I can't see any Mormons here answering any questions. Who is the moderator of this site
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I can't see any Mormons here answering any questions. Who is the moderator of this site
have something* for one of the Mods to deal with?
(*aside from looking into the issue of the insulting ***le of this topic?)
i have a bit of busy day planned here today....but when i did check on the newer posts on our forum there did seem like a lot of bickering....and little talking about people think...just a lot of what the "other guy" is like....
Look at this guys very first post. He spends it insulting Mormons (morons) and then asks why nobody takes things serious here...... I mean, I'll never take this guys serious ever again.Quote:
Par for the course.
when I check his number of his posts?......I count "1"
So based on this vast experience he has come to the conclusion that things need to change around here...
Quote:
Came back just to answer this from you.....YES!! there needs to be some major changes around here! A shame Jill doesn't keep better tabs on this site because it seems to be running around like a chicken with its head off....anything goes it seems.
We all had to join at one time and yeah, one post to get ourselves going. This new member joined just today, and you get on this new member? I welcome them and any comments they may offer.
So.... You welcomed his comment that Mormons are morons?Quote:
Came back just to answer this from you.....YES!! there needs to be some major changes around here! A shame Jill doesn't keep better tabs on this site because it seems to be running around like a chicken with its head off....anything goes it seems.
We all had to join at one time and yeah, one post to get ourselves going. This new member joined just today, and you get on this new member? I welcome them and any comments they may offer.
it just think that " morons" is a poitless attack...it is against the rules....shows a lack of cl***...And is bad manners.
and yes....im going to watching this new member closely....for they have already gotten off to bad start and if they think they can keepn getting away with name-calling they are in for trouble.
Kinda of an age give-away too.Quote:
it just think that " morons" is a poitless attack...it is against the rules....shows a lack of cl***...And is bad manners.
and yes....im going to watching this new member closely....for they have already gotten off to bad start and if they think they can keepn getting away with name-calling they are in for trouble.
Ok questions.. One I have been asking since I first signed on here.. How many God are there for this world? Is the Father a separate God from Jesus, Is Jesus a God at all? Is the Holy (Ghost) Spirit God, Is He God at all?Quote:
Here are a few more..
Have all men sinned? If it isn't our nature to sin why is it that everyone sins? How do we, or how does God deal with our sin? If it was enough for Jesus to sweat so profusely that the sweat dripped off Him as though it were great drops of blood why did he have to die at all? Or does forgiveness of sin required actual blood to be shed and thereby require His death?
Does God have the power to create anything or is he just a good builder? Why is it that mormonism believes that the elements are eternal but God isn't? While the elements always existed as the elements, God didn't always exist as God.. Is that true? If Not why did Joseph Smith tell us that He would explain how God became God and that once He was a man just like Jesus but on a different world..
Are we saved by God's grace through faith and not by works? If works are required to gain salvation just how many works are needed to be preformed to reach the minimum amount of works required for salvation?
These same questions have been asked many times and yet no one has offered an answer that has any Biblical authority behind the answers.. Want to try again? I have been waiting for years I'll bet I wait even longer.. IHS jim
He will be told to knock off the insults and stay inside the examination of the teachings of mormonism.. Still the LDS here will take exception to the non personal examination of the doctrines that are uniquely mormon. IHS jim
I don't recall saying I welcomed his rude comment, did I? I did say I welcomed this person, (don't know if it is a man or woman), we can always use some new members here. If alan wants to report this person, he can do so. Whether this new member will post again, I don't know but the thread could have been worded more politely of course. Then again, sorry to say, I have a brother who I would definitely say is a moron and claims to be a Mormon when he's never attended church since he was 17, he's now almost 63.
I've longed for an answer to this question. How much good works must a Mormon do to know that their salvation is in the bag? I once asked my Dad but he never had an answer for me. He always thought I was stupid especially since I was only a girl.Quote:
Ok questions.. One I have been asking since I first signed on here.. How many God are there for this world? Is the Father a separate God from Jesus, Is Jesus a God at all? Is the Holy (Ghost) Spirit God, Is He God at all?
Here are a few more..
Have all men sinned? If it isn't our nature to sin why is it that everyone sins? How do we, or how does God deal with our sin? If it was enough for Jesus to sweat so profusely that the sweat dripped off Him as though it were great drops of blood why did he have to die at all? Or does forgiveness of sin required actual blood to be shed and thereby require His death?
Does God have the power to create anything or is he just a good builder? Why is it that mormonism believes that the elements are eternal but God isn't? While the elements always existed as the elements, God didn't always exist as God.. Is that true? If Not why did Joseph Smith tell us that He would explain how God became God and that once He was a man just like Jesus but on a different world..
Are we saved by God's grace through faith and not by works? If works are required to gain salvation just how many works are needed to be preformed to reach the minimum amount of works required for salvation?
These same questions have been asked many times and yet no one has offered an answer that has any Biblical authority behind the answers.. Want to try again? I have been waiting for years I'll bet I wait even longer.. IHS jim
I'd be a moron if I tried to answer that question. However this question will remain un-answered along with how many mormon gods are there out there in the universe?
And I'm sure I have answered every one of them. The fact that you don't like the answer does not mean they haven't been answered for you.Quote:
One
Yes, yes, yes and yes... Just like your Trinity doctrine states.Quote:
The only difference is that we can explain how this is possible... You can not because "ignorance is bliss" for some.
No
Because they choose to follow their physical nature instead of our divine nature.
Two ways; either with Judgment or Mercy depending on us and our free agency.
Now you are "questioning" instead of "asking a question" You are looking to see if my answer will match yours because you think you already know the answer. My answer is simply that I don't know why specifically Christ had to die at all, or that blood was necessary to be spilt, other than to say that it had to happen. Even Christ asked His Father if there was another way.Quote:
What's the difference?Quote:
there you go again... "Questioning" instead of "asking your question"Quote:
However so you can not claim that you have not been answered I must inform you that all things are eternal especially God.
It's only a matter of what form.
See answer above.Quote:
I don't know? I guess you'll have to ask the person who recorded his remarks, and then ask Joseph Smith. But if He was "just like Jesus" then He still would have been God.Quote:
Yes
All of them!Quote:
As you can see, I had no problem with them
Yes, you did.
Here is exactly what you said
"I welcome them and any comments they may offer"
By "more politely of course" I guessing you mean it was Ok to call us morons, he just should have used a word like, "mentally challenged"Quote:
if that was true, then anyone with true mental deficiencies will be automatically saved in the Celestial Kingdom wether he attended church or not.
All works that you are capable of fulfilling and that you have knowledge of will be required of you for your salvation.Quote:
Now, do you really want me to answer this one as well?:D
You stated it correctly.... Faith Alone was built on man's knowledge because mankind is lazy.Quote:
Don't let yourself be caught without oil in your lamp when you are called to meet him.
Really.. So just what can a man do gto bring about his own salvatkon in gthe highest heaven of God? What is it that you think will make you worthy? There are beautiful church houses all over the USA that took a lot of work to build? Doing so just to have a place for the Church to gather doesn't sound to lazy to me.. There are Church supported mission across the world. They teach the truth as it is found in the Bible. they offer medical care, they educate and feed the locals. No one is excluded because they are poor or orphaned. Again I ask where in the laziness.. The people the Church sends into the world to be Her hands receive their daily bread and little else, and yet they struggle to gain acceptance into a ministry to do the work.. Lazy? Are you sure you know what the word means?Quote:
Christians then aren't lazy they know what they can do and what must be left to the grace of God through faith in Jesus.. The question here is why don't you and your church leaders know these things? IHS jim
Quote:
I want answers. NE asked only how many good works/ ordinances as a minimum one must do to receive salvation. You are afraid of me and most likely have me blocked.. You will never see the question Christian have been asking the LDS here to answer from day one.. IHS jim
I am sorry for you then for my salvation doesn't require me to do good works, for there is NOTHING I could do that would ever be acceptable to God."But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteous acts are as filthy rags....." Isaiah 64:6Quote:
Do you know what it means by, "filthy rags?" Not to gross anyone out but it means the rags that women used in Biblical times during their time of the month. So, according to Isaiah our righteous acts are as filthy, bloody rags to God. Do we want to present him with such disgusting gifts? I don't think so. And it was due to the shed blood of Jesus Christ and my faith and trust in Him that has given me my salvation. My place with God is ***ured. Read 1 John 5:13, it is what I cling to and can trust. I pray you can too.
As for the new member and his thread. I welcome any comments he will post if he does but as I said, his thread should have been worded in a more polite way, and that does NOT mean changing his wording to mean something else as far as calling Mormons, morons. I'd appreciate you NOT ***uming what I think, thank you. And as for my brother, yes, he's a moron for he is one of the biggest hypocrites I know. He even went so far as to agree to giving a prayer at my cousins funeral, even though he admits he doesn't believe in God. What would you call such a person?
and then you go on and on..
Look, dont make us guys who did nothing wrong into the guilty party here.
neverending did NOTHING wrong.....
She correctly pointed out that I should have welcomed the new poster in addition to my pointing out his error...and she correctly pointed out that the new poster should have worded is 1st comment differently.
thats all i could hope for....
So move on.....
Thank you alan for your support, it meant a lot.Quote:
and then you go on and on..
Look, dont make us guys who did nothing wrong into the guilty party here.
neverending did NOTHING wrong.....
She correctly pointed out that I should have welcomed the new poster in addition to my pointing out his error...and she correctly pointed out that the new poster should have worded is 1st comment differently.
thats all i could hope for....
So move on.....
LOL... see what I mean....Quote:
Really.. So just what can a man do gto bring about his own salvatkon in gthe highest heaven of God? What is it that you think will make you worthy? There are beautiful church houses all over the USA that took a lot of work to build? Doing so just to have a place for the Church to gather doesn't sound to lazy to me.. There are Church supported mission across the world. They teach the truth as it is found in the Bible. they offer medical care, they educate and feed the locals. No one is excluded because they are poor or orphaned. Again I ask where in the laziness.. The people the Church sends into the world to be Her hands receive their daily bread and little else, and yet they struggle to gain acceptance into a ministry to do the work.. Lazy? Are you sure you know what the word means?
Christians then aren't lazy they know what they can do and what must be left to the grace of God through faith in Jesus.. The question here is why don't you and your church leaders know these things? IHS jim
AntiMormons don't ask questions to know answers, or understand doctrine.
They question
Then they ask rhetorical questions
Then they question one's integrity with backhanded insults
There certainly is no questioning of their motives or the spirit which drives them.
Ah... No... it might of been a Freudian Slip on her part, but she did not say the new poster should have worded their comment "differently" only "more politely".Quote:
and then you go on and on..
Look, dont make us guys who did nothing wrong into the guilty party here.
neverending did NOTHING wrong.....
She correctly pointed out that I should have welcomed the new poster in addition to my pointing out his error...and she correctly pointed out that the new poster should have worded is 1st comment differently.
thats all i could hope for....
So move on.....
It's just like JohnT getting all over my case for calling someone "silly" then turning right around and calling me "puerile" which is the nice form of "silly" as though there was a difference.
Frankly I'd rather be called silly
Problem is that your answers are not making any sense..Quote:
[theway;153864]And I'm sure I have answered every one of them. The fact that you don't like the answer does not mean they haven't been answered for you.
Really you know better then the Prophet Joseph Smith who said he saw God? He said:Quote:
One
I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)
I would think that if Smith was indeed a prophet of God his knowledge of the number of Gods that exist would be superior to yours.. I think that if you are righton this point of doctrine that you would be the president and prophet of the LDS church.. I guess to align with the teaching of Smith and his church you should have ignored Jesus and the Bible and said THREE..
The Doctrine of the Trinity never says that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings, Never does it say that they are separate Gods.. It teaches that they are separate Persons.. That the three Persons of the Trinity are the one true God.. You are telling me that that is a lie that the Bible and Jesus are liars as they teach that the Lord our God is one LORD.. Your statement shows a lack of education as to what is and is not Christian doctrine..Quote:
Yes, yes, yes and yes... Just like your Trinity doctrine states.
You are right you can explain your error by the logic of men.. I can only explain what God has said about Himself in His word. He said that there is one God who is our Lord. He said that He and no one and nothing else was ever a God in the past or in the future. To allow the thinking of mormonism to make sense of the Bible especially in this p***age additions have to be made to the p***age the wording if only in their thoughts. The phrase here must mean "For this world". Without the addition their doctrine of eternal progression is destroyed..Quote:
The only difference is that we can explain how this is possible... You can not because "ignorance is bliss" for some.
So can I explain the Trinity, YES, by what God gave us in His world that speaks to His nature.. He said that He is "Us" (Gen 1:26), Jesus is said to have been with God as well as being God in the beginning (John 1:1). Again to make it work for mormonism they add the article "a" to the meaning of the p***age.. Jesus much later describes the Father as God (John 20:17). Then after Jesus went to be with the Father, in His Kingdom, after the Promised Holy Spirit had come onto the Church, Peter calls Him God (Acts 5:3-4).. But still unless God lies, the Lord our God is one Lord.. The doctrine of the trinity retell the nature of God by what He has explained of Himself in the scripture.. You deny the scripture to believe that there are three different beings that are three Gods. Of course you believe that is incorrect and believe maybe that only the Father is God.. That would deny the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit .. It is clear that you have no idea of who and what God is..
Really.. That is just one more denial of the scripture.. You doubt me then look for yourself Romans 3:23..Quote:
No
What is this a LDS admitting that we have a physical nature? But How did we get a divine nature.. Jesus said we must be born again. We were all born the first time with a physical nature then we had to be Born Again of the Spirit and take on a spiritual nature. Remember even your BofM teaches that the natural mane is an enemy of God.. And remember Jesus said that there is a nature birth and a spiritual birth. They must happen at two different times.. So how is one born spiritually (John1:12)? Again look it up..Quote:
Because they choose to follow their physical nature instead of our divine nature.
I agree that God will bring judgment on all who reject Him but you didn't say how the "truth" teaches that we can gain Mercy.. I say that it comes by His grace through faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS so that no one, NOT ONE OF US can boast.. No Baptism, No laying on of hands, no priesthood, no endowments, no marriage.. Just faith in Jesus. You say that you believe that salvation comes as a product of God's grace through faith and then as soon as your ordinances, priesthoods, or endurance to the end are brought up you change to a 100% believer in works salvation.. Haven't you seen that Christians are 100% consistent in holding that salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing?Quote:
Two ways; either with Judgment or Mercy depending on us and our free agency.
Did I say that you or any LDS teaching aligned with what I said? I asked a fair question..Quote:
Now you are "questioning" instead of "asking a question" You are looking to see if my answer will match yours because you think you already know the answer. My answer is simply that I don't know why specifically Christ had to die at all, or that blood was necessary to be spilt, other than to say that it had to happen. Even Christ asked His Father if there was another way.
In Romans 6:23 we are told that the wages of Sin is Death. The atonement for sin requires death. If you believed the Bible you wold see that and recognize that Jesus became the sacrifice for sin.. He became sin, He who knew no sin, that we can be made the righteousness of God in Him.. Because He became sin He had to die.. See all you can learn posting here?
Yes Jesus asked if there was another way.. There wasn't and Jesus went through the wrath of God that would be poured out on Him because of the sin He represented..
The difference is do you believe God or do you doubt Him.. He explained through His Apostle that He created all things visible and invisible.. Mormonism knows better than that and calls the elements eternal when It teaches that God was NOT always God, but that He became a God through obedience to laws and ordinances.. It's not bad enough that you deny God is the absolute creator but you teach that He was the creation of another older and therefore more powerful God. That is the difference.. Again it shows the world that you doubt God through His word..Quote:
What's the difference?
Tell me then that Jesus was there with the Father as He was in His Father's Kingdom as a spirit child before He became the Savior of the mortal world His Father in heaven created. If at that time He was God just in a different form was Jesus there with Him in the form of an intelligence? He would have to be if you are willing to stand by your false doctrine.. And not just Jesus but all those who such a being would know who would also become Gods as He did.. I have often said this "It this wasn't so sad it would be funny"..Quote:
there you go again... "Questioning" instead of "asking your question"
However so you can not claim that you have not been answered I must inform you that all things are eternal especially God.
It's only a matter of what form.
Good, let me tell you I don't know how God flooded the whole earth or how He parted the Red Sea but I believe He did those things.. I don't need to wait and ask Noah or Moses. Was Smith a true prophet or a false prophet? If he was a real prophet, a true prophet then His teaching of God's nature would be true, wouldn't? It only makes sense that a true prophet would offer only truth not lies.. The meaning is straight forward, He taught that there are three Gods.. That is in conflict with the Bible..Quote:
I don't know? I guess you'll have to ask the person who recorded his remarks, and then ask Joseph Smith. But if He was "just like Jesus" then He still would have been God.
That is just what I was saying you will say that LDS doctrine agrees with the Bible, but when asked about the requirements for salvation you immediately revert to works based salvation.. You are making my point very clearly..Quote:
Yes
All of them!
You have no problem with stateing the man invented doctrines but I noticed that other than a a yes and no you had nothing in your post that could be supported Biblically.. IHS jimQuote:
As you can see, I had no problem with them
What's funny is that you have jumped to this verse so many times that you probably never read the verse that precedes it, because you are exactly supposed to meet and present your God with your good and righteous works.Quote:
I am sorry for you then for my salvation doesn't require me to do good works, for there is NOTHING I could do that would ever be acceptable to God."But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteous acts are as filthy rags....." Isaiah 64:6
[SIZE=3]Do you know what it means by, "filthy rags?" Not to gross anyone out but it means the rags that women used in Biblical times during their time of the month. So, according to Isaiah our righteous acts are as filthy, bloody rags to God. Do we want to present him with such disgusting gifts? I don't think so.
Isaiah 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Nor have you ever read it in context. In verse 6 Isaiah is specifically only talking to the house of Israel at a specific time period in their history. This was a time when they made sacrifices at the temple as works of righteousness, but then turn around and worship other Gods at the same time. God is saying that this being the case that their righeous acts have become as filthy rags because of their hypocrisy.
THIS NEVER WAS MEANT TO IMPLY THAT ALL GOOD WORKS WERE FITHY RAGS.
Perhaps you need better Sunday School teachers as well.
I answered your questions stating beforehand that you were not interested in having your questioned answered.Quote:
Problem is that your answers are not making any sense..
Really you know better then the Prophet Joseph Smith who said he saw God? He said:
I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)
I would think that if Smith was indeed a prophet of God his knowledge of the number of Gods that exist would be superior to yours.. I think that if you are righton this point of doctrine that you would be the president and prophet of the LDS church.. I guess to align with the teaching of Smith and his church you should have ignored Jesus and the Bible and said THREE..
The Doctrine of the Trinity never says that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings, Never does it say that they are separate Gods.. It teaches that they are separate Persons.. That the three Persons of the Trinity are the one true God.. You are telling me that that is a lie that the Bible and Jesus are liars as they teach that the Lord our God is one LORD.. Your statement shows a lack of education as to what is and is not Christian doctrine..
You are right you can explain your error by the logic of men.. I can only explain what God has said about Himself in His word. He said that there is one God who is our Lord. He said that He and no one and nothing else was ever a God in the past or in the future. To allow the thinking of mormonism to make sense of the Bible especially in this p***age additions have to be made to the p***age the wording if only in their thoughts. The phrase here must mean "For this world". Without the addition their doctrine of eternal progression is destroyed..
So can I explain the Trinity, YES, by what God gave us in His world that speaks to His nature.. He said that He is "Us" (Gen 1:26), Jesus is said to have been with God as well as being God in the beginning (John 1:1). Again to make it work for mormonism they add the article "a" to the meaning of the p***age.. Jesus much later describes the Father as God (John 20:17). Then after Jesus went to be with the Father, in His Kingdom, after the Promised Holy Spirit had come onto the Church, Peter calls Him God (Acts 5:3-4).. But still unless God lies, the Lord our God is one Lord.. The doctrine of the trinity retell the nature of God by what He has explained of Himself in the scripture.. You deny the scripture to believe that there are three different beings that are three Gods. Of course you believe that is incorrect and believe maybe that only the Father is God.. That would deny the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit .. It is clear that you have no idea of who and what God is..
Really.. That is just one more denial of the scripture.. You doubt me then look for yourself Romans 3:23..
What is this a LDS admitting that we have a physical nature? But How did we get a divine nature.. Jesus said we must be born again. We were all born the first time with a physical nature then we had to be Born Again of the Spirit and take on a spiritual nature. Remember even your BofM teaches that the natural mane is an enemy of God.. And remember Jesus said that there is a nature birth and a spiritual birth. They must happen at two different times.. So how is one born spiritually (John1:12)? Again look it up..
I agree that God will bring judgment on all who reject Him but you didn't say how the "truth" teaches that we can gain Mercy.. I say that it comes by His grace through faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS so that no one, NOT ONE OF US can boast.. No Baptism, No laying on of hands, no priesthood, no endowments, no marriage.. Just faith in Jesus. You say that you believe that salvation comes as a product of God's grace through faith and then as soon as your ordinances, priesthoods, or endurance to the end are brought up you change to a 100% believer in works salvation.. Haven't you seen that Christians are 100% consistent in holding that salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing?
Did I say that you or any LDS teaching aligned with what I said? I asked a fair question..
In Romans 6:23 we are told that the wages of Sin is Death. The atonement for sin requires death. If you believed the Bible you wold see that and recognize that Jesus became the sacrifice for sin.. He became sin, He who knew no sin, that we can be made the righteousness of God in Him.. Because He became sin He had to die.. See all you can learn posting here?
Yes Jesus asked if there was another way.. There wasn't and Jesus went through the wrath of God that would be poured out on Him because of the sin He represented..
The difference is do you believe God or do you doubt Him.. He explained through His Apostle that He created all things visible and invisible.. Mormonism knows better than that and calls the elements eternal when It teaches that God was NOT always God, but that He became a God through obedience to laws and ordinances.. It's not bad enough that you deny God is the absolute creator but you teach that He was the creation of another older and therefore more powerful God. That is the difference.. Again it shows the world that you doubt God through His word..
Tell me then that Jesus was there with the Father as He was in His Father's Kingdom as a spirit child before He became the Savior of the mortal world His Father in heaven created. If at that time He was God just in a different form was Jesus there with Him in the form of an intelligence? He would have to be if you are willing to stand by your false doctrine.. And not just Jesus but all those who such a being would know who would also become Gods as He did.. I have often said this "It this wasn't so sad it would be funny"..
Good, let me tell you I don't know how God flooded the whole earth or how He parted the Red Sea but I believe He did those things.. I don't need to wait and ask Noah or Moses. Was Smith a true prophet or a false prophet? If he was a real prophet, a true prophet then His teaching of God's nature would be true, wouldn't? It only makes sense that a true prophet would offer only truth not lies.. The meaning is straight forward, He taught that there are three Gods.. That is in conflict with the Bible..
That is just what I was saying you will say that LDS doctrine agrees with the Bible, but when asked about the requirements for salvation you immediately revert to works based salvation.. You are making my point very clearly..
You have no problem with stateing the man invented doctrines but I noticed that other than a a yes and no you had nothing in your post that could be supported Biblically.. IHS jim
I have no intention of reading your reply because I know my point was made.
You only question as it gives you a platform in which to rant on.
What worse is that you have no idea about the gospel or what Christ taught.
"Did not say"???Quote:
I simply don't have time for this.
I'm too old, and too tired to be always wishing for interesting topics that really challenge me to come up with new ways to express my views to others.
I have amended my "IGNORE list to include that guy for the next week or so.
I dont mind when people criticize us over things that appear on the forum, but to criticize over things that dont appear here?...to blame you for what you did not write?....thats just not going to fly here with me.
If I criticize someone I do so based on what they actually posted in black and white...
I dont play favorites, Im not on any 'team"
I dont cut people slack when they post something that is in error, regardless if they agree with me most of the time or not.
and....I dont try to read the person's mind.
Quote:
What's funny is that you have jumped to this verse so many times that you probably never read the verse that precedes it, because you are exactly supposed to meet and present your God with your good and righteous works.
Isaiah 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Nor have you ever read it in context. In verse 6 Isaiah is specifically only talking to the house of Israel at a specific time period in their history. This was a time when they made sacrifices at the temple as works of righteousness, but then turn around and worship other Gods at the same time. God is saying that this being the case that their righeous acts have become as filthy rags because of their hypocrisy.
THIS NEVER WAS MEANT TO IMPLY THAT ALL GOOD WORKS WERE FITHY RAGS.
Perhaps you need better Sunday School teachers as well.
Maybe we should look at translations made from older m****cripts, translated into modern English so we can understand the writers intent. We no longer speak as they did in England back during the reign of King James. The first part of Chapter 64, praise God for his power and majesty. Isaiah, states clearly that there were no other gods in Israel. That He acts on behalf of those who wait for Him and gladly helps those who do the right things and remember His commandments. But don't we continue to sin against his ways (His commandments) for our disobedience God is angry; so how then can we be saved? So then look at Isaiah 64:6. theway, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said, WE HAVE ALL BECOME LIKE ONE WHO IS UNCLEAN! We all SIN! We then go out and try to do righteous acts. Does that not make us ALL hypocrites? Those righteous acts are filthy rags before God. Again, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said we ALL then shrivel up as a leaf and like the wind, our sins; carry us away. That is what the p***age says. And my Sunday School teacher is just fine in what I am hearing.
To God, sin is sin and rebellion against Him and yes, Israel was making sacrifices to other gods, but again that was SIN! So that makes none of us clean and our poor attempts are useless because we are being hypocrites and God knows the things we do; He sees everything, nothing is hidden from God. This verse means as much today as it did for Israel, before the Babylonian captivity. FOR ALL HAVE SINNED!! I am sure you've read that verse many times. The ONLY righteousness we have is through Jesus Christ and if we don't have his righteousness, we have no righteousness, period! We're not capable of being righteous, our hearts are evil, our thoughts are evil. Sure, we try but we will fail at some point. Even Paul said he sinned, which made him unrighteous (Romans 7:19).
Once again... Isaiah was only speaking of the Children of Israel at that time in their history.Quote:
Maybe we should look at translations made from older m****cripts, translated into modern English so we can understand the writers intent. We no longer speak as they did in England back during the reign of King James. The first part of Chapter 64, praise God for his power and majesty. Isaiah, states clearly that there were no other gods in Israel. That He acts on behalf of those who wait for Him and gladly helps those who do the right things and remember His commandments. But don't we continue to sin against his ways (His commandments) for our disobedience God is angry; so how then can we be saved? So then look at Isaiah 64:6. theway, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said, WE HAVE ALL BECOME LIKE ONE WHO IS UNCLEAN! We all SIN! We then go out and try to do righteous acts. Does that not make us ALL hypocrites? Those righteous acts are filthy rags before God. Again, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said we ALL then shrivel up as a leaf and like the wind, our sins; carry us away. That is what the p***age says. And my Sunday School teacher is just fine in what I am hearing.
To God, sin is sin and rebellion against Him and yes, Israel was making sacrifices to other gods, but again that was SIN! So that makes none of us clean and our poor attempts are useless because we are being hypocrites and God knows the things we do; He sees everything, nothing is hidden from God. This verse means as much today as it did for Israel, before the Babylonian captivity. FOR ALL HAVE SINNED!! I am sure you've read that verse many times. The ONLY righteousness we have is through Jesus Christ and if we don't have his righteousness, we have no righteousness, period! We're not capable of being righteous, our hearts are evil, our thoughts are evil. Sure, we try but we will fail at some point. Even Paul said he sinned, which made him unrighteous (Romans 7:19).
This is not a Mormon translation nor is it a works based religion translation. It simply is what it is. You want to misinterpret it to fit into a Faith Alone heresy, that it won't do... Sorry.
You then misinterpret Jeremiah and Mark by implying that all hearts are evil, thinking you can make that verse fit your Faith Alone heresy as well. However once again you are blinded to the verse right next to it.
Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
Ask yourself why God would search our heart if it was only evil, and our works/deeds are all filthy rags?
The answer is right there in the Bible as well...
Matt. 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Out of the good heart comes good things, out of the evil heart comes bad.
This is the gospel 101, the gospel is about making bad men good and good men better, so that all can move onto perfection.
Seems your Sunday School teacher needs a good teacher.
I use batteries. This is a good example of works vs faith in Christ Jesus of the Holy Bible. If you look at the Scriptures in the New Testament you'll find where works no matter how many or worthy never could fill you lamp. This is why Jesus, paid the price for mankind on the Cross, He and He alone will fill your cup if you let Him.
You are making the the scripture totally irreverent to anyone but the Children of Israel with your interpretation. No the whole of the Bible is there to teach all men especially the Church.. Jesus told the Jews to:Quote:
[theway;153888]Once again... Isaiah was only speaking of the Children of Israel at that time in their history.
This is not a Mormon translation nor is it a works based religion translation. It simply is what it is. You want to misinterpret it to fit into a Faith Alone heresy, that it won't do... Sorry.
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Paul Speaking to Timothy said:
2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Was this only advice to Timothy at that time and we don't have to Study the scriptures. Jesus was talking only to the Jews and the Way to eternal life can't be found in the scripture by anyone but them at that time.. Your weak explanation that Isaiah's teachings were only for Israel and Israel that that time is astonishingly FALSE.. The Scripture ALL of it is there to lead us to Jesus and thereby to salvation..
Do I misinterpret really? Are we different than the men before the flood? I say that in our nature before we are quickened by the Holy Spirit and become children of God that we are just like those people. And what is reported by God of them as He searched their hearts?Quote:
You then misinterpret Jeremiah and Mark by implying that all hearts are evil, thinking you can make that verse fit your Faith Alone heresy as well. However once again you are blinded to the verse right next to it.
Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
Ask yourself why God would search our heart if it was only evil, and our works/deeds are all filthy rags?
Gen 6:5
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The answer is right there in the Bible as well...
Then the heart that has not be "BORN FROM ABOVE" Born again, does only evil continually. When God searches such a heart that is what He finds.. From such as one of these their attempts to "Be Good" are as filthy rags before God. The word of God that He has preserved for us teaches these things.. You demand that to us these teaching are worthless.. Think for yourself, what is God going to find in an impure heart? A heart fulled with corruption and enmity toward God? What would we find if we mixed pure clean water with sewage? We would find nothing but sewage.. That is what God finds in the hearts of men as He searches them, Filthy Rages.. It is not in the power of good works to make someone clean before God. That requires BLOOD.
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
The writer to Hebrews made it clearer:
Hebrews 9:22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It is clear then that the acts of men outside the blood of Jesus are nothing but filthy rags.. Remember When Jesus was called "Good Master". He said "why do you call me Good ? There is only one who is Good and that is God". But you and your LDS betral of the scripture demands that Men are basically good.. Just like the Pharisees at the time of Jesus, those outside of the New Birth are natural men and are of their father the devil (John 8:44).
So the Good man would be the man who is in the righteousness of Jesus and the evil man would be one that worships false Gods, or no God at all. Those who have no faith in the Jesus of the Bible. Those that corrupt His nature to be a creation rather than the creator. I hold that those that are in the righteousness of Jesus are Good and bring forth good things that are acceptable to God. The evil men who reject that righteousness to build their own in the name of humanity, in the name of other Gods, or in their own name are building with filth rags.. IHS jimQuote:
Matt. 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Out of the good heart comes good things, out of the evil heart comes bad.
This is the gospel 101, the gospel is about making bad men good and good men better, so that all can move onto perfection.
Seems your Sunday School teacher needs a good teacher.
theway, how tired I am of your saying that faith alone is heresy. If that is so, then Paul taught heresy. We know that the Bible was all about Israel and how God dealt with His chosen people but it is a book for all men, not just Israel. In it one finds solace, God's truths and what man needs to know to gain his/her salvation. The Bible has lasted for millennia and is still important for today. God sees the heart of man, He sees the heart of man and knows that it is evil. If it wasn't so, then Jesus Christ's entire life and death was in vain. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. Sure, if people were to live entirely for God, man would be good but no one can do that. Our nature doesn't allow us to be 100% good. Even our thoughts are evil and God knows our thoughts even if we don't act on them. No one can be perfect as you claim, again it is not possible. Your BoM says that, the natural man is an enemy of God, why is that? Why is that stated if it wasn't so?Quote:
Once again... Isaiah was only speaking of the Children of Israel at that time in their history.
This is not a Mormon translation nor is it a works based religion translation. It simply is what it is. You want to misinterpret it to fit into a Faith Alone heresy, that it won't do... Sorry.
You then misinterpret Jeremiah and Mark by implying that all hearts are evil, thinking you can make that verse fit your Faith Alone heresy as well. However once again you are blinded to the verse right next to it.
Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
Ask yourself why God would search our heart if it was only evil, and our works/deeds are all filthy rags?
The answer is right there in the Bible as well...
Matt. 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Out of the good heart comes good things, out of the evil heart comes bad.
This is the gospel 101, the gospel is about making bad men good and good men better, so that all can move onto perfection.
Seems your Sunday School teacher needs a good teacher.
I again say how sorry I am that you have been made to believe doctrines that are not true but twist the precious scriptures to fit what JS taught and he was not a good man and no amount of studying the Bible for him would have made him a good man. This is true from the very words he spoke, that no man could enter heaven without his say so. He made himself to take the place of God for ONLY God has the right to say who can and can't enter heaven. And those who have rejected Jesus Christ, (the true Jesus Christ) not an intelligence who lived in heaven but was God himself, a part of the Godhead. So for me I also claim, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
Another verse says, "For ALL have sinned....." So the question must be asked, what is your definition of ALL?