God as Spirit or flesh and bone

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

And not only took on, but still has:

Luke24:39--"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

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Which is what I have already said. Right?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

And not only took on, but still has:

Luke24:39--"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

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If you believe that the Father and the Son have physical bodies that are exactly like yours but in a perfected state how can they be omnipresent?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
And not only took on, but still has:

Luke24:39--"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Which is what I have already said. Right?

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Right. And which I have asked you and other faith alone here-----if Jesus Christ has a Body of flesh and bones--and God the Father is Spirit only--


Is the Trinity God flesh and Bone--or just a Spirit?


If the Father and the Son are made up of two different substances--then how do you explain the "****ousious"(same substance) God?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Is the Trinity God flesh and Bone--or just a Spirit?

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Did you miss my answer to this question which I have already post multiple times now?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

There is one God in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Son has a resurrected body.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

If the Father and the Son are made up of two different substances--then how do you explain the "****ousious"(same substance) God?

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I have already answered this questions multiple times as well did you miss all my posts or perhaps are you not remembering them?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Jesus is equally God. BTW this term is not used in the Bible but I am sure you already knew that.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
If the Father and the Son are made up of two different substances--then how do you explain the "****ousious"(same substance) God?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

I have already answered this questions multiple times as well did you miss all my posts or perhaps are you not remembering them?

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
Jesus is equally God. BTW this term is not used in the Bible but I am sure you already knew that.

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Could you explain how Jesus being equally God somehow explains how He possesses a body of flesh and bone--and the faith alone state that God the Father is a Spirit only--and they form the "****ousious"(same substance) God?

How does your answer touch upon how they are, together, the same substance, as the Trinity God?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you explain how Jesus being equally God somehow explains how He possesses a body of flesh and bone--and the faith alone state that God the Father is a Spirit only--and they form the "****ousious"(same substance) God?

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Sure. I have told you multiple times now. The term is used to show that Jesus is equally God. BTW this term is not found in the Bible so I never use it because it confuses people like you. The whole point is that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity and has been eternally God from everlasting to everlasting. This is in conflict with the cults because the cults bring down Jesus in some way. The Mormns bring Jesus down by saying that he has not always been God and that he was begotten and born to a heavenly mother just like you and me. In essence bringing Jesus down to our level which of course is heresy. Hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--are you saying that God is flesh and bone--or just a Spirit?

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God is ALWAYs spirit.....always......always and always...

and for our salvation God wrapped himself in flesh and blood and was made man so that he might die for our sin.

God was, is and will always be spirit!

But God became flesh and blood so he could die.

Right now Jesus was raised in a human body of flesh and bone and will have this same body forever.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

God is ALWAYs spirit.....always......always and always...

and for our salvation God wrapped himself in flesh and blood and was made man so that he might die for our sin.

God was, is and will always be spirit!

But God became flesh and blood so he could die.

Right now Jesus was raised in a human body of flesh and bone and will have this same body forever.

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Please tell us what the Bible says spirit is. Only what it is not what it isn't. You claim that God is spirit, but what have you said really? Does the Bible tell you what spirit is? Can you define what spirit by using the Bible? Please, tell us what the Bible says spirit is.

Marvin

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Please tell us what the Bible says spirit is. Only what it is not what it isn't. You claim that God is spirit, but what have you said really? Does the Bible tell you what spirit is? Can you define what spirit by using the Bible? Please, tell us what the Bible says spirit is.

Marvin

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What don't you understand about 'spirit has not flesh and bones?' Just because YOU can't understand what it means, does not make it a false teaching. A spirit is intangible.

Please show us where the bible says God has a body. Give us the chapter and verse(s) Can you tell us why we can't see God? If God has a body, then why must he be worshiped only in spirit?

Please discuss Mormonism. I'll be waiting...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Please tell us what the Bible says spirit is....

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As far as I know the Bible does not try to compare the Spirit to anything made.
The Spirit is not like anything we see around us in creation.

But we do have a few terms that the Bible does ***ociate wih the term "Spirit"

The Bible tells us that "God is spirit", but then it also says that when we worship God we must do so in "spirit and in Truth"

So from this we see that there is a strong connection between the Bible's use of the term "spirit" and the word "truth"

To this I would add that not only does the Bible tell us that "God is spirit" but it also tells us that "God is Love", and then goes on to describe what love is > "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud."

So that is how we see the Bible describing God.

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Originally Posted by glm1978

[B]Please show us where the bible says God has a body. Give us the chapter and verse:

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WELL.... the Bible does talk about the Lord's wings.......

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Originally Posted by glm1978

What don't you understand about 'spirit has not flesh and bones?' Just because YOU can't understand what it means, does not make it a false teaching. A spirit is intangible.

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I understand what Christ told the apostles after his resurrection quite clearly. But I also know that spirit is not a dog nor a cat. But how does that help us understand what spirit really is? Do you know of a Bilblical definition of what spirit is? Please share.

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Please show us where the bible says God has a body. Give us the chapter and verse(s) Can you tell us why we can't see God? If God has a body, then why must he be worshiped only in spirit?

Please discuss Mormonism. I'll be waiting...:rolleyes:

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Lets see. Christ has a body. He is God. How many Gods do you believe in? Only one, I expect. So that means that God is not just spirit but has a body. Or don't you believe in the resurrection? If you don't, how can you claim to be a Christian if you don't believe in the resurrection?

Do I really need to quote scripture to prove that Christ has a body? You didn't quote scripture when you referred to Christ's statement that he had flesh and bones but I knew what you were referring to. So do I need to quote scripture to show that Christ has a body?

You can't see me but I know I exist. Do you doubt that?

Marvin

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

As far as I know the Bible does not try to compare the Spirit to anything made.

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Logical fallacy: Argument from Silence. Point is null and void.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The Spirit is not like anything we see around us in creation.

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Another logical fallacy: You are arguing from a false premise, which would be the first statement. You continue to argue falsely.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

But we do have a few terms that the Bible does ***ociate with the term "Spirit"

The Bible tells us that "God is spirit", but then it also says that when we worship God we must do so in "spirit and in Truth"

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Using the word in the definition is not a valid definition. You cannot define salt as tasting salty.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

So from this we see that there is a strong connection between the Bible's use of the term "spirit" and the word "truth"

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Irrelevant. That does not give us a definition of spirit.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

To this I would add that not only does the Bible tell us that "God is spirit" but it also tells us that "God is Love", and then goes on to describe what love is > "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud."

So that is how we see the Bible describing God.

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But nothing of what you have said helps us to understand what spirit is. You have deflected and attempted to becloud the issue but have not shown us any Biblical definition of what spirit is. We are as ******** now and we were before I asked the question.

Marvin

Everything I always say can be supported by the Bible...thus Im limited to the text alone for my answers...

If you find me saying something that is not found in the Bible let me know....

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Everything I always say can be supported by the Bible...thus Im limited to the text alone for my answers...

If you find me saying something that is not found in the Bible let me know....

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Does this mean that you will never know what spirit is from the Bible?

Marvin

PS Seems that if God is spirit as you claim, and the Bible doesn't tell you what spirit is, then does that mean that you don't really know what God is?

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Does this mean that you will never know what spirit is from the Bible?

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It means that I can invent all kinds of things on my own.
I can pull tons of ideas out of a hat and claim that each is "truth"

But only the ideas of mine that are in agreement with the Bible are actually true....

Therefore if Im asked a question or challenged on a teaching, my answer has to be centered around the simple text of the Bible.


This is the example we see when Jesus was challenged in the wilderness and always answered with scripture.



So what the Bible tells us is the truth...even if it is not worded in a way that we would have liked.
For example, we dont really know anything about how Jesus looked.
He is my Lord and my God, yet the bible does not tell us anything about his looks.....

So while I worship the Lord truly, I cant be asked to discribe him from the text alone, because I only have the text to use in my answer, and the text in many, many places does not seem all that interested in the silly questions men have asked over the last 2000 years

God is Spirit, and when i die my body is put into the ground and my spirit goes to the Lord who gave it.....
But dont ask me the question "What does your spirit look like?" because i cant answer that from the Text....

so to review...

god is spirit, always was, always will be.
But for our salvation, the Son was wrapped in flesh and born as a man.

Understand the Son was, is now, and will always be God.

and Understand that the son was, is now and will always be spirit.

But for our salvation he was made man and wrapped in the flesh of mortal man so he could die.

Jesus was borm of mary is a human body of flesh and blood.
He died, and was truly as dead as all human get who die.
And Jesus was raised to life in an everlasting body of flesh and bone.

This is the first example of what will one day happen to all who believe.
We will die in these tents of flesh and blood, and be raised to new life in everlasting bodies of flesh and bone....

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

I understand what Christ told the apostles after his resurrection quite clearly. But I also know that spirit is not a dog nor a cat. But how does that help us understand what spirit really is? Do you know of a Bilblical definition of what spirit is? Please share.



Lets see. Christ has a body. He is God. How many Gods do you believe in? Only one, I expect. So that means that God is not just spirit but has a body. Or don't you believe in the resurrection? If you don't, how can you claim to be a Christian if you don't believe in the resurrection?

Do I really need to quote scripture to prove that Christ has a body? You didn't quote scripture when you referred to Christ's statement that he had flesh and bones but I knew what you were referring to. So do I need to quote scripture to show that Christ has a body?

You can't see me but I know I exist. Do you doubt that?

Marvin

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Spirit is a supernatural, incorporeal being without a body.(without material existence) Christ was always with God as John 1 testifies of, and was God. When Christ came to earth as a man in order to die for our sins he had to have a body, or else he could not die. How many times does Jesus have to say: "I and the Father are one"? "Before Abraham was, I AM" "I AM the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." God told Moses: "I AM the I AM."

I see that Christ now having a body is a stumbling block for the lds. It does not mean that Jesus is now an exalted man. He is still GOD. This is why angels worship him which would be blasphemy if He was not God. This is why your knee and mine will bow and confess Christ as LORD. Do not limit God. God said He is NOT a man. Never was. The bible tells us: "In the beginning God." NOT: "In the beginning man."

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

I understand what Christ told the apostles after his resurrection quite clearly. But I also know that spirit is not a dog nor a cat. But how does that help us understand what spirit really is? Do you know of a Bilblical definition of what spirit is? Please share.



Lets see. Christ has a body. He is God. How many Gods do you believe in? Only one, I expect. So that means that God is not just spirit but has a body. Or don't you believe in the resurrection? If you don't, how can you claim to be a Christian if you don't believe in the resurrection?

Do I really need to quote scripture to prove that Christ has a body? You didn't quote scripture when you referred to Christ's statement that he had flesh and bones but I knew what you were referring to. So do I need to quote scripture to show that Christ has a body?

You can't see me but I know I exist. Do you doubt that?

Marvin

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The LDS believes that God has a body of flesh and bone in order to substantiate Joseph Smith's so-called first vision. John 4:24 claims God is a spirit (lit. God is Spirit). Even Smith at one time taught God the Father was a personage of spirit (Lectures on Faith, Lecture Fifth).

And so you have answered many questions that I nevered asked. Can we please stick to the questions that I have asked?

Marvin

PS. The question is, what is the Biblical defintion of what spirit is!

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

It means that I can invent all kinds of things on my own.
I can pull tons of ideas out of a hat and claim that each is "truth"

But only the ideas of mine that are in agreement with the Bible are actually true....

Therefore if Im asked a question or challenged on a teaching, my answer has to be centered around the simple text of the Bible.


This is the example we see when Jesus was challenged in the wilderness and always answered with scripture.



So what the Bible tells us is the truth...even if it is not worded in a way that we would have liked.
For example, we dont really know anything about how Jesus looked.
He is my Lord and my God, yet the bible does not tell us anything about his looks.....

So while I worship the Lord truly, I cant be asked to discribe him from the text alone, because I only have the text to use in my answer, and the text in many, many places does not seem all that interested in the silly questions men have asked over the last 2000 years

God is Spirit, and when i die my body is put into the ground and my spirit goes to the Lord who gave it.....
But dont ask me the question "What does your spirit look like?" because i cant answer that from the Text....

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

Spirit is a supernatural, incorporeal being without a body.(without material existence)

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How do you know this is true? Do you have Biblical support for these statements? If not, how do you know that these statements are true?

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

Christ was always with God as John 1 testifies of, and was God.

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It also says that he was with God. So who is this God that Christ is with?

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

When Christ came to earth as a man in order to die for our sins he had to have a body, or else he could not die.

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Agreed. But there is one other things. His Father had to be God the True God or else his death on the cross would not have been voluntary.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

How many times does Jesus have to say: "I and the Father are one"?

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But he does not say that he and the Father are the same essence. (This bit of nonsense was created by Greek philosophers posing as Christians.) Only that they are one. God also says that a man and a woman will become one flesh? Does that mean that they become one essence? How is this any different than what Christ said?

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

"Before Abraham was, I AM" "I AM the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." God told Moses: "I AM the I AM."

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I have always taught that from the Fall onward, the only God that man had any dealings with was Christ. These verses, even though you gave no reference so we could check them, imply the same thing.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

I see that Christ now having a body is a stumbling block for the lds.

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Absolutely not. It is you who claim to worship only one God but your God exists in two different states at the same time, both with a body and as spirit only. The stumbling block is yours, my path is clear.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

It does not mean that Jesus is now an exalted man.

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Why then are we told over and over by the likes of you, that Christ was 100% man and 100% God? If Christ was man at one point, then it is obvious that he is now an exalted man, exalted by God the Father.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

He is still GOD.

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Never said otherwise.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

This is why angels worship him which would be blasphemy if He was not God.

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Or when John, in Revelation, tries to worship an angel as Christ and is forbidden?

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

This is why your knee and mine will bow and confess Christ as LORD. Do not limit God. God said He is NOT a man.

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Again no supporting scripture. But if you will examine the scripture that you are referencing, you will find that it is talking the character of God and not whether God has a body or not. You are misusing this scripture. In other words, wresting the scripture.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

Never was.

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Doesn't say that. You are arguing from silence now and that makes your argument null and void.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

The bible tells us: "In the beginning God." NOT: "In the beginning man."

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Of course it doesn't. God had to be God to create the earth. But if you really want to examine the scripture, it really says, "In the beginning, the Gods". Elohim is plural and that is the word that is usually translated as God.

Marvin

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Originally Posted by glm1978

The LDS believes that God has a body of flesh and bone in order to substantiate Joseph Smith's so-called first vision. John 4:24 claims God is a spirit (lit. God is Spirit). Even Smith at one time taught God the Father was a personage of spirit (Lectures on Faith, Lecture Fifth).

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And you don't understand your cut/paste of this claim. If you read the whole lecture you would be making this false statements.

And no we don't believe this becuase of the first vision. We believe it because God has revealed it. And the Bible clearly teaches it.

The Bible states that Christ has a body of flesh and bone. Christ is God isn't he? Or do you believe otherwise? Therefore, since Christ is God, even you have to believe that God has a body.

Marvin

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

PS. The question is, what is the Biblical definition of what spirit is!

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"wind, or breath" would be the simple translation of the bible's term.

from there you have to study the wider context of how the term appears in a sentence, and how it is to be understood in that given context....(as with any word you are studying)


For example, the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity....equal in nature to person of the Father or the Son....

Back in my time in Bible school, I learned that one of the ways to understand the Holy Spirit is to think if "God's breathing....God's outgoing Word...

Now in some Christians schools they hold that man is made up of 3 parts..."Body, Soul, and Spirit"
I have looked at this idea and come to the point where I just believe that men are basicly 2 things....we are flesh and we are Soul/Spirits...

The flesh is part of the earth, and this we share with all other things from the earth like rocks and birds and fish and trees.

The Spirit/or Soul of man is that part of us that is given by God and has nothing to do with how things are evolved and arrived at in creation.

Now, we have to always also keep in mind that men have learned a lot more about how the human body works than we did 1000s of years ago.
We no longer believe that just because you might sneeze that you may have lost your Spirit "God Bless You!"

So while early man looked at the big difference between a dead person and a living person, "(breathing") and came up with the idea that in some way 'air' was the 'life" , and this led to all kinds of religious teachings.....We need to just make sure we understand that such terms in the Bible like "wind" and "breath" are mostly symbolic in many contexts....this is how I look at the statement by the mom of Jesus when she talked about both her 'soul" and her 'spirit"

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

"wind, or breath" would be the simple translation of the bible's term.

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Those would be similes not definitions.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

from there you have to study the wider context of how the term appears in a sentence, and how it is to be understood in that given context....(as with any word you are studying)

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Again, I am looking for you to provide a Biblical defintion, not guess work based on how a word is used. All that will tell is how the word is used, it will not tell you what spirit is.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

For example, the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity....equal in nature to person of the Father or the Son....

Back in my time in Bible school, I learned that one of the ways to understand the Holy Spirit is to think if "God's breathing....God's outgoing Word...

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Again, similes not definitions.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now in some Christians schools they hold that man is made up of 3 parts..."Body, Soul, and Spirit"
I have looked at this idea and come to the point where I just believe that men are basicly 2 things....we are flesh and we are Soul/Spirits...

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Again, Biblical definitions not guesses or speculations.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The flesh is part of the earth, and this we share with all other things from the earth like rocks and birds and fish and trees.

The Spirit/or Soul of man is that part of us that is given by God and has nothing to do with how things are evolved and arrived at in creation.

Now, we have to always also keep in mind that men have learned a lot more about how the human body works than we did 1000s of years ago.
We no longer believe that just because you might sneeze that you may have lost your Spirit "God Bless You!"

So while early man looked at the big difference between a dead person and a living person, "(breathing") and came up with the idea that in some way 'air' was the 'life" , and this led to all kinds of religious teachings.....We need to just make sure we understand that such terms in the Bible like "wind" and "breath" are mostly symbolic in many contexts....this is how I look at the statement by the mom of Jesus when she talked about both her 'soul" and her 'spirit"

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Sorry, but you haven't given us a Biblical defintion of any kind. All I see are similes based on guesswork. Is that considered Biblical?

How about giving us the Biblical definition?

Marvin

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Those would be similes not definitions.



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as far as I remember , this is the definition of the term "Spirit" i.e., "pneuma"

I remember that from Bible school!...LOL

It is the base word for our word pneumatic.

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Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

How about giving us the Biblical definition?

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That is, the word is the same basic word for what we translate as "breath" or for "wind"...and perhaps "air"...

This is why Jesus at John 3:8 compares the spirit to the wind.

"The wind ****s wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

The connection between the 'wind" and the 'spirit" that Jesus taught is clearly indicated in the Text.

Thus this is not only the Bible's definition, it is our Lord's as well.....

The spirit of the Lord (Holy Spirit) is God's breath, his words spoken, the divine wind (kamikaze)

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

God is ALWAYs spirit.....always......always and always...

and for our salvation God wrapped himself in flesh and blood and was made man so that he might die for our sin.

God was, is and will always be spirit!

But God became flesh and blood so he could die.

Right now Jesus was raised in a human body of flesh and bone and will have this same body forever.

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Well--that brings a question. When you state "God" here--are you referring to God the Son--or God the Father?

You have God the Son as flesh and bone. Is God the Father the same substance?

If not--could you explain the "****ousios" (same substance) God of the Trinitarian creeds?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

You have God the Son as flesh and bone. Is God the Father the same substance?

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The son of God is just as much "God" as the faher is "God"

The son is just as much pure "spirit" as the father is...

But the difference is that the Son is also fully man too.
The son became man, but never stopped being pure Spirit.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post----Well--that brings a question. When you state "God" here--are you referring to God the Son--or God the Father?

You have God the Son as flesh and bone. Is God the Father the same substance?

If not--could you explain the "****ousios" (same substance) God of the Trinitarian creeds?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The son of God is just as much "God" as the faher is "God"

The son is just as much pure "spirit" as the father is...

But the difference is that the Son is also fully man too.
The son became man, but never stopped being pure Spirit.

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But 'pure spirit" does not touch upon the point of why the Trinitarians have God the Son as flesh and bone--and the Father as a Spirit only.

The "****ousious"(same substance) God of the creeds declare they are of the same substance.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

.....

The "****ousious"(same substance) God of the creeds declare they are of the same substance.

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Yes, the father is not more "god" that the Son is 'god"

Both the Father and the Son are equal in nature, for their nature is the one eternal God.

So the Father is pure spirit and the Son is pure spirit.
But so that he could suffer death on the cross, the Son was born as a human.

But in being made a man the Son did not give up being God.
The Son always is God.
Thus the Son is always pure spirit like the father and so they are in unity of "substance' at all times.

So this is why Christians believe that Jesus Christ has TWO NATURES.....
Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man.

Jesus is in unity with on the substance issue with the Father forever
and Jesus is in unity with me on the substance issue as both Jesus and I are fully human.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post-----But 'pure spirit" does not touch upon the point of why the Trinitarians have God the Son as flesh and bone--and the Father as a Spirit only.

The "****ousious"(same substance) God of the creeds declare they are of the same substance.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Yes, the father is not more "god" that the Son is 'god"

Both the Father and the Son are equal in nature, for their nature is the one eternal God.

So the Father is pure spirit and the Son is pure spirit.
But so that he could suffer death on the cross, the Son was born as a human.

But in being made a man the Son did not give up being God.
The Son always is God.
Thus the Son is always pure spirit like the father and so they are in unity of "substance' at all times.

So this is why Christians believe that Jesus Christ has TWO NATURES.....
Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man.

Jesus is in unity with on the substance issue with the Father forever
and Jesus is in unity with me on the substance issue as both Jesus and I are fully human.

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Still does not explain why the Bible has Jesus as flesh and bone, and the Creeds have both the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as the "****ousious"(same substance) God.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Still does not explain why the Bible has Jesus as flesh and bone, and the Creeds have both the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as the "****ousious"(same substance) God.

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Yes, the father the son and the HS are the same in their 'god-ness"

They have the same nature....their nature is God./
None is more 'god" than the other.

The father, the son and the HS are all equal in nature.

thus they have the same "substance" when speaking of their god-nature.

and jesus was born flesh and blood.

Jesus still is always pure spirit, when talking about his nature as God.

but he now also was born as flesh and blood.

he is called "The man Christ Jesus"

So the Bible is very clear in that Jesus is fully human (flesh) in addition to being fully God, (spirit)





So to review....
Jesus is like me in that we share the same substance, and that substance is our human nature of flesh.

Jesus is like the father in that they share the same substance, and that substance is pure spirit.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Still does not explain why the Bible has Jesus as flesh and bone, and the Creeds have both the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as the "****ousious"(same substance) God.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Yes, the father the son and the HS are the same in their 'god-ness"

They have the same nature....their nature is God./
None is more 'god" than the other.

The father, the son and the HS are all equal in nature.

thus they have the same "substance" when speaking of their god-nature.

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Do you consider "god-nature" a substance?

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Do you consider "god-nature" a substance?

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Im not sure....

I think in the context of my answer I am thinking that one way to understand this issue is to make sure you understand that the "substance" of god...(Whatever you wish to call it) is shared in equal measure by the father, the son and the HS.

This means that whatever you think the father's naure is, the son and the HS share this in equal measure.

none is more 'god" that the others.

None is less "god" than the others.


if one is Spirit, then all are spirit in equal nature....and their nature is God.

So to review:

jesus is pure spirit, having the same substance as the father in his nature as god.

Jesus is "flesh and bone" now because he is a resurrected human.

Jesus had a body of flesh and blood when he was conceived in the womb of Mary.
This body died later on a cross.

This deals only with the HUMAN nature of christ, but we always have to keep in mind that Jesus also have a God-nature too.

Thus Jesus has two natures at the same time.

He is of one substance with the father, and>
he is fully Human as with us.

this is a basic teaching of the bible, as such it is important to me that if you have some doubts about the concept, or would like to go over some questions, that you go ahead and ask whatever is on your mind...

ask

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Im not sure....

I think in the context of my answer I am thinking that one way to understand this issue is to make sure you understand that the "substance" of god...(Whatever you wish to call it) is shared in equal measure by the father, the son and the HS.

This means that whatever you think the father's naure is, the son and the HS share this in equal measure.

none is more 'god" that the others.

None is less "god" than the others.

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Again--the only way I connect "nature" with substance, is when one is referring to a physical cons***ution.

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if one is Spirit, then all are spirit in equal nature....and their nature is God.

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Then by a like standard--if one has a body of flesh and bone--then all have the same?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Again--the only way I connect "nature" with substance, is when one is referring to a physical cons***ution.

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the word "substance" depends a lot on how you mean the word?...how you have set up the fuller contex?

So when talking about the nature of "God" we would say that his substance is Pure spirit.

Or pure love.
or pure truth.

But mostly in this context I would say that the substance of God is spirit.