JWs - Free of pagan influence?

I studied with JWs for almost a year, and one thing was always being brought up by the JW elder. He would boast that JWs are completely free of all pagan contamination.

This claim begs the question; If JWs are free of pagan contamination, why are they permitted to wear wedding rings and neck ties? Wedding rings, for example, date back to pagans who worshipped saturn.

Good question.

And what about all the Masonic (Babylonian) imagery in their early publications and all over the grave site of their founder? Why do JWs exchange money with more of the same pagan imagery all over it? And what about the content of Acts 17, where Paul quotes Aratus, a pagan Greek pantheist - is that text not of "pagan" origin?

-BH

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pagans believe in 'many' gods. JW's believe Jesus is 'a' god. if JW's believe the Father is 'a' god, and Jesus is 'a' god, then that's pagan.

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Originally Posted by PostTribber

pagans believe in 'many' gods. JW's believe Jesus is 'a' god. if JW's believe the Father is 'a' god, and Jesus is 'a' god, then that's pagan.

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Pagans believe in many Gods.
Witnesses believe in many Gods.
Therefore, Witnesses are Pagans.

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Cows are mammals.
Goats are mammals.
Therefore, goats are cows.

TRiG.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by TRiG

Pagans believe in many Gods.
Witnesses believe in many Gods.
Therefore, Witnesses are Pagans.

...

Cows are mammals.
Goats are mammals.
Therefore, goats are cows.

TRiG.:rolleyes:

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I appreciate the fact you are no longer JW, Trig but the logical fallacy is in your illustration.

reread both carefully.

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Originally Posted by johnd

I appreciate the fact you are no longer JW, Trig but the logical fallacy is in your illustration.

reread both carefully.

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I have done. The illustration has no fallacy that I can see.

TRiG.:)

Cows are mammals.
Goats are mammals.
Therefore, goats and cows are mammals.

In keeping with the definition of mammals.

Pagans believe in many Gods.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe in many Gods.
Therefore, Witnesses are Pagans.

In keeping with the definition of Paganism.
Although polytheism would have been a better (more accurate) choice of words.

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Originally Posted by johnd

Cows are mammals.
Goats are mammals.
Therefore, goats and cows are mammals.

In keeping with the definition of mammals.

Pagans believe in many Gods.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe in many Gods.
Therefore, Witnesses are Pagans.

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You are clearly very very confused.

Therefore pagans and JWs believe in many gods.

Just look at the parallelisms.

TRiG.:)

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Originally Posted by johnd

I appreciate the fact you are no longer JW, Trig but the logical fallacy is in your illustration.

reread both carefully.

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Are Christians also pagans?

The JW's view of Jesus and God comes directly from the pagan Greek philosopher Plato, ie. the Monas (God) and the Duas (Jesus).

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Originally Posted by johnd

Cows are mammals.
Goats are mammals.
Therefore, goats and cows are mammals.

In keeping with the definition of mammals.

Pagans believe in many Gods.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe in many Gods.
Therefore, Witnesses are Pagans.

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http://transitionland.files.wordpres...5/facepalm.jpg

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Originally Posted by xjw4evr

The JW's view of Jesus and God comes directly from the pagan Greek philosopher Plato, ie. the Monas (God) and the Duas (Jesus).

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Some will say that all of Christianity has pagan roots.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Some will say that all of Christianity has pagan roots.

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Only the uneducated or the liberal, my dear.

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Originally Posted by xjw4evr

Only the uneducated or the liberal, my dear.

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I don't understand. Why uneducated, why liberal?

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Why uneducated[?]

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Because there is so much scholarship out there that demonstrates, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Christianity did not "evolve" out of a vacuum, but was developed from the kernels of Jewish religious thought found in the Old Testamant and inter-Testamental writings (much on which were discovered at the Dead Sea).

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Originally Posted by GiGi

[W]hy liberal?

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Because most liberals (I speak of liberal Christian theologians) are stuck in the arguments of the 19th century Germans liberal theologians. These theologians made ***ertions that have been refuted with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (as mentioned above). Further, liberal Christians bring to the table the presupposition that Christianity was not a "child" of Judaism, but was some sort of cheap attempt at copying the pagan mystery religions. This claim is made in spite of clear evidence that many of these pagan mystery religions were copycats of Christianity, or contain legends that are as far removed from Christianity as modern humans are removed from the flea.

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Originally Posted by xjw4evr

Because there is so much scholarship out there that demonstrates, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Christianity did not "evolve" out of a vacuum, but was developed from the kernels of Jewish religious thought found in the Old Testamant and inter-Testamental writings (much on which were discovered at the Dead Sea).



Because most liberals (I speak of liberal Christian theologians) are stuck in the arguments of the 19th century Germans liberal theologians. These theologians made ***ertions that have been refuted with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (as mentioned above). Further, liberal Christians bring to the table the presupposition that Christianity was not a "child" of Judaism, but was some sort of cheap attempt at copying the pagan mystery religions. This claim is made in spite of clear evidence that many of these pagan mystery religions were copycats of Christianity, or contain legends that are as far removed from Christianity as modern humans are removed from the flea.

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I've been participating on religious discussion boards for a while and I don't recall anyone ever saying that Christianity evolved from a vacuum.
I think anyone familiar with Christianity knows that Jesus was, purportedly, Jewish.
I think many have noticed the simularities between Christianity and other, more ancient religions.
I'm not sure how you conclude from this that these folks are uneducated or liberals.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

I've been participating on religious discussion boards for a while and I don't recall anyone ever saying that Christianity evolved from a vacuum.

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Is it possible that you and I run in different crowds?

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Originally Posted by GiGi

I think anyone familiar with Christianity knows that Jesus was, purportedly, Jewish.

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Really. In the crowds I deal with there are people that deny Jesus ever existed.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

I think many have noticed the simularities between Christianity and other, more ancient religions.

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Sadly, I have spoken with many people that seem to believe that just because there are similarities, that Christianity ripped these off those religions.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

I'm not sure how you conclude from this that these folks are uneducated or liberals.

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It's called 17 years of evangelism and apologetic work. I forgot something even more important...people that believe as you stated, are NOT Christians either.

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Originally Posted by xjw4evr

Is it possible that you and I run in different crowds?



Really. In the crowds I deal with there are people that deny Jesus ever existed.



Sadly, I have spoken with many people that seem to believe that just because there are similarities, that Christianity ripped these off those religions.



It's called 17 years of evangelism and apologetic work. I forgot something even more important...people that believe as you stated, are NOT Christians either.

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I've noticed a tendency in religious people, not just Christians, to dismiss the questions and concerns of others.
Uneducated, liberal, and NOT Christians either? Could it be that you have that tendency?

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Originally Posted by GiGi

I've noticed a tendency in religious people, not just Christians, to dismiss the questions and concerns of others.
Uneducated, liberal, and NOT Christians either? Could it be that you have that tendency?

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That would be an incorrect ***umption on your part.

I have noticed the tendency of atheists, agnostics and skeptics to dismiss the questions of others as being uneducated, narrow-minded, and bigoted.

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Originally Posted by xjw4evr

I have noticed the tendency of atheists, agnostics and skeptics to dismiss the questions of others as being uneducated, narrow-minded, and bigoted.

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Do you have questions?

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Do you have questions?

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Are you ***erting that you are in a position to answer any questions I may have?

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Originally Posted by xjw4evr

Are you ***erting that you are in a position to answer any questions I may have?

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One thing is for sure, I won't dismiss you as uneducated, narrow-minded, or bigoted, unless you really are.

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Originally Posted by TRiG

You are clearly very very confused.

Therefore pagans and JWs believe in many gods.

Just look at the parallelisms.

TRiG.:)

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Yours simply don't follow.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Are Christians also pagans?

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How so?

Christians believe in one God.

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Originally Posted by TRiG

Pagans believe in many Gods.
Witnesses believe in many Gods.
Therefore, Witnesses are Pagans.

...

Cows are mammals.
Goats are mammals.
Therefore, goats are cows.

TRiG.:rolleyes:

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You have it backward
The believe in many gods is Pagan
Jw's believe in many gods
Jw's are therefore pagan

mammals are cows
mammals are goats
there are many differnt animals that are mammals..

IHS jim

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Originally Posted by James Banta

You have it backward
The believe in many gods is Pagan
Jw's believe in many gods
Jw's are therefore pagan

mammals are cows
mammals are goats
there are many differnt animals that are mammals..

IHS jim

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Depends on your definition of "pagan".

I think TRiG was saying that to his understanding, belief in multiple gods is a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement to make one a pagan. You are saying that it is both necessary and sufficient.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Are Christians also pagans?

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We would be if we believed in many Gods.. But unlike the JW or the Mormons we don't see Jesus as a created being. Nor do we see Him as a separate God from the Father or the Holy Spirit.. This confused me when I first came out of mormonism and God in his grace gave me and understanding through geometric space..

The three dimensions being infinite must logically contains all points of space. Yet Hight is not Width, and neither are either of them Length.. Yet these three dimensions make up one infinite space.. I don't know if you can see the ****ogy but to my small brain it is a wonderful picture of the oneness of God in the weak mind of Jim.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by asdf

Depends on your definition of "pagan".

I think TRiG was saying that to his understanding, belief in multiple gods is a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement to make one a pagan. You are saying that it is both necessary and sufficient.

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The worship of any God other than YHWH makes a person an unbeliever in the God of the Bible and therefore a Pagan.. That is the only definition that makes sense Biblically.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by James Banta

The worship of any God other than YHWH makes a person an unbeliever in the God of the Bible and therefore a Pagan.. That is the only definition that makes sense Biblically.. IHS jim

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Like many words, 'pagan' has more than one meaning. There is no universally accepted definition of 'christian' by christians themselves.

James,

Could you please tell me which definition of the word pagan you're using.

TRiG.:)

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Like many words, 'pagan' has more than one meaning. There is no universally accepted definition of 'Christian' by christians themselves.

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We don't agree.. I say a pagan is anyone that rejects YHWH as the one and only God.. A Christian is a person who accept Jesus as YHWH.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by TRiG

James,

Could you please tell me which definition of the word pagan you're using.

TRiG.:)

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Done and done go read it.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by James Banta

We don't agree.. I say a pagan is anyone that rejects YHWH as the one and only God.. A Christian is a person who accept Jesus as YHWH.. IHS jim

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"We"? The fact is, there is no universally accepted definition of the word, even among those that fit your definition of "christian" - another word without a universally accepted definition.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

"We"? The fact is, there is no universally accepted definition of the word, even among those that fit your definition of "christian" - another word without a universally accepted definition.

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There is in the Church.. But you are right it was a name ***igned to disciples of JESUS by the Roman polytheists.. Today it has become a standard for those who recognize Jesus as God, Savior and King of the world.. IHS jim

The Jehovah's Witness cult is Freemasonic and pagan. The ancient heretic Arias' views of Jesus came from pagan concepts, not the biblical data. Charles Russell was a pagan and occultic Freemason, just like Joe Smith.

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Originally Posted by GiGi

Like many words, 'pagan' has more than one meaning. There is no universally accepted definition of 'christian' by christians themselves.

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actually, there is the problem s everyone wants to go to heaven so they consider themselves Christian when they are not