God as Spirit or flesh and bone

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Children under the age of 8 do not need baptism, if they die before that age.

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Do children under 8 years old sin?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Do children under 8 years old sin?

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Pretty sure the ones under 8 DAYS old don't sin, so that's all we need to know in order to conclude that it's wrong to say that "all have sinned" includes them.

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Pretty sure the ones under 8 DAYS old don't sin, so that's all we need to know in order to conclude that it's wrong to say that "all have sinned" includes them.

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But what about the question that I actually asked you?

Do children under 8 years old sin?

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Pretty sure the ones under 8 DAYS old don't sin, .

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Got a verse that teaches this?, or is it just your own idea you made up?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

But what about the question that I actually asked you?

Do children under 8 years old sin?

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Either it's wrong to say that "all have sinned" includes all infants and fetuses, or it's right to say it. That's the bottom line.

Which side are you on regarding this issue?

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Either it's wrong to say that "all have sinned" includes all infants and fetuses, or it's right to say it. That's the bottom line.

Which side are you on regarding this issue?

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Why are you dodging my question?

Do children under 8 years old sin?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Why are you dodging my question?

Do children under 8 years old sin?

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They sin.....but God is just and judges them accordingly...overlooking the sins of they who know not what they do.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

They sin.....but God is just and judges them accordingly...overlooking the sins of they who know not what they do.

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Do you really believe that God "overlooks" sin, any sin? All it cost to bring those who don't understand the difference between right and wrong is the blood of our dear Lord Jesus. I wouldn't call that "overlooking" their sin.. IHS jim

yes there is a bible verse that talks about god overlooking sins

Proof that these debates just go round and round---same stuff, over and over again.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Proof that these debates just go round and round---same stuff, over and over again.

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When someone (A criminal) comments the same crime over and over again do they not get the same lecture from the police and the judge? Of course! Have you given up the crime of worshiping three different Gods? As long as you haven;t the questions as to why not and the lectures on why it is wrong will continue.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Proof that these debates just go round and round---same stuff, over and over again.

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Pretty much. And, no one's mind ever seems to change, which is kind of like the the definition of "insane"....we keep doing the same thing, expecting a different outcome. Crazy. :)

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Originally Posted by Libby

Pretty much. And, no one's mind ever seems to change, which is kind of like the the definition of "insane"....we keep doing the same thing, expecting a different outcome. Crazy. :)

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What we say here are seeds.. A few will fall on fertile soil and grow.. Others will fall on hard soil and the feet of men will grind them into powder.. I will continue to scatter the seeds and allow God to bring the increase.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by jdjhere

DBerrie2000 said: "even when Jesus Christ is added in the same sentence:"

St John17:3--"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

The question is WHY is Jesus Christ even added to the same sentence? Because eternal life is dependent on what? By knowing the only true God and... who else? Why parallel the two?
1 John 5:20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

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Sorry, JD, but that dog just ain't gonna hunt. One cannot state that there are different persons as God, and ***ign them two different substances--one a physical body,(God the Son) and the other without a physical body(God the Father) and then state it is the same substance.

Unless you want to establish the fact, that as God, where they all combine--- there is only one--that they are of the same substance. In that case--is it a Spirit and a physical Body--or just a Spirit?


Bump for anyone.

The humanity of Christ has a body.....the divinity that he shares with the Father and the Spirit is pure Spirit.

Jesus has two full and complete natures....the father only has one, as does the Holy Spirit.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus has two full and complete natures....the father only has one, as does the Holy Spirit.

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Interesting.

So--does God have two natures--or one?

Perhaps I did not make it clear...

The Bible tells us that for our salvation, the Word became flesh...
The Word never stopped being fully God.
But so that man might forgiven the Word became flesh, and died.


So the nature of God did not change, for the Bible tells us that God changes not.
But the Word also took on himself the additional nature of mankind too.


Thus in the person of Christ we find both the nature of God (spirit) and the nature of man (flesh)

Two natures in the one person.
Fully God almighty, and fully man.

So The Son is fully God in the same way that the father and the Spirit are God, and that did not change.,
But unlike the Father or the Spirit the Son became man,,,,,,a spirit wrapped in flesh.




any questions?_________

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Perhaps I did not make it clear...

The Bible tells us that for our salvation, the Word became flesh...
The Word never stopped being fully God.
But so that man might forgiven the Word became flesh, and died.


So the nature of God did not change, for the Bible tells us that God changes not.
But the Word also took on himself the additional nature of mankind too.


Thus in the person of Christ we find both the nature of God (spirit) and the nature of man (flesh)

Two natures in the one person.
Fully God almighty, and fully man.

So The Son is fully God in the same way that the father and the Spirit are God, and that did not change.,
But unlike the Father or the Spirit the Son became man,,,,,,a spirit wrapped in flesh.

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How can the Son be unlike the Father--if they are the same God? Are you claiming that God is unlike Himself? IOW--if God the Son has a resurrected body of flesh and bones--and the Father does not--then how can they be the same God?

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Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

I wonder why you don't answer "God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones, God the Son has a resurrected body."

Could it be because it complicates your explanation?

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an odd question to ask.

First off, God never has a body of flesh and bones, or flesh and blood, or flesh and french fries etc.
God is spirit and is always spirit.,

But so that Jesus could die, Jesus was born with a 2nd nature too.

Jesus did not stop being God/Jesus did not stop being pure Spirit.
But Jesus also has a 2nd nature as a fully human man.

And it is because of this 2nd nature that Jesus has a body.


The father never had a 2nd nature, nor the Holy Spirit, .....so no bodies too

....

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

an odd question to ask.

First off, God never has a body of flesh and bones, or flesh and blood, or flesh and french fries etc.

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Then you don't believe Jesus Christ is God?

Luke 24:39--King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then you don't believe Jesus Christ is God?

.[/B]

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I believe I have stated very clearly on many topics here that Jesus is God Almighty....the one and only God there is.

You can check but I think I have made that point very clear.......over and over...........and over some more....

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I believe I have stated very clearly on many topics here that Jesus is God Almighty....the one and only God there is.

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Then you might want to collate that with your previous statements:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post an odd question to ask.

First off, God never has a body of flesh and bones, or flesh and blood, or flesh and french fries etc.

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Luke 24:39--King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

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I thought this might be a good question for the forum to discuss. Any comments?

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Of course.

The Book of Mormon says God is Spirit: Alma 18:26-28, Alma 22:8-11

While the D&C 130:22 says yes: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as a man's; the Son also...".

But D&C 38:1-7 says that Jesus is invisible: "I am in your midst and ye cannot see me."

While D&C Section 130:22 insists God has a body.

LoF says that the Godhead consists of both.. two personages, God the Father and God the Son, "the Father being a personage of spirit...[and] the Son,... a personage of tabernacle... and is called the Son because of the flesh..." The Son possesses "the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit... and these three cons***ute the Godhead, and are one..."

Alma 18:26-28 says God is a Great Spirit, confirming John 4:24 ("God is Spirit").

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie claims John 4:24 is mistranslated (Mormon Doctrine, "God As A Spirit"). Joseph Smith even omits that p***age from his "Inspired Version" of the Bible, perhaps for that same reason, perhaps not, but never mind that neither Smith nor McConkie seem to notice that Alma 18:26-28 (supposedly a Divinely inspired work) has the same translation as John 4:24, the alleged "mistranslated" and therefore "uninspired" work.

This is explained by Mormons by saying of course God is Spirit, we all are spirit because we have a spirit and so does God. But, the LoF p***age clearly points out the difference between the Father and the Son in that the Son is a "personage of tabernacle" and "of the flesh" while the Father is a "personage of Spirit."

Confused? You should be.

The problem is plain here; Once you tell a lie you have to keep telling lies, and eventually the truth catches up with you.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

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I thought this might be a good question for the forum to discuss. Any comments?

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The FATHER has no flesh nor bones. HIS SON JESUS TOOK ON the physical body.
John 4:24
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
NKJV

And Jesus said:

Luke 24:39
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."
NKJV

For CHRISTIANS that is pretty much the END of the discussion.
The Father is Spirit
Spirits do not have flesh and bones.

Sorry, but you cannot make the God of the Bible into a mere man (even if you call it an 'exalted' man). God is NOT a man. nor the son of a man.

Num 23:19
19 "God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
NKJV

Now will you want to disagree with GOD about it?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The fact of the matter is, Apologette--you have delved in precious little Biblical verse discussion. Anyone who have read your post knows that you mine in the dirt shafts--and the Bible is not in your forte. That is a fact.

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According to WHO? YOU? YOU seem to have little or NO understanding of scripture at all. SO WHO ARE YOU to say the Bible is not in Apologette's forte? She CLEARLY knows more of the Bible than you do imho.

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Originally Posted by Berean

Of course.

The Book of Mormon says God is Spirit: Alma 18:26-28, Alma 22:8-11

While the D&C 130:22 says yes: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as a man's; the Son also...".

But D&C 38:1-7 says that Jesus is invisible: "I am in your midst and ye cannot see me."

While D&C Section 130:22 insists God has a body.

LoF says that the Godhead consists of both.. two personages, God the Father and God the Son, "the Father being a personage of spirit...[and] the Son,... a personage of tabernacle... and is called the Son because of the flesh..." The Son possesses "the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit... and these three cons***ute the Godhead, and are one..."

Alma 18:26-28 says God is a Great Spirit, confirming John 4:24 ("God is Spirit").

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie claims John 4:24 is mistranslated (Mormon Doctrine, "God As A Spirit"). Joseph Smith even omits that p***age from his "Inspired Version" of the Bible, perhaps for that same reason, perhaps not, but never mind that neither Smith nor McConkie seem to notice that Alma 18:26-28 (supposedly a Divinely inspired work) has the same translation as John 4:24, the alleged "mistranslated" and therefore "uninspired" work.

This is explained by Mormons by saying of course God is Spirit, we all are spirit because we have a spirit and so does God. But, the LoF p***age clearly points out the difference between the Father and the Son in that the Son is a "personage of tabernacle" and "of the flesh" while the Father is a "personage of Spirit."

Confused? You should be.

The problem is plain here; Once you tell a lie you have to keep telling lies, and eventually the truth catches up with you.

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Bump for DBerrie

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Perhaps I did not make it clear...

The Bible tells us that for our salvation, the Word became flesh...
The Word never stopped being fully God.
But so that man might forgiven the Word became flesh, and died.


So the nature of God did not change, for the Bible tells us that God changes not.
But the Word also took on himself the additional nature of mankind too.


Thus in the person of Christ we find both the nature of God (spirit) and the nature of man (flesh)

Two natures in the one person.
Fully God almighty, and fully man.

So The Son is fully God in the same way that the father and the Spirit are God, and that did not change.,
But unlike the Father or the Spirit the Son became man,,,,,,a spirit wrapped in flesh.




any questions?_________

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I really like my answer here.
I believe it really addressed the very core of the doubt that some non-Christians might have about the Lord.

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Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Then quit reading your posts. They are full of them.

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More snot-nosed snark.

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Originally Posted by Christian

According to WHO? YOU? YOU seem to have little or NO understanding of scripture at all. SO WHO ARE YOU to say the Bible is not in Apologette's forte? She CLEARLY knows more of the Bible than you do imho.

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Then perhaps you could give us some examples of Apologette using the Biblical scriptures?

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

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Originally Posted by Christian

The FATHER has no flesh nor bones. HIS SON JESUS TOOK ON the physical body.
John 4:24
[COLOR=#b22222]24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

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Then those who worship Him are spirit also.

So--does God have a body of flesh and bones? You do believe there is only one God?

Luke 24:39--King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

God does not have a body of flesh and bones.





Jesus is both God and man.


The human nature of Jesus has a body of flesh and bone
The divine nature of Jesus does not have a body of flesh and bone.



two natures in the one person......Amen!

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

God does not have a body of flesh and bones.

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Then, IMO--that is an admission you don't believe Jesus is God:

Luke 24:39--King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then, IMO-.......

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???

when have I ever asked for your opinion?

I really don't care what you believe.

It's like they say, "You can lead a horse to water.......but......"



the only thing Im actually obligated to do on your behalf is to be ready always to give to you an answer, the reason for the hope I have in Christ.


Im not obligated to force you to believe...

Im just telling you the only correct answer....

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Originally Posted by Billyray

When Jesus voluntarily lowered himself to become like one of us wouldn't that include Jesus following God the Father like we are asked to do?

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This is the correct answer...

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then, IMO--that is an admission you don't believe Jesus is God:

Luke 24:39--King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

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Jesus is both God and man...

Thus while I can say the God does not have a body of flesh, I can yet say that Jesus has a body of flesh, yet is also God.

For the nature of God did not change in Jesus, but with the nature of God Jesus also has the nature of man...

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Is not Jesus God also? How can God have a body of flesh and bones--and be a Spirit only--without a body of flesh and bones?

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The answer is that Jesus is fully "man"....
So in his human nature Jesus has a body of flesh.

God the Father does not have a human nature like Jesus has.

This means that God the father is equal to God the son in his divine nature....but that Jesus has a 2nd nature that the Father does not have.
And it is only because Jesus has this 2nd human nature that Jesus also has a body of flesh.

so to review:

God does not have a body.
God is not a man

Jesus is both God and Man
Jesus has a body


any questions?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

You have God having both a Spirit and a physical body. Is that true?

Aren't the Father and Son the same God?

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So WHERE IS THE PHYSICAL BODY of the HOLY SPIRIT? Oh, HE IS GOD, but HE HAS NO FLESH OR BONES??? Consistent? Naaah. the berry has no explanation that fits Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

"so to review:

God does not have a body.
God is not a man

Jesus is both God and Man
Jesus has a body


any questions?"

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I just came in to find the same arguments going round and round ;)

....and to see the "christians" are still adamantly arguing how God the Father and Jesus are different and not the same.

In their nature as God, the Father and the Son are equal

But with the nature of God we read the the Son also took the nature of man to himself.
Thus he never stopped being equal to God, but he also has a 2nd nature being equal to us humans.

So the Son is both God almighty and man...