Mormon Religion Denigrates Christianity

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09-16-2015, 10:41 PM
Grandma

Mormon Religion Denigrates Christianity

If Mormon doctrines agreed with Christianity their religion would be considered Christian. They wouldn't come here with angry at***udes. However, their doctrines don't agree. They get offended if we say they aren't Christians. Over the years Mormons have said that all denominations can't be Christian because there are so many. Now many of them say there ARE Christians outside the Mormon church. Really?

They teach that the Mormon church is the kingdom of God on earth.

Only if you are Mormon, they say, is your baptism valid.

Only Mormons have been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

They mock the Triune God, yet claim that God was once a finite being.

They teach that you must be married for time and eternity in one of their temples to spend eternity with the Father of Jesus.

They teach that you must be a worthy Mormon to attend one of their temples.

If a person's marriage ceremony is in the temple, non-member or non-worthy Mormon parents and friends are not allowed to attend the wedding.

What have they taught about non-Mormon churches?

Let's start with Joseph Smith.

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
Joseph Smith History - 1

What did Joseph Smith say about the Triune God?

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

This view of God as an incorporeal, immaterial, bodiless, partless, p***ionless being is now and has been from the days of the great apostasy from God and Christ, in the second and third centuries, the doctrine of Deity generally accepted by apostate Christendom.
(History of the Church, 1:LXXXVI).

What did the Apostle Bruce R. MCConkie say about the church of the devil?

What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? ...It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel ...It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts"
Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, p.54-55

And what is said about non-LDS (non-Mormons)?

"'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111; copyright 1996, Chapter 38

People who accept and live doctrines of men do not know the living God.
Bernard P. Brockbank, a general authority of the Mormon church from 1962 to his death, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, January 1973, p. 44

We, as Christians, haven't changed our doctrines. So when some of the Mormons claim there are Christians outside their church, you have to wonder how sincere they are being.
09-17-2015, 09:42 AM
Erundur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

If Mormon doctrines agreed with Christianity their religion would be considered Christian.

So since Mormonism is considered Christian, does that mean our doctrines agree with Christianity?

Quote:

They wouldn't come here with angry at***udes.

Since Protestants come here (and to other similar boards) with angry at***udes, does that mean their religion is not considered Christian?

Quote:

However, their doctrines don't agree.

Of course they do.

Quote:

They get offended if we say they aren't Christians.

Do Protestants mind if we say they aren't Christians?

Quote:

Over the years Mormons have said that all denominations can't be Christian because there are so many.

CFR!
09-17-2015, 10:47 AM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by childofgod

6. False. Marriage in the temple is required for exaltation which is only obtained in the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Anyone in any level of the celestial kingdom will spend the eternity with the Father and Jesus; those in the Terrestrial kingdom will spend eternity with Jesus albeit not receive a fullness of His glory.

I'm afraid that some of you younger people and converts have been misinformed.

Doctrine and Covenants 25
15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

COMPLETE OBEDIENCE BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE. But to be exalted one must keep the whole law. This is the great love he shows forth for his children: notwithstanding they sin and close their eyes against the truth, yet his arm is stretched out still, and he will feel after them and bring them back if they will keep his commandments; and if not, he will do for them just the best he can. Is going to bless them with all it is possible to give, and all shall be saved; all others will receive a place somewhere and it will be glorious unto them, but to receive the exaltation of the righteous, in other words eternal life, the commandments of the Lord must be kept in all things.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p. 6

SAINTS COMMANDED TO MARRY FOR ETERNITY.
The Lord has commanded us, as it is recorded in the revelations, that marriage among members of the Church should be performed in his holy house, and not for time only, but for time and all eternity. Therefore, those who are satisfied to receive a ceremony for time only, uniting them for this life, and are content with that, are ignorant of this fundamental principle of the gospel and its consequences, or they are in rebellion against the commandments of the Lord.
Now, what I want to say is intended very largely for the parents of the young people. I think the parents, perhaps, are more to be blamed, because, in many instances, very many instances, they have not taught their children the sacredness of the marriage covenant….
It fills my heart with sadness when I see in the paper the name of a daughter or a son of members of this Church, and discover that she or he is going to have a ceremony and be married outside of the temple of the Lord, because I realize what it means, that they are cutting themselves off from exaltation in the kingdom of God.

SORROW IN RESURRECTION IF NO ETERNAL MARRIAGE.
These young people who seem to be so happy now, when they rise in the resurrection-and find themselves in the condition in which they will find themselves-then there will be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and bitterness of soul; and they have brought it upon themselves because of their lack of faith and understanding of the gospel, and from, I am sorry to say, the encouragement they have received many times from their own parents….
Of course there are people who are not worthy to go to the temple, and therefore should not go to the temple. No one should go to the temple except those who are worthy, as the Lord has said, "who [have] overcome by faith," and are cleansed and are just and true. Then they can go to the temple. If they are unclean, if they lack the faith, they had better stay out until they get the faith and are clean.
Ibid, p. 60

Regarding the Terrestrial Kingdom, its inhabitants don't spend eternity with Jesus; Jesus is in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom and visits the Terrestrial Kingdom.

In Christian Love,

Grandma
09-17-2015, 11:24 AM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erundur

CFR!

I was speaking of online comments by Mormons on forums.

However, this comes close:

Is it to be wondered at, that from the sixteenth century onward, churches of man’s contriving have multiplied with phenomenal rapidity? Churches and churchly organizations professing Christianity as their creed have come to be numbered by hundreds. On every side is heard in this day, “Lo, here is Christ” or “Lo, there.” There are sects named from the circumstances of their origin—as the Church of England; others after their famous founders or promoters—as Lutheran, Calvinist, Wesleyan; some are known by peculiarities of doctrine or plan of administration—as Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Congregationalist; but down to the third decade of the nineteenth century there was no church on earth affirming name or ***le as the Church of Jesus Christ. The only organization called a church existing at that time and venturing to ***ert claim to authority by succession was the Catholic church, which for centuries had been apostate and wholly bereft of divine authority or recognition. If the “mother church” be without a valid priesthood, and devoid of spiritual power, how can her offspring derive from her the right to officiate in the things of God? Who would dare to affirm that man can originate a priesthood which God is bound to honor and acknowledge? Granted that men may and do create among themselves societies, ***ociations, sects, and even “churches” if they choose so to designate their organizations; granted that they may prescribe rules, formulate laws, and devise plans of operation, discipline, and government, and that all such laws, rules, and schemes of administration are binding upon those who ***ume membership—granted all these rights and powers—whence can such human ins***utions derive the authority of the Holy Priesthood, without which there can be no Church of Christ?
Jesus the Christ Manual, Chapter 40
09-17-2015, 11:54 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

If Mormon doctrines agreed with Christianity their religion would be considered Christian.

Could you give us examples of what is found in the Biblical NT--that is not found in the LDS church?

Since I started the question--I believe I should at least be willing to do what I am asking you to--so here is why I believe the faith alone theology is false--and the Biblical record testifying against it:

James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
09-19-2015, 06:08 PM
Grandma

If a person's marriage ceremony is in the temple, non-member or non-worthy Mormon parents and friends are not allowed to attend the wedding.

This is particularly heart-breaking to many parents. The father is denied the privilege of walking his daughter down the aisle. The mother may have saved her wedding dress for her daughter to wear. The mother looked forward to a beautiful ceremony which she would have been a part of.

One lady told how waiting in the Bride's Rioom looking in the mirror she felt so alone without her best friend or any relatives there. Another said that she had some CZ earrings that were rather small, and the temple workers made her remove them because they were "inappropriate." If they don't like the neckline on the bridal gown, they cover it with a _ickey.

The bride and groom have to wear green aprons and the groom has to wear a silly-looking hat.

Mormons get buried in temple garments with their green aprons, too.

:(
09-20-2015, 05:13 PM
Grandma

Since when did the Mormon church decide that families aren't important?

In God’s eternal plan, salvation is an individual matter; exaltation is a family matter.
Elder Russell M. Nelson, Salvation and Exaltation, General Conference, April 2008
09-20-2015, 09:43 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by childofgod

Families are important, that's why everyone is invited to come unto Christ by following His gospel. Nonmembers and unworthy members cannot enter because the former is not of the covenant and the latter doesn't keep theirs.

Erunder said we are Christians, you say we belong to the church of the devil. Which one of you is right? Are we brothers and sisters in Christ? If we are, consider this:

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. (Philippians 2:3)

Love,

Grandma
09-20-2015, 10:03 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by childofgod

We never said all others aren't Christians, we said they are not part of the Christianity established by Jesus Christ. You guys still follow what you PERCEIVE as Christianity.

How can someone in the "church of the devil" be a Christian?

Quote:

Originally Posted by childofgod

The Book of Mormon is clear that those not of the church of Jesus Christ are of the church of the devil. I don't know why critics think that's harsh. Its common sense. There's no other church other than the two.

1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ***** of all the earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 1
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—
10-02-2015, 12:47 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

How can someone in the "church of the devil" be a Christian?

1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ***** of all the earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 1
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

There is still no answer from the Mormons who post here.
10-02-2015, 01:03 PM
theway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

There is still no answer from the Mormons who post here.

Because you have been given the answer... To prove my point, answer me this question..... Who do you believe are of the Church of the Devil according to those verses?
10-02-2015, 01:37 PM
theway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

If a person's marriage ceremony is in the temple, non-member or non-worthy Mormon parents and friends are not allowed to attend the wedding.

This is particularly heart-breaking to many parents. The father is denied the privilege of walking his daughter down the aisle. The mother may have saved her wedding dress for her daughter to wear. The mother looked forward to a beautiful ceremony which she would have been a part of.

One lady told how waiting in the Bride's Rioom looking in the mirror she felt so alone without her best friend or any relatives there. Another said that she had some CZ earrings that were rather small, and the temple workers made her remove them because they were "inappropriate." If they don't like the neckline on the bridal gown, they cover it with a _ickey.

The bride and groom have to wear green aprons and the groom has to wear a silly-looking hat.

Mormons get buried in temple garments with their green aprons, too.

:(

Really???
Let's look at it from another point of view...

Which is more important to you?

That even though you will not see the ceremony as a parent, you will know that your daughter is marrying someone who has already covenanted, and has a history of putting God first in his life. You can also be comforted in knowing that your grandkids will be raised happy in an intact family, as the divorce rate for couples in the temple is at around 5%

Or... You get to see your daughter in a low-cut white dress, even though the odds are more likely that they were already living together before the marriage?..... (Meaning she wasn't alone in the bride chamber before the wedding:o). Or that you will get the opportunity to cry upon seeing your daughter; not only at the wedding, but also when she shows back up at your house. Because with secular marriages the odds are at 50% that that marriage will end in divorce?

But hey, she did get to wear her CZ earrings..... And that's what's important after all...
10-02-2015, 07:29 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Really???
Let's look at it from another point of view...

Which is more important to you?

That even though you will not see the ceremony as a parent, you will know that your daughter is marrying someone who has already covenanted, and has a history of putting God first in his life. You can also be comforted in knowing that your grandkids will be raised happy in an intact family, as the divorce rate for couples in the temple is at around 5%

Or... You get to see your daughter in a low-cut white dress, even though the odds are more likely that they were already living together before the marriage?..... (Meaning she wasn't alone in the bride chamber before the wedding:o). Or that you will get the opportunity to cry upon seeing your daughter; not only at the wedding, but also when she shows back up at your house. Because with secular marriages the odds are at 50% that that marriage will end in divorce?

But hey, she did get to wear her CZ earrings..... And that's what's important after all...

Now you are suggesting that Mormon women are holier than women who wear low-cut dresses. Well, I'm not here to brag about someone's holiness.

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
1 Samuel 16:7

Mormon leaders set ridiculous unbiblical srandards expecting women to have only one earring in each ear and to wear dresses to church every single Sunday. I wear modest clothing and no earrings. That doesn't make me holier than any other woman at church. Mormons expect men to wear coats and ties to p*** the sacrament. Jesus didn't set that requirement. The Bible doesn't tell people to dress differently for church than on orher days. Neither do your scriptures.

James 2
"1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your ***embly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

"8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."
10-02-2015, 09:43 PM
MickeyS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

Now you are suggesting that Mormon women are holier than women who wear low-cut dresses. Well, I'm not here to brag about someone's holiness.

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
1 Samuel 16:7

Mormon leaders set ridiculous unbiblical srandards expecting women to have only one earring in each ear and to wear dresses to church every single Sunday. I wear modest clothing and no earrings. That doesn't make me holier than any other woman at church. Mormons expect men to wear coats and ties to p*** the sacrament. Jesus didn't set that requirement. The Bible doesn't tell people to dress differently for church than on orher days. Neither do your scriptures.

James 2
"1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your ***embly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

"8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

It's simply to show reverence and respect towards the Lord, and to remain humble. I don't believe it means in anyway that we think we are better than anyone else, I think it to be quite the opposite, to simply try to remove earthly vanities. Priesthood holders are required to show respect and reverence in their duties of p***ing the Sacrament as it is a holy ordinance. They are required to wear dress pants, a white shirt and tie, a coat or jacket is not required. But as far as requiring a certain dress, those who,are simply attending church are not required to wear anything specific in order to come to the meetings. I see people all the time attend church in Levi's, women in slacks...we don't turn anyone away for not dressing to a certain standard. Those who wear Sunday dress to church are choosing to do so to show respect to The Lord. I don't see how that is a bad thing at all :)

There are bible verses regarding women to be modest and humble in dress, of course the descriptions in the verse below doesn't mean women today shouldn't braid their hair lol, but perhaps in that day braided hair represented an ungodly lifestyle.

1 Timothy 2: 9-10

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness (reverence and respect for others)and sobriety (a sense of what is appropriate); not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array (expensive showy things)

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
10-02-2015, 11:11 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by childofgod

6. False. Marriage in the temple is required for exaltation which is only obtained in the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Anyone in any level of the celestial kingdom will spend the eternity with the Father and Jesus; those in the Terrestrial kingdom will spend eternity with Jesus albeit not receive a fullness of His glory.

Only those in the Church of the Firstborn are His sons and daughters. They alone obeyed all the commandments.

Highest Level of Celestial Kingdom is the Church of the Firstborn
But the phrase "church of the Firstborn" does not have reference to the celestial kingdom in general. In May, 1843, twelve years after the vision of the celestial kingdom found in D&C 76, the Prophet taught, "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees" (D&C 131:1). Joseph Fielding Smith taught that only those who achieve the highest level of the celestial kingdom or exaltation are of the Church of the Firstborn: "Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. There will be many who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who shall never become members of the Church of the Firstborn. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:41; emphasis added). Again, he said: "Eternal life is life in the presence of the Father and the Son. Those who receive it become members of the 'Church of the Firstborn' and are heirs as sons and daughters of God. They receive the fulness of blessings. They become like the Father and the Son and are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:9).
Therefore, only those have been exalted are members of the Church of the Firstborn. Bruce R. McConkie taught: "as The Church of Jesus Christ is [God's] earthly church, so The Church of the Firstborn is [God's] heavenly church, albeit its members are limited to exalted beings, for whom the family unit continues and who gain an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world" (The Promised Messiah, p.47).

Temple Ordinances Necessary to Enter Church of Firstborn
The sacred ordinances performed in the temple are essential in becoming a member of the Church of the Firstborn. This was made clear by Joseph Smith. On May 4, 1842, the day the Prophet introduced the temple ordinances of the washing and anointing and the endowment in this dispensation, he wrote:

I spent the day in the upper part of the store . . . in council with General James Adams, of Springfield, Patriarch Hyrum Smith, Bishops Newel K. Whitney and George Miller, and President Brigham Young and Elders Heber C. Kimball and Willard Richards, instructing them in the principles and order of the Priesthood, attending to washings, anointings, endowments and the communication of keys pertaining to the Aaronic Priesthood, and so on to the highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood, setting forth the order pertaining to the Ancient of Days, and all those plans and principles by which any one is enabled to secure the fullness of those blessing which have been prepared for the Church of the Firstborn, and come up and abide in the presence of the Eloheim in the eternal worlds. (History of the Church 5:1-2; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.237; emphasis added)

In line with this, Brigham Young who was in attendance on this occasion later stated: "The ordinances of the house of God are expressly for the Church of the Firstborn" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.397; and Journal of Discourse, 8:154).
Though D&C 76:51-53 (quoted earlier) does not specifically state that temple ordinances are necessary for entrance into the Church of the Firstborn, it is, however, implied in verse 53 which states that one of the prerequisites for those who qualify for the celestial kingdom are those "who overcome by faith." In 1835, Joseph Smith taught the Quorum of the Twelve that temple ordinances were a necessary part of overcoming all things: "You need an endowment, brethren, in order that you may be prepared and able to overcome all things" (History of the Church, 2:309; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.91).

Joseph Fielding Smith taught necessity of temple ordinances to become a member of the Church of the Firstborn in these terms:

The higher ordinances in the temple of God pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom. . . . In order to receive this blessing, one must keep the full law, must abide the law by which that kingdom is governed; for, "He who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory." So being ordained an elder, or a high priest, or an apostle, or even President of the Church, is not the thing that brings the exaltation, but obedience to the laws and the ordinances and the covenants required of those who desire to become members of the Church of the Firstborn, as these are administered in the house of the Lord.

He then stated:

To become a member of the Church of the Firstborn, as I understand it, is to become one of the inner circle. We are all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by being baptized and confirmed, and there are many who seem to be content to remain such without obtaining the privileges of exaltation. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:42).

Again, on another occasion, he wrote:

Each person baptized into the Church is under obligation to keep the commandments of the Lord. He is under covenant, for baptism is a "new and an everlasting covenant." (D.C. 22:1.) When he has proved himself by a worthy life, having been faithful in all things required of him, then it is his privilege to receive other covenants and to take upon himself other obligations which will make of him an heir, and he will become a member of the "Church of the Firstborn." (The Way to Perfection, p.208)

Finally, he taught:

The Lord has made it possible for us to become members of the Church of the Firstborn, by receiving the blessings of the house of the Lord and overcoming all things. Thus we become heirs, "priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory," who shall "dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever," with full exaltation. Are such blessings worth having? (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:42-43)

Likewise, Bruce R. McConkie testified: "The temple ordinances open the door to gaining all power and all wisdom and all knowledge. Temple ordinances open up the way to membership in the Church of the Firstborn" (Conference Report, October 1955, p.13).

Temple Marriage Gate into Church of the Firstborn ...

Bruce Satterfield, The Church of the Firstborn, Department of Religious Education, Brigham Young University - Idaho

Doctrine and Covenants 25
15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.
10-03-2015, 08:26 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by childofgod

You're wrong about the Lord not setting specific clothing standards and I'll use both the Old and New Testaments to prove it.

I know what the Old Testament and New Testament say in regard to clothing. I notice that you twisted what I said. I said, "Mormons expect men to wear coats and ties to p*** the sacrament. Jesus didn't set that requirement."

Please show me just one Bible verse that says a person has to wear a coat and tie to p*** the sacrament (Mormon version of communion). There isn't even a verse that says men have to wear special clothing to church.

Love,

Grandma
10-04-2015, 12:17 AM
MickeyS

You

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

I know what the Old Testament and New Testament say in regard to clothing. I notice that you twisted what I said. I said, "Mormons expect men to wear coats and ties to p*** the sacrament. Jesus didn't set that requirement."

Please show me just one Bible verse that says a person has to wear a coat and tie to p*** the sacrament (Mormon version of communion). There isn't even a verse that says men have to wear special clothing to church.

Love,

Grandma

I'm not a historian, but I don't think they had coats and ties back then. But as childofgod stated, there is direct references to specific clothing in performing priesthood ordinances. And again...no coats required to p*** or bless the sacrament, just dress pants, white dress shirt and a tie. I can't see how showing respect to The Lord's Holy ordinances is a bad thing :confused: And the clothing required is very easy to obtain, they have everything at Walmart :) Plus, it's a great way to teach our young men the importance of their Priesthood callings and respect towards The Lord, it sets a great standard for them to follow. I love the reverence shown in our Sacrament meetings, it's wonderful :)
10-05-2015, 08:19 AM
theway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

Now you are suggesting that Mormon women are holier than women who wear low-cut dresses.

In a way that's exactly what I'm saying. The way you dress, (relative to the mores of society) is a reflection of the true you. You dress how you want people to perceive you. Mind you, I was a Punker or slightly Gothic after High School. I didn't follow trends, yet I dressed the part and expected people to judge me that way. No, you can not judge what is in a book by the cover.... But then why would you want to intentionally mislead someone about what's in your book with a misleading ***le and cover?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

Well, I'm not here to brag about someone's holiness.

Not exactly, however let's look at what you are here to brag about....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

I wear modest clothing and no earrings. That doesn't make me holier than any other woman at church.

It seems to you are saying that bragging about being "more holy" is BAD.... while bragging about being "less holy" is GOOD.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

Mormon leaders set ridiculous unbiblical srandards expecting women to have only one earring in each ear and to wear dresses to church every single Sunday.

Wow, what ridiculously high unattainable standards to only request that women wear one earring each ear. But then you just said you don't wear any, so I don't know why you are even complaining, seeing as though you don't even have a horse in this race.
Also it is not a requirement that women wear dresses on Sunday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

Mormons expect men to wear coats and ties to p*** the sacrament. Jesus didn't set that requirement.

Ironically I did wear a long skirt with sandals and a short sleeve white shirt while I p***ed the sacrament on my mission... Again it is not a required dress code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

The Bible doesn't tell people to dress differently for church than on orher days.

Yes it does...
1 Cor. 11:5-8
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

Do you obey that dress code?
But I think you are missing the point. The point is to dress modestly and in your best. I find it hypocritical that people will dress up for work in order to impress man... But will not dress up for God because they are just too lazy to put in the effort.
10-11-2015, 07:39 PM
Grandma

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

In a way that's exactly what I'm saying. The way you dress, (relative to the mores of society) is a reflection of the true you. You dress how you want people to perceive you. Mind you, I was a Punker or slightly Gothic after High School. I didn't follow trends, yet I dressed the part and expected people to judge me that way. No, you can not judge what is in a book by the cover.... But then why would you want to intentionally mislead someone about what's in your book with a misleading ***le and cover?

I'm not aware that I'm misleading people by the way I dress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Not exactly, however let's look at what you are here to brag about....
It seems to you are saying that bragging about being "more holy" is BAD.... while bragging about being "less holy" is GOOD.

Pride goes before the fall. I didn't claim to be more holy or less holy. Clothing and jewels don't make us holy. Jesus makes us holy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)

I haven't called evil good or good evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Wow, what ridiculously high unattainable standards to only request that women wear one earring each ear.

God didn't set that standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

But then you just said you don't wear any, so I don't know why you are even complaining, seeing as though you don't even have a horse in this race.

I'm saying that Mormons set unbiblical standards. Earrings aren't sinful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Ironically I did wear a long skirt with sandals and a short sleeve white shirt while I p***ed the sacrament on my mission... Again it is not a required dress code.

Which Priesthood did you hold?

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Yes it does...
1 Cor. 11:5-8
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

Where does that say "in church?" Where does that say anything about hemlines, dresses or earrings?

Quote:

Originally Posted by theway

Do you obey that dress code?
But I think you are missing the point. The point is to dress modestly and in your best. I find it hypocritical that people will dress up for work in order to impress man... But will not dress up for God because they are just too lazy to put in the effort.

Where did it say "in your best?" Who dresses up for work in order to impress man? How do you know why a person is wearing a certain article of clothing? How do you know that someone who dresses differently that you do is lazy?

Love,

Grandma
10-12-2015, 03:04 PM
MickeyS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma

I'm not aware that I'm misleading people by the way I dress.

Pride goes before the fall. I didn't claim to be more holy or less holy. Clothing and jewels don't make us holy. Jesus makes us holy.

I haven't called evil good or good evil.

God didn't set that standard.

I'm saying that Mormons set unbiblical standards. Earrings aren't sinful.

Which Priesthood did you hold?

Where does that say "in church?" Where does that say anything about hemlines, dresses or earrings?

Where did it say "in your best?" Who dresses up for work in order to impress man? How do you know why a person is wearing a certain article of clothing? How do you know that someone who dresses differently that you do is lazy?

Love,

Grandma

I seriously doubt God is going to bring it up at judgment day that we tried to be too respectful in His houses. I fail to see how being reverent and respectful in your dress...and respecting the body God created for you is a bad thing. Why would that be a bad thing?

I'm in the Primary Presidency (children age 3-11) and there is a noticeable difference from when they're wearing their Sunday dress and when they're wearing their play clothes. I know this because I've had practices for their program they put on once a year on Sunday and during the week. Both practices were held in the chapel, but the difference in their behavior was dramatic. They were much more reverent and respectful when they were wearing their Sunday dress.

The Way obviously served a mission on an island somewhere and was wearing what the locals wore. His point was this isn't some sort of tyrannical control thing. We don't turn people away at the door at church for what they're wearing. Asking the young men to wear simple white dress shirts, nice pants and ties to p*** the sacrament isn't unreasonable or impossible. It's quite easy. There are schools that require kids to have a specific dress code like white shirts, khakis...no short hemlines, ripped clothing or outrageous hair. Are you saying a church isn't as important as a school?

We are simply asked to be respectful, and modest. I was also in Young Women's (girls ages 12-18) and do you think it's wrong for us to encourage the girls to be modest in their dress, or do you encourage young girls to wear spaghetti straps, halter tops and mini skirts? Again...I doubt The Lord is going to condemn any leader or parent for encouraging their young impressionable girls to cover their bodies and not get caught up in the fashions of the world. There are better things to focus on then the latest style. I'm not sure why you're so against modest dress...I would like to know what's wrong with it. You seem to really abhor it.
08-17-2016, 10:08 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you give us examples of what is found in the Biblical NT--that is not found in the LDS church?

Since I started the question--I believe I should at least be willing to do what I am asking you to--so here is why I believe the faith alone theology is false--and the Biblical record testifying against it:

James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I'm still looking for an answer to this question. Anyone?
02-13-2017, 12:34 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Could you give us examples of what is found in the Biblical NT, as far as salvational doctrines go--that is not found in the LDS church?

Since I started the question--I believe I should at least be willing to do what I am asking you to--so here is why I believe the faith alone theology is false--and the Biblical record testifying against it:

James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I'm still looking for an answer to this question. Anyone?

Bump for anyone?