Are we saved by Grace, Faith or Works

[tealblue]

I see alot of debate even amongs evangelicals about how we are saved. Is it by grace OR works. Its obvious that scripture talks about salvation in terms of grace and faith. But what about works? Does scripture aver talk about salvation in terms of works?

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

"‘Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you?’" (Luke 6:46).

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (Jas. 2:17).

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24).

It seems to be ok to say we are saved by faith and grace why is it not ok to say we are save by Faith, Grace and Works.

[Free]

I see alot of debate even amongs evangelicals about how we are saved. Is it by grace OR works. Its obvious that scripture talks about salvation in terms of grace and faith. But what about works? Does scripture aver talk about salvation in terms of works?

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

"‘Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you?’" (Luke 6:46).

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (Jas. 2:17).

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24).

It seems to be ok to say we are saved by faith and grace why is it not ok to say we are save by Faith, Grace and Works.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works based soteriologies are incompatible with Christian theism. The Bible is clear, salvation is by faith alone. Works are a result, not a means, of salvation.

[Free]

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).


This verse actually is against works based soteriology.

Mat 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Obviously the context disproves works for salvation. Christ had just got done speaking of false prophets whose were wolves in sheeps clothing (vs. 15).


"‘Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you?’" (Luke 6:46).

Again, this has nothing to do with salvation. In fact, the parallel to Matthew 7:16-20, is found a few verses earlier than this one in verses 43-45. Sorry, it doesn't fit.


"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

Can you do all the works of the Law perfectly? No, of course not. An unregenerate person cannot perform good works. A regenerate person is already saved. God will render according to everyone's works. Everyone has sinned. But, we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. The context, btw, is referring to the conscience of man that shows that everyone is guilty before god, not innocent by works. Read chapter one and two and three as a unit. The chapters betray the flow of Paul's writing.

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

See above.

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

Hebrews 10:37-39 (the end of the chapter after the writer has showed what would happen, not what has happened),

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. "

Also,

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Joh 6:38-40 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

But what does James ultimately point out?

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James is writing to believers. He is ***uming they already have "faith". He is making the point that True Faith, Saving Faith, will result in good works. If it isn't, then your faith is dead, it is not of value. Faith produces works, false faith produces bad works. Christ taught that multiple times.

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (Jas. 2:17).

See above. Note: James was also writing to apathetic Christians who thought they didn't have to do anything. They were using faith as "fire insurance" and that's about it. He was fighting complacency.

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

You prove my point. He ***umes faith. He is proving his faith with his works, thus illustrating the whole context. True faith will be demonstrated with works. Faith that doesn't produce works is worthless.


"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24).

The context has already been shown to you.

Also:

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The last verses show that God is the one who works in us to perform good deeds. Thus confirming the proper context in James


It seems to be ok to say we are saved by faith and grace why is it not ok to say we are save by Faith, Grace and Works.

The nature of our separation from God is infinite. Our works our finite, thus cannot save us. An infinite cannot be separated or divided, thus it cannot be our works and Christ's blood. If it were either of these, God would be rendered finite, as the only conclusion would be that our separation from Him is finite. (We sin against each of His attributes in their entirety, and each are infinite attributes. Thus the infinite separation. Multiples of infinites actually, but I digress).

Works based soteriologies are thus incompatible with scripture and the definition of an infinite God.

[MacG]

Free,

"You prove my point. He ***umes faith. He is proving his faith with his works, thus illustrating the whole context. True faith will be demonstrated with works. Faith that doesn't produce works is worthless."

Since then those that work out of fear to prove faith, and those who do works because of faith may 'look' the same, do you suppose this is what Paul meant by "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" because we may not be able to perceive our motives for the works?

MacG

[tealblue]

When you say you are saved by grace through faith I'm wondering how you come about the definition of grace it self. In the old testement grace was always described as something that is used to do good instead of evil.


acts 14:26 From there they sailed to Antioch, where they had been commended to the grace of God for the work they had now accomplished.

So when you say you are saved by grace your really saying that you are saved by responding to the grace God gives you. I'm not talking about earning your salvation but a response to a gift that can be acepted or rejected. For example jesus was very specific about obeying his father commandments. In fact he states in the sermon on the mount that unless you do the will of the father you won't be in heaven. So if God commands to lets say remember the sabath day and keep it holy but you would rather play golf instead even though a person is a so called born again christian how does one reconcile the huge amounts of scripture that depicts the relationship between sin and hell. How does a few out of context verses trump all of that. Anytime scripture talks of judgment works are always metioned.

[Bob Carabbio]

Grace is reason that we CAN be saved, but not related to whether we will be or not. It's the answer to the question why did Jesus bother??? "God's Grace" is the answer. It was Grace the caused God to send JEsus to open the way for a bunch of totally worthless depraved heathens to become HIS brethren. AND it's only grace that allows us to live long enough under the sentence of death to place our faith in Jesus and become saved.

And the first 8 chapters of Romans eliminate ANY contribution of "Works" to the business of salvation, while James presents works as a "litmus test" for salvation. i.e - IF one has "saving faith" (which IS what our salvation is based on), then there will be "good works" which are in no way salvific, but an indicator that we ARE saved.

[tealblue]

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

The first 8 chapters of romans is not absent of metion of works. Why is eph 2:8,9 seem to be the ace of spades that trumps every single verse that relates the clear realtionship between sin and justification and judgment.

Jesus even says its better to remove you eye that is causing you to sin than you whole body go to hell. Sounds like jesus is relating your sin to going to hell to me.

[Free]

Free,

"You prove my point. He ***umes faith. He is proving his faith with his works, thus illustrating the whole context. True faith will be demonstrated with works. Faith that doesn't produce works is worthless."

Since then those that work out of fear to prove faith, and those who do works because of faith may 'look' the same, do you suppose this is what Paul meant by "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" because we may not be able to perceive our motives for the works?

MacG


Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


"Work out" in the Greek connotes an actualization of something someone already posseses. Paul is also writing to Christians. This verse by no means proves works based salvation.

I didn't quite understand your question, but I hope this helps.

[Free]

you say you are saved by grace through faith I'm wondering how you come about the definition of grace it self. In the old testement grace was always described as something that is used to do good instead of evil.


HOLD IT!!!! I did not say it. The Bible says it.


acts 14:26 From there they sailed to Antioch, where they had been commended to the grace of God for the work they had now accomplished.

What point are you making with this verse?


So when you say you are saved by grace your really saying that you are saved by responding to the grace God gives you. I'm not talking about earning your salvation but a response to a gift that can be acepted or rejected.

This would make salvation a merit system, so I don't think our decision has anything to do with it. (I'm a Calvinist)



For example jesus was very specific about obeying his father commandments. In fact he states in the sermon on the mount that unless you do the will of the father you won't be in heaven.

Could you cite the reference? I believe the Will of the Father is that all come to Christ.


So if God commands to lets say remember the sabath day and keep it holy but you would rather play golf instead even though a person is a so called born again christian how does one reconcile the huge amounts of scripture that depicts the relationship between sin and hell.

Christ fulfilled the Law. We no longer have to obey it to attain salvation. Why do we sin? Our natures cause us to sin. Our actions do not separate us from God, we are separated from Him at the time of conception (infinitely).


How does a few out of context verses trump all of that. Anytime scripture talks of judgment works are always metioned.

My verses contextualized yours. You verses were shown to be out of context.

[Free]

Grace is reason that we CAN be saved, but not related to whether we will be or not. It's the answer to the question why did Jesus bother??? "God's Grace" is the answer. It was Grace the caused God to send JEsus to open the way for a bunch of totally worthless depraved heathens to become HIS brethren. AND it's only grace that allows us to live long enough under the sentence of death to place our faith in Jesus and become saved.

And the first 8 chapters of Romans eliminate ANY contribution of "Works" to the business of salvation, while James presents works as a "litmus test" for salvation. i.e - IF one has "saving faith" (which IS what our salvation is based on), then there will be "good works" which are in no way salvific, but an indicator that we ARE saved.

I respectfully disagree with the verse paragraph as a Calvinist. However, I will not debate that here. We are saved apart from Works, period, which you agree with.

[Free]

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

First of all, the context of Chapter 2 is Paul explaing why both Jew and Gentile can be punished and Judged by God (see verses 2, 3, 11, 12).

Second, beings operate according to their natures. If you have a flesh nature you can do no good thing. If you have a regenerate nature, you can. You can only do good works after you've been regenerated. Thus, your whole point is rendered moot.


"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

Again, being operate according to their nature. Unregenerate people will not do good works, regenerate people will. Regenerate people are already saved, thus rendering the discussion moot.


The first 8 chapters of romans is not absent of metion of works. Why is eph 2:8,9 seem to be the ace of spades that trumps every single verse that relates the clear realtionship between sin and justification and judgment.

Because it is clearer and more forthright then the verses you are offering (out of context I might add).


Jesus even says its better to remove you eye that is causing you to sin than you whole body go to hell. Sounds like jesus is relating your sin to going to hell to me.[

Have you removed your eye? No. Jesus actually says to remove that which causes us to sin. What causes you to sin? Your nature.

[Free]

Works based soteriologies, other then being unbiblical, have philisophical problems as well.

Our separation from God is infinite. Why? Because our sinful nature's are sinful against the nature of God, which is infinite. Our sin is against all of God's nature. Thus our infinite separation.

An infinite has no beginning and no end, by definition. An infinite cannot be crossed and cannot be divided.

In Christianity, the only thing that covers our sin is Christ's blood, which is infinite in it's application.

In works based soteriologies, salvation is attained either by: Man's works entirely or man's work and another's work.

We know man's works are finite, so man cannot atone for his own sin. We know that an infinite can't be divided, so it can't be man and another's works.

So, if a works based soteriology is true, there are a few conclusions we can make:

Our separation from God is actually finite, as man's works are finite and an infinite cannot be divided. If this is true then:

A) God is finite, as our sin against is against his attributes and his attributes must thus be finite. Meaning- God's nature is finite.

B) Our sin is not actually against God's nature, but some finite standard.

The latter leaves us with some questions:

1) Who is authoring the finite Standard?
2) Does God have another, infinite Standard?
a) Can we tresp*** this Standard
b) Do we need atonement for this Standard
3) Was Christ's infinite sacrifice necessary for a finite separation?

There are more, but these will suffice. As you can see, works based Soteriologies present alot of problems for themselves, the nature of God, the nature of man, etc.

[tealblue]

I'm not talking about works that are apart from the grace of God but works that are a direct result of the grace of God. Either way I think we can both agree somewhat that if works are not present than salvation is not present. Let me give you an anaolgy. Lets pretend that sin is cancer and jesus is the cure for the cancer. If you are cured of cancer than you are saved. In the evangelical view you are cured of cancer just by coverying up the cancer like a bandaid and saying poof its gone and you are saved. In the historic Catholic view jesus takes away your cancer(sin) literaly not figuratively. So you are saved by jesus actually removing your sin resulting in your salvation. The evangelical view makes no sense.

[Bob Carabbio]

"Either way I think we can both agree somewhat that if works are not present than salvation is not present."

Yup - that's the message in James -

"Let me give you an anaolgy. Lets pretend that sin is cancer and jesus is the cure for the cancer. If you are cured of cancer than you are saved."

Also reasonably accurate.

"In the evangelical view you are cured of cancer just by coverying up the cancer like a bandaid and saying poof its gone and you are saved."

Don't know where you got THAT silly impression, y'all!!! The "evangelical view" is that when you place your FAITH in the Blood of Christ, then your sins are GONE!!!! far as the East is from the West - and forgotten. Moreover one is "Justified" - (Just as if I'd - never sinned) and completely righteous before Father. AND we can BOLDLY come before the very throne of God and make our pe***ions known.

"In the historic Catholic view jesus takes away your cancer(sin) literaly not figuratively. So you are saved by jesus actually removing your sin resulting in your salvation."

So Catholics and Evangelicals apparently agree - agreement is good.

"The evangelical view makes no sense."

YOUR version of the "Evangelical view" sounds more like Old Testament Judaism, and bears NO resemblance to the actual "Evangelical view, y'all.

[tealblue]

I was more meaning literaly gone as in sanctification. In the evangelical view you become saved then you are sancitfied. I believe its the other way around you become sanctified by grace resulting in salvation. I believe salvation comes in the end. As the apostle Paul puts it" those who endure til the end will be saved.

[Trinity]

Tealblue: Are we saved by Grace, Faith or Works?

I would say that we are saved by faith, within a mandate to do many charitable works, faithfully, with the help of God grace. In my opinion this is the three preconditions if we want to meet God. To put more emphasis on one condition than the two others, this can only shadow the vision that we should have about the christian life, and to contribute to make things more difficult than they are.

Anyway, by doing this, a person will have no other choice than to twist the Scriptures. Faith alone, does not work. This is why Luther had had a great hatred against the Epistle of James. It was the little pebble in the mechanism of his systematic theology.

Trinity

[Bob Carabbio]

I have NO IDEA what you're saying here "as a Calvinist". But since I'm NEITHER Calvinist NOR Arminian (nor any other "systematic" paradigm), it doesn't surprise me that I'd say something that a "Calvinist" (whatever that means) would disagree with. No biggie - that's the "apologetics game", y'all!!

[Trinity]

I also like the definition of Cardinal John Henry Newman about faith.

"Faith is the result of the act of the will, following upon a conviction that to believe is a duty."

Less intellectualism and a lot more of actions. This is in my sense much more dynamistic, energetic, and alive.

http://i.pbase.com/g1/82/265582/3/97671373.qDgTJbG8.jpg

An intellectual faith is like a tree with a dead trunk. It will always be more easy to say that we have faith than to demonstrate it. Too many christians are hiding behind an insubstantial faith. The faith should sparkle the shining light of Christ in every aspect of life. Not only into our thoughts, but in our goals, decisions, changes, friendship, family, workplace, relationships, motivations, dreams and ambitions. In the realization of our soul as a social creature. Faith is not only internal but intensively extern. By experience, I realized that the selfish have only an internal faith.

Trinity

[Bob Carabbio]

Actually the "Selfish" really don't have ANY faith at all, and "Faith" is not an "Act of the will" since the "will" cannot produce Faith - only God can through the inspiration/conviction of the Holy SPirit.

"PRESUMPTION" is an "act of the will".

Faith IS However: "following upon a conviction that to believe is a duty". Which is an awkward way of saying that GOD HAS IMPRESSED one that he should do something specific - and the TOTAL CONVICTION that: Something IS to be done, and GOD has convicted one that he is to do it is the definition of "Faith".

The "act of the will" is nothing more that the decision to be obedient (because of the Faith) to the leading of the Lord.

[Trinity]

The "act of the will" is nothing more that the decision to be obedient (because of the Faith) to the leading of the Lord.

Actually the "Selfish" really don't have ANY faith at all,...

I am pretty sure that God had not twisted one of your arms to become a believer. The willpower is something that is not absent in a conversion. En p***ant, there is believers who are selfish, and if you never meet some, you are very lucky.

2Cor 12:20 For I am afraid that when I come to visit you I won't like what I find, and then you won't like my response. I am afraid that I will find quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfishness, backstabbing, gossip, conceit, and disorderly behavior.

Jas 3:14-16 But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambition in your hearts, don't brag about being wise. That is the worst kind of lie. For jealousy and selfishness are not God's kind of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual, and motivated by the Devil. For wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and every kind of evil.

Amazingly, Paul and James, were a little bit discouraged about those christians above.

Trinity

[Bob Carabbio]

"I am pretty sure that God had not twisted one of your arms to become a believer."

Actually the presence of Holy Spirit in Conviction of sin, and the revelation of the total hopelessness of the human condition without Jesus is "arm twisting" of a VERY high order.

The simple fact is that WITHOUT the convicting power and faith-giving presence of the Holy Spirit NOBODY'S becoming saved. Unless you're "Drawn" by the Spirit, you're NOT coming in.

[jade84116]

Go to http://www.jsm.org/explore.cfm/dailytvlist for Jimmy Swaggart's detailed approach to Romans 6-8.:)

[Saxon]

I see alot of debate even amongs evangelicals about how we are saved. Is it by grace OR works. Its obvious that scripture talks about salvation in terms of grace and faith. But what about works? Does scripture aver talk about salvation in terms of works?

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

"‘Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you?’" (Luke 6:46).

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (Jas. 2:17).

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24).

It seems to be ok to say we are saved by faith and grace why is it not ok to say we are save by Faith, Grace and Works.




Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:8 to 10 is the total explanation of the salvation, faith and works relationship.

Grace is an at***ude that God has towards mankind. Salvation is totally and without exception, a work of grace, by God alone. God is never obligated to save anyone. If God became obligated then being saved by grace would be a false statement. Mankind cannot do anything that would cause God to be obligated to save him or her. The only reason God saves us is because he wants to save us.

Grace (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grace)

a: unmerited divine ***istance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b: a virtue coming from God
c: a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace

A practical example of grace is when banks would give 3 days grace to the client who had a loan or a mortgage. When the payment date came and the payment was not made the client had 3 days to make the payment without any extra fees or interest added to the principal. Those 3 days were a period of grace that the bank was not obligated to give a person but it was a free period where the client could make payment before the bank charged extra money. This is just an example of grace as we understand it. God’s grace operates the same way but there is no restriction on the time in this present era.

Faith (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith)

a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God
(2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof
(2): complete trust

It is through faith that God saves us by his grace. Acts 16:30 directly asks the question,” What must I do to be saved?” and Acts 16:31directly answers, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”. This is all that a human being can do in order to be saved. Having faith and believing still does not obligate God to save anyone. The reason God saves us is that he wants to do it and he chose to save those that believe in Jesus. (See John 3:16)

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:10 states that we were “created in Christ Jesus unto good works”. Being saved we are placed into Christ and being “in Christ” we will do the works that God has desired us to do. Works are never done to gain salvation but works are a natural result of salvation by the grace of God.

[alanmolstad]

not enough topics running on this subject already?

[Saxon]

not enough topics running on this subject already?




It hasn't been closed or deleted so why not.

Do you have a comment on what I posted?

[alanmolstad]

the last comment made on this topic was back in 2009 right?

Now I have been known to post on old topics myself,but they were mostly on subjects that no one else was currently talking about...

My guess is that most of the people that were talking on this ***le back in 09 are all dead by now, or in jail....

[Saxon]

I guess that you don't have a comment on what I posted.

[alanmolstad]

with a lot of the same topics spilling over into each other..?

[Dmarie]

Jesus said,

"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Our "works" are simply an outpouring of obedience, and thanksgiving to God for our salvation. Our works are the evidence of what has already occured within us (our salvation), when we accept by faith the finished work of Jesus Christ which He alone accomplished for us on the cross.

Now, what more can we add to any of this, other than to show our eternal gra***ude for such a wonderful gift?

Blessings...Dmarie

[Saxon]

You have caped it off very well.

[alanmolstad]

it is not by our efforts that we are saved....

[Saxon]

Did I even suggest that by our efforts we are saved? If so, where?

[alanmolstad]

It seems to be ok to say we are saved by faith and grace why is it not ok to say we are save by Faith, Grace and Works.

Nope....this is what it is "ok" to say -......that we are saved by Grace though faith,and not at all by works.






You can also say the following -

You can say that :We are not saved by Grace though faith and works

We are not saved by faith
We are not saved by works
We are not saved by any combination of faith and works.


We are only saved by grace, and that grace works our salvation in our lives though our faith....and that works do not


We know that faith is never alone for faith always has some works with it, yet we also know that works do not save us.




Men are justified before each other by our works....this is because we only can see each other's works and we cant see each other's inner faith.

But men are also justified before God by faith....for God can see into our heart.




So the justification by works is done before men
and the Justification by faith if before God, and thus we are saved only......ONLY by grace though FAITH!

[alanmolstad]

any questions about the above post ?