Suppressed Evidence of Dinosaurs living among men represented through art :

[jude1:3]

Stegosaurus carving at 800 year old Ta Prohm Temple in Cambodia - 1186 A.D.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwKTRsaTaY

[jude1:3]

Plesiosaur on Egyptian Coffin 530 B.C.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AtYXjOIeZ0

[jude1:3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6M1b36KbHs

[jude1:3]

236


237


238

[alanmolstad]

if you want to believe in something enough.....

[jude1:3]

The Loch Ness Monster was/is probably a Plesiosaur.

[alanmolstad]

Growing up we used to hear stories of "Eye Witness" accounts of things like Bigfoot,UFOs, Sea Monsters, etc all the time.

And once in a while someone would come forward with a Photo to support their story too.

but not any more.

That stopped around the beginning of the 21th century.


Why? you may ask....

The reason is that we all got them "Smart Phones"now with their ability to take very clear and sharp videos and photos.
Once we all became able to take such real proof to back-up a UFO story, all the so-called proof disappeared.


No more fuzzy photos of a UFO.
No more stories of seeing a sea monster while out fishing.
No more accounts of sighting Bigfoot.



This shows us that all the wild stories of the past were fake, or just made by people that were confused.

[jude1:3]

Check this out :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mneDhOtVEQw

[jude1:3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJAii5n0KIo

[alanmolstad]

If people need to believe Im sure they will.....

[jude1:3]

If people need to believe Im sure they will.....




The reason I'm posting these things is to counter attack the lie that the world is millions of years old and that dinosaurs died off millions of years ago. From these depictions on artifacts we can see that they coexisted with humans.

[alanmolstad]

I believe the earth is Billions of years old.....and that the dinos died off millions and millions of years before the rise of modern man,,,except for the fact that it looks like our modern birds are just evolved dinos....

and I believe this is in harmony with the story of Genesis....

[jude1:3]

I wish more people would chime in and share their thoughts :( even if they disagree.

[alanmolstad]

My views on early Earth history are these...

Basically that Genesis works well next to Evolution and that there are no real issues between the two.



That is the general idea that I hold to.
Now from a Bible student point of view I look at the text of the Bible as written,and for the most part I dont see any problems to get bent out of shape about....
Everything more or less works within the teachings of science, and there is no need at all to believe in a young Earth, nor fear the teachings of science concerning the age of the universe or the evolution of Life on this world..

[alanmolstad]

Now as for the specifics as to where I totally disagree with the Young Earth teachings....




The main disagreement I have concerns the way the Young Earth teachers read the Genesis story concerning the creation of light on the earth.

Young Earth Teachers believe that God created light before he created the sun, the source of light.


I believe the Bible teaches that God created the sun first....and therefore there is no need at all to invent this so-called "source-less light"!



The odd thing in this , is that once you see that you don't need to invent a source-less light for genesis, none of the rest of the story really disagrees with modern Science and Evolution at all.

So in other words- The young Earth teachers invented a non-biblical concept of a 'source-less light" twisted it into their understanding of the story, and then from then on that one lie forced them to come up with all kinds of other crazy reasons to make the whole house of cards stand up...

Everything else taught by the Young Earth Teachers (And there is a big list, I should know as I attended an 8-week cl*** taught personally by Ken Ham himself, so I have heard it all from the best) is only there to support the source-less light idea...and that is an idea that they just invented and is not really in the text at all.

So that is one of the first things I attack with any student of the Young earth teachers...
I attack the concept taught to them for a source-less light...
I show the student that the Bible does tell us that all the lights in Genesis have a very normal source, that is still there burning today...

And once the student sees that the whole Young Earth teaching was build on the invented idea of a source-less light it gets a lot more easy to show them what the bible actually says compared to what the Young earth Teachers told them it said....








This is the main issue I have with the Young earth teachings, and where I believe they go off the rails.

[disciple]

I believe the earth is Billions of years old.....and that the dinos died off millions and millions of years before the rise of modern man,,,except for the fact that it looks like our modern birds are just evolved dinos....

and I believe this is in harmony with the story of Genesis....


The world which God made for man to inhabit was 'very good', these were God's words. It had been prepared to receive him as its crown, and the setting was constructed so as to be ideal for Adam and Eve. The world was not created with the Fall in mind, still less with the curse of death already let loose. The bible tells us that there was no death in the world before sin, evolution suggests that there were billions of years of incredible waste, death, pain, and horror. The Bible states quite specifically that death did not exist until Adam and Eve sinned against God. Scientifically speaking, the 2nd law of thermodynamics, a proven law of science, also makes evolution impossible.

[alanmolstad]

The bible does not blame animal death onto man's sin...so that part of your statement is in error

[alanmolstad]

If you also have a question about anything I have posted so far just ask me now to quote the verse that teaches it?

[disciple]

The bible does not blame animal death onto man's sin...so that part of your statement is in error

Can you cite the verses that support your statement, specifically?

[jude1:3]

Another picture:


239

[jude1:3]

And some more:



240

[alanmolstad]

Can you cite the verses that support your statement, specifically?

well???>>>I mean think about what you are asking...
...you want me to show you that the Bible does not list a verse that blames animal death onto man's sin?

Its sorta like if I said "There is no verse in the bible that teaches that men should wear heir underwear on the outside over their pants"...and you ask me to show you that verse????????

Its kinda hard to show you a verse that I just told you does not exist.
------------------------------------------------



But,,,,,so that you have a better understanding of what the Bible says, I will now point out a few things:

The Bible gives no reason at all why animals could not have died before the sin of Adam.
The Bible only blames the death of men onto the sin of Adam....

Just look at a verse that is often used to try to prove me wrong to see what Im saying...
Turn to Romans 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death p***ed upon all men..."


The Young Earth Teachers look at this verse and only read the part that says, "By one man sin entered the world, and death" and stop reading there and think, "That proves that all death including the death of animals came from Adam's sin!"

But I just then point out that if they had not stopped reading right there, but just kept reading for a little bit more they would see what that verse is actually talking about...For it then says that this death came to "all men"

The whole verse is only talking about the sin of men, and the death of humans...
For "human" death does clearly come from the sin of Adam....

That is what the Bible is saying at Romans 5:12 and so that is what I believe too.



Now some might try to say that the word "all" seen in some translations of Romans 5:12 must be talking about all the death on the earth including all animals.

But I would just point out that in anther section of the story of Genesis it makes use of this very same word "all" but it cant be talking about "all = all animals too"

Check out Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

Here we see the word "all " used to talk about "all life" and its used in a manner that the Bible also talks about death coming to "all" but as we see, it cant possible be talking about the animals too, or else you are saying that Eve gave birth to "all" the animals too!!!!


So to sum up....
When someone says that "all death" in the world is the result of Adam's sin we have to just point out that the Bible only means "all human death", just like when the Bible tells us that Eve is the Mother of "All living" (or "all life" in some Bibles) that this is only talking about all "human" life.

[disciple]

well???>>>I mean think about what you are asking...
...you want me to show you that the Bible does not list a verse that blames animal death onto man's sin?

Its sorta like if I said "There is no verse in the bible that teaches that men should wear heir underwear on the outside over their pants"...and you ask me to show you that verse????????

Its kinda hard to show you a verse that I just told you does not exist.
------------------------------------------------



But,,,,,so that you have a better understanding of what the Bible says, I will now point out a few things:

The Bible gives no reason at all why animals could not have died before the sin of Adam.
The Bible only blames the death of men onto the sin of Adam....

Just look at a verse that is often used to try to prove me wrong to see what Im saying...
Turn to Romans 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death p***ed upon all men..."


The Young Earth Teachers look at this verse and only read the part that says, "By one man sin entered the world, and death" and stop reading there and think, "That proves that all death including the death of animals came from Adam's sin!"

But I just then point out that if they had not stopped reading right there, but just kept reading for a little bit more they would see what that verse is actually talking about...For it then says that this death came to "all men"

The whole verse is only talking about the sin of men, and the death of humans...
For "human" death does clearly come from the sin of Adam....

That is what the Bible is saying at Romans 5:12 and so that is what I believe too.



Now some might try to say that the word "all" seen in some translations of Romans 5:12 must be talking about all the death on the earth including all animals.

But I would just point out that in anther section of the story of Genesis it makes use of this very same word "all" but it cant be talking about "all = all animals too"

Check out Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

Here we see the word "all " used to talk about "all life" and its used in a manner that the Bible also talks about death coming to "all" but as we see, it cant possible be talking about the animals too, or else you are saying that Eve gave birth to "all" the animals too!!!!


So to sum up....
When someone says that "all death" in the world is the result of Adam's sin we have to just point out that the Bible only means "all human death", just like when the Bible tells us that Eve is the Mother of "All living" (or "all life" in some Bibles) that this is only talking about all "human" life.

So do you believe that man evolved or just everything else?

[alanmolstad]

So do you believe that man evolved or just everything else?
What we find in the Bible is a story that will walk with Evolution without disagreement.

Lets look at the Text:
What we find is that Man is created not inside the protected garden, but outside it.
We dont really know what life was like outside the garden,,,but we can understand that there is a reason we call one the "wilderness' and the other the "garden".

Now what is man made from according to evolution?
The answer is that you can trace back humans to earlier forms of early humans, to the big apes, and before that we go to a common type of mammal, and I guess before that we are talking some type of fish or something, and before that we started out as some type of single-cell life form...
and before even that first single-cell lifeforms?....well then we are dealing with the different forms of pre-life that formed later life.
and before even that?......well then we are talking so far back into evolutionary history that we are dealing with the very first building blocks of life....
and before that?....well...before that we come to the fundamental elements that over millions of years started to change into things that life would come forth from....

and before that...whats the final source for life on the earth according to Evolution?.....the answer is that everything started out as the Earth itself.
That in a very real way according to the teachings of Evolution, we are nothing more than just a part of this Earth that has come to life.


In in the end, Evolution will trace back life to the "Earth"







Ok!

Now lets compare that answer to what the bible teaches is the source where all life including humans came forth from...
Of man it says about our source - "until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken;"


So according to Genesis we are from the Earth too...

So this is in agreement with Evolution.


But what about the animals, do we share a source with the animals according to genesis?......yes, "19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.








So to sum this all up:

In both Evolution and in Genesis there is complete agreement as to the source of all life, both Human and the animals.....

[alanmolstad]

so what this means is that its totally fine to believe that humans evolved.
That the Text of the bible is written in such a way as to work with Evolution.
That while the Bible does not "teach" evolution, it does not teach against it...


thus there is no need for the Christian to be afraid that evolution is against God's plan...

In fact, what we can decided from reading both Genesis and from learning about the world from science, is that evolution is a "tool" of the Lord's hand....
and thus evolution is to be respected .

and considered as holy as sunshine, rain, and the all the things that God has made in this universe...

[alanmolstad]

with me still?

If there is anything I have posted that you want me to provide you with support from the text?...just let me know.

,I will be more than happy to go over anything I have written.




What I have attempted to do is point out to you is that there is a difference in how our bodies of flesh got here...and with our being made in the image of God.
They are two totally different things.

The flesh of man is not made in the image of God...
(That is yet another way i disagree with the Mormons )

[MickeyS]

I wish more people would chime in and share their thoughts :( even if they disagree.

These are very interesting finds Jude, I'm not a scientist and haven't studied these things to great lengths, but these are my thoughts.

I believe the "days" mentioned in Genesis are creative time periods. We have no way of knowing how long each period really was, nor can we ***ume each period was the same duration of time. I believe science is important, but it evolves with man's understanding of the world around him, and with the resources and technology available. So no "facts" are set in stone IMO. New breakthroughs in science cause us to adjust previous hypotheses, and new discoveries (like what you have presented here) cause us to rethink a lot more. In short I don't think we have any way of knowing for sure how old the earth really is.

I think the "no death" before the Fall is also interesting, but I have to agree with Alan that the Fall only affected man and not animals. If the Fall had affected animal life, that would mean they were also subject to the same terms, which would imply that animals would experience a spiritual death as well as a physical, meaning they sin. Since animals are in fact sinless, this doesn't work. Plus, we were the only beings made in His image. So I believe death in the natural world was possible before Adam & Eve in the Garden.

That being said....I do not nor ever will believe we evolved from apes. Once again, we were made in His image....whatever you take "image" to mean, it does not include anything other than man. I don't believe in evolution as much as I believe in a form of evolving adaptation in the animal kingdom. Animals have always adapted to new environments and conditions, that's been recorded throughout the history of man. Dinosaurs are definitely interesting, my mom told me something she theorized once that I will not be sharing here lol.

But finally, I believe that man will never be able to gain complete scientific PROOF of the existence of God. I believe one of the purposes for us coming to earth was to come to Him and believe in Him through faith. It's part of His plan for us. I think science is fantastic (God was the Original Scientist) and it can be used to complement our faith in God and all His creations. I just know that a man without faith would never be able to simply prove God does in fact exist. That would frustrate the Master's Plan.

Of course there are many things that escape my understanding, and places where science and faith don't appear to come together at all. Thats when I fall back on faith in Him and trust His understanding, and not mans, and look to the day when these things will in fact be revealed and explained to us. So in the end, I don't sweat those things too much.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[alanmolstad]

Again if anything I have posted looks questionable just ask me for a verse..

[jude1:3]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

[disciple]

so what this means is that its totally fine to believe that humans evolved.
That the Text of the bible is written in such a way as to work with Evolution.
That while the Bible does not "teach" evolution, it does not teach against it...


thus there is no need for the Christian to be afraid that evolution is against God's plan...

In fact, what we can decided from reading both Genesis and from learning about the world from science, is that evolution is a "tool" of the Lord's hand....
and thus evolution is to be respected .

and considered as holy as sunshine, rain, and the all the things that God has made in this universe...

I think you would have an argument with Jesus Alan, here is what He said in Matthew 19:4-5," And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Jesus said God created man and woman at the beginning, male and female fully human from the start. No long procession of sub human creatures dying until Adam finally showed up. What about the hominoid right before Adam that died, the one that was almost fully human do you consider that the death of an animal? It is not totally fine to believe in evolution, it is a tool of the devil not of God.

[alanmolstad]

I think you would have an argument with Jesus Alan, here is what He said in Matthew 19:4-5," And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Jesus said God created man and woman at the beginning, male and female fully human from the start. No long procession of sub human creatures dying until Adam finally showed up. What about the hominoid right before Adam that died, the one that was almost fully human do you consider that the death of an animal? It is not totally fine to believe in evolution, it is a tool of the devil not of God.
Jesus was talking about marriage.... Jesus was teaching about marriage and divorce.
But Jesus is also correct in the humans were created from the beginning as males and females...The sexual differences between males and females goes back into evolution's history millions if not billions of years....so i have no problem with that.

But as for the death that happened for untold billions of years before the sin of Adam?...what of it?...
Lets look at the story of Genesis to find our answer-,
Where is mankind taken from?......the answer is that God took the man from where he was created first,(outside the garden) and he brought the man into the protected garden.

Was life like for the humans inside the garden the same as what life was like to humans outside the garden?....The answer is, we dont know how to answer that question.
But what we can know for sure is the the term "garden" teaches us that there is a very real difference between how things were inside the garden,compared to how things were outside it.

We know this because the very term "garden" teaches us this....




Now the reason the Young Earth Teachers go off the rails and dont know how to understand Earth's history is that they don't know the Bible.
The Young Earth teachers dont understand how God could make "light" first without making a star like our sun to be the source for that light yet?????

They don't understand how there could be any light when the bible says that god did not make the sun until the 4th day?
What is the answer?.....The answer is that God made stars like our sun first!

What about the 4th day, does not the Bible say that God made the sun on the 4th day?......The answer is that the Bible does not actually say that God made the "sun"on the 4th day at all !



So what does the Bible teach as to the creation of stars like our sun?.....The answer is that God created stars like our sun first as it is written "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..."


So the use of the term "Heavens"in Gen 1:1is talking about our sun being created first?......The answer is that the term "Heavens" can be talking about all the things in space,,,not only stars like our own Sun, but also all the other things like other worlds and black holes and things that we dont even have names for yet and are as yet unknown!


So the Bible is in agreement with the order of things in outer-space?......The answer is YES!


So the "light" that is created at the beginning of the Genesis story was just the resultof the stars that God made like our own sun at Genesis 1:1?......The answer is YES!


So there is no need to invent the concept of a "sourceless light' just to answer the question "Where did the light come from?"......the answer is that God made the stars like our own sun forst, and from that moment we have a very normal source for all the light talked about in the rest of the Genesis story.



But is the "light" that is talked about in the verse that says "Let there be light" from the very same source as the light talked about on the 4th day?.......The answer is that the light is all the same light, the Light at the start of the Genesis story is from the sun just as all the light talked about on the 4th day is all from the same sun, all the light talked about in Genesis is from stars like our own sun.

[disciple]

Jesus was talking about marriage.... Jesus was teaching about marriage and divorce.
But Jesus is also correct in the humans were created from the beginning as males and females...The sexual differences between males and females goes back into evolution's history millions if not billions of years....so i have no problem with that.

But as for the death that happened for untold billions of years before the sin of Adam?...what of it?...
Lets look at the story of Genesis to find our answer-,
Where is mankind taken from?......the answer is that God took the man from where he was created first,(outside the garden) and he brought the man into the protected garden.

Was life like for the humans inside the garden the same as what life was like to humans outside the garden?....The answer is, we dont know how to answer that question.
But what we can know for sure is the the term "garden" teaches us that there is a very real difference between how things were inside the garden,compared to how things were outside it.

We know this because the very term "garden" teaches us this....




Now the reason the Young Earth Teachers go off the rails and dont know how to understand Earth's history is that they don't know the Bible.
The Young Earth teachers dont understand how God could make "light" first without making a star like our sun to be the source for that light yet?????

They don't understand how there could be any light when the bible says that god did not make the sun until the 4th day?
What is the answer?.....The answer is that God made stars like our sun first!

What about the 4th day, does not the Bible say that God made the sun on the 4th day?......The answer is that the Bible does not actually say that God made the "sun"on the 4th day at all !



So what does the Bible teach as to the creation of stars like our sun?.....The answer is that God created stars like our sun first as it is written "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..."


So the use of the term "Heavens"in Gen 1:1is talking about our sun being created first?......The answer is that the term "Heavens" can be talking about all the things in space,,,not only stars like our own Sun, but also all the other things like other worlds and black holes and things that we dont even have names for yet and are as yet unknown!


So the Bible is in agreement with the order of things in outer-space?......The answer is YES!


So the "light" that is created at the beginning of the Genesis story was just the resultof the stars that God made like our own sun at Genesis 1:1?......The answer is YES!


So there is no need to invent the concept of a "sourceless light' just to answer the question "Where did the light come from?"......the answer is that God made the stars like our own sun forst, and from that moment we have a very normal source for all the light talked about in the rest of the Genesis story.



But is the "light" that is talked about in the verse that says "Let there be light" from the very same source as the light talked about on the 4th day?.......The answer is that the light is all the same light, the Light at the start of the Genesis story is from the sun just as all the light talked about on the 4th day is all from the same sun, all the light talked about in Genesis is from stars like our own sun.

Sorry Alan, evolution is a theory that has not and cannot be proven and to say it can be put along side scripture is incorrect. Let God be true and every man a liar.

[alanmolstad]

Sorry Alan, evolution is a theory that has not and cannot be proven and to say it can be put along side scripture is incorrect. Let God be true and every man a liar.
again.....if you have any questions about something I have posted on this topic, or would like me to backup something I have said with a bible verse?...just ask.

I believe all the points I have raised are taken right out of the Bible's text and can be proved.

Im also going to be posting a lot more on this topic today as i dig deeper into the errors of the Young Earth Teachers and comparing them to what the bible teaches.

feel free at any time to stop me and ask "Where is that in the Bible?"should you see something posted you call into question...

[alanmolstad]

I believe the "days" mentioned in Genesis are creative time periods. We have no way of knowing how long each period really was, nor can we ***ume each period was the same duration of time.
.
Today I plan to deal with the issue of the "Days" of the Genesis story....and you will see that you are correct, there is no real way to know the length of time each day is talking about....

[jude1:3]

Today I plan to deal with the issue of the "Days" of the Genesis story....and you will see that you are correct, there is no real way to know the length of time each day is talking about....



Can I ask you a favor ? Can you please start a new thread in the Creationism/Evolutionism section ? The reason I ask is because this particular thread is about Archaeology and dinosaurs in Anceint Art. The thread is kind of getting derailed a little bit.

[alanmolstad]

Sounds good

[jude1:3]

Sounds good



Thanks Alan.

[alanmolstad]

.....and thats how you kill a topic kids.....

[jude1:3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWe3cteDuBc&nohtml5=False

[alanmolstad]

http://ncse.com/cej/2/4/paluxy-man-creationist-piltdown

[alanmolstad]

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/17/science/fossils-of-man-tracks-shown-to-be-dinosaurian.html

[alanmolstad]

https://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/aig-on-the-paluxy-river-footprints/

[alanmolstad]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d25_1273340971

[alanmolstad]

Now I attended a 8-week ORIGINS cl*** back in the 1990s as taught personally by Mr Ken Ham, and at that time he was clearly dropping the reference in his cl*** to any arguments based on finding human and Dino footprints.

I believe this is because it was known even back then to Creationist teachers at that time that the so-called "proof" was suspected to be a total hoax.

As far as I know, modern YEC textbooks have dropped most if not all references to this hoax.

There may be some older YEC videos still being p***ed around, as well as there might be new YEC websites that are still using the same stock footage by the guys who promoted this hoax, but thankfully most YEC textbooks and websites that are updated do not make any listing of this hoax.

I actually remember when this argument first came forth and I think it was a Christian mag called CHRISTIANITY TODAY that sent a editor down who also happens to be a hunter to have a look what was going on?

What he later wrote about finding was a Bible Sunday school cl*** doing the work on the tracks!
What the students told the writer is that they were instructed by their Bible teacher to remove any stone with picks that did not look like a human footprint.

The students were observed placing their own feet into the tracks, and then feeling what stone they should chip away to end up with a more human-looking print.


So in the end, the Writer decided that the whole idea is a hoax.

as far as I can tell, they have now been able to actually name the type Dino that made the tracks that later were misidentified as human....

[disciple]

Alan, all four links you provided are from liberal, Godless, publications and with immoral advertisements. Do these sources
walk hand in hand with scriptures? Why would you use such sources unless you agree with them?

[alanmolstad]

step one....if you cant stand the news...blame the messenger....

[alanmolstad]

Now I dont really find a lot of blame against the YEC believers I run into on the web for getting sucked-in by the old fake YEC story about the "found footprints"....However I do find fault in these people not bothering to listen to the evidence when it is later shown to be a complete fake story.

con-men like the Mormon Smith, as well as others in history have one thing in common with each other. That thing is that all con-men understand that if you tell a person what they wanted to hear, you dont have to have all that much proof behind what you are saying.

The people back in the 60s and 70 that had books they were selling that were about UFOs and Bigfoot, sold them to people that "wanted to believe"....so they did not have to have all that great of proof to yet be believed by the people that really wanted to believe.

Its the same with the Dino/human footprint story.
The story was a hoax told to the church by men who understand that they did not have to have a lot of proof to yet be totally believed by some people, because some people really wanted to believe no matter what!



thats why this story spread in the 1970sand got so much attention.
People wanted to believe.

and if you want to believe that much, then it dont really matter how fake the proof is, you will believe it no matter what.

[jude1:3]

Alan you are sinning by pushing the demonic lie of Macroevolution.

[disciple]

step one....if you cant stand the news...blame the messenger....

Hi Alan,

My last comment has nothing to do with whether the stories are true or false, people can believe whatever they want.
I'm saying sources like you linked to shine a bad light on you. I tell you because of the love we should have for one another.

[jude1:3]

This Thread is Not about YEC . It Is About Suppressed Evidence of Dinosaurs living among men.

Please post YEC/Evolution responses in the Creationism vs Evolution section. Please.

[alanmolstad]

Alan you are sinning by pushing the demonic lie of Macroevolution.
well, thanks for playing, remember to pick up a home-version of our game on the way out....








(if you cant stand behind your argument, I guess you can still feel safe by just saying to the other person, "You are a sinner" and then walk away with that.
But the Bible commands us to be ready always to give to every man an answer, a reason for the hope inside us. So by not being able to give an answer you only show yourself a poor Bible student)

[alanmolstad]

This Thread is Not about YEC . It Is About Suppressed Evidence of Dinosaurs living among men.

Please post YEC/Evolution responses in the Creationism vs Evolution section. Please.sorry I dont feel like it....
I believe that they are connected...
the Young Earth Creation teachings are strongly connected to the idea that men lived with the dinos....
there is even the idea out of some websites that dinos were on the genesis flood ark.....

So that is why I will post here all the proof I can find that all the so-called Evidence that Dinos live among men is ...."FAKE!

Its all fake....

Every shred of proof used to support that men lives with dinos is totally 100% fake....

[alanmolstad]

Hi Alan,

My last comment has nothing to do with whether the stories are true or false, people can believe whatever they want.
I'm saying sources like you linked to shine a bad light on you. I tell you because of the love we should have for one another.



The stories the men lived with Dinos are false....

they are fake stories that trick Christians into believing things that are simply not true.

and I dont give a rip if the guy who made the website I link to is a christian or not...!!

I only care that the information found at a website can be proved.


so telling me that my linking to a non-christian site make me look bad is a moot point.
I dont care!


what do I care about?.......I care about truth!

I care about facts that can be proved.
What Im finding is that the YEC websites we see listed that support the idea that men lived with the dinos are misleading Christians.

They lie.

They fake proof.

They spread lies...

They tell lies to people that are easy to fool because they want to believe no matter what.





Im going to tell the real truth about such YEC websites....
And Im just getting started!

[alanmolstad]

now as for the idea that some art with what looks like a dino on it proves anything?....thats just not at all true and never was true.

The art we find only represents what the artist aimed with it...and we may never know that answer.


Its like in a million years they find a plastic cover from a old Jur***ic Park DVD ...they would have to understand it in the correct context or else they may come away from it thinking that in the past people lived with dinos and made movies with them .

[disciple]

so telling me that my linking to a non-christian site make me look bad is a moot point.
I dont care!



Obviously. How about proving what you say about evolution going hand in hand with scripture
from the bible. No Darwin, no unproven theories, no non-Christian sources who by the way the bible
tells us are enemies of God. No more diversions about light or un-ending 7th days, how about some
scripture that shows that man evolved from apes or any other creature and was not created as man
in God's image, just the way it is recorded in Genesis. You can't.

[alanmolstad]

Obviously. How about proving what you say about evolution going hand in hand with scripture
from the bible. No Darwin, no unproven theories, no non-Christian sources who by the way the bible
tells us are enemies of God. No more diversions about light or un-ending 7th days, how about some
scripture that shows that man evolved from apes or any other creature and was not created as man
in God's image, just the way it is recorded in Genesis. You can't.

I think you misunderstood something..>

Have I ever said that the bible 'taught" evolution?




I will pause now while to think back.....

[alanmolstad]

What we find in the Bible is a story that works with evolution to give us a well-rounded understanding of early earth history.

the story of genesis and the teachings of evolution are able to walk hand in hand with each other.

This does not mean that the teachings of evolution hold that "God did it"
Nor does this mean that in the Genesis text we see the word "evolution" at any point.

What we do find however is that the two works are able to work next to each other.
We find no anti-evolution arguments in the genesis text.

[alanmolstad]

and...most importantly...both Genesis and Evolution trace back all life to the same original source...

[alanmolstad]

Another thing i hear from time to time in the church is that "man" is far different than animals such as the great apes.

They like to point out to me that man is made in the image of God.


My response to this is to just point out that in the bible it will trace back both humans and animals such as the great apes to a common source....(as is taught happens in evolution).

i also point out that while in Mormon teachings, the ideal of a human "body" being in God's image is taught, however in real Christian teachings we do not teach that our human body is made in the image of god...for God does not have a body.

[alanmolstad]

what this means is this...When you trace back all life on the earth according to Evolution, you come to a source...a starting point.

and when you check the Bible's text guess what?...you come to that very same original starting point that you got to in Evolution!!!!|

[alanmolstad]

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.




And...


19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air;



So the ground of this world...the earth itself, is the source for animals life according to the Bible .
But what about for mankind?

Is our source any different?

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

So here we see that the Bible also does trace back human life as well to the earth itself.



This agrees with where Evolution will trace back life to on this planet.

[alanmolstad]

so a guy might try to say,,,"But the Text does not clearly "teach" evolution!"...and thats true.

I can only quote what the bible does say, and as it happens to say something that works with evolution , that is what i quote.

The fact is that evolution and genesis both trace back all life to the very same starting point..the very same source....and its a common source!

But we must never ask Genesis or evolution to do things it does not aim to do.
We should not think less of the bible because we cant find some teaching of modern science listed.
Nor should we think less that evolution because it cant show us God.

[disciple]

what this means is this...When you trace back all life on the earth according to Evolution, you come to a source...a starting point.

and when you check the Bible's text guess what?...you come to that very same original starting point that you got to in Evolution!!!!|

Alan,

Ok for the last time, don't you realize that when you say "according to evolution" you are in fact saying "according to an unproven, made-made theory that has absolutely nothing to do with God or the bible". All of what you are posting is just your opinion, based on your faith in Darwin and those like him. Gosh wake up man you are deceived. Someone should tell you.

[alanmolstad]

I also note that on this forum I have asked 3 questions of anyone who wants to try to answer them about what the bible says...

up until this moment I have yet to see anyone dare answer my 3 questions...


the reason?...they know deep down what im saying is what the bible says too.......(they just dont like that fact)

[alanmolstad]

want to prove me wrong?....fine, open your bible and lets go over a few verses I have found .....

[alanmolstad]

but you wont.....I know you wont.

No YEC believer wants to actually open the Bible and read whats found there, cuz they are too busy telling others that they are sinning by reading the Bible and believeing it.

[alanmolstad]

I read the Bible.

I believe the Bible.

You want to show me Im wrong?....then you better be ready to open your Bible and read what it says there, because im not interested in your views on the way things "look" to others.

Im only interested in what is writen in the Bible....what i can point to in black and white.



If you cant show me your views based on the Bible?...then you are a moot point.

YEC believers that cant or wont open their Bible and answer a few questions about what it says there , are only proving to me that they doubt their own ideas.

and if you dont trust your ideas, why should I?

[disciple]

I read the Bible.

I believe the Bible.

You want to show me Im wrong?....then you better be ready to open your Bible and read what it says there, because im not interested in your views on the way things "look" to others.

Im only interested in what is writen in the Bible....what i can point to in black and white.



If you cant show me your views based on the Bible?...then you are a moot point.

Alan, is evolution a man-made, unproven theory or not? Of course it is. As one who seems to have interest in science you would know that macroevolution has never been observed in the world or duplicated in any lab or experiment. If you believe what evolution says it's because you have faith in that theory. You can't have faith in evolution and the bible, only one can be true.

Romans 1:18-23
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things."

[alanmolstad]

Alan, is evolution a man-made, unproven theory or not? Of course it is. As one who seems to have interest in science you would know that macroevolution has never been observed in the world or duplicated in any lab or experiment. If you believe what evolution says it's because you have faith in that theory. You can't have faith in evolution and the bible, only one can be true.

."

and you cant back up squat with the bible...and so switch to try to attack evolution because your support from the bible is so weak.

But i defend my teachings with the BIBLE!

I give you bible verses to support all that i say.

I never defend evolution, so you can go right a head and cut down evolution all you want.

The way you keep trying to change the subject and attacking evolution just shows me how out of gas your defense of YEC really is....


Open your Bible friend...Read what it says there....try that for a change.

[alanmolstad]

at Genesis 1:24, what does God command to "bring forth" life?

[alanmolstad]

at Genesis 2:19 out of where did God form the animals?

[alanmolstad]

At Genesis 3:19 where does man "return" to when he dies and goes back to where he was from?

[alanmolstad]

At Genesis 1:1 what does the bible say God created first "In the beginning?"

[alanmolstad]

At Genesis 1:16 as seen here in the King James http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/ what words are in italic to show us they were added and do not actually appear in the Hebrew?

[disciple]

and you cant back up squat with the bible...and so switch to try to attack evolution because your support from the bible is so weak.

But i defend my teachings with the BIBLE!

I give you bible verses to support all that i say.

I never defend evolution, so you can go right a head and cut down evolution all you want.

The way you keep trying to change the subject and attacking evolution just shows me how out of gas your defense of YEC really is....


Open your Bible friend...Read what it says there....try that for a change.

Alan,

Just once answer the question. Is evolution a man-made, unproven theory or not?

[alanmolstad]

Alan,

Just once answer the question. Is evolution a man-made, unproven theory or not?nope.....I dont defend evolution...

sorry....Im not qualified to teach on evolution.....



But the Bible I know..
The Bible I can teach!>>>>>so if you want me to answer a question, better make it a bible question.




and I got to tell you, the way you keep ducking my Bible questions only proves to me how out of gas your argument must be...

If you cant pick up the Bible and answer my questions, why right do you have to say Im wrong???????????????????????????????

[disciple]

nope.....I dont defend evolution...

sorry....Im not qualified to teach on evolution.....



Then why do you continue to insist that evolution goes hand in hand with the scriptures? This is very foolish, I'm sorry
I even got into this conversation.

[alanmolstad]

In the past, when someone actually did dare to try to answer my question from a YEC point of view, they would try to tell me what the verse I listed "means"...rather than just want it 'says'

The reason they do this?...they dont like what it says.....so they try to change the topic and tell me what it means rather than what we all can see clearly is says...

[alanmolstad]

Then why do you continue to insist that evolution goes hand in hand with the scriptures? This is very foolish, I'm sorry
I even got into this conversation.
you cant answer the questions yet eh?




how sad.....and how it shows you need to study

[alanmolstad]

1st Peter 3:15
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

[alanmolstad]

so to review: I believe I can prove that the bible teaches the following -








that God made the sun and stars at the beginning.

That the sun, moon and stars were already created by the time we get to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th days.

That the Earth was created as a dead and dry world.

That water came forth from underground, and covered the whole earth.

that the reason the earth was dark at the start of genesis is only because of the thick clouds talked about in the Book of ***.

that all life on this earth is made out of the earth itself, that the Earth is the true source of all life.

That humans are also from the earth...so humans and animals have the source for them in common with each other.

That humans were not crated inside the garden of Eden.

that the 7th day of Genesis has yet to end.








I also believe that I can show you Bible verses that show each of the things in the above list are true...
and as a side note, nothing stands against science or the teachings of Evolution!

[MichaellS]

Then why do you continue to insist that evolution goes hand in hand with the scriptures? This is very foolish, I'm sorry I even got into this conversation.

Please don't be. Glad to see you and Alan. not that that makes a hoot of a difference. But I'll take this up in a thread of my own describing this foolishness sometime soon.

But in that same vein for either you, Alan, or any who cares to make a point:

What are God's people left with when articulation falls short on any issue before them?

Just out of curiosity.

[alanmolstad]

People that have views that they can't support with the bible show us only that their views are based on their personal opinions rather than the bible.

[jude1:3]

and as a side note, nothing stands against science or the teachings of Evolution!



Alan you are pushing a demonic lie and you need to Repent of this.

[jude1:3]

Alan do you remember when I asked you this in post #35 ?


Can I ask you a favor ? Can you please start a new thread in the Creationism/Evolutionism section ? The reason I ask is because this particular thread is about Archaeology and dinosaurs in Anceint Art. The thread is kind of getting derailed a little bit.




And then You replied in post #36:


Sounds good






* Can you Please Keep Your Word and follow through with what you said ?

[alanmolstad]

Alan you are pushing a demonic lie and you need to Repent of this.

Thats a mighty silly thing to say...
(are you like 8-years old?....Am I dealing with a teenager?...is that whats going on here?...)




Anyway, thats a mighty silly thing to say, and it only shows that your whole argument is totally out of gas .


You got nothing to answer me with....and you know it!

You got zip for Bible verses to support your argument.
and when a Christian has no answers to Bible questions is a sign that they dont know squat about the bible.

You are told in the bible to "Be Ready" to give answers!
What happened to you?...
why are you so totally unprepared to share Scripture when requested?
Poor Sunday school where you grew up or something?

All you got is your silly attempts to bring up the boggy man under the bed?
you know full well that will never work with me

Its clear to anyone watching that your Bible-support for your views is out of gas...
Your Bible Verse tank is empty...


So Please, dont embarr*** yourself, keep that personal **** to yourself.

[alanmolstad]

:








* Can you Please Keep Your Word and follow through with what you said ?nope...I dont feel like it......





You can talk about anything you want to talk about.

But let me ***ure you, Im just going and going to keep pointing out that any posts by anybody that seem to support the Young Earth Creationist teachings are wrong.

They are based on false information,
They are errors of both science and errors of theology...

or errors of art interpretation

[MichaellS]

Alan you are pushing a demonic lie and you need to Repent of this.

After repeat attempts, I find Alan either incapable or unwilling to discuss his approach to sound exegete. I was even denied reason when I used the same reasoning being fostered by him to begin the discussion. Interesting, anything that might challenge the “high thing” I called approach to, was to first discuss the foundation – also resisted.

Therein it is more important to substantiate conviction in the word. Yes, as I also detailed. Sorry for the thread misuse. Out of courtesy, we should show some form of manners.

[alanmolstad]

After repeat attempts, I find Alan either incapable or unwilling to discuss his approach to sound exegete. I was even denied reason when I used the same reasoning being fostered by him to begin the discussion. Interesting, anything that might challenge the “high thing” I called approach to, was to first discuss the foundation – also resisted.

Therein it is more important to substantiate conviction in the word. Yes, as I also detailed. Sorry for the thread misuse. Out of courtesy, we should show some form of manners.

Once again you guys simply are afraid to open your Bibles and quote to me a scripture that supports your views of the Book of Genesis.
That only proves to everyone watching that you know I'm right.

I have given you guys chapter and verse, to support my views.
Every single teaching I have shared here and will bring out in the future is always based on a solid foundation of the Bible's text.

You guys got zip....nothing in the Bible supports your views and you know it.

You know what Im saying is true!...admit it!

Clearly you guys got no gas in the old Bible-verse gas tank... :)

It does make me question is perhaps we in the Christian church are as of late not teaching our younger generation to handle the Scriptures?.....Sunday school is failing to teach kids the bible?

Not sure what you might try next to change the topic, but Im sure it will be this or that, or the other thing, anything except for a Bible verse ..
Never a Bible verse!


...Oh no, you guys cant start trying to quote the bible the way Alan does because that would mean you have to try to read the Bible...and reading is hard.



Lets face it guys...you appear to me to have no clue how to get out of the corner that your lack of Bible support has painted you into.



I think you should just admit..."Alan knows his Bible"......and you don't.

"Alan uses his Bible to support his views"....and you can't.

[alanmolstad]

I have shared Scripture that can support each of the following things -






that God made the sun and stars at the beginning.

That the sun, moon and stars were already created by the time we get to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th days.

That the Earth was created as a dead and dry world.

That water came forth from underground, and covered the whole earth.

that the reason the earth was dark at the start of genesis is only because of the thick clouds talked about in the Book of ***.

that all life on this earth is made out of the earth itself, that the Earth is the true source of all life.

That humans are also from the earth...so humans and animals have the source for them in common with each other.

That humans were not crated inside the garden of Eden.

that the 7th day of Genesis has yet to end.

[jude1:3]

You have shown in post #87 that you lack Integrity.



that the 7th day of Genesis has yet to end.
[/B]

This is Not True. Years have p***ed since then. Thousands of Years have p***ed since then.

[DrDavidT]

Just so you know, there is evidence that no one talks about anymore and it is very difficult to get any reference to it. There are caves in south america that hold bones and what those bones reveal is contrary to the evolutionary theory and the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid theory

[jude1:3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1KvFyf0mM

[jude1:3]

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/



http://www.genesispark.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Mesopotamian-Cylinder-Seal.jpg

[alanmolstad]

You dont really believe any of this stuff...so why bring it up?

[DrDavidT]

You dont really believe any of this stuff...so why bring it up?

Ken Ham made a great point once-- when living things live longer, they grow to bigger sizes. the pre-flood world enjoyed extrememely long lifespans thus their growth reflected that reality. The evidence they leave behind of being larger than life leads unbelievers into all kinds of weird theories.

[alanmolstad]

thats just ken's own personal opinion....

I think Ken might use that argument because to some people it sounds correct....
or just it sounds correct 'enough" as long as they dont dig too deep in researching it , :)

[DrDavidT]

thats just ken's own personal opinion....

I think Ken might use that argument because to some people it sounds correct....
or just it sounds correct 'enough" as long as they dont dig too deep in researching it , :)

it may be but i agree with it and like it. it makes sense.

[alanmolstad]

First.....there is no hint that early man was bigger than us...heck due to our diets we are growing bigger each generation....

Next, I am of the point of view that the great numbers we see listed for the age of people back in Bible days, is a simple mis-reading of how people have done counting in the past...

I believe that we will find that the reason some people are listed as livine to a great age is that an error was made in how to list different counting systems...a modern example of whjat i think is going on is if I told you that Im selling something on Ebay, and list the price in both American and in Canadian dollars....only to have someone later report my listing by adding-up the American dollars to the Canadian dollars.....and saying Im asking for something at this wild price.

I learned of this idea back when I was in Bible school and we were ***igned a study of the numbers used in the Old test, and I started to read some of the works by leading translators...

It turns out that the idea that the age numbers are a error due to wronging translated two or more different listings of how people count over the ages and how that has changed, has been widely talked about in higher Christian schools of translation...and is a topic that translators do debate.

[alanmolstad]

Just so you know, there is evidence that no one talks about anymore and it is very difficult to get any reference to it. There are caves in south america that hold bones and what those bones reveal is contrary to the evolutionary theory and the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid theory
I dont kniow about any bones....

I remember learning during my 8-week ORIGINS cl***, about cave paintings, but the truth is, its like looking at clouds...some people see a rabbit driving a rocket in a cloud formation, while the next person sees a chair on a table when they look at the same clouds.



But I believe that if you want to make a great claim, then you need great proof....

There is none to support the idea that some dinosaurs lived to the age of modern man....(except for birds etc...there is strong support for the idea that over time and via evolution, that our birds of today can be traced back to the age of the dinos...)

[disciple]

First.....there is no hint that early man was bigger than us...heck due to our diets we are growing bigger each generation....

Next, I am of the point of view that the great numbers we see listed for the age of people back in Bible days, is a simple mis-reading of how people have done counting in the past...

I believe that we will find that the reason some people are listed as livine to a great age is that an error was made in how to list different counting systems...a modern example of whjat i think is going on is if I told you that Im selling something on Ebay, and list the price in both American and in Canadian dollars....only to have someone later report my listing by adding-up the American dollars to the Canadian dollars.....and saying Im asking for something at this wild price.

I learned of this idea back when I was in Bible school and we were ***igned a study of the numbers used in the Old test, and I started to read some of the works by leading translators...

It turns out that the idea that the age numbers are a error due to wronging translated two or more different listings of how people count over the ages and how that has changed, has been widely talked about in higher Christian schools of translation...and is a topic that translators do debate.

Wouldn't you then have to question all the counting we see in the Old Testament record? Size of armies, numbers of people in various tribes, quan***ies of gold and silver and other riches, numbers of animals sacrificed on holy day's etc.?

[alanmolstad]

Wouldn't you then have to question all the counting we see in the Old Testament record? Size of armies, numbers of people in various tribes, quan***ies of gold and silver and other riches, numbers of animals sacrificed on holy day's etc.?

This is a matter of debate among the higher schools of Bible translation.

What I remember is that there was a work written that discussed the numbers and that the writer made a strong case in the verses he was looking at , that the number listed in a modern translation stems from a misunderstanding of the way several number systems were included in the text over the years.

It was like :...should I measure something to be read in America and then in Canada....the way we count is different than the way they count in Canada due to the metric system...
The writer of the work I remember reading made a strong case that the Bible's number is actually a combination of different ways to count the same age.



This is a subject that Im sure big minds in the church will have to dig deeper into and perhaps one day there will be a finding...



What we want in the end is the real truth...regardless of the many traditions that spring up over the years that might rely on numbers that later turn out to be misunderstood.

[DrDavidT]

I dont kniow about any bones....

I remember learning during my 8-week ORIGINS cl***, about cave paintings, but the truth is, its like looking at clouds...some people see a rabbit driving a rocket in a cloud formation, while the next person sees a chair on a table when they look at the same clouds.



But I believe that if you want to make a great claim, then you need great proof....

There is none to support the idea that some dinosaurs lived to the age of modern man....(except for birds etc...there is strong support for the idea that over time and via evolution, that our birds of today can be traced back to the age of the dinos...)

I know those caves and fissures exist, I have done studies on them. the cave paintings are misdated and misinterpreted. there is no evidence that shows that dinosaurs did NOT live side by side with man.

[alanmolstad]

great claims require great proof...

[DrDavidT]

great claims require great proof...

yes, so does the claim that dinosaurs died out 60 million years ago. the evidence so far presented by evolutionists does not do the trick.

[jude1:3]

2 different examples on Ancient Egyptian coffins showing a Plesiosaur:



https://s4.postimg.org/jp679fwod/dino_m7egyptian_copy.jpg

https://s14.postimg.org/dkk5uordd/Dino_Egypt_2a.jpg

https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/20/38320-004-3CD2DF2A.jpg

[alanmolstad]

Its sorta like looking at the clouds in the sky, and one person sees it looks like a rabbit, but the next guy looks at the same cloud and sees a viking ship.


http://www.paleo.cc/ce/dino-art.htm

[DrDavidT]

Its sorta like looking at the clouds in the sky, and one person sees it looks like a rabbit, but the next guy looks at the same cloud and sees a viking ship.


http://www.paleo.cc/ce/dino-art.htm

hieroglyphics should not be read into. it is a long dead language that few understand let alone grasp what intent or purpose was behind the ancient egyptian use of certain characters.

[jude1:3]

• Fallen Angels Created Dinosaurs (BOOK OF GIANTS / ENOCH)

And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

• 1 Enoch 7



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKVdUmHcp8Y

[DrDavidT]

the previous post is just dumb, has no real content, no real context and ignores the basic rules of kinds.