Which mormonism?

[Christian]

joey smith built a new religion.
brigham young and many others apostasized from it.
WHY should anyone believe that the utah ones were the 'right' ones?

After all

joey SAID that HIS SON (joey III) would become the next president of the religion HE invented.
and HIS SON (joey III) was the next president of the REORGANIZED group, what was left after brigham young ran off with much of the flock. . .

Did joey's god LIE? OH MY!

[Erundur]

brigham young and many others apostasized from it.
This is false. Brigham Young was selected by the church as the successor to Joseph Smith in the church that JS organized. Therefore BY did not apostatize.

[Erundur]

You must have MoreFish confused with someone who actually cares or has ears to hear and eyes to see outside his negative paradigm of Mormonism.
Nah, I just like playing with him. :)

[Phoenix]

WHY should anyone believe that the utah ones were the 'right' ones?

One possible indicator is the amount of vitriol that is barfed against them. Do any of the other ones get anything close to the amount of hatred from contra-LDS people?

[Christian]

This is false. Brigham Young was selected by the church as the successor to Joseph Smith in the church that JS organized. Therefore BY did not apostatize.

So bringum young won the popularity contest and led his fellow apostates away, huh? AND 'the church's prophet, joey smith' at various OTHER times named SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE to be the next leader of HIS church too.

So many lies.

So many contradictions.

So many mormon religions in less than 200 years!

[Christian]

cog posted:


Originally Posted by Christian

joey smith built a new religion.
brigham young and many others apostasized from it.
WHY should anyone believe that the utah ones were the 'right' ones?

After all

joey SAID that HIS SON (joey III) would become the next president of the religion HE invented.
and HIS SON (joey III) was the next president of the REORGANIZED group, what was left after brigham young ran off with much of the flock. . .

Did joey's god LIE? OH MY!

You are way off. Joseph Smith prophesied that Brigham Young would lead the church after Joseph's p***ing.

He also prophesied that oliver cowdery and several others would lead the church after his p***ing. Covered ALL his bases so as to make no enemies, apparently.

Joseph Smith invented nothing. Have you read the Book of Mormon?

Every word, ALSO every word of the d&c (version available in 1973, pgp, book of commandments AND the bom IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM, BEFORE the changes were made.

If not, you haven't studied this church. This church was established by JESUS CHRIST, the only Jesus Christ there is. The same Jesus the Bible and Book of Mormon both testify of.

You follow a false prophet and a false christ. CERTAINLY there are more than one, btw. . .you don't know your Bible.

Matt 24:24-25
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
NKJV

Mark 13:22-23
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
NKJV

I guess you and joey think that Jesus was too stupid to know to tell you that he built a church that would (according to joey smith) fail. . .

Your current church theology seems to tell us that YOUR 'jesus' is a 'spirit child' of YOUR god, thus a 'spirit-brother' of SATAN, ANOTHER 'spirit child' of YOUR GOD.

The Jesus we CHRISTIANS follow has NO such relationship with satan. Neither does our GOD.

[Erundur]

So bringum young won the popularity contest and led his fellow apostates away, huh?
I have no idea what you're talking about.



So many lies.

So many contradictions.
Yeah, that's a pretty good description of anti-Mormon propaganda.

[Christian]

K posted:

Originally Posted by Erundur (http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=163034#post163034)This is false. Brigham Young was selected by the church as the successor to Joseph Smith in the church that JS organized. Therefore BY did not apostatize.


You must have MoreFish confused with someone who actually cares or has ears to hear and eyes to see outside his negative paradigm of Mormonism.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, I have the SAME 'negative paradigm of' islam, satanism, branch davidianism and other heathen groups too. I am merely interested in THE TRUTH OF THE REAL GOD, the GOD OF THE BIBLE, and not in all those false other gods.

And young?

Let's see. . .young's group chose HIM as its leader. I see. . .Yep he WAS the popular one. . .

[Christian]

phoenix posted:


Originally Posted by Christian WHY should anyone believe that the utah ones were the 'right' ones?

One possible indicator is the amount of vitriol that is barfed against them. Do any of the other ones get anything close to the amount of hatred from contra-LDS people?

I asked an HONEST question, and you make such a vitriolic junky response? Please DARKEN the part of this HONEST QUESTION that you think is "hatred."

Or are you simply lying to cover up the truth that you have no answer?

Since when is ASKING HONEST QUESTIONS 'vitriol' to anyone other than a person who has something to hide?

Now PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION. . .

There have been over 150+ groups of people who have claimed THEIR version of smith's religion is the 'right one.'

WHY (Or can you simply NOT give an HONEST ANSWER) should anyone consider the utah mormons to be the 'right ones?'

You may keep your 'at***ude' to yourself. I already have one of my own. I am interested in the TRUTH FROM GOD. NOT your 'opinions' or your 'snide shots,' BUT GOD'S WORD, the BIBLE in any HONEST support of joe smith's religion OR brigham young's religion.

[theway]

This is false. Brigham Young was selected by the church as the successor to Joseph Smith in the church that JS organized. Therefore BY did not apostatize.
Technically, Hyrum Smith was already co-president with Joseph Smith. Had Hyrum not of been killed, Hyrum would have remained as the sole President. Brigham Young as part of the Quorum of the Twelve, already had the same power and authority as Joseph Smith. Therefore there was no selecting by the church needed when both Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith were killed, as the Quorum of the Twelve already had the authority and held the keys to the leadership of the Church. All that was left was for the Twelve to elect a new President.

[Phoenix]

I asked an HONEST question
sorry, i have doubts about that. i think you have already stated that you don't think any of the groups is legitimate.


and you make such a vitriolic junky response?
it's my opinion. it's a theory--the more attacks and slander that are dumped on a group of lds, the higher the probability that it's the correct group. if you disagree with my theory, that's okay, you can say you disagree with it.


Please DARKEN the part of this HONEST QUESTION that you think is "hatred."
you blew it when you tried to interpret what i said. i was referring to the amount of hatred that is directed at lds groups, and i definitely wasn't thinking of one specific anti-mormon such as yourself.


Or are you simply lying to cover up the truth that you have no answer?
okay, that's the kind of vitriol i had in mind--the kind where the anti-mormon makes an outright accusation of lying and coverups. thanks for helping my theory gain validation.


Since when is ASKING HONEST QUESTIONS 'vitriol' to anyone other than a person who has something to hide?
what is your home address and phone number and ssn? you give an honest answer to that question...unless you have something to hide.


Now PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION. . .
you are ***uming that your behavior here and at carm is mature enough, and reasonable enough, to deserve an answer to every question you may feel like asking.



There have been over 150+ groups of people who have claimed THEIR version of smith's religion is the 'right one.'
i think that is a reasonably correct statement.


WHY (Or can you simply NOT give an HONEST ANSWER) should anyone consider the utah mormons to be the 'right ones?'
many reasons. here is your first clue:

some of those 150 have ceased to exist. they are extinct, defunct, and no longer exist. it seems to me that's enough evidence that they are out of the running for the ***le of "The Restorationist Church that God wants to exist and thrive in the latter days, right up to the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ."

now, i have given you one reason why some of those 150 groups should be crossed off your list. my reasons seems pretty good to me. if you disagree, give reasons for your disagreement.

you are welcome.


You may keep your 'at***ude' to yourself. I already have one of my own.
yeah, we know. maybe that's why we don't put up with some of your rants.


I am interested in the TRUTH FROM GOD.
and you are asking faithful mormons for it? wow, maybe i misjudged you. i figured you had such animosity towards mormons that we'd be among the last people on earth you'd come to for the truth from God.


NOT your 'opinions' or your 'snide shots,' BUT GOD'S WORD, the BIBLE in any HONEST support of joe smith's religion OR brigham young's religion.
so you are honestly claiming that you honestly want to consider evidence for the claim that of the 150 + groups that have existed, the slc branch of mormonism is the right one, the one that God and Jesus approve of?

if so, then i am impressed. i was thinking that your mind had already been made up, and the thinking done.

[Christian]

cog posted:
Actually, Christian, your mention of the various offshoots of the church are positive for us, not negative, when you turn around and ask how can what we believe be true. While these various offshoots have different beliefs from one another, including from us, the one thing we all have in common is that the Book of Mormon is of God. Not a fabricated God, not a fake Jesus, but the GOD of EVERYONE. You claim that because we KNOW the Book of Mormon is TRUE, that we somehow worship a different God.

Completely false in allmost all of it. Of course all of joe smith's break-offs (including brigham young's group) believe the bom is true and from God. They do have THAT in common.

No, your various 150+ mormon-type religions that apostasized from joe smith's religion is NOT positive for you, but shows YOUR OWN GREAT APOSTASY. You can 'spin' it any way you want, but that does not change.

Baptists, Lutherans, Methodist, etc, all of Protestantism do not share doctrine with each other so that would mean all of their gods are not the same. Since that is true, they worship many different gods from one another and the Bible since the Bible testifies of the one God to us (ONE, not three in one).

Yet your pgp Abraham 4:1ff refers to THREE GODS (plural) instead of the Bible's God which is the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE, not just 'to you' but TO ANYONE.

Let me ask you a couple of questions and remember, if you don't answer it means you're not honest and that you are hiding something. 1) Have you ever asked God in prayer if the Book of Mormon is true?


Yes, I did so, and God responded by His Holy Spirit leading me to p***ages in the Bible that DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED joey smith's writing, or in other words, GOD SAID NO THE BOM IS NOT TRUE.
2) Have you ever asked God if the Bible is true?


Nope. Have YOU? Have YOU ever asked if the Qur'an is true? How about the bagavad Gita? WHY NOT?

Of course GOD never said to learn TRUTH that way, now did He? That was one of joey smith's INVENTIONS.

3) If you believe the Bible is true, is it partly because of evidence?

Yep, TONS OF IT. Of course there IS NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE AT ALL that even ONE person, place or event in the bom ever existed anywhere but in joey smith's mind.

4) Would you still believe in the Bible if all the evidence in the world didn't exist?

Who knows? I don't. You don't. 'What-if's' are NOT REALITY.

BUT

Since the REAL WORLD has all sorts of artifacts from the times of Christ's NT church, but NOT ONE from joey smith's fiction, I believe Jesus Christ and not the fraud, joey.

Now work calls, so I must go.

[Phoenix]

The what if on the last one is very important. You said you believe partly because of evidences. That shows you lack faith which also means your belief in Jesus is rooted in physical evidence, not faith. I don't care about any of the evidences; while they may be interesting to study, they have nothing to do with my belief that the scriptures are true. That belief is through faith that the Holy Ghost did indeed testify that these things are true. You claim God told you the Book of Mormon is false yet you cannot recognize a true spirit from a false one. Evidences for the Book of Mormon do exist, and I can provide many, but they're irrelevant since the things of the Spirit must be understood by the Spirit. Paul taught that we can only know Jesus is the Christ through the Holy Ghost.

That is very true, and very important imo. It's the reason there can be a woman living in a remote village of a 3rd world country, who doesn't have a computer or the internet, and she doesn't know of any archaeological evidences supporting any scriptural claims, yet she is a faithful, valiant disciple of Christ merely because when some missionary taught her the gospel she was humble enough to recognize the HS telling her it is true. and that was all the evidence she needed, and indeed that was the only evidence that really mattered to her....while at the same time, in NYC or LA or D.C., there can be a man living a few blocks away from a fancy museum full of artifacts, and the man can read B.A.R. every month, and can be in the know about the latest discoveries that support some scriptural claims---yet the man is an agnostic, or a lapsed, backsliding Christian, or a greedy, cynical televangelist who doesn't really believe in God and Christ.

How can both of those situations exist at the same time? If humanistic evidence is what makes good Christians, and a total lack of evidence is a bad thing, how can the woman be a good Christian, and the man be a bad one? That is a rhetorical question because the answer should be obvious.

[Christian]

cog posted:
Christian's answer shows how little faith in Jesus Christ he truly has. Christian, you can claim to believe in Jesus and the Bible but the fact that you don't know if you'd believe without the existence of evidence shows that your faith is illegitimate, just circumstantial. This makes any interpretation you give of scripture null and void since you need physical evidence that they are true.

Are you 'reading challenged?' I never once said WHETHER OR NOT I would believe the Bible without the existance of evidence. I said that the SITUATION DOES NOT EXIST so the question is illigitimate.

When we demonstrate a lack of faith in the scriptures we show a lack of that same faith in Christ Jesus. In many instances of the Savior healing people He would say they could be healed IF they had faith in HIM, not have faith because of the physical aftermath of His priesthood service.

There are many instances when Jesus and the Apostles healed (the lame man at the gate comes to mind at once), where the one being healed EXPRESSED NO FAITH IN JESUS AT ALL.
Not for Salvation. Not as Lord or Savior. Just 'Yaaay! I am healed!'

AND NOT ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of "priesthood service" applied to the Apostles OR Jesus at all in the Word of God (the BIBLE). JESUS is said to be a Melchizedek priest. NOBODY ELSE IN THE NT IS EVER said to be part of that priesthood.

But that didn't stop joey smith. . .HE MADE UP A WHOLE RELIGION SURROUNDING HIS MADE-UP VERSION of the Melchizedek priesthood.

Something joey nor you have ever seemed to learn is 'Where God is silent, WE should be silent as well; Where GOD speaks, WE should speak."

ALL you have is where joey smith spoke. NOTHING AT ALL FROM GOD.

[Christian]

cog posted:

The what if on the last one is very important. You said you believe partly because of evidences.

No, I never once said any such thing. I said that your imaginary scenerio doesn't exist so it doesn't need to be addressed.
You seem to be 'reading challenged.

That shows you lack faith which also means your belief in Jesus is rooted in physical evidence, not faith.

God NEVER IN CHRIST-S CHURCH said anything at all about anyone supposed to be having 'BLIND faith.' We are to believe things BECAUSE JESUS (a REAL PERSON) said so, and even HE said repeatedly "for it is written" to give folks valid reference points.


I don't care about any of the evidences; while they may be interesting to study, they have nothing to do with my belief that the scriptures are true.

Then your supposed 'faith' is not from GOD AT ALL.

BIBLICAL Faith (FAITH FROM GOD) comes by hearing the Word of God (not tummy bubbles), and BIBLICAL Faith is:

Heb 11:1-2
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
NKJV

If YOUR 'faith' has no interest in SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE, then YOUR 'faith' IS FROM SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN FROM GOD.

That belief is through faith that the Holy Ghost did indeed testify that these things are true.


IF THAT WERE the Holy Ghost, then WHY DID THE HOLY GHOST TESTIFY TO ME AND TO MANY OTHERS THAT THE BOM WAS NOT FROM GOD AT ALL? Does YOUR 'holy spirit' LIE LIKE THAT?

You claim God told you the Book of Mormon is false yet you cannot recognize a true spirit from a false one. Evidences for the Book of Mormon do exist, and I can provide many

GENUINE evidence is something YOU CANNOT provide. NOT ONE location, NOT ONE genuine artifact telling about EVEN ONE event in your bom ever happening, NOT ONE person, place, or event EVER VERIFIED BY PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.

ALL you have is the IMAGINATION junk in which you have a VESTED INTEREST in clinging to. As to recognizing THE TRUE HOLY SPIRIT, the HOLY SPIRIT I believe AFFIRMS EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE and CONTRADICTS MUCH of what joey smith wrote.

Sorry, but your theory doesn't float. . .

but they're irrelevant since the things of the Spirit must be understood by the Spirit. Paul taught that we can only know Jesus is the Christ through the Holy Ghost.

Not true at all. Paul said no such thing. Paul told us:

Rom 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
NKJV

Your cult lies to you and keeps you following BLIND FAITH in the imaginary religion of joey smith's INVENTION.

I pray for your soul.

[Christian]

confused cog posted:

And everything you said has zero credibility since you don't have real faith.

I have real faith in JESUS CHRIST. Not in your fantasies or in joey smith's either.

The scenario existing or not still shows your faith, or lack thereof.

No, your imaginary scenario shows nothing but an imaginary schenario.

You said it yourself you don't know if you'd believe in the Bible if evidences didn't exist. Your answer showed all of us exactly how you stand with your faith: it's practically nonexistent.

Now you claim I HAVE faith, but not much? "practically" nonexistant?

Changing your tune I see.
You claimed what I said about only knowing Jesus is the Christ by the Holy Ghost isn't true. What I said is directly from the Bible. You just proved you don't believe.

Only in your fantasyland. JESUS said we know (have faith) IN HIM THIS way:
Rom 10:14-17
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!"
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
NKJV


By the WORD OF GOD, NOT by 'blindly believing' and pretending that your tummy bubble is the Holy Spirit (yours lies since he tells different folks that the bom IS true AND OTHER FOLKS that the bom is a LIE)

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
You don't know anything about the Bible. Your 50+ years of so-called Bible study has taught you nothing because you do not allow the Holy Ghost to teach you.

Another false accusation from the accuser of the CHRISTIAN brethren. WE KNOW who that is that you follow. . .

Lying is not a CHRISTIAN activity.

I CANNOT provide evidence for the Book of Mormon? Really dude? Yeah, I can. I've done my research, much more than you ever have. Have you ever studied with me? No. Therefore, you don't know what I can produce and show.

I DO know what you have 'produced' and 'shown' regarding my own faith. Since it is VERY FAR FROM REALITY (you are not God. HE knows I have faith in Him. I know I have faith in Him and His Word, the Bible. YOU seem ready, willing and exhuberant to try PRETEND I believe the opposite of what GOD and I know to be absolutely TRUE, just because you want to play a stupid little 'word-game' to claim I don't have faith.

IF this is indicative of your own "study," it demonstrates NO VALID STUDY AT ALL.

SO IF YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN SHOW EVEN ONE OF THE BOM PERSONS, PLACES OR EVENTS, THEN SHOW US. I'd betcha can't. The ONLY things you can demonstrate that the things smith stole from the KJV BIBLE existed. His MADE-UP JUNK is MADE-UP JUNK, nothing more, IN REALITY.

The difference between you and I is I don't need evidence to have faith, you do. My faith is from the Holy Ghost, the evidences are merely interesting support pieces. Your "faith" is from the evidences and the Holy Ghost takes a back seat to you.

I believe I SHOWED YOU WHAT GOD said. . .

Heb 11:1-2
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
NKJV

I have also shown you THAT GOD SAYS WHERE IT COMES FROM:

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
NKJV

Like I said before, you showed that you don't have faith which means none of your interpretations of the scriptures comes from God, just yourself.

What YOU have shown is that you can try to deceive others, but aren't equipped to do so. IF you want to make the claim that "none of your interpretations of the scriptures comes from God, just yourself"

THEN SHOW US YOUR NEW AND UNIQUE "INTERPERTASHUN" of each of these p***ages.

I myself simply believe them EXACTLY AS THEY ARE WRITTEN. My God does not lie, so He doesn't NEED 'reinterpretation' to make HIS WORDS TRUE.

Sorry about yours.

[Christian]

Your mormon references aren't worth cut-or-pasting.

IF your supposed 'findings' were real, then WHY DO THE SMITHSONIAN INS***UTION AND THE Society for American Archaeology point out that they have NOTHING to connect your bom to REALITY AT ALL?

Just GOOGLE THEM for their statements on mormonism.

FAITH COMES BY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD, not by praying to see if something is 'true.'

Asking if something is the TRUTH is asking for KNOWLEDGE, not faith OR wisdom.

Wisdom is what you do with the KNOWLEDGE you already have.

My son KNOWS that smoking cigarettes causes cancer, but is not WISE enough to quit.

You posted:

I stand by what I said about you not having faith. You don't.

You seem to think you are a god and can know my heart. You may bleat all you want. . .it doesn't change the Fact that I DO have faith, BOTH in the Bible AND in the GOD OF THE BIBLE.

Your slander and junky word-games buy you nothing. They don't change my faith in the Bible OR in the GOD OF THE BIBLE a whit. You may bleat all day, until you turn blue and it changes nothing. And your continued bleating of that absurdity makes you look FAR FROM honest, sincere, OR spiritual in your representation of your religion.

If you are THAT DISHONEST, why should I believe ANYTHING you say?

The "imaginary scenario" I created had a purpose and I accomplished it.

If that imaginary scenario you posed had the purpose of making YOU look less than intelligent, I guess it did.

You said that because evidence does exist, you do not know if you'd believe or not if the evidences didn't exist.

No, I said that because that 'scenario' doesn't exist in reality I have no reason to answer, let alone CONSIDER it.

Should I say that YOU have no faith because you have not read and prayed about Sun Myung Moon's "Divine Principle" which HE claimed came from God and Moon (just like joe smith did) says Jesus FAILED in His trip to the earth. Moon claimed the purpose of God becoming a man was to 'unify the earth.' Smith claimed that Jesus failed when He built a church that could not sustain itself because the Apostles would fail to 'replenish themselves' with other 'mortal apostles' (smith's version of Christ failing)

BOTH SMITH AND MOON WERE LIARS.

Then you went so far to say you weren't going to answer the question because the scenario isn't in reality.

MORE untruth from you. I said I wouldn't answer the question because it wasn't worth contemplating because it was imaginary.

I won't join joey smith's religion for the same reason. . .it isn't worth even contemplating because it is nothing more than smith's IMAGINARY RELIGION.

If you claim to believe so much, why is such a question troubling for you to answer? Your faith isn't there and your belief is very small (they're not the same thing).

No, THEY AREN'T the same thing, but YOU (NOT I) said first that I HAD NO FAITH, THEN YOU (NOT I) said that I had only a 'little' faith. YOU said it, not I. Now you want to lie about it?

You said you've studied for 50+ years but you have nothing but the physical side to show for it.

Oh? I have studied for 50+ years and GOD HAS CHANGED ME DRASTICALLY from what I was before. SPIRITUALLY. JESUS CHRIST (the REAL Jesus, not joey smith's 'spirit-brother-of-satan-jesus') changed me radically. From an angry, short-fused, frustrated, cursing, mocker of Christianity to a person whose life is characterized by THIS:

Gal 5:22-26
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its p***ions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
NKJV

Perhaps YOU should pay attention to verse 26. . .

Oh yes, and do you REALLY think that the fruit of the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD can be the character of a person's life for over 40 years if the Holy Spirit has not CHANGED HIM?

Those who know me, live with me, and have known me for years would LAUGH at you.

You don't understand spiritual things because you are not a spiritual person. If you were, you would be able to answer "Would you believe and have faith if evidence didn't exist?" with a quick yes. I don't need to hesitate or be afraid of the question because my faith is in JESUS CHRIST, the Nazarene.

roman catholics could say the exact same you claim. YOUR faith in the mormon 'jesus' is faith in a FRAUD.

The REAL Jesus was NEVER a 'spirit brother' of any of the angels. HE CREATED THEM.

YOU can't seem to comprehend that.

John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
NKJV


NOW it is UP TO YOU to demonstrate FROM THE BIBLE that Jesus was the 'spirit-brother' of satan.

Of course you cannot since joey smith made it up. BUT JOEY SMITH MADE THE CLAIM. SO DID IT IS UP TO YOU TO PROVE IT. I don't believe joey smith, so it is not up to me.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.

You keep saying we believe in Joseph Smith's version of God. We believe in God, the God described by real Biblical Christianity. We believe in Jesus Christ, the Christ described by real Biblical Christianity. You believe in Constantine and Athanasius' version of God, an ideal adopted from Constantine's prior beliefs: Paganism.

So YOU DON'T believe that a PLURALITY OF GODS EXIST?

Oh, that's right, YOU DO believe that more than one God exists.

You think God LIED when He told us

Isa 43:10
10 "You are My witnesses," says the Lord,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
NKJV

and

Isa 44:6
6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
NKJV

and:

Isa 44:8
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

joey smith lied when he wrote:

He wrote:
(pgp Abraham chapter 4

1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.
5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to p*** that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.
6 And the Gods also said



Of course, the book of abraham that joey smith supposedly 'translated' that from has been shown to be a common funeral document that says no such thing by those who can actually READ the Egyptian characters. . .but that doesn't seem to matter to mormons who would rather claim 'blind faith' in it anyway. . .

Typical heathen fare, the stuff joey smith made up.

If you believe his lies instead of the TRUTH, you will go to Hell.

If you believe the truth, you will leave his heathen religion.

[Christian]

erunder posted:

I have no idea what you're talking about.

OF COURSE you don't. You are wearing blinders (from satan) so that you can only know what you WANT to know, nothing more.


So many lies.

So many contradictions.

Yeah, that's a pretty good description of anti-Mormon propaganda.

A VERY good description of the mormon religion.

[Christian]

cog posted:
See what I mean? Because I'm a Mormon, any evidence that shows the Book of Mormon IS TRUE is ignored and thrown out the window.

No, because the 'evidence' only shows that the mormons THINK it might have meaning. NO REPUTABLE SChOLARS agree with the mormons.

I don't care what the Smithsonian ins***ution says. Evidence is evidence. I gave historical references, not something from a LDS website.

Last I heard your references to the bom etc WERE mormon writings.

In other words, you don't care if the evidence is REAL, just as long as it 'looks good to you.' I see. . .

"Prove this with evidence." Did that so now it's "prove another thing with the Bible" when users on here have already done so, myself included. You asked for evidence and you got it. Deal with it.

The bottom line is the Holy Ghost has told me the Book of Mormon is TRUE and it is from GOD.

AND the bottom line is the REAL Holy Ghost (not the 'strange spirit' that gave you your tummy twitch) tole Me and many others LIKE ME that the book of mormon is A LIE and it is NOT FROM GOD and provided BIBLICAL EVIDENCE that the bom is A LIE and NOT FROM GOD.

And I know the Holy Spirit from God. He does not lie as your 'spirit' does. His prophets are REAL prophets, and when HE makes them prophets, they PROPHESY.

The so-called 'prophets' of mormonism HAVE BEEN IMPOTENT AND UNABLE TO PROPHESY FOR OVER 75 YEARS NOW. THAT can be easily documented to be wrong IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH A VALID PROPHESY from any of them.

So far you have. . .NOTHING. Just like the other cults.