What are the requirements to be a Christian?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

So faith in Christ is not enough to make me a Christian? I understand that you don't believe that. What else is required?

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Once again...Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Maybe you need to answer what "faith in Christ" is first.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, Billyray--you need to obey the commandments to be a Christian--according to your understanding of Matt 7:21. You understanding of "doing the will of the Father" must be the same as "obedience to the commandments...if that right?

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I am trying to get you to tell me the requirements and you are not being very clear with me. Please just be honest and give me the requirements. Fair enough?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

I am trying to get you to tell me the requirements and you are not being very clear with me. Please just be honest and give me the requirements. Fair enough?

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Billyray--only God can give you the requirements and to think you can get them from me is futile. This really is between you and God. I tell you what Christ tells me--that you need to do the will of the Father. The very fact that you think you need some type of laundry list from me convinces me you have yet to figure this out with God. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Maybe you need to answer what "faith in Christ" is first.

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Putting complete trust in Christ that he will save me from sins.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Putting complete trust in Christ that he will save me from sins.

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And what does this look like to you? Does it mean that you follow the Spirit also known as doing the will of the Father?

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray--only God can give you the requirements and to think you can get them from me is futile.

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He has given the requirements. Those who place their faith in Christ and are born again are Christians.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

And what does this look like to you?

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It looks like someone who puts their complete trust in Christ for their salvation.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

It looks like someone who puts their complete trust in Christ for their salvation.

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And would that be someone who follows the spirit and does the will of the Father? (Or do they do their own thing and not worry about following the spirit and doing the will of the Father-rather trusting in what they want to do and what they think will work? :))

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

And would that be someone who follows the spirit and does the will of the Father? (Or do they do their own thing and not worry about following the spirit and doing the will of the Father-rather trusting in what they want to do and what they think will work?

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Because Christians are regenerated they have a naturally desire to follow God.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am not convinced that you have been "regenerated".

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Now we are starting to get somewhere.

How does a person become regenerated or born again?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Because Christians are regenerated they have a naturally desire to follow God.

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And what does it look like when someone follows God?

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

And what does it look like when someone follows God?

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Each person looks a little bit different. Some are very Godly and some are not so Godly such as the thief on the cross. Both equally saved and both Christian.

How does a person become regenerated or born again?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Each person looks a little bit different. Some are very Godly and some are not so Godly such as the thief on the cross. Both equally saved and both Christian.

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How you can tell if someone is "regenerated" or not if they all look so different? (Would the thief on the cross have looked more similar to other--can I say, regenerates--if he had more time off the cross?)

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Originally Posted by Billyray

How does a person become regenerated or born again?

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Oh, we are back to this discussion. I saw in one of your last posts that you believe NOW that either faith first and then regenerate or others can be regenerate first and then faith. Which is it? Or do you, does it not matter.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

How you can tell if someone is "regenerated" or not if they all look so different?

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As an outsider looking in you and I can't know for sure who is regenerated or who is unregenerate. Only God knows for sure. There will be wheat and tares sitting next to each other in church each Sunday, and they may superficially look quite similar. However it is true that a person who is regenerated will become more and more Christ like over time a process that is called sanctification. But each Christian starts out at his own starting point and that starting point might look quite un Christian to those critical of outward appearances like you.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

As an outsider looking in you and I can't know for sure who is regenerated or who is unregenerate. Only God knows for sure. There will be wheat and tares sitting next to each other in church each Sunday, and they may superficially look quite similar. However it is true that a person who is regenerated will become more and more Christ like over time a process that is called sanctification. But each Christian starts out at his own starting point and that starting point might look quite un Christian to those critical of outward appearances like you.

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Good, I guess that is my point, you don't seem to resemble Christ to me in the way you post. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Oh, we are back to this discussion. I saw in one of your last posts that you believe NOW that either faith first and then regenerate or others can be regenerate first and then faith. Which is it? Or do you, does it not matter.

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You know exactly what I believe. A person is regenerated first which then leads to faith in Christ. Erik etc. believe faith precedes regeneration. We had a entire thread about this so I am sure you remember. Now can you answer my question?

BigJ how does a person become regenerated or born again?

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Good, I guess that is my point, you don't seem to resemble Christ to me in the way you post. Sorry.

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You don't think that I am a Christian and I know that you are not a Christian. So now that we have got that out of the way maybe we can discuss the issues. OK?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

You know exactly what I believe. A person is regenerated first which then leads to faith in Christ. Erik etc. believe faith precedes regeneration. We had a entire thread about this so I am sure you remember. Now can you answer my question?

BigJ how does a person become regenerated or born again?

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"You know exactly what I believe." Your politeness leads me to believe you are not regenerate because, as you said, you don't resemble Christ. I just can't picture Him saying that to me when I ask Him a question. ;)

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Originally Posted by Billyray

You don't think that I am a Christian and I know that you are not a Christian. So now that we have got that out of the way maybe we can discuss the issues. OK?

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And because you "know" and because I know for sure that you are not "God"---once again, another example of someone who does not resemble Christ. ;)

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

And because you "know"

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Ready to talk about the issues BigJ?

How do you become regenerated or born again?

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

you are not regenerate

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I know that you believe that I am regenerated just like you know that I believe you are not Christian. Now we have got that under our belt again let's discuss regeneration.

How do you become born again?

We are "Christians" only because of the resurrection.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Oh, we are back to this discussion. I saw in one of your last posts that you believe NOW that either faith first and then regenerate or others can be regenerate first and then faith. Which is it? Or do you, does it not matter.

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Regeneration means that one has been born again or born from above (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8). Conversion occurs when sinners turn to God in repentance and faith for salvation. Sinners are converted when they repent of their sins and turn to faith in Jesus Christ, trusting in him for the forgiveness of their sins.

Calvinists believe that a man is regenerated or has eternal life before he repents or believes. This is not Biblical.

Regeneration does not precede faith.

John 20:31 .that BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name. --

John 3:36 he that BELIEVETH NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE .

1 Tim. 1:16 . to them which should hereafter BELIEVE on him TO LIFE everlasting. --



Regeneration or being born again means that a sinner, dead in tresp***es and sins, becomes alive spiritually as a child of God. The Scriptures are clear that faith or belief precedes spiritual rebirth or regeneration.This is contrary to those, who believe the elect is regenerated BEFORE faith.



REPENT ye therefore, and BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS may be blotted out. Acts 3:19

Through his name whosoever BELIEVETH in him SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS. Acts 10:43

They should REPENT and TURN TO GOD, and do works meet for repentance. Acts 26:20

Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance UNTO LIFE . Acts 11:18

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

Regeneration means that one has been born again or born from above (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8). Conversion occurs when sinners turn to God in repentance and faith for salvation. . . Calvinists believe that a man is regenerated or has eternal life before he repents or believes. This is not Biblical.

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Sword you have your facts wrong. We both believe that we are justified AFTER conversion which is faith and repentance. However I do agree with you in that regeneration is being spiritually born and conversion is repentance and faith. We just differ on the order that regeneration and conversion take place.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is
1) election
2) predestination
3) gospel call
4) inward call
5) regeneration
6) conversion (faith & repentance)
7) justification
8) sanctification
9) glorification

Arminian camp, the ordo salutis is
1) outward call
2) faith/election
3) repentance
4) regeneration
5) justification
6) perseverance
7) glorification

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source monergism.com

delete personal comment

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

I thought you both claim to be Christians. If you believe in the Bible then you should have no problem agreeing instantly right?

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On this point we disagree.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

Regeneration does not precede faith.

John 20:31 .that BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name. --

John 3:36 he that BELIEVETH NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE .

1 Tim. 1:16 . to them which should hereafter BELIEVE on him TO LIFE everlasting. --

REPENT ye therefore, and BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS may be blotted out. Acts 3:19

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Notice that your verses are speaking of conversion which is repentance and faith. We both believe that repentance and faith (conversion) precedes justification.

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

Now do you see the problem?

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I absolutely see the problem. Both of us can't be right.

But this doesn't really help your case because our beliefs are very close and yours are miles apart. LDS beliefs are not consistent with what the Bible teaches.

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

. Our beliefs are consistent with the Bible . . .

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Nope they most certainly not. I was Mormon so don't try and buffalo me.

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

I'm not the one with the problem. You and Sword disagree so you two are with the problem. Our beliefs are consistent with the Bible while you and Sword can't decide what to believe.

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Strange you would say that....Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Satan are brothers, yet the Bible tells us that Jesus created Satan, so your beliefs are not consistent with the Bible and this is just one of a plethora of Mormonism's inconsistencies with the Bible.

Andy

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

Yea, they do.

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Do you believe that God is married?

Do you believe that God the Father became a God?

Do you believe that God the Father was once a man?

Do you believe in polytheism?

Do you believe that the NT members held the Melchizekek priesthood?

I could go on but you get my point.

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

I'm not the one with the problem. You and Sword disagree so you two are with the problem. Our beliefs are consistent with the Bible while you and Sword can't decide what to believe.

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BibleChristian, I agree with you and agree that our beliefs are consistent with the Bible. :)

I am curious if Billyray's description of a "Christian" or the Swords or even Alan's would include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Moses, Joshua, etc. as "Christians"? Maybe my definiiton is too broad for them---someone who follows the Spirit. I mean, as Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible--there would be no "Bible" to agree or disagree about for most of these men.

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Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Strange you would say that....Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Satan are brothers, yet the Bible tells us that Jesus created Satan, so your beliefs are not consistent with the Bible and this is just one of a plethora of Mormonism's inconsistencies with the Bible.

Andy

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No, it is consistent with Bible teachings. God does a lot of teaching by symbollism. Why do you think the story of Cain and Abel is included in the Bible as important? Why was Abel's sacrifice accepted and why was Cain's not? Why did Cain kill Abel? It is there Andy.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

BibleChristian, I agree with you and agree that our beliefs are consistent with the Bible.

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BigJ proclaims it therefore it is.

BigJ how do you become born again?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ proclaims it therefore it is.

BigJ how do you become born again?

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Why ask me when you have yet to work this out with your "Christian" friends? :) (Especially in light of the ***le of this thread and it is your definition that one must be born again to be Christian--not mine.)

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

Billyray
Do you believe that God is married?

biblicalchristian
No. This was Orson Hyde's personal belief.

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Really? So you don't believe that you have a mother in heaven?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Really? So you don't believe that you have a mother in heaven?

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Oh, we have gone in circles about this so many times. We have discussion, and we have logical reasoning, but we have no revelation regarding this.

Billyray, I thought you started this thread to talk about "requirements to be a Christian". What happened? Why the divergence?

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Originally Posted by biblicalchristian

Billyray
Do you believe that God the Father became a God?

Biblicalchristian
Early Christianity certainly taught this.

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So I take that as a yes. Do you have any support from the scripture that God was once a man?

(BTW I don't take my theology from extra Biblical sources even though these sources can be useful and edifying)