Mormons are Sometimes Treated Like Trash by their Cult!

[Apologette]

I found this story on another site. It perfectly pictures the evil of Mormonism. Put yourself in the shoes of this poor mother of a dead baby. Consider how Jesus would have reacted - and then consider how this Mormon cult, loveless, disgustingly rigid, treated her:

"This is not a funny story

02/01/2009 - from Anonymous
This is not a funny story. It is a tragic tale of a church that has turned into a corporation. An organization that had a social contract with its members, then exchanged that contract for arrogance and ignorance.

I am a seventh generation Mormon. My ancestors received their endowments in the Nauvoo temple. My great great grandfathers settled the small town in south central Utah where I grew up. My parents live on a street with our family name on the street sign. My father was born in the house that he lives in now, and has lived there his entire life. My parent's ward meets in a chapel built on a part of my dad's old farm, and has our family name as part of its name. The point is, my parents are as Mormon as they come.

My mother was born to a poor family in Thistle, Utah. She was raised by her aunt in Price, Utah where she was befriended by the local Catholic community. She was never baptized a Mormon or a Catholic, but considered herself to be more Catholic than Mormon until High School. This despite her being a direct descendent of five generations of Mormons.

My dad's father was a Mormon Bishop, in the days when being a Mormon Bishop was a big thing. In the early part of the 20th century, before the church became an international business, a Bishop's calling lasted decades, at least it did for my grandpa. When my parents met and got married, though, my mother was not yet a baptized member of the church. She had attended seminary while going to Springville High School, and was familiar with the doctrines of the church.

In 1956, my mother was baptized in August. In October she gave birth to her second child, a son. By February, it was clear that my brother was not going to live long. He suffered from a degenerative nerve disorder that ultimately would lead to paralysis of the diaphragm and cessation of breathing, if not an earlier demise due to the ***ociated pulmonary issues he would suffer. For young people, 22 and 21 years old, this was disheartening news.

By May, it was clear that their son would not live much longer. The Stake President, aware of the difficulties, contacted my parents and asked if they would like to be sealed in the temple to their son before he died. A touching gesture. Although my mother had only been a baptized member for nine-months, a full three months short of the recommended year, the Stake President and my Grandfather (as bishop), felt that my parents wore worthy to attend the temple, receive their endowments, and be sealed to their children. They were sealed in May. My brother died in July of 1957.

Fast forward to the fall of 2006. My brother would have been turning 50 years old. My parents, now in their 70's have lived a long and difficult life. Eight children, two died in infancy of the same disorder. Two sons served missions, all three married children married in the temple. Lifetime's of service to the church in a wide range of callings. My father's health is failing and he has only been to the chapel that bears his name, built on his old farmland, once. He has never met his current Bishop.

The scene is set... this is a recounting of what happened according to my mother...

Two men in their early thirties come to the front door of the eighty year old farm house. Knock, knock. As my mother, suffering from a broken arm and fractured vertebrae in her back from a fall three months earlier struggles to the door, and welcomes the two men dressed in suits in, they extend their hands for a hand shake.

"Hello Sister. I'm Bishop Blank, and this is my first councilor, Brother Blank. We just wanted to stop in and see you and Brother (name) on this nice Sunday afternoon.

"Come on in, I'm so glad you could stop by."

As the men get seated in the small living room, my mother struggles back into her chair.

"Well, we haven't met before, but I've been meaning to come by and see you."

"Thank you for coming."

"Have you and Brother (name) lived here long?"

"Well, you could say that. (name) was born in this house, and it was built by his father on land that his great grandfather homesteaded, so I guess, as a family, we've been here for almost 150 years."

"Oh, I didn't realize you had been here that long. Oh. Well, you have the same last name as the development across the street, were you related to that family?"

"Well, you could say that to. (name)'s family owned all of the property north of the highway down to where the city has it's facilities. All in all, about 600 acres, when you include the meadows down below. That piece across the road was about 12 acres, and we mostly grew corn or sugar beets on it."

"Oh. I see. Well, the reason we're here is because Salt Lake City has asked us to look into some practices of the church that were not conforming to general church policy."

"Uh, huh, I see."

"Yes, well, we noticed in the records that you had not been a member for a full year before you received your endowments. This would have been counter to church policy at the time. Because the proper procedures were not followed, your endowments and sealing may not be valid. The church is asking for us to look into these situations and make a recommendation as to whether you should go to the temple again and redo the ordinances."

"Well, I don't understand. I realize that I hadn't been a member for a full year, but President (Blank) came to us and asked us if we would like to go..."

"Yes, sometimes church leaders overstepped protocol and that has lead to some problems with the records, so..."

"I don't see how (name) and I could possibly go to the temple. He can barely get up to go to the kitchen without needing to stop and rest. His heart is so weak right now, we just take life day to day..."

"Yes, Sister (name), but the Lord would want you to have everything in order. If an ordinance is not done properly, it will not be recognized in heaven."

"Are you saying that you know how the Lord views my sealing to my children and my husband? Are you saying that 50 years after the fact you can second-guess the motivations of our Stake President? Wasn't he called of God then? "

(My mother is feisty!)

"Well, Sister (blank), it isn't like that. God's house is a house of order..."

"It sure is! We were sealed by a Sealer in the temple. He had the authority. I went there with my dying baby to be sealed, and we were sealed. You cannot change that."

"We certainly can. The church in Salt Lake has asked us to review all of these situations and make a recommendation. We would like to know the facts around why you were allowed to go to the temple before the one year had p***ed."

"Look, I don't know you, and you don't know me. I'm not telling you my personal business. Just because you come in here and say you are my Bishop doesn't give you the right to tell me that I am not sealed to my children. You live three houses down the street from me, have lived there for four years, have been my Bishop for two of those, and you have never even stopped to say hello. When my husband had a heart-attack, you didn't send anyone, you didn't call, we didn't even have a note from our home teachers. You and Brother (blank) can just go back to Salt Lake and tell them that they better send someone with more authority than you to tell me that the Lord isn't going to let me into heaven to see my babies when I die."

The two men, shocked, get up to leave. My parents don't move to let them out.

In almost a year, they haven't returned. As far as I know, my parents are still considered to be sealed for time and all eternity.

Me? I'm going straight to hell." (source: http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/bishophell/)

You decide, folks, if the cult didn't treat these poor parents in an evil and diabolical manner.

[Apologette]

bump! Mormons need to learn from those who have gone through the mill!

[Erundur]

But Mormons are frequently treated like trash by anti-Mormons!

[alanmolstad]

But Mormons are frequently treated like trash by anti-Mormons!


from now on we should not make use of that term anymore...

You may use the term "Christian" or "follower of Christ" etc, ....but 'anti-Mormon" is against the rules...

[MickeyS]

from now on we should not make use of that term anymore...

You may use the term "Christian" or "follower of Christ" etc, ....but 'anti-Mormon" is against the rules...

I don't understand, you're against Mormons...so you're "anti" Mormon by definition. It fits much better than calling the LDS church a cult, because by definition the LDS church is a religion. I don't understand your definitions. Why do you find anti-Mormon deragatory, I thought you were proud of that? I'm not at al kidding. Very confusing.



But I'm glad you made that distinction that it's "Christians" and not Christians. Because yes, "Christians" treat Mormons like dirt FAR more often than other Mormons do. Thanks for pointing that out.

So I guess I don't understand the purpose of this thread. Is she giving these Mormons an "atta boy" since she severely dislikes Mormons herself?? Because I haven't seen this person treat ANY Mormon anywhere near as good as those she portrays in this story.

VERY confusing. Can someone explain this to me???

For the record, I'm NOT attacking, I am observing. If I'm incorrect, please point out one time that she has been kind to one member of the LDS church and I will adjust my statement accordingly.

[alanmolstad]

Anti Mormon is not allowed and due to the very poor manners of a few guests I have decided to no longer overlook their name calling.

Thus you may refer to me as a Christian or as a follower of Christ.

[MickeyS]

Anti Mormon is not allowed and due to the very poor manners of a few guests I have decided to no longer overlook their name calling.

Thus you may refer to me as a Christian or as a follower of Christ.

It's ok, I'll stick to "Christian".

[alanmolstad]

Anti ....is no longer going to be tolerated.

My religion is "Christian "
Deal with it...

[MickeyS]

My religion is "Christian "


I know, that's what I said.

[John T]

That is also against the rules at CARM. If you type in "anti" anything, you will get an auto censor posting ****
It was getting to be a curse word, and when I did self edits in bbold red of the terms slung at Christians, I used this phrase in bold red "Edited by Johnt for N-word equivalent" that got the attention of some big people there!

[John T]

But Mormons are frequently treated like trash by Edited by Johnt for N-word equivalent

Only you are responsible for what you post. It is rather foolish to say to another poster, "See what you made me do?"

[John T]

I found this story on another site. It perfectly pictures the evil of Mormonism. Put yourself in the shoes of this poor mother of a dead baby. Consider how Jesus would have reacted - and then consider how this Mormon cult, loveless, disgustingly rigid, treated her:

"This is not a funny story

02/01/2009 - from Anonymous


Because it is so old,
because there is no reference to any person, state or ward
anyone who makes a comment about anything contained therein is foolish

[alanmolstad]

we had a Mormon poster just within the last month or so, that had a hard time remembering his manners....what was his name again..?
Remember the way he was acting?

Yes, I remember now too...LOL

I know I had him on my IGNORE LIST due to bad manners in the past.
But I think he felt that he still could get away with anything and calling people all kinds of names and making the normal Mormon-type personal attacks against Christians.

Whatever happened to him?

[Phoenix]

You may use the term "Christian" or "follower of Christ" etc, ....but 'anti-Mormon" is against the rules...

Prove it by highlighting where it says posters aren't allowed to use the word "anti-Mormon" from the site's official rules. Here they are, and I will underline the ones that I have seen you break in the past.

"Here are the rules.
Violating these will get your account suspended. The following counts as unacceptable behavior on this board:
Disrespectful references to God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as defined by biblical and historic Christianity;
Foul language: cursing, swearing, taking the Lord's name in vain.
Personal character attacks on board members.
Posting of indecent material, text or images.
Multiple usernames. One username per poster.
Misrepresenting yourself as someone else on the board.
Filling up the board with large amounts of pasted material (this includes large pictures).
Posting the same message on multiple boards.
Posting material on behalf of someone who has been banned.
Prior to being banned you will receive ONE warning, unless the offense is grievous in my opinion, then you will be banned immediately.

Additional Rules: Please do not refer to a member by any name other than his or her username. Mocking someone's ideas or beliefs is baiting. Pejorative terms like "liar" or "lying" in reference to other members will be considered personal attacks.

Historical individuals may be categorized as liars as long as primary source citations are used. All quotations must include the complete citation. This is a copyright issue. Do not start threads aimed at a specific board member. Your signature should not include any insulting comments made either by you or another board member, and do not carry over arguments from other boards to the WM Board.

Once banned, you will not be allowed back on the board for a minimum of two weeks.

Any rudeness to the moderator will result in an immediate ban of one week (or more).
You may argue your case respectfully in an email.

If you cannot agree to keep the above rules, please do not enter the board.

Thank you.

(Rules updated 4/07/12)

[alanmolstad]

ok.....

You might want to write this down

[Phoenix]

ok.....

You might want to write this down

I already DID write the rules down

[alanmolstad]

Prove it by highlighting where it says posters aren't allowed to use the word "anti-Mormon"



1 - goto the Home screen of the Walter Martin forum, where it lists all the different sections of the forum.

2 - drop down to the section ***les "Kingdom of the CULTS"

3 - drop down the the section ***les "Mormonism (LDS)"

4 - click on the Mormonism ***le

5 - Now on your screen you will see many ***le of topics.

6 - look at the top of the listed topics for the one listed as being a "Sticky:", meaning that it is an important topic that is kept at the top of the list to show it's importance for the guest.

7 - Look for the "sticky" that has the ***le " Derogatory Terms"

8 - click on the Sticky ***led " Derogatory Terms"

9 - Look for the first post that is by "Jill" who is the daughter of Walter Martin and who owns this message forum.

10 - read the following "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. This applies to terms like "anti-Mormon" and "Circuit Mormon".
Effective immediately, members who use derogatory terms will be warned once, and the second time they will be banned indefinitely without warning. A third infraction will result in a long term account suspension. "








you are welcome.

[Phoenix]

Thanks. The sticky you quoted was made in 2009.
KEVIN'S list of the rules was updated in 2012.


But I did notice this statement by Jill:

"10 - "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

That makes me want to take another look at certain peoples' posts--ones that seem to be using derogatory terms that insult, belittle, or treat a group called "Mormons" with contempt.

Jill goes on to say that

"Effective immediately, members who use derogatory terms will be warned once, and the second time they will be banned indefinitely without warning. A third infraction will result in a long term account suspension. "

Again, thanks for pointing out the standards of behavior that Jill expects of posters who are criticizing LDS beliefs or doctrines or leaders. I am grateful.

I also noticed what Jill said in her 2010 clarification:

"If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

[alanmolstad]

Im glad to help new people learn what goes around here...and what does not go.

and as we see...calling someone an "anti-Mormon" is a serious issue and is only going to get a person in trouble.







Now Im sure some people will disagree with this fact...and they will say they have a right to call people such things regardless of what I have now pointed out to them.

If that is the path they want to walk?..then all I can say is...."Dont get too comfortable, you are not likely going to last long around here"




But most people are not looking for trouble, and when they learn what is expected here to show other guests good manners, they have no problem adapting and marching in step with the rest of the forum....the Golden Rule helps a lot there.

But some people do come here looking only for ways to get around the rules...they are always seeking to find out how much they can get away with.

We had a Mormon guy here within the last month or two who unfortunately felt that way...
("had" is the key word in that sentence)

[Phoenix]

thanks for the additional info. i do have additional questions: as you may know, Donald trump said this week that abortion is a bad thing, and he seemed to imply that there should be laws against abortion. And as you may know, there are groups of people who believe the same thing--that most abortions are an evil that should be opposed and outlawed. These groups work tirelessly in their opposition to abortion. They use some pretty harsh terms to describe what abortion is ("abortion is murder," etc.) and to describe the people who do abortions ("they're monsters"), or who support abortion, or who support keeping it legal, etc.

So my question is: is it wrong to refer to Donald trump and these other people who are against abortion, opposed to abortion, and who say a lot of bad things about abortion and its followers, as being anti-abortion? Should the people who zealously oppose abortion feel insulted if others refer to them as anti-abortion? What if those people were actually okay with being called anti-abortion protestors, or anti-abortion Christians---would that be weird for them to be proud of the term?

Thanks.

[alanmolstad]

thanks for the additional info. i do have additional questions: as you may know, Donald trump said this week that abortion is a bad thing, and he seemed to imply that there should be laws against abortion. And as you may know, there are groups of people who believe the same thing--that most abortions are an evil that should be opposed and outlawed. These groups work tirelessly in their opposition to abortion. They use some pretty harsh terms to describe what abortion is ("abortion is murder," etc.) and to describe the people who do abortions ("they're monsters"), or who support abortion, or who support keeping it legal, etc.

So my question is: is it wrong to refer to Donald trump and these other people who are against abortion, opposed to abortion, and who say a lot of bad things about abortion and its followers, as being anti-abortion? Should the people who zealously oppose abortion feel insulted if others refer to them as anti-abortion? What if those people were actually okay with being called anti-abortion protestors, or anti-abortion Christians---would that be weird for them to be proud of the term?

Thanks.
found this post by accident !
for some unknown reason this post does not pop-up in my "Whats New"section???

[alanmolstad]

is it wrong to refer to Donald trump and these other people who are against abortion, opposed to abortion, and who say a lot of bad things about abortion and its followers, as being anti-abortion? .


You mean the people that are "Pro-Life" and prefer to be called "pro-Life"?



as for what to call Trump?....
I think you will be calling him "Mr President" very soon....

[Phoenix]

found this post by accident !
for some unknown reason this post does not pop-up in my "Whats New"section???

That's okay. might be a server glitch or something like that

[Phoenix]

I agree that many of the people who fight against abortion and against those who spread it, prefer to be called pro-life.

But I think many don't mind being referred to as being anti-abortion. Is it really a derogatory insult to call them anti-abortion?

[alanmolstad]

Probably...

[Phoenix]

when the doctor told me to take medicine to keep my blood from clotting too easily, he called it an anti-coagulant. at the time, I didn't think there was anything unusual or derogatory about that term, but now, i am starting to wonder.

[alanmolstad]

The thing with no longer Turing a blind eye to name calling and my being called "anti-mormon" is that it makes it sound like I'm against "people".
I'm not.
I have had a few friends like Fig who were orion yet never felt I was attacking th as people.

I'm a Christian and as such I seek truth...
Thus rather being against something of someone I stand for someone...stand for something.

But telling truth to they who hide from the truth can make waves. .

So be it.

[alanmolstad]

On my phone...I will correct the spell check later on the computer
..lol

[Phoenix]

Don't worry about it. my phone has done the same to me. what you meant is still easy to figure out.

[alanmolstad]

So my advice....learn to adapt to the rules.

Understand that the new attention to some rules by self is only do to very poor behavior of a now banned mormon guest...and is aimed at toning down some posts attacks

[alanmolstad]

So my advice....learn to adapt to the rules.

Understand that the new attention to some rules by self is only do to very poor behavior of a now banned mormon guest...and is aimed at toning down some posts attacks

[Phoenix]

not a bad idea. some of the "skirt sniffing" type rhetoric was getting a little close to the line of appropriateness

[alanmolstad]

Never think for one moment that sniffing after skirts was not all that Smith was after...just ask his wife.

This Smith was truly is a devil.
The lowest of of human life who used his position in his religion to take sexual conquests of younger girls

[alanmolstad]

I was reading that one account of when Smith was kind of on the run and he was staying with some of his followers. ..you would think he would mind his mannersright?

But nope...even on the run the guy is approaching young girls in the house.....

[MickeyS]

I agree that many of the people who fight against abortion and against those who spread it, prefer to be called pro-life.

But I think many don't mind being referred to as being anti-abortion. Is it really a derogatory insult to call them anti-abortion?

Yes, they do not mind being called anti-abortion. They're against abortion and all that it stands for....ANTI-abortion.

What they don't like being called, is anti-choice.

Let's look at the word

anti- noun- opposed to; against.

I still don't understand the problem.

[alanmolstad]

well.....from now on I guess I could ask the owner of this forum for one more little rule...

"From now on the word "Mormon" is banned!!!

In place of the word "Mormon" all people will use the term "Anti-Christian"....or "Anti-Christ"......

after all these same people are against Christians and the Christ of the bible..so I dont understand what the problem is?....

So from now on Micky , you are no longer a "Mormon" here....you are simply an "Anti-Christian"





yes......that works for me....I dont see any issues...

I will write a note to the owner of this forum and get set up for that new rule tonight!!!!

[Phoenix]

Never think for one moment that sniffing after skirts was not all that Smith was after...just ask his wife.

This Smith was truly is a devil.
The lowest of of human life who used his position in his religion to take sexual conquests of younger girls

So all this talk about wanting to clean up the language of the posters, stop the poor, crude behavior, get things out of the gutter... wasn't really sincere? It was all about censoring a much less crude, less slanderous term that merely indicates being against something. I am disappointed.
You might want to re-read rule

"10 - "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

And rule "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

[alanmolstad]

when the doctor told me to take medicine to keep my blood from clotting too easily, he called it an anti-coagulant. at the time, I didn't think there was anything unusual or derogatory about that term, but now, i am starting to wonder.
live and learn......

[alanmolstad]

So all this talk about wanting to clean up the language of the posters, stop the poor, crude behavior, get things out of the gutter... wasn't really sincere? It was all about censoring a much less crude, less slanderous term that merely indicates being against something. I am disappointed.
You might want to re-read rule

"10 - "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

And rule "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."
Smith cheated on his wife with married women..young underage girls..and about anything that could wear a skirt an fog a mirror.

A persons got to be able and willing to back it up...

If you want me to back up the fact that I talk about Smith's skirt chasing?........Im game!

If you want this topic to switch around and just be about the question of how fast Smith's pants would hit the floor when a new maid came to stay with him and his wife?...no problem there...

tons and tons of websites...
Tons and tons of videos I can post....No problem....

Just takes a second to do a GOOGLE search for "MORMON SMITH SEX"


Just let me know anyone wants to see some links to information on Smith's sexual conquests and I will be MORE than happy to serve you right up!



(and if you are a Mormon guest and reading about Smith's sexual promiscuity but dont want to log-on and have other Mormons learn you are curious to learn the truth about Smith?....just sent me a PRIVATE MESSAGE and i will send you some links)

[Phoenix]

"10 - "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

And rule "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."


i am fairly disappointed

[MickeyS]

well.....from now on I guess I could ask the owner of this forum for one more little rule...

"From now on the word "Mormon" is banned!!!

In place of the word "Mormon" all people will use the term "Anti-Christian"....or "Anti-Christ"......

after all these same people are against Christians and the Christ of the bible..so I dont understand what the problem is?....

So from now on Micky , you are no longer a "Mormon" here....you are simply an "Anti-Christian"





yes......that works for me....I dont see any issues...

I will write a note to the owner of this forum and get set up for that new rule tonight!!!!

But I'm not anti-Christian, I very much believe in the Christ of the Bible. Plus I don't oppose everything that other Christians believe....hence, NOT anti-Christian.

But there are those who completely OPPOSE Mormonism and EVERYTHING it entails, and are very open and proud of the fact. Therefore anti-, but I guess it you prefer anti-Mormonism better, that makes it clearer

Do you understand the difference.

[alanmolstad]

But I'm not anti-Christian,.too late...its already decided by secret vote....

be it resolved that from now on all Mormons to this forum shall always refer to themselves as "Anti-Christian"....case-closed..."I still don't understand the problem".....case-closed, done-deal....

No use arguing that you are not "anti" anything....no point in pointing all the things you are pushing.
Its already decided that we Christians 'feel' you are anti enough and act anti enough to justify the term "anti-Christian"




I dont see a problem.....




oh wait.....perhaps I do....

and with luck perhaps you do too....

[alanmolstad]

trust me.....learn the rules,,and live within them...Its the best advice you can take to stay off my growing IGNORE LIST....

[MickeyS]

too late...its already decided by secret vote....

be it resolved that from now on all Mormons to this forum shall always refer to themselves as "Anti-Christian"....case-closed..."I still don't understand the problem".....case-closed, done-deal....

No use arguing that you are not "anti" anything....no point in pointing all the things you are pushing.
Its already decided that we Christians 'feel' you are anti enough and act anti enough to justify the term "anti-Christian"




I dont see a problem.....




oh wait.....perhaps I do....

and with luck perhaps you do too....

I'm not arguing, I was merely showing you what anti means.

But, you decided to say I "act" "anti-Christian" which is completely untrue. Show me anywhere where I have opposed, mocked, belittled or campaigned against anybody's beliefs. I do not mock the beliefs of others. Ever.

If I point out somebody's personal behavior, it NEVER has anything to do with the things they believe, it is ALWAYS about the way they behave and express their contempt for the beliefs of others.

Then there are those who only talk about how they oppose the LDS church in its entirety.

I understand you can make the rules anything you want, but I still don't think you understand the concept of anti.

[MickeyS]

It is disappointing....I have never been able to understand why some rules are posted if they're never followed. :(

[alanmolstad]

I'm not arguing, I was merely showing you what anti means.

But, you decided to say I "act" "anti-Christian" which is completely untrue. Show me anywhere where I have opposed, mocked, belittled or campaigned against anybody's beliefs. I do not mock the beliefs of others. Ever.

If I point out somebody's personal behavior, it NEVER has anything to do with the things they believe, it is ALWAYS about the way they behave and express their contempt for the beliefs of others.

Then there are those who only talk about how they oppose the LDS church in its entirety.

I understand you can make the rules anything you want, but I still don't think you understand the concept of anti.
sigh...well I tried to show you.





what can I say, some days I get lucky and the other person catches my drift...

other days?...not so much.




lets just move on..
I suggest you just go with the flow on this one kids..the flow that use of the term "Anti-Christian"will be an issue with me personally .

Why?....its after the Mormon poster "The way's"actions and his bad manners,

I have went over and over why this is...so its time to use my own advice it seems... ..use of a term that is banned will only result from now on with the person on my IGNORE LIST with no warning...

[Phoenix]

so those of us who are pro-Mormon could, if we wanted to, call the enemies and attackers of the Mormon church "anti-Christians"---even if it may not be true--but we could do it, because there is no rule against it?

that seems kind of saddening

[alanmolstad]

boy.....they really squeal when they don't get to use their favorite word anymore...

[BigJulie]

boy.....they really squeal when they don't get to use their favorite word anymore...

Oh my!!-- belittle our prophet, use derogatory terms to describe our beliefs and then get bent out of shape by the word "anti-Mormon" (and make sure there is a rule that you can't use it).

Matthew 7:5 comes to mind here.

[alanmolstad]

Oh my!!-- belittle our prophet, use derogatory terms to describe our beliefs and then get bent out of shape by the word "anti-Mormon" (and make sure there is a rule that you can't use it).

Matthew 7:5 comes to mind here.ahhh,,,,the so-called "prophet" was guilty of adultery and clearly a sexual pervert/conman, who invented his religion to get into the coin purse of his followers and into a bed with their wives.

and asking people to follow the rules should not be seen as asking too much from people.

[BigJulie]

ahhh,,,,the so-called "prophet" was guilty of adultery and clearly a sexual pervert/conman, who invented his religion to get into the coin purse of his followers and into a bed with their wives.

and asking people to follow the rules should not be seen as asking too much from people.

That is your view. I suppose that there are others who view Christ as a devil as well, but those who listen to the Spirit, knew and know that such views are nothing but the opinion of a man.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons."

If Christ, being perfect, is accused of being of the devil, I am not at all surprised that there are those who would accuse Joseph Smith, who is not perfect, of being perverted/conman.

[BigJulie]

ahhh,,,,the so-called "prophet" was guilty of adultery and clearly a sexual pervert/conman, who invented his religion to get into the coin purse of his followers and into a bed with their wives.

and asking people to follow the rules should not be seen as asking too much from people.

(This might be a duplicate post--the site is having problems.)
That is your view. I suppose that there are others who view Christ as a devil as well, but those who listen to the Spirit, knew and know that such views are nothing but the opinion of a man.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons."

If Christ, being perfect, is accused of being of the devil, I am not at all surprised that there are those who would accuse Joseph Smith, who is not perfect, of being perverted/conman.

[BigJulie]

ahhh,,,,the so-called "prophet" was guilty of adultery and clearly a sexual pervert/conman, who invented his religion to get into the coin purse of his followers and into a bed with their wives.

and asking people to follow the rules should not be seen as asking too much from people.

That is your view. I suppose that there are others who view Christ as a devil as well, but those who listen to the Spirit, knew and know that such views are nothing but the opinion of a man.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons."

If Christ, being perfect, is accused of being of the devil, I am not at all surprised that there are those who would accuse Joseph Smith, who is not perfect, of being perverted/conman.

[Phoenix]

every founder of every church was guilty of every sin, according to Christians who believe that everybody who commits one sin commits them all.

so if that is accurate, then the most vile things the enemies of the mormons say about the founder of the l d s church, can and should be said about the founder of the baptist church, the Methodist church, the presbyterian church, the Lutheran church, the calvary chapel church, etc.

[BigJulie]

every founder of every church was guilty of every sin, according to Christians who believe that everybody who commits one sin commits them all.

so if that is accurate, then the most vile things the enemies of the mormons say about the founder of the l d s church, can and should be said about the founder of the baptist church, the Methodist church, the presbyterian church, the Lutheran church, the calvary chapel church, etc.

Very true.

[alanmolstad]

That is your view. I suppose that there are others who view Christ as a devil as well, but those who listen to the Spirit, knew and know that such views are nothing but the opinion of a man.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons."

If Christ, being perfect, is accused of being of the devil, I am not at all surprised that there are those who would accuse Joseph Smith, who is not perfect, of being perverted/conman.
If you have even the slightest doubt about what im ever saying, you just let me know....

For we can stop this topic right here and switch gears and dig deeply into the sick perversions of this man Smith..
The skirt chasing, the going from bed to bed...sister to sister..even mother to daughter?....

Too underage?...no problem for smith.
Married already?...no problem for Smith...

Smith had no problem sending a husband out of town and when he knew it was safe, he 'came a calling"


so if you think I have made up even one word of what im posting about her sexual perversions, just ask me to start posting some support for what im saying, and i will...I will be HAPPY to do so too!

There are Plenty of links that go over in detail what kinky stuff Smith got into.

there are plenty of YouTube video I can link to...



Just ask .......just ask....

[BigJulie]

If you have even the slightest doubt about what im ever saying, you just let me know....

For we can stop this topic right here and switch gears and dig deeply into the sick perversions of this man Smith..
The skirt chasing, the going from bed to bed...sister to sister..even mother to daughter?....

Too underage?...no problem for smith.
Married already?...no problem for Smith...

Smith had no problem sending a husband out of town and when he knew it was safe, he 'came a calling"


so if you think I have made up even one word of what im posting about her sexual perversions, just ask me to start posting some support for what im saying, and i will...I will be HAPPY to do so too!

There are Plenty of links that go over in detail what kinky stuff Smith got into.

there are plenty of YouTube video I can link to...



Just ask .......just ask....

I am sure you can find many, many gossipy, disparaging videos of just about anyone who is well known. Like I said, there were those who knew Jesus Christ whose only response to him was "crucify him"--not unlike your own propensity for violence against those in which you disagree.

Having lived by the revelations given to Joseph Smith, having married a man who learned to be true and faithful to his wife because of Christ's gospel, and having experienced your own willingness for violence, vulgar, and gossip--I'll stick with Joseph Smith.

[alanmolstad]

I am sure you can find many, many gossipy, disparaging videos of just about anyone who is well known. Like I said, there were those who knew Jesus Christ whose only response to him was "crucify him"--not unlike your own propensity for violence against those in which you disagree.

Having lived by the revelations given to Joseph Smith, having married a man who learned to be true and faithful to his wife because of Christ's gospel, and having experienced your own willingness for violence, vulgar, and gossip--I'll stick with Joseph Smith.
Just let me know if you have any doubts.....

[BigJulie]

Just let me know if you have any doubts.....

No. The more I learn about "christians" like yourself who calls for violence against others, who look at the worst in others and the best in themselves--no, I really have no interest in what you have to say. Sorry.

[alanmolstad]

any doubts at all ,about anything I have said...any question that I have made something up, or perhapsyou believe I have invented a wild story...any request for supporting information on whatever I have posted, ..........just let me know.....


for there is a rich supply to look at...







So if anyone wants to see what supporting proof there is to anything I have said about the vast sexual sickness of Mormon founder and prophet Smith, just let me know..

( Or send me a private message and I would be very happy to show what there is.)

[BigJulie]

any doubts at all ,about anything I have said...any question that I have made something up, or perhapsyou believe I have invented a wild story...any request for supporting information on whatever I have posted, ..........just let me know.....


for there is a rich supply to look at...







So if anyone wants to see what supporting proof there is to anything I have said about the vast sexual sickness of Mormon founder and prophet Smith, just let me know..

( Or send me a private message and I would be very happy to show what there is.)

Not worth looking at. I know Joseph Smith's history. I also know that there are those who, through their own perverted outlook on life, give it their own spin. I don't read today's tabloids as well.

[John T]

Not worth looking at. I know Joseph Smith's history. I also know that there are those who, through their own perverted outlook on life, give it their own spin. I don't read today's tabloids as well.


Can you say the same thing about Warren Jeffs?
Or Davis Koresh?
Or Jim Jones?
or many other sex-cult leaders?

[BigJulie]

Can you say the same thing about Warren Jeffs?
Or Davis Koresh?
Or Jim Jones?
or many other sex-cult leaders?

Warren Jeffs: In prison.
David Koresh: Killed by one of his followers.
Jim Jones: Killed off his followers.

My husband, who has believed in the revelations given to Joseph Smith saved himself for me-- his wife, has been a faithful husband and kind father.
The fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ as revealed to Joseph Smith lead to happiness. The proof of who he is is in the pudding.

[alanmolstad]

Warren Jeffs: In prison.
David Koresh: Killed by one of his followers.
Jim Jones: Killed off his followers.

.
Smith : Killed by mob enraged by his sexual deviancy

[alanmolstad]

The proof of who he is is in the pudding.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating...


Warren Jeffs, claimed to be a prophet of god, used this as a way to have sex with young girls.

David Koresh, claimed to be a prophet of god, used this as a way to have sex with young girls.

jim Jones, claimed to be a prophet of God, used this as a way to have sex with ...er...both young boys and young girls?..(is that right,?.. ufta that guy was a sicko)

Joe Smith,also claimed to be yet another prophet of god,and like the others, used this to have sex with younger girls and even the married wives of his followers. (speaking of a sicko)



the proof of the pudding is in the eating...you find out about people by opening up their hidden lives in the light of truth....and in this light we see clearly that all these guys were some suck puppies...


It seems like one of the key reasons some people say they are a "prophet" is that they can use this position as a means tohave sexual advantage over others...
"Dont worry lady,God says its ok for me to do this to you"

[MickeyS]

Smith : Killed by mob enraged by his sexual deviancy

Killed by criminal cowards who couldn't even show their faces and many of whom fled for their lives to avoid prosecution.

But what happened to the church after Joseph's "criminal activity" was "exposed"?? Did it flounder?? Did it die off?? Not even over a thousand mile exodus and many lives lost could destroy the church. How many of Julie's examples are thriving today?? Are respected by ANYBODY but their own members if they still exist?

True cults are focused around an individual...once that individual is dead or in jail...the cult dwindles or dies off. The LDS church does not center their teachings around a PERSON. The gospel is centered around JESUS CHRIST. Visit a meetinghouse anywhere to see what images are on our walls. NOT Joseph Smith. JESUS CHRIST. Joseph Smith merely brought the truth. Like Moses...did God's people worship Moses? The twelve apostles? The prophet is a tool for God Himself to give His word to His people.

[MickeyS]

Joe Smith,also claimed to be yet another prophet of god,and like the others, used this to have sex with younger girls and even the married wives of his followers. (speaking of a sicko)

Wrong answer....again, if that were true....the church would still be led by the type of men you claimed Joseph Smith to be. Your comparison HOLDS NO WATER, at all. Not even close.

Show me one truly evil cult that any good has come out of?? That any righteousness has been established? There is none....they don't exist.

[MickeyS]

It seems like one of the key reasons some people say they are a "prophet" is that they can use this position as a means tohave sexual advantage over others...
"Dont worry lady,God says its ok for me to do this to you"

Oh, you mean like Abraham?

[Phoenix]

"dont worry, God says its ok for me to do this to you" seems like what the Christians in power at the time said to the victims of the crusades, the inquisitions, and the Salem witch trials. and to michael servetus and to the McMartin preschool owners.

[John T]

Killed by criminal cowards who couldn't even show their faces and many of whom fled for their lives to avoid prosecution.

But what happened to the church after Joseph's "criminal activity" was "exposed"?? Did it flounder?? Did it die off?? Not even over a thousand mile exodus and many lives lost could destroy the church. How many of Julie's examples are thriving today?? Are respected by ANYBODY but their own members if they still exist?

True cults are focused around an individual...once that individual is dead or in jail...the cult dwindles or dies off. The LDS church does not center their teachings around a PERSON. The gospel is centered around JESUS CHRIST. Visit a meetinghouse anywhere to see what images are on our walls. NOT Joseph Smith. JESUS CHRIST. Joseph Smith merely brought the truth. Like Moses...did God's people worship Moses? The twelve apostles? The prophet is a tool for God Himself to give His word to His people.

Joseph took the US Cons***ution in his hands and shredded the FIRST AMENDMENT when his band of thugs destroyed the printing press of the Navoo Expositor.
Joseph and his band of thugs began EVERY one of the "Mormon Wars" and took arms against the citizens and state . That is called SEDITION and is a capital offence.
The Mormons also lost every one of the "mormon Wars"

Here are a few sentences from a manifesto published in 1833 which enumerates some of the legitimate grievances of the people and state of Missouri against the Mormons:


...and if they had been respectable citizens in society and thus deluded it would have been en***led to our pity rather than to our contempt and hatred; but from their parents, from their manners, and from their conduct since their coming among us, we have every reason to fear that, with but very few exceptions, they were of the very drags of that society from which they came, lazy, idle, and vicious.

... and we fear that of some of the leaders amongst them, had paid to forfeit due to crime, instead of being chosen amb***adors of the Most High, they would have been inmates of solitary cells. But their conduct here stands their characters in their true colors. More than a year since, it was ascertained that they had been tampering with our slaves, and endeavoring to sow dissensions and raise seditions amongst them.

... this exhibits them in still more odious colors. It manifests a desire on the part of their society, to inflict on our society an injury that they know would be to us entirely insupportable, and one of the surest means of driving us from the country; for it would require none of the supernatural gifts that they pretend to, to see that the introduction of such a caste among us would corrupt our blacks, and instigate them to bloodshed. (Remember that until 1978, blacks were prohibited from becoming priests)

... They declare openly that their God hath given them this country of land, and that sooner or later they must and will have possession of our lands for inheritance; and, in fine, they have conducted themselves on many other occasions, and such a manner, that we believe it a duty we owe to ourselves, our wives, and children, to the cause of public morals, to remove them from among us, as we are not prepared to give up our pleasant places and goodly possessions to them or to receive into the bosom of our families, as fit companions for wives and daughters, the degraded and corrupted free Negroes and mulattos that are now invited to settle among us. ["Morals" is code word for wife swapping, and it was unmentionable because it was so heinous]

Under such a state of things, even our beautiful country would cease to be a desirable residence, and our situation intolerable. We, therefore agree (that after timely warning, and receiving an adequate compensation for what little property they cannot take with them, they refuse to leave us in peace, as they found us — we agree to use such means as may be sufficient to remove them, and to that and we each pledge to each other are bodily powers, our lives, fortunes and sacred honors.


Several hundreds of people signed the Manifesto, their names and positions are somewhat irrelevant, but the fact that this Manifesto was published and led to the 1838 Expulsion order bu the Governor of the State is immensely significant

/
After 5 years time, that Manifesto led to the Expulsion Order, part of which reads:
/


... our orders are, therefore, to hasten your operation with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace--their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may consider necessary. I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Willock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen. Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north. They have been directed to communicate with you by express, you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead therefore of proceeding as at first directed to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond and then operate against the Mormons
/

The time frame is important because there was resistance at Haun's Mill, and while the details are sketchy, the result was that 18 men and boys died when they challenged those 500 armed state militia men with their weapons in an insipid and futile attempt to fight that Expulsion Order.



"Halt!" commanded the leader of a band of well-mounted and well-armed mobocrats, who charged down upon them as they journeyed on their way."If you proceed any farther west," said the captain, "you will be instantly shot." "Wherefore?" inquired the pilgrims.
"You are d__d Mormons!"
"We are law-abiding Americans, and have given no cause of offence."
"You are d__d Mormons. That's offence enough.
Within ten days every Mormon must be out of Missouri, or men, women, and children will be shot down indiscriminately.
No mercy will be shown. It is the order of the Governor that you should all be exterminated; and by G_d you will be."[1]
[1] Tullidge, Edward W. (1877). The Women of Mormondom (https://archive.org/details/womenofmormondom00tullrich). New York City: Platt & Peters. pg 177- [coloring the dialog added to help readers]
/
all quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Executive_Order_44

In your statement, you fail to take into consideration the long, slow grind of history, and how the contravening FIVE YEARS did nothing to make the Mormons and non-Mormons become more peaceful. THAT is the hallmark of a leader; s/he sees what will come in the future simply by seeing the current state of affairs, and seeks to prevent any damage to what happened in the past become a continuous, and future event.

The events of Navoo demonstrate that the lessons of the Manifesto and subsequent Executive Order were not learned, and THAT falls squarely on the shoulders of Smith, and his fellow leaders. As one historian, a Frenchman, I think once stated "Those who fail to understand the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them."

[John T]

Oh, you mean like Abraham?

Please cite sources from the Bible that document whatever it is that you are alleging about Abraham.

[John T]

Oh, you mean like Abraham?

Please cite from the Bible whatever it is that you are alleging about Abraham

[Apologette]

But Mormons are frequently treated like trash by anti-Mormons!

Not a legitimate response. Christians I know don't treat other Christians like trash.

[Apologette]

"dont worry, God says its ok for me to do this to you" seems like what the Christians in power at the time said to the victims of the crusades, the inquisitions, and the Salem witch trials. and to michael servetus and to the McMartin preschool owners.

Hi Jeff! Come here in between suspensions?

[BigJulie]

"dont worry, God says its ok for me to do this to you" seems like what the Christians in power at the time said to the victims of the crusades, the inquisitions, and the Salem witch trials. and to michael servetus and to the McMartin preschool owners.

Phoenix, are you nrajeff? Apologette seems to think so. Just curious. If you are--hello!

[BigJulie]

Please cite from the Bible whatever it is that you are alleging about Abraham

Abraham: Gen 25:12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham:

Jacob: Gen 31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set his sons and his wives upon camels;

Esau: Gen 36:6 And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.

Gideon: Jdg 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

Samuel's mom was a second wife: 1Sa 1:2 And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.

David and Solomon, of course.

Ashur: 1Ch 4:5 And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah.

Abijah: 2Ch 13:21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives, and begat twenty and two sons, and sixteen daughter

Jehoida: 2Ch 24:2-3 And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.

[MickeyS]

Hi Jeff! Come here in between suspensions?

Phoenix is here on a regular basis, always. Why would you think someone would come here in between suspensions from another forum?? Hmmmmm......

[BigJulie]

Phoenix is here on a regular basis, always. Why would you think someone would come here in between suspensions from another forum?? Hmmmmm......

Exactly! :) :) :)

[Erundur]

Not a legitimate response.
Of course it is!


Christians I know don't treat other Christians like trash.
Same here, but many Protestants treat Christians like trash!

[Apologette]

Phoenix is here on a regular basis, always. Why would you think someone would come here in between suspensions from another forum?? Hmmmmm......

I know who he is.

[Apologette]

Of course it is!


Same here, but many Protestants treat Christians like trash!

Apparently you don't know what a Christian is - they certainly aren't a bunch of polytheists out of Salt Lake City who follow a pedophile prophet like Joe Smith. Mormonism is nothing more than a pagan cult.

[Erundur]

Apparently you don't know what a Christian is -
Oh, I think I do!


they certainly aren't a bunch of polytheists out of Salt Lake City who follow a pedophile prophet like Joe Smith.
I didn't suggest they were!


Mormonism is nothing more than a pagan cult.
No, you're thinking of Calvary Chapel Anglicanism!