from a political perspective, I dont have a problem voting for a Mormon like Mitt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Has everyone seen the newest polling numbers coming out of Ohio?....

Very interesting....
It appears that the election now has a new front runner in Rick!


http://www.syracuse.com/newsflash/in...367e06f0510970

---

It appears that the evangelical "christian right" are the lemmings, their cult leaders had hoped they would be. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now to the issue of tax returns, why is this such a big deal?

The answer is that it is a valid concern to know where someone is getting their money.
This helps us all know where a person's heart is...what they are up to.

Knowing where a guy is getting the most money helps us all be able to trust that the person is not working for China, or other foreign governments, or in the pocket of special interests.

As to what the people do with their money?...thats more a personal issue.

As long as they dont spend it doing something against the law its not really any of our business what a guy spends his money on.

We all know that all these guys are giving to different causes out of their great abundance, and that none of us is saying that Mitt, Newt, Rick or Paul , gave so much money away they ended up in the poor house.

Im sure a guy who is worth around 300 million can get a nice reputation for cutting checks for different needy causes over the years...
and if we were deciding who was to be president on the question of who gave more of their money away?, then this question would not be moot.

But we are not deciding who gave the most money away, so the question as to what Mitt and Rick do with their wealth is moot.

The only issue with getting the tax returns out is that we all can know where they "earn" their money.

I dont actually care if they spend most of it on buying ice cream and cigarettes.

---

The bigger question is where does Rick make his money? The fact that he only gives such a meager amount to charity while making millions speaks to his real beliefs about charitable giving in the U.S.---at the same time, he is a huge supporter of foreign aid which has been shown to aid corruption in this country as well as the country given to while statistically proven that it hurts the poor in aid-country. Sheesh---I swear, I would love to find any evidence that this guy actually learned something in school.

I don't think the amount of money you have dictates the amount of aid you give. I give well over 10%--more than just ***he, and I am in no way close to being a millionaire.
__________________


And yes, you have made it clear that the character of the candidate is of no concern to you...but rather what the cult following of evangelicals are doing at the moment---are they supporting Perry---Cain---Newt---Santorum? Jump on board the lemming express!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

The bigger question is where does Rick make his money?

---

Yes, the idea behind the need to ask about all the tax returns is that it is important to know where I guy has made his money over the last few years?

Its not really any of our business as to what people do with their money, being thats a very personal issue and none of our business.

But knowing how a person has earned his money over the last 10 years or so is a very good thing to ask about of any person running for President.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

... I give well over ....

---

Im reminded of the story of the rich man who gave, and the poor widow,,,


The rich do get a lot of the headlines in this world when they give their millions to this or than cause.

But lets face the real facts as outlined by Jesus to us, and the FACT is = that the rich give out of their great abundance....

They dont get any credit with God for all this giving on their part,,,,because God already knows they do so out of their greater abundance...


Now as for a general rule about giving:
Giving is a personal decision that is between the person and their Lord.
It's none of my business that this or that forum member gives more that this or that other forum member....

The best thing to do is not to tell anyone what you give, (Let it be always done in secret).....and to not be concerned with how your giving looks to others, nor how their giving looks to you.

Dont let your right hand know what your left hand is doing....



Now this puts me at odds with many Christians and members of CULTS that seek to not just 'suggest" a target percent% is to be given, but they also belong to churches or CULTS that ask at times for proof.

To me there is no more clear sign that a person has joined a Christian church or non-Christian CULT that is far too preoccupied with money than when they ask you to bring in your income tax forms to check.
The moment you find yourself asked to bring in a tax form, or to automatically sign-over a percent of your income for the church in order to obtain some type of admission to higher church positions, or a secret church rite, or anything like that, you should pack up and get out of that church in a hurry.....

i knew a friend that was so proud that his church was a '***hing church"
He would point out that every member of the paid church leadership would give a min of 10% back to the church.

To me this was a moot point.
It's like, if you knew your wadges were going to be lowered by 10% you allow for this in what you are asking for at the start.

An example is:
That if the going rate of pay for a guy to cut the gr*** at the church is $10.00 an hour, and that you know its a requirement that you give back to the church $1 , then you can simply adjust for this by asking for $11.00 per hour,....

On paper , it works and everyone is happy.
But in real life is all just a joke that does not fool God...




Now as for Mitt's gift?

The other thing Im not impressed with at all are rich who are members of CULTS that require a paying of a ***he just to enter into positions within the CULT or to b e allowed to go to different CULT functions.

To me their giving is moot, as its giving to a known EVIL, and therefor is rejected by God, and in the eyes of the church.

So in other words....any donations to a CULT like the Mormon church is a moot point.
It's seen as spreading EVIL in God's eyes, and is looked on with disgust by His church...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And yes, you have made it clear .....

---

I hope I have made it clear that I do not hold the personal views on things like religion, or how rich or poor a guy is, or his color, or if he is married or not against a person when i vote.

I find the Mormonism of Mitt to be totally insulting to God, and a disgusting false , hopeless, faith that will in the end, condemn him and all other Mormons to an ever-burning HELL....

and If I considered that important to the office of President, then I would never vote for Mitt.


The same is true for the many wives and girlfriends of Newt...
I find much of their personal lives to be disgusting,,,yet not important when looking at who would make a good voice for my views in the White House.


Im very sure that the Mitt army of attack dogs will dig up some type of personal dirt on Rick soon....and My guess is that people will try to use that as a way to undercut support for him.

But I just dont look at who im going to vote for like that.

I dont care about the purely personal issues.
I could not care less what type of marriage the guy fixing my roof has...or what color he is, or if he is a Mormon or not...

All i care about is if he can fix my roof?



From my stand point, my views on this matter are the only correct ones, and are in-line with being a true Christian and free American.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Yes, the idea behind the need to ask about all the tax returns is that it is important to know where I guy has made his money over the last few years?

Its not really any of our business as to what people do with their money, being thats a very personal issue and none of our business.

But knowing how a person has earned his money over the last 10 years or so is a very good thing to ask about of any person running for President.

---

I have not seen any reports on how Rick has made his money--I have been told is through lobbying; not great--it means he left government only to make his money off of government.

[QUOTE=alanmolstad;116058]Im reminded of the story of the rich man who gave, and the poor widow,,,


The rich do get a lot of the headlines in this world when they give their millions to this or than cause.

But lets face the real facts as outlined by Jesus to us, and the FACT is = that the rich give out of their great abundance.... Yes, but what does it say about a person's heart if they have a lot of money and give very little---it is like the rich giving the widow's mite. And then that same person being willing to vote for a lot of your money being spent via the government as Rick did---that doesn't sit well with me.

Quote:

---

Now as for a general rule about giving:
Giving is a personal decision that is between the person and their Lord.
It's none of my business that this or that forum member gives more that this or that other forum member....

---

Actually, the insistence of the need to see our possible president's tax returns said that this is an important issue to donors.

Quote:

---

The best thing to do is not to tell anyone what you give, (Let it be always done in secret).....and to not be concerned with how your giving looks to others, nor how their giving looks to you.

Dont let your right hand know what your left hand is doing....

---

Yeah, yeah--and the person who donates to charity but does not take advantage of it on tax records so that he has less to give is just plain s.tupid.

Quote:

---

Now this puts me at odds with many Christians and members of CULTS that seek to not just 'suggest" a target percent% is to be given, but they also belong to churches or CULTS that ask at times for proof.

---

My church does not ask for proof. Whenever you say the word "cult" I am reminded it is the evangelicals that seem to be more lead on "who to vote for" by their leaders, than any Mormon is. By this definition--it appears that the only cult here is the one you perscribe to.

Quote:

---

To me there is no more clear sign that a person has joined a Christian church or non-Christian CULT that is far too preoccupied with money than when they ask you to bring in your income tax forms to check.
The moment you find yourself asked to bring in a tax form, or to automatically sign-over a percent of your income for the church in order to obtain some type of admission to higher church positions, or a secret church rite, or anything like that, you should pack up and get out of that church in a hurry.....

---

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I hope I have made it clear that I do not hold the personal views on things like religion, or how rich or poor a guy is, or his color, or if he is married or not against a person when i vote.

---

Actually, talking to you over the past few months have made it clear that you do hold things like religion against a person when you vote. This is quite transparent---or somewhere in your fleeing from one candidate to the next, Mitt would have been in there. THis was far too dangerous a position, though, as he has been the front-runner too many times IF you hold a person's religion against them.

Quote:

---

I find the Mormonism of Mitt to be totally insulting to God, and a disgusting false , hopeless, faith that will in the end, condemn him and all other Mormons to an ever-burning HELL....

---

Yes, I understand that when it comes to matters of the heart, your cult decides who offends God and who doesn't and deems who will go to hell and who won't based on the arbitrary way in which you read the Bible. My God looks to the heart of a man--yours look to the professed belief.

Quote:

---

All i care about is if he can fix my roof?

---

Yes, but the obvious thing in this election is that only Mitt Romney has the qualifications and experience of how to get our economy back on track---and if you say that you don't see our economy as a problem, then you are either uneducated to the realities of what happens when you over-regulate the finance sector, etc. or centralized health care, or you just don't care or are too i.gnorant to care. This is very frustrating to me that the evangelical right are voting out of emotion rather than brains on this issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

t means he left government....

---

I thought he lost an election and had to find a ***....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Actually, the insistence of the need to see our possible president's tax returns said that this is an important issue to donors.

---

why?
who says that?

as far as I know the public need for all tax returns is just concerned with where the person had been making money.

The idea is that we dont want to elect a person that has ties to the mob, or to running drugs, or other things against the law...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yeah, yeah--and the person who donates to charity but does not take advantage of it on tax records so that he has less to give is just plain s.tupid.

.

---

Thats between the person and their accountant...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

My church does not ask for proof. Whenever you say the word "cult"......

---

It's not only the world of the CULTS where the request to see a person's tax return is found.

In many good Christian churches you do find a clear over-interest in the money of other people...

My advice is to stay clear of such churches , as they tend to have other requirements that just take the mission of the church way, way off target.

[QUOTE=BigJulie;116063]

Quote:

---

Actually, talking to you over the past few months have made it clear that you do hold things like religion against a person when you vote..

---

Nope, you are completely wrong.

I look forward to voting for Mitt against Obama.

I have no issues in voting for Mitt, and I would vote for Mitt with a clear conscience against Obama right now.


However I would vote for Newt or Rick over Mitt any day of the week.

This is because Mitt is not a trustworthy voice of my views.
Mitt has shown by his past actions that he cant be trusted compared to Rick....

This is the reason Rick and Newt are still in the race.

The fact is that at the SC primary we learned that Mitt will never get the needed support from conservatives because of this clear lack of trustworthiness that he would need to get that support.

At best, Mitt will likely end up in the same pile of losers with Bob Dole and McCain who also were just bad at getting the conservative vote.

It has nothing to do with the religion of Mitt, or Dole or McCain.

The 3 guys just are not able to attract conservatives, nor even seem to understand the need to do so....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

.....and if you say that you don't see our economy as a problem, ....

---

I said that I dont see the economy being an issue in the next election.

I believe by then we will be reading about the "Obama Recovery"

This means that the liberal media will likely have taken the issue of the economy off the table, and that will leave them free to talk about the things Obama is strongest at....

talk of the open con grows stronger each day...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...81G1ZF20120217

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I thought he lost an election and had to find a ***....

---

by hanging around government and lobbying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

why?
who says that?

as far as I know the public need for all tax returns is just concerned with where the person had been making money.

The idea is that we dont want to elect a person that has ties to the mob, or to running drugs, or other things against the law...

---

Everyone who had a fit that Mitt wouldn't show his tax returns---it made it so all GOP candidates had to put theres out there.

Yeah, that's what we need---tax returns...that will show whether someone has ties to the mob...yeah, right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Thats between the person and their accountant...

---

Rick states he did his own taxes----you make more than a million a year and you do your own taxes---that is just plain s.tupid!!! Someone should have been teaching Rick a thing or two about money. What that told me is that I don't want him running things financiallly in this country--he doesn' t have a clue. I don't even do my own taxes and I make no where near that...but I am smart enough to know that there are few people that are worth the money---a good doctor, a good lawyer if needed, and a good accountant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

It's not only the world of the CULTS where the request to see a person's tax return is found.

In many good Christian churches you do find a clear over-interest in the money of other people...

My advice is to stay clear of such churches , as they tend to have other requirements that just take the mission of the church way, way off target.

---

My church never asks for a tax return. Where on earth do you come up with the ideas that you do. One of the things I like about my church is that my ***hes do not go to my direct leaders---therefore, there is no conflict of interest. My advice is to stay away from churches that your ***hes go into the pocket of your pastor---as this takes your church way off target.

[QUOTE=alanmolstad;116068]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Nope, you are completely wrong.

I look forward to voting for Mitt against Obama.

I have no issues in voting for Mitt, and I would vote for Mitt with a clear conscience against Obama right now.


However I would vote for Newt or Rick over Mitt any day of the week.

This is because Mitt is not a trustworthy voice of my views.
Mitt has shown by his past actions that he cant be trusted compared to Rick....

This is the reason Rick and Newt are still in the race.

The fact is that at the SC primary we learned that Mitt will never get the needed support from conservatives because of this clear lack of trustworthiness that he would need to get that support.

At best, Mitt will likely end up in the same pile of losers with Bob Dole and McCain who also were just bad at getting the conservative vote.

It has nothing to do with the religion of Mitt, or Dole or McCain.

The 3 guys just are not able to attract conservatives, nor even seem to understand the need to do so....

---

Mitt is not trustworthy precisely because he is mormon--when you excuse Newt for ethics violations, but then accuse Mitt because his stance on some issues have changed, you are clear in your biases--whether you see them or not.

After having taken a few economics cl***es, I clearly see Mitt as the best choice. He obviously understands why our economy is sinking and what needs to be done about it. I wish that everyone had to take a basic econ course before voting. Evangelicals emotional leanings and jumping from one candidate to the next show that the majority of them are not educated on such issues and have not had a clear cut idea of who to vote for until their "cult" leaders told them who to vote for.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...ff-for-romney/

The media is now pointing to Michigan as the State to watch.

It looks like suddenly that we have a State that might give us a result that will color the whole rest of the election.

we shall see....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Everyone who had a fit that Mitt wouldn't show his tax returns--.

---

Yes....it was a huge error on Mitt's part, and the results of that error in how he handled that question are still with us to this very day.

Had Mitt been more forthcoming with his income tax records chances are that he would still be sitting in the Number#1 spot in this election.


I think that when this election is all over and done with, that we will find that Mitt will write in his book that his "I dont know" answer during the debate was the result of his staff dropping the ball....and that he left the stage after that debate and had to kick some ****s with his staff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Rick states he did his own taxes....

---

If you remember his answer during the debate, he said that his tax returns were on his home PC and that he would go get them.

Then later the press did follow Rick on a short trip back home and he was able to get the tax returns.

I also would guess that before a guy, (actually anyone) lets the press see their private tax returns you would have to go over them to block out all the SS numbers, and Phone numbers....or any other stuff that they ask for on the IRS forms....

Im not sure if you have printed on the forms your checking account numbers?

But it likely has home address and stuff that a guy would not put out.


But in the end Rick did work on it and got it put out as he said he would...

this rise of Michigan into turning out to be such a key state for Mitt to win is a surprise to me.

Given it takes place before Super Tuesday you would think that Mitt and Rick would fighting it out in all the big Super Tuesday States...

But the thing important with Michigan is that of all the States in the country, Michigan is the best representation of the country as a whole.

The unemployment rate in Michigan is high, the trouble with the car industry is clearly connected to everyone in Michigan.

So it looks like what we are seeing is a test for the Republican voters as to what man do they think is going to be the best at fixing the economy?


I lot of supporters on Mitt always push the idea that Mitt is the best on the topic of fix this economy.

Well now we are going to put that to the test and see what the voters thing?....






Mitt has every advantage going into Michigan he would want.
He is from there...
His dad was a 3-term gov.
He has strong family connections there.
and the Mormon church is strong there.

So Mitt has every advantage going into this Michigan primary.


Rick on the other hand?
About all i can find in Rick's favor with the voters in Michigan is his stand on the social issues.


aside from that, what else does Rick got going for him in Michigan?