View Full Version : Status of unbaptized children

James Banta
01-11-2014, 11:58 AM
On the mormonism channel it was brought up lately that Calvinist believe that unbaptized babies that die go directly to hell.. I have read the five points of Calvinism I don't see such a doctrine of condemnation of infants.. Here are those five points, can anyone show me where such a terrible doctrine that condemns children is included in them?

Total depravity (Original Sin)
Unconditional election (God's Election)
Limited atonement (Particular Redemption)
Irresistible grace (Effectual Calling)
Perseverance of the Saints

Thanks for the help IHS jim

01-20-2014, 05:28 AM
Hello James. I've not posted for awhile , and saw this Thread late Sunday evening and thought I'd reply to your question. I've spent about 18 years in the "Calvinistic/Reformed" Camp , so I thought I would try and help you out. Typed a rather looong and in-depth answer with some personal info and thoughts. Hit the ****on/tab to post the reply and the nasty little hampster that should have been spinning the website wheel must have gone night-night. aarrgghh! Nearly a half hour of my Brilliant ;) insights and words ... just disappeared somewhere into computer-land / cyber-space. I hate that... it used to happen here on WMM forums back when , and I figured maybe after me not posting for months that the system had got better, but no dice. :(.

Short answer for yaa ( and maybe if it posts and stays posted ) I'll make a longer one Monday ...

... Normally it is the Lutherans who are the most adamant on the issues of unbaptized children. They hold that an unbaptized child MUST be baptized or it will go to Hell if it dies. iirc that is pretty much what the R.C.'s hold to also. The R.C.'s , Lutherans & Anglicans/Episcopalians hold to Infant Baptism & Baptismal Regeneration. Not so much in the Reformed/Calvinist folks. They do put 3 drops of water on the forehead of a child of Christian ( aka; Church members ) parents , but as far as I have read and heard ... the Reformed are less adamant than the Lutherans on the topic.

Now ... there are some ( several ) Calvinists I've met/listened to and talked with over the years that have some rather bizarro beliefs , so it would not surprise me if you found one that held to the extreme (IMO ) position of the Lutherans.

It all stems from their holding to the teaching(s) of Augustin(e) of Hippo in North Africa. He had been a part of a group called the "Manicheans". They were influenced by the Gnostics. { Gnostic = "we have the knowledge". } Gnostics taught that all matter is baaaaad ( evil ) and only spirit ( Diety ) is gooood . Since babies come from their parents having sexual intercourse --- theennnn ,,, that means - babies are evil. { btw - I'm not making this stuff up. }

The Eastern( Greek ) Orthodox Bishops/Pastors/Theologs { see "The Ante-Nicene Fathers various quotes about Free Will and Sin } did not hold to that gooney-bird idea , but the "Western" churches ( West side of the Med. Sea area ) , eventually adopted Augustin's viewpoint, and since he was very buddy-buddy with the Romish bunch ... they went along ( after about a hundred years after he died ) with Augustin's semi-Manichean blither-blather. Hope this helps.

01-27-2014, 11:00 AM
Im more or less Lutheran..LOL...and I do not hold to any teachings about kids going to hell just because they didnt get baptized...

02-01-2014, 07:08 PM
so what do i hold to?

I actually believe that heaven is mostly filled with little kids.....

That, and that alone tells you what i believe is true on this topic.