Faith alone

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10-13-2014, 04:41 AM
dberrie2000

Faith alone

Why do those who claim Christianity claim a faith alone theology--when the Bible clearly opposes it?

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
10-13-2014, 06:01 AM
alanmolstad

"Salvation is not by fath...or by works or by any combination of them."

Guess who said this?
10-13-2014, 08:00 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

"Salvation is not by fath...or by works or by any combination of them."

Guess who said this?

That is a claim of the faith alone. IOW--one is saved by God's grace through a faith without works. Not by works or faith--but by grace through a faith without works.

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

IOW--the faith alone preach a salvation through a dead faith.
10-17-2014, 10:45 PM
Saxon

Quote:

Why do those who claim Christianity claim a faith alone theology--when the Bible clearly opposes it?

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The Bible does not clearly oppose it, you clearly make the Bible say what you want it to say. Ephesians 2:8 and 9 spells out how a person is saved. A person is saved by grace. This has no connection to faith. The faith that God requires is faith in Christ. Faith in Christ does not obligate God to save anyone. God is never obligated to save or grace would become of no effect. Grace is of God and only God. God saves by grace. There is no other scripture that can say anything different. Verse 9 states that it is NOT of works. Not of works is not changeable or there would be a contradiction in the Bible and there is not any contradiction in the Bible.

Ephesians 2:10 says that we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. The good works are after salvation and a result of salvation. There is no works that will save you but there are works to be done after you are saved.

Faith will produce an action, a work. The action is a natural outworking of faith If there is no action because of faith then there was no faith or dead faith. Faith is the essential element and the works will follow. James 2:18 says shew me thy faith without thy works. This is impossible as we cannot perceive faith by natural means. James 2:18 also says I will shew thee my faith by my works. We can see faith because of the works that come after. Faith without works is dead and salvation with works is nonexistent.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
10-20-2014, 04:57 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

dberrie----Why do those who claim Christianity claim a faith alone theology--when the Bible clearly opposes it?

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

The Bible does not clearly oppose it, you clearly make the Bible say what you want it to say.

The Biblical text testifies against faith alone theology--regardless of what I want it to say:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Quote:

Ephesians 2:8 and 9 spells out how a person is saved. A person is saved by grace.

Agreed--and that grace goes to them that obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10-20-2014, 01:48 PM
Saxon

In order to get salvation there is no works involved. After you receive salvation then you are expected to be the Christian that God created you to be.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
10-20-2014, 02:14 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

In order to get salvation there is no works involved.

That is the claim of the faith alone--a salvation through a faith without works:

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I have a question about that. Why is it that Christ testified that all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?

John 5:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
10-20-2014, 02:41 PM
Saxon

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. What does not of works really mean??
10-20-2014, 04:04 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. What does not of works really mean??

I believe it means just what it says--not of works. Salvation is by God's grace--and the scriptures show that grace goes to them that do His works:

John 5:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
10-22-2014, 07:05 AM
Saxon

Quote:

I believe it means just what it says--not of works. Salvation is by God's grace--and the scriptures show that grace goes to them that do His works:

The way that you have stated this is that grace has to be earned. Romans 4:2 to 6 says that was NOT justified by works. Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. To him that works the reward is not reckoned of grace it is debt. (God is never in a position that he is obligated to save anyone, he is no man’s debtor) The one that believes without works is counted as righteous. David has also described the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works. If grace has to be earned then it is no longer grace but works. (See Romans 11:6)

Grace is a term that describes how God gives. It is totally free, a gift and gifts are not earned. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Quote:

John 5:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

You are apparently are not aware that getting saved is one thing and living the Christian life is a totally different event. Those that have done good and are resurrected to life are those that got saved in their life time and lived the Christian life that God created them in Christ Jesus to live. (See Ephesians 2:10) Those that have done evil are those that did not get saved or fell from grace after they were saved. John 5:28-29 does not support salvation by works.

Quote:

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

This is also nothing that supports salvation by works. You seem to have a lot of bad information that is not supported by the Bible. Don’t ignore the obvious because someone that doesn't know the Bible makes a false and unsupportable statement.
10-22-2014, 08:44 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I believe it means just what it says--not of works. Salvation is by God's grace--and the scriptures show that grace goes to them that do His works:

John 5:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

The way that you have stated this is that grace has to be earned.

Could you tell us if these earned God's salvational grace of the remission of sins?

Acts 2:38-----King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
10-22-2014, 01:43 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I believe it means just what it says--not of works. Salvation is by God's grace--and the scriptures show that grace goes to them that do His works:

John 5:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

Grace is a term that describes how God gives. It is totally free, a gift and gifts are not earned. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Christ testified that all will be judged according to what they do with the gifts:

Matthew 25:14-30----King James Version (KJV)

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
10-23-2014, 08:37 AM
Saxon

This has nothing to do with GETTING saved, this is about the saved serving their master. Works do not and will not get you saved. Works are required after you are saved as Matthew 25:14-30 indicates. (See Ephesians 2:8 to 10)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
10-23-2014, 10:25 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

This has nothing to do with GETTING saved, this is about the saved serving their master.

Oh? And what is it about the testimony you don't believe?

Matthew 25:14-30----King James Version (KJV)

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Could you explain for us how they were all His servants to begin with--and only those who magnified their talents -- enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

And those who did nothing with their gifts were---"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."?
10-23-2014, 12:04 PM
Saxon

Quote:

Oh? And what is it about the testimony you don't believe?

I believe Matthew 25:14-30. I do not agree with you that it is about getting saved, it is about the saved serving their master.

Quote:

Matthew 25:14-30----King James Version (KJV)

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Could you explain for us how they were all His servants to begin with--and only those who magnified their talents -- enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

His own servants seems to explain it quite well.

Quote:

And those who did nothing with their gifts were---"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."?

Those that did nothing got fired. This is also a good illustration that once a person is saves they are still responsible to obey the Lord. After you are saved you are expected to do what a Christian was created to do. (See Ephesians 2:10)

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
10-23-2014, 12:11 PM
Saxon

No, they were saved first. For the remission of sins is "because" of the remission of sins. Salvation is a gift not of works. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10-23-2014, 04:31 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

Those that did nothing got fired.

Then your claim that they were saved first cannot be true.

Quote:

This is also a good illustration that once a person is saves they are still responsible to obey the Lord.

One cannot maintain a theology that has one saved independent of works--and then redact and fire the ones who don't have the works. That dog just ain't gonna hunt.
10-24-2014, 12:48 PM
Saxon

DELETED by Saxon

DELETED By Saxon. Posted in wrong spot.
10-24-2014, 12:55 PM
Saxon

Quote:

Then your claim that they were saved first cannot be true.

Tell me why you think that cannot be true. You make a statement and expect me to believe you with no support from the Bible?

Quote:

One cannot maintain a theology that has one saved independent of works--and then redact and fire the ones who don't have the works. That dog just ain't gonna hunt.

One more time. Works has nothing to do with GETTING saved, Works do not and will not get you saved. Works are required after you are saved. (See Ephesians 2:8 to 10)

Romans 4:2 to 6 says that Abraham was NOT justified by works. Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. To him that works the reward is not reckoned of grace it is debt. (God is never in a position that he is obligated to save anyone, he is no man’s debtor) The one that believes without works is counted as righteous. David has also described the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works. If grace has to be earned then it is no longer grace but works. (See Romans 11:6)

Grace is a term that describes how God gives. It is totally free, a gift and gifts are not earned. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Try to at least give a reason for your objections.
10-24-2014, 07:12 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon

Tell me why you think that cannot be true. You make a statement and expect me to believe you with no support from the Bible?

Your statement did not come from the Bible:

Quote:

dberrie----Oh? And what is it about the testimony you don't believe?

Matthew 25:14-30----King James Version (KJV)

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Could you explain for us how they were all His servants to begin with--and only those who magnified their talents -- enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

And those who did nothing with their gifts were---"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon View PostThose that did nothing got fired.

Quote:

One more time. Works has nothing to do with GETTING saved, Works do not and will not get you saved. Works are required after you are saved. (See Ephesians 2:8 to 10)

Then how do they "get fired"----as you stated? That was in reference to those who were cast into outer darkness--because they did not magnify their gifts.

Quote:

Romans 4:2 to 6 says that Abraham was NOT justified by works.

He most certainly was:

James 2:24King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Genesis 26:4-5King James Version (KJV)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
10-24-2014, 08:44 PM
Saxon

Quote:

Your statement did not come from the Bible:

I was referring to the scripture that you posted. (Matthew 25:14-30) Did you not get that from the Bible

Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

They were already his servants.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness; he got fired.

It all came from the Bible.

Quote:

Then how do they "get fired"----as you stated? That was in reference to those who were cast into outer darkness--because they did not magnify their gifts.

Once a person is saves they are still responsible to obey the Lord. After you are saved you are expected to do what a Christian was created to do. (See Ephesians 2:10) The unprofitable servant did not do his duty to his Lord.

In John 15:10 the key is “If ye keep my commandments”. Keeping the commandments after you are saved is a requirement to abiding in Christ’s love. That is also how Jesus abided in his Father’s love. We, the saved are to keep Jesus’ commandments. That is also from the Bible.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Quote:

He most certainly was:

James 2:24King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Genesis 26:4-5King James Version (KJV)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Romans 4:2 to 6 says that Abraham was NOT justified by works. Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. To him that works the reward is not reckoned of grace it is debt. (God is never in a position that he is obligated to save anyone, he is no man’s debtor) The one that believes without works is counted as righteous. David has also described the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works. If grace has to be earned then it is no longer grace but works. (See Romans 11:6)

Grace is a term that describes how God gives. It is totally free, a gift and gifts are not earned. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

I have explained James’ remarks to you already so I won’t repeat myself on that. As for Genesis 26:4 and 5, Abraham was already justified by faith and was also subject to obeying the Lord as any believe is.
10-25-2014, 04:33 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxon View PostThose that did nothing got fired.One more time. Works has nothing to do with GETTING saved, Works do not and will not get you saved. Works are required after you are saved.

Required for what?
10-25-2014, 05:52 PM
Saxon

Required to live a Christian Life. (See Ephesians 2:10) Do you think that we are just to sit around and wait for the sweet by and by???

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.