When was the supposed complete Apostasy of CHRIST'S church?

[Christian]

Mormonism is predicated upon the fantasy that the church Jesus Christ built 'fell away,' 'lost its right and authority to act and speak for God.'

Yet mormonism only whines about the roman catholic sect's apostasy, pretending the roman catholics cons***uted CHRIST'S CHURCH.

That would be like saying that because the fifth ward of the south podunk stake of the lds church apostasized, so the entire lds church has no authority to do ANYTHING at all.

Sorry mormons, but your theory simply falls flat.

Comments?

[Phoenix]

When was the supposed complete Apostasy of CHRIST'S church?

Christian Pastor John Wesley, founder of the Methodist churches, claimed that by the time of the Nicene Council (325 A.D., in case you didn't know), Christendom had fallen into a terrible state where there remained almost none of the gifts of the Spirit that were common in the 1st century.

But your main fallacy was in ***uming that LDS doctrine is that there was a complete apostasy of Christ's church. Had you done the basic homework, you should have learned that the doctrine is that a time came when the guys in charge of it were doing so without legitimate authority. That doesn't mean that among the lay members, there weren't any believers.

Those are the comments I have for now. Sorry they aren't in green, hope you can still read them.

[dberrie2000]

[COLOR=#008000]Mormonism is predicated upon the fantasy that the church Jesus Christ built 'fell away,' 'lost its right and authority to act and speak for God.'

Yet mormonism only whines about the roman catholic sect's apostasy, pretending the roman catholics cons***uted CHRIST'S CHURCH.

The LDS do not believe the Catholic church formed Christ's church.


That would be like saying that because the fifth ward of the south podunk stake of the lds church apostasized, so the entire lds church has no authority to do ANYTHING at all.

Evidently, the Reformers did not believe the Catholic church held the power or authority--or they would not have started whole new denominations independent of the Catholic church.

Which brings an interesting question--where did the Reformers get their authority from? If there was an apostasy--then there would have to be a heavenly event that restored the authority.

[Christian]

Christian Pastor John Wesley, founder of the Methodist churches, claimed that by the time of the Nicene Council (325 A.D., in case you didn't know), Christendom had fallen into a terrible state where there remained almost none of the gifts of the Spirit that were common in the 1st century.

But your main fallacy was in ***uming that LDS doctrine is that there was a complete apostasy of Christ's church. Had you done the basic homework, you should have learned that the doctrine is that a time came when the guys in charge of it were doing so without legitimate authority. That doesn't mean that among the lay members, there weren't any believers.

Those are the comments I have for now. Sorry they aren't in green, hope you can still read them.

joey smith (the inventer of his own new religion in case you didn't know) also said there were people living on the moon, short in stature and dressed like quakers.

There are nuts in every camp since Adam and Eve (in case you didn't know).

WITHOUT a COMPLETE apostasy by the Christian church, no smith religion would need to exist. AS LONG AS THERE IS ONE faithful Christian, there will be NO 'lost authority to speak or act for God' and NO SCRIPTURE WILL EVER BE LOST.

As the SCRIPTURES tell us:

Heb 12:25-29
For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven." 27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
NKJV

Matt 16:18
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
NKJV

smithy would have you believe that CHRIST'S church was overcom (prevailed against) and destroyed or removed (shaken).

joey smith lied to you. The WORD OF GOD IS TRUE.

smithy was a liar.

[Christian]

berry posted:

The LDS do not believe the Catholic church formed Christ's church.

And yet YOU and other lds folks continuously rail against the catholic church for its apostasy, pretending that cons***uted 'the loss of the church' that Jesus built.

Methinks you don't speak for the majority of mormons. . . :rolleyes:


Evidently, the Reformers did not believe the Catholic church held the power or authority--or they would not have started whole new denominations independent of the Catholic church.

evidently brigham young did not believe joseph smith's church held any power or authority . . .or HE would have never started a whole new denomination independent of joseph smith's church.

Which brings an interesting question--where did the Reformers get their authority from? If there was an apostasy--then there would have to be a heavenly event that restored the authority.

So when the fundamentalists apostasized from the mormon religion, then WHERE WAS YOUR 'HEAVENLY EVENT' that supposedly 'restored' any authority to YOUR RELIGION? After all, if folks leaving CHRISTIANITY causes CHRIST'S church to 'lose its authority,' then folks leaving YOUNG's religion MUST ALSO CAUSE THAT RELIGION TO LOSE ITS AUTHORITY. Either that or your god is a liar, showing partiality of joey smith's/brigham young's invention over JESUS CHRIST'S church!


Naah. The reformers got their authority from the same place ALL CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE get our authority from; GOD HIMSELF

1 Peter 2:7-10
7 Therefore, to you who believe (That would include EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE, EVEN THE REFORMERS), He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
"The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,"
8 and
"A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense."
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
NKJV


Not from some nutcase 'religion inventor' like joey smith. NOT by 'going out into the woods to play religion' as ollie cowdery and joey smith did, 'ordaining' each other and 'baptizing' each other, playing imaginary games. . .

Nope, joey smith just lied to you. And apparently you fell for it!

[dberrie2000]

Mormonism is predicated upon the fantasy that the church Jesus Christ built 'fell away,' 'lost its right and authority to act and speak for God.'

Yet mormonism only whines about the roman catholic sect's apostasy, pretending the roman catholics cons***uted CHRIST'S CHURCH.

That would be like saying that because the fifth ward of the south podunk stake of the lds church apostasized, so the entire lds church has no authority to do ANYTHING at all.

Sorry mormons, but your theory simply falls flat.

Comments?


The LDS do not believe the Catholic church formed Christ's church.
Evidently, the Reformers did not believe the Catholic church held the power or authority--or they would not have started whole new denominations independent of the Catholic church.

Which brings an interesting question--where did the Reformers get their authority from? If there was an apostasy--then there would have to be a heavenly event that restored the authority.


And yet YOU and other lds folks continuously rail against the catholic church for its apostasy, pretending that cons***uted 'the loss of the church' that Jesus built.

Methinks you don't speak for the majority of mormons. . . :rolleyes:

Again--the LDS do not believe the Catholic church formed Christ's church--nor His gospel. The LDS believe just what the Reformers believed--there had been an apostasy. The Reformers formed new denominations with a new theology.


So when the fundamentalists apostasized from the mormon religion, then WHERE WAS YOUR 'HEAVENLY EVENT' that supposedly 'restored' any authority to YOUR RELIGION?

The LDS church history is full of heavenly events. That there are splinter groups does nothing to annul that. There were apostate groups within the NT church--but that did nothing to the authority of the NT denomination the Lord formed and recognized--and was founded upon the living, mortal apostles--Jesus Christ forming the Chief Corner Stone.

Doctrine and Covenants 110

1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

[Phoenix]

[COLOR=#008000]joey smith (the inventer of his own new religion in case you didn't know) also said there were people living on the moon, short in stature and dressed like quakers.
I think you fell for some hearsay or gossip rumors. And what does that have to do with the reasonable answer I gave to the question?
(When was the supposed complete Apostasy of CHRIST'S church?)

I gave one person's (person you know or think is a saved Christian) answer the question. Here is another, so you will know that multiple saved Christians believed that a terrible apostasy had begun to prevail over Christendom within 4 centuries of its founding:

Roger Williams (1604-1683), pastor of the oldest Baptist Church in America, stated "There is no regularly-cons***uted church on earth, nor any person authorized to administer any Church ordinance: nor can there be, until new apostles are sent by the great Head of the Church, for whose coming I am seeking....the apostasy ... hath so far corrupted all, that there can be no recovery out of that apostasy until Christ shall send forth new apostles to plant churches anew."


There are nuts in every camp since Adam and Eve (in case you didn't know).
You're saying Adam and Eve were nuts? Or just one of the two were nuts?


WITHOUT a COMPLETE apostasy by the Christian church, no smith religion would need to exist.
I disagree, and so would Martin Luther I bet. He probably believed that no COMPLETE apostasy by the entire Christian church had occurred, yet apparently he felt like he had no choice but to make up one of his own.


AS LONG AS THERE IS ONE faithful Christian, there will be NO 'lost authority to speak or act for God' and NO SCRIPTURE WILL EVER BE LOST.
That's like saying "As long as there is one obedient private left in the U.S. Army, there won't ever be a need to authorize any generals to run it."


smithy would have you believe that CHRIST'S church was overcom (prevailed against) and destroyed or removed (shaken).
How come I don't believe he said any such thing?


joey smith lied to you.
Not that I am aware of as far as this subject goes. I think whoever told you that it's an LDS doctrine that all of Christianity ceased to exist--or that restored teachings and authority are only necessary when such an extinction occurs--is the liar.


The WORD OF GOD IS TRUE.
I agree. The words of some contra-LDS aren't true, though.

[Christian]

phoenix posted:

I think you fell for some hearsay or gossip rumors. And what does that have to do with the reasonable answer I gave to the question?
(When was the supposed complete Apostasy of CHRIST'S church?)

WHAT 'reasonable answer?' A couple of anecdotes?

Sorry, but a few anecdotes does NOT TRUTH MAKE.


WITHOUT a COMPLETE apostasy by the Christian church, no smith religion would need to exist.

I disagree, and so would Martin Luther I bet. He probably believed that no COMPLETE apostasy by the entire Christian church had occurred, yet apparently he felt like he had no choice but to make up one of his own.

As Jay Leno would say, "HOW STUPID IS THAT?!!!!" Martin Luther would no more believe joe smith than he would believe the pope.
You would CLEARLY lose your bet

AS LONG AS ONE SINGLE CHRISTIAN was a member of CHRIST'S BODY, HIS CHURCH, there would BE NO lost gospel, NO lost scriptures, and NO lost authority to speak for God.

Your cult has lied to you. . .as usual.


AS LONG AS THERE IS ONE faithful Christian, there will be NO 'lost authority to speak or act for God' and NO SCRIPTURE WILL EVER BE LOST.

That's like saying "As long as there is one obedient private left in the U.S. Army, there won't ever be a need to authorize any generals to run it."

Sorry, but your theory falls into the toilet with the rest of smith's dung. CHRIST'S body is not 'run' by generals. EVERY PART of Christ's BODY, HIS CHURCH is of equal importance and 'rank.' The eye is no greater than the big toe. He who is LEAST will be greatest in the kingdom of GOD. Jesus said so.


smithy would have you believe that CHRIST'S church was overcome (prevailed against) and destroyed or removed (shaken).

How come I don't believe he said any such thing?

Either because you are IGNORANT of it, or because you don't believe the God of the Bible.

GOD has told us:

Matt 16:18
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
NKJV
Heb 12:25-29
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven." 27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
NKJV


And yet joey smith claimed the church JESUS BUILT lost its authority and left (apostasized).

HOW RIDICULOUS IS THAT?


joey smith lied to you.

Not that I am aware of as far as this subject goes. I think whoever told you that it's an LDS doctrine that all of Christianity ceased to exist--or that restored teachings and authority are only necessary when such an extinction occurs--is the liar.

By DEFINITION, before it needed to be 'restored,' it must be either removed, destroyed, or lost.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the SAME AS IT WAS 2,000 years ago and HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MULTIPLE GODS, TEMPLES, BAPTISMS FOR THE DEAD, OR YOU WANTING TO BECOME A GOD.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ and ALL OF THE AUTHORITY He gave HIS church has never been removed, lost, or destroyed. NEITHER does the nonsense joey smith INVENTED have anything to do with the REAL GOD, the GOD OF THE BIBLE.

YOU CANNOT DEMONSTRATE ONE SINGLE "RESTORED" THING that was ever lost, removed, or destroyed by GOD and 'restored' by joey smith. ALL you can find is joey smith's INVENTED RELIGION.


THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE

I agree. The words of some contra-LDS aren't true, though.

The words of some lds folks aren't true either. Joey smith, ollie cowdery, bringum young, etc are proof of that.

The WORD OF GOD is true. Joey smith's lies are not.

[Christian]

cog posted:

Originally Posted by ChristianWITHOUT a COMPLETE apostasy by the Christian church, no smith religion would need to exist. AS LONG AS THERE IS ONE faithful Christian, there will be NO 'lost authority to speak or act for God' and NO SCRIPTURE WILL EVER BE LOST.


This statement of belief is false. A living Christian doesn't cons***ute divine authority. When the 12 were on earth with Jesus he committed the keys of the kingdom to them.


You are wrong. Jesus gave the keys of the kingdom ONLY TO PETER (Matthew 16:18-19), NOT to the rest of the Apostles. Those Apostles were NEVER called 'priest' either, btw. Jesus would not qualify to be an Aaronic priest (He was of the wrong tribe, the tribe of JUDAH.


These are the priesthood keys that are necessary for the operations and workings of the priesthood.

joseph smith made that junk up. The TRUTH is that the Bible (the Word of God) says no such thing. IN REALITY, Peter "opened the church" with them at Pentecost when he led about 3,000 folks to Jesus Christ.

Joey smith's made up 'priesthood' has no authority from Jesus Christ at all.

When the apostles were gone, so were the keys. All the keys are only held by the apostles in an earthly sense.

So you think Jesus was so stupid He wouldn't have KNOWN that the Apostles would all die, so he made no provision for HIS church to continue on? HOW STUPID DO YOU THINK JESUS IS?

The Savior, of course, holds ALL the keys. Individual Christians did not hold keys and cannot use the priesthood without proper authority upon the earth.

Christ's church was not run by joey smith's imaginary 'priests.' smith took that idea most likely from the roman catholic religion.

According to GOD, EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE is a member of CHRIST'S ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, btw, not just men and little boys who call each other 'elder' (a joke from this 70 year old man! :rolleyes: )

You say scripture was never lost but the Bible itself declares it so. What about the many books named by biblical scripture that are not in the Bible? Did you know there are supposed to be three letters to Corinth, not 2?

And EXACTLY WHERE do you find ANY OF THEM NAMED AS SCRIPTURE? Apparently YOU don't know that the letters to Corinth were just that. . .LETTERS. Why would you BLINDLY SPECULATE that God was so stupid He would let SCRIPTURE be lost?

NONE of those books were ever called 'scripture.' SOME were QUOTATIONS from other SCRIPTURE, and although NONE of the OT books had names when they were written (those were added later), they would be references to EACH OTHER in that case.

I will focus on this verse since it is one of my favorite parts of the New Testament. "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The first thing that needs to happen is an understanding of what is being talked about. The focus here is the word "it". What is the " it"? It certainly isn't the church.

The p***age:

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
NKJV


Yes, the DIRECT ANTECEDENT IS CHURCH. It is NOT peter. It is NOT 'revelation.' It is not rock (JESUS is the rock, of course. . .)

Your 'explanation' (that I <snipped> because it was false) violates Greek AND English Grammar.

All you succeeded in doing was to parrot the party line of the mormon religion.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is built upon Jesus Christ and the revelation He gives through His servants.

Totally FALSE. Your religion is built SOLELY upon the false claims of joey smith, nothing more. NOT ONE of your so-called 'prophets' has actually PROPHESIED in over 75 years to my knowledge. You HAVE NO REAL PROPHETS. All you have is 'wannabees.'

Joey smith invented your religion. There is NOT ONE SINGLE THING Jesus taught that was ever lost or 'restored' by joey smith.

[Christian]

cog posted:
When it came to the keys Jesus was speaking to all of the apostles, not just Peter. Jesus gave them the keys of the priesthood. Nobody said Jesus was an Aaronic priest although you do miss the fact that He was a descendant of Aaron through Mary. You need to do some more studying if you don't know this fact.

Perhaps YOU don't know the fact that priesthoods were p***ed through the MALE side of the family. Jesus was the King of the JEWS, not the levites.

As for Peter and the keys, GOD said in HIS WORD:
Matt 16:16-19
16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
NASU

Once again YOUR ENGLISH GRAMMAR is lacking. The direct personal antecedent is PETER, not the other apostles. In the previous sentences the person being spoken to is PETER, NOT ALL OF THE APOSTLES OR DISCIPLES. BTW, it does NOT say 'all the apostles,' but says DISCIPLES which would include many who WERE NOT APOSTLES AT ALL.

Perhaps you should rethink this one. . .


First, the Bible never says the Bible is all there is and please don't reference Revelation for that, I've heard it many times and it's funny how many Christians don't get what chapter 22 refers to.

Chapter 22 refers to the book of the Revelation to John.

HOWEVER. . .

ANYONE WHO WRITES ANYTHING that pretends to be from GOD cannot contradict what the Bible says.

Such as

Isa 43:10-11
10 "You are My witnesses," declares the Lord,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
11 "I, even I, am the Lord,
And there is no savior besides Me.
NASU
Isa 44:6
6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
NASU

Isa 44:8
8 'Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And you are My witnesses.
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none.'"
NASU
So if some clown comes along and tries to tell you that many real gods inhabit and rule over many different planets or galaxies, you KNOW THEY ARE LIARS AND ARE NOT FROM GOD.

IF that clown tries to tell you that a 'council of Gods' met on some made-up planet, the REAL GOD, THE GOD OF THE BIBLE doesn't even KNOW THEM. As for the 'gods' that joey smith (pgp abraham 4:1ff) invented who supposedly 'organized' the earth, they are the made-up INVENTIONS of the clown joey smith.




Where in the Bible did anyone perform an ordinance without the priesthood? Nowhere.


WHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH does it list EVEN ONE CHRISTIAN who is not a priest in the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD OF JESUS? Nowhere. EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE is a priest in CHRIST'S KINGDOM.

1 Peter 2:7-10
7 Therefore, to you who believe, (That would include EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE).
He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
"The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,"
8 and
"A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense."
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
NKJV



Please SHOW US EVEN ONE PRIEST OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF in the New Testament church IN SCRIPTURE.

You cannot, since none exists.

John declared he was baptizing with water but Jesus would baptize with fire and the Holy Ghost. Why? Because John held the Aaronic priesthood and not the Melchizedek priesthood.

HOGWASH. NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE says John the Baptist was ever ordained an aaronic priest. NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE says ANYONE was a Melchizedek priest ANYWHERE except for Melchizedek himself and JESUS CHRIST.

Just because joey smith INVENTED something he 'called' a melchizedek priesthood does NOT mean it came from God. It came from joey.

Why didn't Jesus go to just anyone if any Christian can supposedly baptize (which they can't)? Because John held the authority.

OF COURSE EVERY CHRISTIAN CAN. NO SCRiPTURE ANYWHERE SAYS OTHERWISE. John the Baptist was a priest under the OLD TESTAMENT LAW, the Law we are no longer under (when was the last time YOU brought animals to be slaughtered as a sacrifice for your sins?).


Did you really just put words in my mouth? Jesus is never stupid nor is he wrong. The apostles never gave the keys to anyone. Nobody but the apostles held all the keys after Jesus left. They are significant for ordinances. A church without keys doesn't perform baptisms but gives baths.

Another one of those FANTASIES invented by joey smith. Pure hogwash, of course. . .joey just made it up. NOT ONE WORD FROM GOD SAYS SO.



Originally Posted by ChristianChrist's church was not run by joey smith's imaginary 'priests.' smith took that idea most likely from the roman catholic religion.



Most likely? In other words you don't know where the prophet got the idea that God is one of organization. Well, 1 Corinthians 14 is a good start. God isn't the author of confusion. Joseph Smith received revelation about how the Lord's church is to be ran. It also matches up with the Bible

The TRUTH is IT DOES NOT match up with the Bible at all. No, I do't know where your false 'prophet' got his screwy ideas. The Buddhists, Jainists, and jw's have orderly organizations too, but they didn't come from God either.

In the BIBLE, NO prophet headed the church, NO manmade 'apostle wannabes' led it. PROPHETS in the OT ACTUALLY PROPHESIED, UNLIKE your modernday mormon wanabe 'prophets' who haven't been able to prophesy EVEN ONCE in the last 4 or 5 generations of folks who held your make-believe office.

NO 'priesthood authority' was slung around like a dirty cape in the church JESUS built, UNLIKE YOUR ORGANIZATION.

Sorry, but the similarities are almost none, while the DIFFERENCES ARE PLENTIFUL.



Originally Posted by Christian According to GOD, EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE is a member of CHRIST'S ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, btw, not just men and little boys who call each other 'elder' (a joke from this 70 year old man! :rolleyes: )


As in every saint who is actually a saint.

That INCLUDES EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE, ALL BELIEVERS EVERYWHERE. REMEMBER THE SCRIPTURE I quoted?

Protestants are not part of the royal priesthood because the priesthood is only found in the Lord's church.


joey smith tried to pretend that too, but the SCRIPTURES refer to ALL WHO HAVE FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST as 'saints.' Not just folks who belong to a cultic sect.

All men and women in the LDS Church are members of the royal priesthood. The men hold it and the women receive the blessings from the priesthood.

Hogwash. The men and women who BELIEVE the mormon doctrines do NOT BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD OR JESUS as the Bible describes. They make their own 'jesus' to be a spirit demon, a spirit brother to satan. They believe in the existance of MULTIPLE REAL gods, which the God of the Bible debunks.

Sorry, but those who believe joey smith do NOT believe the REAL God or Jesus at all.

[Christian]

berry posted:
Again--the LDS do not believe the Catholic church formed Christ's church--nor His gospel. The LDS believe just what the Reformers believed--there had been an apostasy.


IF they believe what the reformers REALLY DID BELIEVE, then the lds believe ONLY THAT THE RCC apostasized, NOT CHRISTIANITY AS A WHOLE.

The Reformers formed new denominations with a new theology.

Sorry, but they were now studying the Bible and drawing away from the bad teaching they had received. Their theology wasn't perfect, but it was closely approaching what the BIBLE taught as they studied it.

New theology? New denominations? You mean like the southern los angeles stake, the louisville north stake? 'Denominations' or parts of a whole like those?

No new theology at all.

Sorry berry, but you have been drinking too much mormon propaganda kool-aid, imho.

The LDS church history is full of heavenly events. That there are splinter groups does nothing to annul that.


The jw's also will tell you they are full of heavenly events. Your own splinter groups will make the same kinds of statements. So does that make your splinter groups and the jw''s become 'of God?' Naah. Neither do they make your own heretical group become 'of God.'

There were apostate groups within the NT church--but that did nothing to the authority of the NT denomination the Lord formed and recognized--and was founded upon the living, mortal apostles--Jesus Christ forming the Chief Corner Stone.

<snipped> the joey smith fantasy stories. Not interested in joey's false claims.

Of course you have your make-believe 'apostles,' but you seem to be missing THE MAIN PART OF YOUR FOUNDATION, the living, mortal Jesus Christ, THE CORNERSTONE!

The God of the Bible is NOT so inconsistant. The Apostles of CHRIST'S church are the foundation of HIS church and are WHERE HE IS. . .IN HEAVEN.

Yours may be in a slightly warmer place. . .