Should the members of the cult of Calvinism repent before calling Mormons a cult?

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

What of all that surrounds this verse by some 1,500 pages. The words of Christ, "I was lifted up that I might draw all men unto me. "All" has only one meaning.

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Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

PaPa can you tell me what verse 30 means?

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

If we cannot choose, then you are back to irresitable Grace and God as the puppet master.

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Who says that we don't choose? We ALL make choices everyday.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Who says that we don't choose? We ALL make choices everyday.

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Please don't trivialize and try to compare what we buy at a store and equate it with choosing salvation. I ***ume you want to be taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

What of all that surrounds this verse by some 1,500 pages. The words of Christ, "I was lifted up that I might draw all men unto me. "All" has only one meaning.

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Luke 2:1 And it came to p*** in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL the world should be taxed.

Was ALL of the world taxed? ALL means ALL right?

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

So Baptists lack a full understanding of the Bible according to Calvinists...also I know a number of Baptists who believe all five points.

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Some Baptists believe all 5 points and some do not. BTW some people who attend "Baptist" churches and call themselves "Baptist" do not even believe in God. You are coming from the LDS point of view where you believe that a church somehow saves you.

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Please don't trivialize and try to compare what we buy at a store and equate it with choosing salvation. I ***ume you want to be taken seriously.

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Who said that I am trivializing this? People make choices and the choice to reject Christ is a choice that people make. Nobody is forced to reject Christ.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Luke 2:1 And it came to p*** in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL the world should be taxed.

Was ALL of the world taxed? ALL means ALL right?

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If "All have sinned" means every single human being, including aborted fetuses and babies who die at 2 days after birth, has sinned, then yeah, "all the world" must mean every human on the planet, of every age and in every location, was taxed by Caesar. Right?

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

If "All have sinned" means every single human being, including aborted fetuses and babies who die at 2 days after birth, has sinned, then yeah, "all the world" must mean every human on the planet, of every age and in every location, was taxed by Caesar. Right?

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That is what I believe.. Just being human makes a person a sinner.. It isn't what we do it is what we are.. All does mean ALL.. You know that there is a difference between what a man commands (there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus), and the message of God to man (ALL HAVE SINNED).. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

If "All have sinned" means every single human being, including aborted fetuses and babies who die at 2 days after birth, has sinned, then yeah, "all the world" must mean every human on the planet, of every age and in every location, was taxed by Caesar. Right?

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So your position is that some sin and some do not sin?

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Knowing the outcome of the game, does not mean you are directing the players beforehand. If we cannot choose, then you are back to irresitable Grace and God as the puppet master.

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There is the catch 22. You can't know the outcome unless you know how the players will play.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

So your position is that some sin and some do not sin?

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My position is the same as the official LDS position. Since you used to be a TBM and RM and seminary grad, you know what the the official LDS position is. Right?

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

My position is the same as the official LDS position. Since you used to be a TBM and RM and seminary grad, you know what the the official LDS position is. Right?

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So your position is that some do not ever sin. Right?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

So your position is that some do not ever sin. Right?

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If that is his belief then again it shows a total disregard for the scripture.. It's not "most sin and fall short of the glory of God," it that "ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God".. I don't see Jeff responding to your question, Ever.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by Pa Pa

I have never meet an anti-Mormon who was not a member of the cult of Calvinism, and I have met and debated many for my years...about 20 years now.

Many have accused Mormons of elitism because they say only some can be saved. When the core of Calvinism is that they alone are chosen and everyone else is ****ed to hell. Where is your integrity?

Should you not repent of Hersey before pointing the finger at others for the same.

I am a minister in my Church, I am obligated to call you to repentance. Also not allow you to quote scripture out of context to justify this position and try to call others into your cult.

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Well, then you should meet my pastor who is Arminian! And very outspoken about Mormonism being cultic. Also, on CARM's Mormon site there is at least one Arminian pastor who posts, and a Lutheran (also Arminian). Actually, among Baptists you'll find a combination of Reformed (Calvinist) and Arminian viewpoints. Most Baptists, for instance, do not hold to election in the same way that a Reformed Presybterian might, although the Baptists do hold to the perseverance of the saints. I'm afraid that Calvinism has become sort of a boogey man in Mormonism since the time of Smith's "first vision," when he supposedly went home and the first thing out of his mouth was, "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." Recall that Lucy Mack Smith and the rest of the kids were attending a Presbyterian Church at the time while young Joseph and his father stayed home. This caused quite a problem in the Smith family, and Smith's "vision," in which God supposedly told him all Christian creeds were an abomination pretty much solved that problem for them, didn't it?

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Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

My position is the same as the official LDS position. Since you used to be a TBM and RM and seminary grad, you know what the the official LDS position is. Right?

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Good grief, Jeff, all those abbreviations. How about this: BITLJCABS?

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Originally Posted by Apologette

Good grief, Jeff, all those abbreviations. How about this: BITLJCABS?

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Bit Little J Cabs? hehehehe IHS jim