FYI Mormon Trickery

[Grandma]

Mormons like to pretend that those who are not part of the Church of the Firstborn are “saved.”

Well, guess what. Those who are not part of the “Church of the Firstborn” are not with the Father. They never learned the secret handshakes!

D&C 76:54. What Is the Church of the Firstborn?

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. …

“The Lord has made it possible for us to become members of the Church of the Firstborn, by receiving the blessings of the house of the Lord and overcoming all things. Thus we become heirs, ‘priests, and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory,’ who shall ‘dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever,’ with full exaltation.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:41–42.)
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 164

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith, Pearl of Great Price
lds.org

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Mormons like to pretend that those who are not part of the Church of the Firstborn are “saved.”

Well, guess what. Those who are not part of the “Church of the Firstborn” are not with the Father. They never learned the secret handshakes!

D&C 76:54. What Is the Church of the Firstborn?

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. …

“The Lord has made it possible for us to become members of the Church of the Firstborn, by receiving the blessings of the house of the Lord and overcoming all things. Thus we become heirs, ‘priests, and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory,’ who shall ‘dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever,’ with full exaltation.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:41–42.)
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 164

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith, Pearl of Great Price
lds.org

In Christian Love,

Grandma
Again, you haven't a clue of what you are posting....
The Church of the Firstborn, is not the LDS Church, or the Mormon Church as it is most times called.
The Church of the Firstborn is a Heavenly Church per se, for those who have already overcome the world and have become joint heirs with Christ.
In other words, in order to be of the Church of the Firstborn, you would already have had to of been saved first.
Basically your argument is; Mormons believe that those who are a member of the Church of the saved, are saved!
Well that's a no-brainer, even for someone with your beliefs....

[Saxon]

At what point in the Mormon thought is a Mormon saved and can say that they are saved??

[Grandma]

Again, you haven't a clue of what you are posting....
The Church of the Firstborn, is not the LDS Church, or the Mormon Church as it is most times called.
The Church of the Firstborn is a Heavenly Church per se, for those who have already overcome the world and have become joint heirs with Christ.
In other words, in order to be of the Church of the Firstborn, you would already have had to of been saved first.
Basically your argument is; Mormons believe that those who are a member of the Church of the saved, are saved!
Well that's a no-brainer, even for someone with your beliefs....

I know what the Church of the Firstborn is. Its members are resurrected beings who earned eternal life. Salvation, wrongly defined by many Mormons, is not resurrection to separation from God.

Most members of the Mormon church, according to Mormonism, will not spend eternity with God. They don't obey all his commandments and aren't allowed in his presence.

Love,

Grandma

[Grandma]

The Book of Mormon is clear that those not of the church of Jesus Christ are of the church of the devil. I don't know why critics think that's harsh. Its common sense. There's no other church other than the two.

I've been declaring that is Mormon teaching for years and Mormons start arguing with me. Most Mormons don't see the logic.

Luke 11:23
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

The Mormons refer to their church on earth as the kingdom of God on earth. All members belong to "Kingdom of God" but after the Final Judgment only those who obeyed every commandment will be in the Church of the Firstborn which is the highest level of the Mormon's Celestial Kingdom.

Love,

Grandma

[theway]

I know what the Church of the Firstborn is. Its members are resurrected beings who earned eternal life. Salvation, wrongly defined by many Mormons, is not resurrection to separation from God. Really.... where did I say Salvation was is resurrection to separation from God?
Are you now starting to just make things up because all the rest of your other arguments have failed?


Most members of the Mormon church, according to Mormonism, will not spend eternity with God. They don't obey all his commandments and aren't allowed in his presence.

Love,

GrandmaI don't know about "most" but the scriptures allude to about 50% of those who were invited to the Wedding Feast will not be ready when the time comes. You really need to read your Bible sometime.

[Grandma]

Really.... where did I say Salvation was is resurrection to separation from God?
Are you now starting to just make things up because all the rest of your other arguments have failed?

When did I accuse you of saying that? The only people who are saved spend eternity with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Love,

Grandma

[Grandma]

"I will now give my scripture--Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God...that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him is of Antichrist."
Brigham Young, September 9, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176


"...No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, 1956, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 189-190

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

"I will now give my scripture--Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God...that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him is of Antichrist."
Brigham Young, September 9, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176


"...No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, 1956, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 189-190

In Christian Love,

GrandmaI think you'll have to tell us what your point is because I haven't a clue???

[Grandma]

I think you'll have to tell us what your point is because I haven't a clue???

If you check back, you'll see that I wasn't even attempting to give you a clue.

Love,

Grandma

[theway]

If you check back, you'll see that I wasn't even attempting to give you a clue.
Of course not, that is the tactic of someone who does not understand the topic but wants to pretend that they are relevant. You are afraid that if you give out too much information people will find this out.
Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace;
When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive.

The irony is that since you never give us a clue as to how you interpret anything, we do not know whether you are agreeing with us or not?
There are multiple understandings of every quote and scripture you post, and you never give us your understanding of them. Critics love using this tactic because if they are cornered or asked to explain how they can believe the way they do, they will tell us "that's not what I believe!" And continue to not tell us what it is you do believe.
1. There is the interpretation of those to whom the message was originally given.
2. There is the modern orthodox interpretation.
3. There is the Calvanist/OSAS interpretation.
4. There is the worldly nonChristian interpretation.
5. And there is the AntiMormon interpretation which ironically usually always contradict their own beliefs, however as long as it is seen as being against the LDS Church it doesn't matter to you.

Which version did you mean to post?

I agree with the interpretation of those to whom the message was given.... The quotes you listed were taken out of context; if you were to provide the entire quote the message would have been clearer. They were meant for people of the Church who believed in Jesus Christ yet were questioning Joseph Smith. BY was pointing out that you can not say you believe in Jesus Christ while at the same time rejecting Christ's messenger.
I like this interpretation because it also happens to be Biblical.

John 13:20 Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

John 15:20 Jesus says, “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.”

Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

Matt 10:40 "Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me."

[Grandma]

"I will now give my scripture--Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God...that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him is of Antichrist."
Brigham Young, September 9, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176


"...No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, 1956, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 189-190

In Christian Love,

Grandma

I didn't think Mormons were the only ones reading this thread, but I still think this is worth sharing for anyone who is curious (Mormons excluded).

[Grandma]

Of course not, that is the tactic of someone who does not understand the topic but wants to pretend that they are relevant. You are afraid that if you give out too much information people will find this out.
Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace;
When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive.

Thank you.



The irony is that since you never give us a clue as to how you interpret anything, we do not know whether you are agreeing with us or not?
There are multiple understandings of every quote and scripture you post, and you never give us your understanding of them.

Some people love scripture so much that they listen to the Holy Spirit when reading it. Others are just looking for something to argue over.

[theway]

I didn't think Mormons were the only ones reading this thread, but I still think this is worth sharing for anyone who is curious (Mormons excluded).
LOL... Yes, I think it does bear repeating that I said Anti-Mormons will always choose option number 5.


5. And there is the AntiMormon interpretation which ironically usually always contradict their own beliefs, however as long as it is seen as being against the LDS Church it doesn't matter to you.(them)

This is why those who know better call AntiMormons a cult.
Grandma knows that the statement is not unbiblical, this is why she refuses to even tell us what is wrong with the statement.
As I said, an AntiMormon will be quick to take sides with Athiests and profess unbiblical statements just as long as they believe the ends justify the means in their unholy war against all things LDS.

Here are the same statements; only these statements were made by Christ and His Apostles in the Bible. They are saying that you can't reject a Prophet of God while at the same time say you accept Christ. Christ says that if you reject His Apostles and His Prophets, you react Him, and in turn you have rejected The Father.
These are the things AntiMormons do not want you to see.... Kind of ironic isn't it, considering the ***le of this thread.


John 13:20 Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

John 15:20 Jesus says, “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.”

Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

Matt 10:40 "Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me."

[Grandma]

"General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever."
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

That full reconciliation to God is extremely important to me. It is the idea of a personal atonement or reconciliation that can bring me back into the presence of God as one of his covenant sons that appeals to me. That kind of conditional salvation I call exaltation.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.

[theway]

P
"General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever."
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

That full reconciliation to God is extremely important to me. It is the idea of a personal atonement or reconciliation that can bring me back into the presence of God as one of his covenant sons that appeals to me. That kind of conditional salvation I call exaltation.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.True.... Just as I stated before.

[MickeyS]

"General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever."
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

That full reconciliation to God is extremely important to me. It is the idea of a personal atonement or reconciliation that can bring me back into the presence of God as one of his covenant sons that appeals to me. That kind of conditional salvation I call exaltation.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.

Do you believe those who didn't accept Jesus Christ or His gospel will suffer in Hell for eternity? If you do, than our beliefs are already more merciful than yours. Of course there are going to be different levels of salvation...everybody isn't going to be the same! For Heavens Sake, it just makes sense that people will receive the level that they not only earned, but that they are probably most comfortable with. You are under the continued mistaken impression that if you are not a card carrying member of the LDS church in the short years you are on this earth, when you die, you will not be eligible for exaltation, that's it, end of story. That wouldn't be fair now would it? I have a STRONG testimony that those who are faithful believers in Christ while they were on this earth, will be jumping at the opportunity to accept the gospel and the ordinances that were performed on their behalf. Again...if you don't believe in that....it won't matter know will it? But you can't keep painting the church to be this intolerant sanctimonious holier-than-thou organization when we believe you receive chance after chance after chance...and it doesn't end with this mortal life. What other church believes that? Please tell me. Yes...there are requirements and WORK you have to do to progress to the level that you will be back in the presence of the Lord, and yes, that is completely reasonable because we are NOT supposed to be en***led brats who don't have to do anything to receive everything.

[alanmolstad]

[B]"

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.
This is correct....

Well spoke!

[Grandma]

Do you believe those who didn't accept Jesus Christ or His gospel will suffer in Hell for eternity? If you do, than our beliefs are already more merciful than yours. Of course there are going to be different levels of salvation...everybody isn't going to be the same! For Heavens Sake, it just makes sense that people will receive the level that they not only earned, but that they are probably most comfortable with. You are under the continued mistaken impression that if you are not a card carrying member of the LDS church in the short years you are on this earth, when you die, you will not be eligible for exaltation, that's it, end of story. That wouldn't be fair now would it? I have a STRONG testimony that those who are faithful believers in Christ while they were on this earth, will be jumping at the opportunity to accept the gospel and the ordinances that were performed on their behalf. Again...if you don't believe in that....it won't matter know will it? But you can't keep painting the church to be this intolerant sanctimonious holier-than-thou organization when we believe you receive chance after chance after chance...and it doesn't end with this mortal life. What other church believes that? Please tell me. Yes...there are requirements and WORK you have to do to progress to the level that you will be back in the presence of the Lord, and yes, that is completely reasonable because we are NOT supposed to be en***led brats who don't have to do anything to receive everything.


Facts matter more that false doctrine. Heaven doesn't have levels. The only people there have the righteousness of Christ. If they don't, they aren't there. If they have the righteousness of Christ they're equals. Works don't earn you anything.

Non-Mormons do NOT receive chance after chance. Who gave you that idea? It isn't Mormon doctrine. Eternal life is a gift from God to those who received his mercy. No one deserves His mercy; that's why it's called mercy. I'm going to fall on my face when I see God because He showed me such mercy.

Love,

Grandma

[MickeyS]

I
Facts matter more that false doctrine. Heaven doesn't have levels. The only people there have the righteousness of Christ. If they don't, they aren't there. If they have the righteousness of Christ they're equals. Works don't earn you anything.

Non-Mormons do NOT receive chance after chance. Who gave you that idea? It isn't Mormon doctrine. Eternal life is a gift from God to those who received his mercy. No one deserves His mercy; that's why it's called mercy. I'm going to fall on my face when I see God because He showed me such mercy.


Oh my word, you really believe God went through ALL this effort in creating a world, creating humans, sending us through a mortal experience, sacrificing His son to test us to determine whether we return to His presence and its both exceedingly simple "Just believe in Christ" and infinitely harsh "In this short human span of your life, regardless of your circumstances, if haven't accepted Jesus Christ by the time you die, you go to hell". That's terrible, but of course you're ok with it because you're one of the "saved" ones, but it doesn't bother you about the intolerant ETERNAL fate of your fellow man?? And that seriously makes sense to you? So you seriously believe in being an en***led spoiled child that doesn't have to do anything but think happy thoughts about Jesus to go to Heaven, and someone who was raised in a family that didn't have exposure to the teachings of Christ, didn't live long enough or had other extenuating circumstances is just banned from Heaven for eternity? Please tell me that doesn't make you sick. That literally just made my stomach twist. Don't you care about other people? And Who told you "non-Mormons" don't get chances to accept the Gospel?

[Grandma]

I

Oh my word, you really believe God went through ALL this effort in creating a world, creating humans, sending us through a mortal experience, sacrificing His son to test us to determine whether we return to His presence and its both exceedingly simple "Just believe in Christ" and infinitely harsh "In this short human span of your life, regardless of your circumstances, if haven't accepted Jesus Christ by the time you die, you go to hell". That's terrible, but of course you're ok with it because you're one of the "saved" ones, but it doesn't bother you about the intolerant ETERNAL fate of your fellow man?? And that seriously makes sense to you? So you seriously believe in being an en***led spoiled child that doesn't have to do anything but think happy thoughts about Jesus to go to Heaven, and someone who was raised in a family that didn't have exposure to the teachings of Christ, didn't live long enough or had other extenuating circumstances is just banned from Heaven for eternity? Please tell me that doesn't make you sick. That literally just made my stomach twist. Don't you care about other people? And Who told you "non-Mormons" don't get chances to accept the Gospel?

It's not my idea to have people love sin more than God, but I see it all around me. God's decisions don't make me sick. People's blindness in mocking God is what's sickening. I care a lot about sinners, but that doesn't make them want to stop sinning. I'm kind to them and they go on their merry ways because they LOVE darkness. I was raised in a family that didn't love God. My grandparents didn't love God. My siblings are flaming liberals. My mother is bent on revenge. I'm blessed that God wanted me to read His word. I'm blessed that I'm still alive (2 siblings died of cancer; 2 are slowly killing themselves) and can read God's word more every day. I don't deserve salvation; neither does anyone else. Humans are sinful and yes, it's sad. I'm blessed because I can talk to Mormons and be insulted by them and not feel angry towards them. I'm a servant of Christ; why do you think I'm a spoiled child?

Will answer your question about second chances in another post.

Love,

Grandma

[MickeyS]

It's not my idea to have people love sin more than God, but I see it all around me. God's decisions don't make me sick. People's blindness in mocking God is what's sickening. I care a lot about sinners, but that doesn't make them want to stop sinning. I'm kind to them and they go on their merry ways because they LOVE darkness. I was raised in a family that didn't love God. My grandparents didn't love God. My siblings are flaming liberals. My mother is bent on revenge. I'm blessed that God wanted me to read His word. I'm blessed that I'm still alive (2 siblings died of cancer; 2 are slowly killing themselves) and can read God's word more every day. I don't deserve salvation; neither does anyone else. Humans are sinful and yes, it's sad. I'm blessed because I can talk to Mormons and be insulted by them and not feel angry towards them. I'm a servant of Christ; why do you think I'm a spoiled child?

Will answer your question about second chances in another post.


First of all, I came here to have discussions and was immediately insulted, and you continue to do so, I'm just responding. It's interesting that you say you don't deserve salvation but you expect it without putting forth any effort. That's what I meant by likening it to a spoiled child. I'm not talking about "sinners" I'm talking about someone who didn't get an opportunity to be exposed to Christs teachings. What do you think of them? And do you believe a loving parent would submit a child to an eternity of endless torment for not understanding or making mistakes? I apologize if I have come across as being insulting, I've been on the defensive, you don't see ANY good in what I believe...its mind boggling, I apologize, I will attempt to not behave that way.

[Grandma]

I
And Who told you "non-Mormons" don't get chances to accept the Gospel?

I said they don't get multiple chances ("chance after chance") according to Mormon leaders.



..."Now is the time and the day of your salvation," Amulek said. "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .... For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." (Alma 34:31-35; 2 Ne. 9:27; 3 Ne. 28:34; Luke 9:62.)

An application of this law is seen in the words of the resurrected Christ to the Nephites. "Therefore come unto me and be ye saved," he said in repeating with some variations the Sermon on the Mount he had previously given the Jews, "for verily I say unto you, that except ye shall keep my commandments, which I have commanded you at this time, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (3 Ne. 12:20.) Thus salvation was forever denied those Nephites unless they gained it by virtue of their obedience during mortality. On the same basis, there is no such thing as salvation for the dead for the Latter-day Saints who have been taught the truths of salvation and had a fair and just opportunity to live them.

Those who have a fair and just opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and who do not do it, but who then do accept it when they hear it in the spirit world will go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom. This includes those to whom Noah preached. "These are they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it." (D. & C. 76:72-74.)

Thus the false and heretical doctrine that people who fail to live the law in this life (having had an opportunity so to do) will have a further chance of salvation in the life to come is a soul-destroying doctrine, a doctrine that lulls its adherents into carnal security and thereby denies them a hope of eternal salvation. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 181-196.)

Second Chance Theory, Bruce R. McCinkie

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

[alanmolstad]

I said they don't get multiple chances ("chance after chance") according to Mormon leaders.



..."Now is the time and the day of your salvation," Amulek said. "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .... For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." (Alma 34:31-35; 2 Ne. 9:27; 3 Ne. 28:34; Luke 9:62.)

An application of this law is seen in the words of the resurrected Christ to the Nephites. "Therefore come unto me and be ye saved," he said in repeating with some variations the Sermon on the Mount he had previously given the Jews, "for verily I say unto you, that except ye shall keep my commandments, which I have commanded you at this time, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (3 Ne. 12:20.) Thus salvation was forever denied those Nephites unless they gained it by virtue of their obedience during mortality. On the same basis, there is no such thing as salvation for the dead for the Latter-day Saints who have been taught the truths of salvation and had a fair and just opportunity to live them.

Those who have a fair and just opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and who do not do it, but who then do accept it when they hear it in the spirit world will go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom. This includes those to whom Noah preached. "These are they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it." (D. & C. 76:72-74.)

Thus the false and heretical doctrine that people who fail to live the law in this life (having had an opportunity so to do) will have a further chance of salvation in the life to come is a soul-destroying doctrine, a doctrine that lulls its adherents into carnal security and thereby denies them a hope of eternal salvation. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 181-196.)

Second Chance Theory, Bruce R. McCinkie

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.


It is fun to find someone on the forum that knows so much on these topics...

[Grandma]

It is fun to find someone on the forum that knows so much on these topics...

It's a relief to have you show up now and then. I was tired and put Monson's name in a post instead of Hinckley's and theway started jumping all over me. Well, that's nothing compared to the way some Muslim women are treated or Christians in the Middle East and Africa.

[Grandma]

First of all, I came here to have discussions and was immediately insulted, and you continue to do so, I'm just responding. It's interesting that you say you don't deserve salvation but you expect it without putting forth any effort.

I have salvation. I'm not a spoiled child. Do you always call Christ's servants spoiled children? I didn't expect salvation --- what person would in my circumstances? I could write a book and you'd probably be in shock but I'm not going to put my life story on the internet.


That's what I meant by likening it to a spoiled child. I'm not talking about "sinners" I'm talking about someone who didn't get an opportunity to be exposed to Christs teachings. What do you think of them? And do you believe a loving parent would submit a child to an eternity of endless torment for not understanding or making mistakes?

Why do you want to call sin "not understanding or making a mistake?" God is a loving parent to His children. Those who want to follow Satan are Satan's children. Our God is omniscient. He knows the hearts of every human being. No matter what your missionaries or ours tell some people, those people won't convert. Do you remember the story of Noah and the flood? God destroyed a lot of wicked people. Some people won't come to any Christian church no matter what denomination it is. God intervenes and has mercy on some.


I apologize if I have come across as being insulting, I've been on the defensive, you don't see ANY good in what I believe...its mind boggling, I apologize, I will attempt to not behave that way.

Am I insulting you? I'm profoundly sorry. I actually like this post of yours and it's changing my mind about you. I thought you came here for the sole purpose of attacking me. After all, I'm pretty much alone here, but God is always with me.

Love,

Grandma

[MickeyS]

I said they don't get multiple chances ("chance after chance") according to Mormon leaders.



..."Now is the time and the day of your salvation," Amulek said. "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .... For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." (Alma 34:31-35; 2 Ne. 9:27; 3 Ne. 28:34; Luke 9:62.)

An application of this law is seen in the words of the resurrected Christ to the Nephites. "Therefore come unto me and be ye saved," he said in repeating with some variations the Sermon on the Mount he had previously given the Jews, "for verily I say unto you, that except ye shall keep my commandments, which I have commanded you at this time, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (3 Ne. 12:20.) Thus salvation was forever denied those Nephites unless they gained it by virtue of their obedience during mortality. On the same basis, there is no such thing as salvation for the dead for the Latter-day Saints who have been taught the truths of salvation and had a fair and just opportunity to live them.

Those who have a fair and just opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and who do not do it, but who then do accept it when they hear it in the spirit world will go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom. This includes those to whom Noah preached. "These are they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it." (D. & C. 76:72-74.)

Thus the false and heretical doctrine that people who fail to live the law in this life (having had an opportunity so to do) will have a further chance of salvation in the life to come is a soul-destroying doctrine, a doctrine that lulls its adherents into carnal security and thereby denies them a hope of eternal salvation. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 181-196.)

Second Chance Theory, Bruce R. McCinkie

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.


I had a while response completely penned and lost it, perhaps for the best. You cited things I'd already said, I erred in the "chance after chance" I got worked up, was thinking more of the atonement in general, it doesn't matter.

This turn in the conversation has made me realize that these truly are the days of my probation here on earth, and I can't be spending my time here doing this...this is non productive and is producing a combative and contentious spirit that I know The Savior would not agree with. I have realized through perusing these comments that I am even more thankful for my testimony and the knowledge I have, and I truly love my fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, I don't want to convey anything but love and respect for others. May the Savior's love be with you. I know you are very set in your beliefs, but I do pray your desire to discredit a belief system doesn't become more important than questing for true knowledge. I mean that with complete sincerity. May your heart and your mind be open.

With love,
Dawn

[Grandma]

I had a while response completely penned and lost it, perhaps for the best. You cited things I'd already said, I erred in the "chance after chance" I got worked up, was thinking more of the atonement in general, it doesn't matter.

This turn in the conversation has made me realize that these truly are the days of my probation here on earth, and I can't be spending my time here doing this...this is non productive and is producing a combative and contentious spirit that I know The Savior would not agree with. I have realized through perusing these comments that I am even more thankful for my testimony and the knowledge I have, and I truly love my fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, I don't want to convey anything but love and respect for others. May the Savior's love be with you. I know you are very set in your beliefs, but I do pray your desire to discredit a belief system doesn't become more important than questing for true knowledge. I mean that with complete sincerity. May your heart and your mind be open.

With love,
Dawn

Believe me, the Bible is my favorite book and my favorite way to spend time and find more truth. My heart and mind are open to the word of God. I only want to discredit heresies and that's why I'm here. I just don't understand why so many online Mormons are hateful, particularly when they come to Christian sites voluntarily. I know that your idea of true knowledge is Mormonism; I know too much about it to ever change my views. I am grateful for my testimony of the Savior and God's word. It was nice getting to know you a little better.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[alanmolstad]

It's a relief to have you show up now and then.



I was tired and put Monson's name in a post instead of Hinckley's





and theway started jumping all over me. W.



The "Mormon stuff"is not really my field of interest...

I post the most on other topics that come and go around here as time goes on....







I also screw up the names of people here from time to time, its not a big deal....
People understand that this all takes place on a dead, computer screen that only involves dry text on our screens, and so its not like we can hear a personal voice and stuff that would help keep straight who is talking and who said what...



As for that last part?
I give people plenty of chances around here, but from time to time I also have learned that you have to set an example too for how you demand people to act if they want their words to appear on your screen...
and so, you have to toss the bad apples out of the basket from time to time.

this forum has a setting called IGNORE, and it allows you to ban people from having their text appear on your computer screen.
Trust me, you are about the only one dealing with these people as much as you do,so being put on your IGNORE LIST would be enough to cause any trouble makers to give pause to what they say to you,and how they say it, for without you to talk to they would have zero reason to come to this forum anymore...LOL

I warn people of this and that usually gets them to straighten-up fly right, but some people you got to give the boot to and forget about...

[Grandma]

The "Mormon stuff"is not really my field of interest...

I post the most on other topics that come and go around here as time goes on....







I also screw up the names of people here from time to time, its not a big deal....
People understand that this all takes place on a dead, computer screen that only involves dry text on our screens, and so its not like we can hear a personal voice and stuff that would help keep straight who is talking and who said what...



As for that last part?
I give people plenty of chances around here, but from time to time I also have learned that you have to set an example too for how you demand people to act if they want their words to appear on your screen...
and so, you have to toss the bad apples out of the basket from time to time.

this forum has a setting called IGNORE, and it allows you to ban people from having their text appear on your computer screen.
Trust me, you are about the only one dealing with these people as much as you do,so being put on your IGNORE LIST would be enough to cause any trouble makers to give pause to what they say to you,and how they say it, for without you to talk to they would have zero reason to come to this forum anymore...LOL

I warn people of this and that usually gets them to straighten-up fly right, but some people you got to give the boot to and forget about...

Hey, thanks for the info!

[theway]

It's a relief to have you show up now and then. I was tired and put Monson's name in a post instead of Hinckley's and theway started jumping all over me. Well, that's nothing compared to the way some Muslim women are treated or Christians in the Middle East and Africa.
I "started jumping all over you"????

I first noticed your mistake and recognized your trap two weeks ago and decided not to say anything. That's because I saw it as a honest mistake from someone who obviously doesn't know much about our Church.... So I let it go...

9/1/2015
Are you following the Jesus President Monson follows?

In Christian Love,

Grandma


I only said something after you kept on making the same mistake two weeks latter... That's when I knew it wasn't because you were tired, or because you made a simple typo.

If you are going to claim you know more than Mormons about their own religion, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard.

[Grandma]

I "started jumping all over you"????

I first noticed your mistake and recognized your trap two weeks ago and decided not to say anything. That's because I saw it as a honest mistake from someone who obviously doesn't know much about our Church.... So I let it go...

9/1/2015


I only said something after you kept on making the same mistake two weeks latter... That's when I knew it wasn't because you were tired, or because you made a simple typo.

If you are going to claim you know more than Mormons about their own religion, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard.

I didn't keep on making the same mistake because I didn't keep on reading and posting to that thread. I posted on September first and didn't post again until September fifteenth.

I know PLENTY about the church you're part of. If you were my age, you'd be sleepy sometimes, too. I never said, "I know more about the Mormon religion than any Mormon does." You just made a BIG mistake. Maybe you're old and tired. Sometimes I know some things about Mormonism that some Mormons don't know. I know that you are judgmental and looking for ANY excuse to discredit me. It won't work because I'm an honest person.

People can go to lds.org and find most of the information I post.

Love,

Grandma

[Grandma]

I just noticed this that you said....I have to share my feelings on the matter because I, on the other hand, have no idea what to think about you. You claim honesty and love, but your sole purpose seems to be to lure in those of the LDS faith with "questions" you already believe you have the answers to with the sole purpose of condemning their faith and then you accuse the LDS religion of condemning and vilifying the faith of others. That's not accurate. If every Christian sect believed the same exact thing, there wouldn't be so many sects! To claim you are being altruistic and loving in pointing out the "heresy" of the LDS religion because it teaches doctrine contrary to what you believe does not seem to be honest at all. You do not come across as kind and loving. You come across as insincere, condescending and contentious. You purposefully use your time to bait members into arguments and then sit back and say you don't understand why they're upset when your purpose was to upset them. What other goal could you possibly have? It seems there are two types of people who visit this forum 1-those who strongly believe in the LDS church and 2-those who vehemently disagree with the LDS church. So pointing out everything we're "wrong" about only brings a spiteful contentious spirit, and you have to know that, because nobody responding in this forum is swayed by your attacks, IT ONLY BRINGS NEGATIVITY AND CONTENTION. There's nothing positive about this. You can say the words "love" with your mouth, but if you do things contrary to the spirit of love and comp***ion, it becomes dangerous lip service. You must know the Lord can see into your heart, He knows what your intentions are here, and they do not seem loving at all. (In my observation) And it doesn't seem sincere the way you present yourself and you start these threads with "innocent" little questions like you're curious about what the LDS church teaches but you only want someone to answer so you can pounce on them and tear apart anything they say. I fell for it too, and I allowed myself to become upset because of it and in turn I become somebody I didn't like. I have NEVER belittled or used derogatory comments about another's beliefs before (like I did with the Trinity) and that made me sick. its been bothering me all day as a matter of fact and I had to say something so I can hopefully put it behind me. What I do know that has gone out if this experience is that I feel even stronger about my testimony than before, and I am so thankful for the knowledge I have. I actually hope I'm wrong and you truly do have good intentions, but I think there's got to be a better way to accomplish your goal that doesn't invite a bitter and spiteful spirit, but only you and God know what's in your heart, I'm just sharing what's in mine and what I have experienced in this situation, because I honestly didn't come in here looking to attack anyone....I was just trying to share my beliefs. (And I even got so riled up I made comments that didn't accurately convey what I know...and I kind of felt that was intended as well) like I said, I hope I'm wrong, and I know I already said this once, but I really won't be part of this....whatever this is...anymore. I just needed to get this out. I do feel for you, and I'm finding myself praying for you, I know that doesn't mean anything to you...but my heart goes out to you, I just...sigh

Why did you come to a Christian site to share your beliefs? If you want to make converts it seems you would go back to your church's methods of doing that.

Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 11:29-30

“For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

“Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Mormons who like to argue come to Christian sites for the sake of argument.

I'm sorry that you allow yourself to have such negative opinions of people who disagree with you, and then try to blame it on the other person.

[dberrie2000]

Mormons like to pretend that those who are not part of the Church of the Firstborn are “saved.”

Well, guess what. Those who are not part of the “Church of the Firstborn” are not with the Father. They never learned the secret handshakes!

And probably not their new name either:

Revelation 2:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Isaiah 18:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he ****eth a trumpet, hear ye.

[dberrie2000]

Why did you come to a Christian site to share your beliefs?

One question--when you state "Christian"--are you referring to the faith alone theology, which preaches a salvation through a faith without works--or the true Christianity of the Biblical text?

[MickeyS]

Why did you come to a Christian site to share your beliefs? If you want to make converts it seems you would go back to your church's methods of doing that.

Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 11:29-30

“For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

“Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Mormons who like to argue come to Christian sites for the sake of argument.

I'm sorry that you allow yourself to have such negative opinions of people who disagree with you, and then try to blame it on the other person.

Because I am Christian and am interested in finding out what others believe, if I misunderstood your intentions, I apologize. I'm not looking to convert, just as I don't think you are either (but I may be wrong about that) I have negative opinions of deliberate contention...for the sake of contention only, especially on a Christian site, if that is not your intention, I apologize....again.

[Grandma]

Mormon trickery is to ask prospective members to read and pray about the Book of Mormon all the while inviting them to church meetings and functions and inviting them to be baptized. Instead of starting at the beginning of the Book of Mormon, I think they should go straight to 1 Nephi 14:24-29, second they should read Abraham 3, 4, and 5, and then pick up the Doctrine and Covenants.

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29

“We will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them.”
Abraham 3:24-25

And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the GODS said: We will CAUSE them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Abraham 4:28

Love,

Grandma

[dberrie2000]

At what point in the Mormon thought is a Mormon saved and can say that they are saved??

Saxon--the LDS believe all of mankind are saved, through Christ's Atonement--from physical death, through the resurrection--and from the condemnation brought to all mankind by virtue of the Fall--as a free gift to all mankind:

Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all of mankind, by virtue of the Atonement--have the opportunity to inherit eternal life, because of the Atonement.

Whether we inherit His grace unto eternal life, as a personal reception--depends on our obedience to the Redeemer:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

[Saxon]

Saxon--the LDS believe all of mankind are saved, through Christ's Atonement--from physical death, through the resurrection--and from the condemnation brought to all mankind by virtue of the Fall--as a free gift to all mankind:

If it is a free gift then you can’t gain it by working for it. If it is obtained by works it is earned and therefore not a free gift. We are saved through faith, not through Christ's Atonement or resurrection. (See Ephesians 2:8) It is God that saves us as a free gift because Christ satisfied God’s justice and payed for our sins. Works do not get you saved, you do the works because you are saved. (See Ephesians 2:10)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




Whether we inherit His grace unto eternal life, as a personal reception--depends on our obedience to the Redeemer:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The only obedience required for salvation is believing in Christ, then God saves you by his grace as a free gift. Because, clearly it is not of works. (See Ephesians 2:9) After you are saved you do works. (See Ephesians 2:10)

[dberrie2000]

Saxon--the LDS believe all of mankind are saved, through Christ's Atonement--from physical death, through the resurrection--and from the condemnation brought to all mankind by virtue of the Fall--as a free gift to all mankind:

Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all of mankind, by virtue of the Atonement--have the opportunity to inherit eternal life, because of the Atonement.

Whether we inherit His grace unto eternal life, as a personal reception--depends on our obedience to the Redeemer:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


If it is a free gift then you can’t gain it by working for it.

True--or by having faith in it. It was a free gift to all men. And it came upon all men when Christ finished it. Done. Over. Complete. All men now have the opportunity to inherit eternal life, because of His Atonement and resurrection.


We are saved through faith, not through Christ's Atonement or resurrection. (See Ephesians 2:8)

It is through the Atonement and resurrection that all men might be saved. Without that--all men would remain condemned--and a slave to death and hell. Christ conquered death and hell for all men--as it relates to the Fall. If man does not obey Christ--then they suffer the second death.


It is God that saves us as a free gift because Christ satisfied God’s justice and payed for our sins.

God saved all of mankind from the automatic condemnation which befell all men due to the Fall. Now, we answer for our own sins--and not Adam's.

Whether we inherit eternal life--as a personal reception--is in accordance with obedience to the Redeemer's conditions:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;



Works do not get you saved,

It's God's grace that saves one unto life.

The question remains--who does God extend this grace to? If the scriptures are correct--to those who obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[Phoenix]

Hi dberrie, good to see you here.

[dberrie2000]

Hi dberrie, good to see you here.

Morning, Phoenix. I find it fun to exchange here. Time is limited--I take care of my mother now, and my wife's mother.

[Phoenix]

Morning, Phoenix. I find it fun to exchange here. Time is limited--I take care of my mother now, and my wife's mother.

I know people who care for parents, so I know that must be a big sacrifice for you.

[dberrie2000]

I know people who care for parents, so I know that must be a big sacrifice for you.

Thanks, Phoenix. It's rewarding in a lot of ways--and it allows me to feel I might be worth something.

[Berean]

True--or by having faith in it. It was a free gift to all men. And it came upon all men when Christ finished it. Done. Over. Complete. All men now have the opportunity to inherit eternal life, because of His Atonement and resurrection.

Nonsense

The Mormon Christ's atonement is conditional on your ability to overcome your sins, and his ability to overcome sin, is what allows you to be raised to "eternal life," but you are still responsible for your sins after that. You must overcome them, meaning you must stop sinning, in this lifetime, or Mormon grace, whatever that is, does not apply to you. You are toast. The Mormon's are careful in their wording how they describe the atonement, because the Mormon Christ does not atone for your sins. His atonement only raises you to eternal life, and you're on your own after that, and you will remain in the last state you were in at death.. either in sin or sinless. And since Mormon doctrine also teaches the depravity of man, there is absolutely no hope that anyone will ever do that.

On the other hand, the Blblical Christ's Atonement DOES forgive the sins of all those who have faith alone in Christ's atoning Work on the Cross. All of our sins are forgiven, past, present and future.



It is through the Atonement and resurrection that all men might be saved. Without that--all men would remain condemned--and a slave to death and hell. Christ conquered death and hell for all men--as it relates to the Fall. If man does not obey Christ--then they suffer the second death.

Nonsense

"Saved" to a Mormon means only eternal life. But if you die in sin, that is the state you remain in. If you do not conquer sin, as the Mormon Christ allegedly did, then you are sealed to Satan for eternity in the lake of fire. (Moroni 10:32; Alma 11:37; 2 Ne 25:23).



God saved all of mankind from the automatic condemnation which befell all men due to the Fall. Now, we answer for our own sins--and not Adam's.

Doublespeak nonsense.

Remember that for a Mormon, being saved means being resurrected from physical death only. You are still judged for your sins, and since the Mormon Christ's atonement does not remove your sins, as the Christian Christ's Atonement does, you are still responsible for paying the penalty for unrepentant sin, which is the second death, or spiritual death.

Spiritual death to a Christian means you have died without having faith in Jesus Christ, and in like manner as Mormons, the second death is eternity in the lake of fire, but for different reasons. For the Christian it is because he lacked faith by not believing that Christ's Atoning Work has paid the penalty for his sin, while for the Mormon it is because he has not overcome his own sin.

To a Mormon, having faith to eternal life does not mean that your sins are forgiven and you will spend an eternity in God's presence. It only means you are raised to an eternal life, in the same state you were last in at death, either sin or sinless. But you are still held responsible for becoming sinless in this lifetime, and you must pay for in the next life, any sins you haven't stopped committing in this one. And none are allowed. Any sin at all and you are guilty of all, and you will not reach the Celestial Kingdom, you will spend eternity with Satan in the lake of fire.

However, eternal life to a Cristian means one's sins have been forgiven. Tor unbelievers, the second death, as with Mormons, means separation from God in the lake of fire. There is only eternal life, for having faith in Christ alone, or eternal death, for forsaking His Sacrifice and relying on your own works, which means separation from God for eternity in the lake of fire.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn't believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Whether we inherit eternal life--as a personal reception--is in accordance with obedience to the Redeemer's conditions:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
And there is only one condition required to obey the entire Gospel. Faith alone.



It's God's grace that saves one unto life.

Nonsense.

But not from your sins. See above.



The question remains--who does God extend this grace to? If the scriptures are correct--to those who obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Nonsense

Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." * John 6:28-29

Who does God extend His grace to? Only those to whom He has chosen and enabled to receive it... the Elect.

Romans 8:28 We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. 29For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.

31What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who didn't spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things? 33Who could bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

[dberrie2000]

The Mormon Christ's atonement is conditional on your ability to overcome your sins,

Cite, please. The Atonement of Jesus Christ is considered a free gift to all men, in the LDS church--as it is in the Biblical text:

Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So--why do the faith alone state one has to accept it? It was a free gift to all men whether any man accepts it or not.

And it "came upon" (past tense) all men when Christ finished it--not when you or I add our faith to it.

If it takes your faith or mine--then it wasn't finished. And if you could add your faith to it--then it would have failed--because it took the perfection of Christ--plus nothing. Anything added to the Atonement of Jesus Christ that is not perfect only insures it's failure.

Christ completed the Atonement--and it succeeded--because it involved only His perfection. And it succeeded when He finished it--not when you or I add our faith to it.

Again--all men--free gift.

Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.