from a political perspective, I dont have a problem voting for a Mormon like Mitt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

What do you think about Rick robo-calling

---

While I actually think that making an appeal to Dems is a very good idea, and is one of the means to bring new people into the Party by getting them used to voting Republican....

Yet, Im not really a guy who likes to get robo-calls myself, and I tend to vote against people interrupt my day with such things....


But appealing to Dems to come out and vote for you is a VERY GOOD THING, not only for Rick, but also for the future of the Party as a whole....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

..... What excuse do you think Rush will come up for this bad behavior?

---

I dodnt think that appealing to Dems is a bad thing to do at all....I wish more Republicans would do the same...

Appealing to Dems, like the Pro-Life Dems is one way to get some Liberals over the 'hump" of voting for a Republican.

Its a lot more easy to draw Dems to the republican party if you get them to vote for a Republican in a Primary election.

Its only human nature to support later in the general election the same person you voted for in the primary....

Give credit to Rush, this is a very smart idea...and should be part of every Republican Primary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I dodnt think that appealing to Dems is a bad thing to do at all....I wish more Republicans would do the same...

Appealing to Dems, like the Pro-Life Dems is one way to get some Liberals over the 'hump" of voting for a Republican.

Its a lot more easy to draw Dems to the republican party if you get them to vote for a Republican in a Primary election.

Its only human nature to support later in the general election the same person you voted for in the primary....

Give credit to Rush, this is a very smart idea...and should be part of every Republican Primary.

---

It is one thing for Rush to do this; it is another for a candidate. It smells of desperation from the guy who touts himself as the "conservative."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

It is one thing for Rush to do this; it is another for a candidate. It smells of desperation from the guy who touts himself as the "conservative."

---

from the Parties point of view its a very good idea and I wish a lot more Conservatives would make a clear statement of reaching-out to Dems who on some issues might share more with the Republicans than with the pro-Abortion Liberals.

Does it smell of desperation?...oh yes..thats clear.

and personally I dont actually like any types of robo-calls, so Rick did not win any points with me for that part of this.

But the idea to try to get Dems to vote for you is not only smart, its a very 'good" thing for the Party to see happen.

What we always have to remember is that there are a LOT of conservative Dems out there,,,,,they are the Dems who came out strong for Ronald Reagan.

Thus Rick has strong historical support for attempting to bring some more Conservative Dems out to vote for a Republican....

I hope that idea catches on....

In the general election, yes, we hope many democrats vote republican. In the primaries...well, here is what I see. To win a presidential election anymore, it doesn't just take a person with an idea, but it takes organization. We can see this already briefly in the primaries. Newt and Rick did not get on the ballot for lack of organization. In the primaries, this may not come across as that big of a deal, but lack of organization can kill you. My view on Rick is that this primary is a good practice run for him just as it was for Mitt last time through. He is seeing where his mistakes are both in organization and what he should not be talking about. For example, he keeps saying things that speak to inexperience and lack of knowledge.

So, this idea of Rick's may sound good, but while he may win the battle (trying to undo his lack of organization with a strategy to get the dems to vote for him), I think it will ultimately loss the war as he is not prepared.

at this point in time...Rick is mostly playing for the open convention....same as Newt.

That is their only hope at this point.

The fact is that while Mitt cant just coat to victory, , all Mitt has to do at this point is not screw up, or have anything come up that screws up his walk to victory.


At this point Rick is really thinking about only one thing....the VP spot.

Rick needs to cause as much damage to Mitt in the next few weeks to show it's worth getting him on the ticket so as to bring in the conservative vote.


What we have learned in the last 3 weeks is that Mitt is going to lose against Obama big time...that Mitt cant even get the support of a minor percent of the Conservative vote, and without it he has ZERO chance of beating Obama.

Mitt has just dont nothing to imprive his odds of getting the support of the conservatives, and each day that p***es he sinks more away from where he should be.

You want to know what Mitt needs to do?
Mitt needs to be on a stage standing next to Sarah Palin.....


thats about the best chance he has right now....

Yes, and I think it would be rediculous to put someone in during an open convention who received less support in the general population than the leader did.

I question the mindset of "hey, the leader didn't get enough votes, let's put in the second or third place guy and see if he can do better?" (And why would they do better if they did not do well in the primaries?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, and I think it would be rediculous to put someone in during an open convention who received less support in the general population than the leader did.

I question the mindset of "hey, the leader didn't get enough votes, let's put in the second or third place guy and see if he can do better?" (And why would they do better if they did not do well in the primaries?)

---

I think that the people that are really pushing to get the the convention, open it up to get rid of Mitt, and pick a new guy..have no intention of picking Rick or Newt.....

My views of this are the following..

Mitt has won the states that he had to win....yes, he did not win by much, but he still knew he had to win them and he did...

Thus I do not se any chance right now of an open convention....I just dont see it getting the big push it needs because Mitt won when he had to and thats-that.

While Rush and others in the conservative wing are still talking about an "Open Convention"...I dont see that happening unless something rather stunning happens to the Mitt campaign.

Right now I see the following...

Ron Paul is in this to try to work a back-room deal to get his son on the ticket

Newt is in this to pay-back Mitt for Iowa, and to have a center role at the convention.

Rick is in this to get the VP spot.





However...I have always felt that Huntsman will get the VP spot....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I




However...I have always felt that Huntsman will get the VP spot....

---

With Mitt? I can't see it. I think he would go for someone we haven't seen at all yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

With Mitt? I can't see it. I think he would go for someone we haven't seen at all yet.

---

Before this race started...before anyone had announced they would run....when the top of the media list was only Sarah Palin...I wrote the two names that i guessed would lead the Republican ticket.

mitt for pres
Huntsmen for VP

I believe that huntsment brings the two things to the office of VP I look for in a guy right now.

#1 - he knows the Chinese, and the fact is that China is where America gets it's cash, and if China ever got mad at us and held back from borrowing us the cash we need, this country would close in 24 hours....

#2 - he hates Mitt on a personal level....They have had words in the past and dont like each other personally at all...and this means he will NEVER be a "yes man" to Mitt....he will say whats on his mind...and Mitt will need that from the way i have watch Mitt's team screw up even easy calls like the tax return issue...clearly Mitt has too many Yes Men around him

I Mitt/Huntsman team would be good....


The problem with this is that Huntsman was just ****py in the debates....whereas Rick is well practiced at being in a debate...and when the two VP's debate all we want to see is our guy not screw up.......

I worry that because Huntsman is so bad at being in a debate he could **** the whole election...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Before this race started...before anyone had announced they would run....when the top of the media list was only Sarah Palin...I wrote the two names that i guessed would lead the Republican ticket.

---

He won't pick Huntsman because there is more going on than just China.

I think he will...If you have been watching the news you would notice that Obama is moving all our ships and fleets to Southeast asia.....

We also are closing bases in the middle east and starting to build bases in Asia....

I think what Obama sees going on is that china is building up to start taking an active role in that whole area...and America is going to counter this so as to try to keep Free China free.....

There is also the North Korea situation....

Im thinking that Mitt will actually need help in this area...and the most likely name at the top of the list is Huntsman...

or rather I should say that on paper Huntsman looks like a good pick.

The problem is again that Huntsman does not help him get elected at all.

the guy had a lot of issues with conservatives, and right now if Mitt wants to get elected hi has to consider a name for VP that brings the conservatives to his side....

Well, Mitt certainly won't be picking Santorum. I don't think those pastors did their homework when getting together and deciding by vote that they would all try to use their influence to back Santorum.

"One of the top donors to Santorum's charity was also the beneficiary of an $8 million Santorum-sponsored federal earmark, according to published reports."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/santor...ry?id=15287424

I was reading the news this morning and a poster was posting some of Santorum's ethics problems and so I looked into it further (Santorum has a slew of them.) It appears that Santorum was selling his influence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, Mitt certainly won't be picking Santorum. ......

---

we shall see....No one knows the future right now, or how things will work out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

we shall see....No one knows the future right now, or how things will work out.

---

Santorum is too big of a liability between his unethical behavior regarding receiving gifts from those he gave earmarks as well as his lack of education regarding Puerto Rico stating English should be their official language or his delving into things that shouldn't be federal discussions, but personal (birth control)....there is no way that Mitt would pick him up.

To me, the way it comes across is that the only reason he is doing well is because of bunch of pastors got together and decided to use their influence to back him, but it appears that they did not do their homework before doing so. It makes them appear uneducated as well as those who follow them blindly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

bunch of pastors got together and decided to use their influence to back him, ....

---

Yes, Rick does have a good chunk of the support of the good Christians within the Party, this is true.

And as we have seen, Mitt has no clue how to attract the very most religious of the party, and they are the very same people that will decide if he can beat Obama or not.

So does rick have a stong enough case to make as being someone who can delivir the Christian vote?...

I dont know...

The SC Primary taught us a very important lesson, in that it showed us once and for all that the most religion wing of the party would vote for a bag of dirt rather than vote for Mitt.

Im sure this lesson was not lost on Mitt not his staff as they put names of the list of possible VPs.


Mitt knows he has to find some way to get some interest from people of faith, Mitt has got to understand that just saying "Me or Obama" is a guaranteed way to lose an election.

Mitt has to find a way to get the Christians and Pro-Life Republicans eager to vote for his ticket.....


I dont know what he is going to do....

We shall see how well he has learned from the SC primary...

What do you think now Alan? Should Santorum get out of the race as he has no real chance of winning it and now it is just wasted dollars and time that could be spent going after Obama?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What do you think now Alan? Should Santorum get out of the race as he has no real chance of winning it a

---

HECK NO!.....

REMEMBER, the reason that this has went the way it has is because Mitt has Zero support amount conservatives....thus Rick knows that if he can hang in until the convention there is a chance he can make his pitch to the members of the convention to suspend the rules.....

Basically that means to hold all the voting and results so far as a moot point, and simply open the floor up to take names...

I think right now Paul, Newt and Rick see a lot of support for an open convention and so that is why there is no chance of them wanting to get out.


Now money is another issue that may decide this.

Newt should have been out of the race a long time ago, but his money man kept writing checks.


If I were to give advice to Rick it would be to start writing the best speech you can give...and give it at the convention and at that point it will come down to a vote to suspend the rules or not.....

Santorum had the largest number of democrat voters voting for him in Wisconsin.

I absolutely cannot see making Rick the nominee at the convention. Do you mean to tell me that you think the GOP is so ****** that they would put in someone who has not done as well as another candidate and that NOW, at the last moment, it would be better to put in your second place guy?

I think Marco Rubio said it best about an dog fight at the convention---this would not be good for the GOP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Do you mean to tell me that you think the GOP is so ****** that they would put in someone who has not done as well as another candidate and that NOW, at the last moment, it would be better to put in your second place guy?

I think Marco Rubio said it best about an dog fight at the convention---this would not be good for the GOP.

---

Marco Rubio, as well as everyone else in this race at this point is doing the very same thing..."Applying for the VP spot on the ticket"




Now let me talk a little about Rick's point of view at this point in the election.


Rick knows how to do math...
Rick knows that Mitt has the primary won.

But rick also knows that Mitt lacks the needed support of conservatives to beat Obama....
Therefore Rick now considers the election all about setting himself up to run next time against Biden.

Thats who Rick is really running against at this point,,,Biden.

Rick knows he has to get a lot of people to be supporters of him so that in the next go-around he is sitting with a built-in lead into Iowa and the rest of the future primaries.

Also on Rick's mind is the off-chance that Mitt will pick him to be his VP.
Rick knows that at this point his only chance of being named the VP is showing in the last few primarys that there simply is a core conservative base of the Republican Party that will not support Mitt, but will support Rick, and thereby if named as Mitt's VP he would be able to deliver the conservative voting block.

this is one of the main reasons that Rick is still out there attempting to win a few more primaries before the convention...

Rick knows that he needs to have one or two more Primary wins to be able to tell Mitt and he needs him or else has no chance at all against Obama in the fall.


So Rick really needs to do all he can at this point to damage Mitt is every way he can think of , in order to show that there is still a large conservative base that is against Mitt, even now at the end....



Thats the other thing Julie I would point out to you...

That being the question...Why does Rick still get any votes?

Republicans do not support the underdog...we hate to be on the losing team...
Thus according to most years at this point, Mitt should be all alone in this as the other guys would have dropped out because no one would vote for the clear loser..

yet primary after primary have shown us that no matter what, there is still a large base of Republicans that will take the time to go vote for a guy with no chance at all , just to make a "point"


thats it....every vote now by any Republican for Rick is only made to make a "point"

Rick knows this...

Mitt knows this....


and....

Biden knows this.....

I don't think Mitt will ever put Rick in as VP---he has two many flaws that have lead him to be the number two guy in this race.

Mitt is smarter than that--he will put in someone that voters would see as a number one guy had Mitt not been in--someone they will trust if Mitt should die, etc. Right now, Rick isn't likeable enough to beat Mitt. He is losing by more than half.

I am not sure why Rick stays in the race. People in politics say he should get out before he becomes seen as a pain rather than a helper. When Mitt saw he couldn't win the last race, he bowed out gracefully and became a major contributor for McCain. Santorum should show the same cl***.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am not sure why Rick stays in the race. ......

---

Read my post above.


Rick knows how to do math as much as we do....HE KNOWS HOW TO ADD...

So Rick is not under any delusion that he can win enough votes to sway this election to his side.
But Rick also sees something that all the rest of us see as well, Rick sees that even if everyone in the Party knows full well that Mitt has it in the bag, still people still keep voting for Rick no matter what.

And these core Rick supporters that still vote at this point for Rick represent the very core conservatives that Mitt needs to beat Obama.
Everyone sees this fact.
Mitt knows that down the line he has to attract the core conservatives of the Republican party to himself in large numbers or there is no point in thinking he can beat Obama...

So right now everyone is doing a little dance.

Rick knows that Mitt has to pick a strong conservative as his VP.
Mitt knows that to beat Obama he needs a strong conservative vote.
Mitt also knows that the traditional way to build support with conservatives is to offer them a place on the ticket.

Thus Rick's name as well as a lot of other names are starting to be discussed openly now as Mitt's VP.

and another thing to keep in mind...
Rick is not at all interested in dropping out now to make Mitt a stronger person against Obama later.
Remember, Rick is thinking of the next election, and that if Mitt cant beat Obama this time it will leave Rick in the lead position going into the next Presidential election.

Like it or not, Rick and Ron Paul and Newt are all looking down the road to .....Iowa in 2016

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

and another thing to keep in mind...
Rick is not at all interested in dropping out now to make Mitt a stronger person against Obama later.
Remember, Rick is thinking of the next election, and that if Mitt cant beat Obama this time it will leave Rick in the lead position going into the next Presidential election.

Like it or not, Rick and Ron Paul and Newt are all looking down the road to .....Iowa in 2016

---

So, we have Rick who is not interested in making Mitt a stronger candidate to beat Obama but to his own election possiblities in 2016. Enough said!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, we have Rick who is not interested in making Mitt a stronger candidate to beat Obama but to his own election possiblities in 2016. Enough said!

---

Yes, Rick and Ron Paul and Newt are running "against' Mitt....when you run against someone you seek to beat them,,,to defeat them....not help them.

Ron Paul is in this for the ability to push his son forward, Newt and Rick are looking down the road to 2016 and Iowa....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Yes, Rick and Ron Paul and Newt are running "against' Mitt....when you run against someone you seek to beat them,,,to defeat them....not help them.

Ron Paul is in this for the ability to push his son forward, Newt and Rick are looking down the road to 2016 and Iowa....

---

Yes, but when it is clear that you cannot defeat them and instead of looking to make improvements in 2012 and supporting the guy who has the best shot---and rather look to your own election in another 4 years...well, that is selfishness at its finest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, but when it is clear that you cannot defeat them .....

---

people have to look down the road....and set themselves in a position that they think will be better.

Rick does not work for the Republican party.....Newts is not being paied to make Mitt look better.....Ron Paul does not owe anything to Republicans or to Mitt personally.

So the idea that any of these guys has any interest at all in helping Mitt is silly......

That is why Mitt needs to name a strong Conservative as his VP or he simply has ZERO chance of getting the conservative voter support he needs to beat Obama..

Without the correct person named as Mitt's VP, the election is over and its a huge waste of time.

Mitt needs to name a person that Rush cant wait to vote for!
Mitt needs to find someone that will be able to speak the language of the conservatives.

Rick knows this and that is why he has tried so hard over the last month to show he can bring the conservatives with him should he be named as Mitt's VP....

[QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

people have to look down the road....and set themselves in a position that they think will be better.

Rick does not work for the Republican party.....Newts is not being paied to make Mitt look better.....Ron Paul does not owe anything to Republicans or to Mitt personally.

So the idea that any of these guys has any interest at all in helping Mitt is silly......

---

It is not silly at all. Yes, you have said it best--Rick does not work for the Republican party and is more interested in self interest than this country. That is the point you keep making and I accept it. I just think it is very selfish. When Mitt, in 2008, was not in a position to win, he stopped his campaign to help McCain. That speaks to the character of both men, I believe.

Quote:

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Rick Santorum's decision to drop out of the Republican presidential race came after he spent the holiday weekend evaluating the race with his family, who were grappling with the latest hospitalization of his 3-year-old daughter Bella. http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

---

'

From the news tonight.

Alan, I am curious where you stand now that Rick and Newt are effectively out of the race.

(I am glad that Rick wisened up by the way---and showed he cared more about the 2012 and family more than self.)

No computer here...only phone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

(I am glad that Rick wisened up by the way---and showed he cared more about the 2012 and family more than self.)

---

well...I know that this is what Rick wants you and the Party to think.

Rick wants to have that image in the back of your mind , should Obama win and the next election we find that Rick is then sitting in the same top spot that Mitt had in this election.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

well...I know that this is what Rick wants you and the Party to think.

Rick wants to have that image in the back of your mind , should Obama win and the next election we find that Rick is then sitting in the same top spot that Mitt had in this election.

---

I don't think he will be...but we shall see.

What do you think now---as an fiscally conservative EV---will you support Mitt?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

.

What do you think now---as an fiscally conservative EV---will you support Mitt?

---

do you even read my posts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

do you even read my posts?

---

Yes, I know you say that his religion is not what is the determiner for you--I guess I just haven't seen you say you would support him. Maybe in a post to someone else maybe, but not in a discussion with me.

Julie, how many times did I have to read that if Rick or Newt beat Mitt that you would stay home and not vote for him?

It was like your theme....

Will it then be surprising for you to learn that others feel as you do, but just about a different name?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Julie, how many times did I have to read that if Rick or Newt beat Mitt that you would stay home and not vote for him?

It was like your theme....

Will it then be surprising for you to learn that others feel as you do, but just about a different name?

---

Okay---I just wanted to know if you would really vote for a Mormon. It appears that when push comes to shove, the answer is no.

Yes, I did not like Newt or Rick because both had ethical violations. Newt received a fine from an ethics committee and Rick was voted one of the top corrupt politicians for receiving gifts from those he gave all those earmarks to. That did create a problem for me. I liked Rick at first, but then when he became "vetted' --well, I don't want another politician who can be bought. We have that already.

But I don't look at the religion of a person. I have voted for many non-mormons in my life and will continue to do so. I like Mitt because I believe he will cut government waste, get rid of cooperate loop-holes, and free up our businesses to compete both here and globally. And I am not voting on his abortion position many years ago, but rather his voting record.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

..... It appears that when push comes to shove, the answer is no.

.

---

I can only say that when you look at me you are looking at the typical conservative voter....
and as a typical conservative voter, I noticed that I did not have to push that hard to hear you say you would never vote at all if one of the other guys won the Primary and beat Mitt.

Your mind was set from the beginning and as far as I could tell it was "Mitt or forget it".

Well, it may interest you to know that there are conservatives that have much the same "My guy of forget it" at***ude that you were so quick to state.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I can only say that when you look at me you are looking at the typical conservative voter....
and as a typical conservative voter, I noticed that I did not have to push that hard to hear you say you would never vote at all if one of the other guys won the Primary and beat Mitt.

Your mind was set from the beginning and as far as I could tell it was "Mitt or forget it".

Well, it may interest you to know that there are conservatives that have much the same "My guy of forget it" at***ude that you were so quick to state.

---

Actually, if you look back to my posts--you will see that there was a time I was supporting Rick as an alternative to Mitt. (Mitt has always been my first choice because he is a smart businessman and governor.) I did not jump up and down for John Hunt, also a Mormon. So, when I thought Rick was on the rise, I started looking at him---the same way I did Obama when I was not thrilled with McCain.

So, why was I against Newt? Because it is apparent from his history that he goes off at the mouth and has a history of ethics violations. This was not exactly what I had in mind for a President. So, then, I took a good look at Rick. Yes, I liked what he said. That is why I was sad to see that he also had ethical questions. As noted, he was rated in the top 4 corrupt politicians. Believe me, I would have happily voted for Rick had I not seen something so abysmal. So, it appears that there are many others like me who saw Rick as not being the best choice for the GOP.

So, the only reason I have heard that you do not like Mitt is because of his past stance on abortion. Yet, his voting record shows him as pro-choice. So now I wonder, what are you reasons for not backing Mitt? I gave you ample evidence why both Newt and Rick were VERY problematic.

I suppose you could vote for Ron Paul. But what if your choices are Mitt or Obama? Will you really give us Obama for 4 more years and his disastorous economic record over Mitt's past abortion stance?

you were very clear....that if Newt beat Obama that you would not bother to vote for anyone at all.

It did not matter how bad a president Obama was...
It did not matter that one guy running would be a Republican and thus in position to name judges and sign bills supported by other Republicans.....

You would simply never in a million years support him.

Thus it should not be surprising to you to then later see now how your same mind set has caught on.....

Just different names but the same determined mind set.