellar somewhere.
False.

Christian

03-22-2015, 09:32 PM

erunder posted:
I don't care what you believe. However, even if one of the splinter groups had the real apostles, that still precludes your cult from being Christ's church.

The TRUTH is that Jesus didn't set HIS church up to be led by physically alive Apostles every century. Joey smith lied to you.

Then why can't you find CHAPTER AND VERSE where GOD ever said so?

You ***ume that I can't. Apostles were chosen after the original 12. You should really read the New Testament sometime.

IF YOU COULD, you would have, long ago. But NOT ONE WORD IN SCRIPTURE says that physically alive Apostles must be in the leadership of the church in every century.

Of course Judas was replaced and Paul was called by Jesus.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're all talk, no substance.

Just more blah blah blah from you I see. I have made a case you cannot disprove. You know it so you have no substance to refute it with.

Since Jesus Christ is part of the SAME SENTENCE and SAME SUBJECT, then you MUST (according to your own misinterpretation of this p***age) have a LIVE AND PHYSICALLY MORTAL 'jesus' hiding in your cellar somewhere.

False.

You HAVE to (without any SUBSTANCE) CLAIM that you don't need to abide by the WHOLE SENTENCE because YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T SUPPORT there being a physically alive JESUS CHRIST existing in your church along with your physically alive 'apostles.' YOU HAVE to relegate the "Jesus part' of the sentence to somewhere else since you cannot support WHAT IT SAYS.

You are all talk and no substance, certainly! That and some hot air. . . :rolleyes:

Christian

03-22-2015, 09:39 PM

I invite all who wish to know the truth to look up the words Abraham's Bosom and Hades (Hades was translated Hell in this verse) in a good bible dictionary or commentary (do not use an Evangelical one they are biased)

Of course, you want us to use an 'unbiased' MORMO dictionary! Sorry, but REAL linguists translate from REAL TEXTS. They don't stare at rocks in their hat (like joey smith did when he supposedly 'translated' the bom) or use fake funeral papyrus to make up stories around (such as the pgp 'book of abraham' that has been so solidly debunked as fraudulant).

Sorry way, but your desire not to use CHRISTIAN dictionaries because they are 'biased' shows who YOU serve. . .and it isn't Jesus Christ.

Erundur

03-23-2015, 12:32 AM

Jesus didn't set HIS church up to be led by physically alive Apostles every century.
Of course he did.

IF YOU COULD, you would have, long ago.
Hardly. The thread isn't that old. Besides, the New Testatment writers took care of it long ago.

Of course Judas was replaced and Paul was called by Jesus.[/COLOR]

You HAVE to (without any SUBSTANCE) CLAIM that you don't need to abide by the WHOLE SENTENCE because YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T SUPPORT there being a physically alive JESUS CHRIST existing in your church along with your physically alive 'apostles.' YOU HAVE to relegate the "Jesus part' of the sentence to somewhere else since you cannot support WHAT IT SAYS.
And yet I don't. Hmm...

dberrie2000

03-23-2015, 06:00 AM

[COLOR=#0000FF]Of course, you want us to use an 'unbiased' MORMO dictionary! Sorry, but REAL linguists translate from REAL TEXTS. They don't stare at rocks ...

The ancient Israelites used stones to receive revelation. Ever heard of the Urim and Thummim?

alanmolstad

03-26-2015, 04:59 AM

I dont know what you are referring to about the Book of Mormon, .
I have been looking at a few things as of late as I went over my posts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrU1ut0hmXc

From the new information Im starting to get a better understanding of the foundation of Mormonism....

alanmolstad

03-27-2015, 04:30 AM

theway

03-27-2015, 04:50 PM

the Walter Martin forum seems to be cooking right along now....and so I don't tend to post much when I see there is no real need for me , nor a topic that really is on interest to me.
However I bet the fact the this forum is still going with new posts every day must tick-off that one CARM Mormon who showed up here after he was banned and tried to get away with breaking the rules here too by saying that without his posts this place would die...<Translation>
I've been embarr***ed so many times whenever the Mormon Posters come back here that I will now hide myself in the fetal position somewhere where I can not be questioned.

Also, that Poster you are talking about is me. However you will not say who it is because you claimed to put me on your ignore list and you are pretending that you are unable to see my posts......... Busted!

Christian

04-04-2015, 04:30 PM

Yes, I have a comment: It seems like you have plagiarized a rant that an antiMormon dude at carm has been spamming the antimormon forum with. Here is an example of the striking similarities between your rant and "morefish's" rant:

STILL no complete apostasy of Jesus' church

No lost scriptures
No lost authority to preach/teach/speak for/act for God
NOTHING of essential value lost from THE ORIGINAL church that Jesus built, the one that has lasted just fine for about 2,000 years now.

And no need for joey smith to 'restore' anything at all. (Of course he never really 'restored' anything at all, he just MADE UP a bunch of junk).

Comments?

That is all I want to comment on at this time. Thanks for asking.

I don't need to 'plagarize' anything. The TRUTH is

NO complete apostasy of Jesus' church
NO lost scriptures
NO lost authority by CHRIST'S church to speak or act for God; CHRIST'S church has been alive and well for about 2,000 years now

NO need for joey smith to 'restore' anything at all.

NOTHING that ever existed in the 1st century church ever 'lost' then 'restored by joey' at all.

No need to 'plagarize' when quoting the Bible.
No need to 'plagarize' when simply telling the TRUTH.

But then, you seem to have a problem with that.

BTW, is your REAL Name 'Phoenix?' What name do you post under over at CARM? Same name, or different name?

I'm curious. Do you use multiple names in multiple places to describe yourself?

Christian

04-04-2015, 04:44 PM

phoenix posted:
Then I guess there is a lot you haven't yet learned about the field of antimormonism. Accusations that "joe smith" plagiarized verses from the Bible, or from other books such as shakespeare, have been hurled for well over 100 years I think, but especially in the past couple of decades.

I didn't know there was a 'field' of 'antimormonism.' "joe smith' was the guy's name, and most likely he was called that all of his life by friends and foes alike. Maybe even by his own parents. To whine when Christians call him that demonstrates the weakness of your own positions.

For you to suggest that I 'plagarized' from someone else because my posts are SIMILAR to posts elsewhere demonstrates your own ignorance.

Arguments against heretics have been the same from the first heretics (nearly 2,000 years ago) up to today. They lied, they plagarized, they contradicted. . .and they all did, including joe smith. There is nothing 'new' here. Just Christians exposing the foibles of heretics.
<snip>

But to another person personally, they wouldn't have to do that. I wasn't trying to convince you personally of anything anyway, at least until you ****ed into the conversation. My response was to the poster called "Christian." It was he who asked for comments, so I obliged him and made one.

And it was appreciated, even though it was thoroughly re****ed.

Christian

04-05-2015, 07:48 AM

Do you, Morefish?

Do YOU Morefish?

I ****pie fish mostly. Sometimes I b*** fish. :)

Phoenix

04-05-2015, 09:13 PM

I ****pie fish mostly. Sometimes I b*** fish. :)

That would explain the "trolling" in multiple forums, using "****pie" anti-LDS propaganda....

Christian

04-07-2015, 08:21 AM

That would explain the "trolling" in multiple forums, using "****pie" anti-LDS propaganda....

But your 'fishers of men' descriptions would be lacking or faulty.

Christian

04-07-2015, 08:25 AM

<Translation>
I've been embarr***ed so many times whenever the Mormon Posters come back here that I will now hide myself in the fetal position somewhere where I can not be questioned.

Also, that Poster you are talking about is me. However you will not say who it is because you claimed to put me on your ignore list and you are pretending that you are unable to see my posts......... Busted!

He likely put you in his ignore list because you were dishonest with him. Being in his ignore list doesn't mean he never peeks. That is why there is a 'peeker' link to the posts in that ignore window.

As for the mormon posters causing fear in ANYONE, that is so FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNY! That is like saying a tiny fuzzy little bunnyrabbit is 'scary!' :rolleyes:

Christian

04-08-2015, 06:41 AM

NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.

NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Comments?

STILL nothing that smith really 'restored' that anyone actually believed in the original church. NOTHING but NEW INVENTIONS from the mormons.

dberrie2000

04-08-2015, 08:57 AM

STILL nothing that smith really 'restored' that anyone actually believed in the original church.

Bingo!!!!!

Christian

04-09-2015, 06:54 AM

Bingo!!!!!

No deberrie, nobody in the original church played Bingo! :rolleyes: Nobody believed Jesus was a 'spirit-brother-to-satan' either. Nobody believed in baptism for the dead, going to three 'glories' when they died, or in any prophet, seer, peepstone gazers who 'magically' look at rocks to 'translate' junk either.

dberrie2000

04-09-2015, 08:33 AM

Nobody believed in baptism for the dead,

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

going to three 'glories' when they died,

1 Corinthians 15:40---King James Version (KJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

or in any prophet, seer, peepstone gazers who 'magically' look at rocks to 'translate' junk either.

http://www.gotquestions.org/urim-thummim.html

Question: "What were the Urim and Thummim?"

Answer: The Urim ("lights") and Thummim ("perfections") were gemstones that were carried by the high priest of Israel on the ephod / priestly garments. They were used by the high priest to determine God's will in some situations. Some propose that God would cause the Urim and Thummim to light up in varying patterns to reveal His decision. Others propose that the Urim and Thummim were kept in a pouch and were engraved with symbols identifying yes / no and true / false.

It is unclear whether the Urim and Thummim were on, by, or in the high priest's ephod. No one knows the precise nature of the Urim and Thummim or exactly how they were used. The Bible simply does not give us enough information. References to the Urim and Thummim are rare in the Bible. They are first mentioned in the description of the breastplate of judgment (Exodus 28:30; Leviticus 8:8). When Joshua succeeded Moses as leader over Israel, he was to receive answers from God by means of the Urim through Eleazar the high priest (Numbers 27:21). The Urim and Thummim are next mentioned in Moses' dying blessing upon Levi (Deuteronomy 33:8). The following Scriptures likely also speak of the Urim and Thummim: Joshua 7:14-18; 1 Samuel 14:37-45; and 2 Samuel 21:1.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/urim-thummim.html#ixzz3Wp4G4aZS

Christian

04-11-2015, 06:55 AM

[quote] Originally Posted by Christian Nobody believed in baptism for the dead,

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

NO CHRISTIANS believed in it. IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE TEXT AROUND THIS VERSE so you would KNOW THE CONTEXT, those who were doing that were NON-CHRISTIANS who did NOT believe Jesus had been resurrected.

NO CHRISTIANS did it. The pronouns are "they" and "them," NOT "we" or "us." The mormon religion has lied to you and you have been suckered into it.

going to three 'glories' when they died,

1 Corinthians 15:40---King James Version (KJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Joey smith didn't know the difference between nouns and adjectives. "Glory" is an adjective meaning 'splendor' or 'beauty.' It is NOT A PLACE.

NO CHRISTIAN ANYWHERE BELIEVED YOU WENT TO any "glory." They all believed in one "heaven" where people went.

or in any prophet, seer, peepstone gazers who 'magically' look at rocks to 'translate' junk either.

your peepstone gazer, rock in the hat treasure finder false prophet made up a bunch of junk, just as he did when he pretended to 'translate' a common funeral papari to a pretended 'book of abraham' that has been proven to be false.

Your conman 'prophet' was a conman, and YOU HAVE BEEN CONNED.

I pray for your lost soul.

Christian

04-11-2015, 06:57 AM

Um no, according to reality our church has mortal living apostles.

Just like Christ's original church.

'apostles' of your little mormon religion, NOT OF JESUS CHRIST. NOT ONE WORD FROM GOD makes yours into His. Just the claims of your conman, liar, adulterer, peepstone gazer, tries to shoot his way out of jail, false prophet.

Phoenix

04-11-2015, 11:12 AM

'apostles' of your little mormon religion, NOT OF JESUS CHRIST.

At one time, about 1970 years ago, Christianity was a little religion with 12 mortal apostles.

Erundur

04-11-2015, 11:24 AM

'apostles' of your little mormon religion, NOT OF JESUS CHRIST.
Of course they're apostles of Jesus Christ. But even if you don't believe that, our church has apostles (this is an objective fact), and Christ's original church had apostles (also an objective fact). Yours does not (another objective fact).

Christian

04-11-2015, 05:00 PM

Of course they're apostles of Jesus Christ. But even if you don't believe that, our church has apostles (this is an objective fact), and Christ's original church had apostles (also an objective fact). Yours does not (another objective fact).

A couple MORE objective facts:

1) of the 150+ OTHER smith-church break-offs, MOST of them have (or had) apostles too. Why should we believe YOUR CULT and not theirs?

2) JESUS CHRIST (the REAL One, not the fake "spirit-brother-of-satan 'christ' that joey smith invented) NEVER ONCE SAID that there would be any such 'office of apostle' required in succeeding generations of HIS CHURCH.

3) IF such 'apostles' were required, the Apostle JOHN had PLENTY OF TIME to make them. He did not. God did NOT plan HIS church to have mortal apostles in the generations that came after JOHN.

4) Just because joey smith invited friends to be his 'apostles' does NOT MAKE THEM APOSTLES OF JESUS CHRIST.

5) You CANNOT find ANY connection from YOUR 'apostles' to to the Apostles that Jesus chose, any more than the other 150 or so "latter-day-saints' groups from joey smith's religion could find any connections from THEIRS to the Apostles Jesus Christ chose.

OBJECTIVE FACTS. You seem to like objective facts. So PROVE OBJECTIVELY that ANY of my statements above are false. I don't think you can, since EVERY ONE OF THEM IS TRUE.

Joey smith's religion(s) are victims of the imaginations of joey smith. They are NOT from God.

Christian

04-11-2015, 05:01 PM

Erundur

04-11-2015, 06:04 PM

1) of the 150+ OTHER smith-church break-offs, MOST of them have (or had) apostles too.
So? They can have their apostles if they want. That does not change the objective fact that our church has apostles, just like the original church did.

2) JESUS CHRIST (the REAL One, not the fake "spirit-brother-of-satan 'christ' that joey smith invented) NEVER ONCE SAID that there would be any such 'office of apostle' required in succeeding generations of HIS CHURCH.
This not an objective fact until you prove it.

3) IF such 'apostles' were required, the Apostle JOHN had PLENTY OF TIME to make them. He did not. God did NOT plan HIS church to have mortal apostles in the generations that came after JOHN.
This is not an objective fact until you prove it.

4) Just because joey smith invited friends to be his 'apostles' does NOT MAKE THEM APOSTLES OF JESUS CHRIST.
Well, duh. It's because they were ordained to be apostles by those who had authority from Jesus Christ that makes them apostles of Jesus Christ.

5) You CANNOT find ANY connection from YOUR 'apostles' to to the Apostles that Jesus chose, any more than the other 150 or so "latter-day-saints' groups from joey smith's religion could find any connections from THEIRS to the Apostles Jesus Christ chose.
This is not an objective fact until you prove it. What connection do you imagine is required to exist?

So PROVE OBJECTIVELY that ANY of my statements above are false.
This is called "shifting the burden of proof." It's your responsibility to back up your own claims.

I don't think you can, since EVERY ONE OF THEM IS TRUE. Joey smith's religion(s) are victims of the imaginations of joey smith. They are NOT from God.
Prove it.

alanmolstad

04-12-2015, 07:15 AM

[COLOR=#0000ff]A couple MORE objective facts:

1) of the 150+ OTHER smith-church break-offs, MOST of them have (or had) apostles too.

Is there a general reason that the Mormons tend to split-off this way?

Is it over the question of "sex and money?,

who get it? and who gives it up?

TrueBlue?

08-15-2017, 06:47 PM

NOT ONE CHRISTIAN WRITING ANYWHERE from the first century teaches the 'mormon-specific' teaching of joey smith's, that you may go to any of 'three degrees of' anything at all. Joey smith made that all up.

Originally Posted by theway View Post
Three Degrees of Glory.

You have nothing from GOD that says otherwise. ALL you have is the word of your peepstone gazer, thief, adulterer, conman who tried to shoot his way out of jail, false 'prophet.'

Papias: He was a hearer of the Apostle John, and was on terms of intimate intercourse with many who had known the Lord and His apostles. From these he gathered the floating traditions in regard to the sayings of our Lord, and wove them into a production divided into five books. This work does not seem to have been confined to an exposition of the sayings of Christ, but to have contained much historical information.

Papias :
As the presbyters say, then15 those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shah enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city;16 for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second cl*** will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions:”

Christian

08-18-2017, 05:47 AM

LOL...
Now you are moving the goalposts because your original challenge has been debunked.
You only stated that I needed to show only "ONE THING" that was restored.... I did that! Now you are claiming it has to be something from a First Century Christian...
It appears you never learn your lesson.

Very well then, here it is from First Century Christians...

1 Cor. 15:40-42
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

John14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

You left out this one:

Acts 9:5
5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?"
Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads."
NKJV

See? ANYONE can add unrelated p***ages to a post.

When you try to 'connect' two p***ages like the two you chose that are not about the same subject, that is all you are doing. Just like you did.

Since joey smith supposedly 'restored' stuff from the original church that was supposedly 'lost,' the goalposts remain in exactly the same spots.

Joey INVENTED his junk, including his 3 'glories,' quite often by trying to change the meanings of words such as "glories."

Sorry bubba, but the junk doesn't fit the BIBLE'S ACCOUNTS.

The 'glories' of the celestial bodies are NOT CONSIDERED PLACES YOU WOULD EVER LIVE. The word "glory" is an ADJECTIVE, not a noun.

But then joey smith never was very smart, was he?

Christian

08-21-2017, 07:40 PM

Three Degrees of Glory.

The REAL GLORY OF CHRIST is much brighter than that!

The idea that the 3 degrees of beauty should be places where anyone would ever live was INVENTED by joey smith.

Christ's church (CHRISTIANS) have never believed his invention. . .ever.

Joey didn't 'restore' anything. . .he merely INVENTED such garbage as his religion teaches.

Christian

08-21-2017, 07:49 PM

Papias: He was a hearer of the Apostle John, and was on terms of intimate intercourse with many who had known the Lord and His apostles. From these he gathered the floating traditions in regard to the sayings of our Lord, and wove them into a production divided into five books. This work does not seem to have been confined to an exposition of the sayings of Christ, but to have contained much historical information.

Johan Periwinkel III: He was a hearer of Jesus Christ and on terms of intimate with many other CHRISTIANS stated:

"The very idea that anyone LIVES in the glory of the sun, moon, or stars is beyond stupid."

Christian

08-28-2017, 06:53 AM

You cannot find ONE WHOLE SENTENCE IN THE BIBLE that requires 'living mortal apostles' of JESUS to be present in every generation of the church UNLESS you ALSO HAVE A 'living mortal jesus' to go along with them.

NOTHING connecting the buddies of joe smith to the REAL Apostles of Jesus Christ. Just the word of joe smith, whom you must idolize.

Christian

08-28-2017, 04:07 PM

berry posted:

Originally Posted by Christian http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=162311#post162311)
Nobody believed in baptism for the dead,

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

WHO did that? Those who did NOT believe in the resurrection of the dead. . .NON CHRISTIANS, NOT CHRIST'S CHURCH

1 Corinthians 15:40---King James Version (KJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
PLEASE UNDERLINE where it says anyone would go there. Please UNDERLINE where 'glory' means a PLACE anywhere. Oh, your UNDERLINE IS BROKEN?

Question: "What were the Urim and Thummim?"

Answer: The Urim ("lights") and Thummim ("perfections") were gemstones that were carried by the high priest of Israel on the ephod / priestly garments. They were used by the high priest to determine God's will in some situations. Some propose that God would cause the Urim and Thummim to light up in varying patterns to reveal His decision. Others propose that the Urim and Thummim were kept in a pouch and were engraved with symbols identifying yes / no and true / false.

It is unclear whether the Urim and Thummim were on, by, or in the high priest's ephod. No one knows the precise nature of the Urim and Thummim or exactly how they were used. The Bible simply does not give us enough information. References to the Urim and Thummim are rare in the Bible. They are first mentioned in the description of the breastplate of judgment (Exodus 28:30; Leviticus 8:8). When Joshua succeeded Moses as leader over Israel, he was to receive answers from God by means of the Urim through Eleazar the high priest (Numbers 27:21). The Urim and Thummim are next mentioned in Moses' dying blessing upon Levi (Deuteronomy 33:8). The following Scriptures likely also speak of the Urim and Thummim: Joshua 7:14-18;

NOTHING about the Urim or Thummim in the whole p***age. You are smoking the wrong stuff.

1 Samuel 14:37-45;

Nope, none of either there either. You are grasping at straws.

and 2 Samuel 21:1.

none of either there either. You are apparently getting desperate.

But joe smith thought the urim and thummim was a dirty old rock stuck in his hat, right?

How gullible ARE YOU?

Christian

08-28-2017, 04:18 PM

All of them? I didn't know that, but okay.

Yes, but the real ones chosen by Jesus are not.

Of course it did.

Prove it.

That's true, because it's a made-up anti-Mormon rule. I see no indication in the New Testament that the apostles became illegitimate as soon as Jesus ascended.

No, I can't come up with a fake Jesus. That's why I follow the real one.

You cannot, you clearly don't even KNOW HIM. :(

Erundur

08-28-2017, 06:56 PM

You cannot
And yet I do.

you clearly don't even KNOW HIM.
Mindless anti-LDS hate-spew.

Christian

08-28-2017, 09:23 PM

runder posted:

Originally Posted by Christian Speaking of the mormon'apostles'),
Why should we believe YOURS and not THEIRS were chosen by Jesus?
I don't care what you believe. However, even if one of the splinter groups had the real apostles, that still precludes your cult from being Christ's church.

And you think THAT is being an 'apologist?'

Col 4:6
6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
NKJV

You don't care to obey GOD'S WORD, the BIBLE, huh.

Then why can't you find CHAPTER AND VERSE where GOD ever said so?

You ***ume that I can't. Apostles were chosen after the original 12. You should really read the New Testament sometime

I have read all of it several times through, done exegetical studies of most of the books in it. IF YOU COULD SOMEHOW 'CONNECT' the cronies of joe smith who were his first 12, then the elected 'good old boys' that followed, to the Apostles of the Bible, you would know they are NOT the same kind of people.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're all talk, no substance

Speak for (and OF) yourself. . . :p

Since Jesus Christ is part of the SAME SENTENCE and SAME SUBJECT, then you MUST (according to your own misinterpretation of this p***age) have a LIVE AND PHYSICALLY MORTAL 'jesus' hiding in your cellar somewhere

False.

PROVE IT. You cannot of course. You are all talk, no substance, just as you said.

You want to 'cherry-pick' tiny partial sentences, pretend they mean junk the original writers did in not any mean have anything to do with, and try to force it into your own private paradigm. Reasoned discourse is beyond your capabilities, apparently. Understanding of the Bible (the only REAL scriptures) is beyond you.

alanmolstad

08-29-2017, 04:21 AM

the term "Anti-Mormon or in this case anti-LDS" is not allowed here.

Erundur

08-29-2017, 09:07 AM

hristian posted:

You are all talk, no substance, just as you said.

You want to 'cherry-pick' tiny partial sentences, pretend they mean junk the original writers did in not any mean have anything to do with, and try to force it into your own private paradigm. Reasoned discourse is beyond your capabilities, apparently. Understanding of the Bible (the only REAL scriptures) is beyond you.
And you think THAT is being an 'apologist?'

Col 4:6
6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
NKJV

You don't care to obey GOD'S WORD, the BIBLE, huh.

Christian

08-30-2017, 06:44 AM

hristian posted:

And you think THAT is being an 'apologist?'

Col 4:6
6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
NKJV

You don't care to obey GOD'S WORD, the BIBLE, huh.

I try to obey EVERY WORD of God's Word, the Bible.

YOU are the one who claimed you 'don't care' what I believe.

YOU are the pot calling the kettle black

Christian

08-30-2017, 06:47 AM

NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.

NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Comments?

STILL nothing that joe smith ever RESTORED. NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that his junk wasn't fiction (except where he copied the kjv Bible). . .

TrueBlue?

08-30-2017, 06:55 AM

STILL nothing that joe smith ever RESTORED. NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that his junk wasn't fiction (except where he copied the kjv Bible). . .

I did, here (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3549-Mormons-can-t-find-ONE-THING-smith-restored&p=173593&viewfull=1#post173593) and you ignored it. I understand why you ignored it, cant acknowledge evidence that early christians had doctrine similar to Mormons, but truth is truth.

Erundur

08-30-2017, 08:26 AM

STILL nothing that joe smith ever RESTORED.
Except for all the stuff we pointed out at the beginning of the thread...

Christian

09-05-2017, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Christian View Post
STILL nothing that joe smith ever RESTORED.

Except for all the stuff we pointed out at the beginning of the thread...

Three degrees of glory? NOTHING ANYWHERE FROM GOD EVER says that people live in 'glories' when they die. . .joe smith just INVENTED that fairytale. His concept requires a new and made-up MEANING of the word 'glory.'

THAT is 'all the stuff [y'all] pointed out at the beginning of the thread.' YOU didn't even do that. . .'theway' did.

Christian

09-05-2017, 12:40 PM

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Christian http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173680#post173680)

STILL nothing that joe smith ever RESTORED. NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that his junk wasn't fiction (except where he copied the kjv Bible). . .

I did, here (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?3549-Mormons-can-t-find-ONE-THING-smith-restored&p=173593&viewfull=1#post173593) and you ignored it. I understand why you ignored it, cant acknowledge evidence that early christians had doctrine similar to Mormons, but truth is truth.

1. EVIDENCE requires CHECKABLE CITATIONS, and NONE of those are there.

2. WHO is 'papias?' Was he a known heretic who thought that God was a duck or a golden calf?

3. There is NO EVIDENCE that the CHRISTIANS AS A CHURCH ever believed any such thing.

4. You had to search pretty hard to find an anomaly you could PRETEND made a case for yourself (though it didn't.)

Christian

09-05-2017, 12:46 PM

NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.

NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Comments?

STILL NO EVIDENCE. NOTHING but a few 'claims' of one man who supposedly believed you can live on a 'pretty or a 'wonderful' ' when you die (a 'glory').

And even THAT JUNK not properly CITED so we could check it out.

TYPICAL CULT BEHAVIOR IMHO.

WHERE are your 'families are forever?' Your 'you can become a god?' Your 'twelve-year-old 'elders? Your 'authorities?' Your 'high priests? (OTHER THAN JESUS HIMSELF)? YOUR manmade 'apostles.' Your multiple gods? Your 'spirit children?'
Your 'spirit-brother-of-satan jesus?'

Oh yes, JOEY SMITH INVENTED ALL THEM HORSE-APPLES.

Christian

09-09-2017, 04:31 PM

LOL...
Now you are moving the goalposts because your original challenge has been debunked.
You only stated that I needed to show only "ONE THING" that was restored.... I did that! Now you are claiming it has to be something from a First Century Christian...
It appears you never learn your lesson.

Very well then, here it is from First Century Christians...

1 Cor. 15:40-42
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

John14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Prov 13:24
24 He who spares his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.
NKJV

See? I can add a disconnected p***age that has nothing to do with 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 too! :rolleyes: Whoopie doodle!

NOW. . .SHOW US SCRIPTURE or ANYONE IN CHRIST'S ORIGINAL CHURCH who believed that when you died you went to 'glories' (Beautifuls, magnificents, PRONOUNS).

Joey smith DID LIKE TO INVENT JUNK, didn't he? Jesus never set up any such doctrine, and CHRISTIANS have never believed such dung.