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Richard
03-21-2009, 10:19 PM
It is very common for us to hear of the Evangelical mantra, that Jesus "emptied Himself of His divinity" or His deity.


What do LDS believe?


"When the Great God of the Universe condescended to be born of mortal woman, He submitted Himself to the infirmities of mortality, to “suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death” (Mosiah 3:7). These infirmities He inherited from His mortal mother. But because His father was God, Jesus Christ had powers which no human had before or since. He was God in the flesh—even the Son of God. These powers enabled Him to accomplish miracles, signs, wonders, the great Atonement, and the Resurrection—all of which are additional marks of His divinity". President Ezra Taft Benson (1899–1994)

We must keep in mind who Jesus was before He was born. He was the Creator of all things, the great Jehovah, the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He was and is the Holy One of Israel. Thus the testimonies of appointed witnesses leave no question as to the paternity of Jesus Christ. God was the Father of His fleshly tabernacle, and Mary, a mortal woman, was His mother. He is therefore the only person born who rightfully deserves the ***le “the Only Begotten Son of God.”


LDS use of the King James language and note it reads as follows:

Philippians 2:5-8 (King James Version)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


Some Evangelicals quote the following:

Philippians 2:5-8 (New American Standard Bible)
5 Have this at***ude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself[/U], taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Emptied or condescended? Was Jesus any less than a God still???? What say the Evangelicals?

What say the LDS:

Were it not for the power that Jesus inherited from His Father, His great Atonement would not have been possible. You are all familiar with the facts. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He took three of the Twelve and went into the place called Gethsemane. It was there He suffered the pains of all men, which suffering, He said, “caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink” (D&C 19:18).

BrianH
03-22-2009, 05:10 AM
It is very common for us to hear of the Evangelical mantra, that Jesus "emptied Himself of His divinity" or His deity.

Nonsense.

That is NOT orthodox doctrine from any mainstream denomination.

You are misinformed.

-BH

.

maklelan
03-22-2009, 07:10 AM
[COLOR="Green"][B]It is very common for us to hear of the Evangelical mantra, that Jesus "emptied Himself of His divinity" or His deity.

This is the kenotic doctrine, and it's rejected by many protestant and and all Catholic denominations.

Richard
03-22-2009, 08:19 AM
This is the kenotic doctrine, and it's rejected by many protestant and and all Catholic denominations.

Thanks Marklelan, I heard it while driving yesterday on a Christian radio station. It interested me to the point that I checked the American Standard Bible and the word "emptied" sure enough was there. I have googled the word Kenotic, found that it was preached at one time and since pretty much been disclaimed by all the major Faith Movements.

Richard
03-22-2009, 08:22 AM
Nonsense.

That is NOT orthodox doctrine from any mainstream denomination.

You are misinformed.

-BH

.

I apologize Brian, it was stupid of me to claim that. I jumped the gun and admit I'm wrong. It was something I heard on a Christian Radio station, and I must have missed the beginning and the ending of the program. Kind of like not reading a book completely. ;)

Russ
03-22-2009, 11:11 AM
Jesus willingly emptied himself of some of his power and/or ability as God, but he never stopped being, ontologically, God. He could have called legions of angels to take him off the cross so that he would not have to suffer. He could have commanded the nails to fall out so that he could simply step down from the pain. If no one worshipped him, even the stones would have raised up to do it.

Richard, it's interesting to note that you continue to not tell the whole LDS story.

When you way that LDS believe Jesus was the "great creator" of all things, you fail to mention that God ("Elohim") directed Jehovah ("Jesus") and Michael (archangel) to "go down" and organize previously unorganized matter.

These are important aspects of the LDS religion which people have a right to know before waiting one year to enter the LDS temple.

But it's to be expected that cults will not reveal their core doctrines until one has been "prepared" (read "indoctrinated") to accept strange teachings.

BrianH
03-22-2009, 05:16 PM
It is possible to hear a lie in 30 seconds of a radio broadcast AND even on a single page or even in a single sentence in a book.

-BH

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PostTribber
04-25-2009, 09:49 AM
Jesus is fully God and fully Man. God cannot empty Himself. God cannot die. but Jesus was also fully Man, subject to all the temptations, yet without sin. and as a Man, Jesus died. and as God, by the power of God, raised Himself from the dead, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19)

and just as Paul declares in Philippians 3:10, "That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death", we have convidence that though this 'temple' be destroyed, yet Christ will raise us up in the last day, to immortality and incorruptible, in His own image and after His own likeness, as originally 'intended'.

alanmolstad
01-29-2015, 10:41 AM
It is very common for us to hear of the Evangelical mantra, that Jesus "emptied Himself of His divinity" or His deity.




Well...Im not sure who was saying that or in what context...

But what I say is this-

Jesus did NOT empty himself of being God.
Jesus always was and always will be God Almighty.

So the "divinity" of God was unchanged.
This also means that the "deity" of Jesus was also unchanged.

But what did clearly change was that Jesus gave up his right to act as God in order to be fully human.

So Jesus was always divinity and deity, but with this nature he also received the nature of a man.

And to be fully human as I am, Jesus would need to rely completely on the father for all the works that he did.....this is just the same as for any other true human.
We all have to rely on the father for all the good works that we do too!