The Bible Does Not Prohibit Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You wrote something?

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Arguably so. :D

Q - So what does the Bible say about the eternal future of all the gays?....
A - that they will not enter into the Kingdom.


Q - What does that mean that they will not enter into the Kingdom?...
A - It means that will be gathered together before the Judgement seat of Christ, where they will be condemned...and tossed with Satan into the eternally burning Lake Of fire.


Q - So the Gays are tossed into the lake of Fire....but then what next?.....
A - there is no "what next?", there is no change in their eternal existence from that moment on.


Q - so the gays burn forever?
A - yes....and forever is a very, very long time.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Q - So what does the Bible say about the eternal future of all the gays?....
A - that they will not enter into the Kingdom.


Q - What does that mean that they will not enter into the Kingdom?...
A - It means that will be gathered together before the Judgement seat of Christ, where they will be condemned...and tossed with Satan into the eternally burning Lake Of fire.


Q - So the Gays are tossed into the lake of Fire....but then what next?.....
A - there is no "what next?", there is no change in their eternal existence from that moment on.


Q - so the gays burn forever?
A - yes....and forever is a very, very long time.

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A#1- Well, if they are unrepentant, although I think that's what we are talking about here.

A#2- Yeah

A#3- Okay

A#4- Just to make sure, we're talking about people who are unrepentant ****sexuals, and not just people who have strong same-sex urges right?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Q - So what does the Bible say about the eternal future of all the gays?....
A - that they will not enter into the Kingdom.

Q - What does that mean that they will not enter into the Kingdom?...
A - It means that will be gathered together before the Judgement seat of Christ, where they will be condemned...and tossed with Satan into the eternally burning Lake Of fire.

Q - So the Gays are tossed into the lake of Fire....but then what next?.....
A - there is no "what next?", there is no change in their eternal existence from that moment on.

Q - so the gays burn forever?
A - yes....and forever is a very, very long time.

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You make it painfully evident that you're not even trying to read and respond to my posts. You've got a script, and you're sticking to it.

You also continue to make it painfully evident that you don't know any gay people.

The truth will set you free.

Some people try to say that only gay "actions" condemn a person to hell...but our Lord was very clear at pointing out that even our inner most private thoughts condemn a person.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Some people try to say that only gay "actions" condemn a person to hell...but our Lord was very clear at pointing out that even our inner most private thoughts condemn a person.

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Considering what else is on Paul's "sin list" along with malakoi and ****nokoites, one might think you'd be more circumspect and less glib about condemning vast swathes of humanity to unending torture.

Or have you never stolen anything, been greedy or slandered or served an idol—even in your "inner most private thoughts"?

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Originally Posted by asdf

Considering what else is on Paul's "sin list" along with malakoi and ****nokoites, one might think you'd be more circumspect and less glib about condemning vast swathes of humanity to unending torture.

Or have you never stolen anything, been greedy or slandered or served an idol—even in your "inner most private thoughts"?

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The problem here is that you're answering your own question. God condemns ALL sin. Have you been greedy, slandering, served an idol, like admiring sports more than God?

If the answer is yes, then having ****sexual thoughts and mannerisms shouldn't be far behind what is condemned. What's easy to understand, or at least it should be, is that you can hate things God hates without hating people.

I love thieves. I love my enemies. I hate what they do.

Likewise, God directly loves ****sexuals while he despises ****sexuality, what ****sexuality does to them and how ugly it is. Bare in mind it's not just ugly because of what it does but what it represents. Man was made in the image of God, and ecspecially for believers, when someone turns away from how God made them, it not only makes God a liar but it corrupts his image.

However, I am well-aware that having same sex attraction doesn't make you a murderer, a violent person, or a particular despicable person. The problem with God and ****sexuality is not the degree of sinfulness, it's SIN it'self.

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Originally Posted by ActRaiser

The problem here is that you're answering your own question. God condemns ALL sin. Have you been greedy, slandering, served an idol, like admiring sports more than God?

If the answer is yes, then having ****sexual thoughts and mannerisms shouldn't be far behind what is condemned.

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My point is not the condemnation, it is the result of that condemnation. Alan seems to be so gleeful & glib in talking about unending, hellacious torment for gay people, based on [his understanding of] Paul's list, not realizing that by his own standard he condemns himself to the same.

"For with the measure with which you judge, you will be judged."
– Jesus of Nazareth

"Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in p***ing judgment on another you condemn yourself because you, the judge, are doing the very same things."
– Paul of Tarsus

Also, [I repeat myself] I disagree that "****sexual thoughts and mannerisms" are what is condemned by Paul as malakoi and ****nokoites.

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What's easy to understand, or at least it should be, is that you can hate things God hates without hating people.

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I grant that it's possible. But considering that the ones who "hate ****sexual sin" are also the ones who are fighting against all legal and civil protection for GLBT people, I do not think that theoretical possibility is applicable in this instance.

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Likewise, God directly loves ****sexuals while he despises ****sexuality, what ****sexuality does to them and how ugly it is. Bare in mind it's not just ugly because of what it does but what it represents. Man was made in the image of God, and ecspecially for believers, when someone turns away from how God made them, it not only makes God a liar but it corrupts his image.

However, I am well-aware that having same sex attraction doesn't make you a murderer, a violent person, or a particular despicable person. The problem with God and ****sexuality is not the degree of sinfulness, it's SIN it'self.

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I disagree that living an honest life; embracing love, confidence, and maturity; being true to oneself and to society; committing to meaningful love and relationship is "making God a liar", "turning away from how God made" one, or "sinful".

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Originally Posted by asdf

My point is not the condemnation, it is the result of that condemnation. Alan seems to be so gleeful & glib in talking about unending, hellacious torment for gay people, based on [his understanding of] Paul's list, not realizing that by his own standard he condemns himself to the same.

"For with the measure with which you judge, you will be judged."
– Jesus of Nazareth

"Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in p***ing judgment on another you condemn yourself because you, the judge, are doing the very same things."
– Paul of Tarsus

Also, [I repeat myself] I disagree that "****sexual thoughts and mannerisms" are what is condemned by Paul as malakoi and ****nokoites.



I grant that it's possible. But considering that the ones who "hate ****sexual sin" are also the ones who are fighting against all legal and civil protection for GLBT people, I do not think that theoretical possibility is applicable in this instance.



I disagree that living an honest life; embracing love, confidence, and maturity; being true to oneself and to society; committing to meaningful love and relationship is "making God a liar", "turning away from how God made" one, or "sinful".

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Then you disagree with God. While everything you've listed is good in and of themselves, nothing is adequate for spiritual growth without God, his word and his Son Jesus.

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Originally Posted by ActRaiser

Then you disagree with God.

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I disagree with you that I disagree with God.

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While everything you've listed is good in and of themselves, nothing is adequate for spiritual growth without God, his word and his Son Jesus.

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I believe that things that are good—things that are "good in and of themselves"—are in fact good. "Think on these things", "against such things there is no law", "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial", "everyone who loves is in God, for God is love".

Where there is love, where there is goodness & beauty & fidelity & shalom & perseverance & self-sacrifice & ... — that's where God is. That's what God smiles upon.

I'm not able to regard that as in any way inferior to my own relationship with my wife. I'm not able to regard that as something that is hated by a God who is good.

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I disagree with you that I disagree with God.

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I came here earlier today and almost typed those exact words, when I read our friend's post...but, decided not to insert myself in this conversation.

Wanted to tell you that I have enjoyed your posts on this subject, though. A breath of fresh air. Namaste'

the Bishop abandoned his wife and family...and entered into an evil and disgusting **** relationship.

He has led many down a dark path....

He will likely burn forever and ever in hell's fire....
I would be not upset by that eternal fate for him at all...

Is the Old Testament of any value to the Christian that is in Christ?

It's kinda like a 3rd grade teacher. ..important at one time in our history but once you are in 4th grade you have another teacher to listen to now that is better

So as Walter martin said We must read the Old Test in the light of the New

Does the Old Testament teach anything different than the New Testament when you take into consideration the context of the whole Bible?

the Old Testament teaches the Old Covenant, and as we read in the New Test if there was nothing wrong with the Old Covenant there would be no need for the New.

The New Wine can not fit in the Old Wine skins....

What scripture did Paul preach from?

John 6:68
"Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

We have to remember that Peter and Paul and the rest of the Disciples all were Jews and so they already had plenty of teachers of the Law.
They did not lack of instruction.

But they did not have life.

Life is found in the words of Christ.

This is why Paul tells us that he preached nothing except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
This is why the teachings of the Disciples were so radically different than the teachings of the Jews at the time.
For we are not just dealing with a new reason the Jews should kill a goat, or a new list of foods that cant be eaten, or a new way to wash our hands etc, etc,etc,
Had that been true then Jesus and the Disciples like Paul would have been accepted by the Jewish leaders as being "One of them"

But people came to Jesus to hear him because Jesus taught different than the Jewish teachers, for Jesus taught as one who had "authority".
This is why there is a Christian faith.

For Christians base their religion on the words of Christ, for they (The words of Christ) are held as being superior to all other teachings and words.
This also was the reason for 1 Corinthians 1:23
"but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

So if you want to actually know what the Disciples preached?...it was this. > "Christ crucified"

This also is why today I tell people that if you want to understand what we base the Christian religion on?, just think about all that could be removed from the world and yet still have enough to be a true Christian?....

For example: could you remove all the church buildings and still be Christian?....yes
Could you remove all the books found in the Old Testament and still be a Christian?....yes

So what is the one thing in this world that has to be true or the whole of the christian faith falls?.....The Resurrection of Christ from the dead.

So except for the Resurrection of Christ, all the rest of the things found in our religion could be taken away or proved to be false and it would not matter?.....yes


As long as the Resurrection of Christ is true, it and it alone is the only reason we are Christians....

Not only did you not come close to answering my question, you seem to be willing to toss out the Old Testament. Where do you find that the Old Testament is no longer valid for the Christian?

The question was, “What scripture did Paul preach from?” I was not asking about who Paul was preaching about.

Also, what scriptures were the people of Berea searching? (See Ac 17:11)

In John 5:39, what scriptures did Jesus want searched that testified of him?

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I answered my way..you answer your own

So what Im saying, (and have said above)is that there is a very good reason why we call our selves "Christians" and not "Old Testament Jews"

The Old Test taught the Jews the concept of the Old Covenant.
My thoughts on the Old Covenant are best summed up at Hebrews 8:7

That there is but one thing that makes us Christians, and its as I have talked about above.
This is why I'm a Christian.



But Im not interested in the unending debate between the Septuagint vs the Masoretic texts, nor have any time to be part of a"King James Only" , "Book of Enoch" .etc debates.

Your answer seems to be answering some different question. It does not answer what I have asked.

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So what Im saying, (and have said above)is that there is a very good reason why we call our selves "Christians" and not "Old Testament Jews"

The Old Test taught the Jews the concept of the Old Covenant.
My thoughts on the Old Covenant are best summed up at Hebrews 8:7

That there is but one thing that makes us Christians, and its as I have talked about above.
This is why I'm a Christian.

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You are still avoiding the questions that I have asked you. You seem to think that the Old Testament is for those of direct Hebrew ancestry. This is not true. The whole Bible is for all and any who read it and trust in Christ.

Let us try again:

What scripture did Paul preach from?

Also, what scriptures were the people of Berea searching? (See Ac 17:11)

In John 5:39, what scriptures did Jesus want searched that testified of him?

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

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But Im not interested in the unending debate between the Septuagint vs the Masoretic texts, nor have any time to be part of a"King James Only" , "Book of Enoch" .etc debates.

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No one is debating any of these books and texts. All that I am interested in is the Bible, in the English language. You can use any version that you wish. I use the King James because I like it. I do not claim that the KJV is the only Bible that is endorsed by God and I never will. So get your mind on the English Bible, what ever version you want and answer the questions that I have asked. If you are interested in the truth then be as direct in your answer as possible and support your response with scripture where ever possible.

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Originally Posted by Libby

Interesting interview with the Bishop Gene Robinson, first openly gay Bishop of the Episcopal Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFhyK...feature=colike

(Not sure why the Islamic sub***les)

Edit: Someone told me, it might be because someone has a "hit" out on him. He did say that he has received numerous death threats.. Very sad.

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and why would you listen to a ****sexual bishop who has a personal stake in the answer? the Bible does prohibit ****sexuality.