Because or for?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostWalter Martin believed in the faith alone theology.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

answer my question....

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Walter Martin preached faith alone theology--regardless of your question.

Regardless of what Walter Martin is recorded teaching?


just answer the question!



or.....


You cant?
You dont dare?
The facts seem to fly in the face or your views?
Are all in your religion so set in their views that facts no longer matter?


What you are is caught in a web ....

You know full well that you don't dare answer my question because the moment you do you show yourself to be telling untruths, and your whole argument falls like a house of cards.

The real reason is that you didn't know what you were talking about when you tried to make the off-hand comment about Walter Martin's teachings.
You unfortunately told these untruths about Martin to a guy who knows a few things about what Walter martin taught.... ;)

Perhaps your invented untruths have always worked before in the past when told to people that did not know what Walter taught?......Im guessing that is what happens around here.


It must come as a unwelcome surprise to be so openly shown to be totally in error to the point where you can't even answer a simple question about what appears on a recording.


so sad......

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Walter Martin preached faith alone theology--regardless of your question.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Regardless of what Walter Martin is recorded teaching?

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Walter Martin never denies he has a faith alone theology. He did. He was an ordained Baptist minister. Baptist have a faith alone theology.

Alan--I believe you are confusing Walter Martin's claim one is not saved by faith alone--with faith alone theology.

A faith alone theology does not state one is saved by faith alone. The faith alone believe they are saved by God's grace--through a faith without works.

Walter Martin never denies he had a faith alone theology.

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

so sad....you are trapped and dont dare answer my simple question about a recording?

Im going to need to start a topic about this matter...
Something about "The question a Mormon could not dare answer!"

and then have the recording to see if any Mormons can actually answer the question, or is this just you?

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...t-dare-answer!

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

answer my question....

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bump for the new guest....

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You might want to refer to the guest known as "The way" if you think that just because there are so few posts on this forum that it means I am bluffing....

I have provided recordings on the teachings on Walter martin...I have also posted on this topic of salvation more than enough for you to supported your wild claims had they not just been stuff you invented out of thin air.

misrepresenting Martin will get you trouble...

misrepresenting me will get expensive...

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If his posts upset you so much and cause you so much anger, you might want to put him on ignore. That can be a good solution to such problems, it has been suggested.

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Originally Posted by Phoenix

If his posts upset you so much and cause you so much anger, you might want to put him on ignore. That can be a good solution to such problems, it has been suggested.

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Yesterday I decided how I would respond to the different invented falsehoods.
I decided that I would simply keep pointing out their behavior as an example that - "You cant trust what they say" , and set up links to things/questions they refuse to answer.

So its actually going to be a nice little way to point out what they all are like as a religion.

As far as the IGNORE LIST goes?
Yes, Its on the table,
And, I can always put people on IGNORE later if I think its needed....

So far that has really only happened for the truly most poorly mannered three people who have 'blessed' this forum with their posts.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Walter Martin never denies he has a faith alone theology. He did. He was an ordained Baptist minister. Baptist have a faith alone theology.

Alan--I believe you are confusing Walter Martin's claim one is not saved by faith alone--with faith alone theology.

A faith alone theology does not state one is saved by faith alone. The faith alone believe they are saved by God's grace--through a faith without works.

Walter Martin never denies he had a faith alone theology.

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Yesterday I decided how I would respond to the different invented falsehoods.

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You haven't shown any falsehoods. Walter Martin was a faith alone theology adherent. The faith alone have a theology of salvation by grace through a faith without works.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also historically known as the doctrine of justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, and some in the Restoration Movement.

The doctrine of sola fide or "by faith alone" ***erts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith, conceived as excluding all "works," alone.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Regardless of what Walter Martin is recorded teaching?


just answer the question!



or.....


You cant?
You dont dare?
The facts seem to fly in the face or your views?
Are all in your religion so set in their views that facts no longer matter?


What you are is caught in a web ....

You know full well that you don't dare answer my question because the moment you do you show yourself to be telling untruths, and your whole argument falls like a house of cards.

The real reason is that you didn't know what you were talking about when you tried to make the off-hand comment about Walter Martin's teachings.
You unfortunately told these untruths about Martin to a guy who knows a few things about what Walter martin taught.... ;)

Perhaps your invented untruths have always worked before in the past when told to people that did not know what Walter taught?......Im guessing that is what happens around here.


It must come as a unwelcome surprise to be so openly shown to be totally in error to the point where you can't even answer a simple question about what appears on a recording.


so sad......

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oh they love to post a lot of reasons why they "can't answer my question....LOL
Or, perhaps they think they don't need to answer my question?...well, that is true in a way as I can't force anyone to face the music as it were...
(I mean you can lead a horse to water...)

But I can point this out as being very "representative" of their religion, as well as the effect their religion has had on them.

For really, I don't actually think that the people that join the Mormon church are like this when they join, but it does seem to be something that "happens" to people once they adopt the Mormon-way of thinking that they need to defend the "teachings" of Smith even over what they can see for themselves to be the truth in the Scriptures.....
(or in this case hear for themselves on a recording of Walter Martin.)

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...t-dare-answer!

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I have started another topic on this forum, an on it I will be posting some back-and-forth dialog there upcoming, and going over how what seems like an easy question for a Christian to answer actually turns out to be so very difficult for a Mormon to even look at answering...

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

You haven't shown any falsehoods. Walter Martin was a faith alone theology adherent. The faith alone have a theology of salvation by grace through a faith without works.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also historically known as the doctrine of justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, and some in the Restoration Movement.

The doctrine of sola fide or "by faith alone" ***erts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith, conceived as excluding all "works," alone.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

oh they love to post a lot of reasons why they "can't answer my question....LOL
Or, perhaps they think they don't need to answer my question?...well, that is true in a way as I can't force anyone to face the music as it were...
(I mean you can lead a horse to water...)

But I can point this out as being very "representative" of their religion, as well as the effect their religion has had on them.

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What has Walter Martin being of the faith alone theology to do with what you believe about Mormons?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

answer my question....

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Still...unanswered

Typical




As for what I believe about Mormonism?...
What I have learned about Mormonism is what I see shown me about it in the actions of the Mormons I run into here...on this forum.

For I can tell you that just within the last week or so I have had new insight into just what a confused lot they are, and how empty Mormonism must be of truth that it's mighty representatives would need to rely on such deceptions and inventions to maintain "the dogma" of Smith.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Still...unanswered

Typical

As for what I believe about Mormonism?...
What I have learned about Mormonism is what I see shown me about it in the actions of the Mormons I run into here...on this forum.

For I can tell you that just within the last week or so I have had new insight into just what a confused lot they are, and how empty Mormonism must be of truth that it's mighty representatives would need to rely on such deceptions and inventions to maintain "the dogma" of Smith.

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Again--what has your take on Mormons--or "the dogma of Smith" got to do with the fact Walter Martin was of the faith alone theology?

Still refuse to answer eh?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Still refuse to answer eh?

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Bump.......

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Bump.......

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Bump the bump

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Still refuse to answer eh?

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Our Beliefs --Christian Research Ins***ute
http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal subs***utionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

Again, Alan--Walter Martin preached a faith alone theology--which states one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. IOW--dead faith saves, in the faith alone theology:

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Lots of words ..

No answer yet to my question is all I see however.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Lots of words ..No answer yet to my question is all I see however.

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Denial is not an option one can choose in the face of the facts presented:

Our Beliefs --Christian Research Ins***ute----http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal subs***utionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

Again, Alan--Walter Martin preached a faith alone theology--which states one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. IOW--dead faith saves, in the faith alone theology:

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Taint so!!! arguments are neither convincing nor compelling. Please answer to the facts presented above.

Perhaps I may need to post the video again as well as the question so that any new guests understand where the funny part of the lack of an answer is found at?

One moment and I shall post both the video, as well as then post the question that seems .....um...just out of reach of a Mormon to answer?....(something like that anyway)

Now in a moment I will be posting a video where Walter Martin answers a question about how all men are saved.
I would ask you to pay special attention to the answer that Walter is giving at around the :30 second point of the video.

Walter says, "First of all, Salvation isn't by_____"


What is the word that Walter says there?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now in a moment I will be posting a video where Walter Martin answers a question about how all men are saved.
I would ask you to pay special attention to the answer that Walter is giving at around the :30 second point of the video.

Walter says, "First of all, Salvation isn't by_____"


What is the word that Walter says there?

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You are in denial, Alan. That Walter Martin did not believe one is saved by faith alone does nothing to deny Mr Martin did not have a faith alone theology. He did:

Our Beliefs --Christian Research Ins***ute----http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal subs***utionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

What is the word that Walter says there?

You can run away all you want from the question....but the moment you turn around its still going to be there,
haunting you....

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You can run away all you want from the question....but the moment you turn around its still going to be there,
haunting you....

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Maybe it's time you faced the reality of Walter Martin's theology:

Our Beliefs --Christian Research Ins***ute----http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal subs***utionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

What is there about that you disagree with? Your Taint so!!! responses don't touch your problem--nor your point. No one is arguing that Walter Martin did not believe one is saved by faith alone. Faith alone adherents do not believe that. They profess one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. That is faith alone theology.

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now in a moment I will be posting a video where Walter Martin answers a question about how all men are saved.

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He really believed that all men are saved? Isn't that the heresy of universalism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M


Here is the video where Walter Martin answers the question about how men are saved.
the important moment comes at :30 sec of the video.

Notice: Walter says, "First of all, Salvation isn't by..._____"


What is the word that Walter says there? "________" ?

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Originally Posted by Phoenix

He really believed ...?

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1 Tim. 2:3-4

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

1 Tim. 2:3-4

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You know... It appears you don't have a answer for anything.
All you have done so far is post videos, scripture without an explanation, quotes from other people, questions, pla***udes, and lists.

Do you even have a belief of your own, or take a personal stand on anything?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

1 Tim. 2:3-4

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"God wants all people to be saved" does not mean the same thing as "God saves everyone."

I'm happy you figured that out

Did you mean what you said?

"...Walter Martin answers a question about how all men are saved."

Do you there is a different way?

if you know of a different way?... you let me know ok?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

You are in denial, Alan.......

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Actually I believe that you go on and on and say a lot of things.....well, you say a lot of things EXCEPT for saying the word you hear Walter Martin say when he tells us how we are saved...

Oh that one word seems to be the one word in all creation that you seem to have trouble saying..?

But the question I have asked of you will not go away....I will post it again so that everyone can see the one question it seems that a Mormon cant answer....




:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M



The question that a Mormon cant seem to dare to answer , is dealing with someting Walter martin says at the :30 second point of the video.

If you are just new to this conversation, please have a look at the video near the :30 second part and if you would like to know what the Question is that so troubles a Mormon, just send me a private message

I will be happy to talk to you about what it is...

(I will be posting the question here, but later when I have more free time)

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M



The question that a Mormon cant seem to dare to answer , is dealing with someting Walter martin says at the :30 second point of the video.

If you are just new to this conversation, please have a look at the video near the :30 second part and if you would like to know what the Question is that so troubles a Mormon, just send me a private message

I will be happy to talk to you about what it is...

(I will be posting the question here, but later when I have more free time)

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bump..........

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Actually I believe that you go on and on and say a lot of things.....well, you say a lot of things EXCEPT for saying the word you hear Walter Martin say when he tells us how we are saved...

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Alan--you still have not addressed how you are relating what Walter Martin states--with the fact Walter Martin was of the faith alone theology. I'm not arguing what you believe Walter Martin stated in the video--only that, in no way, touches upon the fact Walter Martin held the faith alone theology.

Oh you misunderstand...I have no intention of going to another point in my posts until .......we get to the bottom of what Walter Martin says salvation is not by _____ only.

If on the chance someone does not know what Im pointing to, then I think I should post the video again, along with the question about what is heard on the video that has yet to be answered....

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

There is this other recording of Walter addressing this very say issue.
This recording is very old, it goes back to when Walter was still making a name for himself in the ministry outreach to the CULTS.

I will even show you where to drag the computer mouse too so you can hear word for word what im going to be quoting , so you can make sure Im being honest and faithful to Walter's words.

Now look at 1:28:00
Its very near the ending of this video.

Notice that the JW that Walter is debating asks if we are saved By "Faith and works?"
Walter says "NO!"

Then notice the JW says "You are saved by Faith?...Just plain old faith?. Just say you believe?
Walter answers "NO! You are saved by Grace!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gufxYe1OhWs



....its getting to the point where Im going to move on to other topics.

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Here we have the JW clearly mouth the normal "Faith Alone" argument.
If you listen, you hear the JW ask if salvation is by faith alone?...just say you believe?. just faith? etc.

Now if Walter Martin ever had a good opportunity to answer this question this was it!





So what does Walter martin say when asked if we are saved by Faith alone?.....


He says "NO!"