This just in...

Evolution.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

Evolution.

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I'm not sure if you think you are being clever or what?

But I will just point out to all reading this that no one seems to dare ask me to back up anything I have said the bible teaches....

I believe the reason is that people are starting to catch on.....ALAN CAN BACK EVERYTHING HE SAYS!!!!!



It must be a bit frustrating for some to find that the bible simple does not teach YEC like they were always told it did....

There is no verses in the Bible that supports evolution. If there is show it to me and back it up.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

There is no verses in the Bible that supports evolution. If there is show it to me and back it up.

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as I have said, the teachings of Genesis work within the teachings of evolution,in that within both teachings we see that all is traced back to the very same starting point...the same source in finally arrived at within both teachings.


God did not simply "pop" life into being....
God did not wave a magic stick and "Shazam!"...life was all over fully formed.

Rather the Bible tells us very clearly that God commanded "The Earth" to bring forth life.....

( see Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature")


The EARTH.......THE EARTH brought forth life!!!!!!

and in The Bible tells us that when we die we RETURN to the earth.
Not just "go to the earth"....But God was very clear when he told us that when we die we "RETURN" to the earth.
For the earth is our final source.
That is where we are from.

(see Genesis 3:19 until you return to the ground,since from it you were taken")


this is why when we die we are not said to "return to nothingness"...
And that is key to understand for a lot of people trapped in YEC teachings dont have a clue about what the Bible actually says we are from.

They keep telling me, "But Alan, man was made in the image of God", and that we are not from the same common source as all the animals (like the great apes)

But the Bible tells us we are just the same as the great apes , and the other animals, in that both humans and the animals stem from the same single common source.



This is as we can understand what Evolution teaches as well.




So while the Bible does not teach evolution, you do see how the two teachings do walk hand in hand to offer the student a very well-rounded understanding of early earth history...









How about the evolution of stars?
Does the story in genesis fit within what science teaches about the evolution of stars?



Now many YEC teaches believe that god created the light from stars in a different way that science teaches...
They say that god created the light 'in transit"....

This is how they get out of the painted corner of there being light coming from stars millions of light years away.
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I believe all that YEC **** about light created "in transit" is a lie.


I believe the light we see fits within the teachings of science and genesis just fine, and that there is no need to make the light 'magic' just to understand how it got here from millions of years ago.

This is because I have God creating the stars like our own sun right at the start of the story.
this means I dont need a fancy 'source-less' light that has conveniently disappeared ....

My source of light is the same sun we see today.

Nothing is magic
nothing needs to rely on magic....









So it comes down to this:
The YEC teachers believe that the first thing God created was "light"
I believe the first thing the Bible tells us god created was the "Heavens"

Who is right?

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as I have said, the teachings of Genesis work within the teachings of evolution,in that within both teachings we see that all is traced back to the very same starting point...the same source in finally arrived at within both teachings.

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You have said that, but you have not shown that evolution is compatible with the creation text.

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God did not simply "pop" life into being....
God did not wave a magic stick and "Shazam!"...life was all over fully formed.

ather the Bible tells us very clearly that God commanded "The Earth" to bring forth life.....


The EARTH.......THE EARTH brought forth life!!!!!!

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You are totally wrong. God did “pop" life into being. Genesis 1:21 states that God created whales, and every living creature; not a single cell creature. Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps upon the earth after his kind. Genesis 1:27 states God created man in his own image. There is nowhere in the text that even suggests that God did not “pop” life into being. Read the text, God created everything as it now is by intelligent design, not some primeval soup that everything slithered out of by chance as evolution would have you believe.

The earth brought forth life as the living plants and creatures multiplied after their own kind.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

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this is why when we die we are not said to "return to nothingness"...
And that is key to understand for a lot of people trappedin YEC teachings dont have a clue about what the Bible actually says we are from.

They keep telling me, "But Alan, man was made in the image of God", and that we are not from the same common source as all the animals (like the great apes)

But the Bible tells us we are just the same as the great apes , and the other animals, in that both humans and the animals stem from the same single common source.

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We are all from the common source; God. God is the architect that designed and made everything that is the earth and upon the earth, not to forget the entire universe. The text clearly states that God created each plant and creature as it is. Show me otherwise from Genesis 1:20 to 28.

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This is as we can understand what Evolution teaches as well.

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Evolution teaches a come-by-chance appearance of everything and nothing of God.

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So while the Bible does not teach evolution, you do see how the two teachings do walk hand in hand to offer the student a very well-rounded understanding of early earth history...

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The two teachings are polar opposites and do not walk hand in hand in any way, shape or form. The only statement that you have correct is that the Bible does not teach evolution. Evolution does not teach Bible either.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

You are totally wrong. God did “pop" life into being.

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nope Im not wrong at all...

...man was "formed"...

we are not in the original state,
we did not 'pop" into being, but rather we are a process.

(see Genesis 2 :7 "Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground"

I believe even the word "Adam" is related to the word "ground' in the Bible...that means that we are actually named after what we truly are...."the ground of this earth!"





So Mankind is not just something that popped into being but rather we see in the Text that we are the result of God's careful handiwork.


But what about the animals?
If I am correct in teaching that God "formed" the man and that this word 'formed" tells us that we are the result of careful handiwork and a process, and if Im correct that we share this fact with the animals kingdom too, then I should be able to prove that animals also are spoken of in the Bible to be also be the result of a process....also the result of being "formed' and not simply the result of a magic wand being waved and 'pop" there was a deer.....LOL


and low and behold there is a verse that talks about how animals came to be on the earth!
...Genesis 2:19 " Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals"










the YEC teachers would have us believe that God created life out of "nothingness"

I teach that God used what was, and changed it to be what he had in his designs.
God used raw materials to build his vision of life.



Now evolution is centered around the idea of "change"
One thing becomes another.
and in the bible we see this talked about as well.

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Originally Posted by disciple

Ok Alan, so how about a straight answer. Do you believe humans evolved from apes or not?

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Sound of crickets....
Jeopardy theme music...
Loud sighs...
ticking clock sounds...:)

See post 249

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

See post 249

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Post 249 does not answer my question and as I don't wish to be at odds with you, if you don't wish to answer yes or no I will drop it.

I teach what I believe
I believe what I can prove.

You can read any of my posts and clearly see that I teach that YEC is a lie.
I teach ideas that are totally against YEC.
I ideas that I can support with the bible.

I find that no one that tries to argue against me will rely on the bible for support.

I also find when they face the fact that I can defend all of my posts with the bible that it is then tthat any frustrated YEC believers will try to make this "personal"

They may try to change the topic away from what the Bible says and more about what I'm about...

I don't play tthat game.

Ask me for a verse to support my teachings......



the YEC teacher says LIGHT was the first thing created. ...II say it's the heavens. .....who is right?

Formed has many synonyms, shaped, bent, twisted, created and produced being a few. Your use of the term form changes nothing. God still did a direct creation of all that he created, or formed, for you. There is no evidence of any change in the creation text. It is all in your imagination.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

Formed has many synonyms, ............ Your use of the term form changes nothing.......

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my use?

MY USE ??? !!!

God's Holy Bible used the term - "formed".....


I sure had nothing to do with writing the Bible, nor was I consulted as to what words to use in the bible.

I just believed the Bible has used the correct words..
and, I just pointed the word out to people, who perhaps overlooked what the term means.
"Formed " is a word that speaks to us about a "process".

Use the word "formed" in nearly any context and you will see how it is talking about a careful process to reach a planned result.

So when the writer of Genesis used a word such as this , we can draw from its use that He was talking about God using a careful process to create life out of the fundamental element of the earth.


thats what the term means....that what the Bible says in black and white.

I "believe" only as I can prove....


I teach only what i can prove.



Thus when i teach that there is no ending to the 7th day yet in the Scriptures, Im eithor right or Im wrong.

If Im right, then all of YEC is in error and evolution stands unchallenged by the story of Genesis.
If Im wrong, then you should be able to point to a verse , some place in the Bible, that teaches that the 7th day ended....



So am I right?

(because if you say "no" then I'm going to straight-away demand you post the verse that lists the ending to the 7th day)

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my use?

MY USE ??? !!!

God's Holy Bible used the term - "formed".....


I sure had nothing to do with writing the Bible, nor was I consulted as to what words to use in the bible.

I just believed the Bible has used the correct words..
and, I just pointed the word out to people, who perhaps overlooked what the term means.
"Formed " is a word that speaks to us about a "process".

Use the word "formed" in nearly any context and you will see how it is talking about a careful process to reach a planned result.

So when the writer of Genesis used a word such as this , we can draw from its use that He was talking about God using a careful process to create life out of the fundamental element of the earth.


thats what the term means....that what the Bible says in black and white.

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I have no objection to the way the Bible uses the term “formed”. What I object to it you trying to manipulate the English word formed to make it say something that it does not. You are trying to make the term “formed” to be different than Made or create so you can bamboozle people into thinking that the Bible somehow is teaching that God cannot create a world in 6, 24 hour days. You are taking extreme liberties with the English language and abusing the English Bible making God dependent on the Godless evolution theory.

The term formed does not mean a slow, drawn out over millions of years, event. The bible says it was done in 6 DAYS, 6, 24 hour periods. The text does not allow for millions of years.

Formed (http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/formed)
3. to bring into being by combining, shaping, or transforming materials <formed the pot out of the clay>
Synonyms fabricate, fashion, form, frame, manufacture, produce
Related Words ***emble, build, construct, erect, make up, put up, raise, rear, set up, structure, throw up; craft, handcraft; hew; forge, mold, shape; cobble (together or up), knock out, patch (together), throw up; prefabricate; create, invent, mint, originate; establish, father, ins***ute, organize; concoct, contrive, cook (up), design, devise, imagine, think (up); conceive, envisage, picture, visualize; refashion, remake, remanufacture
Near Antonyms dis***emble, dismantle, take apart; break up, dismember; abolish, annihilate, demolish, destroy, devastate, eradicate, exterminate, extinguish, flatten, pulverize, raze, ruin, shatter, smash, wreck; **** up, explode

4. to come into existence <the new company formed from two smaller ones>
Synonyms actualize, appear, arise, break, commence, dawn, engender, form, materialize, originate, set in, spring, start

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof

You haven't proved one thing as far as God needing to use the Godless theory of evolution.

Post 258
Am I right?

You haven't proved anything and post 258 is meaningless. Evolution is not teaching the Bible creation and the Bible certainly is not in any form of agreement with evolution. You are in obvious error.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I
(because if you say "no" then I'm going to straight-away demand you post the verse that lists the ending to the 7th day)

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Am I right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I



the YEC teacher says LIGHT was the first thing created. ...II say it's the heavens. .....who is right?

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Heavens or light ???

You are wrong. The ending of the 7th day or the non-ending of the 7th day has nothing to do with it. Evolution is a theory that has not been proven to be true. Evolution is a theory that is contrary to the Bible. The bible is true and tells a different direction of the earth and its creation than evolution. If you try to combine the two the result is the same as oil and water, they do not mix.

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Heavens or light ???

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Genesis was written by Moses and God is revealing to him what he had done. Genesis 1:1 is a blanket statement of what God had done. God created the heaven and the Earth. From verse 2 forward tells us the order of events of the rest of the 6 days

Verse 2 states that the Earth was in darkness. The earth was there before the light of any kind was exposed to the earth. The light that was before the sun and the moon that was created on the fourth day was there after the earth.

The first day there was no sun, no moon or any lights until the fourth day. (See Genesis 1:14 to 17) Only the light of God.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Im not asking for your interpretation of what the Bible is saying,,,,,

Im just asking, what does the Bible list as the first thing God created "In the beginning"?

Read what I have quoted from the Bible and tell me that it is not as I have stated. I told you what was created first. The Earth was before the light.

I did not interpret, I told you what it said and left the scripture there for you to read. it is obvious that you would rather read the unfounded evolution theory and ignore the truth of scripture.

What does the bible list as the first thing god created "in the beginning? "

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What does the bible list as the first thing god created "in the beginning? "

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.......too hard?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

.......too hard?

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Read it and figure it out for yourself if it isn't too hard!

Genesis 1:1 is a blanket statement of what God had done. God created the heaven and the Earth. From verse 2 forward tells us the order of events of the rest of the 6 days

Verse 2 states that the Earth was in darkness. The earth was there before the light of any kind was exposed to the earth. The light that was before the sun and the moon that was created on the fourth day was there after the earth.

The first day there was no sun, no moon or any lights until the fourth day. (See Genesis 1:14 to 17) Only the light of God.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

What is the first thing listed in the Bible that God created "In the beginning"?

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:1 is a blanket statement of what God had done. God created the heaven and the Earth. From verse 2 forward tells us the order of events of the rest of the 6 days The first thing that was created was the Day Night effect.

Verse 2 states that the Earth was in darkness. The earth was there before the light of any kind was exposed to the earth. The light that was before the sun and the moon that was created on the fourth day was there after the earth.

The first day there was no sun, no moon or any lights until the fourth day. (See Genesis 1:14 to 17) Only the light of God.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What is the first thing listed in the Bible that God created "In the beginning"?

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still no answer?.....

I have answered. you don't seem to want to reply. But that is no surprise. Your record with me is that you get backed into a corner and you refuse to answer and expect me to feel bad because you come back with your uneducated response of, "Still can't answer" when you know that I did answer. Grow up to mach your almost 60 years.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

I have answered. you don't seem to want to reply. But that is no surprise. Your record with me is that you get backed into a corner and you refuse to answer and expect me to feel bad because you come back with your uneducated response of, "Still can't answer" when you know that I did answer. Grow up to mach your almost 60 years.

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What does the Bible list as the very first thing God created "In the beginning"?

I gave my answer. You should respond to it, not repeat the question.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

I gave my answer. You should respond to it, not repeat the question.

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What is the very first thing the Bible lists that God created "In the beginning"?

Was it trees?

I have answered. You respond to the answer, don't ask the same question. Refer to the first time I answered the question and then respond to the answer. that is how a discussion works.

so its not the trees then?





Hmm?...well, was it the fish then?

Does the Bible list that the fish were the first thing God "created" In the Beginning?

I have answered. You respond to the answer, don't ask the same question. Refer to the first time I answered the question and then respond to the answer. that is how a discussion works.

Try growing up or find a good hobby that you can engage in alone.

I think its fun to watch the YEC guys struggle so....to say anything and everything, except for what the Bible says.

But in the end, thats all Im going to be talking about.
What the Bible says in black and white.

oh Im not interested at all to listen to what people think the text means....
Thats why you never hear me ask, "Hey what do you think that verse means?"

Im simply not interested in asking people who are swept up in YEC teachings what they believe, as I have heard that all before from a lot better.

oh Im very sure they got all kinds of reasons why the Text cant simply mean what it simply says... LOL


But I just stuck close to the text and only deal at first with what it says...
and speaking of what the text says....



What does the Bible say is the first thing God is said to have created "In the beginning"?

I have answered. You respond to the answer, don't ask the same question. Refer to the first time I answered the question and then respond to the answer. that is how a discussion works.

What does the Bible say is the first thing God is said to have created "In the beginning"?