Not the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ, but 'a' jesus christ. . .a spirit-brother-of-satan 'jesus' that joseph smith invented.
But because they follow SOMEONE or SOMETHING calling itself 'jesus christ,' they are 'by definition' 'christians.'
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Not the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ, but 'a' jesus christ. . .a spirit-brother-of-satan 'jesus' that joseph smith invented.
But because they follow SOMEONE or SOMETHING calling itself 'jesus christ,' they are 'by definition' 'christians.'
I follow the Jesus Christ that is in the Bible, is yours a different Jesus Christ than that???
If you are a mormon, YOURS is a different Jesus Christ than that. If you DO follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible, you are NOT a mormon. SIMPLE. . .Quote:
joey smith INVENTED mormonism, INVENTED his own 'jesus christ' who is supposedly a 'spirit-brother-of-satan,' but IS NOT THE JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE. If you follow HIS 'jesus' then you are NOT following the Jesus Christ of the Bible. . .you are only giving Him 'lip service' while following joey smith's INVENTIONS.
WHICH Peter? Peter Pan? Belief in a false christ (a spirit brother of satan) instead of the REAL Christ (the ONLY begotten [fathered]) Son of God means that whatever 'peter' you are talking about must have answered your IMAGINARY jesus. . .
Would that be this Jesus Christ?
Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Why do the faith alone preach a salvation through a faith without works?
What one finds in the Bible--is also found in the LDS church.
Are you telling us that you do NOT follow the smith-invented 'christ?'Quote:
The BIBLICAL Jesus is the ONLY begotten (fathered) Son of God (John 3:16), not one of the many illegitmate sons of joe smith's invention.
cog posted:
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian
If you are a mormon, YOURS is a different Jesus Christ than that. If you DO follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible, you are NOT a mormon. SIMPLE. . .
joey smith INVENTED mormonism, INVENTED his own 'jesus christ' who is supposedly a 'spirit-brother-of-satan,' but IS NOT THE JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE. If you follow HIS 'jesus' then you are NOT following the Jesus Christ of the Bible. . .you are only giving Him 'lip service' while following joey smith's INVENTIONS
Which means I could say if you believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible then you cannot be anything but a Mormon.
How stupid is that?
Same logic you're using. I follow the only Jesus Christ there enough has ever been, not some imaginary being taught through the trinity because some people with no real understanding of the scriptures, and no other.
IF you follow joey smith's INVENTED "jesus" then you follow a FALSE christ, one of supposedly MANY 'begotten' (definition, 'FATHERED') spirit babies according to joey smith's religion.
The REAL Jesus (the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ) is God's ONLY begotten (fathered) Son. See John 3:16, then tell us why you consider God to be a liar there.
According to GOD:
Isa 43:10-11
10 "You are My witnesses," says the Lord,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.
NKJV
Isa 44:6
6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
NKJV
Isa 44:8
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV
There are many more, but those three pretty well sum it up. Joey smith's 'gods' of your pgp book of Abraham, chapters 3 and 4 are FALSE GODS. The God of the BIBLE says HE is the ONLY ONE, NONE besides Him exist, HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW OF ANY OTHER GODS.
Your 'prophet' lied to you.
You don't get to go around saying "You believe in the wrong Jesus" to everyone and act like you follow Jesus.
O course I do. I believe the REAL Jesus. The jesuses of mormonism, christian scientism, and other made-up jesuses ARE the wrong ones.
And since I actually DO follow the REAL Jesus Christ, I SHOULD act like it. And I do.
Talking to you gets nobody anywhere because you're too close minded to believe anyone but blind trinitarians are Christians.
So if we UNDERSTAND that the BIBLE SAYS that the Father is God, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God (and OF COURSE IT DOES SAY THOSE THINGS) AND that there is ONLY ONE GOD ANYWHERE, then we must be 'blind' if we refer to that BIBLICAL CONCEPT as 'trinity?'
SHOW ME BIBLICALLY where I have stated ANY UNTRUTH about the nature of God in the above paragraph. Personally I don't think you can FIND ONE SCRIPTURE that disagrees with ONE WORD OF IT.
You have been lied to by your cult again, it appears. . .
Yes, I AM close-minded. I BELIEVE what God has said in the Bible. I BELIEVE that the Bible is the TRUTH. I don't think it is WRONG to BELIEVE THE TRUTH.
YOU are as close-minded as I am. YOU believe joey smith's fables. YOU believe in the mormon gods and prophets who haven't been able to prophesy since when????About 1911?
You've never done a real study of the scriptures, by real I mean with the Holy Ghost
Only for about 42+ years out of the last 50 years have I had the Holy Ghost teaching me. Prior to that I was NOT a believer.
But the Holy Ghost has made DRASTIC changes in my life. I am not the man I once was, a swearing, angry, short-fused, evil man.
Instead my life is characterized by the FRUIT OF THE HOLY GHOST. If you knew ANY of the folks who knew me before I became a Christian and who know me now, you would know the stupidity of your claim.
If you had, you wouldn't behave the way you do. Being a Biblical Christian that I am, I find you to be a disgrace to Protestants everywhere.
Your unBIBLICAL opinion is noted. But you should be aware that is ALL it is, nothing more.
You even ignore any verse we give from the Bible just because we're mormons.
No, I have not. Please SHOW US ONE SCRIPTURE from the Bible I have ignored (chapter and verse) or ADMIT YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.
You've been proven wrong with every single issue, doctrine, and piece of history on this site. You have embarr***ed yourself and keep inviting the spirit of contention, a spirit from Satan.
Both are totally FALSE CLAIMS. Please SHOW US ONE SINGLE ISSUE OR DOCTRINE I have erred in (CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE, of course) or ADMIT YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. I don't think you can find even ONE that I have been BIBLICALLY wrong in, and I know you are NOT telling the truth.
I challenge you to PUT UP OR ADMIT YOUR FALSEHOODS.
So far you have found NOTHING AT ALL of any "spirit from Satan" in ANY of my posts. What you have seen is what the pharisees and sadducees saw when JESUS and PAUL and others attacked THEIR FALSE TEACHINGS.
But then, neither you nor them should expect to 'feel good' about being proven defrauded by joey smith and satan's minions. . .
Quote:
Would that be this Jesus Christ?
Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Why do the faith alone preach a salvation through a faith without works?
What one finds in the Bible--is also found in the LDS church.
Just enough truth and half-truths to make it "look like" it legitimizes your false religion. There are the same kinds of claims by branch davidians, catholics, and white supremecists. PARTIAL truths to make it 'look like' your cult is from God to those who don't read more than just a little bit of your religion's garbage' The TRUTH is that your cult (like those others) takes SOME of the truth, REDEFINE SOME OF IT, ADD your own garbage, then pretend it is all 'from God.'
Of course the fantasies of joey smith are still nothing more than the fantasies of joey smith. Those who 'believe in' those fantasies will be led to Hell.
I notice they can come up with NO LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT against what I said. . .
Quote:
According to Mormonism, Jesus is God of this world. You should worship Him. According to Mormonism, Jehovah/Jesus said, Thou shalt have no other Gods before me. (Ex. 20:3)
In Christian Love,
Grandma
Quote:
We've given quotes, statistics from polls showing that Mormons as a whole know more about the Bible than any Protestant, have given verses from scriptures, explained the scriptures given, including the ones you've given, and have overall topped you in every topic thus far. You repeat yourself all the time. Its always "You believe in a false Christ. Your Christ was invented by Smith" blah blah blah. Yet, we know who we worship. We worship the Father through the Jesus Christ of the Bible. You've gone so far as to say the God of the Bible isn't our God even though He, not It, is.
And I have demonstrated that your so-called 'statistics from polls' were not valid at all. You have not given one single scripture that says your 'daddy god who fathers all them 'spirit babies' exists at all, OR that Jesus was only one of MANY 'begotten' (fathered) by the REAL GOD.
The BIBLE refutes you when it says Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD (John 3:16).
Your cult has lied to you, and you 'know' it is telling the truth.
Nobody can convince you of the GODLY truth. . .you prefer the darkness of smith's lies.
BTW, CHRISTIANS have been repeating ourselves for about 2,000 years now. Mormons didn't come close to existing when we began.
Begotten doesn't always mean offspring --- especially in Mormonism.
Yes, it was my understanding that begotten - meaning to have brought (a child) into existence, and that He was the only begotten in the flesh, meaning He is the ONLY physical being that has an earthly mother and a Heavenly Father in his physical DNA. But God is the Father of all of our spirits. Do they not believe that?? This is fascinating, I had no idea, He's always referred to as Our Father, so...
It does not always mean offspring.Quote:
Yes it does
be·get
\bi-ˈget, bē-\
verb
: to cause (something) to happen or exist
: to become the father of (someone)
Full Definition
be·got\-ˈgät\ also be·gat\-ˈgat\be·got·ten\-ˈgä-tən\ or be·gotbe·get·ting
transitive verb
1 :to procreate as the father
2 :to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth
To be born. To beget is to give birth, to procreate, or to call into being. In the scriptures, these words are often used to mean being born of God. Although Jesus Christ is the only child begotten of the Father in mortality, all people may be spiritually begotten of Christ by accepting him, obeying his commandments, and becoming new persons through the power of the Holy Ghost.Quote:
Guide to the Scriptures, lds.org
Mosiah 5:7
And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
Are you the spirit child of Elohim or of Jesus Christ?
Love in Christ,
Grandma
You are wrong once again. You have demonstrated your own self-contradictions.Quote:
JESUS is the ONLY begotten Son of God (John 3:16), NOT ONE OF MANY offsprings.
And YOUR 'father god' is supposedly the 'father' of YOUR 'jesus' and YOUR 'satan' spirit babies. Now EXACTLY WHAT PART DO I HAVE WRONG?
There are many begotten sons.Quote:
What am I wrong about? Jesus being the only begotten Son of God means He's the only literal, physical, offspring of God. We are not born spiritual orphans. Everyone, Christian and atheist alike, is a child of God. If you think we're born as spiritual orphans then you would have to believe that an infant who p***es away would be doomed to ****ation if not baptized or brought under the trinitarian umbrella. This belief would put you on par with catholicism.
You keep criticizing the church of the Lamb to no avail. My faith in God is stronger than your influence which comes from Lucifer. The umbrella I'm under is the divine protection given by Christ, through the scriptures and prayer, that no amount of false doctrines or criticisms can pierce.
D&C 76
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.
Mosiah 5
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
In Christian Love,
Grandma
Quote:
There are many begotten sons.
D&C 76
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.
Mosiah 5
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
In Christian Love,
Grandma
There are times when the word "begotten" is used symbolically when referring to Christ
Mosiah 5:7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
In this case, like I noted before when referring to Jesus Christ as "Father" we are "spiritually begotten" meaning you are his "spiritual children" unto his gospel and "growing up" to be like him, through faith and baptism.
So we are literally begotten spirits of God
Symbolically begotten sons & daughters of Jesus Christ through faith and covenants
But Christ is still the ONLY begotten son of God in the flesh on this earth. The ONLY mortal being with a Heavenly Father and a mortal mother.
cog posted:
What am I wrong about? Jesus being the only begotten Son of God means He's the only literal, physical, offspring of God.
When it says 'His ONLY begotten Son. . .' the word 'begotten' simply means 'fathered.' Nothing about 'physical' at all. Just 'fathered or 'begotten''
We are not born spiritual orphans. Everyone, Christian and atheist alike, is a child of God.
Not true. GOD said:
John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
It looks like you make your stuff up as you go, and it CONFLICTS with what GOD has already revealed. NON-Christians are NOT children of God. IF THEY WERE, they would NOT have to be ADOPTED into Christ's family when we became CHRISTIANS. But JESUS BOUGHT US. HE paid the price. No such payment would have been required if we had already been 'spirit children' of God.
joey smith lied to you.
If you think we're born as spiritual orphans then you would have to believe that an infant who p***es away would be doomed to ****ation if not baptized or brought under the trinitarian umbrella. This belief would put you on par with catholicism.
Of course we CHRISTIANS don't believe that nonsense, so you are simply spitting in the wind. . . with NOTHING FROM SCRIPTURE to support you. . . as usual.
You keep criticizing the church of the Lamb to no avail.
I have NEVER ONCE criticized CHRIST'S church. I HAVE criticized MANY of your cults however.
I <snipped> your personal attack. It had no substance.
The scriptures use different terms to describe how we are sons & daughters of God & Jesus ChristQuote:
cog posted:
What am I wrong about? Jesus being the only begotten Son of God means He's the only literal, physical, offspring of God.
When it says 'His ONLY begotten Son. . .' the word 'begotten' simply means 'fathered.' Nothing about 'physical' at all. Just 'fathered or 'begotten''
We are not born spiritual orphans. Everyone, Christian and atheist alike, is a child of God.
t looks like you make your stuff up as you go, and it CONFLICTS with what GOD has already revealed. NON-Christians are NOT children of God. IF THEY WERE, they would NOT have to be ADOPTED into Christ's family when we became CHRISTIANS. But JESUS BOUGHT US. HE paid the price. No such payment would have been required if we had already been 'spirit children' of God.
If you think we're born as spiritual orphans then you would have to believe that an infant who p***es away would be doomed to ****ation if not baptized or brought under the trinitarian umbrella. This belief would put you on par with catholicism.
Of course we CHRISTIANS don't believe that nonsense, so you are simply spitting in the wind. . . with NOTHING FROM SCRIPTURE to support you. . . as usual.
We are all literal spirit children of Heavenly Father
Acts 17:29 - We are offspring of God
Hebrews 12:9 - Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits
We are "adopted" children born again through the Atonement
John 1:12 - As many as received himgave he power to become the sons of God
I know it can be confusing, but the Bible does use words in multiple ways .... For example
The word "glory"
Splendor - Matthew 6:29 "....Solomon in all his glory..."
Praise - Acts 12:23 "...he did not give God the glory..."
Brightness - 2Corinthians 3:7 "the glory of Moses's face"
Heaven - 1Timothy 3:16 "...taken up in glory..."
As for the last comment above from you, I don't see how you could believe any other way if you think we can only be adopted children of God through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that only the sons and daughters of God will live with Him again. By that, your logic would dictate that children not brought unto the Gospel cannot live with God, or is there a concession made in that case? If so, up to what age do children get a p***?
I snipped your scripture from John as I did not see the relevance to the conversation, unless you were noting another example of when the word "father" is used....very good, I see you are aware of multiple uses for individual words :)
mickey posted:
The scriptures use different terms to describe how we are sons & daughters of God & Jesus Christ
We are all literal spirit children of Heavenly Father
Acts 17:29 - We are offspring of God
Adopted, of course. . .He is CLEARLY NOT TALKING about 'spiritual babies, popped out of goddesses impregnated by your 'daddy-god'
Hebrews 12:9 - Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits
We are "adopted" children born again through the Atonement
John 1:12 - As many as received him gave he power to become the sons of God
Which OF COURSE indicates that they are GIVEN THE POWER TO BECOME the sons of God, THEY AREN'T THAT WAY BEFORE THEN. The Atonement of JESUS CHRIST (THE REAL ONE) paid for them
I know it can be confusing, but the Bible does use words in multiple ways .... For example
The word "glory"
Splendor - Matthew 6:29 "....Solomon in all his glory..."
Praise - Acts 12:23 "...he did not give God the glory..."
Brightness - 2Corinthians 3:7 "the glory of Moses's face"
Heaven - 1Timothy 3:16 "...taken up in glory..."
Sorry, but your 1 Timothy p***age says no such thing. IT says:
1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
NKJV
Jesus was received up in glory alright, but NOT "INTO" glory. He was taken up in SPLENDER, and BEAUTY (Glory)
NOT up into 'exaltation' places or into 'one of three places you could go when you die.'
Joey smith made all THAT junk up out of the air.
Your claim that it is referring to heaven is bogus.
As for the last comment above from you, I don't see how you could believe any other way if you think we can only be adopted children of God through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that only the sons and daughters of God will live with Him again.
I'm glad you agree with my understanding.
By that, your logic would dictate that children not brought unto the Gospel cannot live with God, or is there a concession made in that case? If so, up to what age do children get a p***?
God has given NO 'age of consent,' thus when Jesus said 'of such is the kingdom of heaven' we don't know when in a child's life that ceases to be. Your theory about my logic is flawed, to say the least
It's actually NOT clear since that's not what offspring means. The remainder of your comment was [snipped] due to unnecessary language (there are much more mature ways to present your ideas)Quote:
mickey posted:
The scriptures use different terms to describe how we are sons & daughters of God & Jesus Christ
We are all literal spirit children of Heavenly Father
Acts 17:29 - We are offspring of God
Adopted, of course. . .He is CLEARLY NOT TALKING about 'spiritual babies
So wait a minute...first you told childofgod that "begotten" doesn't mean "offspring", now you're saying "offspring" doesn't mean "offspring" And from your comments below, if you don't believe words or concepts have multiple meanings in the Bible, then how can you adopt your own offspring?
But they areQuote:
Hebrews 12:9 - Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits
We are "adopted" children born again through the Atonement
John 1:12 - As many as received him gave he power to become the sons of God
Which OF COURSE indicates that they are GIVEN THE POWER TO BECOME the sons of God, THEY AREN'T THAT WAY BEFORE THEN. The Atonement of JESUS CHRIST (THE REAL ONE) paid for them
It's odd that you don't agree with the above p***age and meaning as I found the information on an Evangelical Christian Bible site specifically so you could understand what I was saying. There is another example that says words can only have one meaning within the context being presented at that time. That applies here as well.Quote:
I know it can be confusing, but the Bible does use words in multiple ways .... For example
The word "glory"
Splendor - Matthew 6:29 "....Solomon in all his glory..."
Praise - Acts 12:23 "...he did not give God the glory..."
Brightness - 2Corinthians 3:7 "the glory of Moses's face"
Heaven - 1Timothy 3:16 "...taken up in glory..."
Sorry, but your 1 Timothy p***age says no such thing. IT says:
1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
NKJV
Jesus was received up in glory alright, but NOT "INTO" glory. He was taken up in SPLENDER, and BEAUTY (Glory)
Your claim that it is referring to heaven is bogus.
http://www.simplybible.com/f951.htm
The remainder of your comment was [snipped] because it had nothing to do with the above interpretation
So, you don't believe LDS are Christian, you don't believe Catholics are Christian, is it also your belief that Evangelists aren't Christian, or is there another reason you don't believe this interpretation?
"or is there a concession made in that case?Quote:
As for the last comment above from you, I don't see how you could believe any other way if you think we can only be adopted children of God through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that only the sons and daughters of God will live with Him again.
I'm glad you agree with my understanding.
By that, your logic would dictate that children not brought unto the Gospel cannot live with God, or is there a concession made in that case? If so, up to what age do children get a p***?
Your theory about my logic is flawed to say the least.
No, my theory is sound
Thank you for sharing what you believe. We believe children will live again with God as well. It's nice to have common ground :)Quote:
God has given NO 'age of consent,' thus when Jesus said 'of such is the kingdom of heaven' we don't know when in a child's life that ceases to be.
mickey posted:
Quote:
mickey posted:
The scriptures use different terms to describe how we are sons & daughters of God & Jesus Christ
We are all literal spirit children of Heavenly Father
Acts 17:29 - We are offspring of God
Adopted, of course. . .He is CLEARLY NOT TALKING about 'spiritual babies
It's actually NOT clear since that's not what offspring means. The remainder of your comment was [snipped]
Just as I <snipped> the remainder of YOUR comment for the same reason.
The p***age:
Acts 17:23-31
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given ***urance of this to all by raising Him from the dea
NKJV
Please SHOW US IN THE P***AGE where it SAYS ONE WORD ABOUT SPIRITUAL BABIES in any 'pre-existance. . .' Sorry, but it simply IS NOT THERE.
So wait a minute...first you told childofgod that "begotten" doesn't mean "offspring", now you're saying "offspring" doesn't mean "offspring"
The word 'beget' means "to Father." When a man begets a child, he FATHERS a child. Jesus is the ONLY 'FATHERED' child of God. The rest of us are adopted through Jesus Christ.
"offspring" can mean mutiple things. It simply means 'child of.' It does NOT TELL how the child BECAME a child of God. THAT happened when we received Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord.
John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
NKJV
IF they had ever been 'fathered' by God as so-called 'spirit-babies,' that sentence would make NO SENSE AT ALL.
And from your comments below, if you don't believe words or concepts have multiple meanings in the Bible, then how can you adopt your own offspring?
Hebrews 12:9 - Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits
Quote:
We are "adopted" children born again through the Atonement
John 1:12 - As many as received him gave he power to become the sons of God
Which OF COURSE indicates that they are GIVEN THE POWER TO BECOME the sons of God, THEY AREN'T THAT WAY BEFORE THEN. The Atonement of JESUS CHRIST (THE REAL ONE) paid for them
That is my point. . .You CANNOT 'adopt' your own children.
And prior to your BECOMING a child of God????
John 8:44-45
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
We CHRISTIANS had to be bought because we didn't already belong to Jesus.
1 Cor 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
NKJV
1 Cor 7:22-24
22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.
NKJV
It's odd that you don't agree with the above p***age and meaning as I found the information on an Evangelical Christian Bible site specifically so you could understand what I was saying. There is another example that says words can only have one meaning within the context being presented at that time. That applies here as well.
So, you don't believe LDS are Christian, you don't believe Catholics are Christian, is it also your belief that Evangelists aren't Christian, or is there another reason you don't believe this interpretation?
Catholics tell you to pray to non-gods. Mormons follow a god who used to be a man, one of MANY men they claim have become gods. The BIBLE (the WORD OF GOD) contradicts BOTH of your stands. I don't think you even know what an evangelist is. To my knowledge, there is no 'religious organization' called that. Do you make this stuff up as you go?
"or is there a concession made in that case?Quote:
As for the last comment above from you, I don't see how you could believe any other way if you think we can only be adopted children of God through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that only the sons and daughters of God will live with Him again.
I'm glad you agree with my understanding.
By that, your logic would dictate that children not brought unto the Gospel cannot live with God, or is there a concession made in that case? If so, up to what age do children get a p***?
Your theory about my logic is flawed to say the least.
No, my theory is sound.
God has not spoken about any 'age of accountability.' Jesus said of children and infants 'of such is the kingdom of heaven. That is good enough for me. I believe Him. You may make anything up YOU WANT TO BELIEVE if you wish.
Oh my goodness, you're all over the place. And you didn't answer my questions, and you completely mixed up the context of a lot of what I was saying. So, I'll be back in a bit when I get of work and ask them again. If I were a rude person I would say your incessant endless melodramatic prattling (whining?) was a ploy to not answer my individual questions. But I'm not, so I won't :)Quote:
mickey posted:
It's actually NOT clear since that's not what offspring means. The remainder of your comment was [snipped]
Just as I <snipped> the remainder of YOUR comment for the same reason.
The p***age:
Acts 17:23-31
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given ***urance of this to all by raising Him from the dea
NKJV
Please SHOW US IN THE P***AGE where it SAYS ONE WORD ABOUT SPIRITUAL BABIES in any 'pre-existance. . .' Sorry, but it simply IS NOT THERE.
So wait a minute...first you told childofgod that "begotten" doesn't mean "offspring", now you're saying "offspring" doesn't mean "offspring"
The word 'beget' means "to Father." When a man begets a child, he FATHERS a child. Jesus is the ONLY 'FATHERED' child of God. The rest of us are adopted through Jesus Christ.
"offspring" can mean mutiple things. It simply means 'child of.' It does NOT TELL how the child BECAME a child of God. THAT happened when we received Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord.
John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
NKJV
IF they had ever been 'fathered' by God as so-called 'spirit-babies,' that sentence would make NO SENSE AT ALL.
And from your comments below, if you don't believe words or concepts have multiple meanings in the Bible, then how can you adopt your own offspring?
Hebrews 12:9 - Be in subjection unto the [B]Father of spirits
That is my point. . .You CANNOT 'adopt' your own children.
And prior to your BECOMING a child of God????
John 8:44-45
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
We CHRISTIANS had to be bought because we didn't already belong to Jesus.
1 Cor 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
NKJV
1 Cor 7:22-24
22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.
NKJV
It's odd that you don't agree with the above p***age and meaning as I found the information on an Evangelical Christian Bible site specifically so you could understand what I was saying. There is another example that says words can only have one meaning within the context being presented at that time. That applies here as well.
So, you don't believe LDS are Christian, you don't believe Catholics are Christian, is it also your belief that Evangelists aren't Christian, or is there another reason you don't believe this interpretation?
Catholics tell you to pray to non-gods. Mormons follow a god who used to be a man, one of MANY men they claim have become gods. The BIBLE (the WORD OF GOD) contradicts BOTH of your stands. I don't think you even know what an evangelist is. To my knowledge, there is no 'religious organization' called that. Do you make this stuff up as you go?
"or is there a concession made in that case?
No, my theory is sound.
God has not spoken about any 'age of accountability.' Jesus said of children and infants 'of such is the kingdom of heaven. That is good enough for me. I believe Him. You may make anything up YOU WANT TO BELIEVE if you wish.
But, I'll be back later and address things separately and with as few words as possible. And I'll keep asking the questions, until you answer them.
One thing I would like to address now is this
You said "To my knowledge, there is no religious organization called that (evangelism)
Walter Martin Ministries says "Walter Martin Ministries focuses on evangelism.."
I wasn't saying the religion was called "evangelism", although I know it may have looked that way to someone being evasive (or clueless), I was speaking more about "evangelicalism" which is "a worldwide, transdenominational movement within Protestant Christianity, maintaining that the essence of the gospel consists in the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ's atonement." So it's not an organization...it's a movement.
Now, this site, is a evangelical CHRISTIAN site. But what it is NOT is Catholic or LDS. So, in plain words for you to understand, it's what you call "CHRISTIAN". Which should mean that you should agree with what they say. It's called "Simply Bible" The link is below
http://www.simplybible.com/f951.htm
THIS IS MY ONLY QUESTION:
Why do you not agree with a "CHRISTIAN" interpretation of the word "glory" in this Bible verse?
Heaven "...taken up in glory..." (1Timothy 3:16)
Please show in the p***age where it says ONE WORD about being adopted through faith and the atonement. It simply IS NOT THERE. This section is not about accepting the Gospel or becoming "adopted" children through the Atonement. It is about the nature of God, and our relation to Him. In this context....He is speaking of how we are literally His children. ALL OF US.Quote:
The p***age:
Acts 17:23-31
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given ***urance of this to all by raising Him from the dea
NKJV
Please SHOW US IN THE P***AGE where it SAYS ONE WORD ABOUT SPIRITUAL BABIES in any 'pre-existance. . .' Sorry, but it simply IS NOT THERE.
Again...there are different ways the Lord speaks of us as children.
1 - We are ALL literal spirit children of God
2 - We can be "adopted" through The Savior's Atonement and Gospel
Quote:
The word 'beget' means "to Father." When a man begets a child, he FATHERS a child. Jesus is the ONLY 'FATHERED' child of God. The rest of us are adopted through Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the only physically fathered child of God, the only mortal man to have a Heavenly Father and a mortal mother. The rest of us can be adopted through Jesus Christ. And then we are ALL literal spirit children of God.
If it doesn't tell of HOW the child became a child of God....how do you know how it happened?Quote:
It does NOT TELL how the child BECAME a child of God. THAT happened when we received Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord.
Sigh...okay, lets do this again...Quote:
John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
NKJV
IF they had ever been 'fathered' by God as so-called 'spirit-babies,' that sentence would make NO SENSE AT ALL.
We are all LITERAL spirit children of God
We can become SYMBOLIC children of Jesus Christ through the Atonement.
We existed as intelligence. :)Quote:
And prior to your BECOMING a child of God????
Correct, an example of how we can become SYMBOLIC "adopted" children through the Atonement and the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we didn't already belong to Jesus because He's not the Father of our spirits.Quote:
We CHRISTIANS had to be bought because we didn't already belong to Jesus.
I addressed this in my other response...I meant the MOVEMENT of evangelism within Protestant Christianity, of which Walter Martin and this forum is based on when it says in it's "about us" section "Walter Martin Ministries focuses on evangelism..."Quote:
I don't think you even know what an evangelist is. To my knowledge, there is no 'religious organization' called that. Do you make this stuff up as you go?
Okay, so your answer is you don't know when.Quote:
God has not spoken about any 'age of accountability.'
mickey posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian
The p***age:
Acts 17:23-31
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given ***urance of this to all by raising Him from the dea
NKJV
Please SHOW US IN THE P***AGE where it SAYS ONE WORD ABOUT SPIRITUAL BABIES in any 'pre-existance. . .' Sorry, but it simply IS NOT THERE.
Please show in the p***age where it says ONE WORD about being adopted through faith and the atonement. It simply IS NOT THERE. This section is not about accepting the Gospel or becoming "adopted" children through the Atonement. It is about the nature of God, and our relation to Him. In this context....He is speaking of how we are literally His children. ALL OF US.
When I study my Bible, I take the WHOLE BIBLE into consideration.
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
NKJV
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
NKJV
I'm sorry if you don't believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. You can follow joey smith's imaginary gods if you wish.
Again...there are different ways the Lord speaks of us as children.
1 - We are ALL literal spirit children of God
Not according to GOD. We CHRISTIANS were ADOPTED by God, to be His children.
NON-Christians such as mormons, branch davidians, and other heathens fit the following description BY GOD:
John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
2 - We can be "adopted" through The Savior's Atonement and Gospel
[/COLOR]
Jesus is the only physically fathered child of God, the only mortal man to have a Heavenly Father and a mortal mother. The rest of us can be adopted through Jesus Christ. And then we are ALL literal spirit children of God.
If it doesn't tell of HOW the child became a child of God....how do you know how it happened?
I read the Galatians and Ephesians p***ages above where GOD SAID SO. You ought to try actually STUDYING your Bible. . .
Sigh...okay, lets do this again...
We are all LITERAL spirit children of God
We can become SYMBOLIC children of Jesus Christ through the Atonement.
YOU CLAIM those things (GOD never said so).
Your cult may have TOLD you those things (GOD SAID NOTHING ABOUT BECOMING "SYMBOLIC" CHILDREN" THROUGH THE ATONEMENT BY JESUS ON THE CROSS)
Your cult has lied to you. . .again.
We existed as intelligence. :)Quote:
And prior to your BECOMING a child of God????
Do you make this junk up as you go? WHERE is this supposed to happen? In your pre-pre-existance? or your pre-pre-pre-pre-existance?
Correct, an example of how we can become SYMBOLIC "adopted" children through the Atonement and the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we didn't already belong to Jesus because He's not the Father of our spirits.Quote:
We CHRISTIANS had to be bought because we didn't already belong to Jesus.
I don't think even YOUR OWN CULT teaches your 'symbolic' adopted children theory. . . It LOOKS like you make it up as you go.
I addressed this in my other response...I meant the MOVEMENT of evangelism within Protestant Christianity, of which Walter Martin and this forum is based on when it says in it's "about us" section "Walter Martin Ministries focuses on evangelism..."Quote:
I don't think you even know what an evangelist is. To my knowledge, there is no 'religious organization' called that. Do you make this stuff up as you go?
And when you clearly misused the term (not mentioning the deceased Walter Martin at all), I pointed out that you seem to not know the meaning of the word. Have you looked up the meaning of the word since?
Okay, so your answer is you don't know when.Quote:
God has not spoken about any 'age of accountability.'
GOD has not said when, thus NEITHER you NOR I know when. I am happy to leave it up to God however. Are you?
I see, when you don't want to actually address what I'm talking about, you start in with the ad hominem attacks towards Joseph Smith....yawn... Predictable. You still did not answer about the "Christian" interpretation of the bible verse you disagreed with or answer my question why. Although you expressed before how I just need to ask what you believe and you'll tell me. Actual details, not just your overly repe***ive party line. You did not acknowledge when I explained that individual words in the Bible can have multiple meanings...DEPENDING ON THE CONTEXT in that particular section in which that particular word is discussed. And could not present anywhere in the P***AGE ( in this particular section) where God is referring to His adopted children in the Gospel.Quote:
mickey posted:
[/COLOR][/I][/COLOR]
Please show in the p***age where it says ONE WORD about being adopted through faith and the atonement. It simply IS NOT THERE. This section is not about accepting the Gospel or becoming "adopted" children through the Atonement. It is about the nature of God, and our relation to Him. In this context....He is speaking of how we are literally His children. ALL OF US.
When I study my Bible, I take the WHOLE BIBLE into consideration.
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
NKJV
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
NKJV
I'm sorry if you don't believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. You can follow joey smith's imaginary gods if you wish.
Again...there are different ways the Lord speaks of us as children.
1 - We are ALL literal spirit children of God
Not according to GOD. We CHRISTIANS were ADOPTED by God, to be His children.
NON-Christians such as mormons, branch davidians, and other heathens fit the following description BY GOD:
John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
2 - We can be "adopted" through The Savior's Atonement and Gospel
[/COLOR]
Jesus is the only physically fathered child of God, the only mortal man to have a Heavenly Father and a mortal mother. The rest of us can be adopted through Jesus Christ. And then we are ALL literal spirit children of God.
If it doesn't tell of HOW the child became a child of God....how do you know how it happened?
I read the Galatians and Ephesians p***ages above where GOD SAID SO. You ought to try actually STUDYING your Bible. . .
Sigh...okay, lets do this again...
We are all LITERAL spirit children of God
We can become SYMBOLIC children of Jesus Christ through the Atonement.
YOU CLAIM those things (GOD never said so).
Your cult may have TOLD you those things (GOD SAID NOTHING ABOUT BECOMING "SYMBOLIC" CHILDREN" THROUGH THE ATONEMENT BY JESUS ON THE CROSS)
Your cult has lied to you. . .again.
We existed as intelligence. :)
Do you make this junk up as you go? WHERE is this supposed to happen? In your pre-pre-existance? or your pre-pre-pre-pre-existance?
Correct, an example of how we can become SYMBOLIC "adopted" children through the Atonement and the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we didn't already belong to Jesus because He's not the Father of our spirits.
I don't think even YOUR OWN CULT teaches your 'symbolic' adopted children theory. . . It LOOKS like you make it up as you go.
I addressed this in my other response...I meant the MOVEMENT of evangelism within Protestant Christianity, of which Walter Martin and this forum is based on when it says in it's "about us" section "Walter Martin Ministries focuses on evangelism..."
And when you clearly misused the term (not mentioning the deceased Walter Martin at all), I pointed out that you seem to not know the meaning of the word. Have you looked up the meaning of the word since?
Okay, so your answer is you don't know when.
GOD has not said when, thus NEITHER you NOR I know when. I am happy to leave it up to God however. Are you?
And of course the "adoption" into the Gospel is symbolic....we're already His actual children silly.
I will address your individual evasions at another time.
But as for needing to reference the late Dr Martin when discussing the movement he stood for, IN HIS OWN FORUM...that seems silly. But I guess I have to explain everything to you. I'll try to be more thorough in the future. But you still never answered my question that was related to that. Nice deflect though.
I have some questions about those who were born before Christ came.Quote:
mickey posted:
[/COLOR][/I][/COLOR]
Please show in the p***age where it says ONE WORD about being adopted through faith and the atonement. It simply IS NOT THERE. This section is not about accepting the Gospel or becoming "adopted" children through the Atonement. It is about the nature of God, and our relation to Him. In this context....He is speaking of how we are literally His children. ALL OF US.
When I study my Bible, I take the WHOLE BIBLE into consideration.
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
NKJV
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
NKJV
I'm sorry if you don't believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. You can follow joey smith's imaginary gods if you wish.
Again...there are different ways the Lord speaks of us as children.
1 - We are ALL literal spirit children of God
Not according to GOD. We CHRISTIANS were ADOPTED by God, to be His children.
NON-Christians such as mormons, branch davidians, and other heathens fit the following description BY GOD:
John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
2 - We can be "adopted" through The Savior's Atonement and Gospel
[/COLOR]
Jesus is the only physically fathered child of God, the only mortal man to have a Heavenly Father and a mortal mother. The rest of us can be adopted through Jesus Christ. And then we are ALL literal spirit children of God.
If it doesn't tell of HOW the child became a child of God....how do you know how it happened?
I read the Galatians and Ephesians p***ages above where GOD SAID SO. You ought to try actually STUDYING your Bible. . .
Sigh...okay, lets do this again...
We are all LITERAL spirit children of God
We can become SYMBOLIC children of Jesus Christ through the Atonement.
YOU CLAIM those things (GOD never said so).
Your cult may have TOLD you those things (GOD SAID NOTHING ABOUT BECOMING "SYMBOLIC" CHILDREN" THROUGH THE ATONEMENT BY JESUS ON THE CROSS)
Your cult has lied to you. . .again.
We existed as intelligence. :)
Do you make this junk up as you go? WHERE is this supposed to happen? In your pre-pre-existance? or your pre-pre-pre-pre-existance?
Correct, an example of how we can become SYMBOLIC "adopted" children through the Atonement and the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we didn't already belong to Jesus because He's not the Father of our spirits.
I don't think even YOUR OWN CULT teaches your 'symbolic' adopted children theory. . . It LOOKS like you make it up as you go.
I addressed this in my other response...I meant the MOVEMENT of evangelism within Protestant Christianity, of which Walter Martin and this forum is based on when it says in it's "about us" section "Walter Martin Ministries focuses on evangelism..."
And when you clearly misused the term (not mentioning the deceased Walter Martin at all), I pointed out that you seem to not know the meaning of the word. Have you looked up the meaning of the word since?
Okay, so your answer is you don't know when.
GOD has not said when, thus NEITHER you NOR I know when. I am happy to leave it up to God however. Are you?
Were they able to be adopted by God through the Gospel? I'm ***uming it's through believing in God and practicing the Law of Moses, correct?
But anyone who were not able to be taught the Law of Moses will not be His children?
And then all the Jews that were saved and became Gods adopted children before Christ was born...went to hell for doing the same thing right after Christ died, correct?
These aren't questions I don't know the answers to, I'm just trying to get some specifics of what you believe, you said I could do that, so if you would, I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and please try to answer my questions with more than "I believe in the God of the Bible" or "I believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible"
Thanks!! :)
I like the questions raised...
But all that stuff in the quotation?...that just screws with my head and i get lost in the monster amount if text....so im setting that stuff aside and only deal with the stuff you ask about....
I have some questions about those who were born before Christ came.
Were they able to be adopted by God through the Gospel?
The law was only a school teacher that served untill the Lord came.
But be that as it may.....what the Bible shows us is that at all times the Lord is calling out to people....the Lord is not deaf...he hears all the words we speak in our hearts.
In the Bible in the Old test we see a small glimpse that regardless of their place of origin that people were responding to the calling of god they have heard....
This is the reason there is a "Court of the Gentiles"....for people even in the days of the Old test from other nations were still able to hear the calling of God ad become drawn to the Holy city....
Eek, sorry, I guess I was just showing that I was addressing Christian, yeah, that was getting kinda crazy lol
But anyone who were not able to be taught the Law of Moses will not be His children?
Im sure thereis a great answer by Walter martin for this very question....But Im way too tired to go googleing for it right now...so I will just answer this question for myself on the fly....here we go.
There were people that were drawn to the holy City yet had a very ****py idea of the Bible and who Moses was.....
The idea I have is that we all are not far from god regardless of where and when we are born,,,,God is always reaching out to us in many,many ways...God will even use your own private thoughts as a means to reach out to you....
This is why no person has any excuse for turning away from God...as all people have received the calling from god.....
Can you please let me know where in the Bible this is taught, and how this made them children of God through the Gospel?Quote:
I have some questions about those who were born before Christ came.
Were they able to be adopted by God through the Gospel?
The law was only a school teacher that served untill the Lord came.
But be that as it may.....what the Bible shows us is that at all times the Lord is calling out to people....the Lord is not deaf...he hears all the words we speak in our hearts.
In the Bible in the Old test we see a small glimpse that regardless of their place of origin that people were responding to the calling of god they have heard....
This is the reason there is a "Court of the Gentiles"....for people even in the days of the Old test from other nations were still able to hear the calling of God ad become drawn to the Holy city....
Thanks! :)
mickey posted:
Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
mickey posted:
[/I][/COLOR]Quote:
[/COLOR]
Please show in the p***age where it says ONE WORD about being adopted through faith and the atonement. It simply IS NOT THERE. This section is not about accepting the Gospel or becoming "adopted" children through the Atonement. It is about the nature of God, and our relation to Him. In this context....He is speaking of how we are literally His children. ALL OF US.
When I study my Bible, I take the WHOLE BIBLE into consideration.
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
NKJV
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us toadoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
NKJV
I'm sorry if you don't believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. You can follow joey smith's imaginary gods if you wish.
Again...there are different ways the Lord speaks of us as children.
1 - We are ALL literal spirit children of God
Not according to GOD. We CHRISTIANS were ADOPTED by God, to be His children.
NON-Christians such as mormons, branch davidians, and other heathens fit the following description BY GOD:
John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV
2 - We can be "adopted" through The Savior's Atonement and Gospel
[/COLOR]
Jesus is the only physically fathered child of God, the only mortal man to have a Heavenly Father and a mortal mother. The rest of us can be adopted through Jesus Christ. And then we are ALL literal spirit children of God.
If it doesn't tell of HOW the child became a child of God....how do you know how it happened?
I read the Galatians and Ephesians p***ages above where GOD SAID SO. You ought to try actually STUDYING your Bible. . .
Sigh...okay, lets do this again...
We are all LITERAL spirit children of God
We can become SYMBOLIC children of Jesus Christ through the Atonement.
YOU CLAIM those things (GOD never said so).
Your cult may have TOLD you those things (GOD SAID NOTHING ABOUT BECOMING "SYMBOLIC" CHILDREN" THROUGH THE ATONEMENT BY JESUS ON THE CROSS)
Your cult has lied to you. . .again.
We existed as intelligence. :)
Do you make this junk up as you go? WHERE is this supposed to happen? In your pre-pre-existance? or your pre-pre-pre-pre-existance?
Correct, an example of how we can become SYMBOLIC "adopted" children through the Atonement and the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we didn't already belong to Jesus because He's not the Father of our spirits.
I don't think even YOUR OWN CULT teaches your 'symbolic' adopted children theory. . . It LOOKS like you make it up as you go.
I addressed this in my other response...I meant the MOVEMENT of evangelism within Protestant Christianity, of which Walter Martin and this forum is based on when it says in it's "about us" section "Walter Martin Ministries focuses on evangelism..."
And when you clearly misused the term (not mentioning the deceased Walter Martin at all), I pointed out that you seem to not know the meaning of the word. Have you looked up the meaning of the word since?
Okay, so your answer is you don't know when.
GOD has not said when, thus NEITHER you NOR I know when. I am happy to leave it up to God however. Are you?
I see, when you don't want to actually address what I'm talking about, you start in with the ad hominem attacks towards Joseph Smith....yawn... Predictable. You still did not answer about the "Christian" interpretation of the bible verse you disagreed with or answer my question why.
What part of "When I study my Bible, I take the WHOLE BIBLE into consideration.
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
NKJV
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
NKJV"
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? I quoted SCRIPTURE that contradicted your pretense that all people are 'spirit children of God.' I pointed out that God doesn't 'adopt' those children who are already HIS.
But you just continue to make up fantasy claims.
And of course the "adoption" into the Gospel is symbolic....we're already His actual children silly.
Not according to God, you aren't.
I will address your individual evasions at another time
In other words, you cannot find BIBLICAL answers for your false claims, so you will run away without admitting it.
But as for needing to reference the late Dr Martin when discussing the movement he stood for, IN HIS OWN FORUM...that seems silly. But I guess I have to explain everything to you. I'll try to be more thorough in the future. But you still never answered my question that was related to that. Nice deflect though.
What question was that? You make some vague reference to an 'evangelist,' then whine because I don't understand WHO you were referring to and trying to 'put down?' Your strawman arguments don't work.
Christian said:
No I just have more to do in my life than hold your hand through this discussion. I clearly posted a scripture and you ignored it and quoted other scripture that only proved when we are adopted children through the Gospel. But you refused to discuss the scripture I posted. I have to keep going back through your incessant repe***ive prattle and explain things...it takes a minute. Perhaps you think if you keep repeating the same things over and over again, I'll just give up..so I have to devise a way in which I just ask one...question...at..a...time...which proves a challenge because I have to figure out what to ask first that won't confuse you. So, yes, I'll be back. I haven't backed down yet :)Quote:
In other words, you cannot find BIBLICAL answers for your false claims, so you will run away without admitting it.
Since Christian missed this question before, I Will post it again and see if he will answer it. Christian, please let me know if there are any difficult or "vague" words that you don't understand.
I had put the question in bold so you wouldn't miss it..,here it is again...this will be the third time I've posted it
I know you read the post because all you wanted to do was whine about how I didn't make it completely clear (although it should have been completely obvious) what kind of Evangelism I was speaking of. So.....I will remove that distracting word since you're having a problem comprehending it, and leave it at what YOU refer to as "Christian". Ok? So don't pout anymore.
Quote:
Now, this site, is not Catholic or LDS. So, in plain words for you to understand, it's what you call "CHRISTIAN". Which should mean that you should agree with what they say. It's called "Simply Bible" The link is below
http://www.simplybible.com/f951.htm
THIS IS MY ONLY QUESTION:
Why do you not agree with a "CHRISTIAN" interpretation of the word "glory" in this Bible verse?
Heaven "...taken up in glory..." (1Timothy 3:16)