Mormonism “into all the world”

[MichaellS]

.
If the Mormon is here to gather in souls, why does their foot rarely tread outside of this board en***led “Mormonism”? I see a strange inconsistency there.

Mike.
.

[alanmolstad]

a long time ago I noticed the same thing and tried to get the Mormons to post on other topics....

They did not.?

I wrote to a few of the nicer Mormon friends I had here and asked them to join me on other topics as I was interested in seeing how they thought on other topics not related to Mormonism?
They did not post.


Now over the years I have seen a few Mormon posters step off the plantation and post on a few of my topics that were not on the "Mormonism" forum areas, but I also noticed that they only seem to post on topics that have some type of strong connection to a Mormon teachings...
an example , I have seen them post comments on a topic dealing with "marriage" but you find out later that they were just posting to support their views of their Mormon teaching about Marriage after death in their Mormon heaven.


I also have seen them post on a political topic , but only to support the Mormon guy they wanted elected.




why this is so?
You tell me...

[alanmolstad]

a long time ago I noticed the same thing and tried to get the Mormons to post on other topics....

They did not.?

I wrote to a few of the nicer Mormon friends I had here and asked them to join me on other topics as I was interested in seeing how they thought on other topics not related to Mormonism?
They did not post.


Now over the years I have seen a few Mormon posters step off the plantation and post on a few of my topics that were not on the "Mormonism" forum areas, but I also noticed that they only seem to post on topics that have some type of strong connection to a Mormon teachings...
an example , I have seen them post comments on a topic dealing with "marriage" but you find out later that they were just posting to support their views of their Mormon teaching about Marriage after death in their Mormon heaven.


I also have seen them post on a political topic , but only to support the Mormon guy they wanted elected.




why this is so?
You tell me...




Now one of the reasons I came up with as to why they never post outside their "comfort area", Has to do with one of the basics of being a Mormon that most Christians don't understand..

It has to do with the concept of "Freedom"
Basically as a Christian I feel very free to post on any topic, and to comment in any way i want..
I don't even actually have to believe in what im saying at the time, nor do i have to worry that I'm in agreement with other Christians...
heck the question of being in "full agreement" with others just never pops into my mind.

But I once had a private conversation with a Mormon named Fig, (He has now p***ed)and during our private conversation we talked about the way he simply would not allow himself to post on other topics.
And what i remember in his emails was that he simply did not understand the concept of being in a free and open religion the same way i did.
he always felt ...well...for lack of a better word...he felt "pressure" to only show he "conformed" to the views of others....

He also had this one other thing in the back of his mind that was this understanding that he could not allow himself to write on topics that might show he had a different opinion than other Mormons...


i really did not understand what he was saying at the time until I started to teach more the younger students.
Then I noticed that there were always a bunch of kids that were always struggling to match-step with the majority of the cl***, and there were always a few who simply did not care what the majority thought.

The problems come when a person knows he has a different opinion yet hides it away and does not share it out of worry that it might not be well accepted by others.
This leads to a type of "fake" faith in your own religion.
A "fake-ness" about all you pretend to believe in.

In time your religion becomes so fake to even yourself that you just dont allow yourselfto go comment on other topics because you know you would have to fake just more and more answers anyway...

And so they dont...
They hide where the well-known fake answers are all they need to repeat, and they stay away from topics where if they answred honestly they would only be pointing out to everyone including themselves how truly fake their other posts are.

[MichaellS]

a long time ago I noticed the same thing and tried to get the Mormons to post on other topics....

They did not.?

I wrote to a few of the nicer Mormon friends I had here and asked them to join me on other topics as I was interested in seeing how they thought on other topics not related to Mormonism?
They did not post.

Now over the years I have seen a few Mormon posters step off the plantation and post on a few of my topics that were not on the "Mormonism" forum areas, but I also noticed that they only seem to post on topics that have some type of strong connection to a Mormon teachings...
an example , I have seen them post comments on a topic dealing with "marriage" but you find out later that they were just posting to support their views of their Mormon teaching about Marriage after death in their Mormon heaven.

I also have seen them post on a political topic , but only to support the Mormon guy they wanted elected.

why this is so?
You tell me...

Me know? Ha, ain't gonna happen anytime soon I’m afraid. But why in the heck is tw riding you so hard? I think you take the show for effort-at-large, seems like that stands for something above the norm in my book. Thanks for up to speed commentary!

[MichaellS]

LOL...
Actually it's the exact opposite, you rarely see a Mormon step foot on any of these Mormon forums anymore.

Oh, thanks for filling me in on that.


But then, don't be naive, nobody is here to gain souls, even you. Most are here only for the entertainment value. I'm just one of the few that's honest about it. The only way to really do missionary work is one on one. I have converted more people in one month talking to them in person, than all my years on these forums. That's because there is no Spirit of God here whatsoever.

“The only way to really”? Renders it as possible, but then attest “there is no Spirit of God here”.

Confused, is it possible or isn’t it?

I’m obviously outnumbered in the amount of post I have contributed to here, but I still won’t bite on a back-door attempt at His holiness no matter what level of figurative talk used.Maybe I have given you the wrong impression somewhere down the line that would make that kind of remark that doesn’t convert people.

Highly unfortunate don’t you think, that I should right off qualify that as mis-leading.

Thanks for the re.

Mike.

[Erundur]

If the Mormon is here to gather in souls, why does their foot rarely tread outside of this board en***led “Mormonism”?
Probably because he wants to talk about Mormonism, and this is the forum in which to do so.

[alanmolstad]

I think it due to being afraid.

Mormons are not free like Christians are.
Just look at their history to see that and how it has shaped how Mormons act now.

[alanmolstad]

........ But why in the heck is tw riding you so hard?

Hi,
It took me a moment to understand what you was saying in this part of your post.

So let me tell you something that I guess I forgot to bring a few posters up to speed about.

From time to time I run into posters that have a hard time keeping the rules or maintaining themselves with correct manners.(Im sure you run into the same types).
My response to this is to send warnings and or, a Private Message to the other person warning them that they risk being able to have their posted comments read by me in the future.

Most of the time this works.

Most of the time, the other person will realize that because I do post here a lot, and because the number of other posters is few, and the number of other conversations going on without me are....very few, that if they want to be truly part of any future conversations with me then they better change their at***ude, and this will help the other person take the 'hint"and straighten-up and fly right around here.

Most if the time that is all I have to do to get someone to mind their manners .

But not all the time.

My approach to dealing with troublemakers does not always end with a simple warning.

With one or two posters over the last,,,,er...is it 10 years?....I have been forced to open-up my forum settings and add a person's name to my IGNORE LIST.

Yes, I know that's like dropping an H-Bomb on em ...
But it has proved to be a very effective means to clearing the bad posts right off my computer.

It works like a charm.
It always works like a charm too.

and, I warn the other person enough times beforehand that when I do add their names to my IGNORE LIST , I know its only after its clear to everyone on the whole forum that the other person really does not give a rip and had no real desire to talk to me anyway in the future.


However, it is true as you have seen, that sometimes the other person (even when they know that I dont read any of their old posts) will try to keep posting to me out of ......er...Im not sure why... But from time to time the IGNORED POSTER will still post to me when they know for 100% that I dont see squat of their posts?....

99% of the time I dont know they are still doing this and so I dont get a chance to point out how sad this makes them appear to me to be.

But like I said, most of the times I never know thats still going on but some times I do catch them at it.

This seems to be one such case....

I have the poster "TW" on my IGNORE LIST for bad behavior .
So from time to time people will ask me "Why do you let that guy get away with that?"and my answer is to just say the following-
"I dont care, nor even have the slightest interest in the posts of "TW""

[MickeyS]

First of all, no offense to you at all, but I have not seen any attempt by anyone here to "gather in souls", I myself am not here personally to convert. I stumbled upon this forum quite on accident and frequent the board to make corrections to extreme errors in my faith. Why do I do this? I am unsure as to what end I propose this will come to, but I feel the purpose of this particular section of this forum has been to, well....belittle the beliefs of others. I'm not sure if it was originally designed for that, but one is to only look back on any recent threads that have been started to see that's what it's become. And it is not only allowed but encouraged. As long as it disagrees with Mormonism, literally ANYTHING goes.

I have a good inkling that members of the church come here to correct inaccuracies....or perhaps some for the "entertainment" factor as mentioned, though I don't necessarily see the latter in me, unless frustration is supposed to be entertaining. But as theway mentioned, I don't believe true conversion would comes through this forum, and I don't know if many Mormons come here for that specific purpose. But I could be wrong, I wouldn't begin to state as fact what the intentions of others are,I'm merely speaking from my experience and what I have noticed.

I have been guilty of getting caught up in the "pride game" myself here from time to time, in defense of my faith. I get upset sometimes with the contempt displayed, I am aware, and I own that. But originally I kept coming back to make sure anyone who stumbled upon this forum in the future, perhaps looking for information about my faith, would be able to see the error in the accusations that are continually made about the things I believe and hold dear. I would like to believe that's always still the case, but like I said, my pride can get the best of me from time to time, I try to keep that in check. But I certainly don't feel a strong spirit of conversion here from any angle. The negativity and contention is far too strong IMO.

Even now, all a certain person has to do is insult and belittle me and other members of the church in order to get responses. It would be said that it is not done to get a rise or response from anyone, but that one simply finds "enjoyment" in it. That personally seems to me a terrible thing to "enjoy" doing, but, if it's true, to each their own I suppose. I still wonder if the former isn't more accurate, but either way....I don't see a "grand purpose" or "higher calling" here. It has been confirmed that it is just a place to post whatever thoughts come to mind. Unless you're Mormon, then there's also a list of rules that go along with it.

I personally was unaware that there is activity in any of the other areas here, when I first found the forum I perused other sections and found threads that had been dead for many many months. That could be different now, I haven't looked around for awhile. But since I haven't had a positive experience with any one non-Mormon member here, I feel no desire to engage in other discussion.

But still, I have tried...just tried again a week or so ago, to find out more about someone's beliefs, and as always, the only response I receive is more disdainful commentary about my church, when I hadn't even brought up the doctrine I believe...I was just trying to make sense of what THEY believe to attempt to see where their core beliefs lie. Of course it comes from inconsistencies between my beliefs and theirs, or why else would I ask? So there's always going to be an element of my beliefs in the discussion, to expect there not to be would be disingenuous. My beliefs are an integral part of who I am, and that effects how I see everything else.

So basically, since I'm marked as a "Mormon", my experience here thus far has shown that further participation in any other discussion will only be met with this same disdain. So what would the point in that be?

Maybe if this forum truly was a place that others can freely exchange ideas and beliefs, I would take the time....but when you label this section as "non-Christian cults" right out of the gate, you are effectively and negatively judging every person with a specific belief system, expecting them to "conform" to a specific "box" as it were. I personally won't conform to the labels others give me. The only Being I have to worry about is my Father in Heaven, and I am unafraid and quite certain of how He sees me.

Now MY question is ...

If there are "Christians" here to "gather in souls", why do they feel the need to treat their fellow human beings with such contempt without even knowing them? You only need to read a previous response in this very thread to gage the opinion of another towards me as a person, simply because I'm "Mormon" and it's certainly not positive, accurate, or at all fair. It was also a completely unnecessary attack, what was that all about anyway? Again, no personal offense to you, but I do find it odd that one person personally attacks and judges an ENTIRE group of people and the only attack that's noticed or mentioned is what one person says about another one person?

It seems to me, the only outreach here is only to others who believe as they do, which is completely contrary to the comment that "Christians" don't feel the need to "conform". When it certainly seems to me there are some who expect others to completely be conformed to what they believe to fit in their "box", or they are treated as "less than" and ridiculed because of. Not just disagreed with, but belittled. Again see the previous comment here to see what I mean. Unless all that was supposed to be complimentary or a kind observation.

Now when I say "Christians", I of course am only talking about the "Christians" I have directly had contact with here. I am not speaking of you or any other person I haven't spoken with as of yet. I'm sure this can't be the views of every non-Mormon who frequents this site, so my sincere apologies to anyone who takes unwarranted offense to that. But it is what I have experienced with every single non-Mormon Christian I have directly interacted with here. And it seems to be the way the forum itself is labeled.

So I guess I myself have been quite confused as to if this is a place designed for anyone to "gather in souls". I have yet to actually see it myself.

Again, please, no offense to you, I am merely speaking of my personal experiences and observations over the last few months.

[alanmolstad]

a very large post

[MichaellS]

First of all, no offense to you at all, but I have not seen any attempt by anyone here to "gather in souls", I myself am not here personally to convert. I stumbled upon this forum quite on accident and frequent the board to make corrections to extreme errors in my faith. Why do I do this? I am unsure as to what end I propose this will come to, but I feel the purpose of this particular section of this forum has been to, well....belittle the beliefs of others. I'm not sure if it was originally designed for that, but one is to only look back on any recent threads that have been started to see that's what it's become. And it is not only allowed but encouraged. As long as it disagrees with Mormonism, literally ANYTHING goes.

I have a good inkling that members of the church come here to correct inaccuracies....or perhaps some for the "entertainment" factor as mentioned, though I don't necessarily see the latter in me, unless frustration is supposed to be entertaining. But as theway mentioned, I don't believe true conversion would comes through this forum, and I don't know if many Mormons come here for that specific purpose. But I could be wrong, I wouldn't begin to state as fact what the intentions of others are,I'm merely speaking from my experience and what I have noticed.

I have been guilty of getting caught up in the "pride game" myself here from time to time, in defense of my faith. I get upset sometimes with the contempt displayed, I am aware, and I own that. But originally I kept coming back to make sure anyone who stumbled upon this forum in the future, perhaps looking for information about my faith, would be able to see the error in the accusations that are continually made about the things I believe and hold dear. I would like to believe that's always still the case, but like I said, my pride can get the best of me from time to time, I try to keep that in check. But I certainly don't feel a strong spirit of conversion here from any angle. The negativity and contention is far too strong IMO.

Even now, all a certain person has to do is insult and belittle me and other members of the church in order to get responses. It would be said that it is not done to get a rise or response from anyone, but that one simply finds "enjoyment" in it. That personally seems to me a terrible thing to "enjoy" doing, but, if it's true, to each their own I suppose. I still wonder if the former isn't more accurate, but either way....I don't see a "grand purpose" or "higher calling" here. It has been confirmed that it is just a place to post whatever thoughts come to mind. Unless you're Mormon, then there's also a list of rules that go along with it.

I personally was unaware that there is activity in any of the other areas here, when I first found the forum I perused other sections and found threads that had been dead for many many months. That could be different now, I haven't looked around for awhile. But since I haven't had a positive experience with any one non-Mormon member here, I feel no desire to engage in other discussion.

But still, I have tried...just tried again a week or so ago, to find out more about someone's beliefs, and as always, the only response I receive is more disdainful commentary about my church, when I hadn't even brought up the doctrine I believe...I was just trying to make sense of what THEY believe to attempt to see where their core beliefs lie. Of course it comes from inconsistencies between my beliefs and theirs, or why else would I ask? So there's always going to be an element of my beliefs in the discussion, to expect there not to be would be disingenuous. My beliefs are an integral part of who I am, and that effects how I see everything else.

So basically, since I'm marked as a "Mormon", my experience here thus far has shown that further participation in any other discussion will only be met with this same disdain. So what would the point in that be?

Maybe if this forum truly was a place that others can freely exchange ideas and beliefs, I would take the time....but when you label this section as "non-Christian cults" right out of the gate, you are effectively and negatively judging every person with a specific belief system, expecting them to "conform" to a specific "box" as it were. I personally won't conform to the labels others give me. The only Being I have to worry about is my Father in Heaven, and I am unafraid and quite certain of how He sees me.

Now MY question is ...

If there are "Christians" here to "gather in souls", why do they feel the need to treat their fellow human beings with such contempt without even knowing them? You only need to read a previous response in this very thread to gage the opinion of another towards me as a person, simply because I'm "Mormon" and it's certainly not positive, accurate, or at all fair. It was also a completely unnecessary attack, what was that all about anyway? Again, no personal offense to you, but I do find it odd that one person personally attacks and judges an ENTIRE group of people and the only attack that's noticed or mentioned is what one person says about another one person?

It seems to me, the only outreach here is only to others who believe as they do, which is completely contrary to the comment that "Christians" don't feel the need to "conform". When it certainly seems to me there are some who expect others to completely be conformed to what they believe to fit in their "box", or they are treated as "less than" and ridiculed because of. Not just disagreed with, but belittled. Again see the previous comment here to see what I mean. Unless all that was supposed to be complimentary or a kind observation.

Now when I say "Christians", I of course am only talking about the "Christians" I have directly had contact with here. I am not speaking of you or any other person I haven't spoken with as of yet. I'm sure this can't be the views of every non-Mormon who frequents this site, so my sincere apologies to anyone who takes unwarranted offense to that. But it is what I have experienced with every single non-Mormon Christian I have directly interacted with here. And it seems to be the way the forum itself is labeled.

So I guess I myself have been quite confused as to if this is a place designed for anyone to "gather in souls". I have yet to actually see it myself.

Again, please, no offense to you, I am merely speaking of my personal experiences and observations over the last few months.

Hi, Thank you for the thoughtful reply. And sorry for the delay in responding which I should shortly. Been trying to re-emerge into the workforce after a bout with the flue, needing more and more rest you know.

Mike.
.

[disciple]

First of all, no offense to you at all, but I have not seen any attempt by anyone here to "gather in souls", I myself am not here personally to convert. I stumbled upon this forum quite on accident and frequent the board to make corrections to extreme errors in my faith. Why do I do this? I am unsure as to what end I propose this will come to, but I feel the purpose of this particular section of this forum has been to, well....belittle the beliefs of others. I'm not sure if it was originally designed for that, but one is to only look back on any recent threads that have been started to see that's what it's become. And it is not only allowed but encouraged. As long as it disagrees with Mormonism, literally ANYTHING goes.

I have a good inkling that members of the church come here to correct inaccuracies....or perhaps some for the "entertainment" factor as mentioned, though I don't necessarily see the latter in me, unless frustration is supposed to be entertaining. But as theway mentioned, I don't believe true conversion would comes through this forum, and I don't know if many Mormons come here for that specific purpose. But I could be wrong, I wouldn't begin to state as fact what the intentions of others are,I'm merely speaking from my experience and what I have noticed.

I have been guilty of getting caught up in the "pride game" myself here from time to time, in defense of my faith. I get upset sometimes with the contempt displayed, I am aware, and I own that. But originally I kept coming back to make sure anyone who stumbled upon this forum in the future, perhaps looking for information about my faith, would be able to see the error in the accusations that are continually made about the things I believe and hold dear. I would like to believe that's always still the case, but like I said, my pride can get the best of me from time to time, I try to keep that in check. But I certainly don't feel a strong spirit of conversion here from any angle. The negativity and contention is far too strong IMO.

Even now, all a certain person has to do is insult and belittle me and other members of the church in order to get responses. It would be said that it is not done to get a rise or response from anyone, but that one simply finds "enjoyment" in it. That personally seems to me a terrible thing to "enjoy" doing, but, if it's true, to each their own I suppose. I still wonder if the former isn't more accurate, but either way....I don't see a "grand purpose" or "higher calling" here. It has been confirmed that it is just a place to post whatever thoughts come to mind. Unless you're Mormon, then there's also a list of rules that go along with it.

I personally was unaware that there is activity in any of the other areas here, when I first found the forum I perused other sections and found threads that had been dead for many many months. That could be different now, I haven't looked around for awhile. But since I haven't had a positive experience with any one non-Mormon member here, I feel no desire to engage in other discussion.

But still, I have tried...just tried again a week or so ago, to find out more about someone's beliefs, and as always, the only response I receive is more disdainful commentary about my church, when I hadn't even brought up the doctrine I believe...I was just trying to make sense of what THEY believe to attempt to see where their core beliefs lie. Of course it comes from inconsistencies between my beliefs and theirs, or why else would I ask? So there's always going to be an element of my beliefs in the discussion, to expect there not to be would be disingenuous. My beliefs are an integral part of who I am, and that effects how I see everything else.

So basically, since I'm marked as a "Mormon", my experience here thus far has shown that further participation in any other discussion will only be met with this same disdain. So what would the point in that be?

Maybe if this forum truly was a place that others can freely exchange ideas and beliefs, I would take the time....but when you label this section as "non-Christian cults" right out of the gate, you are effectively and negatively judging every person with a specific belief system, expecting them to "conform" to a specific "box" as it were. I personally won't conform to the labels others give me. The only Being I have to worry about is my Father in Heaven, and I am unafraid and quite certain of how He sees me.

Now MY question is ...

If there are "Christians" here to "gather in souls", why do they feel the need to treat their fellow human beings with such contempt without even knowing them? You only need to read a previous response in this very thread to gage the opinion of another towards me as a person, simply because I'm "Mormon" and it's certainly not positive, accurate, or at all fair. It was also a completely unnecessary attack, what was that all about anyway? Again, no personal offense to you, but I do find it odd that one person personally attacks and judges an ENTIRE group of people and the only attack that's noticed or mentioned is what one person says about another one person?

It seems to me, the only outreach here is only to others who believe as they do, which is completely contrary to the comment that "Christians" don't feel the need to "conform". When it certainly seems to me there are some who expect others to completely be conformed to what they believe to fit in their "box", or they are treated as "less than" and ridiculed because of. Not just disagreed with, but belittled. Again see the previous comment here to see what I mean. Unless all that was supposed to be complimentary or a kind observation.

Now when I say "Christians", I of course am only talking about the "Christians" I have directly had contact with here. I am not speaking of you or any other person I haven't spoken with as of yet. I'm sure this can't be the views of every non-Mormon who frequents this site, so my sincere apologies to anyone who takes unwarranted offense to that. But it is what I have experienced with every single non-Mormon Christian I have directly interacted with here. And it seems to be the way the forum itself is labeled.

So I guess I myself have been quite confused as to if this is a place designed for anyone to "gather in souls". I have yet to actually see it myself.

Again, please, no offense to you, I am merely speaking of my personal experiences and observations over the last few months.

Hello MickeyS,
What a good post, very honest. I would like to reference 1 Peter 3:15-16,"Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it. But do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear." I am afraid many do not explain their faith in a gentle and respectful way and I include myself. Pride does cause us to lash out when other don't agree with us, hey who wants to be wrong, especially when eternity hangs in the balance.
I don't agree with your beliefs but I see no reason to regard you or anyone else less than myself as we are all at the mercy of a Holy God. Best wishes.

[MickeyS]

Hello MickeyS,
What a good post, very honest. I would like to reference 1 Peter 3:15-16,"Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it. But do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear." I am afraid many do not explain their faith in a gentle and respectful way and I include myself. Pride does cause us to lash out when other don't agree with us, hey who wants to be wrong, especially when eternity hangs in the balance.
I don't agree with your beliefs but I see no reason to regard you or anyone else less than myself as we are all at the mercy of a Holy God. Best wishes.

Thank you disciple for the sincere response, I truly appreciate it :)

I never entered this forum with the illusions that others would agree with my beliefs, and I am totally fine with that. (The Pride Monster sometimes isn't, but I try to keep him at bay ;)) But it's beyond important to treat each other with respect, and to discuss others beliefs with the same respect you would want to hear about your own. Regardless of whether or not you agree. I just think there are better ways to disagree.

I love the verse you quoted and agree with it wholeheartedly, and I will keep that in mind to work to "keep my conscience clear". I am aware that I can fall EXTREMELY short, and I do recognize that. I would like to say that I have tried to be civil from the start but have reacted only to the way I and my beliefs have been treated, but that is no excuse, my actions are still my own as are my choices to react as I have. When I walk away from a discussion here in frustration, it's always because of frustration in the manner in which another has decided to speak to me or about my faith, (especially when much better language could be used to get the same point across) or judgments that have been made directly about me and those I love, but even MORE, it's disappointment in the manner in which I responded. I am the only person who can control that. I'm working on it.

Again, thank you so much for addressing my comment, it was much appreciated

[MichaellS]

Hello!

Glad to meet you btw, and any other who may be reading along, shalom.

Agree with all the rest who may be struck with the same, that you exhibit in your post, an honest appraisal on what happens to the olive branch, which in effect was also granted to me. This may come as a surprise as the type of “gathering” I was referring to. If it wasn’t meant to be, then it was an excellent example of act with which to start.

I’m not an especially constructive writer, so I will touch on some of your points in a random sort of way that may answer. That in mind, I’ll start with your closing question:



If there are "Christians" here to "gather in souls", why do they feel the need to treat their fellow human beings with such contempt without even knowing them?

Because they are out of order with the Apostle’s tradition with those they don’t know. If I am wrong about that, then you have my permission to stop reading right here and fire me off a message of stern objection stating why as though you have read the entirety of this post. Ready? Fire away!

Otherwise, we (my past included) are too quick with our sacred obedience:


“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (II Tim 4:2)

Of course I’m walking on toes here. It’s because the tone is to maintain purity of the text, no matter what anyone else has to say in defense of those within range. Sorry, my thread and I think it is warranted here to state a few items.

You, the master of scriptural integrity, you think the Lord’s will is to spiritually slay all who dares tamper with the truth and doesn’t dare consider for yourself to lift a finger in the name of the Apostle’s tradition?

Come-on you defenders, and tell me I am the one out of order. Who are those you wrestle in the word against? Are they not sometimes to you as:

• Without
• Weak
• Lawless
• Alien

Then you surely see the fuller side of God’s love in the Apostle’s example to become identified. Why not? Because you lack trusting in God’s power to work among friends rather than paint them as continual enemies. You “win the weak”, remember? You don’t beat them down till they rise from the dust. I would have to give Mickey and Disciple quad-kudos to the level of cordial interaction commentary averages have seen.

Remember that tradition we have as set, the Apostle said of his inner make-up:


“I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:22)

Strengthened by Christ to love, or


“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes, ,” (Romans 1:16)

Strengthened by Christ to defend. Since the Lord said if we don’t gather, we automatically scatter wherever we go. Which leads us to ask, which stands the better chance of securing the “win”(ICr 9:19,20,21,22)?

Christ is that power in the Apostle brought to us by His Spirit upon differing instances yes, but all by that power of God. While I understand times do on occasion present themselves as hard. Don’t we suppose some of the winningest people of God down through the ages, had to at times make the co**** to delicate scale available to them, whether in difficult cases or not?

Many of your points Mickey could be covered if we somehow came to the place where we held that tradition in its fullness. Discussion might take on some level of fluid civility, even progress. Then when at last those sharp dissenting remarks have to be brought forth, ,well guess what? I just remembered when I became you.


“Now I praise you because you always remember me and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.” (I Cor 11:2)

God bless you!!

Mike.
.

[BigJulie]

Now one of the reasons I came up with as to why they never post outside their "comfort area", Has to do with one of the basics of being a Mormon that most Christians don't understand..

It has to do with the concept of "Freedom"
Basically as a Christian I feel very free to post on any topic, and to comment in any way i want..
I don't even actually have to believe in what im saying at the time, nor do i have to worry that I'm in agreement with other Christians...
heck the question of being in "full agreement" with others just never pops into my mind.

But I once had a private conversation with a Mormon named Fig, (He has now p***ed)and during our private conversation we talked about the way he simply would not allow himself to post on other topics.
And what i remember in his emails was that he simply did not understand the concept of being in a free and open religion the same way i did.
he always felt ...well...for lack of a better word...he felt "pressure" to only show he "conformed" to the views of others....

He also had this one other thing in the back of his mind that was this understanding that he could not allow himself to write on topics that might show he had a different opinion than other Mormons...


i really did not understand what he was saying at the time until I started to teach more the younger students.
Then I noticed that there were always a bunch of kids that were always struggling to match-step with the majority of the cl***, and there were always a few who simply did not care what the majority thought.

The problems come when a person knows he has a different opinion yet hides it away and does not share it out of worry that it might not be well accepted by others.
This leads to a type of "fake" faith in your own religion.
A "fake-ness" about all you pretend to believe in.

In time your religion becomes so fake to even yourself that you just dont allow yourselfto go comment on other topics because you know you would have to fake just more and more answers anyway...

And so they dont...
They hide where the well-known fake answers are all they need to repeat, and they stay away from topics where if they answred honestly they would only be pointing out to everyone including themselves how truly fake their other posts are.

You forget the days of Billyray in which thread after thread (in which we were not talking about Mormonism) were deleted. It seems one cannot have a discussion in which we disagree unless it is against another church.

[BigJulie]

First of all, no offense to you at all, but I have not seen any attempt by anyone here to "gather in souls", I myself am not here personally to convert. I stumbled upon this forum quite on accident and frequent the board to make corrections to extreme errors in my faith. Why do I do this? I am unsure as to what end I propose this will come to, but I feel the purpose of this particular section of this forum has been to, well....belittle the beliefs of others. I'm not sure if it was originally designed for that, but one is to only look back on any recent threads that have been started to see that's what it's become. And it is not only allowed but encouraged. As long as it disagrees with Mormonism, literally ANYTHING goes.

I have a good inkling that members of the church come here to correct inaccuracies....or perhaps some for the "entertainment" factor as mentioned, though I don't necessarily see the latter in me, unless frustration is supposed to be entertaining. But as theway mentioned, I don't believe true conversion would comes through this forum, and I don't know if many Mormons come here for that specific purpose. But I could be wrong, I wouldn't begin to state as fact what the intentions of others are,I'm merely speaking from my experience and what I have noticed.

I have been guilty of getting caught up in the "pride game" myself here from time to time, in defense of my faith. I get upset sometimes with the contempt displayed, I am aware, and I own that. But originally I kept coming back to make sure anyone who stumbled upon this forum in the future, perhaps looking for information about my faith, would be able to see the error in the accusations that are continually made about the things I believe and hold dear. I would like to believe that's always still the case, but like I said, my pride can get the best of me from time to time, I try to keep that in check. But I certainly don't feel a strong spirit of conversion here from any angle. The negativity and contention is far too strong IMO.

Even now, all a certain person has to do is insult and belittle me and other members of the church in order to get responses. It would be said that it is not done to get a rise or response from anyone, but that one simply finds "enjoyment" in it. That personally seems to me a terrible thing to "enjoy" doing, but, if it's true, to each their own I suppose. I still wonder if the former isn't more accurate, but either way....I don't see a "grand purpose" or "higher calling" here. It has been confirmed that it is just a place to post whatever thoughts come to mind. Unless you're Mormon, then there's also a list of rules that go along with it.

I personally was unaware that there is activity in any of the other areas here, when I first found the forum I perused other sections and found threads that had been dead for many many months. That could be different now, I haven't looked around for awhile. But since I haven't had a positive experience with any one non-Mormon member here, I feel no desire to engage in other discussion.

But still, I have tried...just tried again a week or so ago, to find out more about someone's beliefs, and as always, the only response I receive is more disdainful commentary about my church, when I hadn't even brought up the doctrine I believe...I was just trying to make sense of what THEY believe to attempt to see where their core beliefs lie. Of course it comes from inconsistencies between my beliefs and theirs, or why else would I ask? So there's always going to be an element of my beliefs in the discussion, to expect there not to be would be disingenuous. My beliefs are an integral part of who I am, and that effects how I see everything else.

So basically, since I'm marked as a "Mormon", my experience here thus far has shown that further participation in any other discussion will only be met with this same disdain. So what would the point in that be?

Maybe if this forum truly was a place that others can freely exchange ideas and beliefs, I would take the time....but when you label this section as "non-Christian cults" right out of the gate, you are effectively and negatively judging every person with a specific belief system, expecting them to "conform" to a specific "box" as it were. I personally won't conform to the labels others give me. The only Being I have to worry about is my Father in Heaven, and I am unafraid and quite certain of how He sees me.

Now MY question is ...

If there are "Christians" here to "gather in souls", why do they feel the need to treat their fellow human beings with such contempt without even knowing them? You only need to read a previous response in this very thread to gage the opinion of another towards me as a person, simply because I'm "Mormon" and it's certainly not positive, accurate, or at all fair. It was also a completely unnecessary attack, what was that all about anyway? Again, no personal offense to you, but I do find it odd that one person personally attacks and judges an ENTIRE group of people and the only attack that's noticed or mentioned is what one person says about another one person?

It seems to me, the only outreach here is only to others who believe as they do, which is completely contrary to the comment that "Christians" don't feel the need to "conform". When it certainly seems to me there are some who expect others to completely be conformed to what they believe to fit in their "box", or they are treated as "less than" and ridiculed because of. Not just disagreed with, but belittled. Again see the previous comment here to see what I mean. Unless all that was supposed to be complimentary or a kind observation.

Now when I say "Christians", I of course am only talking about the "Christians" I have directly had contact with here. I am not speaking of you or any other person I haven't spoken with as of yet. I'm sure this can't be the views of every non-Mormon who frequents this site, so my sincere apologies to anyone who takes unwarranted offense to that. But it is what I have experienced with every single non-Mormon Christian I have directly interacted with here. And it seems to be the way the forum itself is labeled.

So I guess I myself have been quite confused as to if this is a place designed for anyone to "gather in souls". I have yet to actually see it myself.

Again, please, no offense to you, I am merely speaking of my personal experiences and observations over the last few months.

Amen! :) :) :) :) (Adding smiles to get enough text that it allows me to post.)

[alanmolstad]

You forget the days of Billyray in which thread after thread (in which we were not talking about Mormonism) were deleted. It seems one cannot have a discussion in which we disagree unless it is against another church.

in EVERY case where a topic had to be cleared it was ALWAYS because of personal attacks....

Personal attacks were the #1 fall-back position of the majority of guests that we had at the time...
People would start a topic...a few guests would respond, and at that point the name-calling and the bitter personal attacks would start, and things that had nothing to do with the topic would be dragged up.....
Arguments that got people kicked off of a different forum would suddenly spring up here out of the blue...

A lot of warnings went out...and on a personal note, I had a very long listof guests on my IGNORE LIST that showed just how nasty some people were,...(regardless of their religious affiliation)


In fact, it was at that point that I reached out to a Mormon named FIG and asked him to have a look at a few of the non-Mormon topics I had started at the time, and I asked him to consider posting.
I think we already know the way that turned out...

[BigJulie]

in EVERY case where a topic had to be cleared it was ALWAYS because of personal attacks....

Personal attacks were the #1 fall-back position of the majority of guests that we had at the time...
People would start a topic...a few guests would respond, and at that point the name-calling and the bitter personal attacks would start, and things that had nothing to do with the topic would be dragged up.....
Arguments that got people kicked off of a different forum would suddenly spring up here out of the blue...

A lot of warnings went out...and on a personal note, I had a very long listof guests on my IGNORE LIST that showed just how nasty some people were,...(regardless of their religious affiliation)


In fact, it was at that point that I reached out to a Mormon named FIG and asked him to have a look at a few of the non-Mormon topics I had started at the time, and I asked him to consider posting.
I think we already know the way that turned out...

I read the threads--(and the whole threads were deleted). They had to do with whether or not one is predestined to be saved. I did not see any personal attacks going on.

[disciple]

What are Yawnfest... Now I know this forum is over.
Every time a forum is about to die, a long winded poster comes along who claims they are only trying to get everybody to get along by using the "intellectual approach" and their word-soup.. The last two times it was a Poster called JohnT. The problem is, on forums like this there can be no compromises or "getting along", they were not created for that purpose.

Take a position... Quit trying to bore everyone to death.

Hi Way,
I'll bet you think the apostle Paul is long winded too.
“Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” Romans 12:17-21

[alanmolstad]

I read the threads--(and the whole threads were deleted). They had to do with whether or not one is predestined to be saved. I did not see any personal attacks going on.
If you want to start a topic on that idea...go for it !

With luck you may get a few people to join in and answer it..

But I can ***ure you that there are very good reasons that past topics that you might remember now were cleared.
Even at the time I remember seeing how people were posting was dooming the chance that that topic would last.

In every case it was because of the bitter personal attacks...

At the time I also can remember that the same people would get into the very same spitting match on the very same things, regadless of what the topic was supposed to be about.

There were 3or 4 guests at the time that would get banned from another forum and all come here and pick up their argument right were it left off on the other forum that banned them.
We would be right in the middle of conversation when all of the sudden a bunch of new people all show up at the same time and start talking about junk that the rest of us did not have a clue about.
And.....before any topics were cleared there were sent out warnings.....I saw the warnings and I saw how people just seemed to want the topics to be cleared...

They acted like they did not give a darn if they got banned from this site because they knew they would just go back to the other forum when their banned was lifted...

Also, please note I have not blamed any religion for being most at fault for the cleared topics.
The truth is, that the religion of the posters involved with all the personal attacks did not matter.

I actually received a nasty Private Message from a well-known Christian poster that really got angry with me because I had pointed out that she was also attacking people in a personal manner that was against the rules.

Her defense was that "The other person started it"

That reason did not fly here.


So its never the subject that is the cause of a topic being cleared...The problem is the behavior of some of the guests in the past that seemed to invite trouble.


So to sum up...
If a person wants to talk about if one is predestined to be saved or not....there is nothing stopping you!
Heck, the forum could use a few new topics going anyway,so it would be nice to see stuff posted that was new.

[MickeyS]

I don't know about long winded, but Paul was certainly given to hyperbole.
Also he tended to use arguments which contradicted other statements he made. Luckily we don't have just the words of Paul to go by, or the Christian Church and its gospel would look completely different than it does today.

Are you saying what Paul said here is wrong?? I'm confused. My biggest problem with this forum has been people intentionally going out of their way to be unnessecarily rude. Not for any other purpose then that they can, and my point has been that it's un-Christlike. I've even used these verses to point that out, and you seem to be saying it's incorrect? Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying. But I personally think we should be doing our best to live peaceably with all men. It's the spirit of contention that gets us nowhere, and I thought you have even stated that yourself. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. I don't know.

[MickeyS]

But I can ***ure you that there are very good reasons that past topics that you might remember now were cleared.
Even at the time I remember seeing how people were posting was dooming the chance that that topic would last.

In every case it was because of the bitter personal attacks...

Are you saying this forum used to be WORSE??? Ohmyword

[alanmolstad]

Are you saying this forum used to be WORSE??? Oh my word


There are some of the most well-known Forum guests who have a bad reputation of being angry all the time...

They get banned at one website and without missing a beat show up here and continue their argument
regardless of the topic they interrupt here.

They seem to love to drag out old things that happened to them years ago and fight over who said what and when...