from a political perspective, I dont have a problem voting for a Mormon like Mitt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Wait--on one hand you want morality to be your top issue to determine which politician to vote for and on the other hand you can't see if this morality applies to their own decisions regarding their family?

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Yes....drop back and read the name of this topic and from it you should get a more clear understanding of my views.





I believe that it would be wrong to use Mitt's personal private life as a reason not to vote for him as our president.

While I think that there are better people in the race right now, the truth is that I have been very openly saying from the beginning that I expect that Mitt will win the nomination , and i have every intention to vote for him over Obama if he does win.


This is totally different that the voices you may hear on this topic that say that unless the Mormon wins they wont vote for anyone!


I believe my understanding is vastly superior than such voices.

Both the voices from the Blind Mormon camp, and the voices from the blind Christian camp are just a bunch of FAIL in my eyes.


So, I dont hold the personal life of Mitt against him when I consider him for the White House.

I dont judge Mitt or any of the rest of them by how good a husband or wife they are.
I dont judge them for being president based on how good they are at getting their pets to behave.
I dont judge them for being president based on their sex life, or how well they kept their personal vows to their mate.
I dont judge them for being president on if they were a virgin or not.
I dont judge them for being president by the type of god they worship, or their position on the tribulation.

Someone can totally disagree with me on all the non-Political issues of our private lives, and it would not matter a hoot to me.

So the fact that i consider his Mormon faith a joke, is moot.
So the fact I think Mitt's morality if be completely false and evil, is moot.
So the fact I believe Mitt's god to be Satan,is moot.
So the fact that Mitt's willingness to be part of a well-known CULT in spite of the clear warnings of scripture and the Christian church m,arks him out in my mind as a seriously spiritually flawed individual, is moot ,

Because I consider all that personal and private stuff to be off limits when I go into vote for the next President.

Thus, I dont care how many women Mitt has slept with,
or how many abortions his wife has had....

I dont care because all that type of personal stuff is not what I will judge his political ideas by.

I will judge Mitt by his POLITICAL RECORD.....
I will judge Mitt by his plans for the future of this country.
I will judge Mitt by the way he handles himself in the debates, and if he seems to have the political understandings that i think a president should have.

Im not going to judge him or anyone by the fact that his kids posed for Playboy...or got caught smoking crack.....etc, etc, etc.

The ***le of this topic should show you that I consider the personal life of people to not be all that important in that moment I enter into the voting booth.



But I reserve a special place in hell for anyone who brings up the children of people seeking office.
I attack them, I put them in my sights and they know that have made a life-time foe in me......(In short I try my best to get them banned)

The reason i truly deep-down hate the people that bring up the kids of our leaders is that unless we allow the family of our leaders to enjoy privacy, we will end up with only unmarried, childless, non-believers in office....for we had made it too hard to be a parent and a president....

[QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

So, I dont hold the personal life of Mitt against him when I consider him for the White House.
The fact that i consider his Mormon faith a joke, his morality if be completely false and evil, his god to be Satan, and his willingness to be part of a well-known CULT, is all off limits when i go into vote for the next President.

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Yes, I can see you are completely unbiased when it comes to Mitt.:)

Quote:

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Thus, i dont care

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Quote:

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how many women Mitt has slept with,
or how many abortions his wife has had....

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Really. That is surprising because you said you think Newt was a changed man and Mitt, not based on what again?

Quote:

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Im not going to judge him or anyone by the fact that his kids posed for Playboy...or got caught smoking crack.....etc, etc, etc.

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THat is fine for you. My point was (if you remember) that I had no problem with what Santorum did regarding his baby--my point was that those who use moral judgements (including religion) as a way to decide like Rick Santorum---it seems like a double standard to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

I think if I tried to go to a mostly evangelical school and set up a "Mormon club" and start handing out pamplets (which is what these other clubs do)--you would see a backlash of upset parents, etc. .

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If your club meets after school, and stays within the guidlines of what you do there, (No damage to school property, provide a safe environment for all children....no starting fires etc.) then No one is going to raise a question.

We have many such after-school clubs in our schools..

I dont see the problem with a Mormon or JW or even a Moonie club.

On the other hand, a private christian school would not have to allow you to use their building for non-Christian events.

So if other faiths,want to start an after-school club?...good for them..

[QUOTE=BigJulie;110356]

Quote:

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Really. That is surprising because you said you think Newt was a changed man and Mitt, not based on what again?

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I believe I said that i do not hold Newt's lovers and the fact that he broke his wedding vows against him when I vote for president.

I believe that if a person has gotten married, and that the marriage is based on the right thngs, that i dont hold the fact that its a guy's 3rd or 4th wedding against him for that.

On the other hand, I have said that there is just this smell to Mitt....
its a smell of insincerity when he talks about his views on important issues.

I compared this "smell" i get from Mitt to a guy who breaks up with his wife to marry another woman because the 2nd women had won the Lotto.

That is a type of marriage i would not respect.

I would not respect that type of marriage just like I don't respect the views of Mitt that he comes barfing out with because they could not appear more insincere to my ears.

And this is a topic i have done my homework on.
I have heard Mitt out on this issue...

I have read the story of when and how Mitt claims to have flipped his positions on important issues...and Im convinced from just the evidence and the timing of such things, that his story is invented.....

When I look at Mitt, I see a guy who will flip positions when it becomes politically needed to do so.

This hints to me that Mitt has no conservative core compared to guys like Rick and newt.

With Rick and Newt you can see in their words the power their core conservative hearts to shape their ideas of the future.


The main problem i have with Newt is not based on his personal life, or his personal religion, rather its the fact they with Newt he tends to go off the rails and is just not there when you need him.

The main problem I have with Mitt as he has shown that on important issues, where I will need a strong conservative President to take a stand, that Mitt has shown in his record that he has left some people who supported him in the past hanging....

I dont want a president who is known to leave people hanging...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Let me get this straight---after this whole discussion--you see religions teachings as "one God" "Jesus Christ was resurrected" and "Mormonism as a CULT"---as part of religious teachings?

:

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yes.....

The idea that Jesus is God Almighty is a Christian religious teaching.

this is different than the values I seek to support with my vote.
In the voting booth I will use my vote to support Christian values...
Such as hard work.
Advancement based on merit.
Defending innocent life...


So this means?
It means that I will seek out people to vote for that support my Christian values, such as protecting my right to worship God and pray....

But I will not vote for a person who thinks that the State should write my prayer.

There is a difference in protecting a right to worship God.
And using the State to force the worship of God.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Let me get this straight---after this whole discussion--you see religions teachings as "one God" "Jesus Christ was resurrected" and "Mormonism as a CULT"---as part of religious teachings?

:

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yes.....

The idea that Jesus is God Almighty is a Christian religious teaching.

this is different than the values I seek to support with my vote.
In the voting booth I will use my vote to support Christian values...
Such as hard work.
Advancement based on merit.
Defending innocent life...


So this means?
It means that I will seek out people to vote for that support my Christian values, such as protecting my right to worship God and pray....

But I will not vote for a person who thinks that the State should write my prayer.

There is a difference in protecting a right to worship God, and using the State to force the worship of God.

[QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I believe I said that i do not hold Newt's lovers and the fact that he broke his wedding vows against him when I vote for president.

I believe that if a person has gotten married, and that the marriage is based on the right thngs, that i dont hold the fact that its a guy's 3rd or 4th wedding against him for that.

On the other hand, I have said that there is just this smell to Mitt....
its a smell of insincerity when he talks about his views on important issues.

I compared this "smell" i get from Mitt to a guy who breaks up with his wife to marry another woman because the 2nd women had won the Lotto.

That is a type of marriage i would not respect.

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So, you can forgive one of adultery and being changed, but the other, you cannot forgive because it smells fishy to you. I am sure this has absolutely nothing to do with your beliefs regarding my religion as a cult. :)

Quote:

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The main problem I have with Mitt as he has shown that on important issues, where I will need a strong conservative President to take a stand, that Mitt has shown in his record that he has left some people who supported him in the past hanging....

I dont want a president who is known to leave people hanging...

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You know all I see, Alan---is another Mike Huckabee. Another person that the evangelicals are going to throw out there that has no chance to beat Obama because he doesn't have the organization to win. It would be great if we were having a cooking contest, but this type of contest takes a lot of preparation, money, and organization. Mitt has been preparing for years to take on Obama (the establishment, the unions)...and you want to throw out someone whose chances are limited because Mitt smells "fishy" to you. Okay.

So, to me, I see once again, the evangelicals cutting off their nose to spite their face all because, while they can forgive other candidates of all types of things---Mitt just smells fishy (and it has nothing to do with prejudice...I am sure. ;))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Libby---I don't think either club has a place in our schools. I see school as a place for academic learning and we need to leave value training (other than honesty, etc.) at home. It is not that these clubs are a problem, but I think they become a distraction as kids try to find themselves and also begin to stereo-type, etc. based on these types of clubs. This is why I also support school uniforms. School is not about discovering your individuality (accept in academics), but about learning. To me, the less distractions the better. I think if I tried to go to a mostly evangelical school and set up a "Mormon club" and start handing out pamplets (which is what these other clubs do)--you would see a backlash of upset parents, etc. The school then becomes the stomping ground for a political contest rather than an academic setting. The frontal lobe doesn't develop until at least 16---so, leave it to the colleges to let kids explore their religious beliefs, sexual beliefs, etc.

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Yeah, private schools are different, though...different rules. Basically, they can make their own rules. But, in public school we have to be fair to everyone. I agree that the clubs either have to go, altogether, or they have to allow diversity. I don't really see them as a distraction. They meet after school or at lunch time, on their own time. I think they are a part of socialization, in highschool, especially. I belonged to a couple of clubs in highschool, and it helps to meet friends who share your values and interests, I think. In the case of gay adolescents, I can't think of a group of kids who more need that kind of support.

Well the election now moves to NH and this is the moment when we will see in Rick can muster support or not?

The most important factor in the race right now is money.

Rick needs a lot of money, so much that at every event in the next few days he has got to raise some cash.
rick also has to start really working the phones to try to get the endorcements he needs to swing voters away from Mitt.

The first thing Rick really has to do is look real hard at the numbers coming out of Iowa and think about how to use them.

Lets look at Iowa and see what it could mean under the right circumstances in NH...

Mitt Romney only got 24% of the Iowa vote after out spending everyone else in the race...at times he was out spending 10 to 1.

24% is what Mitt has been stuck at for months.
No matter what happened to anyone else in this race, Mitt was stuck at 24%.

This hints that 24% might actually all Mitt can expect from the Republican voters, and so this means that there is a HUGE number of solidly "Anyone but Mitt" type of people out there that are voting, and are unmoved by all of Mitt's organization and cash.

Ron Paul got over 21% of the Iowa vote.
Ron has enough money, enough organization and support within the younger members of the Party to stay in this until the ending.

21% is higher that i would have expected...and shows just how loved the guy is among the Party members.
There is very little chance Rick can grasp the Ron Paul voters unless Ron hits some type of self-destruct and drives his own supporters away.

So Ron Paul's 20% is spoken for and off the table

Newt Gingrich got around 13% of the Iowa vote.
This is what Rick has to get on the phone with Newt and get that guy to drop out after next week.
Rick needs every last one of the people who support Newt.
If Rick and cut a deal/push Newt into dropping out after NH votes, then it would show that Rick is ready for the hard battles and arm-twisting in Washington that is part of being President.

Newt and getting Newt to drop out next week, is how we will learn how forceful Rick can be.
Rick needs to look Newt in the eyes and tell him that "It's over. It's been fun, but now it's time for you to throw your support to me, then get off the stage"

Time will tell is Rick has the stones to do this?

Rick Perry has sorta dropped off the radar already.
But Perry still has an important role to play in this election.Perry has to stand on a stage and offer his supprt to Rick,,,then Perry has to work in SC to bring in the strong Christian vote for Rick.

In SC, it would be in Rick's interest to allow Perry to introduce him at a few stops.

Michele Bachmann is holding out for a cabinet position.
Im thinking that she wants Rick to offer her the *** of Sec Of State or Defense.
Michele has been playing it very cool the last few days....and thats got to worry Rick.

Rick needs Michele to help him connect with the Tea Party...
I think the Tea Party has been sitting around waiting for people to start paying attention to them, and that the spark they need would be to see Michele Bachmann surround herself with all the Tea Party leaders and then put her endorsement to Rick...

Rick needs it to look like the Tea Party has officially got behind him.

So to sum up:
Iowa showed us a path that Rick needs to walk if he wants to have any chance at all of overcoming Mitt's cash.
Rick needs to get all the other conservatives in the race to drop out and swing their support and CASH to him....
Rick needs every last dollar they can give him, and every last vote they can swing his way.


Things to look for this week?

Rick needs to get Michele Bachmann to come out strongly supporting him as soon as it can be done.

Next Rick needs a statement of support from Perry.

and after that?
Then Rick has to call Newt after NH votes and tell Newt that "It's time to go"

[QUOTE=BigJulie;110390]

Quote:

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So, you can forgive one of adultery and being changed, but the other, you cannot forgive because it smells fishy to you. ))

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Yes,
I can forgive anyone and know my offer of forgiveness is for the best because I can see the honesty of man's words when speaking about his better half.

Does this mean he cant fall again?
No....

Heck the smart money is on Newt falling again in his relationships with his woman....

But i judge the man's heart as sinsere and so I forgive him if he asked me to.

But remember,,,,no matter I forgive his chealing on his wife or not, I dont take his sex life into account when thinking of who i want as President.

Newt could cheat tomorrow, or do other things in his personal life I disagree with, and yet it would be a moot point to the question "Should he be President?"

I allow Newt is private life....
Im not interested in Newt's faith.
Im not interested in his marriage.

Im only interested in Newt's goals for this country should he become president.
Im only interested in Newts political track record with the core issues I think are most important in this election....(abortion, prayer, etc)


As for the smell that I detect Mitt giving off everytime he talks about his many flip-flops?

It's part of the whole issue that Conservatives like myself have with Mitt....

It's not just me,,,,there are a lot of voting members of the Republican Party that look at Mitt and just see "insincerity" and "political expediency"

Now that I have looked at what Rick needs to do in NH, it's time to turn our attention to what Mitt needs to happen in NH.....

Mitt's goal in NH?

To win, and win big!

Mitt needs to totally destroy all the rest of the field in NH.
This will cause all the sources of money to all the other people left in the race to dry up.

This would also give Mitt a very good chance to go into SC and win there too.

A clean victory in both NH and SC would get Mitt to his real goal of having the nomination all wrapped up by Florida.

And lets not overlook this fact.
Mitt's goal is to have this all over by Florida so that from that point on he will not have to spend one dime running against any other Republicans.
After Florida Mitt wants this election to be "Mitt against Obama"
Not "Mitt against Rick and Ron"

So to make this as painless as he can, Mitt needs to win in NH next week, and win big.

Mitt needs to win big to be able to sweep into Sc and have that State not become a problem for him.

right now, Rick is just praying to get enough money to make a "last stand " in SC.
Rick known that his only real chance of overcoming Mitt's lead in this election is to beat Mitt in SC.

If Rick can win SC he can force this game into extras innings and perhaps all the way to the convention.

So this is why Mitt really needs to destroy the whole rest of the field in NH.
A big victory for Mitt in NH next week will be the signal that he is unstoppable, and that any money given to the other guy is a pointless.

In most elections you win the Republican spot on the ticket by appealing to the far right, and then in the general election moving to the center.

Mitt is going at this in a different way.

Mitt is already to the center, and Mitt has done this because the way he thinks, he does not need the conservative wing of the Republican Party to come out to support him.

Mitt's idea is that he can write-off the conservative Christians, and make up for this loss of their support by drawing more liberal/undecided voters.

Has any person in modern history ever won doing this?...nope.
But we shall see....we shall see....

The answer might come for us early in SC.
For in SC we will get our first real clear answer about the depth of support Mitt can count on from the Republican conservatives.
If Mitt can win in NH and turn around and use this to get him another victory in SC, it would prove more or less to the whole Party that Mitt is getting the "Christian Vote"

In a very real way, Rick's "Last Stand" is going to be SC.
That is the only chance Rick has in this election...
Does Rick have to win in SC?.....yes

On a side note...even if Rick does lose in SC, he needs to yet make a strong showing to force Mitt to late pick him as the VP.

a strong showing by Rick in SC would lead the party to put the screws on Mitt to make sure he picks a VP like Rick that will draw the needed Christian/conservatives to vote for him.

a weak showing of Rick in SC would on the other hand show that Mitt's plan is actually working, and there is a chance ........
Do I believe Mitt has a chance against Obama without strong support of Christians like myself?....no.

I think that in the end, there will be a unspoken deal made between Mitt and guys like myself as to what we will expect from each other to beat Obama.

But, we shall see.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80601720120107


The only time I actually get real mad during an election is when I see someone attempting to drag in kids into the issue....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mitt's idea is that he can write-off the conservative Christians, and make up for this loss of their support by drawing more liberal/undecided voters.

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I don't think that Mitt has written off conservative Christians---I just think he has read the writing on the wall of "anyone but Mitt" at***ude that is going on and so not wasting money were it will do little good---but I think what he is counting on is that if he can win over the rest of the party, these anti-Mitt conservative Christians will come around.

Time to tell you my views on the "Newt" issue.

Ever ask, "Why is Newt in this race?"

I mean lets look at what Newt has been up to from the start of this.
Newt has never once taken the steps a guy needs to take to raise the type of cash a guy needs to have if he wanted to make a serious run for the White House.

Newt has never once tried to raise that type of money...

In fact, remember his own staff actually walked out the door on Newt when it became clear to them all that Newt was not in this to win.
Newts staff would try their best to get things lined up, they would make the phone calls, and get things ready for Newt to step up, and then.....?.....Newt would stay home and not show up....

Newt left his own staff hanging time after time until they had had enough and walked out the door to join a different person's staff.

Newt made only a few appearances in Iowa, and the results show his lack of effort.

So why is he still hanging around?


Newt can read as good as the next person.
Newt can count.....
Newt knows he don't have a chance to knock out Mitt.

So why is Newt still acting as if he was tied for the lead?

The answer I have come up with is that Newt is using the Primary as a means to pump-up his name value.
Newt wants to get out of this the ability to have a higher price to attend one of his speeches.
Newt wants his future appearances on TV's Sunday talk shows to be more of a big deal.

and.......

Newt knows that if he just stays in the news for a while, he might outlive Rick's popularity with Conservatives too.

Yes, there is a chance that if Newt sticks around long enough, that Rick's poll numbers might sink the way Cain's did....and that would leave Newt as the last Conservative standing to carry the flag against Mitt.

So......this is all that I see behind Newt's actions in this election when everyone knows he has not a chance in Hell of beating Mitt in a normal stand-up fight.

Newt's in this to raise his stock with conservatives in the future.
Newt's in this because he understands if Rick falls that he would be the last conservative guy left standing to go up against Mitt.

So what does Newt want?

I would guess that Newt wants Rick to drop out of the race...LOL

What do the other guys want?
I would guess that Rick wants Newt to drop out of the race after NH and before SC.
Rick knows he will need a strong showing in SC if he can have any real future dream of lasting until Florida.
Rick knows also that if Newt is still in the race by the time SC rolls around that the two of them will be splitting the conservative vote, and this will only work to make Mitt's numbers look all the better.

That is why Rick needs Newt to drop out after next week, and so clear the field for all the conservatives in Sc to only have one name to pick from to go against Mitt.


Mitt on the other hand?

Mitt clearly wants Newt to stick around and mess up the polling numbers in both NH and SC for the conservatives.

Mitt knows that he is actually getting less than 24% support no matter what poll you look at of Republican voters, and so while this is a rather low percent if you think about it, it yet will be enough to win the ticket as long as everyone else polls lower than Mitt does.

So Mitt knows he can's break past the low 20% numbers in the polls, and so he needs to keep Newt in the race drawing people away from all ganging up to support Rick.

So,I am watching the debate and I am thinking to myself--Newt brings up some really good points---Newt is a good debater. Than the last question of the night--would both Newt and Mitt drop their PAC ads--and the way Newt responded about the video regarding Bain Capitol, well, I thought--what a hypocritic--what a scum. Any points he won were toast. Now I find out his 5 million dollar backer is a casino capitolist and I think, I am not surprised at all. Newt is not a politician. Ultimately, he is a lobbyist. That has become obvious. So, what do I think about his "video expose" of Mitt? Hmmm, going after capitolism to beat the Republican base...why not just run as a Democrat? So, I wonder how many people will weep and cry for the capitolist tactics of a venture capitolist company? How many people will weep and cry that union members whose company was going under did not keep their union *** and pay as Bain reshaped their companies? I guess that is the argument right now in the country. Do we innovate and keep up so we can compete or do we try to keep our typewriters and our steel company employees with their union paychecks and pensions?

Want to know who did the best in the debate?

This guy did.....

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...cid=ansmsnbc11


I could not believe that Mitt said the silly thing that he said...

Im going to have to take a 2nd look at this Jon Huntsman.
What I saw was a guy handle an attack the way I would have expected a true leader would handle it.

Up to this last debate I never really gave Jon Huntsman a real look.
But Im thinking now that this guy might actually be the real deal.


Mitt on the other hand?
confirmed my views about him being just a shell......an empty shell...that ****s back and forth in the wind.

i remember now....

I remember what I thought of the moment I heard Mitt make this regrettable and un-American attack against Jon Huntsman.

There was a TV show I loved a while ago called The West Wing....and on that show once there was a similar attack made against a Republican for serving a Democratic President that was just like what Mitt tried to do against Jon Huntsman in the last debate.


I will do a search and see if I can find that clip.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udIUW...eature=related


and......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP3owlMdxls


Mitt's comment calls to mind this episode of West Wing, where 2 a__holes attack the lone Republican working for a Liberal Dem president..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZq7DN4g3Ro

compare this moment in the debate to this moment on West Wing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk5NwLr3OmQ

So Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman did very good in the last debate..

Mitt showed he really is an a__hole for attacking a guy who would serve his country...

and so who lost the debate?
Rick did......no question about it.

Rick had his big moment in the limelight to shine,,,he needed to show that he deserves to carry the flag for the conservatives.
and.........
well....

he kinda showed he was not really what the conservatives were looking for.

Im not saying that Rick is finished..
But I am saying that Rick needed to impress....Rick needed to take control...Rick needed people to forget about Mitt.
But...

But Rick sorta looked like a trainee up there.....

Today "IS" the day!

Today we have the first real test of the true deep-down view that Republicans have of Mitt, and we will know if later in the general election against Obama if Mitt has the type of support he needs to count on to win.

Today will show us all the answers to all the questions i have been tossing out into this conversation.

I will go over the many ideas I have about what this day will mean to the people in this race as this day goes on, but right now I just wanted to say that it will be so much fun tonight to learn the real answers and not just have to guess how things stand.

We will know....

We will know how Mitt stands and who supports him and who does not.

We will know where Mitt has done a good *** and where he needs to work harder yet.

We will know if Mitt has this all wrapped up, or will this drag on into SC?

What Does Mitt Need To Happen Today?


Mitt needs to destroy his compe***ion today.
Mitt knows that today is the whole primary in one day for his race to the White House.

Mitt needs to show that he is not just the front runner, but is already in the race against Obama.

So what does this mean Mitt needs?
it means that Mitt knows full well that he cant draw less than around 30% of the NH vote today.

Mitt knows also that he has to get out of his being stuck at the mid-20s% of the Republican vote.
He knows that to be a serious contender against Obama he will need to show right here today for all to see that he has this wrapped up with the needed Conservative support of his Party to take on the Dems.

26% - 28% today for Mitt is a loss for him....
No matter that the other guys finish will less.
Mitt has to finish with a 30% vote total or higher to be able to claim a victory in NH .


What Mitt is likely looking to receive today is around a 36% to about 56% of the vote....But the higher the better!

a win at 36% would be death for all the others in the race that had a hope if making a close game of it next week in SC.

a 40% vote for Mitt would cause everyone except for the die-hards to swing to support him.
if he gets 40% then everyone will start to turn and start asking "Who will Mitt pack as his VP?"

I think a 40% or better result for Mitt tonight will grab the attention of the country, and will have everyone looking.
I think all the others would suddenly start to find things of merit in Mitt, as they all start to let Mitt know they would be interested in joining him on the ticket.
It's going to be fun to watch how people that had nothing good to say about each other and each other's supporters, now suddenly find all kinds of nice things to say about each other...LOL

a 50% or better vote tonight to support Mitt would likely cause even the guys in 2nd and 3rd place to reconsider going on to Sc and Florida.


Mitt not only needs a higher percent to say he won in NH, he also needs Rick to fall apart.

Mitt would love to see the headline in tomorrow's paper to be talking about what a disappointment Rick is following the results of the NH primary.

Mitt needs all the talk of Rick's rise in the polls to now be replaced with talk of Rick's fall in the polls.

After today Mitt would like Rick to be a non-issue in the election..

[QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

So Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman did very good in the last debate..

Mitt showed he really is an a__hole for attacking a guy who would serve his country...

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An interesting point of view. I saw the debate and saw it differently. What is happening is China right now is destroying our country. They are keeping the value of their money purposely low which enables them to export and undercut our at-home prices. They are stealing our intellectual property at rapid rates. This isn't just something Romney is saying, this is fact. The fact is---if we get tough on them about trade, they stand as much (if not more) to lose than we do. What Romney attacked Huntsman on was that fact that not only was he perpetuating bad policy under this administration, Huntsman continues to defend it. China is the Russia of our new global economy. Huntsman wants to go soft, Romney doesn't. Huntsman twisted his continuing support (during the campaign) of Obama's policy into being a "servant of the country."

Obviously, you fell for this. I guess I can add Huntsman to your long list of who you have supported over this time period---Cain, to Newt, to Huntsman. I guess now you can at least pat yourself on the back that your "any one but Mitt" mentality includes another Mormon....even if you know there is no chance of him winning. ;)

When the President calls on you to serve your country,,,,you serve and feel honored to do so.

I find not even the hint of something wrong in the actionas and statements of Huntsman.

If Mitt cant see this fact,,,,if Mitt cant see this as doing your duty to this country...Then I could never vote for Mitt....no matter he wins the primary or not.

What we see in Mitt's at***ude is the complete foolishness of putting Party loyalty ahead of Patriotism.


I think we may see the recording played a lot over this next year of Mitt attempting to use Huntsman's patriotism against him.
This might be one of the things that points us to the conclusion that the undecided voter went with Obama over Mitt in the general election.


Im going to have to BOOKMARK this part of this topic so I can refer back to it over the next year and point out that it was right "HERE" where we saw the first sign that Mitt's plan to abandon the Conservatives in hope of attracting the Independents was going to fall apart.

I have been keeping track of how things are going today as they vote in NH,...

And I must say that Newt sure has gotten a lot of mileage off of his last appearance in the debate.

I really didn't think he was one of the winners of that last debate, but from all the talk on the radio and Tv and on the different political websites , it does seem clear that the last debate has put Newt back in the hunt....

[QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

When the President calls on you to serve your country,,,,you serve and feel honored to do so.

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And then do you continue to promote bad policy under that administration that is hurting our country. The fact is, China is manipulating their currency. The fact is that China is stealing intellectual property rights at a scary pace. So, I heard Romney stating that Huntsman's defending of this type of policy is exactly what is huritng our country. It is one thing to serve---it is another thing to defend bad policy which is what Huntsman has been doing.

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I find not even the hint of something wrong in the actionas and statements of Huntsman.

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Then you haven't been paying attention to why we are losing ***s to China. China is not taking our ***s because of cheap labor. The law of comparative advantages would say that we should be able to export to their growing economy. We are not because of their unfair trade practices. If you think Huntsman is a "servant" for defending this type of practice--well, let's just keep giving up our economic well-being to China.

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If Mitt cant see this fact,,,,if Mitt cant see this as doing your duty to this country

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Do you realize that Mitt was making a point about Huntsman's political point of view and why he was doing what he was doing. Huntsman continued to defend this view throughout the debate. How do you get up as a candidate and go against the very thing you have been doing as a "servant"--the very thing that has been hurting our country because you have been doing it? Huntsman can't take a strong stance against China because he has been supporting the very policies that have been hurting us. You can go ahead and call that American. Some would just say "no thank you" when asked to do something that is economically hurtful to their country.

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Then I could never vote for Mitt

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Alan, there is nothing at this point that could convince me that you have ever had an unbiased eye toward Mitt. You shouldn't says "then I could never"---when you never would have in the first place.

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Im going to have to BOOKMARK this part of this topic so I can refer back to it over the next year and point out that it was right "HERE" where we saw the first sign that Mitt's plan to abandon the Conservatives in hope of attracting the Independents was going to fall apart.

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So, I stopped ever listening to Rush the minute he started defending Herman Cain. As a woman, I cannot join in with a bunch of woman-bashers. Then today I read on the news that Rush is pointing out that if the Republicans are all going after capitolism as the "evil" of this country, then there is no hope. Ron Paul is also addressing the fact that Newt going after capitolism is a divisive move that will destroy any hope the republican base has in restoring a free market against socialism. Wow, I never thought I would be thanking Rush for stating the obvious or Ron Paul for understanding how the American economy works.

The way it is going, if Newt keeps it up, and if people like you keep believing that supporting China is "serving" our country and capitolism is the enemy--well, we have four more years of Obama because there is nothing else.

So lets review my views on tonight's outcome and what things may mean for Mitt?


If Mitt stomps on the rest of the field, then this race is over.
To truly end this here and now Mitt would need to get more percent of the vote than all the rest added up together.

This would mean over 50% for Mitt tonight would spell the end of everyone's dreams this time around.

On the flip side.....Whats a loss of Mitt?

I would say that anything under 30% to around 36% tonight for Mitt would be seen as a loss for Mitt.

Mitt needs to make a clear showing that he is the leader tonight.
a less than 30% total for him is just going to invite people to start looking for someone else to get into this race.

a 20-30% outcome would be a lot of trouble....
It depends on how things pan out, but if Mitt actually comes in 2nd?...then all bets are off!

What if Mitt came in 3rd?
If Mitt came in 3rd tonight there would be a calling within the Party for him to get out of the race now, and make room for someone else to step up.

So the best thing for Mitt to do tonight is finish with around 40% of the vote, and far ahead of the pack.

The worst thing to do tonight is get less than 30% as that would mean he clearly is not going to win this without a long dragged-out fight into the spring.


we shall see...


So if Mitt gets above 36% tonight it would mean that no one else has a chance...and that this is mostly all over.

30% to 36% tonight would mean that people would be still saying that Mitt is unable to carry the conservatives and that he is in a lot of trouble even within his own Party, let alone thinking he can take on a sitting President.

24% to 30% for Mitt tonight would mean to everyone in the Party that Mitt just is not the guy.......and that the Party better pick someone else fast.
.....and....

and if Mitt gets less than 24% tonight regardless of where that puts him in the ranking, the Party leadership would start to ease him out of the race before Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udIUW...eature=related


and......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP3owlMdxls


So far this moment in the election still means the most to me....
This is the moment I think I saw Mitt's appeal to the undecided voter fail...

but we shall see.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udIUW...eature=related


and......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP3owlMdxls


So far this moment in the election still means the most to me....
This is the moment I think I saw Mitt's appeal to the undecided voter fail...

but we shall see.....

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I guess I don't make my political decision based on a T.V. show but rather my education regarding the world, economics, and our history/cons***ution. ;)

I think what that one moment showed me was the true measure of the man...

Huntsman came forth and spoke the words that I think needed saying.

I have members of my family that have went off to serve this country in Iraq over the last few years.
I enjoyed hearing Huntsman's views that serving this country, even if you might disagree with it or not, is the most important thing a patriotic American can do.


How sad to hear a Republican say what I heard said against Huntsman's ability of looking past ideology and only asking, "What can I do?"


Serving the United States when the President calls you and tells you that "The country needs you" is an thing that is a credit to any American.

Im proud to say I find much in agreement with Huntsman's views on that issue.

It is very nice to find that there still are people in this race that seem to have views that are in agreement with my own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I think what that one moment showed me was the true measure of the man...

Huntsman came forth and spoke the words that I think needed saying.

I have members of my family that have went off to serve this country in Iraq over the last few years.
I enjoyed hearing Huntsman's views that serving this country, even if you might disagree with it or not, is the most important thing a patriotic American can do.


How sad to hear a Republican say what I heard said against Huntsman's ability of looking past ideology and only asking, "What can I do?"


Serving the United States when the President calls you and tells you that "The country needs you" is an thing that is a credit to any American.

Im proud to say I find much in agreement with Huntsman's views on that issue.

It is very nice to find that there still are people in this race that seem to have views that are in agreement with my own.

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It is another thing to serve---it is another thing to defend the policies of this failed administration which you implemented when you served.

This morning Drudge had Mitt at 39% as i write this.

The 39% is very close to the 40% I talked about was key to this election's future, so I should now go back and see what my projections were that I made about such an outcome?,
and what I also projected this means for the people in the race going into SC?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mitt's goal in NH?

To win, and win big!

Mitt needs to totally destroy all the rest of the field in NH.
This will cause all the sources of money to all the other people left in the race to dry up.

This would also give Mitt a very good chance to go into SC and win there too.

................"

So to make this as painless as he can, Mitt needs to win in NH next week, and win big.

Mitt needs to win big to be able to sweep into Sc and have that State not become a problem for him.

right now, Rick is just praying to get enough money to make a "last stand " in SC.
Rick known that his only real chance of overcoming Mitt's lead in this election is to beat Mitt in SC.

If Rick can win SC he can force this game into extras innings and perhaps all the way to the convention.

So this is why Mitt really needs to destroy the whole rest of the field in NH.
A big victory for Mitt in NH next week will be the signal that he is unstoppable, and that any money given to the other guy is a pointless.

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I wrote the above what seems like a year ago, but was really just last week...LOL

My idea at the time is that Mitt needed to win big to stop Rick, and that seems to have went just as I was talking about.

Rick's downfall came in the last debate that happened after I wrote the above quote, and going out of that debate Rick lost his position in the race to Jon and Paul.

Jon and Paul came out of the last debate on fire, and it really did spark their supporters to get out their vote.

At this point I have projected that this outcome for Mitt and near 40% will cause all the money to suddenly dry up for all the people in the race.
Republicans dont like to bet on a lame horse, and right now the field looks full of horses that dont have a chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

In a very real way, Rick's "Last Stand" is going to be SC.
That is the only chance Rick has in this election...
Does Rick have to win in SC?.....yes

On a side note...even if Rick does lose in SC, he needs to yet make a strong showing to force Mitt to late pick him as the VP.

.

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What would have to happen right now is for people to cut a few deals and get others to drop out of the race before SC.

Rick has positioned himself to really be the go-to guy for Mitt to pick if he needs a VP that can draw the conservatives.
I think that over the last few days when it was clear that Rick was sinking fast in the polls that Rick started to change his direction, and started to act like a guy applying for the VP ***.

I believe in the next few days Rick will receive a call from Mitt about dropping out and swinging his supporters over to Mitt.

This morning I find that Ron Paul is already demanding that everyone that finished lower than he did drop out.....
So that part of my projections going out of NH have proved true.

But as I write this on the morning after the NH primary so far none have agreed to drop out of the race.

Someone has to drop out in the next few days...

Right now the pack of lower names in the race are all pinning their last hope on SC and its silly for all of them to try to make their "Last Stand" there...

Too many names to vote for in SC make it look like a bunch of fools all stuck in a doorway when they all tried to go though at the same time...LOL

The field has to get smaller in the next few days....

I expect Perry to drop out in a few hours.
I expect Rick and Newt to spend the rest of this week attempting to justify their going on with the lower number coming out of NH....

However I also expect both Newt and Rick to run out of money in the next week.
I have read on-line that both Rick and Newt saved a lot of their remaining cash to spend in one final shot in SC....and this will be tempting for both of them to do.

However I also expect that both Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul will be very direct both on the phone and in speeches over the next few days that Rick and Newt should drop out...


we shall see....

Newt ......Newt on the other hand seems aimed at doing a little pay-back before he drops out.

Newt...well, Newt in his anger has decided to become a democrat and portray "business" as the enemy.

Newt is destroying his last thread of reputation in the Republican world and I wonder if he will then swing to the other side in name as well.

One thing you have to say for Newt....

Newt does know how to live off the land in the political field.

All of the attention in the lest few days before NH voted was all centered around Newt's attacks against Mitt.

I watched CNN before the vote and the only time they showed a clip of Mitt is when he was responding to Newt's words.

One thing for sure, Newt knows how to counter-punch.



However in the real world...
In the real world Newt is getting a lot of calls to drop out of the race today.
What would help Newt get out is if there was someone else that Newt could stand by and fully support. The trouble is that right now that's a lot to ask of anyone.

Mitt wants Newt to stay in the race until after SC votes next week. But Ron Paul wants Newt out so bad he may be tempted to say what he needs to say to get Newt to step aside.

The weird thing I have noticed is that Perry and Bachman have not been pushed to endorse anyone yet.
I felt sure that both of them would try to play their only card that have left before the others start to get out.

we shall see....

Now today i read that Newt is going to make an appearence with a Dem at some stort of "houseing" function.

I think this has all the makings of a truly big media event....perhaps the biggest media event of the election so far.

By sending this message, Newt is actually applying to become the voice of the "Occupy Movement" should Mitt get elected.
We shall have to see how this works out.
But I think Newt sees the handwriting on the wall, and knows that the "Occupy movement" was kept in check only because the big money behind it were all Dems, and that if Mitt gets into the White House the chains will come off that dog.

I think Newt thinks it will be a lot better to be the most well known voice to speak out against a President Mitt, rather than getting the call only a few times to come on TV to defend Mitt's programs.