Why False Doctrine?

[jade84116]

Is it possible to receive faith from God in error from Satan and, if not, what're the implications of such?:)

[sayso]

Is it possible to receive faith from God in error from Satan and, if not, what're the implications of such?:)

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "from God in error from satan". Could you clarify what you mean?

[jade84116]

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "from God in error from satan". Could you clarify what you mean?
Let me restate. Is it possible to exercise saving faith unto salvation after hearing and embracing false doctrine?:)

[johnd]

Loaded question.

Try being more specific. What error?

[jade84116]

Loaded question.

Try being more specific. What error?

The God Family of the Armstrongites for example. The denial of a personal Satan by the Christadelphians for another example.:)

[johnd]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

If one does not believe in the genuine Jesus in the first place, it doesn't matter what else they believe incorrectly. They are going to hell. You list Armstrongites and Christadelphians both of which believe in a false Christ.

I thought for a moment you were serious...

[PostTribber]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

[PostTribber]

Is it possible to exercise saving faith unto salvation after hearing and embracing false doctrine?:)

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:17)

"God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." (1 Corinthians 14:33)

"I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth." (1 John 2:21)

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a lyar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

false doctrine would lead to false salvation. and since "only God can forgive sin", only God's doctrine is worth hearing and embracing.



[ P.S. this site won't allow the word l-i-a-r. watch .... **** .... see? I told you ]

[solafide55]

Let me restate. Is it possible to exercise saving faith unto salvation after hearing and embracing false doctrine?:)

Yes, so long as you profess the correct doctrine of justification by grace through faith. However, God's sheep hear his voice and if someone has some wacky notions about other doctrines I would imagine 9.9 - 10 times out of 10 they are way off on the doctrine of justification.

[johnd]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

If one does not believe in the genuine Jesus in the first place, it doesn't matter what else they believe incorrectly. They are going to hell. You list Armstrongites and Christadelphians both of which believe in a false Christ.

I thought for a moment you were serious...

Let me add this...

It is possible to believe and have erroneous doctrines. There is in fact no perfect theology practiced or exercised by man, but rather God has condescended to allow for certain imperfections... but I reiterate:

you have to be taught and believe in the genuine Jesus or you are continuing on to hell (John 3:18). About this there is no compromise. If a body is being taught the genuine Jesus and they receive him they are saved. They do not have to have theology degrees or perfect theology. Just the genuine Jesus. If another Jesus is taught by cultists to an individual who accepts that Jesus they are not saved because the Jesus they fell for is not the genuine Jesus whose name alone is the one by which we must be saved.

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

[Jean Chauvin]

You must define what you mean by faith. The way you posed the question does NOT allow for a Biblical definition of faith.

Faith has two synonyms in the Bible.

1) Belief

2) Knowledge.

And Faith and Knowledge and Belief are often used interchangeably.

So, your question, if you understand faith as knowledge, is extremely poor in how you ask the question.

Since you can only know what is, then you can never have knowledge from Satan, since Satan is the father of lies.

And since God does not lie (***us 1:2), then one's faith is always from God.

Though logically, we get that knowledge (faith) from Scripture alone. Deut 29:29: says there is hidden revelation, perhaps for a future time, I don't know.

But for now, our faith is from the Bible, and we know what we know because the Bible tells us so. (II Timothy 3:16-17).

All forms of ignorance and probabilities are non-faith. All forms of knowledge are faith.

It's that simple.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

[alanmolstad]

The God Family of the Armstrongites for example. The denial of a personal Satan by the Christadelphians for another example.:)

well. no

with the examples you gave you would not be within the Christian faith if you got sucked into such things.


However thats not really an issue because God has given his word that if we seek him we will find him...so while a person theology might be in error for a while, the important thing is to keep on asking, keep on seeking....

[ErikErik]

well. no

with the examples you gave you would not be within the Christian faith if you got sucked into such things.


However thats not really an issue because God has given his word that if we seek him we will find him...so while a person theology might be in error for a while, the important thing is to keep on asking, keep on seeking....

What faith do you belong to Alan? There are many mormons, for example, that pray and ask and seek, but they are still firm believers in their false religion and claim to have testimony from the Holy Spirit that they have the Truth. Why do you think that is?

[alanmolstad]

......There are many Mormons, for example, that pray and ask and seek, .........

Not just Mormons, but people from all over the world of different faiths...all seeking, all knocking on the door looking for God.

Im saying only that if they keep at it, they will find him,,,,regardless of the situation they currently find themselves within.

perhaps Walter martin says it better than I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXMUDC_pw8&feature=related

But you get the main idea.....

[ErikErik]

Not just Mormons, but people from all over the world of different faiths...all seeking, all knocking on the door looking for God.

Im saying only that if they keep at it, they will find him,,,,regardless of the situation they currently find themselves within.

perhaps Walter martin says it better than I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXMUDC_pw8&feature=related

But you get the main idea.....

Why did you cut out my first sentence? What faith do you belong to?

[alanmolstad]

Why did you cut out my first sentence? What faith do you belong to?

Many times we post comments that stray from one topic to another.
You asked what I felt was a personal question about matters that would only tend to split this topic off even more than it seems to be headed.

I was not going to address the whole wider comment you gave, rather I wanted to address only a small section of your post...

I quoted it to provide introduction to the part of your sentence I was about to address.

Is there some other part of your post you would like to see me address next?....my personal church?...what time i attend?...the car i drive?....the length of my hair? (or lack thereof?)....
and so I dont want to become the "topic" and therefore i edit my own answers to whatever questions im asked to allow me not to become the "Topic"...

[ErikErik]

Many times we post comments that stray from one topic to another.
You asked what I felt was a personal question about matters that would only tend to split this topic off even more than it seems to be headed.

I was not going to address the whole wider comment you gave, rather I wanted to address only a small section of your post...

I quoted it to provide introduction to the part of your sentence I was about to address.

Is there some other part of your post you would like to see me address next?....my personal church?...what time i attend?...the car i drive?....the length of my hair? (or lack thereof?)....
and so I dont want to become the "topic" and therefore i edit my own answers to whatever questions im asked to allow me not to become the "Topic"...

Asking what church one goes to is too personal a question? I notice you avoid answering this on the mormonism thread too.Seems to be a habit of yours...:rolleyes:

[alanmolstad]

Asking what church one goes to is too personal a question? I notice you avoid answering this on the mormonism thread too.Seems to be a habit of yours...:rolleyes:

I must have not wanted to become the "Topic " there too?

I think a person has a right to talk about their personal faith and theology when they want, and have a right to not do so if they dont feel its appropriate for a given topic.

I have talked on other topics on this Forum about my church and my upbringing, I see no need to do so again if Im not in the mood......and Im not in the mood right now.

[ErikErik]

I must have not wanted to become the "Topic " there too?

I think a person has a right to talk about their personal faith and theology when they want, and have a right to not do so if they dont feel its appropriate for a given topic.

I have talked on other topics on this Forum about my church and my upbringing, I see no need to do so again if Im not in the mood......and Im not in the mood right now.

Are you Lutheran..for now?

[alanmolstad]

Are you.........?

again...not in the mood....

[ErikErik]

again...not in the mood....

The problem is this, Alan. If someone asks a Christian the reason for his faith and they refuse to admit what faith it is, it looks like one is ashamed of the gospel.

[alanmolstad]

The problem is this, Alan. ......

again, not in the mood...

move on to something actually close to this topic....

[ErikErik]

again, not in the mood...

move on to something actually close to this topic....

So you won't tell us if you're a born again Christian or not..oh, ok

[alanmolstad]

So you won't tell us.......

Not in the mood right to get into that topic.....perhaps later
on a different topic ?

it might be nice to spend hours talking about such things, but not right now and not here.

[alanmolstad]

Let me restate. Is it possible to exercise saving faith unto salvation after hearing and embracing false doctrine?:)

Yes....

The way it happens is that God calls out to you where you are.
You are sent a 'light" from heaven, and you will be judged according to how you respond to that light.

I will be judged to a higher degree due to my growing up so close to god's word and his church.
But for they who grew up in a CULT, or grew up far from god's Word or the church, they will be judged according to the light they were sent.

(He who was given more, more is ask of)


So the answer is "yes" to the above question.
You can find the Lord, you can find salvation while yet believing in many things that are false.

[alanmolstad]

Is it possible to receive faith from God in error from Satan and, if not, what're the implications of such?:)

First....Satan is not really known for being an evangelist, so right off the bat i would say that if Satan actually got a person to believe in God his whole kingdom would fall....Satan does not cast out Satan.

No good thing comes ever from Satan.



But, we also have to always keep in mind that God does his work regardless of the actions of Satan to undercut it.
And for us who fear God and worship him in Truth, God works things, (even very bad things) for His good for us.

[alanmolstad]

First....Satan is not really known for being an evangelist, so right off the bat i would say that if Satan actually got a person to believe in God his whole kingdom would fall....Satan does not cast out Satan.

No good thing comes ever from Satan.



But, we also have to always keep in mind that God does his work regardless of the actions of Satan to undercut it.
And for us who fear God and worship him in Truth, God works things, (even very bad things) for His good for us.

This still is the best answer to the original question...